PLEASE HELP MAGBLADE!

fred4

Iskiab wrote: »

Yea, penetration is the best dps stat in both pve and pvp. It’s the best right up until the target has 0 resists and past that has no effect. I think it’s 660 resists per % damage.

Which dummy did you use? I think they have different resist levels but can’t recall. Why so many light attacks in your rotation btw?

What’s good about war maiden is it’s heavy so you can go WM chest and legs with a light monster set. Chest gives the most resists so wearing a heavy chest has advantages.

A friend tells me penetration in PvP now works up to -5K (!), but I have not tested that myself. Also, pen in PvE is not comparable. I believe a dummy is considered level 50 and it takes 500 pen for 1%. A CP160+ player is considered level 66 (level 50 + 16 vet ranks in the old system) and it takes 660 pen against a player for 1%.

Penetration being the best stat is a consequence of most sources of penetration being good value and because it is one of the few things that will amplify procs and poisons. On the other hand, getting pen from CP is bad value. It takes 6 1/2 points to get 660 pen = 1%. It takes 3 points for your first 1% from Master At Arms, and 2 further points for 2%. You have to ramp that up quite a bit, before pen from CP becomes valuable. Even Elemental Expert is better value. The only upside is that pen buffs all your attacks, light / heavy / skill / DOT.

mav1234

Iskiab wrote: »

What’s good about war maiden is it’s heavy so you can go WM chest and legs with a light monster set. Chest gives the most resists so wearing a heavy chest has advantages.

WM is light.

Datthaw

Iskiab wrote: »

Yea, penetration is the best dps stat in both pve and pvp. It’s the best right up until the target has 0 resists and past that has no effect. I think it’s 660 resists per % damage.

Which dummy did you use? I think they have different resist levels but can’t recall. Why so many light attacks in your rotation btw?

What’s good about war maiden is it’s heavy so you can go WM chest and legs with a light monster set. Chest gives the most resists so wearing a heavy chest has advantages.

? Warmaiden is a light set

Iskiab

Oh yea, I was thinking rattlecage. Rattle cage is nice if you use unstoppable pots because the only one that’s decent if you want magicka is the Unstoppable - Magicka - Crit chance.

HowlKimchi

I commend those trying to make melee magblade work. I've tried, and since I also have a stamblade, I can't help but compare the playstyles. 2h or dw Melee Magblade for me is like a weaker version of stamblade in all aspects.

Using destro staff and concealed weapon as a "melee" magblade is decent though. In BGs when im up against a lot of DKs, i switch swallow soul with concealed and slot another hot (rapid regen) on my bars.

kaithuzar

IMO I still think the situation is like this:
“put things in order of what you need”
For me it’s:
1) penetration
2) mag sustain
3) anti-bleed/anti-meta (health recovery)
4) decent resistances
5) decent stam pool/recovery

& if I can build multiple of those things such as:
Amberplasm or willows path or shacklebreaker, then it’s at least a decent build.
The problem with spinners is that it’s almost too good & so there is a lack of build diversity. This constantly has me going back & forth on using it because I just personally don’t like “cookie cutter” builds.
The only options for getting spinner-like pen are:
4 piece bonus from some flame set I don’t remember- eww 4 piece, not going to happen

Destro ability I’m too tired to remember- probably not going to work for my 2h sword resto playstyle

Lover mundus- great

Sharpened main hand - great

5 light armor - great

Piercing mark - eh maybe

Cp - at least some (my guess would be min 50, I run ~70-80)

So with spinner I run 16k pen, the max w/using a skill is like 18k, so on my non-spinner builds I use around 15k.
Problem is, if I say my top 2 things I care about are sustain & penetration, that means my mundus is highly likely to reflect one of those (although I’ve really been wanting to try stead I haven’t yet)
So for me personally putting more cp into pen to buff all attacks & at a potentially higher amount of damage, makes more sense to me; but if you incorporate something like mark target then it may be less worth it.

I understand the argument for incombat vs out of combat recovery but I don’t have any problems perma-cloaking with 2.1k+ recovery & breton or seducer or infused reduce cost glyph

I’ve never been good at lich & thought bright throat wasn’t worth the hype (yes I tried it with the correct drink)

I really wish we had more cc. I miss old agony so much. Sure, if you’re part of the nb healer meta kudos to you, but I’m never going to purposely use a skill in open world combat that is going to drain my health for ANY buff. It’s just not smart when you play open world as you could be hit from any angle at any time from multiple people.
Due to the lag time on assassin’s will/merciless hitting, it would be prime use case for having “old agony” back; I used to combo it with meteor & I miss it.

Zevrro

fred4 wrote: »

Zevrro wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

Hmm. I am by no means brilliant, but my melee magblade remains the character with which I get the most kills. (I don't really play my stamblade much. Not used to it.)

I wish I could give up Forward Momentum, but I can't. You use it for a consistent heal to activate Troll King, when wearing that set. You use it, if you get taloned or snared. It's cheaper than a dodge roll and you need the immunity. The fact that it's down to 4 seconds doesn't matter that much, since you only use it reactively to get back up to speed and into cloak.

I actually use Swallow Soul on the resto bar in addition to Concealed on the 2H bar. It is quite ineffective as a damage dealing skill in my build, but it is a heal and my preferred spammable for IC bosses. It also helps to have a ranged option in those unfocused before prime time fights, where everyone is just strewn around a keep. I love those and I don't like builds that are entirely melee.

Zevrro wrote: »

I don't really see the benefit of the melee magblade playstyle since you lose healing and you have to fight up close on a class with very low mobility.

I don't get this comment. Low mobility? Certainly not magblade. You mean the DK? I fight DKs. It's one of the main reasons I play melee.

I was talking about dual wield melee magblades. If you run 2h then you get mobility from forward momentum but for some reason almost all of the melee magblades I see are running dual wield. I haven't see many players using forward momentum on magblade since they decreased the duration.

That's bound to change. DW made sense from an enchants point of view, especially if you were running Torug's Pact. Makes no sense now.

fred4 wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

Hmm. I am by no means brilliant, but my melee magblade remains the character with which I get the most kills. (I don't really play my stamblade much. Not used to it.)

I wish I could give up Forward Momentum, but I can't. You use it for a consistent heal to activate Troll King, when wearing that set. You use it, if you get taloned or snared. It's cheaper than a dodge roll and you need the immunity. The fact that it's down to 4 seconds doesn't matter that much, since you only use it reactively to get back up to speed and into cloak.

I actually use Swallow Soul on the resto bar in addition to Concealed on the 2H bar. It is quite ineffective as a damage dealing skill in my build, but it is a heal and my preferred spammable for IC bosses. It also helps to have a ranged option in those unfocused before prime time fights, where everyone is just strewn around a keep. I love those and I don't like builds that are entirely melee.

Zevrro wrote: »

I don't really see the benefit of the melee magblade playstyle since you lose healing and you have to fight up close on a class with very low mobility.

