PLEASE HELP MAGBLADE!

Jeezye

HaruKamui wrote: »

Have you guys tried running a high recovery build? I'm playing around with it and it's very versatile. With high health recovery with hots, just making a bit of space is enough to get to full health.

The sustained damage is also nice because of torug's + infused. I'm not sure yet what the best enchant for damage is. Oblivion or shock maybe? Oblivion has a 3k tooltip while shock has a 6.4k tooltip.

Having very high health recovery is nice since it's always active, and you get a free slot. I'm able to run tripots and still have major prophecy and sorcery.

Check it out here:
Khajit: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=126726
Dunmer: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=126732

I think health recovery is great to complement survivability on magblade because of the class recovery boosts. I wouldn't specifically build for it though, maybe run citrus filet/bear haunch, potentially steed or one setbonus.

Thinking of doing a high crit torugs setup for BGs, maybe with shadow mundus, but thats just getting carried by sets really.

Xsorus

Jeezye wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Thinking of trying something like this on my Magblade

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=119696

yeah man I've played alot around with hybrid setups for the magblade too, so we get access to forward momentum heals, better light attack damage in melee and of course vigor.

However, if you fully think this trough, you'll just end up with a stamblade that maybe uses cripple to complement damage. Especially because medium is the goto armor for pelinals builds I doesnt make much sense to run the magicka counterparts anymore...

This is more using the Stamina heals then actually using stamina abilities for damage. It also allows me to push up my spell damage to obscene levels as well. Rolling around with a 12k delve concealed weapon is fun.

fred4

Jeezye wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Thinking of trying something like this on my Magblade

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=119696

...
However, if you fully think this trough, you'll just end up with a stamblade that maybe uses cripple to complement damage. Especially because medium is the goto armor for pelinals builds I doesnt make much sense to run the magicka counterparts anymore...

That's always the problem with Pelinal builds, however the attraction would be having the Concealed speed and light armor cloak sustain along with Vigor. I'd probably still run Forward Momentum over Rally myself. The tooltips look good, but the low crit always hampers Pelinal builds.

HowlKimchi

Jeezye wrote: »

HaruKamui wrote: »

Have you guys tried running a high recovery build? I'm playing around with it and it's very versatile. With high health recovery with hots, just making a bit of space is enough to get to full health.

The sustained damage is also nice because of torug's + infused. I'm not sure yet what the best enchant for damage is. Oblivion or shock maybe? Oblivion has a 3k tooltip while shock has a 6.4k tooltip.

Having very high health recovery is nice since it's always active, and you get a free slot. I'm able to run tripots and still have major prophecy and sorcery.

Check it out here:
Khajit: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=126726
Dunmer: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=126732

I think health recovery is great to complement survivability on magblade because of the class recovery boosts. I wouldn't specifically build for it though, maybe run citrus filet/bear haunch, potentially steed or one setbonus.

Thinking of doing a high crit torugs setup for BGs, maybe with shadow mundus, but thats just getting carried by sets really.

Why wont it be worth building in to? It works great with cloak and I still have good damage because I'm able to run damage sets on light armor. The high stam recovery is also nice for getting those rolls in. I find Healing Ward to be okay as an "oh ***" button with all the hots and health recovery.

zyk

Lucky28 wrote: »

i would like them to undo the changes that put magblade in this sorry state rather than changing other things to try and fix the issue the initial changes caused.

I don't disagree in general, but I've completely lost faith in ZOS. Nothing is sacred to them. They will make whimsical changes to parts of the game that aren't over-performing or causing any problems just because without thinking twice about it.

I guess if I was to be less jaded about it, I'd like to see the Melee Magblade style fleshed out more. In a combat system built around weaving light attacks, Concealed Weapon is a poor match with Staves.

I don't want to see Concealed Weapon changed, but rather gameplay designed around it. Perhaps when slotted it could provide one of the two following passives:

• change DW/1HS/2H light/heavy attacks to scale off Max Magicka/Spell Damage, inflict Magic damage and use Spell Crit chance. (this would be my preference).
  OR
• change Staff light and heavy attacks into unreflectable melee range attacks.

I think Melee Magblade would also benefit from snare/immobilization immunity. Perhaps this could be added to the Path of Darkness or Blur lines.

Assassin's Will should not be so loud if it is also going to be so slow.

Bring back Malefic Wreath. This was an underrated ability that opened up a lot of playstyle options. Though it wasn't a high damage ability, it was enough to layer on a significant bonus to burst combos.

OK, ZOS won't bring it back. But perhaps they could add a Malefic Wreath passive to another ability/line so when slotted, it deals Magic damage when the target breaks-free.

