Is Buying Skyshard SP Pay to Win?

Goregrinder

Kel wrote: »

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Goregrinder wrote: »

Kel wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Kel wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Kel wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Paazhahdrimaak wrote: »

Banana wrote: »

Hopefully the other stuff will follow. Skill lines, exploration, mount training.......

Your kind are the problem here

You

Fusozay wrote: »

Paazhahdrimaak wrote: »

This is 100% P2W.

So a fresh character is gonna be able to have every skill point now?

really? quest, dangeon SP sold?

I have 10 characters to champ, farmed lots of SP on all, this is BS that they are accommodating to casuals and unskilled lazy players this much.

It's ironic that you have a problem with easily unlocking Skyshards on multiple characters, but have no problems with have Champion Points shared between all your toons without having to unlock them all over again per toon.

It's not ironic. Its Apples vs. Oranges. One of them is account wide for all the work you put into the game. One has you put a bunch of work in the game, will apparently be account wide, then you have to open your wallet and pay extra real life money.

Its sleazy. It should just work like CP does.

You don't HAVE to open your wallet lol....you just run to the skyshards and unlock them. You get to CHOOSE how to unlock them on new toons.

Getting Skyshards is not winning. CP 810 people get rekt in PVP daily. Skillpoints are not "winning" anything. So according to you, having the option to spend money on something for access to something in an online game automatically makes something pay to win?

Not at all what I said.

You asked if it was ironic in accordance to CP, and I pointed out that CP was automatically account wide, while Shards are account wide, just as much effort as CP, but only one has a monetary option.

For your idea to be ironic, you'd have to also be able to pay for CP.

See the difference? (I doubt you do...you're more interested in arguing)

And if they charged to unlock CP's per toon in addition to letting people re-farm them all...would that be "Pay To Win"?

CP has a direct correlation with power and stats, so yes, that would be pay to win. Another reason why you shouldn't be comparing them...

And considering we are getting CP's unlocked on all toons for "free", would this be a "Free-To-Win" service? Also, how do new players who just hit level 50 on a brand new account compete in CP PVP or in Vet Dungeons compete against CP 810 toons? And what is ZOS going to do about giving one group of players a distinct advantage to win over another group of players?

Sounds pretty unfair that players can just pay with their time to automatically win.

See, I knew you are just here to argue.

What you're saying doesn't even make sense, nor does it address what I said.

Its still going to cost you time to unlock shards. You're not skipping that part. With shards, it's going to cost you time AND money. That's why what you're saying has no relevance to what I said...you are just trying to argue by talking in circles.


Good luck with that...😆😆

Time *OR* Money. You pick which one you want to spend unlocking Skyshards. Also....how many players play the game currently that spent $0.00 dollars or less?

Kel

Yes it's P2W.

Goregrinder wrote: »

show previous quotes

Kel wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Kel wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Kel wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Kel wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Paazhahdrimaak wrote: »

Banana wrote: »

Hopefully the other stuff will follow. Skill lines, exploration, mount training.......

Your kind are the problem here

You

Fusozay wrote: »

Paazhahdrimaak wrote: »

This is 100% P2W.

So a fresh character is gonna be able to have every skill point now?

really? quest, dangeon SP sold?

I have 10 characters to champ, farmed lots of SP on all, this is BS that they are accommodating to casuals and unskilled lazy players this much.

It's ironic that you have a problem with easily unlocking Skyshards on multiple characters, but have no problems with have Champion Points shared between all your toons without having to unlock them all over again per toon.

It's not ironic. Its Apples vs. Oranges. One of them is account wide for all the work you put into the game. One has you put a bunch of work in the game, will apparently be account wide, then you have to open your wallet and pay extra real life money.

Its sleazy. It should just work like CP does.

You don't HAVE to open your wallet lol....you just run to the skyshards and unlock them. You get to CHOOSE how to unlock them on new toons.

Getting Skyshards is not winning. CP 810 people get rekt in PVP daily. Skillpoints are not "winning" anything. So according to you, having the option to spend money on something for access to something in an online game automatically makes something pay to win?

Not at all what I said.

You asked if it was ironic in accordance to CP, and I pointed out that CP was automatically account wide, while Shards are account wide, just as much effort as CP, but only one has a monetary option.