I don't get this comment. Low mobility? Certainly not magblade. You mean the DK? I fight DKs. It's one of the main reasons I play melee.

What’s your spec? I might try it. I don’t think I’ve beaten a magDK in a duel... ever.

Btw, it’s not just DKs who can reflect. It’s DKs, Wardens, and anyone who uses S&B.

I agree about magblade maneuverability too. That’s what makes it fun even if it’s not effective.

Well, for what it's worth:

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=127467

This is an open world spec. While I have beaten my mag DK friend, who is roughly as skilled as myself, I don't expect to kill everyone with this.

It is a fairly high sustain, cloaking speed build that works in CP and no CP. Your defense is that speed. If the DK talons you, you can try hitting them, but if they do too much damage you Fear, Forward Momentum and run off. You are basically so fast that I've given up on the shade. If the opponent uses a detection potion things can get a little tricky, but you still have a good chance to move out of range.

I do not aim to have the greatest burst with this. If I did, I would run Spinner instead of Skooma Smuggler, or perhaps Auroran's Thunder, and I would incorporate Merciless and, perhaps, Degeneration. As it stands, I don't even bother with Major Sorcery. Instead I prefer Immovability / Detection / Magicka potions. This build is about staying on top of and finishing people with Concealed Weapon after the burst, which is why I prefer that potion. The burst typically comes from Cloak -> Lotus Fan -> Incap + guaranteed Caluurion proc hitting at the same time. Plus Zaan, if you're lucky. Skooma Smuggler is as much of a help in offense as it is in defense. It allows you to stay on top of dodge rolling opponents who you will eventually hit.

Inbetween ultis I'm typically in and out of cloak, while I try to stun people with Concealed and get another Caluurion or Zaan proc now and again. The speed obviously synergises with Zaan. Alternatively I just hit people from range, building ultimate. Sometimes switching to range can work, especially if the opponent is a vampire. The main reason for the infused prismatic resto is boss farming in IC, though. Feel free to use a different enchant.

Stamina sustain is limited, which is why Deep Thoughts is in the build. One break free, roll dodge and Forward Momentum is about all you have. When low on stamina (or magicka) I hide behind a tree and use that skill. Thankfully it is very viable to disappear with the speed you have.

This build can quite easily be countered. Caluurion is reflectable and has a 1 second activation time, even when used at point blank range. If you are too predictable, people will dodge roll it and a DK who is really clued in might keep their wings up. In practice this is perhaps easier said than done, outside of a duel, or most people are simply not that clued in. DKs have a tendency to only use wings reactively, when attacked by obvious ranged attacks. It's an expensive skill for them after all.

Some obligatory small print: This build is capable of perma-cloaking outside of combat and near perma-cloaking in combat. I was talking to Jeezye in game, and he asked whether I get into prolonged fights. I do. It is not a pure ganking spec and not nearly the highest damage you can get with this type of build. The attraction to this playstyle is that the speed and cloak gives you a lot of control. If you want to view that as resulting in a series of ganks, so be it, but I have to say that this patch has enabled me to get higher health and that 1.15K health regen and that has improved it's ability to brawl just a little. Still, you would be stupid not to run away and recover your stamina when it's down and you don't have the Immovability potion ready.

Anyway, back to talking about sustain. Be a Breton. Let me repeat that: Be a Breton. This build is made for it. Note the two cost reduction rings, one Infused? That is what you need. Do not go for more magicka recovery and, for gods sake, don't wear Lich nor Bright Throat's. This build is squishy. Speed and cloak are your defenses. What do you need to sustain cloak? Atro mundus (but using Steed this patch, cause we can), drinks and cost reduction. NOT magicka recovery. Let me repeat that: NOT magicka recovery. The reason is that, while you are out of combat, your magicka recovery is calculated differently. It is typically higher than in combat, but only based on drinks and mundus. The stat sheet does not show you this, unless you use Harven's Extended Stats addon, which shows your "Magicka Recovery Idle". I suppose it depends on playstyle, but if you are like me, you can and will run around in cloak a lot and the game engine will consider you out of combat half the time. That's why you build for out of combat sustain as well as in combat.

How are you playing magblade without merciless resolve?

Koensol

ChefZero wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

The problem you have is assuming NBs are stealth based as a rule, which is fundamentally false. The dsrk cloak change is was very good and thematically in line with NBs regardless of your personal opinion.

Yes but ZOS started something with this change and didn't finish it. Dark Cloak lacks synergies with the the kit or the passives.

Not really. It activates armor passives and is increased in strength with the slotting of more shadow abilities. The heal amount is also amplified by the slotting of more siphoning skills. Also, it is totally not mandatory to use heavy armor with it. Just use perfected blackrose resto with ward ally and keep benefitting from light armor crit and cost reduction. The healing you will get from this if you pair it with 1 or 2 more hots is incredible. If I 1v1 someone and he bursts me to 25% health, 1 ward ally + dark cloak + refreshing path with light attack weaving while having siphoning strikes up will take you to full health in the matter of 3 seconds.

This skill, together with healthy offering have been incredible additions to the class. It opens up build possibilities outside the generic cloaktard proc burst builds.

I totally agree on funnel health being garbage now btw. They made it a pve heal ability only, and gone is the real group utility of dmg + healing. I dreaded this change when I read it on path notes and still think it was a big mistake.

LordTareq

Iskiab wrote: »

Which dummy did you use? I think they have different resist levels but can’t recall. Why so many light attacks in your rotation btw?

The veteran target skeleton, the one with 18k resistance. Light attack are animation cancelled by concealed strike, which is animation cancelled by bash. So light attack into concealed is basically a single attack. I just wanted to compare the sets using a simple easily repeatable rotation.

HowlKimchi

Just wanna reiterate that the high recovery magblade is doing super well for me right now. Try it out guys.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=126732

ChefZero

Koensol wrote: »

ChefZero wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

The problem you have is assuming NBs are stealth based as a rule, which is fundamentally false. The dsrk cloak change is was very good and thematically in line with NBs regardless of your personal opinion.

Yes but ZOS started something with this change and didn't finish it. Dark Cloak lacks synergies with the the kit or the passives.

Not really. It activates armor passives and is increased in strength with the slotting of more shadow abilities. The heal amount is also amplified by the slotting of more siphoning skills. Also, it is totally not mandatory to use heavy armor with it. Just use perfected blackrose resto with ward ally and keep benefitting from light armor crit and cost reduction. The healing you will get from this if you pair it with 1 or 2 more hots is incredible. If I 1v1 someone and he bursts me to 25% health, 1 ward ally + dark cloak + refreshing path with light attack weaving while having siphoning strikes up will take you to full health in the matter of 3 seconds.

This skill, together with healthy offering have been incredible additions to the class. It opens up build possibilities outside the generic cloaktard proc burst builds.

