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RIP Dragonknight Wings
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Sanguinor2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
The one that has:
1) an execute that is reflectable
2) has its burst skill that is reflectable
3) has its primary DOT that is reflectable.
But having a unreflectable spammable is all that one needs to counter wings. /s
Might be biased me, but when I played melee magblade (not in the most recent Patches but some Patches ago) I was able to Play around wings because many dks didnt spam them when getting hit by concealed weaves, with fear Timing thats def killable, then again nb had stronger healing then.
Politeness is respecting others.
Courage is doing what is fair.
Modesty is speaking of oneself without vanity.
Self control is keeping calm even when anger rises.
Sincerity is expressing oneself without concealing ones thoughts.
Honor is keeping ones word.0 -
Sanguinor2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Forget that one copied previous one by accident
Edited by Sanguinor2 on April 3, 2019 10:15PMPoliteness is respecting others.
Courage is doing what is fair.
Modesty is speaking of oneself without vanity.
Self control is keeping calm even when anger rises.
Sincerity is expressing oneself without concealing ones thoughts.
Honor is keeping ones word.0 -
exeeter702✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The new wings is a net buff to dk damage mitigation when outnumbered. They are now garunteed 6 seconds of 50 percent projectile damage reduction. This protects their hp far more than the current wings does when you have 2 or more targets on you since in that 6 second period you are free to cast other methods of defensive without having to commit every other GCD to refreshing wings since the projectile count is getting consumed by light attacks.
This will help dks by letting them commit magicka to offense while benefiting from the buff or commit magicka to defend while the buff is active. The nerd in the back spamming snipe will have to be dealt with, and like everyone else, you have options to close that distance or otherwise deal with it.
And not to mention everyone here conveniently ignoring the other morph that is ostensibly going to have a projectile that fires at the attacker every time you are hit with a projectile. If I were a betting man i would posit one morph is the fireball reflection and the other is snare removal while both are 50 percent projectile damage reduction.8 -
likecats✭✭✭✭✭Sanguinor2 wrote: »
The one that has:
1) an execute that is reflectable
2) has its burst skill that is reflectable
3) has its primary DOT that is reflectable.
But having a unreflectable spammable is all that one needs to counter wings. /s
Might be biased me, but when I played melee magblade (not in the most recent Patches but some Patches ago) I was able to Play around wings because many dks didnt spam them when getting hit by concealed weaves, with fear Timing thats def killable, then again nb had stronger healing then.
Leaving aside the fact that melee magblade is unviable in todays patch (because if you get snared, you're dead), wings have been buffed to 6s. As melee magblade you can not peel that off unless you go on your backbar and light attack 4 times, which takes about 3~4s (4~5 seconds if you add the barswaps) and a fair bit of damage.
As a melee magblade you may feel like you can 'play around' wings and that's because you're comparing melee magblade to ranged magblade that does jack *** to wing users. There is no other melee class that needs to play around wings, they can simply ignore it.
So playing the weakest melee class (that's unviable in snare meta), just so you have a chance to 'play around' wings is a ridiculous counter-argument that many DKs present.Edited by likecats on April 3, 2019 10:22PM6 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭exeeter702 wrote: »Kidgangster101 wrote: »
Let's talk about that increased movement speed. So if I'm trying to run you mean I need to use a move to pull someone close to me to get a speed buff?Sanguinor2 wrote: »
You literally have a gap closer that also increases your movement speed.
And you have multiple class abilities that ignore wings and can endlessly kite Evil wing Spammers. Just because something exists in the class skill tree doesnt mean its good and/or People have bar space for it.
I have started using chains to lock down healers that are far away or other ranged Targets for smallscale pvp and let me tell you dropping stuff like engulfing or ele drain for it feels really really bad.
Not to Mention that chains still sometimes dont work depending on altitude of the target and sometimes just doesnt pull you to them when your target dodges or cloaks despite chains being "undodgeable".
I know finding space on your bar is hard for a mdk, and it is for some other classes too. I'm simply saying that you have options for mobility, so complaining that you have none is simply untrue. If you want more sustain and damage, then you forgo some mobility, if you want mobility then you lose out on some damage or sustain. It's just the way this game works - you can't have your cake and eat it too.
And yes, I'm aware chains is buggy. That doesn't mean it's a bad skill, it just needs to be fixed.Kidgangster101 wrote: »
It makes us get pulled to the enemy or pull them to us for a speed buff. If we do not meet one of those conditions we don't get a speed buff. If we do try to run away also why do we want the enemy to get near us? Logic.........Lol at magdks "bUt chAIn iS bUgGEd" it is a gap close with frigging major expedition and your class have a snare immunity with wings. It works like every other gap close, know how many times I've hit a no cast lotus fan or pop shadow image to get "invalid location"?
Magdks....
Twice now you have innacurately explained the skill in favor of your point. At least understand how the ability works before trying to shoot people down for suggesting it to you.
Empowering chains no matter what, provides the speed buff when you gap close and does not trigger CC immunity on the target. Many claim the chain is buggy but that is no different than similar pathed gap closers like toppling, crit rush and snb charge. Its not a unique weakness to dks and frankly in my personal and long tested expeirence, empowering chains works far more often than it doesnt.
Nah it really is the worse one as it's shorter range than average range abilities and the delay for the chain animation gives a moment where the target still can kite out. and as mentioned, the speed buff is weird on a gap closer which implies you want to be right next to them. You could argue it helps stay on top of them but on offensive, Dk already has talons to take care of that and the real struggle is getting away or getting within chains range to begin with.1 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sanguinor2 wrote: »
The one that has:
1) an execute that is reflectable
2) has its burst skill that is reflectable
3) has its primary DOT that is reflectable.
But having a unreflectable spammable is all that one needs to counter wings. /s
Might be biased me, but when I played melee magblade (not in the most recent Patches but some Patches ago) I was able to Play around wings because many dks didnt spam them when getting hit by concealed weaves, with fear Timing thats def killable, then again nb had stronger healing then.
