Goregrinder wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »Paazhahdrimaak wrote: »Hopefully the other stuff will follow. Skill lines, exploration, mount training.......
Your kind are the problem here
YouPaazhahdrimaak wrote: »This is 100% P2W.
So a fresh character is gonna be able to have every skill point now?
really? quest, dangeon SP sold?
I have 10 characters to champ, farmed lots of SP on all, this is BS that they are accommodating to casuals and unskilled lazy players this much.
It's ironic that you have a problem with easily unlocking Skyshards on multiple characters, but have no problems with have Champion Points shared between all your toons without having to unlock them all over again per toon.
It's not ironic. Its Apples vs. Oranges. One of them is account wide for all the work you put into the game. One has you put a bunch of work in the game, will apparently be account wide, then you have to open your wallet and pay extra real life money.
Its sleazy. It should just work like CP does.
You don't HAVE to open your wallet lol....you just run to the skyshards and unlock them. You get to CHOOSE how to unlock them on new toons.
Getting Skyshards is not winning. CP 810 people get rekt in PVP daily. Skillpoints are not "winning" anything. So according to you, having the option to spend money on something for access to something in an online game automatically makes something pay to win?
Not at all what I said.
You asked if it was ironic in accordance to CP, and I pointed out that CP was automatically account wide, while Shards are account wide, just as much effort as CP, but only one has a monetary option.
For your idea to be ironic, you'd have to also be able to pay for CP.
See the difference? (I doubt you do...you're more interested in arguing)
And if they charged to unlock CP's per toon in addition to letting people re-farm them all...would that be "Pay To Win"?
CP has a direct correlation with power and stats, so yes, that would be pay to win. Another reason why you shouldn't be comparing them...
And considering we are getting CP's unlocked on all toons for "free", would this be a "Free-To-Win" service? Also, how do new players who just hit level 50 on a brand new account compete in CP PVP or in Vet Dungeons compete against CP 810 toons? And what is ZOS going to do about giving one group of players a distinct advantage to win over another group of players?
Sounds pretty unfair that players can just pay with their time to automatically win.
See, I knew you are just here to argue.
What you're saying doesn't even make sense, nor does it address what I said.
Its still going to cost you time to unlock shards. You're not skipping that part. With shards, it's going to cost you time AND money. That's why what you're saying has no relevance to what I said...you are just trying to argue by talking in circles.
Good luck with that...😆😆
Goregrinder wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »Paazhahdrimaak wrote: »Hopefully the other stuff will follow. Skill lines, exploration, mount training.......
Your kind are the problem here
YouPaazhahdrimaak wrote: »This is 100% P2W.
So a fresh character is gonna be able to have every skill point now?
really? quest, dangeon SP sold?
I have 10 characters to champ, farmed lots of SP on all, this is BS that they are accommodating to casuals and unskilled lazy players this much.
It's ironic that you have a problem with easily unlocking Skyshards on multiple characters, but have no problems with have Champion Points shared between all your toons without having to unlock them all over again per toon.
It's not ironic. Its Apples vs. Oranges. One of them is account wide for all the work you put into the game. One has you put a bunch of work in the game, will apparently be account wide, then you have to open your wallet and pay extra real life money.
Its sleazy. It should just work like CP does.
You don't HAVE to open your wallet lol....you just run to the skyshards and unlock them. You get to CHOOSE how to unlock them on new toons.
Getting Skyshards is not winning. CP 810 people get rekt in PVP daily. Skillpoints are not "winning" anything. So according to you, having the option to spend money on something for access to something in an online game automatically makes something pay to win?
Not at all what I said.
You asked if it was ironic in accordance to CP, and I pointed out that CP was automatically account wide, while Shards are account wide, just as much effort as CP, but only one has a monetary option.
For your idea to be ironic, you'd have to also be able to pay for CP.
See the difference? (I doubt you do...you're more interested in arguing)
And if they charged to unlock CP's per toon in addition to letting people re-farm them all...would that be "Pay To Win"?