I totally agree on funnel health being garbage now btw. They made it a pve heal ability only, and gone is the real group utility of dmg + healing. I dreaded this change when I read it on path notes and still think it was a big mistake.

Well I have to be more specific. Of course there these passives like in every skilltree of every class. But I'm more talking about crossover passives like synergies to sustain, damage or utility.

I played a successful Dark Cloak build a week ago and DC itself is good of course. But I have abandoned it because Concealed Weapon is just a joke on a DC build and well if play melee without procsets you still have to use Merciless Resolve or you won't do any serious damage.

Datthaw

Zevrro wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

Zevrro wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

Hmm. I am by no means brilliant, but my melee magblade remains the character with which I get the most kills. (I don't really play my stamblade much. Not used to it.)

I wish I could give up Forward Momentum, but I can't. You use it for a consistent heal to activate Troll King, when wearing that set. You use it, if you get taloned or snared. It's cheaper than a dodge roll and you need the immunity. The fact that it's down to 4 seconds doesn't matter that much, since you only use it reactively to get back up to speed and into cloak.

I actually use Swallow Soul on the resto bar in addition to Concealed on the 2H bar. It is quite ineffective as a damage dealing skill in my build, but it is a heal and my preferred spammable for IC bosses. It also helps to have a ranged option in those unfocused before prime time fights, where everyone is just strewn around a keep. I love those and I don't like builds that are entirely melee.

Zevrro wrote: »

I don't really see the benefit of the melee magblade playstyle since you lose healing and you have to fight up close on a class with very low mobility.

I don't get this comment. Low mobility? Certainly not magblade. You mean the DK? I fight DKs. It's one of the main reasons I play melee.

I was talking about dual wield melee magblades. If you run 2h then you get mobility from forward momentum but for some reason almost all of the melee magblades I see are running dual wield. I haven't see many players using forward momentum on magblade since they decreased the duration.

That's bound to change. DW made sense from an enchants point of view, especially if you were running Torug's Pact. Makes no sense now.

fred4 wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

Hmm. I am by no means brilliant, but my melee magblade remains the character with which I get the most kills. (I don't really play my stamblade much. Not used to it.)

I wish I could give up Forward Momentum, but I can't. You use it for a consistent heal to activate Troll King, when wearing that set. You use it, if you get taloned or snared. It's cheaper than a dodge roll and you need the immunity. The fact that it's down to 4 seconds doesn't matter that much, since you only use it reactively to get back up to speed and into cloak.

I actually use Swallow Soul on the resto bar in addition to Concealed on the 2H bar. It is quite ineffective as a damage dealing skill in my build, but it is a heal and my preferred spammable for IC bosses. It also helps to have a ranged option in those unfocused before prime time fights, where everyone is just strewn around a keep. I love those and I don't like builds that are entirely melee.

Zevrro wrote: »

I don't really see the benefit of the melee magblade playstyle since you lose healing and you have to fight up close on a class with very low mobility.

I don't get this comment. Low mobility? Certainly not magblade. You mean the DK? I fight DKs. It's one of the main reasons I play melee.

What’s your spec? I might try it. I don’t think I’ve beaten a magDK in a duel... ever.

Btw, it’s not just DKs who can reflect. It’s DKs, Wardens, and anyone who uses S&B.

I agree about magblade maneuverability too. That’s what makes it fun even if it’s not effective.

Well, for what it's worth:

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=127467

This is an open world spec. While I have beaten my mag DK friend, who is roughly as skilled as myself, I don't expect to kill everyone with this.

It is a fairly high sustain, cloaking speed build that works in CP and no CP. Your defense is that speed. If the DK talons you, you can try hitting them, but if they do too much damage you Fear, Forward Momentum and run off. You are basically so fast that I've given up on the shade. If the opponent uses a detection potion things can get a little tricky, but you still have a good chance to move out of range.

I do not aim to have the greatest burst with this. If I did, I would run Spinner instead of Skooma Smuggler, or perhaps Auroran's Thunder, and I would incorporate Merciless and, perhaps, Degeneration. As it stands, I don't even bother with Major Sorcery. Instead I prefer Immovability / Detection / Magicka potions. This build is about staying on top of and finishing people with Concealed Weapon after the burst, which is why I prefer that potion. The burst typically comes from Cloak -> Lotus Fan -> Incap + guaranteed Caluurion proc hitting at the same time. Plus Zaan, if you're lucky. Skooma Smuggler is as much of a help in offense as it is in defense. It allows you to stay on top of dodge rolling opponents who you will eventually hit.

Inbetween ultis I'm typically in and out of cloak, while I try to stun people with Concealed and get another Caluurion or Zaan proc now and again. The speed obviously synergises with Zaan. Alternatively I just hit people from range, building ultimate. Sometimes switching to range can work, especially if the opponent is a vampire. The main reason for the infused prismatic resto is boss farming in IC, though. Feel free to use a different enchant.

Stamina sustain is limited, which is why Deep Thoughts is in the build. One break free, roll dodge and Forward Momentum is about all you have. When low on stamina (or magicka) I hide behind a tree and use that skill. Thankfully it is very viable to disappear with the speed you have.

This build can quite easily be countered. Caluurion is reflectable and has a 1 second activation time, even when used at point blank range. If you are too predictable, people will dodge roll it and a DK who is really clued in might keep their wings up. In practice this is perhaps easier said than done, outside of a duel, or most people are simply not that clued in. DKs have a tendency to only use wings reactively, when attacked by obvious ranged attacks. It's an expensive skill for them after all.

Some obligatory small print: This build is capable of perma-cloaking outside of combat and near perma-cloaking in combat. I was talking to Jeezye in game, and he asked whether I get into prolonged fights. I do. It is not a pure ganking spec and not nearly the highest damage you can get with this type of build. The attraction to this playstyle is that the speed and cloak gives you a lot of control. If you want to view that as resulting in a series of ganks, so be it, but I have to say that this patch has enabled me to get higher health and that 1.15K health regen and that has improved it's ability to brawl just a little. Still, you would be stupid not to run away and recover your stamina when it's down and you don't have the Immovability potion ready.

Anyway, back to talking about sustain. Be a Breton. Let me repeat that: Be a Breton. This build is made for it. Note the two cost reduction rings, one Infused? That is what you need. Do not go for more magicka recovery and, for gods sake, don't wear Lich nor Bright Throat's. This build is squishy. Speed and cloak are your defenses. What do you need to sustain cloak? Atro mundus (but using Steed this patch, cause we can), drinks and cost reduction. NOT magicka recovery. Let me repeat that: NOT magicka recovery. The reason is that, while you are out of combat, your magicka recovery is calculated differently. It is typically higher than in combat, but only based on drinks and mundus. The stat sheet does not show you this, unless you use Harven's Extended Stats addon, which shows your "Magicka Recovery Idle". I suppose it depends on playstyle, but if you are like me, you can and will run around in cloak a lot and the game engine will consider you out of combat half the time. That's why you build for out of combat sustain as well as in combat.

