RIP Dragonknight Wings

Datthaw

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

I really think you only look at stamblades, who synergize cloak very well with medium armor passives to a point it seems OP. Combine that with the very strong suprise attack, or the 2-handed skill execute, or people spamming bow from a distance and dodge roll your attacks and with bow equipped and cloak and they are gone.

But we are talking about magblade. You know, the little cockroaches you stomp under your take-flight boots and which you /laugh at when they try cast cripple and swallow soul which get reflected. And then you tell them, while rubbing your hands, that they should slot counters to wings like concealed weapon so you can stomp under your take-flight boots or fore-pulse so they can do minimal damage to you.

And what buffs save the magNB then? Cloak to get away while casting fossilize or drinking detectpotion? Shadow image, which bugs out with 1 inch floot height difference? Any shield with 4k damage abosorption equivalent to a light attack?

Really, i don't want nerfs.... i want them to help magblade. Make cripple unreflectable and give them some other tools to aid them. But nope... we also get another nerf on top of that.

Totally agreed, as someone that doesnt want wings to loose reflect its nice to actually see People in here that realized that changing wings helps magblade only in exactly one Situation: Fighting a mdk. And absolutely Nothing else. Magblade Needs help, nerfing/changing one counter is not the help magblade Needs.
Yes Fighting against wings is frustrating if you are a magblade, but if wings get changed you will still be left with a weak class that took a number of nerfs that were not needed in PvP because they were too strong in PvE. All this will do is make you think that you are stronger when in reality you are not. And running into one warden will Show you that very handily. Then we will have the next outcry on our Hands.
Really, what do magblades think is the better solution: Nerf every counter one at a time and still be left with a class that is weak?
Or help magblade in a way that gives them ways to Play around counters, give them Options, better healing or defense, less avoidable burst with that insanely Long time between bow Shooting and bow hitting, something that makes them be strong even when faced with something that counters part of their build. Not all class abilities being reflectable. Anything that helps magblade be stronger and not perceived Solutions that make some think it helps your class Overall when it does not.

The better solution to me is something I have said for months and it always gets ignored. You want to help magnb, give refreshing path snare removal for youself, (and for utility maybe 1 other? Idk multiple targets is debateable) and turn dark cloak into a burst heal, it would then be on par with the dk heal atleast, the 3s hot is a terrible idea.

Edit, I'm a 3 year eso magnb main, never been afraid to say I'm average but I have a good concept of the game, thsee changes would open up a lot of build options. Oh ueah and remove that *** cast time delay from mercy, wtf is that

TheYKcid

likecats wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

Wings+block.... won't that then be 125% damage reduction for projectiles?

I think we need to know the full list of changes before we can know if it is to much of a nerf or not.

True but I bet anything NB doesn't lose cloak because so if they don't lose their ability to gank undetected why should we lose our only thing to help against ranged users especially if we don't get mobility. Catching people as a dk is already hard.

You literally have a gap closer that also increases your movement speed.

For those of you that think out gap closer (22m range) will help us get to a target that can hit us from 28m- you probably missed the math somewhere.

Oh! And let’s not forget that DKs can be pewpewed from a wall or rock within 28m... and chains won’t pull us too you. “Target is too high/low.”

Oh- and that major expetition is useless if you can hit anyone with your chains.

Sounds like ranged builds are at a clear advantage.

Just use force pulse.

You might have to give up your main spammable, which also heals you, and without it you might not be able to survive, but just use force pulse.

It's totally not unreasonable to tell a melee build to use force pulse, therefore just use force pulse. Everyone has to make sacrifices. I'm totally not going to admit that a total playstyle shift is an unreasonable sacrifice for anyone to make.

Let's not even go in the loss of class identity by using force pulse, but suck it up and just use force pulse.

Spamming force pulse without any other skills will also not kill any competent player, but who cares right? Just use force pulse.

Counters exist bro, just use force pulse.

Surely the DK lobby will have no issues with this reasoning. After all, it's what they've been telling everyone else for 4 years. It's totally not a flimsy excuse with no chance of ever working in a realistic situation against anyone with half a brain, nuh-uh!

