Is Buying Skyshard SP Pay to Win?

heaven13

Jhalin wrote: »

belial5221_ESO wrote: »

P2W actually means ... buying an item not availiable to be attained ingame, that gives players a clear advantage over other players which cannot afford to spend real money on ingame items. Paying for anything you can get ingame, through actually playing, is just there for people who think they have to be first/best/coolest at everything,and not P2W,maybe P2BABR(pay to boast about being rich) lol.

If paying money means you get to circumvent gameplay requirements, that’s P2W

By your definition putting vMA weapons in the store wouldn’t be P2W

I mean, technically it wouldn't especially if you had to have Stormproof on one character first.

DenMoria

Yes it's P2W.

Fusozay wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

Fusozay wrote: »

sionIV wrote: »

It is P2W, and there is no arguing that. You can argue how harmful it will be to the game.

Let's take a look at an example here. We have two people who have had an identical progress, and they just hit level 50.

Player1: Has enough skills to get the class skills he is using in his build, and some of the class passive skills.

Player2: Has every skill his build requires, all of the passives for his class, all of the relevant passives for armors and weapons, and some of the guild/PvP passives.

wrong. Player2 will have same skillpoints, he didnot take skyshards on location, so not obtain SP. and shop didnon open new skyshards.

Wrong. Progress is character based in ESO for all thing besides CP

Player1 makes a Necro and begins to level without paying, hits level 50 with an alright amount of skillpoints that give them a mostly complete build

Player2 makes a Necro and pays for 200 of the skillpoints their main earned, unlocks every passive as it becomes available, and has more than enough skillpoints for flex skills


It’s the only cash purchase to date that removes the baseline requirement from a progression system.

For horse training and banking/bag upgrades, the baseline requirement is “pay a fee”

For leveling, the baseline requirement is “kill and quest”

For obtaining food and potions, the baseline requirement is actually “purchase or craft it” as it’s available via traders

For respecs, the identical function is in shrines.


Skyshards’ baseline requirement is “explore the world to locate them”, this eliminates that baselines and there is no in-game comparable system that also eliminates that requirement through non-cash methods

If skyshards are allowed, then gear is allowed, then a PTS-template character for Live purchase is allowed, because like every who claim it isn’t P2W says “it’s nothing you can’t grind for”

so.
if i had not time to take all skyshards by all toons becose i work for real money - i mast be looser against palyer who didnot work hard for money and have much free time for game?
if i worker so i cannot save my time? i ALREADY take this skyshards. at the beta\prerelise\relise i take skyshards on my sorc. at morrowind i take on bear-warden. at summerset - i go to my argo wardentank - and this is boring. at my necro - it can begin angry me... and now i have so much time to play> i cant run AGAIN at all of this shards.

and some ppl have wifes, who needs time to...

A bit judgmental, but, essentially, those of us who have lives outside of the game and cannot dedicate hundreds of ours on grinding away for skyshards, sets, materials, and on and on are indeed losers and not "real" ESO players.

I've been working on a way to never have to sleep again so that I can spend 8-10 hours working, 3 hours commuting, 3 hours with my family and other obligations and still have 4 or 5 hours a day to dedicate to the grind.

I'll find a way. I know I will.

BaylorCorvette

No it's not P2W.

All I know is that my time is (literally) more valuable to me, so if I can buy some of the zones then all the better.

Paying for a special / unique gear set that is unattainable in other (in game) ways is one thing but paying for something that you've already done on a character is something else. Especially when what you're paying for is minimizing horse ride simulator 2019.

Fusozay

No it's not P2W.

DenMoria wrote: »

A bit judgmental, but, essentially, those of us who have lives outside of the game and cannot dedicate hundreds of ours on grinding away for skyshards, sets, materials, and on and on are indeed losers and not "real" ESO players.

so thats is a main argument all "its p2w" orators...

if you have money but not time - you are not a "real eso players"...

so, i must not play and pay to this game, but looks another game? in Russia we have some war gaming games, may be there my money will be more like to take...

and... if i wanna to grinding gear - i will go again to grinding gear game, i know one.