For your idea to be ironic, you'd have to also be able to pay for CP.

See the difference? (I doubt you do...you're more interested in arguing)

And if they charged to unlock CP's per toon in addition to letting people re-farm them all...would that be "Pay To Win"?

CP has a direct correlation with power and stats, so yes, that would be pay to win. Another reason why you shouldn't be comparing them...

And considering we are getting CP's unlocked on all toons for "free", would this be a "Free-To-Win" service? Also, how do new players who just hit level 50 on a brand new account compete in CP PVP or in Vet Dungeons compete against CP 810 toons? And what is ZOS going to do about giving one group of players a distinct advantage to win over another group of players?

Sounds pretty unfair that players can just pay with their time to automatically win.

See, I knew you are just here to argue.

What you're saying doesn't even make sense, nor does it address what I said.

Its still going to cost you time to unlock shards. You're not skipping that part. With shards, it's going to cost you time AND money. That's why what you're saying has no relevance to what I said...you are just trying to argue by talking in circles.


Good luck with that...😆😆

Time *OR* Money. You pick which one you want to spend unlocking Skyshards. Also....how many players play the game currently that spent $0.00 dollars or less?

No..you don't. You dont get to buy shards unless you have the achievement unlocked in game. YOU DO NOT GET TO JUST BUY THEM. You still have to spend your time BEFORE you spend your money.

See how you're wrong now?

Tsar_Gekkou

No it's not P2W.

It's funny how some people think that getting skill points fast will somehow farm all of your sets for you, unlock all your dungeon/trial skins/titles, and level up all of your skills. Skill points are like the pieces of a bike: putting them together doesn't teach you how to ride it or do advanced tricks, so having skill points more readily available doesn't farm vMA/vDSA for you or give you bis gear with a good rotation.

Jhalin

Yes it's P2W.

DenMoria wrote: »

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Jhalin wrote: »

Fusozay wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

Fusozay wrote: »

sionIV wrote: »

It is P2W, and there is no arguing that. You can argue how harmful it will be to the game.

Let's take a look at an example here. We have two people who have had an identical progress, and they just hit level 50.

Player1: Has enough skills to get the class skills he is using in his build, and some of the class passive skills.

Player2: Has every skill his build requires, all of the passives for his class, all of the relevant passives for armors and weapons, and some of the guild/PvP passives.

wrong. Player2 will have same skillpoints, he didnot take skyshards on location, so not obtain SP. and shop didnon open new skyshards.

Wrong. Progress is character based in ESO for all thing besides CP

Player1 makes a Necro and begins to level without paying, hits level 50 with an alright amount of skillpoints that give them a mostly complete build

Player2 makes a Necro and pays for 200 of the skillpoints their main earned, unlocks every passive as it becomes available, and has more than enough skillpoints for flex skills


It’s the only cash purchase to date that removes the baseline requirement from a progression system.

For horse training and banking/bag upgrades, the baseline requirement is “pay a fee”

For leveling, the baseline requirement is “kill and quest”

For obtaining food and potions, the baseline requirement is actually “purchase or craft it” as it’s available via traders

For respecs, the identical function is in shrines.


Skyshards’ baseline requirement is “explore the world to locate them”, this eliminates that baselines and there is no in-game comparable system that also eliminates that requirement through non-cash methods

If skyshards are allowed, then gear is allowed, then a PTS-template character for Live purchase is allowed, because like every who claim it isn’t P2W says “it’s nothing you can’t grind for”

so.
if i had not time to take all skyshards by all toons becose i work for real money - i mast be looser against palyer who didnot work hard for money and have much free time for game?
if i worker so i cannot save my time? i ALREADY take this skyshards. at the beta\prerelise\relise i take skyshards on my sorc. at morrowind i take on bear-warden. at summerset - i go to my argo wardentank - and this is boring. at my necro - it can begin angry me... and now i have so much time to play> i cant run AGAIN at all of this shards.

and some ppl have wifes, who needs time to...

