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RIP Dragonknight Wings
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Kidgangster101✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sanguinor2 wrote: »
You literally have a gap closer that also increases your movement speed.
And you have multiple class abilities that ignore wings and can endlessly kite Evil wing Spammers. Just because something exists in the class skill tree doesnt mean its good and/or People have bar space for it.
I have started using chains to lock down healers that are far away or other ranged Targets for smallscale pvp and let me tell you dropping stuff like engulfing or ele drain for it feels really really bad.
Not to Mention that chains still sometimes dont work depending on altitude of the target and sometimes just doesnt pull you to them when your target dodges or cloaks despite chains being "undodgeable".
I know finding space on your bar is hard for a mdk, and it is for some other classes too. I'm simply saying that you have options for mobility, so complaining that you have none is simply untrue. If you want more sustain and damage, then you forgo some mobility, if you want mobility then you lose out on some damage or sustain. It's just the way this game works - you can't have your cake and eat it too.
And yes, I'm aware chains is buggy. That doesn't mean it's a bad skill, it just needs to be fixed.
Chains Grant cc immunity so if I pull in they can still escape. It works great in big group play where my group will pounce the person but if I'm alone the person now knows I can't cc then and starts to go ham maybe cc me. And this move is no different then silver leash.
Let's talk about that increased movement speed. So if I'm trying to run you mean I need to use a move to pull someone close to me to get a speed buff? Lol sorcs and major expedition and stread, NB can escape through cloak, warden gas bird of prey, so yeah we lack mobility.
Another thing that makes chains situational is the fact that along with our wing Nerf all those NB spamming snipe from 28m away can watch us move to them as they keep walking back as we try to close the gap because chains isn't 28m. So now I'm taking huge damage and will be almost dead by the time I get him in chain range, but my movement speed from chains was so good and worth me slotting right?2 -
wheem_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Huh, that sounds like it'll still be fairly overpowered against ranged builds. I mean I guess you won't blow yourself up or CC yourself anymore, but unless the cost is getting a huge increase, 50% damage mitigation (on top of other sources of mitigation) against all projectiles is massive...that's significantly more defense than Major Protection, and will presumably stack with it.Nerftheforums wrote: »The skill will certainly be more boring, but have you ever tried to play against wings with a ranged build? Let me tell you, if the dk has half a working brain, it's impossible. Literally. You are a parse dummy and nothing more (especially magnbs).
Wings will definitely not be useless, 50% damage mitigation is huge, they will simply allow you to play against them. And don't forget that you will have an actual 6s uptime and not only 4 projectiles.6 -
coplannb16_ESO✭✭✭✭Nerftheforums wrote: »The skill will certainly be more boring, but have you ever tried to play against wings with a ranged build?
have you ever played a mdk versus a ranged build without wings? -_- if embers and/or lash had 28m range I'd be cool without it.
max level: mDK, stamBlade, stamSorc, magPlar, mDen, stamDen, magBlade, stamCro
ESO+
# of mules: 4 (FULL)
maxed bank: FULL -_-
Stop the grind! Get rid of stupid events and daily-quest gallore. Get rid of "have a chance of 1 in a million to get a piece of 1 in 30 to get a stupid motif or pet... wtf..."
And at this point just remove all classes and have everyone choose their set of skills. then balance accordingly to skills always used vs. skills never used.1 -
Nerftheforums✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Huh, that sounds like it'll still be fairly overpowered against ranged builds. I mean I guess you won't blow yourself up or CC yourself anymore, but unless the cost is getting a huge increase, 50% damage mitigation (on top of other sources of mitigation) against all projectiles is massive...that's significantly more defense than Major Protection, and will presumably stack with it.Nerftheforums wrote: »The skill will certainly be more boring, but have you ever tried to play against wings with a ranged build? Let me tell you, if the dk has half a working brain, it's impossible. Literally. You are a parse dummy and nothing more (especially magnbs).
Wings will definitely not be useless, 50% damage mitigation is huge, they will simply allow you to play against them. And don't forget that you will have an actual 6s uptime and not only 4 projectiles.
Yep, precisely, and this is why all this whining makes no sense to me. And inb4 "gnegnegne but cloak/shimmering/Shields", 2 of these 3 have actual counterplay. You can pull someone out of cloak in hundred of ways, and Shields take all sort of damage, normally mitigated. Wings? 0 counterplay except spamming light attacks and taking 2/3k damage from them yourself. In the magnb case, your heals and damage are entirely set to 0. In magsorc case, you simply can't kill a competent wing dk.
People complain about wings not being fun anymore but forget to look and all those ranged classes who never had fun against dks.7 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The problem with chains as a gap close (not the pull) is it does the chain animation still before you start to move. It needs speed up.