And back the other way, melee magblade is on a down tick as they lost a good deal of healing potential. At one point, heals and damage was so good and cheap from strife Concealed weapon was not used. Now, strife is nerfed and healing ward nerfed making melee a risky move, concealed weapon is not used.2 -
Sanguinor2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Leaving aside the fact that melee magblade is unviable in todays patch (because if you get snared, you're dead), wings have been buffed to 6s. As melee magblade you can not peel that off unless you go on your backbar and light attack 4 times, which takes about 3~4s (4~5 seconds if you add the barswaps) and a fair bit of damage.
As a melee magblade you may feel like you can 'play around' wings and that's because you're comparing melee magblade to ranged magblade that does jack *** to wing users. There is no other melee class that needs to play around wings, they can simply ignore it.
So playing the weakest melee class (that's unviable in snare meta), just so you have a chance to 'play around' wings is a ridiculous counter-argument that many DKs present.
I agree with melee magblade being really weak this patch (outside of ganking and even there you are better of with a destro), I just really dont want to loose one of the last iconic dk abilities because it hard counters one Sub class, thats why I am so against the wings Change.
I would much rather something like wings not reflecting inside a certain range anymore or magblade being buffed accordingly to not get negated by wings entirely anymore happened….Politeness is respecting others.
Courage is doing what is fair.
Modesty is speaking of oneself without vanity.
Self control is keeping calm even when anger rises.
Sincerity is expressing oneself without concealing ones thoughts.
Honor is keeping ones word.0 -
InvictusApollo✭✭✭✭✭
✭With capped resistances 50% damage mitigation will give you:- 87,5% damage mitigation just like that
- 93,75% damage mitigation when blocking
- 91,5% damage mitigation without blocking but with Major Protection
- 95,63% damage mitigation with blocking and Major Protection
6 -
likecats✭✭✭✭✭Sanguinor2 wrote: »
Leaving aside the fact that melee magblade is unviable in todays patch (because if you get snared, you're dead), wings have been buffed to 6s. As melee magblade you can not peel that off unless you go on your backbar and light attack 4 times, which takes about 3~4s (4~5 seconds if you add the barswaps) and a fair bit of damage.
As a melee magblade you may feel like you can 'play around' wings and that's because you're comparing melee magblade to ranged magblade that does jack *** to wing users. There is no other melee class that needs to play around wings, they can simply ignore it.
So playing the weakest melee class (that's unviable in snare meta), just so you have a chance to 'play around' wings is a ridiculous counter-argument that many DKs present.
I agree with melee magblade being really weak this patch (outside of ganking and even there you are better of with a destro), I just really dont want to loose one of the last iconic dk abilities because it hard counters one Sub class, thats why I am so against the wings Change.
I would much rather something like wings not reflecting inside a certain range anymore or magblade being buffed accordingly to not get negated by wings entirely anymore happened….
I'd personally be fine if they made swallow soul unreflectable and left wings as they are.
Back when they made force pulse unreflectable, swallow soul was 1/2 the cost of force pulse, and magblade was less reliant on swallow soul to survive. Back then, it was a fair choice.
Now, they made swallow soul the same cost as force pulse, and nerfed magblade in healing, there is really no reason for it to be reflectable anymore.
I presented this argument a few months back as well during Murkmire PTS, but DKs vehemently shot it down. Just use force pulse... they said, except that they were serious. Really shows how out of touch these DKs are, and how little they care for balance.
As for melee magblade, they need to really overhaul the playstyle. It was already subpar to ranged magblade 2 years ago. Since then, they have managed to nerf melee magblade almost every patch. No one complains about it, because no one plays it anymore. I play BGs regularly at a high MMR, and have never seen a melee magblade, let alone a melee magblade that played well. It just doesn't work.
Without some form of snare removal, melee magblade will never be viable. Mag DKs probably know this best, since the class was really rejuvenated once they added snare removal to Mag DKs. They know that no melee magicka class can really be effective without snare removal, but they will still vote against it because like I said, they don't give a damn about magicka nightblade PVP viability, they've made that clear with the swallow soul being reflectable debate.Edited by likecats on April 3, 2019 11:26PM1 -
Sanguinor2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Sanguinor2 wrote: »
Leaving aside the fact that melee magblade is unviable in todays patch (because if you get snared, you're dead), wings have been buffed to 6s. As melee magblade you can not peel that off unless you go on your backbar and light attack 4 times, which takes about 3~4s (4~5 seconds if you add the barswaps) and a fair bit of damage.
As a melee magblade you may feel like you can 'play around' wings and that's because you're comparing melee magblade to ranged magblade that does jack *** to wing users. There is no other melee class that needs to play around wings, they can simply ignore it.
So playing the weakest melee class (that's unviable in snare meta), just so you have a chance to 'play around' wings is a ridiculous counter-argument that many DKs present.
I agree with melee magblade being really weak this patch (outside of ganking and even there you are better of with a destro), I just really dont want to loose one of the last iconic dk abilities because it hard counters one Sub class, thats why I am so against the wings Change.
I would much rather something like wings not reflecting inside a certain range anymore or magblade being buffed accordingly to not get negated by wings entirely anymore happened….
I'd personally be fine if they made swallow soul unreflectable and left wings as they are.
Back when they made force pulse unreflectable, swallow soul was 1/2 the cost of force pulse, and magblade was less reliant on swallow soul to survive. Back then, it was a fair choice.
Now, they made swallow soul the same cost as force pulse, and nerfed magblade in healing, there is really no reason for it to be reflectable anymore.
I presented this argument a few months back as well during Murkmire PTS, but DKs vehemently shot it down. Just use force pulse... they said, except that they were serious. Really shows how out of touch these DKs are, and how little they care for balance.
As for melee magblade, they need to really overhaul the playstyle. It was already subpar to ranged magblade 2 years ago. Since then, they have managed to nerf melee magblade almost every patch. No one complains about it, because no one plays it anymore. I play BGs regularly at a high MMR, and have never seen a melee magblade, let alone a melee magblade that played well. It just doesn't work.
Without some form of snare removal, melee magblade will never be viable. Mag DKs probably know this best, since the class was really rejuvenated once they added snare removal to Mag DKs. They know that no melee magicka class can really be effective without snare removal, but they will still vote against it because like I said, they don't give a damn about magicka nightblade PVP viability, they've made that clear with the swallow soul being reflectable debate.