Finally, I think Magblade is too dependent on Resto Staves for a variety of playstyles. All other Magicka specs are more effective open world without a Resto Staff. This needs to be remedied. I would love to go back to destro and DW/1HS/2H builds for a wider range of activities.

But whatever ZOS does, I don't want to see Magblade over-buffed with a high floor so it's FOTM. Despite the loss of versatility over the years, I still love the high risk, high reward elements of the spec. I also don't want to see major changes to key abilities and ultimates like Cloak and Soul Harvest. The Magblade identity should be refined, not redesigned.

fred4

HaruKamui wrote: »

Jeezye wrote: »

HaruKamui wrote: »

Have you guys tried running a high recovery build? I'm playing around with it and it's very versatile. With high health recovery with hots, just making a bit of space is enough to get to full health.

The sustained damage is also nice because of torug's + infused. I'm not sure yet what the best enchant for damage is. Oblivion or shock maybe? Oblivion has a 3k tooltip while shock has a 6.4k tooltip.

Having very high health recovery is nice since it's always active, and you get a free slot. I'm able to run tripots and still have major prophecy and sorcery.

Check it out here:
Khajit: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=126726
Dunmer: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=126732

I think health recovery is great to complement survivability on magblade because of the class recovery boosts. I wouldn't specifically build for it though, maybe run citrus filet/bear haunch, potentially steed or one setbonus.

Thinking of doing a high crit torugs setup for BGs, maybe with shadow mundus, but thats just getting carried by sets really.

Why wont it be worth building in to? It works great with cloak and I still have good damage because I'm able to run damage sets on light armor. The high stam recovery is also nice for getting those rolls in. I find Healing Ward to be okay as an "oh ***" button with all the hots and health recovery.

I run these kind of setups on my magplar and magden, e.g. defensive monster set + 2x damage sets + vMA resto + Protective jewelry. Duelled a magplar recently. Their damage is just high. Sweeps, Birds and Shalks hit harder than Swallow Soul with similar specs, I think. I could be wrong. I know Sweeps is clunky and has a cast time, but it also has a 12K+ tooltip and activates Burning Light. Everyone likes to complain about Incap / Soul Harvest, but I think NB is actually quite dependent on that ulti to get the 20% damage bonus.

No question using Troll King plus a shield, be it Dampen or Healing Ward, is nice. I love Troll King + Forward Momentum, but I felt I had to drop it in my build, because I wasn't doing enough damage. The thing about Torug's Pact, as well, is that in order to take full advantage you have to do partial heavies and get that 1.4 second timing right. That's a barrier for me personally at least. I loathe heavy attacks. I think just running Infused is good value already and prefer different damage sets.

fred4

zyk wrote: »

Lucky28 wrote: »

i would like them to undo the changes that put magblade in this sorry state rather than changing other things to try and fix the issue the initial changes caused.

I don't disagree in general, but I've completely lost faith in ZOS. Nothing is sacred to them. They will make whimsical changes to parts of the game that aren't over-performing or causing any problems just because without thinking twice about it.

Yep. I don't know whether they have internal statistics to back up their decisions or whether it's the George Lucas syndrome of obsessively changing things "because that's how we wanted it".

I don't want to see Concealed Weapon changed, but rather gameplay designed around it. Perhaps when slotted it could provide one of the two following passives:

• change DW/1HS/2H light/heavy attacks to scale off Max Magicka/Spell Damage, inflict Magic damage and use Spell Crit chance. (this would be my preference).
  OR
• change Staff light and heavy attacks into unreflectable melee range attacks.

Those are great ideas. Very targeted.

I think Melee Magblade would also benefit from snare/immobilization immunity. Perhaps this could be added to the Path of Darkness or Blur lines.

Agree. Only thing is, you're also giving that to stamblades then. I already find Double Take a really good skill on stamblade, more so than on magblade. So perhaps to path, then.

Bring back Malefic Wreath. This was an underrated ability that opened up a lot of playstyle options. Though it wasn't a high damage ability, it was enough to layer on a significant bonus to burst combos.

Also agreed. I was sorry to see that go.

Finally, I think Magblade is too dependent on Resto Staves for a variety of playstyles. All other Magicka specs are more effective open world without a Resto Staff. This needs to be remedied. I would love to go back to destro and DW/1HS/2H builds for a wider range of activities.

Which is why the shield and Healing Ward nerfs hit it so hard.

I mean, I think the reason why all this happened is probably because Cloak is such a strong skill when it works. I'm still using the resto for now. That's not even because Healing Ward is a good shield when beat upon, but because I need something - anything - to heal back up to full and not be out of action for 20 seconds, after having cloaked away.

