RIP Dragonknight Wings

LoveForElderScrolls

Remember those times that Dragonknights killed snipers with their own snipe? Next patch Dragonknights can't do that anymore and instead, wings will reduce the damage of the incoming projectiles by 50% which will make it a boring skill. Do you think Dragonknights will be fun to play next patch?

Chilly-McFreeze

Depends on the rest of the balance changes. Beside that, it's always difficult to balance such situational "all or nothing " Skills like Wings or cloak. Just wondering if they will change shimmering as well.

coplannb16_ESO

depends how cost, duration and secondary effects turn out to be. If its just 6 seconds 50% damage reduction for projectiles they can as well remove the skill because, why bother? could as well just block (75% damage reduction) or shield or dodge.

Knootewoot

Wings+block.... won't that then be 125% damage reduction for projectiles?

I think we need to know the full list of changes before we can know if it is to much of a nerf or not.

Kidgangster101

Knootewoot wrote: »

Wings+block.... won't that then be 125% damage reduction for projectiles?

I think we need to know the full list of changes before we can know if it is to much of a nerf or not.

True but I bet anything NB doesn't lose cloak because so if they don't lose their ability to gank undetected why should we lose our only thing to help against ranged users especially if we don't get mobility. Catching people as a dk is already hard.

Checkmath

Knootewoot wrote: »

Wings+block.... won't that then be 125% damage reduction for projectiles?

I think we need to know the full list of changes before we can know if it is to much of a nerf or not.

I think you messed up some numbers. You can not just add 50% of wings plus the mitigation numbers of block.

If you get normally hit by a 10k snipe and you got a 50% mitigation from whatever source you have, then ou will get hit by 5k snipe. If you also have wings active, then wings will reduce the damage from snipe first by 50% down to 5k and then will be reduced by the other 50% mitigation down to 2.5k. So two times 50% mitigation is not 100%, but 75%. Otherwise people would take zero damage in mistform

Heimpai

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

Wings+block.... won't that then be 125% damage reduction for projectiles?

I think we need to know the full list of changes before we can know if it is to much of a nerf or not.

True but I bet anything NB doesn't lose cloak because so if they don't lose their ability to gank undetected why should we lose our only thing to help against ranged users especially if we don't get mobility. Catching people as a dk is already hard.

Not a single magblade skill works on wings..get close and use concealed, except most people aren’t stupid enough to fall for that trap

Magblade will also be losing minor berserk

S2W is losing it’s execute, dk‘s aren’t the only ones being nerfed

Chilly-McFreeze

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

Wings+block.... won't that then be 125% damage reduction for projectiles?

I think we need to know the full list of changes before we can know if it is to much of a nerf or not.

True but I bet anything NB doesn't lose cloak because so if they don't lose their ability to gank undetected why should we lose our only thing to help against ranged users especially if we don't get mobility. Catching people as a dk is already hard.

Well, if they put a bit of work in Grip/Chains people might start to not ignore this skill.

Checkmath

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

Wings+block.... won't that then be 125% damage reduction for projectiles?

I think we need to know the full list of changes before we can know if it is to much of a nerf or not.

True but I bet anything NB doesn't lose cloak because so if they don't lose their ability to gank undetected why should we lose our only thing to help against ranged users especially if we don't get mobility. Catching people as a dk is already hard.

Well, if they put a bit of work in Grip/Chains people might start to not ignore this skill.

You know how much people love using silver leash in PvP?

wheem_ESO

The PTS is supposed to open up on April 15th, and we may get patch notes sometime prior to that. Until that point, we can't really say whether this-or-that change is the right way to go or not, but as I said in another thread - something needed to be changed with Wings. It is/was too strong of a counter to Magicka builds, while doing absolutely nothing to counter Stamina's damage (other than Bow builds, which are mostly hard countered).

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Depends on the rest of the balance changes. Beside that, it's always difficult to balance such situational "all or nothing " Skills like Wings or cloak. Just wondering if they will change shimmering as well.

Agreed. Shimmering Shield is another skill that definitely needs some changes; having various counters in the game is great, as long as they aren't hard counters, or approaching hard counter territory. If Wings and Shimmering Shield existed in another MMO, they'd have cooldowns.