Sanguinor2

TheYKcid wrote: »

Surely the DK lobby will have no issues with this reasoning. After all, it's what they've been telling everyone else for 4 years. It's totally not a flimsy excuse with no chance of ever working in a realistic situation against anyone with half a brain, nuh-uh!

Surely the NB Lobby will have no issue admitting that wings is not the core of magblade issues but simply Highlights them? Or do you really believe that wings is the reason for all Problems that magblades have?

The issues magblades have are a bunch of direct nerfs to target their years of superiority in pve dps (ranged) and a bunch of indirect nerfs (healing ward Comes to mind), meta changes affecting them negatively (hello permaroot meta) and peculiar ability design (ranged class, that has no ranged ability that goes through ranged defenses, also shimmering was added rather recently compared to wings, so zos apparently doesnt see an issue in completely negating ranged Damage with one ability, not a stance I agree with but that is besides the Point) and the few Options they have to Play around wings or shimmering are either too weak on their own (force pulse), still rely on ranged abilities even when being melee (bow proc, cripple, impale) and magblades dont have the durability to go head to head with melee classes (stand your Ground [lul] dk or any stam build).

Now will These issues be solved if the wings Change goes through?

Spoiler: no they wont. Then you will discover that shimmering also negates all your Damage (even force pulse) except for the dot of cripple and quite frankly force pulse spam will be better in killing someone than cripple´s dot alone.
After you campaigned against shimmering all the while still not realizing your real issues you might be Angry that ball of Lightning can absorb an Unlimited amount of mag projectiles for the time its up, that absorb magic exists and that spell wall counters you too hard.
And after campaigning against cloak since that ability not only counters projectiles by forcing them to miss but in Addition makes the dots you land irrelevant you might be happy and think, yes no more ranged counters.
And then you will realize that those abilities werent actually the big issue, you will still die as soon as you get locked down or caught by melee builds and you will still get outperformed by sorcs in range, you will still have less Group Utility than most other classes you will still get permarooted without an answer to that.
And then you might think: oh well magblades Problems were actually more than those select few abilities, who wouldve guessed? Ranged counters getting deleted didnt actually magically fix magblade issues, the burst is still delayed, the healing still lacks, magblade still wont have any Options except playing ranged and not being very good at it compared to sorc, melee magblade will still be dead.

What will you do at that Point? Campaign for all other classes to get tossed?

Or will you realize the true issues your class has and want those to be addressed?

Heimpai

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

TheYKcid wrote: »

Surely the DK lobby will have no issues with this reasoning. After all, it's what they've been telling everyone else for 4 years. It's totally not a flimsy excuse with no chance of ever working in a realistic situation against anyone with half a brain, nuh-uh!

Surely the NB Lobby will have no issue admitting that wings is not the core of magblade issues but simply Highlights them? Or do you really believe that wings is the reason for all Problems that magblades have?

The issues magblades have are a bunch of direct nerfs to target their years of superiority in pve dps (ranged) and a bunch of indirect nerfs (healing ward Comes to mind), meta changes affecting them negatively (hello permaroot meta) and peculiar ability design (ranged class, that has no ranged ability that goes through ranged defenses, also shimmering was added rather recently compared to wings, so zos apparently doesnt see an issue in completely negating ranged Damage with one ability, not a stance I agree with but that is besides the Point) and the few Options they have to Play around wings or shimmering are either too weak on their own (force pulse), still rely on ranged abilities even when being melee (bow proc, cripple, impale) and magblades dont have the durability to go head to head with melee classes (stand your Ground [lul] dk or any stam build).

Now will These issues be solved if the wings Change goes through?