I'd still use wings for the defense there and brief root snare immunity but I actually think going 50% is still too much for a very specific situation. Would almost rather it just go lesser projectile reduction but with minor protection.1 -
Gretzel✭✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Kidgangster101 wrote: »Knootewoot wrote: »Wings+block.... won't that then be 125% damage reduction for projectiles?
I think we need to know the full list of changes before we can know if it is to much of a nerf or not.
True but I bet anything NB doesn't lose cloak because so if they don't lose their ability to gank undetected why should we lose our only thing to help against ranged users especially if we don't get mobility. Catching people as a dk is already hard.
Well, if they put a bit of work in Grip/Chains people might start to not ignore this skill.
You know how much people love using silver leash in PvP?
They should. I'm a brand new player and I got leashed into an entire team yesterday as a sorc healer in capture the flag and all it did was add about 3 extra seconds before I captured their skull. These were 50 bgs and a bunch of 810s.Edited by Gretzel on April 2, 2019 12:33PMSorc dps / DK tank / Templar healer - Xbox NA - Black Marsh Legion - cp 2700 -
Sanguinor2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Nerftheforums wrote: »The skill will certainly be more boring, but have you ever tried to play against wings with a ranged build? Let me tell you, if the dk has half a working brain, it's impossible. Literally. You are a parse dummy and nothing more (especially magnbs).
Wings will definitely not be useless, 50% damage mitigation is huge, they will simply allow you to play against them. And don't forget that you will have an actual 6s uptime and not only 4 projectiles.
I have and the only Problem I had was with magblade. And that simply was because I was running a full ranged build so I could accept that the abilities that counter ranged skills will counter me. The Things that bug me About this Change is that even more off dks class uniqeness will be gone and I will be drowning in dots and debuffs while probably still making ranged People spam nerf Posts.
Also Edit: In the current meta you wont recast wings every 6 seconds but rather still Need to use it more often to retain the snare immunity, but depending on other changes for the patch this complaint might not have much weigt, we shall see.Edited by Sanguinor2 on April 2, 2019 12:50PMPoliteness is respecting others.
Courage is doing what is fair.
Modesty is speaking of oneself without vanity.
Self control is keeping calm even when anger rises.
Sincerity is expressing oneself without concealing ones thoughts.
Honor is keeping ones word.0 -
Solariken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Sanguinor2 wrote: »
Not referring to 100% projectile avoidance (which is clearly OP in BGs), I was referring to the reflect-like mechanic where I shoot you and you shoot something back at me. The flavor of that mechanic was preserved via DFS.1 -
Kidgangster101✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nerftheforums wrote: »
Huh, that sounds like it'll still be fairly overpowered against ranged builds. I mean I guess you won't blow yourself up or CC yourself anymore, but unless the cost is getting a huge increase, 50% damage mitigation (on top of other sources of mitigation) against all projectiles is massive...that's significantly more defense than Major Protection, and will presumably stack with it.Nerftheforums wrote: »The skill will certainly be more boring, but have you ever tried to play against wings with a ranged build? Let me tell you, if the dk has half a working brain, it's impossible. Literally. You are a parse dummy and nothing more (especially magnbs).
Wings will definitely not be useless, 50% damage mitigation is huge, they will simply allow you to play against them. And don't forget that you will have an actual 6s uptime and not only 4 projectiles.
Yep, precisely, and this is why all this whining makes no sense to me. And inb4 "gnegnegne but cloak/shimmering/Shields", 2 of these 3 have actual counterplay. You can pull someone out of cloak in hundred of ways, and Shields take all sort of damage, normally mitigated. Wings? 0 counterplay except spamming light attacks and taking 2/3k damage from them yourself. In the magnb case, your heals and damage are entirely set to 0. In magsorc case, you simply can't kill a competent wing dk.
People complain about wings not being fun anymore but forget to look and all those ranged classes who never had fun against dks.
Bro if you only have ranged moves on your loadouts (unless you are a mag NB then again I have said it in every post they should be fixed on their own to not have all their moves reflectable and to get their siphoning identity back) then it is your own fault when you die to wings. Every class that uses a bow should have melle options as well. A lot of people complain they can't be bow/bow builds and it's hurting their gameplay because they get murdered by wings.
Well I can say the same thing about nbs cloak tbh. I can't play "my way" because I have to specifically run moves I have 0 interest in running to counter cloak. Cloak better lose it's invisible mechanic so I don't have to have glitchy moves that don't always work or expensive moves like caltrops to stop a NB anymore so I can "play my way"0 -
Sanguinor2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Taste the dk tears LOL. Welcome to the nerf train ALL ABOARD!