Checkmath wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

Wings+block.... won't that then be 125% damage reduction for projectiles?

I think we need to know the full list of changes before we can know if it is to much of a nerf or not.

True but I bet anything NB doesn't lose cloak because so if they don't lose their ability to gank undetected why should we lose our only thing to help against ranged users especially if we don't get mobility. Catching people as a dk is already hard.

Well, if they put a bit of work in Grip/Chains people might start to not ignore this skill.

You know how much people love using silver leash in PvP?

Unfortunately, yes I do. It's one of the most annoying skills in the game right now, especially as a non-Sorc Magicka build.

WoppaBoem

It indeed will be very boring. Something special and unique passing away in the deep and dark dungeon of Elder Scrolls world. It will be rememberred and it will take a long time to morn about. Its a real shame.

Better fixes are :

Make cripple non reflectable
x% of reflect not a 100% anymore
Always deflect

There are other better ways to address this skill without killing it and making it instead of an active skill a resist buff.....

Chilly-McFreeze

Checkmath wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

Wings+block.... won't that then be 125% damage reduction for projectiles?

I think we need to know the full list of changes before we can know if it is to much of a nerf or not.

True but I bet anything NB doesn't lose cloak because so if they don't lose their ability to gank undetected why should we lose our only thing to help against ranged users especially if we don't get mobility. Catching people as a dk is already hard.

Well, if they put a bit of work in Grip/Chains people might start to not ignore this skill.

You know how much people love using silver leash in PvP?

And yet not a small part of the forum dks act as if there aren't any skills to close gaps.

MannKurt

Make some kind of potions that counters wings. I've heared that its a great way to counter broken things (like cloak)?

Datthaw

Why do people always blame magnb for this nerf? There are a lot of ranged builds out there, ever play a master staff sorc?

Alucardo

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

Wings+block.... won't that then be 125% damage reduction for projectiles?

I think we need to know the full list of changes before we can know if it is to much of a nerf or not.

True but I bet anything NB doesn't lose cloak because so if they don't lose their ability to gank undetected why should we lose our only thing to help against ranged users especially if we don't get mobility. Catching people as a dk is already hard.

You literally have a gap closer that also increases your movement speed.

Lorkhan

LoveForElderScrolls wrote: »

Remember those times that Dragonknights killed snipers with their own snipe? Next patch Dragonknights can't do that anymore and instead, wings will reduce the damage of the incoming projectiles by 50% which will make it a boring skill. Do you think Dragonknights will be fun to play next patch?

WHAAAAAAAAAT? THIS CANT BE REAL. APRIL 'FOOL?

Lorkhan

. Huge nerf

Kidgangster101

Heimpai wrote: »

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

Wings+block.... won't that then be 125% damage reduction for projectiles?

I think we need to know the full list of changes before we can know if it is to much of a nerf or not.

True but I bet anything NB doesn't lose cloak because so if they don't lose their ability to gank undetected why should we lose our only thing to help against ranged users especially if we don't get mobility. Catching people as a dk is already hard.

Not a single magblade skill works on wings..get close and use concealed, except most people aren’t stupid enough to fall for that trap

Magblade will also be losing minor berserk

S2W is losing it’s execute, dk‘s aren’t the only ones being nerfed

S2w is just giving the other morph with less range the execute. It is something that should have happened long ago lol.

And if you look on the forums I have advocated so much they fix mag NB. Wings were brutal to them but that is the devs being lazy with their class design and not giving them less reflectable moves. I always say NB shouldn't have been gutted on the healing/siphoning tree like they were and should have had a few of their spamable moves not be reflectable.

Kidgangster101

Alucardo wrote: »

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

Wings+block.... won't that then be 125% damage reduction for projectiles?

I think we need to know the full list of changes before we can know if it is to much of a nerf or not.

True but I bet anything NB doesn't lose cloak because so if they don't lose their ability to gank undetected why should we lose our only thing to help against ranged users especially if we don't get mobility. Catching people as a dk is already hard.

You literally have a gap closer that also increases your movement speed.