Yeah agree with what you say here, while technically melee magblade could use Forward Momentum its gonna suck real hard to Sustain that and be forced into 2h so not really a good Option either.
Tbh best thing that could happen to magblade imo would be to separate pve and pvp balancing because from a pve stand Point the recent magblade nerfs were necessary to create atleast some semblance of diversity among mag dps but they definitely were Overkill for pvp.Politeness is respecting others.
Courage is doing what is fair.
Modesty is speaking of oneself without vanity.
Self control is keeping calm even when anger rises.
Sincerity is expressing oneself without concealing ones thoughts.
Honor is keeping ones word.0 -
Kidgangster101✭✭✭✭✭
✭exeeter702 wrote: »Kidgangster101 wrote: »
Let's talk about that increased movement speed. So if I'm trying to run you mean I need to use a move to pull someone close to me to get a speed buff?Sanguinor2 wrote: »
You literally have a gap closer that also increases your movement speed.
And you have multiple class abilities that ignore wings and can endlessly kite Evil wing Spammers. Just because something exists in the class skill tree doesnt mean its good and/or People have bar space for it.
I have started using chains to lock down healers that are far away or other ranged Targets for smallscale pvp and let me tell you dropping stuff like engulfing or ele drain for it feels really really bad.
Not to Mention that chains still sometimes dont work depending on altitude of the target and sometimes just doesnt pull you to them when your target dodges or cloaks despite chains being "undodgeable".
I know finding space on your bar is hard for a mdk, and it is for some other classes too. I'm simply saying that you have options for mobility, so complaining that you have none is simply untrue. If you want more sustain and damage, then you forgo some mobility, if you want mobility then you lose out on some damage or sustain. It's just the way this game works - you can't have your cake and eat it too.
And yes, I'm aware chains is buggy. That doesn't mean it's a bad skill, it just needs to be fixed.Kidgangster101 wrote: »
It makes us get pulled to the enemy or pull them to us for a speed buff. If we do not meet one of those conditions we don't get a speed buff. If we do try to run away also why do we want the enemy to get near us? Logic.........Lol at magdks "bUt chAIn iS bUgGEd" it is a gap close with frigging major expedition and your class have a snare immunity with wings. It works like every other gap close, know how many times I've hit a no cast lotus fan or pop shadow image to get "invalid location"?
Magdks....
Twice now you have innacurately explained the skill in favor of your point. At least understand how the ability works before trying to shoot people down for suggesting it to you.
Empowering chains no matter what, provides the speed buff when you gap close and does not trigger CC immunity on the target. Many claim the chain is buggy but that is no different than similar pathed gap closers like toppling, crit rush and snb charge. Its not a unique weakness to dks and frankly in my personal and long tested expeirence, empowering chains works far more often than it doesnt.
Nah it really is the worse one as it's shorter range than average range abilities and the delay for the chain animation gives a moment where the target still can kite out. and as mentioned, the speed buff is weird on a gap closer which implies you want to be right next to them. You could argue it helps stay on top of them but on offensive, Dk already has talons to take care of that and the real struggle is getting away or getting within chains range to begin with.
Exactly the point I have been saying. Thanks0 -
kaithuzar✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sanguinor2 wrote: »Yeah agree with what you say here, while technically melee magblade could use Forward Momentum its gonna suck real hard to Sustain that and be forced into 2h so not really a good Option either.
Tbh best thing that could happen to magblade imo would be to separate pve and pvp balancing because from a pve stand Point the recent magblade nerfs were necessary to create atleast some semblance of diversity among mag dps but they definitely were Overkill for pvp.
There’s an easier way..
NO ONE uses concealed weapon in pve, how about we buff that?!?Edited by kaithuzar on April 4, 2019 2:01AMMember of:
Fantasia - osh kosh b-josh
Just Chill - Crown's house
GoldCloaks - Durruthy test server penga
Small Meme Guild - Mano's house
Former member of:
Legend - Siffer fan boy club
TKO (tamriel knight's order) - free bks
Deviance - Leonard's senche tiger
Purple - hamNchz is my hero
Eight Divines - myrlifax stop playing final fantasy
WKB (we kill bosses) - turd where you go?
Arcance Council - Klytz Kommander
World Boss - Mike & Chewy gone EP
M12 (majestic twelve) - cult of the loli zerg0 -
Kidgangster101✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sanguinor2 wrote: »Yeah agree with what you say here, while technically melee magblade could use Forward Momentum its gonna suck real hard to Sustain that and be forced into 2h so not really a good Option either.
Tbh best thing that could happen to magblade imo would be to separate pve and pvp balancing because from a pve stand Point the recent magblade nerfs were necessary to create atleast some semblance of diversity among mag dps but they definitely were Overkill for pvp.
There’s an easier way..
NO ONE uses concealed weapon in pve, how about we buff that?!?
That's fine and it should apply major breech just how SA does major fracture0 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Kidgangster101 wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »Kidgangster101 wrote: »
Let's talk about that increased movement speed. So if I'm trying to run you mean I need to use a move to pull someone close to me to get a speed buff?Sanguinor2 wrote: »
You literally have a gap closer that also increases your movement speed.
And you have multiple class abilities that ignore wings and can endlessly kite Evil wing Spammers. Just because something exists in the class skill tree doesnt mean its good and/or People have bar space for it.
I have started using chains to lock down healers that are far away or other ranged Targets for smallscale pvp and let me tell you dropping stuff like engulfing or ele drain for it feels really really bad.
Not to Mention that chains still sometimes dont work depending on altitude of the target and sometimes just doesnt pull you to them when your target dodges or cloaks despite chains being "undodgeable".
I know finding space on your bar is hard for a mdk, and it is for some other classes too. I'm simply saying that you have options for mobility, so complaining that you have none is simply untrue. If you want more sustain and damage, then you forgo some mobility, if you want mobility then you lose out on some damage or sustain. It's just the way this game works - you can't have your cake and eat it too.