If you do not play as much, you should not be rewarded as much as someone who plays every day

I say this as someone with a full time job, a girlfriend, and 6 max level toons

The entire gaming industry is on steep decline in quality and ethics, the LAST thing players need for people to cry how much they want to pay for quality of life in a game

Skyshards are a chore, that much I agree on. But these cash shop purchases exploit the failings of design in regards to alts. But instead of redesigning that system, they give cash only “solutions”

I don't believe: "I say this as someone with a full time job, a girlfriend, and 6 max level toons"

Either you have a job that you don't have to work very hard at, or/and you have a "girlfriend" who doesn't care that you spend no time or care on her, you don't have the time.

Of course there is always the possibility that you don't actually play the game. You're one of those lovely folks who think playing the game is simply running around and through things like a maniac to get things done. Or maybe you're one of those rare folks who doesn't need any sleep.

Sorry. I do not believe you.

40 hour work weeks in management, certainly not the hardest but it’s time consuming

Watching movies, playing games, and decidedly less digital entertainment with my girlfriend.

vTrial clears on multiple toons, though still working on the hardmodes beyond AA

Multiple houses decorated

The majority of motifs learned

5.6mil banked


Amazingly, part of being an adult is learning to manage your time and enjoy what you spend time on. I don’t dislike the basics of ESO’s experience. I don’t praise paid solutions to in-game problems like you and others are doing.

If someone scratches up my car, I don’t thank them for the opportunity to pay them to fix it.

Stop acting like they’re doing you a favor by putting up cash-only solutions for problems they are fully capable of solving for free. This company makes a ton of money, they can afford quality of life changes

Imza

Yes it's P2W.

If you pay for a shortcut - it's definitely a pay 2 win situation.

Some will use it - some won't.

Some will like it - some won't
.
Is it acceptable? Well - I guess that depends on your point of view.

It will help those pvp only accounts to get all the overland sky shards and it will help those that don't like pvp to get all the sky shards from Cyrodiil and Imperial city.

Personally: I think it is Pay2win BUT I also think it is acceptable or ZoS may lose a lot of customers

CleymenZero

No it's not P2W.

Jhalin wrote: »

show previous quotes

DenMoria wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

Fusozay wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

Fusozay wrote: »

sionIV wrote: »

It is P2W, and there is no arguing that. You can argue how harmful it will be to the game.

Let's take a look at an example here. We have two people who have had an identical progress, and they just hit level 50.

Player1: Has enough skills to get the class skills he is using in his build, and some of the class passive skills.

Player2: Has every skill his build requires, all of the passives for his class, all of the relevant passives for armors and weapons, and some of the guild/PvP passives.

wrong. Player2 will have same skillpoints, he didnot take skyshards on location, so not obtain SP. and shop didnon open new skyshards.

Wrong. Progress is character based in ESO for all thing besides CP

Player1 makes a Necro and begins to level without paying, hits level 50 with an alright amount of skillpoints that give them a mostly complete build

Player2 makes a Necro and pays for 200 of the skillpoints their main earned, unlocks every passive as it becomes available, and has more than enough skillpoints for flex skills


It’s the only cash purchase to date that removes the baseline requirement from a progression system.

For horse training and banking/bag upgrades, the baseline requirement is “pay a fee”

For leveling, the baseline requirement is “kill and quest”

For obtaining food and potions, the baseline requirement is actually “purchase or craft it” as it’s available via traders

For respecs, the identical function is in shrines.


Skyshards’ baseline requirement is “explore the world to locate them”, this eliminates that baselines and there is no in-game comparable system that also eliminates that requirement through non-cash methods

If skyshards are allowed, then gear is allowed, then a PTS-template character for Live purchase is allowed, because like every who claim it isn’t P2W says “it’s nothing you can’t grind for”

so.
if i had not time to take all skyshards by all toons becose i work for real money - i mast be looser against palyer who didnot work hard for money and have much free time for game?
if i worker so i cannot save my time? i ALREADY take this skyshards. at the beta\prerelise\relise i take skyshards on my sorc. at morrowind i take on bear-warden. at summerset - i go to my argo wardentank - and this is boring. at my necro - it can begin angry me... and now i have so much time to play> i cant run AGAIN at all of this shards.

and some ppl have wifes, who needs time to...