CP has a direct correlation with power and stats, so yes, that would be pay to win. Another reason why you shouldn't be comparing them...
And considering we are getting CP's unlocked on all toons for "free", would this be a "Free-To-Win" service? Also, how do new players who just hit level 50 on a brand new account compete in CP PVP or in Vet Dungeons compete against CP 810 toons? And what is ZOS going to do about giving one group of players a distinct advantage to win over another group of players?
Sounds pretty unfair that players can just pay with their time to automatically win.
See, I knew you are just here to argue.
What you're saying doesn't even make sense, nor does it address what I said.
Its still going to cost you time to unlock shards. You're not skipping that part. With shards, it's going to cost you time AND money. That's why what you're saying has no relevance to what I said...you are just trying to argue by talking in circles.
Good luck with that...😆😆
Time *OR* Money. You pick which one you want to spend unlocking Skyshards. Also....how many players play the game currently that spent $0.00 dollars or less?
wrong. Player2 will have same skillpoints, he didnot take skyshards on location, so not obtain SP. and shop didnon open new skyshards.It is P2W, and there is no arguing that. You can argue how harmful it will be to the game.
Let's take a look at an example here. We have two people who have had an identical progress, and they just hit level 50.
Player1: Has enough skills to get the class skills he is using in his build, and some of the class passive skills.
Player2: Has every skill his build requires, all of the passives for his class, all of the relevant passives for armors and weapons, and some of the guild/PvP passives.
Wrong. Progress is character based in ESO for all thing besides CP
Player1 makes a Necro and begins to level without paying, hits level 50 with an alright amount of skillpoints that give them a mostly complete build
Player2 makes a Necro and pays for 200 of the skillpoints their main earned, unlocks every passive as it becomes available, and has more than enough skillpoints for flex skills
It’s the only cash purchase to date that removes the baseline requirement from a progression system.
For horse training and banking/bag upgrades, the baseline requirement is “pay a fee”
For leveling, the baseline requirement is “kill and quest”
For obtaining food and potions, the baseline requirement is actually “purchase or craft it” as it’s available via traders
For respecs, the identical function is in shrines.
Skyshards’ baseline requirement is “explore the world to locate them”, this eliminates that baselines and there is no in-game comparable system that also eliminates that requirement through non-cash methods
If skyshards are allowed, then gear is allowed, then a PTS-template character for Live purchase is allowed, because like every who claim it isn’t P2W says “it’s nothing you can’t grind for”
so.
if i had not time to take all skyshards by all toons becose i work for real money - i mast be looser against palyer who didnot work hard for money and have much free time for game?
if i worker so i cannot save my time? i ALREADY take this skyshards. at the beta\prerelise\relise i take skyshards on my sorc. at morrowind i take on bear-warden. at summerset - i go to my argo wardentank - and this is boring. at my necro - it can begin angry me... and now i have so much time to play> i cant run AGAIN at all of this shards.
and some ppl have wifes, who needs time to...
If you do not play as much, you should not be rewarded as much as someone who plays every day
I say this as someone with a full time job, a girlfriend, and 6 max level toons
The entire gaming industry is on steep decline in quality and ethics, the LAST thing players need for people to cry how much they want to pay for quality of life in a game
Skyshards are a chore, that much I agree on. But these cash shop purchases exploit the failings of design in regards to alts. But instead of redesigning that system, they give cash only “solutions”
I don't believe: "I say this as someone with a full time job, a girlfriend, and 6 max level toons"
Either you have a job that you don't have to work very hard at, or/and you have a "girlfriend" who doesn't care that you spend no time or care on her, you don't have the time.
Of course there is always the possibility that you don't actually play the game. You're one of those lovely folks who think playing the game is simply running around and through things like a maniac to get things done. Or maybe you're one of those rare folks who doesn't need any sleep.
Sorry. I do not believe you.
wrong. Player2 will have same skillpoints, he didnot take skyshards on location, so not obtain SP. and shop didnon open new skyshards.It is P2W, and there is no arguing that. You can argue how harmful it will be to the game.