How are you playing magblade without merciless resolve?

Mercy's usefulness really depends on for you attack tbh. The more of an elusive burst toon you play the more it loses its value imo. On my calu blade the targets I take I can kill with my combo, no mercy needed, I use it as an 8% damage buff. It does come in handy when I'm zerg surfing or playing with some buddies because I can swallow soul weave on my resto bar. But for the most part I'm not out of clock long enough to build a proc.

HowlKimchi

Datthaw wrote: »

Zevrro wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

Zevrro wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

Hmm. I am by no means brilliant, but my melee magblade remains the character with which I get the most kills. (I don't really play my stamblade much. Not used to it.)

I wish I could give up Forward Momentum, but I can't. You use it for a consistent heal to activate Troll King, when wearing that set. You use it, if you get taloned or snared. It's cheaper than a dodge roll and you need the immunity. The fact that it's down to 4 seconds doesn't matter that much, since you only use it reactively to get back up to speed and into cloak.

I actually use Swallow Soul on the resto bar in addition to Concealed on the 2H bar. It is quite ineffective as a damage dealing skill in my build, but it is a heal and my preferred spammable for IC bosses. It also helps to have a ranged option in those unfocused before prime time fights, where everyone is just strewn around a keep. I love those and I don't like builds that are entirely melee.

Zevrro wrote: »

I don't really see the benefit of the melee magblade playstyle since you lose healing and you have to fight up close on a class with very low mobility.

I don't get this comment. Low mobility? Certainly not magblade. You mean the DK? I fight DKs. It's one of the main reasons I play melee.

I was talking about dual wield melee magblades. If you run 2h then you get mobility from forward momentum but for some reason almost all of the melee magblades I see are running dual wield. I haven't see many players using forward momentum on magblade since they decreased the duration.

That's bound to change. DW made sense from an enchants point of view, especially if you were running Torug's Pact. Makes no sense now.

fred4 wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

Hmm. I am by no means brilliant, but my melee magblade remains the character with which I get the most kills. (I don't really play my stamblade much. Not used to it.)

I wish I could give up Forward Momentum, but I can't. You use it for a consistent heal to activate Troll King, when wearing that set. You use it, if you get taloned or snared. It's cheaper than a dodge roll and you need the immunity. The fact that it's down to 4 seconds doesn't matter that much, since you only use it reactively to get back up to speed and into cloak.

I actually use Swallow Soul on the resto bar in addition to Concealed on the 2H bar. It is quite ineffective as a damage dealing skill in my build, but it is a heal and my preferred spammable for IC bosses. It also helps to have a ranged option in those unfocused before prime time fights, where everyone is just strewn around a keep. I love those and I don't like builds that are entirely melee.

Zevrro wrote: »

I don't really see the benefit of the melee magblade playstyle since you lose healing and you have to fight up close on a class with very low mobility.

I don't get this comment. Low mobility? Certainly not magblade. You mean the DK? I fight DKs. It's one of the main reasons I play melee.

What’s your spec? I might try it. I don’t think I’ve beaten a magDK in a duel... ever.

Btw, it’s not just DKs who can reflect. It’s DKs, Wardens, and anyone who uses S&B.

I agree about magblade maneuverability too. That’s what makes it fun even if it’s not effective.

Well, for what it's worth:

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=127467

This is an open world spec. While I have beaten my mag DK friend, who is roughly as skilled as myself, I don't expect to kill everyone with this.

It is a fairly high sustain, cloaking speed build that works in CP and no CP. Your defense is that speed. If the DK talons you, you can try hitting them, but if they do too much damage you Fear, Forward Momentum and run off. You are basically so fast that I've given up on the shade. If the opponent uses a detection potion things can get a little tricky, but you still have a good chance to move out of range.

I do not aim to have the greatest burst with this. If I did, I would run Spinner instead of Skooma Smuggler, or perhaps Auroran's Thunder, and I would incorporate Merciless and, perhaps, Degeneration. As it stands, I don't even bother with Major Sorcery. Instead I prefer Immovability / Detection / Magicka potions. This build is about staying on top of and finishing people with Concealed Weapon after the burst, which is why I prefer that potion. The burst typically comes from Cloak -> Lotus Fan -> Incap + guaranteed Caluurion proc hitting at the same time. Plus Zaan, if you're lucky. Skooma Smuggler is as much of a help in offense as it is in defense. It allows you to stay on top of dodge rolling opponents who you will eventually hit.

Inbetween ultis I'm typically in and out of cloak, while I try to stun people with Concealed and get another Caluurion or Zaan proc now and again. The speed obviously synergises with Zaan. Alternatively I just hit people from range, building ultimate. Sometimes switching to range can work, especially if the opponent is a vampire. The main reason for the infused prismatic resto is boss farming in IC, though. Feel free to use a different enchant.

Stamina sustain is limited, which is why Deep Thoughts is in the build. One break free, roll dodge and Forward Momentum is about all you have. When low on stamina (or magicka) I hide behind a tree and use that skill. Thankfully it is very viable to disappear with the speed you have.

This build can quite easily be countered. Caluurion is reflectable and has a 1 second activation time, even when used at point blank range. If you are too predictable, people will dodge roll it and a DK who is really clued in might keep their wings up. In practice this is perhaps easier said than done, outside of a duel, or most people are simply not that clued in. DKs have a tendency to only use wings reactively, when attacked by obvious ranged attacks. It's an expensive skill for them after all.

Some obligatory small print: This build is capable of perma-cloaking outside of combat and near perma-cloaking in combat. I was talking to Jeezye in game, and he asked whether I get into prolonged fights. I do. It is not a pure ganking spec and not nearly the highest damage you can get with this type of build. The attraction to this playstyle is that the speed and cloak gives you a lot of control. If you want to view that as resulting in a series of ganks, so be it, but I have to say that this patch has enabled me to get higher health and that 1.15K health regen and that has improved it's ability to brawl just a little. Still, you would be stupid not to run away and recover your stamina when it's down and you don't have the Immovability potion ready.

Anyway, back to talking about sustain. Be a Breton. Let me repeat that: Be a Breton. This build is made for it. Note the two cost reduction rings, one Infused? That is what you need. Do not go for more magicka recovery and, for gods sake, don't wear Lich nor Bright Throat's. This build is squishy. Speed and cloak are your defenses. What do you need to sustain cloak? Atro mundus (but using Steed this patch, cause we can), drinks and cost reduction. NOT magicka recovery. Let me repeat that: NOT magicka recovery. The reason is that, while you are out of combat, your magicka recovery is calculated differently. It is typically higher than in combat, but only based on drinks and mundus. The stat sheet does not show you this, unless you use Harven's Extended Stats addon, which shows your "Magicka Recovery Idle". I suppose it depends on playstyle, but if you are like me, you can and will run around in cloak a lot and the game engine will consider you out of combat half the time. That's why you build for out of combat sustain as well as in combat.