And yes, I'm aware chains is buggy. That doesn't mean it's a bad skill, it just needs to be fixed.Kidgangster101 wrote: »
It makes us get pulled to the enemy or pull them to us for a speed buff. If we do not meet one of those conditions we don't get a speed buff. If we do try to run away also why do we want the enemy to get near us? Logic.........Lol at magdks "bUt chAIn iS bUgGEd" it is a gap close with frigging major expedition and your class have a snare immunity with wings. It works like every other gap close, know how many times I've hit a no cast lotus fan or pop shadow image to get "invalid location"?
Magdks....
Twice now you have innacurately explained the skill in favor of your point. At least understand how the ability works before trying to shoot people down for suggesting it to you.
Empowering chains no matter what, provides the speed buff when you gap close and does not trigger CC immunity on the target. Many claim the chain is buggy but that is no different than similar pathed gap closers like toppling, crit rush and snb charge. Its not a unique weakness to dks and frankly in my personal and long tested expeirence, empowering chains works far more often than it doesnt.
Nah it really is the worse one as it's shorter range than average range abilities and the delay for the chain animation gives a moment where the target still can kite out. and as mentioned, the speed buff is weird on a gap closer which implies you want to be right next to them. You could argue it helps stay on top of them but on offensive, Dk already has talons to take care of that and the real struggle is getting away or getting within chains range to begin with.
Exactly the point I have been saying. Thanks
Im just trying to show that this doesnt need to be an us vs them. I play both classes. I surely know how it feels as a DK to lose something that is pretty iconic, especially on stupid assed snipe spammers. I also can see the magblade side where they have gotten worse and worse over the past year.Sanguinor2 wrote: »Yeah agree with what you say here, while technically melee magblade could use Forward Momentum its gonna suck real hard to Sustain that and be forced into 2h so not really a good Option either.
Tbh best thing that could happen to magblade imo would be to separate pve and pvp balancing because from a pve stand Point the recent magblade nerfs were necessary to create atleast some semblance of diversity among mag dps but they definitely were Overkill for pvp.
There’s an easier way..
NO ONE uses concealed weapon in pve, how about we buff that?!?
What about Sap Essence? Is anyone using that? I would like to see it come back a bit as well.0 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭LoveForElderScrolls wrote: »Remember those times that Dragonknights killed snipers with their own snipe? Next patch Dragonknights can't do that anymore and instead, wings will reduce the damage of the incoming projectiles by 50% which will make it a boring skill. Do you think Dragonknights will be fun to play next patch?
Depends on what time you're talking about
I remember when you could reflect the reflect ....Dragon Knight Snipers use to instant kill Dragon Knights using Wings ;o)
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos1 -
Insco851✭✭✭✭✭
✭Mdk relies heavily on melee pressure, just make it where any projectile outside 8-10m is reflected and not so inside that.
Simple, saves melee mag classes, stops snipe spammers, indirectly forces ranged attackers into the DK Hell House. That might even be a buff.1 -
RedTalon✭✭✭✭✭Out of wondering what is happening to the reflect shield ujlt? Wonder if I need to work in a diofferent ultiomate for my sniper cant touch me builds0 -
Kidgangster101✭✭✭✭✭
✭Kidgangster101 wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »Kidgangster101 wrote: »
Let's talk about that increased movement speed. So if I'm trying to run you mean I need to use a move to pull someone close to me to get a speed buff?Sanguinor2 wrote: »
You literally have a gap closer that also increases your movement speed.
And you have multiple class abilities that ignore wings and can endlessly kite Evil wing Spammers. Just because something exists in the class skill tree doesnt mean its good and/or People have bar space for it.
I have started using chains to lock down healers that are far away or other ranged Targets for smallscale pvp and let me tell you dropping stuff like engulfing or ele drain for it feels really really bad.
Not to Mention that chains still sometimes dont work depending on altitude of the target and sometimes just doesnt pull you to them when your target dodges or cloaks despite chains being "undodgeable".
I know finding space on your bar is hard for a mdk, and it is for some other classes too. I'm simply saying that you have options for mobility, so complaining that you have none is simply untrue. If you want more sustain and damage, then you forgo some mobility, if you want mobility then you lose out on some damage or sustain. It's just the way this game works - you can't have your cake and eat it too.
And yes, I'm aware chains is buggy. That doesn't mean it's a bad skill, it just needs to be fixed.Kidgangster101 wrote: »
It makes us get pulled to the enemy or pull them to us for a speed buff. If we do not meet one of those conditions we don't get a speed buff. If we do try to run away also why do we want the enemy to get near us? Logic.........Lol at magdks "bUt chAIn iS bUgGEd" it is a gap close with frigging major expedition and your class have a snare immunity with wings. It works like every other gap close, know how many times I've hit a no cast lotus fan or pop shadow image to get "invalid location"?
Magdks....
Twice now you have innacurately explained the skill in favor of your point. At least understand how the ability works before trying to shoot people down for suggesting it to you.
Empowering chains no matter what, provides the speed buff when you gap close and does not trigger CC immunity on the target. Many claim the chain is buggy but that is no different than similar pathed gap closers like toppling, crit rush and snb charge. Its not a unique weakness to dks and frankly in my personal and long tested expeirence, empowering chains works far more often than it doesnt.
Nah it really is the worse one as it's shorter range than average range abilities and the delay for the chain animation gives a moment where the target still can kite out. and as mentioned, the speed buff is weird on a gap closer which implies you want to be right next to them. You could argue it helps stay on top of them but on offensive, Dk already has talons to take care of that and the real struggle is getting away or getting within chains range to begin with.
Exactly the point I have been saying. Thanks
Im just trying to show that this doesnt need to be an us vs them. I play both classes. I surely know how it feels as a DK to lose something that is pretty iconic, especially on stupid assed snipe spammers. I also can see the magblade side where they have gotten worse and worse over the past year.Sanguinor2 wrote: »Yeah agree with what you say here, while technically melee magblade could use Forward Momentum its gonna suck real hard to Sustain that and be forced into 2h so not really a good Option either.
Tbh best thing that could happen to magblade imo would be to separate pve and pvp balancing because from a pve stand Point the recent magblade nerfs were necessary to create atleast some semblance of diversity among mag dps but they definitely were Overkill for pvp.