Let's take a look at an example here. We have two people who have had an identical progress, and they just hit level 50.
Player1: Has enough skills to get the class skills he is using in his build, and some of the class passive skills.
Player2: Has every skill his build requires, all of the passives for his class, all of the relevant passives for armors and weapons, and some of the guild/PvP passives.
Wrong. Progress is character based in ESO for all thing besides CP
Player1 makes a Necro and begins to level without paying, hits level 50 with an alright amount of skillpoints that give them a mostly complete build
Player2 makes a Necro and pays for 200 of the skillpoints their main earned, unlocks every passive as it becomes available, and has more than enough skillpoints for flex skills
It’s the only cash purchase to date that removes the baseline requirement from a progression system.
For horse training and banking/bag upgrades, the baseline requirement is “pay a fee”
For leveling, the baseline requirement is “kill and quest”
For obtaining food and potions, the baseline requirement is actually “purchase or craft it” as it’s available via traders
For respecs, the identical function is in shrines.
Skyshards’ baseline requirement is “explore the world to locate them”, this eliminates that baselines and there is no in-game comparable system that also eliminates that requirement through non-cash methods
If skyshards are allowed, then gear is allowed, then a PTS-template character for Live purchase is allowed, because like every who claim it isn’t P2W says “it’s nothing you can’t grind for”
so.
if i had not time to take all skyshards by all toons becose i work for real money - i mast be looser against palyer who didnot work hard for money and have much free time for game?
if i worker so i cannot save my time? i ALREADY take this skyshards. at the beta\prerelise\relise i take skyshards on my sorc. at morrowind i take on bear-warden. at summerset - i go to my argo wardentank - and this is boring. at my necro - it can begin angry me... and now i have so much time to play> i cant run AGAIN at all of this shards.
and some ppl have wifes, who needs time to...
If you do not play as much, you should not be rewarded as much as someone who plays every day
I say this as someone with a full time job, a girlfriend, and 6 max level toons
The entire gaming industry is on steep decline in quality and ethics, the LAST thing players need for people to cry how much they want to pay for quality of life in a game
Skyshards are a chore, that much I agree on. But these cash shop purchases exploit the failings of design in regards to alts. But instead of redesigning that system, they give cash only “solutions”
I don't believe: "I say this as someone with a full time job, a girlfriend, and 6 max level toons"
Either you have a job that you don't have to work very hard at, or/and you have a "girlfriend" who doesn't care that you spend no time or care on her, you don't have the time.
Of course there is always the possibility that you don't actually play the game. You're one of those lovely folks who think playing the game is simply running around and through things like a maniac to get things done. Or maybe you're one of those rare folks who doesn't need any sleep.
Sorry. I do not believe you.
40 hour work weeks in management, certainly not the hardest but it’s time consuming
Watching movies, playing games, and decidedly less digital entertainment with my girlfriend.
vTrial clears on multiple toons, though still working on the hardmodes beyond AA
Multiple houses decorated
The majority of motifs learned
5.6mil banked
Amazingly, part of being an adult is learning to manage your time and enjoy what you spend time on. I don’t dislike the basics of ESO’s experience. I don’t praise paid solutions to in-game problems like you and others are doing.
If someone scratches up my car, I don’t thank them for the opportunity to pay them to fix it.
Stop acting like they’re doing you a favor by putting up cash-only solutions for problems they are fully capable of solving for free. This company makes a ton of money, they can afford quality of life changes
Pay 2 win definition:
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pay-to-win
Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying.
"Dude, you've spent like 400 bucks on this game so you can beat everyone who hasn't spent any money. Pay-to-win noob!"
Pay 2 win definition:
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pay-to-win
Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying.
"Dude, you've spent like 400 bucks on this game so you can beat everyone who hasn't spent any money. Pay-to-win noob!"
So how is skyshards on store p2w? They are in the game, out won't make any better than me or anyone else just because you have them... Not at all.
Pay 2 win definition:
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pay-to-win
Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying.