Spoiler: no they wont. Then you will discover that shimmering also negates all your Damage (even force pulse) except for the dot of cripple and quite frankly force pulse spam will be better in killing someone than cripple´s dot alone.
After you campaigned against shimmering all the while still not realizing your real issues you might be Angry that ball of Lightning can absorb an Unlimited amount of mag projectiles for the time its up, that absorb magic exists and that spell wall counters you too hard.
And after campaigning against cloak since that ability not only counters projectiles by forcing them to miss but in Addition makes the dots you land irrelevant you might be happy and think, yes no more ranged counters.
And then you will realize that those abilities werent actually the big issue, you will still die as soon as you get locked down or caught by melee builds and you will still get outperformed by sorcs in range, you will still have less Group Utility than most other classes you will still get permarooted without an answer to that.
And then you might think: oh well magblades Problems were actually more than those select few abilities, who wouldve guessed? Ranged counters getting deleted didnt actually magically fix magblade issues, the burst is still delayed, the healing still lacks, magblade still wont have any Options except playing ranged and not being very good at it compared to sorc, melee magblade will still be dead.

What will you do at that Point? Campaign for all other classes to get tossed?

Or will you realize the true issues your class has and want those to be addressed?

We’ve been asking for a while now but no one seemed to care till the wing nerf

Honestly we’re headed towards snipe meta, just what we need in this laggy mess

Walks_With_Kagouti

My thoughts on it.

If the standard morph is what is rumored.
Reflective Scale(also it's probably going to need a name change since it's no longer reflecting): For 6 seconds reduces all ranged projectiles by 50%

Reflective Plate: The 50% damage that would have been received is reflected back to the enemy

Other morph: Increases the cost by x but heals you for the x% you absorbed

Just a thought

Sanguinor2

Walks_With_Kagouti wrote: »

My thoughts on it.

If the standard morph is what is rumored.
Reflective Scale(also it's probably going to need a name change since it's no longer reflecting): For 6 seconds reduces all ranged projectiles by 50%

Reflective Plate: The 50% damage that would have been received is reflected back to the enemy

Other morph: Increases the cost by x but heals you for the x% you absorbed

Just a thought

Towards Reflective Plate: If one of our last pieces of class identity gets tossed can we pls not loose the snare immunity, one of the few good Things Happening to dk since 1.5?
Towards Dragonfirescales (the Name you were Looking for): Will very likely be either too strong or very weak depending on the values.

StShoot

exeeter702 wrote: »

The new wings is a net buff to dk damage mitigation when outnumbered. They are now garunteed 6 seconds of 50 percent projectile damage reduction. This protects their hp far more than the current wings does when you have 2 or more targets on you since in that 6 second period you are free to cast other methods of defensive without having to commit every other GCD to refreshing wings since the projectile count is getting consumed by light attacks.

This will help dks by letting them commit magicka to offense while benefiting from the buff or commit magicka to defend while the buff is active. The nerd in the back spamming snipe will have to be dealt with, and like everyone else, you have options to close that distance or otherwise deal with it.

And not to mention everyone here conveniently ignoring the other morph that is ostensibly going to have a projectile that fires at the attacker every time you are hit with a projectile. If I were a betting man i would posit one morph is the fireball reflection and the other is snare removal while both are 50 percent projectile damage reduction.

There is a reason why everyone igonres the other morph, dks dont need another *** FoO.
If the wings loose there snare removal everyone will drop it for mistform, you just can add this morph to the veeeeeryyy long list of dead/unusable class morphs that are curently in the game

its true that the new wings will protect as for a flat value that seems to be higher, the old wings were prety much a gamble in 1 v X do they reflect those 16k snipes or do they reflect LA, so if you managed to reflect 4 snipes the defensive value was higher than with the new one. But thankfully there will never be a situation where 4 snipers shooting at you since sniping is dead in cyrodiil... right ? also like other ppl allready stated, we have no toolkit to close the distance. The sniper can litary stand on a rock and chains wont work, and we cant waste dragonleap on a ranged sniper since it is very easy to avoid (just sprint 2 m and you are fine)and we need our ulty for sustain.

also you wont spare any magica with the new wings, you wil recast them every 3-4 seconds to get rid of snares, also more debuffs from the abilitys and la + poison/enchantment will hit you so you wont spend those magica offensive, instead you have to use it for shields/ healing