If you do not play as much, you should not be rewarded as much as someone who plays every day

I say this as someone with a full time job, a girlfriend, and 6 max level toons

The entire gaming industry is on steep decline in quality and ethics, the LAST thing players need for people to cry how much they want to pay for quality of life in a game

Skyshards are a chore, that much I agree on. But these cash shop purchases exploit the failings of design in regards to alts. But instead of redesigning that system, they give cash only “solutions”

I don't believe: "I say this as someone with a full time job, a girlfriend, and 6 max level toons"

Either you have a job that you don't have to work very hard at, or/and you have a "girlfriend" who doesn't care that you spend no time or care on her, you don't have the time.

Of course there is always the possibility that you don't actually play the game. You're one of those lovely folks who think playing the game is simply running around and through things like a maniac to get things done. Or maybe you're one of those rare folks who doesn't need any sleep.

Sorry. I do not believe you.

40 hour work weeks in management, certainly not the hardest but it’s time consuming

Watching movies, playing games, and decidedly less digital entertainment with my girlfriend.

vTrial clears on multiple toons, though still working on the hardmodes beyond AA

Multiple houses decorated

The majority of motifs learned

5.6mil banked


Amazingly, part of being an adult is learning to manage your time and enjoy what you spend time on. I don’t dislike the basics of ESO’s experience. I don’t praise paid solutions to in-game problems like you and others are doing.

If someone scratches up my car, I don’t thank them for the opportunity to pay them to fix it.

Stop acting like they’re doing you a favor by putting up cash-only solutions for problems they are fully capable of solving for free. This company makes a ton of money, they can afford quality of life changes

From what I read though, those that vote p2w still can't explain why it's p2w... It's pay to skip not p2w.

I have a magplar with virtually NO skill points beyond a few dungeons, level sp, 30 skyshards. That's 100 skill points to be precise.

I can do everything with it, just one caveat... I have to respec it for pvp, for pve, for vMA etc.

So for me, that toon won't need to respec and that's all it'll gain. I have all the passives that make a difference for the situation I spec it for.

Now I'll save time and not much money cause respeccing a toon with 100 sp costs 2k and like you, I have more than 5M in the bank...

So explain to me how this is p2w? I would challenge you to a parse contest on your best character and a series of duels or I would do the same with my 200+ sp magplar and the differences wouldn't go past the racial passives.

People that say it's p2w either don't understand the game properly or don't word it properly. I'm fine with this being defined pay to skip but look at it any way you want it isn't p2w.

I've collected EVERY single skill points in the game with my main. I'm not doing it again. I'm not collecting more skyshards if the price isn't stupid. I've collected more than 1600 skyshards, I'm done...

And people that say it takes 40mins per zone are not doing it right. Slap jaikbreaker, fiord, 3 swift, all divines with a shield and steed mundus. Enjoy Flash Gordon-ing through Tamriel.

Now I have a build and I can do it but I don't want to anymore. I've picked up 1600 skyshards on 14 alts in 2 years
I'm done... Like I said, if the price isn't completely stupid, I'm buying.

Eiagra

No it's not P2W.

Don't really feel that this is P2W. It's a pretty big convenience, though, and depending on price the only set I would get is Cyrodiil. Because screw those shards behind the damned gates. I tackled huge amounts of anxiety getting those once, I'm not looking to repeat that unpleasant experience again.

Imza

Yes it's P2W.

Pay 2 win definition:

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pay-to-win

Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying.

"Dude, you've spent like 400 bucks on this game so you can beat everyone who hasn't spent any money. Pay-to-win noob!"

Imza

Yes it's P2W.

I'm up to page 7 of this discussion and have yet to see one argument that considers how long it takes to get all the skyshards in the game.

The worrying over where to spend the skill points one has in the start and up to very close to the end of the game is a very real decision that has to be made every time you get another skill point.

For those that buy the points.... no worry no decision to be thought about just every time a skill opens up - you have the point to put into it...

That is an unfair advantage....

this is Pay 2 Win

ZonasArch

No it's not P2W.

Imza wrote: »

Pay 2 win definition:

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pay-to-win

Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying.

"Dude, you've spent like 400 bucks on this game so you can beat everyone who hasn't spent any money. Pay-to-win noob!"

So how is skyshards on store p2w? They are in the game, out won't make any better than me or anyone else just because you have them... Not at all.

Imza

Yes it's P2W.