Goregrinder

MooseKnuckles88 wrote: »

IMHO, call it what you want, but I can't see how it's not p2w. You make a character, go to crown store and 'pay' x crown amount in exchange for skyshards(skills which aid your character). Nothing to be ashamed about if you'll be exploiting it, but it's still p2w. Just how I see it.

So in the "Pay To Win" you have the "Pay" portion nailed down, since you are paying money for crowns....but where is the "Win" portion? You're not gaining anything over someone who doesn't pay real money. Time is not an advantage to win, it is a convenience. People who power level to 50 vs people who casually quest until level 50 aren't guaranteed to win. One just got to the destination faster than the other, that is the only distinction.

So where is the "win" portion? Are Skyshards only available to unlock via the crown store? If so, then I would agree, that meets the criteria for "win", since you wouldn't be able to obtain them without paying real money. But that's not the case....you can spend an hour in a zone and unlock all the skyshards without paying a single dime other than the cost of the base game.

Paazhahdrimaak

Yes it's P2W.

This is 100% P2W.

So a fresh character is gonna be able to have every skill point now? PvP is gonna be more broken than ever.

Fusozay

No it's not P2W.

Paazhahdrimaak wrote: »

This is 100% P2W.

So a fresh character is gonna be able to have every skill point now?

really? quest, dangeon SP sold?

Paazhahdrimaak

Yes it's P2W.

Banana wrote: »

Hopefully the other stuff will follow. Skill lines, exploration, mount training.......

Your kind are the problem here

You

Fusozay wrote: »

Paazhahdrimaak wrote: »

This is 100% P2W.

So a fresh character is gonna be able to have every skill point now?

really? quest, dangeon SP sold?

I have 10 characters to champ, farmed lots of SP on all, this is BS that they are accommodating to casuals and unskilled lazy players this much.

gabriebe

Other.

I don't think that paying for Skyshards is in itself Pay2Win.

That being said, once other features are introduced (like buying Psijic 10, Dawnbreaker 10, Mages Guild 10, etc...), it will be very close to that as it provides an incentive for the game designers to make the grinding as annoying as possible. Grinding Psijic is already so tedious one has to wonder if it's not on purpose.

Fusozay

No it's not P2W.

Paazhahdrimaak wrote: »

I have 10 characters to champ, farmed lots of SP on all, this is BS that they are accommodating to casuals and unskilled lazy players this much.

ZOS selling this product. not less, not more. all what they sell by crown - we can take whithout pay. just time. so i can be lazy and just buy some staff. becose i have money and can. you may not pay for that staff. at the end you will have all same staff without paying. so there is p2w? what did i won by paying against you?

Paazhahdrimaak

Yes it's P2W.

ALL OF THIS IS COMPLETE HORSE S***

How could any of you want this? Play that damn game! Earn what you have.
Paying to catch up is pathetic.

The only way this payoff for skyshards can acceptable is you cant buy them on characters until you hit lvl 50, and gives you a permanent unchangeable title to shame them and let everyone know that how they got it.

Paazhahdrimaak

Yes it's P2W.

Don't any of you have a since of pride when it comes to your characters?

Actually playing the damn game?

Conquering new challenges on them, pushing through the crap like the rest of them.

Not just pulling out your wallet and getting what you want.

No work for all the reward. P2W

DenMoria

Yes it's P2W.

Paazhahdrimaak wrote: »

Don't any of you have a since of pride when it comes to your characters?

Actually playing the damn game?

Conquering new challenges on them, pushing through the crap like the rest of them.

Not just pulling out your wallet and getting what you want.

No work for all the reward. P2W

Says someone who is willing to waste their time on a game.

I have money and I've done it before so I'll buy.

I have no pride in a video game character.

It's a video game.

And it's an MMO. Even lower on the totem pole than a regular video game.

Jhalin

Yes it's P2W.

Fusozay wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

Fusozay wrote: »

sionIV wrote: »

It is P2W, and there is no arguing that. You can argue how harmful it will be to the game.

Let's take a look at an example here. We have two people who have had an identical progress, and they just hit level 50.

Player1: Has enough skills to get the class skills he is using in his build, and some of the class passive skills.