"Dude, you've spent like 400 bucks on this game so you can beat everyone who hasn't spent any money. Pay-to-win noob!"
So how is skyshards on store p2w? They are in the game, out won't make any better than me or anyone else just because you have them... Not at all.
and exactly how many hours would it take for you to go and collect each and every one of those skyshards?
and exactly how many lvl's would you increase if you did so?
as I stated earlier - this is p2w BECAUSE it gives you an advantage at the lower lvls.... not at the end game
as I stated earlier - this is p2w BECAUSE it gives you an advantage at the lower lvls.... not at the end game
CleymenZero wrote: »wrong. Player2 will have same skillpoints, he didnot take skyshards on location, so not obtain SP. and shop didnon open new skyshards.It is P2W, and there is no arguing that. You can argue how harmful it will be to the game.
Let's take a look at an example here. We have two people who have had an identical progress, and they just hit level 50.
Player1: Has enough skills to get the class skills he is using in his build, and some of the class passive skills.
Player2: Has every skill his build requires, all of the passives for his class, all of the relevant passives for armors and weapons, and some of the guild/PvP passives.
Wrong. Progress is character based in ESO for all thing besides CP
Player1 makes a Necro and begins to level without paying, hits level 50 with an alright amount of skillpoints that give them a mostly complete build
Player2 makes a Necro and pays for 200 of the skillpoints their main earned, unlocks every passive as it becomes available, and has more than enough skillpoints for flex skills
It’s the only cash purchase to date that removes the baseline requirement from a progression system.
For horse training and banking/bag upgrades, the baseline requirement is “pay a fee”
For leveling, the baseline requirement is “kill and quest”
For obtaining food and potions, the baseline requirement is actually “purchase or craft it” as it’s available via traders
For respecs, the identical function is in shrines.
Skyshards’ baseline requirement is “explore the world to locate them”, this eliminates that baselines and there is no in-game comparable system that also eliminates that requirement through non-cash methods
If skyshards are allowed, then gear is allowed, then a PTS-template character for Live purchase is allowed, because like every who claim it isn’t P2W says “it’s nothing you can’t grind for”
so.
if i had not time to take all skyshards by all toons becose i work for real money - i mast be looser against palyer who didnot work hard for money and have much free time for game?
if i worker so i cannot save my time? i ALREADY take this skyshards. at the beta\prerelise\relise i take skyshards on my sorc. at morrowind i take on bear-warden. at summerset - i go to my argo wardentank - and this is boring. at my necro - it can begin angry me... and now i have so much time to play> i cant run AGAIN at all of this shards.
and some ppl have wifes, who needs time to...
If you do not play as much, you should not be rewarded as much as someone who plays every day
I say this as someone with a full time job, a girlfriend, and 6 max level toons
The entire gaming industry is on steep decline in quality and ethics, the LAST thing players need for people to cry how much they want to pay for quality of life in a game
Skyshards are a chore, that much I agree on. But these cash shop purchases exploit the failings of design in regards to alts. But instead of redesigning that system, they give cash only “solutions”
I don't believe: "I say this as someone with a full time job, a girlfriend, and 6 max level toons"
Either you have a job that you don't have to work very hard at, or/and you have a "girlfriend" who doesn't care that you spend no time or care on her, you don't have the time.
Of course there is always the possibility that you don't actually play the game. You're one of those lovely folks who think playing the game is simply running around and through things like a maniac to get things done. Or maybe you're one of those rare folks who doesn't need any sleep.
Sorry. I do not believe you.
40 hour work weeks in management, certainly not the hardest but it’s time consuming
Watching movies, playing games, and decidedly less digital entertainment with my girlfriend.
vTrial clears on multiple toons, though still working on the hardmodes beyond AA
Multiple houses decorated
The majority of motifs learned
5.6mil banked
Amazingly, part of being an adult is learning to manage your time and enjoy what you spend time on. I don’t dislike the basics of ESO’s experience. I don’t praise paid solutions to in-game problems like you and others are doing.
If someone scratches up my car, I don’t thank them for the opportunity to pay them to fix it.