ZonasArch wrote: »

show previous quotes

Imza wrote: »

Pay 2 win definition:

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pay-to-win

Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying.

"Dude, you've spent like 400 bucks on this game so you can beat everyone who hasn't spent any money. Pay-to-win noob!"

So how is skyshards on store p2w? They are in the game, out won't make any better than me or anyone else just because you have them... Not at all.

and exactly how many hours would it take for you to go and collect each and every one of those skyshards?
and exactly how many lvl's would you increase if you did so?

as I stated earlier - this is p2w BECAUSE it gives you an advantage at the lower lvls.... not at the end game

ZonasArch

No it's not P2W.

Imza wrote: »

show previous quotes

ZonasArch wrote: »

Imza wrote: »

Pay 2 win definition:

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pay-to-win

Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying.

"Dude, you've spent like 400 bucks on this game so you can beat everyone who hasn't spent any money. Pay-to-win noob!"

So how is skyshards on store p2w? They are in the game, out won't make any better than me or anyone else just because you have them... Not at all.

and exactly how many hours would it take for you to go and collect each and every one of those skyshards?
and exactly how many lvl's would you increase if you did so?

as I stated earlier - this is p2w BECAUSE it gives you an advantage at the lower lvls.... not at the end game

Doesn't either. You won't have any passives unlocked anyway... Having SP and not having skills to use them doesn't make you stronger... And as you level up, and unlock said skills, you'll have earned enough skill points anyway. I never run short of skill points leveling up as it is, having more won't help me at all.

I honestly don't see any problems.

thorwyn

as I stated earlier - this is p2w BECAUSE it gives you an advantage at the lower lvls.... not at the end game

What do you spend your points on at lower levels? The only thing that comes to mind is passives and the boost you gain by allocating points to them is marginal compared to xp scrolls, proper gear or even a ring of mara.

Imza

Yes it's P2W.

@Turelus

Congrations !!!

You have done an excellent job of showing everyone that there are enough (60%+) of the (admittedly forums based) population that may purchase this kind of product from ZoS.

They have obviously got a good idea of what they can potentially do to create more income.

mairwen85

Other.

With a free addon like mappins, you can get all skyshards (and lore books, Psijic rifts, etc) for all zones in a few hours. Completing delves and public dungeons as you go. This means you can get level 50, and many skillpoint in less than a day. That isn't all skills unlocked, but the ability to learn as soon as. The only people really impacted by this are console players,because without addons, they may feel forced to purchase or do several days/weeks for the same result.

Crown purchase, OR gold at an ingame vendor would be a better implementation.

But, yeah, definitely not P2w in the explicit sense.

Genomic

As often is the case with online arguments, this one is about semantics.

i.e. There is no official definition for pay to win, so everyone is arguing based on their personal definition. In addition, the concept of 'winning' in an MMORPG (outside of PvP) is sort of meaningless.

Because of this I feel the whole 'play to win' argument is something of a red herring. The focus should instead be whether ZOS have gone too far with regards to manipulative over-monetization.

Imza

Yes it's P2W.

the one argument I've not seen (got to page 20 so far) is that this is an achievement based package.

so now you 'will be able to' buy an achievement and it's reward the title "Tamriel Skyshard Hunter" - the color is account bound so you have that already.

darkstar2084

Other.

it is Pay not to lose your mind for the 12th time

Jhalin

Yes it's P2W.

CleymenZero wrote: »

show previous quotes

Jhalin wrote: »

DenMoria wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

Fusozay wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

Fusozay wrote: »

sionIV wrote: »

It is P2W, and there is no arguing that. You can argue how harmful it will be to the game.

Let's take a look at an example here. We have two people who have had an identical progress, and they just hit level 50.

Player1: Has enough skills to get the class skills he is using in his build, and some of the class passive skills.

Player2: Has every skill his build requires, all of the passives for his class, all of the relevant passives for armors and weapons, and some of the guild/PvP passives.

wrong. Player2 will have same skillpoints, he didnot take skyshards on location, so not obtain SP. and shop didnon open new skyshards.