Player2: Has every skill his build requires, all of the passives for his class, all of the relevant passives for armors and weapons, and some of the guild/PvP passives.

wrong. Player2 will have same skillpoints, he didnot take skyshards on location, so not obtain SP. and shop didnon open new skyshards.

Wrong. Progress is character based in ESO for all thing besides CP

Player1 makes a Necro and begins to level without paying, hits level 50 with an alright amount of skillpoints that give them a mostly complete build

Player2 makes a Necro and pays for 200 of the skillpoints their main earned, unlocks every passive as it becomes available, and has more than enough skillpoints for flex skills


It’s the only cash purchase to date that removes the baseline requirement from a progression system.

For horse training and banking/bag upgrades, the baseline requirement is “pay a fee”

For leveling, the baseline requirement is “kill and quest”

For obtaining food and potions, the baseline requirement is actually “purchase or craft it” as it’s available via traders

For respecs, the identical function is in shrines.


Skyshards’ baseline requirement is “explore the world to locate them”, this eliminates that baselines and there is no in-game comparable system that also eliminates that requirement through non-cash methods

If skyshards are allowed, then gear is allowed, then a PTS-template character for Live purchase is allowed, because like every who claim it isn’t P2W says “it’s nothing you can’t grind for”

so.
if i had not time to take all skyshards by all toons becose i work for real money - i mast be looser against palyer who didnot work hard for money and have much free time for game?
if i worker so i cannot save my time? i ALREADY take this skyshards. at the beta\prerelise\relise i take skyshards on my sorc. at morrowind i take on bear-warden. at summerset - i go to my argo wardentank - and this is boring. at my necro - it can begin angry me... and now i have so much time to play> i cant run AGAIN at all of this shards.

and some ppl have wifes, who needs time to...

If you do not play as much, you should not be rewarded as much as someone who plays every day

I say this as someone with a full time job, a girlfriend, and 6 max level toons

The entire gaming industry is on steep decline in quality and ethics, the LAST thing players need for people to cry how much they want to pay for quality of life in a game

Skyshards are a chore, that much I agree on. But these cash shop purchases exploit the failings of design in regards to alts. But instead of redesigning that system, they give cash only “solutions”

DenMoria

Yes it's P2W.

Jhalin wrote: »

Fusozay wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

Fusozay wrote: »

sionIV wrote: »

It is P2W, and there is no arguing that. You can argue how harmful it will be to the game.

Let's take a look at an example here. We have two people who have had an identical progress, and they just hit level 50.

Player1: Has enough skills to get the class skills he is using in his build, and some of the class passive skills.

Player2: Has every skill his build requires, all of the passives for his class, all of the relevant passives for armors and weapons, and some of the guild/PvP passives.

wrong. Player2 will have same skillpoints, he didnot take skyshards on location, so not obtain SP. and shop didnon open new skyshards.

Wrong. Progress is character based in ESO for all thing besides CP

Player1 makes a Necro and begins to level without paying, hits level 50 with an alright amount of skillpoints that give them a mostly complete build

Player2 makes a Necro and pays for 200 of the skillpoints their main earned, unlocks every passive as it becomes available, and has more than enough skillpoints for flex skills


It’s the only cash purchase to date that removes the baseline requirement from a progression system.

For horse training and banking/bag upgrades, the baseline requirement is “pay a fee”

For leveling, the baseline requirement is “kill and quest”

For obtaining food and potions, the baseline requirement is actually “purchase or craft it” as it’s available via traders

For respecs, the identical function is in shrines.


Skyshards’ baseline requirement is “explore the world to locate them”, this eliminates that baselines and there is no in-game comparable system that also eliminates that requirement through non-cash methods

If skyshards are allowed, then gear is allowed, then a PTS-template character for Live purchase is allowed, because like every who claim it isn’t P2W says “it’s nothing you can’t grind for”

so.
if i had not time to take all skyshards by all toons becose i work for real money - i mast be looser against palyer who didnot work hard for money and have much free time for game?
if i worker so i cannot save my time? i ALREADY take this skyshards. at the beta\prerelise\relise i take skyshards on my sorc. at morrowind i take on bear-warden. at summerset - i go to my argo wardentank - and this is boring. at my necro - it can begin angry me... and now i have so much time to play> i cant run AGAIN at all of this shards.

and some ppl have wifes, who needs time to...