Stop acting like they’re doing you a favor by putting up cash-only solutions for problems they are fully capable of solving for free. This company makes a ton of money, they can afford quality of life changes
From what I read though, those that vote p2w still can't explain why it's p2w... It's pay to skip not p2w.
...snipped...
People that say it's p2w either don't understand the game properly or don't word it properly. I'm fine with this being defined pay to skip but look at it any way you want it isn't p2w.
I've collected EVERY single skill points in the game with my main. I'm not doing it again. I'm not collecting more skyshards if the price isn't stupid. I've collected more than 1600 skyshards, I'm done...
And people that say it takes 40mins per zone are not doing it right. Slap jaikbreaker, fiord, 3 swift, all divines with a shield and steed mundus. Enjoy Flash Gordon-ing through Tamriel.
Now I have a build and I can do it but I don't want to anymore. I've picked up 1600 skyshards on 14 alts in 2 years
I'm done... Like I said, if the price isn't completely stupid, I'm buying.
@Turelus
Congrations !!!
You have done an excellent job of showing everyone that there are enough (60%+) of the (admittedly forums based) population that may purchase this kind of product from ZoS.
They have obviously got a good idea of what they can potentially do to create more income.
But... YOU CAN!
What exactly do you not get here? You're paying to bypass requirements in a way that cannot be done in game, its P2W in the simplest terms. You pay to achieve something that is impossible to achieve through in-game means
thets not req. i take skyshards on my tank without exploring. just horserunning and TP on guildmates. not quest not dolmens not something else.For the last time It is P2W because it eliminates the most basic requirement of skyshard obtainment: Exploring the world, while providing no in-game comparable system of requirement negation. No other utility based crown purchase in the entirety of the game does this. Even the merchant assistant has in-game comparables wandering the zones, with less functions on the cash purchase too.
With the release of Elsweyr information we now know that players will be able to buy Skyshard SP unlocks on their alt characters.
The way this works is if a player has already unlocked an achievement on one character for a zones Skyshards they will be able to unlock those Skyshards (and SP) on new characters they make via a Crown Store purchase.
Do you think this is P2W and why? Let the great debate happen.
Note: This is all based on in the works information, other than we will be able to buy the SP if we've unlocked it before no details are set in stone.
Edit to add a shameless plug to my Q&A thread for those interested in what I learned at the London press event.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/465498/eso-zos-q-a-information-london-elsweyr-press-event-info
Grianasteri wrote: »It also means new players can completely skip the learning process - that is NOT good for the game or player base as a whole.
thets not req. i take skyshards on my tank without exploring. just horserunning and TP on guildmates. not quest not dolmens not something else.For the last time It is P2W because it eliminates the most basic requirement of skyshard obtainment: Exploring the world, while providing no in-game comparable system of requirement negation. No other utility based crown purchase in the entirety of the game does this. Even the merchant assistant has in-game comparables wandering the zones, with less functions on the cash purchase too.
Grianasteri wrote: »With the release of Elsweyr information we now know that players will be able to buy Skyshard SP unlocks on their alt characters.
The way this works is if a player has already unlocked an achievement on one character for a zones Skyshards they will be able to unlock those Skyshards (and SP) on new characters they make via a Crown Store purchase.
Do you think this is P2W and why? Let the great debate happen.
Note: This is all based on in the works information, other than we will be able to buy the SP if we've unlocked it before no details are set in stone.
Edit to add a shameless plug to my Q&A thread for those interested in what I learned at the London press event.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/465498/eso-zos-q-a-information-london-elsweyr-press-event-info
Given the time and effort I have put into levelling 11 characters, I feel it is totally unacceptable to be able to purchase Skyshard SP and I resent the introduction. The point of the game is to playing through content, story, quests, pledges - dungeons, trials or of course PVP etc. That's the game.
If anyone can simply pay to have fully levelled up characters, that is unequivocally a form of PAY TO WIN. It also means new players can completely skip the learning process - that is NOT good for the game or player base as a whole.