Wrong. Progress is character based in ESO for all thing besides CP

Player1 makes a Necro and begins to level without paying, hits level 50 with an alright amount of skillpoints that give them a mostly complete build

Player2 makes a Necro and pays for 200 of the skillpoints their main earned, unlocks every passive as it becomes available, and has more than enough skillpoints for flex skills


It’s the only cash purchase to date that removes the baseline requirement from a progression system.

For horse training and banking/bag upgrades, the baseline requirement is “pay a fee”

For leveling, the baseline requirement is “kill and quest”

For obtaining food and potions, the baseline requirement is actually “purchase or craft it” as it’s available via traders

For respecs, the identical function is in shrines.


Skyshards’ baseline requirement is “explore the world to locate them”, this eliminates that baselines and there is no in-game comparable system that also eliminates that requirement through non-cash methods

If skyshards are allowed, then gear is allowed, then a PTS-template character for Live purchase is allowed, because like every who claim it isn’t P2W says “it’s nothing you can’t grind for”

so.
if i had not time to take all skyshards by all toons becose i work for real money - i mast be looser against palyer who didnot work hard for money and have much free time for game?
if i worker so i cannot save my time? i ALREADY take this skyshards. at the beta\prerelise\relise i take skyshards on my sorc. at morrowind i take on bear-warden. at summerset - i go to my argo wardentank - and this is boring. at my necro - it can begin angry me... and now i have so much time to play> i cant run AGAIN at all of this shards.

and some ppl have wifes, who needs time to...

If you do not play as much, you should not be rewarded as much as someone who plays every day

I say this as someone with a full time job, a girlfriend, and 6 max level toons

The entire gaming industry is on steep decline in quality and ethics, the LAST thing players need for people to cry how much they want to pay for quality of life in a game

Skyshards are a chore, that much I agree on. But these cash shop purchases exploit the failings of design in regards to alts. But instead of redesigning that system, they give cash only “solutions”

I don't believe: "I say this as someone with a full time job, a girlfriend, and 6 max level toons"

Either you have a job that you don't have to work very hard at, or/and you have a "girlfriend" who doesn't care that you spend no time or care on her, you don't have the time.

Of course there is always the possibility that you don't actually play the game. You're one of those lovely folks who think playing the game is simply running around and through things like a maniac to get things done. Or maybe you're one of those rare folks who doesn't need any sleep.

Sorry. I do not believe you.

40 hour work weeks in management, certainly not the hardest but it’s time consuming

Watching movies, playing games, and decidedly less digital entertainment with my girlfriend.

vTrial clears on multiple toons, though still working on the hardmodes beyond AA

Multiple houses decorated

The majority of motifs learned

5.6mil banked


Amazingly, part of being an adult is learning to manage your time and enjoy what you spend time on. I don’t dislike the basics of ESO’s experience. I don’t praise paid solutions to in-game problems like you and others are doing.

If someone scratches up my car, I don’t thank them for the opportunity to pay them to fix it.

Stop acting like they’re doing you a favor by putting up cash-only solutions for problems they are fully capable of solving for free. This company makes a ton of money, they can afford quality of life changes

From what I read though, those that vote p2w still can't explain why it's p2w... It's pay to skip not p2w.

...snipped...

People that say it's p2w either don't understand the game properly or don't word it properly. I'm fine with this being defined pay to skip but look at it any way you want it isn't p2w.

I've collected EVERY single skill points in the game with my main. I'm not doing it again. I'm not collecting more skyshards if the price isn't stupid. I've collected more than 1600 skyshards, I'm done...

And people that say it takes 40mins per zone are not doing it right. Slap jaikbreaker, fiord, 3 swift, all divines with a shield and steed mundus. Enjoy Flash Gordon-ing through Tamriel.

Now I have a build and I can do it but I don't want to anymore. I've picked up 1600 skyshards on 14 alts in 2 years
I'm done... Like I said, if the price isn't completely stupid, I'm buying.

What exactly do you not get here? You're paying to bypass requirements in a way that cannot be done in game, its P2W in the simplest terms. You pay to achieve something that is impossible to achieve through in-game means

If all it did was reveal locations on your map where all the skyshards are located, it wouldn't be P2W, because the baseline requirement would still be preserved. The same system could also be an in-game feature unlocked with gold.

Unless you're fully prepared to support legendary max CP gear sold for cash, instant max level toons for cash, vMA and perfected weapons for cash, trial skins for cash, titles for cash, then you've got no ground to stand on claiming this isn't P2W.