If you do not play as much, you should not be rewarded as much as someone who plays every day

I say this as someone with a full time job, a girlfriend, and 6 max level toons

The entire gaming industry is on steep decline in quality and ethics, the LAST thing players need for people to cry how much they want to pay for quality of life in a game

Skyshards are a chore, that much I agree on. But these cash shop purchases exploit the failings of design in regards to alts. But instead of redesigning that system, they give cash only “solutions”

I don't believe: "I say this as someone with a full time job, a girlfriend, and 6 max level toons"

Either you have a job that you don't have to work very hard at, or/and you have a "girlfriend" who doesn't care that you spend no time or care on her, you don't have the time.

Of course there is always the possibility that you don't actually play the game. You're one of those lovely folks who think playing the game is simply running around and through things like a maniac to get things done. Or maybe you're one of those rare folks who doesn't need any sleep.

Sorry. I do not believe you.

Paazhahdrimaak

Yes it's P2W.

DenMoria wrote: »

Paazhahdrimaak wrote: »

Don't any of you have a since of pride when it comes to your characters?

Actually playing the damn game?

Conquering new challenges on them, pushing through the crap like the rest of them.

Not just pulling out your wallet and getting what you want.

No work for all the reward. P2W

Says someone who is willing to waste their time on a game.

I have money and I've done it before so I'll buy.

I have no pride in a video game character.

It's a video game.

And it's an MMO. Even lower on the totem pole than a regular video game.

@DenMoria
Wtf? Why do you even play this game than?

Ive loved the Elder Scrolls games for 17+ years now. People get in fights over something as meaningless as sports so I stand up for one of the few things in this world that brings me joy.

No one is winning this fight but It doesnt sound like you enjoy this game at all. If your not willing to spend time playing it.
Go play fortnight for your instant gratification

CleymenZero

No it's not P2W.

Universe wrote: »

Skyshard packs, monster helm items and skill lines in the crown store etc. is P2W.
The moment it lands in the crown store, I will safely label ESO as P2W game.

Some shortcuts are fine, like upgrading the Riding Speed/Stamina/Capacity and reducing crafting research time, but when the shortcuts are directly related to combat effectiveness and hard earned achievements, it crosses a thin line to the P2W model.
While players will not get exclusive special weapons/power from the new crown store features, they will utilize the crown store to get stronger and skip a lot of normal gameplay & achievements.

It does not affect combat effectiveness at all. It does force you to respec often. I finished vCR+1 and vHoF HM last week, both puggish runs (good players many of whom never played together). I think the +1 was a 56k for the weekly and the vHoF was a 123k. I was doing my share of DPS.

I respec it to PvP and I am very functional. Better than average I'll say but I'm not any better on my other magplar which has 208 skill points. I just don't have to respec the other.

The hard-earned achievements are needed to purchase them in the first place, I don't see why this keeps being repeated over and over again. I don't see the problem in skipping parts of the game you've done once or twice. If you have a good memory, you can recite the "cutscenes" after doing it the second time... I don't need that kind of knowledge....

I'll keep repeating it, it does not affect combat effectiveness, it's QoL. Saves me time because respecs cost next to nothing on this one.

Of course, you know my position on this issue. To me, it's not a question of p2w or not but more a question of "How much".

DenMoria

Yes it's P2W.

Paazhahdrimaak wrote: »

DenMoria wrote: »

Paazhahdrimaak wrote: »

Don't any of you have a since of pride when it comes to your characters?

Actually playing the damn game?

Conquering new challenges on them, pushing through the crap like the rest of them.

Not just pulling out your wallet and getting what you want.

No work for all the reward. P2W

Says someone who is willing to waste their time on a game.

I have money and I've done it before so I'll buy.

I have no pride in a video game character.

It's a video game.

And it's an MMO. Even lower on the totem pole than a regular video game.