How are you playing magblade without merciless resolve?

Mercy's usefulness really depends on for you attack tbh. The more of an elusive burst toon you play the more it loses its value imo. On my calu blade the targets I take I can kill with my combo, no mercy needed, I use it as an 8% damage buff. It does come in handy when I'm zerg surfing or playing with some buddies because I can swallow soul weave on my resto bar. But for the most part I'm not out of clock long enough to build a proc.

Yep, experiences are the same as above. If playing a very high damage spec that aims to burst from stealth, merciless loses its value as a damage skill. the minor berserk buff is essential though.

@fred4 Now Merciless is one thing, Major sorcery is another. I think that buff is essential regardless if you're a brawler, a ganker, a finisher or w/e. That 20% boost is huge. If you're using magicka potions, why not use the alliance magicka potions that give major sorcery?

Datthaw

HaruKamui wrote: »

Datthaw wrote: »

Zevrro wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

Zevrro wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

Hmm. I am by no means brilliant, but my melee magblade remains the character with which I get the most kills. (I don't really play my stamblade much. Not used to it.)

I wish I could give up Forward Momentum, but I can't. You use it for a consistent heal to activate Troll King, when wearing that set. You use it, if you get taloned or snared. It's cheaper than a dodge roll and you need the immunity. The fact that it's down to 4 seconds doesn't matter that much, since you only use it reactively to get back up to speed and into cloak.

I actually use Swallow Soul on the resto bar in addition to Concealed on the 2H bar. It is quite ineffective as a damage dealing skill in my build, but it is a heal and my preferred spammable for IC bosses. It also helps to have a ranged option in those unfocused before prime time fights, where everyone is just strewn around a keep. I love those and I don't like builds that are entirely melee.

Zevrro wrote: »

I don't really see the benefit of the melee magblade playstyle since you lose healing and you have to fight up close on a class with very low mobility.

I don't get this comment. Low mobility? Certainly not magblade. You mean the DK? I fight DKs. It's one of the main reasons I play melee.

I was talking about dual wield melee magblades. If you run 2h then you get mobility from forward momentum but for some reason almost all of the melee magblades I see are running dual wield. I haven't see many players using forward momentum on magblade since they decreased the duration.

That's bound to change. DW made sense from an enchants point of view, especially if you were running Torug's Pact. Makes no sense now.

fred4 wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

Hmm. I am by no means brilliant, but my melee magblade remains the character with which I get the most kills. (I don't really play my stamblade much. Not used to it.)

I wish I could give up Forward Momentum, but I can't. You use it for a consistent heal to activate Troll King, when wearing that set. You use it, if you get taloned or snared. It's cheaper than a dodge roll and you need the immunity. The fact that it's down to 4 seconds doesn't matter that much, since you only use it reactively to get back up to speed and into cloak.

I actually use Swallow Soul on the resto bar in addition to Concealed on the 2H bar. It is quite ineffective as a damage dealing skill in my build, but it is a heal and my preferred spammable for IC bosses. It also helps to have a ranged option in those unfocused before prime time fights, where everyone is just strewn around a keep. I love those and I don't like builds that are entirely melee.

Zevrro wrote: »

I don't really see the benefit of the melee magblade playstyle since you lose healing and you have to fight up close on a class with very low mobility.

I don't get this comment. Low mobility? Certainly not magblade. You mean the DK? I fight DKs. It's one of the main reasons I play melee.

What’s your spec? I might try it. I don’t think I’ve beaten a magDK in a duel... ever.

Btw, it’s not just DKs who can reflect. It’s DKs, Wardens, and anyone who uses S&B.

I agree about magblade maneuverability too. That’s what makes it fun even if it’s not effective.

Well, for what it's worth:

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=127467

This is an open world spec. While I have beaten my mag DK friend, who is roughly as skilled as myself, I don't expect to kill everyone with this.

It is a fairly high sustain, cloaking speed build that works in CP and no CP. Your defense is that speed. If the DK talons you, you can try hitting them, but if they do too much damage you Fear, Forward Momentum and run off. You are basically so fast that I've given up on the shade. If the opponent uses a detection potion things can get a little tricky, but you still have a good chance to move out of range.

I do not aim to have the greatest burst with this. If I did, I would run Spinner instead of Skooma Smuggler, or perhaps Auroran's Thunder, and I would incorporate Merciless and, perhaps, Degeneration. As it stands, I don't even bother with Major Sorcery. Instead I prefer Immovability / Detection / Magicka potions. This build is about staying on top of and finishing people with Concealed Weapon after the burst, which is why I prefer that potion. The burst typically comes from Cloak -> Lotus Fan -> Incap + guaranteed Caluurion proc hitting at the same time. Plus Zaan, if you're lucky. Skooma Smuggler is as much of a help in offense as it is in defense. It allows you to stay on top of dodge rolling opponents who you will eventually hit.

Inbetween ultis I'm typically in and out of cloak, while I try to stun people with Concealed and get another Caluurion or Zaan proc now and again. The speed obviously synergises with Zaan. Alternatively I just hit people from range, building ultimate. Sometimes switching to range can work, especially if the opponent is a vampire. The main reason for the infused prismatic resto is boss farming in IC, though. Feel free to use a different enchant.

Stamina sustain is limited, which is why Deep Thoughts is in the build. One break free, roll dodge and Forward Momentum is about all you have. When low on stamina (or magicka) I hide behind a tree and use that skill. Thankfully it is very viable to disappear with the speed you have.

This build can quite easily be countered. Caluurion is reflectable and has a 1 second activation time, even when used at point blank range. If you are too predictable, people will dodge roll it and a DK who is really clued in might keep their wings up. In practice this is perhaps easier said than done, outside of a duel, or most people are simply not that clued in. DKs have a tendency to only use wings reactively, when attacked by obvious ranged attacks. It's an expensive skill for them after all.

Some obligatory small print: This build is capable of perma-cloaking outside of combat and near perma-cloaking in combat. I was talking to Jeezye in game, and he asked whether I get into prolonged fights. I do. It is not a pure ganking spec and not nearly the highest damage you can get with this type of build. The attraction to this playstyle is that the speed and cloak gives you a lot of control. If you want to view that as resulting in a series of ganks, so be it, but I have to say that this patch has enabled me to get higher health and that 1.15K health regen and that has improved it's ability to brawl just a little. Still, you would be stupid not to run away and recover your stamina when it's down and you don't have the Immovability potion ready.