What gap closer is this? Lol my ultimate leap? Chain isn't a good gap closer and is a very situational move to use.

Alucardo

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

Wings+block.... won't that then be 125% damage reduction for projectiles?

I think we need to know the full list of changes before we can know if it is to much of a nerf or not.

True but I bet anything NB doesn't lose cloak because so if they don't lose their ability to gank undetected why should we lose our only thing to help against ranged users especially if we don't get mobility. Catching people as a dk is already hard.

You literally have a gap closer that also increases your movement speed.

What gap closer is this? Lol my ultimate leap? Chain isn't a good gap closer and is a very situational move to use.

Yes, empowering chains. And what do you mean by "situational"? It works like any other gap closer, except yours grans major expedition for 4 seconds.
Let's also not forget that reflective plate removes snares, which helps your mobility even more.
Yes, DKs were once stunted in terms of mobility, but now magblades are worse off.

Sanguinor2

Alucardo wrote: »

You literally have a gap closer that also increases your movement speed.

And you have multiple class abilities that ignore wings and can endlessly kite Evil wing Spammers. Just because something exists in the class skill tree doesnt mean its good and/or People have bar space for it.
I have started using chains to lock down healers that are far away or other ranged Targets for smallscale pvp and let me tell you dropping stuff like engulfing or ele drain for it feels really really bad.
Not to Mention that chains still sometimes dont work depending on altitude of the target and sometimes just doesnt pull you to them when your target dodges or cloaks despite chains being "undodgeable".

Alucardo

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

You literally have a gap closer that also increases your movement speed.

And you have multiple class abilities that ignore wings and can endlessly kite Evil wing Spammers. Just because something exists in the class skill tree doesnt mean its good and/or People have bar space for it.
I have started using chains to lock down healers that are far away or other ranged Targets for smallscale pvp and let me tell you dropping stuff like engulfing or ele drain for it feels really really bad.
Not to Mention that chains still sometimes dont work depending on altitude of the target and sometimes just doesnt pull you to them when your target dodges or cloaks despite chains being "undodgeable".

I know finding space on your bar is hard for a mdk, and it is for some other classes too. I'm simply saying that you have options for mobility, so complaining that you have none is simply untrue. If you want more sustain and damage, then you forgo some mobility, if you want mobility then you lose out on some damage or sustain. It's just the way this game works - you can't have your cake and eat it too.
And yes, I'm aware chains is buggy. That doesn't mean it's a bad skill, it just needs to be fixed.

Izaki

Heimpai wrote: »

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

Wings+block.... won't that then be 125% damage reduction for projectiles?

I think we need to know the full list of changes before we can know if it is to much of a nerf or not.

True but I bet anything NB doesn't lose cloak because so if they don't lose their ability to gank undetected why should we lose our only thing to help against ranged users especially if we don't get mobility. Catching people as a dk is already hard.

Not a single magblade skill works on wings..get close and use concealed, except most people aren’t stupid enough to fall for that trap

Magblade will also be losing minor berserk

S2W is losing it’s execute, dk‘s aren’t the only ones being nerfed

I knew about the minor berserk, but where are you guys getting the rest of the info?

Sanguinor2

Alucardo wrote: »

I know finding space on your bar is hard for a mdk, and it is for some other classes too. I'm simply saying that you have options for mobility, so complaining that you have none is simply untrue. If you want more sustain and damage, then you forgo some mobility, if you want mobility then you lose out on some damage or sustain. It's just the way this game works - you can't have your cake and eat it too.
And yes, I'm aware chains is buggy. That doesn't mean it's a bad skill, it just needs to be fixed.

How is the same not true for magblades tho? If you want to fight against shimmering, absorb magic and wings you can also Slot other abilities its just as much of a choice to make as mobility is for dks. And you already said it its just how the game works. Want to kill everything excepts magdks and Wardens from range? Use your usual skills. Want to fight against Wardens and magdks too? Change your Setup. You also have Options against wings.