@DenMoria
Wtf? Why do you even play this game than?

Ive loved the Elder Scrolls games for 17+ years now. People get in fights over something as meaningless as sports so I stand up for one of the few things in this world that brings me joy.

No one is winning this fight but It doesnt sound like you enjoy this game at all. If your not willing to spend time playing it.
Go play fortnight for your instant gratification

I have been playing TES since Morrowind and have loved them immeasurably. I have spent, over the last couple of decades many hundreds and thousands of hours playing.

I have many hundreds of hours in ESO over the last 5 years and have enjoyed it very much, BUT, I have also realized that it is a grindy MMO that takes an immeasurable amoutn of time that I simply do not wish to waste all my time on.

For those who are willing to dedicate thousands of hours to grind their way through character after character to achieve what they want, great.

But that is not me and I am tired of being criticized and not being considered a "real" player because I find that there are so many more important things in life than a "video game".

I am a REAL player. I am a DEDICATED player. I am a VIDEO-GAMER.

Period. No one will tell me otherwise and to all the tools that insist otherwise, I will simply tell them to go take a flyin' leap and say exactly what I want.

If they don't like it then that's on them.

Besides, it's an MMO, the lowest form of video game that is nothing more than a low-budget, cheap way for companies to make money hand over fist for years on end until they just drop it and move on. ZoS is moving on. There was even an article today about that.

I love ESO, but it is nothing more than a diversion and most certainly not even in the same running as Beth TES games.

CleymenZero

No it's not P2W.

Paazhahdrimaak wrote: »

This is 100% P2W.

So a fresh character is gonna be able to have every skill point now? PvP is gonna be more broken than ever.

Whether he's destroying you on his main or destroying you on a new character, he is still destroying you. It's not like the player gets instantly more powerful, his character could potentially become more functional but as I've said and shown in this post, You can do everything with 100 skill points. You just have to respec all the time which is annoying.

It is pay for convenience.

Goregrinder

Paazhahdrimaak wrote: »

Banana wrote: »

Hopefully the other stuff will follow. Skill lines, exploration, mount training.......

Your kind are the problem here

You

Fusozay wrote: »

Paazhahdrimaak wrote: »

This is 100% P2W.

So a fresh character is gonna be able to have every skill point now?

really? quest, dangeon SP sold?

I have 10 characters to champ, farmed lots of SP on all, this is BS that they are accommodating to casuals and unskilled lazy players this much.

It's ironic that you have a problem with easily unlocking Skyshards on multiple characters, but have no problems with have Champion Points shared between all your toons without having to unlock them all over again per toon.

Kel

Yes it's P2W.

Goregrinder wrote: »

Paazhahdrimaak wrote: »

Banana wrote: »

Hopefully the other stuff will follow. Skill lines, exploration, mount training.......

Your kind are the problem here

You

Fusozay wrote: »

Paazhahdrimaak wrote: »

This is 100% P2W.

So a fresh character is gonna be able to have every skill point now?

really? quest, dangeon SP sold?

I have 10 characters to champ, farmed lots of SP on all, this is BS that they are accommodating to casuals and unskilled lazy players this much.

It's ironic that you have a problem with easily unlocking Skyshards on multiple characters, but have no problems with have Champion Points shared between all your toons without having to unlock them all over again per toon.

It's not ironic. Its Apples vs. Oranges. One of them is account wide for all the work you put into the game. One has you put a bunch of work in the game, will apparently be account wide, then you have to open your wallet and pay extra real life money.

Its sleazy. It should just work like CP does if you're talking about unlocking them account wide, without the extra milking.

DenMoria

Yes it's P2W.

Goregrinder wrote: »

Paazhahdrimaak wrote: »

Banana wrote: »

Hopefully the other stuff will follow. Skill lines, exploration, mount training.......

Your kind are the problem here

You

Fusozay wrote: »

Paazhahdrimaak wrote: »

This is 100% P2W.

So a fresh character is gonna be able to have every skill point now?

really? quest, dangeon SP sold?

I have 10 characters to champ, farmed lots of SP on all, this is BS that they are accommodating to casuals and unskilled lazy players this much.