Anyway, back to talking about sustain. Be a Breton. Let me repeat that: Be a Breton. This build is made for it. Note the two cost reduction rings, one Infused? That is what you need. Do not go for more magicka recovery and, for gods sake, don't wear Lich nor Bright Throat's. This build is squishy. Speed and cloak are your defenses. What do you need to sustain cloak? Atro mundus (but using Steed this patch, cause we can), drinks and cost reduction. NOT magicka recovery. Let me repeat that: NOT magicka recovery. The reason is that, while you are out of combat, your magicka recovery is calculated differently. It is typically higher than in combat, but only based on drinks and mundus. The stat sheet does not show you this, unless you use Harven's Extended Stats addon, which shows your "Magicka Recovery Idle". I suppose it depends on playstyle, but if you are like me, you can and will run around in cloak a lot and the game engine will consider you out of combat half the time. That's why you build for out of combat sustain as well as in combat.

How are you playing magblade without merciless resolve?

Mercy's usefulness really depends on for you attack tbh. The more of an elusive burst toon you play the more it loses its value imo. On my calu blade the targets I take I can kill with my combo, no mercy needed, I use it as an 8% damage buff. It does come in handy when I'm zerg surfing or playing with some buddies because I can swallow soul weave on my resto bar. But for the most part I'm not out of clock long enough to build a proc.

Yep, experiences are the same as above. If playing a very high damage spec that aims to burst from stealth, merciless loses its value as a damage skill. the minor berserk buff is essential though.

@fred4 Now Merciless is one thing, Major sorcery is another. I think that buff is essential regardless if you're a brawler, a ganker, a finisher or w/e. That 20% boost is huge. If you're using magicka potions, why not use the alliance magicka potions that give major sorcery?

Yeah ap pots are the jam. I use those for all content tbh

ScruffyWhiskers

I really am enjoying all the discussion here. Lots of good points and different approaches. But the problem always comes down to that same thing really. Squishy targets are easy. They melt and you don't have to do anything else. You will get them with a sustain build or a high penetration build or just good all around brawling stats.

But the vast majority of player builds and talent out there will quickly put you on the defensive and once that happens mag nb is at a real disadvantage (the melee version at least. I've never been good at the ranged one.)

How many times have you gotten a target down to execute range and then couldn't finish them off? Even with Impale and an oblivion enchant on my back bar it's clunky and they either dodge roll or shield up or start blocking and you have to start thinking about resetting. If you wait too long the tables turn quickly or a bunch of friends show up.

Sometimes I think I should just try stam blade again. But I feel like that's giving up. Maybe my nostalgia for what the game was like in 2014/15 is just getting the better of me. I really dislike what they have done by creating a stam and magicka dichotomy. I love this game but I hate that .

fred4

HaruKamui wrote: »

Datthaw wrote: »

Zevrro wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

Zevrro wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

Hmm. I am by no means brilliant, but my melee magblade remains the character with which I get the most kills. (I don't really play my stamblade much. Not used to it.)

I wish I could give up Forward Momentum, but I can't. You use it for a consistent heal to activate Troll King, when wearing that set. You use it, if you get taloned or snared. It's cheaper than a dodge roll and you need the immunity. The fact that it's down to 4 seconds doesn't matter that much, since you only use it reactively to get back up to speed and into cloak.

I actually use Swallow Soul on the resto bar in addition to Concealed on the 2H bar. It is quite ineffective as a damage dealing skill in my build, but it is a heal and my preferred spammable for IC bosses. It also helps to have a ranged option in those unfocused before prime time fights, where everyone is just strewn around a keep. I love those and I don't like builds that are entirely melee.

Zevrro wrote: »

I don't really see the benefit of the melee magblade playstyle since you lose healing and you have to fight up close on a class with very low mobility.

I don't get this comment. Low mobility? Certainly not magblade. You mean the DK? I fight DKs. It's one of the main reasons I play melee.

I was talking about dual wield melee magblades. If you run 2h then you get mobility from forward momentum but for some reason almost all of the melee magblades I see are running dual wield. I haven't see many players using forward momentum on magblade since they decreased the duration.

That's bound to change. DW made sense from an enchants point of view, especially if you were running Torug's Pact. Makes no sense now.

fred4 wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

Hmm. I am by no means brilliant, but my melee magblade remains the character with which I get the most kills. (I don't really play my stamblade much. Not used to it.)

I wish I could give up Forward Momentum, but I can't. You use it for a consistent heal to activate Troll King, when wearing that set. You use it, if you get taloned or snared. It's cheaper than a dodge roll and you need the immunity. The fact that it's down to 4 seconds doesn't matter that much, since you only use it reactively to get back up to speed and into cloak.

I actually use Swallow Soul on the resto bar in addition to Concealed on the 2H bar. It is quite ineffective as a damage dealing skill in my build, but it is a heal and my preferred spammable for IC bosses. It also helps to have a ranged option in those unfocused before prime time fights, where everyone is just strewn around a keep. I love those and I don't like builds that are entirely melee.

Zevrro wrote: »

I don't really see the benefit of the melee magblade playstyle since you lose healing and you have to fight up close on a class with very low mobility.

I don't get this comment. Low mobility? Certainly not magblade. You mean the DK? I fight DKs. It's one of the main reasons I play melee.

What’s your spec? I might try it. I don’t think I’ve beaten a magDK in a duel... ever.

Btw, it’s not just DKs who can reflect. It’s DKs, Wardens, and anyone who uses S&B.

I agree about magblade maneuverability too. That’s what makes it fun even if it’s not effective.

Well, for what it's worth:

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=127467

This is an open world spec. While I have beaten my mag DK friend, who is roughly as skilled as myself, I don't expect to kill everyone with this.

It is a fairly high sustain, cloaking speed build that works in CP and no CP. Your defense is that speed. If the DK talons you, you can try hitting them, but if they do too much damage you Fear, Forward Momentum and run off. You are basically so fast that I've given up on the shade. If the opponent uses a detection potion things can get a little tricky, but you still have a good chance to move out of range.

I do not aim to have the greatest burst with this. If I did, I would run Spinner instead of Skooma Smuggler, or perhaps Auroran's Thunder, and I would incorporate Merciless and, perhaps, Degeneration. As it stands, I don't even bother with Major Sorcery. Instead I prefer Immovability / Detection / Magicka potions. This build is about staying on top of and finishing people with Concealed Weapon after the burst, which is why I prefer that potion. The burst typically comes from Cloak -> Lotus Fan -> Incap + guaranteed Caluurion proc hitting at the same time. Plus Zaan, if you're lucky. Skooma Smuggler is as much of a help in offense as it is in defense. It allows you to stay on top of dodge rolling opponents who you will eventually hit.

Inbetween ultis I'm typically in and out of cloak, while I try to stun people with Concealed and get another Caluurion or Zaan proc now and again. The speed obviously synergises with Zaan. Alternatively I just hit people from range, building ultimate. Sometimes switching to range can work, especially if the opponent is a vampire. The main reason for the infused prismatic resto is boss farming in IC, though. Feel free to use a different enchant.

Stamina sustain is limited, which is why Deep Thoughts is in the build. One break free, roll dodge and Forward Momentum is about all you have. When low on stamina (or magicka) I hide behind a tree and use that skill. Thankfully it is very viable to disappear with the speed you have.