Jeezye

HaruKamui wrote: »

Jeezye wrote: »

HaruKamui wrote: »

Have you guys tried running a high recovery build? I'm playing around with it and it's very versatile. With high health recovery with hots, just making a bit of space is enough to get to full health.

The sustained damage is also nice because of torug's + infused. I'm not sure yet what the best enchant for damage is. Oblivion or shock maybe? Oblivion has a 3k tooltip while shock has a 6.4k tooltip.

Having very high health recovery is nice since it's always active, and you get a free slot. I'm able to run tripots and still have major prophecy and sorcery.

Check it out here:
Khajit: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=126726
Dunmer: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=126732

I think health recovery is great to complement survivability on magblade because of the class recovery boosts. I wouldn't specifically build for it though, maybe run citrus filet/bear haunch, potentially steed or one setbonus.

Thinking of doing a high crit torugs setup for BGs, maybe with shadow mundus, but thats just getting carried by sets really.

Why wont it be worth building in to? It works great with cloak and I still have good damage because I'm able to run damage sets on light armor. The high stam recovery is also nice for getting those rolls in. I find Healing Ward to be okay as an "oh ***" button with all the hots and health recovery.

Because in order to invest into HP recovery you give up on vital sustain/damage. TKs once piece is utter garbage and even with high stats magblade struggels to bring people down, so a proc set/ real tank set is likely the better alternative. not saying TK is bad, its a good choice, but I dont think its optimal one for magblades.

Jeezye

Xsorus wrote: »

Jeezye wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Thinking of trying something like this on my Magblade

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=119696

yeah man I've played alot around with hybrid setups for the magblade too, so we get access to forward momentum heals, better light attack damage in melee and of course vigor.

However, if you fully think this trough, you'll just end up with a stamblade that maybe uses cripple to complement damage. Especially because medium is the goto armor for pelinals builds I doesnt make much sense to run the magicka counterparts anymore...

This is more using the Stamina heals then actually using stamina abilities for damage. It also allows me to push up my spell damage to obscene levels as well. Rolling around with a 12k delve concealed weapon is fun.

Ohh I didnt see you run 5 light, thought you were going 5 medium. In that case magskills actually make more sense to use, but you loose that vital 15% wep/spelldmg bonus of medium armor. Might be worth the trade off, but all my pelinals builds used medium so far so I cant tell from experience - though I have seen a few LA hybrid setups.

you gotta ask yourself though, is it worth trading a 5 piece just for having (subpar) vigor und momentum heals? If I was you, I'd maybe kick in a few axes in your build to leverage passive bleeds. Maybe you find a few more synergies to go with high wep dmg. So far it wasnt worth the trade off for me on paper

Datthaw

Yeah I'm not a fan of nb hybrids. I'm the end you build a strange build that doesn't have the utility of a magnb or the burst of a stam. I will say I have yet to actually play one, but I have theory crafed alot of them and they always end with "might as well just go full stamblade" or " might as well go full magblade".

Even stuff like concealed, it looks good on paper, more movement speed w/e. But you miss out on that fracture from suprise so that off the bat is like 5k pen loss. That is unless you slot a major breech skill but then you have one skill for the price of two. And it is really needed, the cloak speed? Wth a bosmer stamnb it's just roll > cloak > stealth, with that movement speed, is concealed even worth it? Plus most stamnb are vamp anyway so they already have good movement speed in stealth. Vigor would be nice but you're still stuck layering hots without a decent burst. Fm heals are kinda trash anyway so you could use Rally for a burst but then what's the point of two hand melee without snare removal? Gonna need those hots when you cant move.

Idk there just doesn't seem to be much synnergy for nb hybrid in my eyes

fred4

Datthaw wrote: »

Yeah I'm not a fan of nb hybrids. I'm the end you build a strange build that doesn't have the utility of a magnb or the burst of a stam. I will say I have yet to actually play one, but I have theory crafed alot of them and they always end with "might as well just go full stamblade" or " might as well go full magblade".

Agreed.

Even stuff like concealed, it looks good on paper, more movement speed w/e ... And it is really needed, the cloak speed?

In the context of a pure melee magblade with no stamina sustain, shields nerfed to bits, and shade still broken in tower fights, my answer to that is a resounding yes. It's the one thing melee magblade has going for it, IMO, and amplifying that speed with Steed, Swift and source(s) of Major Expedition works both offensively and defensively for my playstyle. If you're a Bosmer with a bow, the answer is probably no.