It's ironic that you have a problem with easily unlocking Skyshards on multiple characters, but have no problems with have Champion Points shared between all your toons without having to unlock them all over again per toon.

I wonder about that. I'm working my magsorc up to 160 right now. So, does that mean I'll have all those points available on an new toon or only after I get that new toon up to 50+?

ZonasArch

No it's not P2W.

Paazhahdrimaak wrote: »

Don't any of you have a since of pride when it comes to your characters?

Actually playing the damn game?

Conquering new challenges on them, pushing through the crap like the rest of them.

Not just pulling out your wallet and getting what you want.

No work for all the reward. P2W

How angry... O.o

Also, you called "paying to catch up". Make up your mind, will you?

Damn, the hypocritical people... P2w hysteria is at Large here...

DenMoria

Yes it's P2W.

ZonasArch wrote: »

Paazhahdrimaak wrote: »

Don't any of you have a since of pride when it comes to your characters?

Actually playing the damn game?

Conquering new challenges on them, pushing through the crap like the rest of them.

Not just pulling out your wallet and getting what you want.

No work for all the reward. P2W

How angry... O.o

Also, you called "paying to catch up". Make up your mind, will you?

Damn, the hypocritical people... P2w hysteria is at Large here...

If I could P2W, I would, but I can't, so I won't.

Goregrinder

Kel wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Paazhahdrimaak wrote: »

Banana wrote: »

Hopefully the other stuff will follow. Skill lines, exploration, mount training.......

Your kind are the problem here

You

Fusozay wrote: »

Paazhahdrimaak wrote: »

This is 100% P2W.

So a fresh character is gonna be able to have every skill point now?

really? quest, dangeon SP sold?

I have 10 characters to champ, farmed lots of SP on all, this is BS that they are accommodating to casuals and unskilled lazy players this much.

It's ironic that you have a problem with easily unlocking Skyshards on multiple characters, but have no problems with have Champion Points shared between all your toons without having to unlock them all over again per toon.

It's not ironic. Its Apples vs. Oranges. One of them is account wide for all the work you put into the game. One has you put a bunch of work in the game, will apparently be account wide, then you have to open your wallet and pay extra real life money.

Its sleazy. It should just work like CP does.

You don't HAVE to open your wallet lol....you just run to the skyshards and unlock them. You get to CHOOSE how to unlock them on new toons.

Getting Skyshards is not winning. CP 810 people get rekt in PVP daily. Skillpoints are not "winning" anything. So according to you, having the option to spend money on something for access to something in an online game automatically makes something pay to win?

Kel

Yes it's P2W.

Goregrinder wrote: »

Kel wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Paazhahdrimaak wrote: »

Banana wrote: »

Hopefully the other stuff will follow. Skill lines, exploration, mount training.......

Your kind are the problem here

You

Fusozay wrote: »

Paazhahdrimaak wrote: »

This is 100% P2W.

So a fresh character is gonna be able to have every skill point now?

really? quest, dangeon SP sold?

I have 10 characters to champ, farmed lots of SP on all, this is BS that they are accommodating to casuals and unskilled lazy players this much.

It's ironic that you have a problem with easily unlocking Skyshards on multiple characters, but have no problems with have Champion Points shared between all your toons without having to unlock them all over again per toon.

It's not ironic. Its Apples vs. Oranges. One of them is account wide for all the work you put into the game. One has you put a bunch of work in the game, will apparently be account wide, then you have to open your wallet and pay extra real life money.

Its sleazy. It should just work like CP does.

You don't HAVE to open your wallet lol....you just run to the skyshards and unlock them. You get to CHOOSE how to unlock them on new toons.

Getting Skyshards is not winning. CP 810 people get rekt in PVP daily. Skillpoints are not "winning" anything. So according to you, having the option to spend money on something for access to something in an online game automatically makes something pay to win?

Not at all what I said.

You asked if it was ironic in accordance to CP, and I pointed out that CP was automatically account wide, while Shards are account wide, just as much effort as CP, but only one has a monetary option.

For your idea to be ironic, you'd have to also be able to pay for CP.