You can play stupid all you like, but there's no way in hell you could actually justify this as a QoL change made for anyone's benefit but ZOS' sales. By praising this, you praise skill lines being made into tedious grinds so that cash shop unlocks are the simpler way to go. You're encouraging collectable obtainment to be locked behind hours of mindless quests and RNG so the cash shop has more appeal. You're encouraging game studios to design problems with cash shop solutions.


For the last time It is P2W because it eliminates the most basic requirement of skyshard obtainment: Exploring the world, while providing no in-game comparable system of requirement negation. No other utility based crown purchase in the entirety of the game does this. Even the merchant assistant has in-game comparables wandering the zones, with less functions on the cash purchase too.

Had they made this same function available through in-game currencies or any cash-free methods at all, then it wouldn't be P2W, but they chose to give that annoying grind a cash-only "fix" which only serves to fill their pockets with people who don't care if a company sees them as nothing but sheep who will take any treatment and thank them for the opportunity to give more money for solutions that should be free in the first place

Fusozay

No it's not P2W.

Imza wrote: »

@Turelus

Congrations !!!

You have done an excellent job of showing everyone that there are enough (60%+) of the (admittedly forums based) population that may purchase this kind of product from ZoS.

They have obviously got a good idea of what they can potentially do to create more income.

yes
if this P2W game so i want:
SP only for crown
some OP skills only in crown boxes.
perfect item from HM trials at the store.
AND! hi tier best items only for crown.

Fusozay

No it's not P2W.

Jhalin wrote: »

What exactly do you not get here? You're paying to bypass requirements in a way that cannot be done in game, its P2W in the simplest terms. You pay to achieve something that is impossible to achieve through in-game means

But... YOU CAN!
just go and take it. take skyshards without any bying. only Skyshard bloked - it on the DLC if you didnot pay...

oops! who byed DLC - have MORE skyshards!!!! more ckillpoints! more skill lines!!! P2W!!!

Fusozay

No it's not P2W.

Jhalin wrote: »

For the last time It is P2W because it eliminates the most basic requirement of skyshard obtainment: Exploring the world, while providing no in-game comparable system of requirement negation. No other utility based crown purchase in the entirety of the game does this. Even the merchant assistant has in-game comparables wandering the zones, with less functions on the cash purchase too.

thets not req. i take skyshards on my tank without exploring. just horserunning and TP on guildmates. not quest not dolmens not something else.

Imza

Yes it's P2W.

ok - after 6 (hours according to my spouse) of reading this forum thread - with a pause for meals etc - I have come to the conclusion that it doesn't really matter what we think.

There will always be several different opinions on this matter.

As long as someone is prepared to pay for this kind of package - ZoS (and other companies) will cater to them.

After all ZoS is a company that must make money, and if they are not increasing their profit at ALL times they are not making money.

The main thing I think everyone missed here, is that there is no WIN in an MMORPG.

P.S. language changes all the time as do the meaning of words, terms and cliches. Gay used to mean happy, P2W also means pay to skip/bypass and pay for convenience.

Grianasteri

Yes it's P2W.

Turelus wrote: »

With the release of Elsweyr information we now know that players will be able to buy Skyshard SP unlocks on their alt characters.

The way this works is if a player has already unlocked an achievement on one character for a zones Skyshards they will be able to unlock those Skyshards (and SP) on new characters they make via a Crown Store purchase.

Do you think this is P2W and why? Let the great debate happen.

Note: This is all based on in the works information, other than we will be able to buy the SP if we've unlocked it before no details are set in stone.

Edit to add a shameless plug to my Q&A thread for those interested in what I learned at the London press event.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/465498/eso-zos-q-a-information-london-elsweyr-press-event-info

Given the time and effort I have put into levelling 11 characters, I feel it is totally unacceptable to be able to purchase Skyshard SP and I resent the introduction. The point of the game is to playing through content, story, quests, pledges - dungeons, trials or of course PVP etc. That's the game.

If anyone can simply pay to have fully levelled up characters, that is unequivocally a form of PAY TO WIN. It also means new players can completely skip the learning process - that is NOT good for the game or player base as a whole.