There’s an easier way..
NO ONE uses concealed weapon in pve, how about we buff that?!?
What about Sap Essence? Is anyone using that? I would like to see it come back a bit as well.
And I have acknowledged that in almost all of my posts. I have said over and over again instead of nerfing dk wings because they do exactly what it is meant to do. But they need to fix magblade badly because the class got stripped of siphoning skill line badly and it should have a few good non reflectable moves they can use meaning zos should fix their mistakes and fix the one class we fully bully because of the way they designed the game.1 -
TrinityBreaker✭✭✭✭✭Kidgangster101 wrote: »Kidgangster101 wrote: »Knootewoot wrote: »Wings+block.... won't that then be 125% damage reduction for projectiles?
I think we need to know the full list of changes before we can know if it is to much of a nerf or not.
True but I bet anything NB doesn't lose cloak because so if they don't lose their ability to gank undetected why should we lose our only thing to help against ranged users especially if we don't get mobility. Catching people as a dk is already hard.
You literally have a gap closer that also increases your movement speed.
What gap closer is this? Lol my ultimate leap? Chain isn't a good gap closer and is a very situational move to use.
Yes, empowering chains. And what do you mean by "situational"? It works like any other gap closer, except yours grans major expedition for 4 seconds.
Let's also not forget that reflective plate removes snares, which helps your mobility even more.
Yes, DKs were once stunted in terms of mobility, but now magblades are worse off.
If my target is even and inch higher or lower than me, chains won't fire off. Your target can literally be standing in an ant hill and the *** skill will glitch out and not fire off. Hella annoying.Ebonheart for life.
Xbox NA
I am Dog Star.
Khajiit Stam Sorc - Ji'saad Ranajiradh AR 30
Khajiit Mag DK - Kesjhad
Khajiit Magblade - Ji'sava Ak'nir
Fat Khajiit Stamplar - Dro'haniAk'nir - AR 36
Khajiit Stam Dk - Diego Ri'jhad - AR 49
Khajiit Magplar - Dro'nara Ak'nir
Khajiit StamBlade - Ri'artharr Ak'nir
Fat Khajiit Stamden - Dro'hani Warbreaker
Argonian Stam DK - Tiberius Demetros
Khajiit Stamplar - Diëgo Ri'jhad
Fat Khajiit Stam DK - Drö'hani Ak'nir/Dances-With-Alkosh
Khajiit Magden - Arctic Mayhem0 -
TrinityBreaker✭✭✭✭✭
Did you miss the part where I mentioned a drastic cost increase? I'm fine with Magicka DKs having some improved mobility and better methods to engage/escape (though I think the gap closer morph of chains is overlooked more than it should be). The main problem making Wings overpowered right now is having such an extended uptime.Every Magicka class that isn't a Sorcerer lacks mobility options - that's not a purely Mag DK issue. But, that lack of mobility is no more a valid justification for the current incarnation of Wings than it is the current incarnation of my Magicka Warden's Shimmering Shield; both are overpowered and need changes.
I don't think anyone with an ounce of objectivity is really against the concept of Magicka DKs having some active defensive abilities to use when closing the distance to their target. The issue comes about because of just how strong the ability is, and how it's not only used when closing the distance. You can sit on top of another Magicka build "spamming" your Wings, while keeping them perma-snared, wrecking their Stamina with Petrify, and potentially using Talons as well (try fighting a decent Mag DK as a Magicka Warden that isn't running an AOE proc set cheese build, it's an incredibly lopsided fight).
If most of the concern from Mag DK players legitimately centers around closing the distance, surely it would be better to offer more mobility options, and/or change Wings so that it's actually good for that purpose, rather than being a straight up hardcounter vs many other Magicka setups (not just Magblades). Maybe something like:
1) Add a major expedition buff and/or cost reduction for Sprint.
2) Leave the snare/root immunity and reflect in place, perhaps even with a larger number of charges and longer duration.
3) Drastically increase the cost.
Something like that could help with closing the distance (without having to use either morph of Chains), while still giving some benefit when trying to escape. However, it would no longer be something that you could spam while sitting on top of another immobile Magicka build in order to prevent them from fighting back.
What you are asking is to make wings multi tool that would allow not only to stay almost untouchable at distance, but also escape and engage tool, in general OP version of mist form without any drawbacks, thanks but no.
I still think that wings would be better if it would work only for skills casted from range greater than 8m, while changing it so 4 reflected projectiles are counted per player.
Your suggestion would help in some cases, but it'd basically make their escape from other Magicka builds a 100% guaranteed success, unless being zerged with mass Force Pulse and/or Cliff Racers. 'Course, my off-the-top-of-my-head suggestion isn't perfect, either, since they'd still generally hard counter other Magicka builds in objective-mode Battlegrounds.
But even ZOS' (supposed) upcoming change isn't what's needed, IMO. A flat 50% damage reduction from projectiles, if it's anywhere near as spammable as the Wings are now, is going to be absurdly overpowered vs most other Magicka setups. Which means that we'll continue to have a situation where Magicka builds get hard countered by numerous different things, while Stam remains the king of small scale fights and Battlegrounds.
Bro, wings are 3780 magicka. Unless you have hella recov, who can sustain that? Mag DK sustain is already ass because 90% of its skills are expensive AF. Not to mention stam DK can use wings literally twice and be out of magicka.Ebonheart for life.
Xbox NA
I am Dog Star.
Khajiit Stam Sorc - Ji'saad Ranajiradh AR 30
Khajiit Mag DK - Kesjhad
Khajiit Magblade - Ji'sava Ak'nir
Fat Khajiit Stamplar - Dro'haniAk'nir - AR 36
Khajiit Stam Dk - Diego Ri'jhad - AR 49
Khajiit Magplar - Dro'nara Ak'nir
Khajiit StamBlade - Ri'artharr Ak'nir
Fat Khajiit Stamden - Dro'hani Warbreaker
Argonian Stam DK - Tiberius Demetros
Khajiit Stamplar - Diëgo Ri'jhad
Fat Khajiit Stam DK - Drö'hani Ak'nir/Dances-With-Alkosh
Khajiit Magden - Arctic Mayhem1 -
Knootewoot✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭TrinityBreaker wrote: »
Did you miss the part where I mentioned a drastic cost increase? I'm fine with Magicka DKs having some improved mobility and better methods to engage/escape (though I think the gap closer morph of chains is overlooked more than it should be). The main problem making Wings overpowered right now is having such an extended uptime.Every Magicka class that isn't a Sorcerer lacks mobility options - that's not a purely Mag DK issue. But, that lack of mobility is no more a valid justification for the current incarnation of Wings than it is the current incarnation of my Magicka Warden's Shimmering Shield; both are overpowered and need changes.