See the difference? (I doubt you do...you're more interested in arguing)

Goregrinder

Kel wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Kel wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Paazhahdrimaak wrote: »

Banana wrote: »

Hopefully the other stuff will follow. Skill lines, exploration, mount training.......

Your kind are the problem here

You

Fusozay wrote: »

Paazhahdrimaak wrote: »

This is 100% P2W.

So a fresh character is gonna be able to have every skill point now?

really? quest, dangeon SP sold?

I have 10 characters to champ, farmed lots of SP on all, this is BS that they are accommodating to casuals and unskilled lazy players this much.

It's ironic that you have a problem with easily unlocking Skyshards on multiple characters, but have no problems with have Champion Points shared between all your toons without having to unlock them all over again per toon.

It's not ironic. Its Apples vs. Oranges. One of them is account wide for all the work you put into the game. One has you put a bunch of work in the game, will apparently be account wide, then you have to open your wallet and pay extra real life money.

Its sleazy. It should just work like CP does.

You don't HAVE to open your wallet lol....you just run to the skyshards and unlock them. You get to CHOOSE how to unlock them on new toons.

Getting Skyshards is not winning. CP 810 people get rekt in PVP daily. Skillpoints are not "winning" anything. So according to you, having the option to spend money on something for access to something in an online game automatically makes something pay to win?

Not at all what I said.

You asked if it was ironic in accordance to CP, and I pointed out that CP was automatically account wide, while Shards are account wide, just as much effort as CP, but only one has a monetary option.

For your idea to be ironic, you'd have to also be able to pay for CP.

See the difference? (I doubt you do...you're more interested in arguing)

And if they charged to unlock CP's per toon in addition to letting people re-farm them all...would that be "Pay To Win"?

Kel

Yes it's P2W.

Goregrinder wrote: »

Kel wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Kel wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Paazhahdrimaak wrote: »

Banana wrote: »

Hopefully the other stuff will follow. Skill lines, exploration, mount training.......

Your kind are the problem here

You

Fusozay wrote: »

Paazhahdrimaak wrote: »

This is 100% P2W.

So a fresh character is gonna be able to have every skill point now?

really? quest, dangeon SP sold?

I have 10 characters to champ, farmed lots of SP on all, this is BS that they are accommodating to casuals and unskilled lazy players this much.

It's ironic that you have a problem with easily unlocking Skyshards on multiple characters, but have no problems with have Champion Points shared between all your toons without having to unlock them all over again per toon.

It's not ironic. Its Apples vs. Oranges. One of them is account wide for all the work you put into the game. One has you put a bunch of work in the game, will apparently be account wide, then you have to open your wallet and pay extra real life money.

Its sleazy. It should just work like CP does.

You don't HAVE to open your wallet lol....you just run to the skyshards and unlock them. You get to CHOOSE how to unlock them on new toons.

Getting Skyshards is not winning. CP 810 people get rekt in PVP daily. Skillpoints are not "winning" anything. So according to you, having the option to spend money on something for access to something in an online game automatically makes something pay to win?

Not at all what I said.

You asked if it was ironic in accordance to CP, and I pointed out that CP was automatically account wide, while Shards are account wide, just as much effort as CP, but only one has a monetary option.

For your idea to be ironic, you'd have to also be able to pay for CP.

See the difference? (I doubt you do...you're more interested in arguing)

And if they charged to unlock CP's per toon in addition to letting people re-farm them all...would that be "Pay To Win"?

CP has a direct correlation with power and stats, so yes, that would be pay to win. Another reason why you shouldn't be comparing them...

Goregrinder

Kel wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Kel wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Kel wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Paazhahdrimaak wrote: »

Banana wrote: »

Hopefully the other stuff will follow. Skill lines, exploration, mount training.......

Your kind are the problem here

You

Fusozay wrote: »

Paazhahdrimaak wrote: »

This is 100% P2W.

So a fresh character is gonna be able to have every skill point now?

really? quest, dangeon SP sold?

I have 10 characters to champ, farmed lots of SP on all, this is BS that they are accommodating to casuals and unskilled lazy players this much.