This build can quite easily be countered. Caluurion is reflectable and has a 1 second activation time, even when used at point blank range. If you are too predictable, people will dodge roll it and a DK who is really clued in might keep their wings up. In practice this is perhaps easier said than done, outside of a duel, or most people are simply not that clued in. DKs have a tendency to only use wings reactively, when attacked by obvious ranged attacks. It's an expensive skill for them after all.

Some obligatory small print: This build is capable of perma-cloaking outside of combat and near perma-cloaking in combat. I was talking to Jeezye in game, and he asked whether I get into prolonged fights. I do. It is not a pure ganking spec and not nearly the highest damage you can get with this type of build. The attraction to this playstyle is that the speed and cloak gives you a lot of control. If you want to view that as resulting in a series of ganks, so be it, but I have to say that this patch has enabled me to get higher health and that 1.15K health regen and that has improved it's ability to brawl just a little. Still, you would be stupid not to run away and recover your stamina when it's down and you don't have the Immovability potion ready.

Anyway, back to talking about sustain. Be a Breton. Let me repeat that: Be a Breton. This build is made for it. Note the two cost reduction rings, one Infused? That is what you need. Do not go for more magicka recovery and, for gods sake, don't wear Lich nor Bright Throat's. This build is squishy. Speed and cloak are your defenses. What do you need to sustain cloak? Atro mundus (but using Steed this patch, cause we can), drinks and cost reduction. NOT magicka recovery. Let me repeat that: NOT magicka recovery. The reason is that, while you are out of combat, your magicka recovery is calculated differently. It is typically higher than in combat, but only based on drinks and mundus. The stat sheet does not show you this, unless you use Harven's Extended Stats addon, which shows your "Magicka Recovery Idle". I suppose it depends on playstyle, but if you are like me, you can and will run around in cloak a lot and the game engine will consider you out of combat half the time. That's why you build for out of combat sustain as well as in combat.

How are you playing magblade without merciless resolve?

Mercy's usefulness really depends on for you attack tbh. The more of an elusive burst toon you play the more it loses its value imo. On my calu blade the targets I take I can kill with my combo, no mercy needed, I use it as an 8% damage buff. It does come in handy when I'm zerg surfing or playing with some buddies because I can swallow soul weave on my resto bar. But for the most part I'm not out of clock long enough to build a proc.

Yep, experiences are the same as above. If playing a very high damage spec that aims to burst from stealth, merciless loses its value as a damage skill. the minor berserk buff is essential though.

@fred4 Now Merciless is one thing, Major sorcery is another. I think that buff is essential regardless if you're a brawler, a ganker, a finisher or w/e. That 20% boost is huge. If you're using magicka potions, why not use the alliance magicka potions that give major sorcery?

No, it's not. 20% to spell damage, when your spell damage is 2K, is quite pitiful. Tested this a long time ago. Against target skeleton it was worth around 7% extra damage, whereas Minor Berserk was worth less than 6%. Marking the skeleton, on the other hand, was worth 14%. Just further proof how every number in this game lies to you.

Pinch of salt and all of that, cause it's the level 50 (not 66) target skeleton we're talking about, but I would slot Mark before a spell damage buff or I would slot Merciless, because I can pre-buff that in cloak. Either of those would also improve my procs, whereas Sorcery would not. In practice I find Immovability pots much more useful, because you can't be fossilized or feared right after your burst.

There is also the fun factor. Some builds aim to one shot people and that's fair enough. I only kill undergeared, AFK or PvEers outright. For the others, I run after them. Being a speed build, using Immovable and Detection pots gives me a much better chance to hit them with melee. If someone is at low health, trying to LoS, then you have to be relentless. At least that's my playstyle. Immovability also mitigates the effectiveness of any counter attack.

LordTareq

fred4 wrote: »

A friend tells me penetration in PvP now works up to -5K (!), but I have not tested that myself. Also, pen in PvE is not comparable. I believe a dummy is considered level 50 and it takes 500 pen for 1%. A CP160+ player is considered level 66 (level 50 + 16 vet ranks in the old system) and it takes 660 pen against a player for 1%.

I didn’t know this. This would make War Maiden almost as good as Spinners on the melee bar.

Knootewoot

fred4 wrote: »

I would slot Merciless, because I can pre-buff that in cloak.

How to pre buff in cloak? I always light attack 4 times during battle.

fred4

Knootewoot wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

I would slot Merciless, because I can pre-buff that in cloak.

How to pre buff in cloak? I always light attack 4 times during battle.

To get Minor Berserk. As opposed to Major Sorcery, for which you need to hit someone with Entropy or Sap.

Knootewoot

fred4 wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

I would slot Merciless, because I can pre-buff that in cloak.

How to pre buff in cloak? I always light attack 4 times during battle.

To get Minor Berserk. As opposed to Major Sorcery, for which you need to hit someone with Entropy or Sap.

Aah, I though you ment the bow proc. It's to bad we need to hit someone to get major sorcery, while stamina can just use 2-handed in stealth for it.

Xvorg

fred4 wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

I would slot Merciless, because I can pre-buff that in cloak.

How to pre buff in cloak? I always light attack 4 times during battle.

To get Minor Berserk. As opposed to Major Sorcery, for which you need to hit someone with Entropy or Sap.

Potions also help with major sorc btw

fred4

Xvorg wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

I would slot Merciless, because I can pre-buff that in cloak.

How to pre buff in cloak? I always light attack 4 times during battle.

To get Minor Berserk. As opposed to Major Sorcery, for which you need to hit someone with Entropy or Sap.

Potions also help with major sorc btw

Noted, but as I've already said, I prefer Immovability potions. What they lose in Spell Damage, they easily recoup in DD uptime.

kaithuzar

I usually run 3 different pots & try to swap based on situation.
Tri-pots
Lingering health
Essence of detection (major sorcery+detect)

LordTareq

I swear by Essence of Detection potions, really overpowered when fighting other nightblades. And you basically have 20% extra spelldamage 100% of your combat time.
Downside is I consume like 10+ of them per battleground

fred4

ScruffyWhiskers wrote: »

But the problem always comes down to that same thing really. Squishy targets are easy. They melt and you don't have to do anything else. You will get them with a sustain build or a high penetration build or just good all around brawling stats.

That certainly mirrors my experience. There are the easy kills and the tough fights. The inbetween, really balanced ones are kind of rare.

But the vast majority of player builds and talent out there will quickly put you on the defensive and once that happens mag nb is at a real disadvantage (the melee version at least. I've never been good at the ranged one.)

I get frustrated when watching (cherry-picked) 1vX YouTube clips, because in reality I find most players hard to kill, nor do others stand by and let you do your thing. I think most kills come about when there is an Xv1 element. Battle lines are constantly shifting and the person in the wrong place is the one who gets killed.