Alucardo

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

I know finding space on your bar is hard for a mdk, and it is for some other classes too. I'm simply saying that you have options for mobility, so complaining that you have none is simply untrue. If you want more sustain and damage, then you forgo some mobility, if you want mobility then you lose out on some damage or sustain. It's just the way this game works - you can't have your cake and eat it too.
And yes, I'm aware chains is buggy. That doesn't mean it's a bad skill, it just needs to be fixed.

How is the same not true for magblades tho? If you want to fight against shimmering, absorb magic and wings you can also Slot other abilities its just as much of a choice to make as mobility is for dks. And you already said it its just how the game works. Want to kill everything excepts magdks and Wardens from range? Use your usual skills. Want to fight against Wardens and magdks too? Change your Setup. You also have Options against wings.

We were just talking about adding mobility into your build. Altering my build to melee based is a rather dramatic change, and not one magblades generally go for because the healing is terrible, and so is concealed weapon.

Sanguinor2

Alucardo wrote: »

We were just talking about adding mobility into your build. Altering my build to melee based is a rather dramatic change, and not one magblades generally go for because the healing is terrible, and so is concealed weapon.

Im Aware but the Sentiment remains the same. Making sacrifices in your build to make yourself stronger against stuff you struggle against or dont and suffer the consequences.
Just like a magdk without chains will be stronger against melee builds or builds without much mobility, but leaves them open to be endlessly kited by magsorcs and magblades while also sometimes preventing a killing blow against mobile Targets and with slotting chains having 1 useless ability for melee fights and loosing Damage, Sustain or both a magblade too has similar Things to consider.
The other Options you have against wings being weaker doesnt mean that wings Need to be changed but rather that magblade Needs changes to make Building melee rewarding too.

juhislihis19

Alucardo wrote: »

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

Wings+block.... won't that then be 125% damage reduction for projectiles?

I think we need to know the full list of changes before we can know if it is to much of a nerf or not.

True but I bet anything NB doesn't lose cloak because so if they don't lose their ability to gank undetected why should we lose our only thing to help against ranged users especially if we don't get mobility. Catching people as a dk is already hard.

You literally have a gap closer that also increases your movement speed.

The chain skill is useless when Silver Leash's around. It does the same thing with decent damage, more weapon damage and instead of Expedition, they reduce enemy movement. Oh and it also stuns.

So yeah, chains do exist but it's a terrible skill around and no one in their right mind would pick it ahead of Silver. Kind of like DK's have Major Endurance available, but it's hidden inside a terrible heal no one uses in PVP.

Solariken

Dragon Fire Scale will still effectively function similar to before. You really don't have much to worry about.

Heimpai

Izaki wrote: »

Heimpai wrote: »

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

Wings+block.... won't that then be 125% damage reduction for projectiles?

I think we need to know the full list of changes before we can know if it is to much of a nerf or not.

True but I bet anything NB doesn't lose cloak because so if they don't lose their ability to gank undetected why should we lose our only thing to help against ranged users especially if we don't get mobility. Catching people as a dk is already hard.

Not a single magblade skill works on wings..get close and use concealed, except most people aren’t stupid enough to fall for that trap

Magblade will also be losing minor berserk

S2W is losing it’s execute, dk‘s aren’t the only ones being nerfed

I knew about the minor berserk, but where are you guys getting the rest of the info?

A stream, honestly wouldn’t worry to much until the patch notes

My input as a magblade, all i wanted was cripple to work..Don’t get me wrong i would have been happy if strife worked too but mainly wanted cripple

They said they nerfed snipe but with the wing change this is actually a huge buff to snipe spammers, just what we needed 🤦‍♂️

Sanguinor2

Solariken wrote: »

Dragon Fire Scale will still effectively function similar to before. You really don't have much to worry about.

Where do you have the info from, that this Morph will still negate 100% Damage and stop projectiles from applying Status effects and dots?

Nerftheforums

The skill will certainly be more boring, but have you ever tried to play against wings with a ranged build? Let me tell you, if the dk has half a working brain, it's impossible. Literally. You are a parse dummy and nothing more (especially magnbs).

Wings will definitely not be useless, 50% damage mitigation is huge, they will simply allow you to play against them. And don't forget that you will have an actual 6s uptime and not only 4 projectiles.