I don't think anyone with an ounce of objectivity is really against the concept of Magicka DKs having some active defensive abilities to use when closing the distance to their target. The issue comes about because of just how strong the ability is, and how it's not only used when closing the distance. You can sit on top of another Magicka build "spamming" your Wings, while keeping them perma-snared, wrecking their Stamina with Petrify, and potentially using Talons as well (try fighting a decent Mag DK as a Magicka Warden that isn't running an AOE proc set cheese build, it's an incredibly lopsided fight).
If most of the concern from Mag DK players legitimately centers around closing the distance, surely it would be better to offer more mobility options, and/or change Wings so that it's actually good for that purpose, rather than being a straight up hardcounter vs many other Magicka setups (not just Magblades). Maybe something like:
1) Add a major expedition buff and/or cost reduction for Sprint.
2) Leave the snare/root immunity and reflect in place, perhaps even with a larger number of charges and longer duration.
3) Drastically increase the cost.
Something like that could help with closing the distance (without having to use either morph of Chains), while still giving some benefit when trying to escape. However, it would no longer be something that you could spam while sitting on top of another immobile Magicka build in order to prevent them from fighting back.
What you are asking is to make wings multi tool that would allow not only to stay almost untouchable at distance, but also escape and engage tool, in general OP version of mist form without any drawbacks, thanks but no.
I still think that wings would be better if it would work only for skills casted from range greater than 8m, while changing it so 4 reflected projectiles are counted per player.
Your suggestion would help in some cases, but it'd basically make their escape from other Magicka builds a 100% guaranteed success, unless being zerged with mass Force Pulse and/or Cliff Racers. 'Course, my off-the-top-of-my-head suggestion isn't perfect, either, since they'd still generally hard counter other Magicka builds in objective-mode Battlegrounds.
But even ZOS' (supposed) upcoming change isn't what's needed, IMO. A flat 50% damage reduction from projectiles, if it's anywhere near as spammable as the Wings are now, is going to be absurdly overpowered vs most other Magicka setups. Which means that we'll continue to have a situation where Magicka builds get hard countered by numerous different things, while Stam remains the king of small scale fights and Battlegrounds.
Bro, wings are 3780 magicka. Unless you have hella recov, who can sustain that? Mag DK sustain is already ass because 90% of its skills are expensive AF. Not to mention stam DK can use wings literally twice and be out of magicka.
Cloak also cost 3780 magicka and only lasts 3 secs, yet according to other classes all NB are perma cloaked٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶
"I am a nightblade. Blending the disciplines of the stealthy agent and subtle wizard, I move unseen and undetected, foil locks and traps, and teleport to safety when threatened, or strike like a viper from ambush. The College of Illusion hides me and fuddles or pacifies my opponents. The College of Mysticism detects my object, reflects and dispels enemy spells, and makes good my escape. The key to a nightblade's success is avoidance, by spell or by stealth; with these skills, all things are possible."7 -
HowlKimchi✭✭✭✭✭
✭Knootewoot wrote: »TrinityBreaker wrote: »
Did you miss the part where I mentioned a drastic cost increase? I'm fine with Magicka DKs having some improved mobility and better methods to engage/escape (though I think the gap closer morph of chains is overlooked more than it should be). The main problem making Wings overpowered right now is having such an extended uptime.Every Magicka class that isn't a Sorcerer lacks mobility options - that's not a purely Mag DK issue. But, that lack of mobility is no more a valid justification for the current incarnation of Wings than it is the current incarnation of my Magicka Warden's Shimmering Shield; both are overpowered and need changes.
I don't think anyone with an ounce of objectivity is really against the concept of Magicka DKs having some active defensive abilities to use when closing the distance to their target. The issue comes about because of just how strong the ability is, and how it's not only used when closing the distance. You can sit on top of another Magicka build "spamming" your Wings, while keeping them perma-snared, wrecking their Stamina with Petrify, and potentially using Talons as well (try fighting a decent Mag DK as a Magicka Warden that isn't running an AOE proc set cheese build, it's an incredibly lopsided fight).
If most of the concern from Mag DK players legitimately centers around closing the distance, surely it would be better to offer more mobility options, and/or change Wings so that it's actually good for that purpose, rather than being a straight up hardcounter vs many other Magicka setups (not just Magblades). Maybe something like:
1) Add a major expedition buff and/or cost reduction for Sprint.
2) Leave the snare/root immunity and reflect in place, perhaps even with a larger number of charges and longer duration.
3) Drastically increase the cost.
Something like that could help with closing the distance (without having to use either morph of Chains), while still giving some benefit when trying to escape. However, it would no longer be something that you could spam while sitting on top of another immobile Magicka build in order to prevent them from fighting back.
What you are asking is to make wings multi tool that would allow not only to stay almost untouchable at distance, but also escape and engage tool, in general OP version of mist form without any drawbacks, thanks but no.
I still think that wings would be better if it would work only for skills casted from range greater than 8m, while changing it so 4 reflected projectiles are counted per player.
Your suggestion would help in some cases, but it'd basically make their escape from other Magicka builds a 100% guaranteed success, unless being zerged with mass Force Pulse and/or Cliff Racers. 'Course, my off-the-top-of-my-head suggestion isn't perfect, either, since they'd still generally hard counter other Magicka builds in objective-mode Battlegrounds.
But even ZOS' (supposed) upcoming change isn't what's needed, IMO. A flat 50% damage reduction from projectiles, if it's anywhere near as spammable as the Wings are now, is going to be absurdly overpowered vs most other Magicka setups. Which means that we'll continue to have a situation where Magicka builds get hard countered by numerous different things, while Stam remains the king of small scale fights and Battlegrounds.