I'd be lying if I said melee magblade had a disadvantage though. Now, bear in mind I don't do BGs, I am talking about open-world here, mostly CP. Most 1vXers have to use the terrain and, possibly, a lot of Mist Form. Even stamblades have to juggle dodge rolling, the shade and cloak. What gets me most about stamblade, and the reason I actually prefer mag, is their speed while in cloak. They are just so darn slow, whereas melee magblade speeds up in cloak. I prefer the latter.

If you ask me, the magicka class that has the greatest problem with being put on the defensive is a "traditional" templar build, relying on block, Honor the Dead, and purge. It can be hard to transition back to offense with those builds. That's not really the case with magblade. <Sigh>. You all underestimate speed. The greatest asset, of my build at least, is that I don't need to LoS. In fact, I prefer flat, open terrain, since it becomes harder to guess which way I've gone.

How many times have you gotten a target down to execute range and then couldn't finish them off?

Was it a magsorc?

Even with Impale and an oblivion enchant on my back bar it's clunky and they either dodge roll or shield up or start blocking and you have to start thinking about resetting. If you wait too long the tables turn quickly or a bunch of friends show up.

There is something clunky about bar swapping in execute phase as well as the hard 25% cut off of Impale, which is why I don't run it. I just spam Concealed. Yes, you are absolutely right. Judging when the tables are about to turn and cloaking just before that is one of the hardest things to get right. Zaan gives you an advantage, not just for the damage it does, but also because people are weary of it and stay on the defensive.

When people block, the answer is obviously to fear them, which is why some people run that skill on the front bar. I swapped out the shade for fear recently. You could run both, but with my raw speed just fear actually works better for me.

Sometimes I think I should just try stam blade again. But I feel like that's giving up.

Don't give up!

Iskiab

HaruKamui wrote: »

Just wanna reiterate that the high recovery magblade is doing super well for me right now. Try it out guys.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=126732

I played a high recovery build right before switching to healer. Problem I found is there were too many hard counters.

By that I mean there were some BGs were it was amazing and I dominated, I have a screen shot of me going 21-1 in a death match. It was mostly against bow dps who’re easy to pick off.

Then I had some BGs where I felt like I couldn’t kill anyone and was ineffective. In BGs against a lot of DKs and reflections I’d go maybe 6-6.

The style was too much feast or famine for me. Too many hard counters to the spec; like the destro ult where the circle knocks you out of invis, reflections, detect invis pots, blockade, etc

By the way, I think I’m going to try a melee’ish’ magblade spec. Thing is what do melee magblades use for self healing? That’s one thing I never understood. If you don’t use swallow soul because it gets reflected there isn’t much else. Refreshing and harness magicka doesn’t cut it.

I’m thinking of trying a spec that uses blockade, twisting and crushing shock for offense.

Datthaw

Iskiab wrote: »

HaruKamui wrote: »

Just wanna reiterate that the high recovery magblade is doing super well for me right now. Try it out guys.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=126732

I played a high recovery build right before switching to healer. Problem I found is there were too many hard counters.

By that I mean there were some BGs were it was amazing and I dominated, I have a screen shot of me going 21-1 in a death match. It was mostly against bow dps who’re easy to pick off.

Then I had some BGs where I felt like I couldn’t kill anyone and was ineffective. In BGs against a lot of DKs and reflections I’d go maybe 6-6.

The style was too much feast or famine for me. Too many hard counters to the spec; like the destro ult where the circle knocks you out of invis, reflections, detect invis pots, blockade, etc

By the way, I think I’m going to try a melee’ish’ magblade spec. Thing is what do melee magblades use for self healing? That’s one thing I never understood. If you don’t use swallow soul because it gets reflected there isn’t much else. Refreshing and harness magicka doesn’t cut it.

I’m thinking of trying a spec that uses blockade, twisting and crushing shock for offense.

A build like that would need to be more of a brawler so dark cloak and heavy might be the way to run that otherwise yoy will melt trying to fight in aoes. Mebe use a 1 bar set and try it with a maelstrom destro to buff your light attacks. Could be a total bust but I'll try anything once.

HowlKimchi

Iskiab wrote: »

HaruKamui wrote: »

Just wanna reiterate that the high recovery magblade is doing super well for me right now. Try it out guys.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=126732

I played a high recovery build right before switching to healer. Problem I found is there were too many hard counters.

By that I mean there were some BGs were it was amazing and I dominated, I have a screen shot of me going 21-1 in a death match. It was mostly against bow dps who’re easy to pick off.

Then I had some BGs where I felt like I couldn’t kill anyone and was ineffective. In BGs against a lot of DKs and reflections I’d go maybe 6-6.

The style was too much feast or famine for me. Too many hard counters to the spec; like the destro ult where the circle knocks you out of invis, reflections, detect invis pots, blockade, etc

By the way, I think I’m going to try a melee’ish’ magblade spec. Thing is what do melee magblades use for self healing? That’s one thing I never understood. If you don’t use swallow soul because it gets reflected there isn’t much else. Refreshing and harness magicka doesn’t cut it.

I’m thinking of trying a spec that uses blockade, twisting and crushing shock for offense.

The hardest thing to deal with definitely is DK wings. I've kinda accepted that i wont ever be getting DK kills with my setup. That's the only hard counter imo. Hopefully soon, ranged magblades wont be as weak to reflects and rolls as they are now. I didnt have a problem with this before when spectral bow was instant. But now, it's getting hard to time a hysteria and spectral bow given my SEA ping.

The rest (detect pots, aoes, etc) are defeinitely counters to cloak but manageable with good positioning. The x3 protective jewelry is what's really making it work for me though. I'm tanky enough that i'm able to survive and react after big spikes of damage which is what kills in PVP a high percentage of the time.

as for the melee-ish magblade. I'd probably run the healing morph of cloak, and use tanky light armor sets.

Iskiab

Yea, I don’t think I’m going to go full melee. Sort of more short range to stay out of aoes but close enough to apply twisting and blockade. I should try dark cloak - but I don’t want to lol. I’d rather play my magwarden and jump in on the reflection game because it would be a lot stronger. I’m not sure if concealed is worth it too, either way your execute would be ranged so what’s the point?

Maybe fire & Ice staff, high recover for lots of invis with blockade and twisting? I might have to go resto & Ice to be able to self heal but am not sure how it’ll play.

I’ve noticed from pve parsing the bulk of magblade damage comes from blockade, impale and twisting. I think without incorporating those abilities in pvp magblade will be low damage.

Maybe...
Main: merciless, blockade, impale, crushing, cloak - u: soul siphon
Back: Siphoning strikes, twisting, harness magicka, x, x - u: incap strike

HowlKimchi

i dont think impale is that essential in pvp, especially since are bars are already too crowded and we have impale+spectral bow as the finisher. For my case if the target lives through that. I rely on light attack + swallow soul + torug's enchant to finish the job.

For melee magblades I would assume that weaving concealed is already pretty good as an "execute"