Wanna know something funny? There is way more nbs crying over loosing an 8% dmg buff ,which you can get from sets and skills, that actually isnt an 8% dmg buff because off how this games calculations work than there is dks crying about loosing one of their last class defining skills.Edited by Sanguinor2 on April 2, 2019 2:44PMPoliteness is respecting others.
Courage is doing what is fair.
Modesty is speaking of oneself without vanity.
Self control is keeping calm even when anger rises.
Sincerity is expressing oneself without concealing ones thoughts.
Honor is keeping ones word.1 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Nerftheforums wrote: »The skill will certainly be more boring, but have you ever tried to play against wings with a ranged build? Let me tell you, if the dk has half a working brain, it's impossible. Literally. You are a parse dummy and nothing more (especially magnbs).
Wings will definitely not be useless, 50% damage mitigation is huge, they will simply allow you to play against them. And don't forget that you will have an actual 6s uptime and not only 4 projectiles.
The only problem I see with this change is that Dks will be kited to death unless they build towards mag regen, then it will be the most boring fight ever.
The good news are that wings + shields will be an option for ranged DKs to join the pew pew.
And that's how you turn a MMORPG into a FPS dear kids.Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique0 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Kidgangster101 wrote: »Sanguinor2 wrote: »
You literally have a gap closer that also increases your movement speed.
And you have multiple class abilities that ignore wings and can endlessly kite Evil wing Spammers. Just because something exists in the class skill tree doesnt mean its good and/or People have bar space for it.
I have started using chains to lock down healers that are far away or other ranged Targets for smallscale pvp and let me tell you dropping stuff like engulfing or ele drain for it feels really really bad.
Not to Mention that chains still sometimes dont work depending on altitude of the target and sometimes just doesnt pull you to them when your target dodges or cloaks despite chains being "undodgeable".
I know finding space on your bar is hard for a mdk, and it is for some other classes too. I'm simply saying that you have options for mobility, so complaining that you have none is simply untrue. If you want more sustain and damage, then you forgo some mobility, if you want mobility then you lose out on some damage or sustain. It's just the way this game works - you can't have your cake and eat it too.
And yes, I'm aware chains is buggy. That doesn't mean it's a bad skill, it just needs to be fixed.
Chains Grant cc immunity so if I pull in they can still escape. It works great in big group play where my group will pounce the person but if I'm alone the person now knows I can't cc then and starts to go ham maybe cc me. And this move is no different then silver leash.
Let's talk about that increased movement speed. So if I'm trying to run you mean I need to use a move to pull someone close to me to get a speed buff? Lol sorcs and major expedition and stread, NB can escape through cloak, warden gas bird of prey, so yeah we lack mobility.
Another thing that makes chains situational is the fact that along with our wing Nerf all those NB spamming snipe from 28m away can watch us move to them as they keep walking back as we try to close the gap because chains isn't 28m. So now I'm taking huge damage and will be almost dead by the time I get him in chain range, but my movement speed from chains was so good and worth me slotting right?
Last time I had some intention to play, I started using chains in combination with mages guild rune, elemental blockade and cinder storm. In fact the combo is interesting at the point you end up not using whip. Ferocious is a great skill to use as execute, but the ulti generation is quite slow to make it your execute. And Skoria becomes an obligation.Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique0 -
thankyourat✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sanguinor2 wrote: »Taste the dk tears LOL. Welcome to the nerf train ALL ABOARD!
Wanna know something funny? There is way more nbs crying over loosing an 8% dmg buff ,which you can get from sets and skills, that actually isnt an 8% dmg buff because off how this games calculations work than there is dks crying about loosing one of their last class defining skills.
I believe that's because mag dk is a really good class and magblade is really bad. When you nerf a bad class there will usually be a lot of complaining1 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭thankyourat wrote: »Sanguinor2 wrote: »Taste the dk tears LOL. Welcome to the nerf train ALL ABOARD!
Wanna know something funny? There is way more nbs crying over loosing an 8% dmg buff ,which you can get from sets and skills, that actually isnt an 8% dmg buff because off how this games calculations work than there is dks crying about loosing one of their last class defining skills.
I believe that's because mag dk is a really good class and magblade is really bad. When you nerf a bad class there will usually be a lot of complaining
mdK is not so far away from Mageblade. I thin they are in similar positions. To deal with both of them you need to use special countersSarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique1 -
Datthaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sanguinor2 wrote: »Taste the dk tears LOL. Welcome to the nerf train ALL ABOARD!
Wanna know something funny? There is way more nbs crying over loosing an 8% dmg buff ,which you can get from sets and skills, that actually isnt an 8% dmg buff because off how this games calculations work than there is dks crying about loosing one of their last class defining skills.