Bro, wings are 3780 magicka. Unless you have hella recov, who can sustain that? Mag DK sustain is already ass because 90% of its skills are expensive AF. Not to mention stam DK can use wings literally twice and be out of magicka.
Cloak also cost 3780 magicka and only lasts 3 secs, yet according to other classes all NB are perma cloaked
4 -
Trancestor✭✭✭✭✭Magdks complaining about having bad mobility when theyre the only mag class that has a snare removal in their kit lul, try playing a magplar or magden without mistform or worst of all a magblade.7
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Sanguinor2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
There’s an easier way..
NO ONE uses concealed weapon in pve, how about we buff that?!?
Thats an Option too, but I was under the Impression that magblades want the healing off swallow/funnel to be stronger again, buffing the swallow self heal would also be an Option that wouldnt have much Impact (if any at all) on pve, same with making it unreflectable, the reason the healing was nerfed was the Group healing a magblade could provide in pve Content while still being the highest dps with the best Sustain (with Refreshing and funnel you could get 15k hps if your Group stacked well while dealing the highest dmg a mag dd could have and with the best Sustain by far). That however has changed so buffing the self healing off magblade is something that should be done.
Honestly thats why I said that sepparating the pve and pvp balance would be the best because it would allow magblade to not only get the stronger self healing, which they already should get tbh, but it would also enable them to get the stronger Group healing again without having 7 dds (in mini Trials) that put out over 100k healing per second.
I might not be the best Person to say what pvp magblade Needs, since I stopped playing mine outside of getting Campaign rewards, because I was sick of magblade because being forced to Play it since morrowind for pve dps until Pretty much murkmire is exhausting.
Politeness is respecting others.
Courage is doing what is fair.
Modesty is speaking of oneself without vanity.
Self control is keeping calm even when anger rises.
Sincerity is expressing oneself without concealing ones thoughts.
Honor is keeping ones word.0 -
Neloth✭✭✭✭Trancestor wrote: »Magdks complaining about having bad mobility when theyre the only mag class that has a snare removal in their kit lul, try playing a magplar or magden without mistform or worst of all a magblade.
looks like these guys still live in 2016
you know, those permablock and stand your ground times
one even suggesting to play melee magblade, lul
Idk, maybe I should I slot proxy det and vicious death to make it work, looking forward for some advice3 -
gepe87✭✭✭✭✭
✭RIP in every change:
RIP Stamblades with ultimate change
RIP Magsorc with shield change
RIP Stamsorc with implosion removal
RIP DK with Lash changes
RIP Altmer and Bosmer
RIP
RIP
RIP
Gepe, Dunmer MagSorc Pact Grand Overlord | Gaepe, Bosmer MagSorc Dominion General
If you see edits on my replies: typos. English isn't my main language0 -
TrinityBreaker✭✭✭✭✭Knootewoot wrote: »TrinityBreaker wrote: »
Did you miss the part where I mentioned a drastic cost increase? I'm fine with Magicka DKs having some improved mobility and better methods to engage/escape (though I think the gap closer morph of chains is overlooked more than it should be). The main problem making Wings overpowered right now is having such an extended uptime.Every Magicka class that isn't a Sorcerer lacks mobility options - that's not a purely Mag DK issue. But, that lack of mobility is no more a valid justification for the current incarnation of Wings than it is the current incarnation of my Magicka Warden's Shimmering Shield; both are overpowered and need changes.
I don't think anyone with an ounce of objectivity is really against the concept of Magicka DKs having some active defensive abilities to use when closing the distance to their target. The issue comes about because of just how strong the ability is, and how it's not only used when closing the distance. You can sit on top of another Magicka build "spamming" your Wings, while keeping them perma-snared, wrecking their Stamina with Petrify, and potentially using Talons as well (try fighting a decent Mag DK as a Magicka Warden that isn't running an AOE proc set cheese build, it's an incredibly lopsided fight).
If most of the concern from Mag DK players legitimately centers around closing the distance, surely it would be better to offer more mobility options, and/or change Wings so that it's actually good for that purpose, rather than being a straight up hardcounter vs many other Magicka setups (not just Magblades). Maybe something like:
1) Add a major expedition buff and/or cost reduction for Sprint.
2) Leave the snare/root immunity and reflect in place, perhaps even with a larger number of charges and longer duration.
3) Drastically increase the cost.
Something like that could help with closing the distance (without having to use either morph of Chains), while still giving some benefit when trying to escape. However, it would no longer be something that you could spam while sitting on top of another immobile Magicka build in order to prevent them from fighting back.
What you are asking is to make wings multi tool that would allow not only to stay almost untouchable at distance, but also escape and engage tool, in general OP version of mist form without any drawbacks, thanks but no.
I still think that wings would be better if it would work only for skills casted from range greater than 8m, while changing it so 4 reflected projectiles are counted per player.
Your suggestion would help in some cases, but it'd basically make their escape from other Magicka builds a 100% guaranteed success, unless being zerged with mass Force Pulse and/or Cliff Racers. 'Course, my off-the-top-of-my-head suggestion isn't perfect, either, since they'd still generally hard counter other Magicka builds in objective-mode Battlegrounds.
But even ZOS' (supposed) upcoming change isn't what's needed, IMO. A flat 50% damage reduction from projectiles, if it's anywhere near as spammable as the Wings are now, is going to be absurdly overpowered vs most other Magicka setups. Which means that we'll continue to have a situation where Magicka builds get hard countered by numerous different things, while Stam remains the king of small scale fights and Battlegrounds.
Bro, wings are 3780 magicka. Unless you have hella recov, who can sustain that? Mag DK sustain is already ass because 90% of its skills are expensive AF. Not to mention stam DK can use wings literally twice and be out of magicka.
Cloak also cost 3780 magicka and only lasts 3 secs, yet according to other classes all NB are perma cloaked
Unless you are 1v1ing, wings won't even last a second if there is more than one enemy. That *** will legit drop the moment the skill is cast. As for the perma cloak thing, they are.Ebonheart for life.