ErMurazor

Alot of opinions here. The fact is you can get every skyshard in game without spending a dime. Well, you have to buy the DLCs and upgrades or sub for ESO+. With that said i wont share my opinion because its just that an opinion.

Imza

Yes it's P2W.

@Turelus

I have one question that I've not seen asked here in this thread.

If I have ESO+ and collect every skyshard in the game.
Then I unsubscribe from ESO+.
Can I purchase the skyshard package for the areas I no longer have access to? (ie Imperial City)

Fusozay

No it's not P2W.

Grianasteri wrote: »

It also means new players can completely skip the learning process - that is NOT good for the game or player base as a whole.

it`s not. new player cannot buy skyshards achievments.

Jhalin

Yes it's P2W.

Fusozay wrote: »

show previous quotes

Jhalin wrote: »

For the last time It is P2W because it eliminates the most basic requirement of skyshard obtainment: Exploring the world, while providing no in-game comparable system of requirement negation. No other utility based crown purchase in the entirety of the game does this. Even the merchant assistant has in-game comparables wandering the zones, with less functions on the cash purchase too.

thets not req. i take skyshards on my tank without exploring. just horserunning and TP on guildmates. not quest not dolmens not something else.

By what definition does exploring the world (even at the speed of light using player teleports) not qualify as exploring the world?

There is no system that allows you to visit a merchant and obtain all skyshards ever encountered without taking another step

This is P2W, it’s complete ignorance to claim otherwise. If you don’t care about faulty game systems being exploited to make sales for “solutions” instead of the issue being fixed, then you’re part of the problem with this industry

Ardaghion

No it's not P2W.

I agree with those that say it is pay for convenience, not pay to win. You aren't winning anything by getting skyshards unlocked, especially since you'll need to have the zone achievement unlocked on another character.

Even then, getting the skyshards unlocked doesn't do anything for you unless you have the XP in a skill to apply the points. This might make it easier for those that want to grind from 1-50 in a day or under.

Personally, I like going out and getting the skyshards. I haven't had the time to gather them all even on my main, I'm missing a few here and there in the vanilla zones and have none in the Cyrodiil or IC areas. I'm missing 122 shards in total.

I have no intention of depriving my other characters of the experience of looking for the skyshards themselves. I'm on Xbox so I don't have any add-ons, although I do have the iPhone app that lets me find them easier. But I won't be paying for the convenience, I just find it more fun to wander around, finding the skyshards and everything else along the journey.

DenMoria

Yes it's P2W.

Grianasteri wrote: »

show previous quotes

Turelus wrote: »

With the release of Elsweyr information we now know that players will be able to buy Skyshard SP unlocks on their alt characters.

The way this works is if a player has already unlocked an achievement on one character for a zones Skyshards they will be able to unlock those Skyshards (and SP) on new characters they make via a Crown Store purchase.

Do you think this is P2W and why? Let the great debate happen.

Note: This is all based on in the works information, other than we will be able to buy the SP if we've unlocked it before no details are set in stone.

Edit to add a shameless plug to my Q&A thread for those interested in what I learned at the London press event.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/465498/eso-zos-q-a-information-london-elsweyr-press-event-info

Given the time and effort I have put into levelling 11 characters, I feel it is totally unacceptable to be able to purchase Skyshard SP and I resent the introduction. The point of the game is to playing through content, story, quests, pledges - dungeons, trials or of course PVP etc. That's the game.

If anyone can simply pay to have fully levelled up characters, that is unequivocally a form of PAY TO WIN. It also means new players can completely skip the learning process - that is NOT good for the game or player base as a whole.

Since you have to have collected the skyshards on at least one of your prior characters before you could even use them on the current character (similar to CP), then your argument about new players being fully leveled does not hold water.

Myself, I certainly could never find the time to fully level 11 characters. I simply do not have the time.

I suppose the argument could hold water if you were in PvP, but, frankly, you can't "win" at ESO, unless you do PvP, so, in my case, having CP & points available is really moot.

Besides, you would still need to level up your character in order to make the ability to apply the skill points available in the first place, you're really not getting those skill points right up front.

It would be a minor advantage at best.

A level 10 character is still a level 10 character and only has so many skill-point slots they can use.