It is still an 8% buff though doesn't matter if they do it multiplicative instead of addition. Plus it's a bit of a strawman..
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Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭juhislihis19 wrote: »Kidgangster101 wrote: »Knootewoot wrote: »Wings+block.... won't that then be 125% damage reduction for projectiles?
I think we need to know the full list of changes before we can know if it is to much of a nerf or not.
True but I bet anything NB doesn't lose cloak because so if they don't lose their ability to gank undetected why should we lose our only thing to help against ranged users especially if we don't get mobility. Catching people as a dk is already hard.
You literally have a gap closer that also increases your movement speed.
The chain skill is useless when Silver Leash's around. It does the same thing with decent damage, more weapon damage and instead of Expedition, they reduce enemy movement. Oh and it also stuns.
So yeah, chains do exist but it's a terrible skill around and no one in their right mind would pick it ahead of Silver. Kind of like DK's have Major Endurance available, but it's hidden inside a terrible heal no one uses in PVP.
Dunno, maybe the ones who don't run a 30k+ stam pool on their Mag DK?0 -
DreadDaedroth✭✭✭✭✭
✭This so called ''change'' is the dullest, sumb most inimaginative thing I've ever read. Who could propose it?
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Rhaegar75✭✭✭✭✭can I just check...where is this information coming from? Official sources? April fools? rumours?
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Jimmy_The_Fixer✭✭✭✭✭Seems like a positive change, will still make DKs a poor target for ranged attacks.
It’s a bit ridiculous to look at a 50% resistance to ranged damage and think to yourself “Oh No! I’ll be helpless against bows!”Edited by Jimmy_The_Fixer on April 2, 2019 5:57PM7 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Knootewoot wrote: »Wings+block.... won't that then be 125% damage reduction for projectiles?
I think we need to know the full list of changes before we can know if it is to much of a nerf or not.
thats not how mitigation works.0 -
katorga✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I don't play a DK, and hate having to work around a DK who knows how to use them as a Sorc, but this is a terrible change. Wings has been in the game since Day One, and ranged characters have been killing DK's all that time. 6 months from now, players will be whining that 50% damage reduction on the limited number of reflect-able skills is just too OP.
At some point the classes become bland rehashes of each other, and game play gets too easy to be fun.2 -
kaithuzar✭✭✭✭✭
✭What I seriously would like to know is how come magblade has an entire tree called “siphoning” & yet nothing in there is as effective as “burning embers”....
...Member of:
Fantasia - osh kosh b-josh
Just Chill - Crown's house
GoldCloaks - Durruthy test server penga
Small Meme Guild - Mano's house
Former member of:
Legend - Siffer fan boy club
TKO (tamriel knight's order) - free bks
Deviance - Leonard's senche tiger
Purple - hamNchz is my hero
Eight Divines - myrlifax stop playing final fantasy
WKB (we kill bosses) - turd where you go?
Arcance Council - Klytz Kommander
World Boss - Mike & Chewy gone EP
M12 (majestic twelve) - cult of the loli zerg3 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Depends on the rest of the balance changes. Beside that, it's always difficult to balance such situational "all or nothing " Skills like Wings or cloak. Just wondering if they will change shimmering as well.
Except cloak will probably stay the same forever , at this rate.0 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Nerftheforums wrote: »The skill will certainly be more boring, but have you ever tried to play against wings with a ranged build? Let me tell you, if the dk has half a working brain, it's impossible. Literally. You are a parse dummy and nothing more (especially magnbs).
Wings will definitely not be useless, 50% damage mitigation is huge, they will simply allow you to play against them. And don't forget that you will have an actual 6s uptime and not only 4 projectiles.
Nightblades always had the option to walk away from a Dk fight, and DK had the tools neccessary to keep them at bay. Now the rules are chaned. But I like how this Wings change is defended by magblades more than Dk mains. I wonder how big of a riot there would be if the same treatment was applied to cloak.
Its a unique piece of class identity gone forever. Just like old inferno, it will be gone forever and you'll be left with a skill once powerful, now boring and bland.Edited by Ragnarock41 on April 2, 2019 8:12PM0 -
mursie✭✭✭✭✭well the way i see it:
1. DK's won't be able to auto avoid ranged dmg anymore. should help pet sorcs and magblades
2. magblades dmg is going to get further nerfed - should help pet sorcs and dk's
3. steel tornado is going to get nerfed - should help pet sorcs, dk's and magblades
4. pet sorcs are really strong - sounds like they're getting stronger indirectly
thank god for necromancers. we'll need them to combat these pet sorc overlords. of course, joke is on all of us. we're actually beta testing necro's right now... via pet sorcs... we just don't know it.
WHAAAAAAAAA????!!???
mind blown3