Xbox NA
I am Dog Star.
Khajiit Stam Sorc - Ji'saad Ranajiradh AR 30
Khajiit Mag DK - Kesjhad
Khajiit Magblade - Ji'sava Ak'nir
Fat Khajiit Stamplar - Dro'haniAk'nir - AR 36
Khajiit Stam Dk - Diego Ri'jhad - AR 49
Khajiit Magplar - Dro'nara Ak'nir
Khajiit StamBlade - Ri'artharr Ak'nir
Fat Khajiit Stamden - Dro'hani Warbreaker
Argonian Stam DK - Tiberius Demetros
Khajiit Stamplar - Diëgo Ri'jhad
Fat Khajiit Stam DK - Drö'hani Ak'nir/Dances-With-Alkosh
Khajiit Magden - Arctic Mayhem0 -
TheBonesXXX✭✭✭✭✭
✭Kidgangster101 wrote: »Sanguinor2 wrote: »
You literally have a gap closer that also increases your movement speed.
And you have multiple class abilities that ignore wings and can endlessly kite Evil wing Spammers. Just because something exists in the class skill tree doesnt mean its good and/or People have bar space for it.
I have started using chains to lock down healers that are far away or other ranged Targets for smallscale pvp and let me tell you dropping stuff like engulfing or ele drain for it feels really really bad.
Not to Mention that chains still sometimes dont work depending on altitude of the target and sometimes just doesnt pull you to them when your target dodges or cloaks despite chains being "undodgeable".
I know finding space on your bar is hard for a mdk, and it is for some other classes too. I'm simply saying that you have options for mobility, so complaining that you have none is simply untrue. If you want more sustain and damage, then you forgo some mobility, if you want mobility then you lose out on some damage or sustain. It's just the way this game works - you can't have your cake and eat it too.
And yes, I'm aware chains is buggy. That doesn't mean it's a bad skill, it just needs to be fixed.
Chains Grant cc immunity so if I pull in they can still escape. It works great in big group play where my group will pounce the person but if I'm alone the person now knows I can't cc then and starts to go ham maybe cc me. And this move is no different then silver leash.
Let's talk about that increased movement speed. So if I'm trying to run you mean I need to use a move to pull someone close to me to get a speed buff? Lol sorcs and major expedition and stread, NB can escape through cloak, warden gas bird of prey, so yeah we lack mobility.
Another thing that makes chains situational is the fact that along with our wing Nerf all those NB spamming snipe from 28m away can watch us move to them as they keep walking back as we try to close the gap because chains isn't 28m. So now I'm taking huge damage and will be almost dead by the time I get him in chain range, but my movement speed from chains was so good and worth me slotting right?
Chains is iconic to DK. So let's buff it.
1) Give it it's original range back.
2) Get rid of the CC immunity.
3) Unnerf Z axis change.
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Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭TrinityBreaker wrote: »Knootewoot wrote: »TrinityBreaker wrote: »
Did you miss the part where I mentioned a drastic cost increase? I'm fine with Magicka DKs having some improved mobility and better methods to engage/escape (though I think the gap closer morph of chains is overlooked more than it should be). The main problem making Wings overpowered right now is having such an extended uptime.Every Magicka class that isn't a Sorcerer lacks mobility options - that's not a purely Mag DK issue. But, that lack of mobility is no more a valid justification for the current incarnation of Wings than it is the current incarnation of my Magicka Warden's Shimmering Shield; both are overpowered and need changes.
I don't think anyone with an ounce of objectivity is really against the concept of Magicka DKs having some active defensive abilities to use when closing the distance to their target. The issue comes about because of just how strong the ability is, and how it's not only used when closing the distance. You can sit on top of another Magicka build "spamming" your Wings, while keeping them perma-snared, wrecking their Stamina with Petrify, and potentially using Talons as well (try fighting a decent Mag DK as a Magicka Warden that isn't running an AOE proc set cheese build, it's an incredibly lopsided fight).
If most of the concern from Mag DK players legitimately centers around closing the distance, surely it would be better to offer more mobility options, and/or change Wings so that it's actually good for that purpose, rather than being a straight up hardcounter vs many other Magicka setups (not just Magblades). Maybe something like:
1) Add a major expedition buff and/or cost reduction for Sprint.
2) Leave the snare/root immunity and reflect in place, perhaps even with a larger number of charges and longer duration.
3) Drastically increase the cost.
Something like that could help with closing the distance (without having to use either morph of Chains), while still giving some benefit when trying to escape. However, it would no longer be something that you could spam while sitting on top of another immobile Magicka build in order to prevent them from fighting back.
What you are asking is to make wings multi tool that would allow not only to stay almost untouchable at distance, but also escape and engage tool, in general OP version of mist form without any drawbacks, thanks but no.
I still think that wings would be better if it would work only for skills casted from range greater than 8m, while changing it so 4 reflected projectiles are counted per player.
Your suggestion would help in some cases, but it'd basically make their escape from other Magicka builds a 100% guaranteed success, unless being zerged with mass Force Pulse and/or Cliff Racers. 'Course, my off-the-top-of-my-head suggestion isn't perfect, either, since they'd still generally hard counter other Magicka builds in objective-mode Battlegrounds.
But even ZOS' (supposed) upcoming change isn't what's needed, IMO. A flat 50% damage reduction from projectiles, if it's anywhere near as spammable as the Wings are now, is going to be absurdly overpowered vs most other Magicka setups. Which means that we'll continue to have a situation where Magicka builds get hard countered by numerous different things, while Stam remains the king of small scale fights and Battlegrounds.
Bro, wings are 3780 magicka. Unless you have hella recov, who can sustain that? Mag DK sustain is already ass because 90% of its skills are expensive AF. Not to mention stam DK can use wings literally twice and be out of magicka.
Cloak also cost 3780 magicka and only lasts 3 secs, yet according to other classes all NB are perma cloaked
Unless you are 1v1ing, wings won't even last a second if there is more than one enemy. That *** will legit drop the moment the skill is cast. As for the perma cloak thing, they are.
Well, then you appreciate the change since wings will last the full duration then, right?
6