It's ironic that you have a problem with easily unlocking Skyshards on multiple characters, but have no problems with have Champion Points shared between all your toons without having to unlock them all over again per toon.

It's not ironic. Its Apples vs. Oranges. One of them is account wide for all the work you put into the game. One has you put a bunch of work in the game, will apparently be account wide, then you have to open your wallet and pay extra real life money.

Its sleazy. It should just work like CP does.

You don't HAVE to open your wallet lol....you just run to the skyshards and unlock them. You get to CHOOSE how to unlock them on new toons.

Getting Skyshards is not winning. CP 810 people get rekt in PVP daily. Skillpoints are not "winning" anything. So according to you, having the option to spend money on something for access to something in an online game automatically makes something pay to win?

Not at all what I said.

You asked if it was ironic in accordance to CP, and I pointed out that CP was automatically account wide, while Shards are account wide, just as much effort as CP, but only one has a monetary option.

For your idea to be ironic, you'd have to also be able to pay for CP.

See the difference? (I doubt you do...you're more interested in arguing)

And if they charged to unlock CP's per toon in addition to letting people re-farm them all...would that be "Pay To Win"?

CP has a direct correlation with power and stats, so yes, that would be pay to win. Another reason why you shouldn't be comparing them...

And considering we are getting CP's unlocked on all toons for "free", would this be a "Free-To-Win" service? Also, how do new players who just hit level 50 on a brand new account compete in CP PVP or in Vet Dungeons compete against CP 810 toons? And what is ZOS going to do about giving one group of players a distinct advantage to win over another group of players?

Sounds pretty unfair that players can just pay with their time to automatically win.

Kel

Yes it's P2W.

Goregrinder wrote: »

Kel wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Kel wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Kel wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Paazhahdrimaak wrote: »

Banana wrote: »

Hopefully the other stuff will follow. Skill lines, exploration, mount training.......

Your kind are the problem here

You

Fusozay wrote: »

Paazhahdrimaak wrote: »

This is 100% P2W.

So a fresh character is gonna be able to have every skill point now?

really? quest, dangeon SP sold?

I have 10 characters to champ, farmed lots of SP on all, this is BS that they are accommodating to casuals and unskilled lazy players this much.

It's ironic that you have a problem with easily unlocking Skyshards on multiple characters, but have no problems with have Champion Points shared between all your toons without having to unlock them all over again per toon.

It's not ironic. Its Apples vs. Oranges. One of them is account wide for all the work you put into the game. One has you put a bunch of work in the game, will apparently be account wide, then you have to open your wallet and pay extra real life money.

Its sleazy. It should just work like CP does.

You don't HAVE to open your wallet lol....you just run to the skyshards and unlock them. You get to CHOOSE how to unlock them on new toons.

Getting Skyshards is not winning. CP 810 people get rekt in PVP daily. Skillpoints are not "winning" anything. So according to you, having the option to spend money on something for access to something in an online game automatically makes something pay to win?

Not at all what I said.

You asked if it was ironic in accordance to CP, and I pointed out that CP was automatically account wide, while Shards are account wide, just as much effort as CP, but only one has a monetary option.

For your idea to be ironic, you'd have to also be able to pay for CP.

See the difference? (I doubt you do...you're more interested in arguing)

And if they charged to unlock CP's per toon in addition to letting people re-farm them all...would that be "Pay To Win"?

CP has a direct correlation with power and stats, so yes, that would be pay to win. Another reason why you shouldn't be comparing them...

And considering we are getting CP's unlocked on all toons for "free", would this be a "Free-To-Win" service? Also, how do new players who just hit level 50 on a brand new account compete in CP PVP or in Vet Dungeons compete against CP 810 toons? And what is ZOS going to do about giving one group of players a distinct advantage to win over another group of players?

Sounds pretty unfair that players can just pay with their time to automatically win.

See, I knew you are just here to argue.

What you're saying doesn't even make sense, nor does it address what I said.

Its still going to cost you time to unlock shards. You're not skipping that part. With shards, it's going to cost you time AND money. That's why what you're saying has no relevance to what I said...you are just trying to argue by talking in circles.


Good luck with that...😆😆