Just to clarify: I am a fan of speed builds, so perhaps I feel the lack of it more keenly than other players. A vampire stamblade's crouch speed, which is the normal running speed, feels slow a f to me. Sprinting with Double Take feels good on a stamblade and it works out nicely that Double Take costs magicka. However running around in cloak on a magblade speed build, the freedom of movement you get from that around resources and keeps with hostile NPCs, that's in an entirely different league. With Skooma Smuggler I currently have +79% in cloak. That is as fast as a sprinting Bosmer with a bow, but that Bosmer is not cloaked and they get slowed by having to dodge roll every so often.

Iskiab

You know I was reading a thread about magtanking and it gave me an idea for a melee magblade spec. Let me know if anyone’s tried something similar:

S&B & either Ice or lightning staff.

Shaklebreaker and Buffer of the Swift or spinners. Monster not sure, maybe Iceheart. 3x block cost reduction jewellery. Go for 25-30k health.

Twisting path, blockade, concealed weapon, and impale for offence.

Dark cloak, double take, pbaoe fear for defense.

Block cast melee abilities.

Here’s my thinking:
- glass canon ranged doesn’t work because 2/5 classes have projectile defenses. Going more glass canon won’t help because they just absorb projectiles
- instead of trying to boost survivability with heavy and mitigation do it through block, then reduce the cost with jewellery and one handed and shield
- ground effects are the most powerful aoe abilities so use twisting
- instead of dipping into melee lines for their cc immunity, use block instead since blocking makes you immune to targeted cc
- dark cloak is a strong heal, but if people go too glass canon it doesn’t work because incoming damage is stronger than the healing it does
- Light for pen and recovery will be required for dps, but overall mitigation through block casting will allow you to stay more aggressive because your overall mitigation will be high
- let’s be honest, glass canon rdps are basicly being carried these days (bow dps and ranged magblades) because they require a front line person to be effective. You’d be stepping up to help your team
- Magblade dps is weak atm, but the tanking and healing abilities are still okay

SpiderCultist

I came over here just to say dark cloak is an abomination to NBs stealthy nature and whoever uses dark cloak needs to go play another class, for real.

Strife and Malevolent Offering are also disgraces in their current state.

I can't care less if Strife was overperforming in PvE, they ruined the bloodmage concept with these 3 changes and dmg shields nerfs.

fred4

Iskiab wrote: »

You know I was reading a thread about magtanking and it gave me an idea for a melee magblade spec. Let me know if anyone’s tried something similar:

S&B & either Ice or lightning staff.

Shaklebreaker and Buffer of the Swift or spinners. Monster not sure, maybe Iceheart. 3x block cost reduction jewellery. Go for 25-30k health.

Twisting path, blockade, concealed weapon, and impale for offence.

Dark cloak, double take, pbaoe fear for defense.

Block cast melee abilities.

Here’s my thinking:
- glass canon ranged doesn’t work because 2/5 classes have projectile defenses. Going more glass canon won’t help because they just absorb projectiles
- instead of trying to boost survivability with heavy and mitigation do it through block, then reduce the cost with jewellery and one handed and shield
- ground effects are the most powerful aoe abilities so use twisting
- instead of dipping into melee lines for their cc immunity, use block instead since blocking makes you immune to targeted cc
- dark cloak is a strong heal, but if people go too glass canon it doesn’t work because incoming damage is stronger than the healing it does
- Light for pen and recovery will be required for dps, but overall mitigation through block casting will allow you to stay more aggressive because your overall mitigation will be high
- let’s be honest, glass canon rdps are basicly being carried these days (bow dps and ranged magblades) because they require a front line person to be effective. You’d be stepping up to help your team
- Magblade dps is weak atm, but the tanking and healing abilities are still okay

My guess? Near zero damage and only mediocre survivability with that. You want to do damage with 1H+S, you better be stam and able to do Light Attack / Surprise Attack / Bash. Block casting is too low damage and you are charged block cost every 1/4 second this patch (used to be 1/2 second before Murkmire). Best thing is to put your build idea into UESP and see where the block cost ends up. 3x block cost reduction glyphs are a big sacrifice.

I'd say even Fortified Brass is better than Buffer of the Swift. The 5-piece bonus of Brass is about 8%, but that 8% is additive with your resistances, whereas the 10% from Buffer of the Swift is bound to be multiplicative. I'd say Cyrodiil's Crest is the best set, though.

For what it's worth, I have been experimenting with a tanky off-meta stamblade. Troll King, Impregnable, Fasalla's Guile, all medium, all Well-Fitted, all stamina cost reduction enchants. This has 3K+ crit resist and 60% defile in CP. It being me, I use Swift jewelry, but there is a logic to that, as you must stay on top of people for Fasalla. Does it work great? Nah. Works OK against some builds, but fails against shielding sorcs or templars with Pirate Skeleton, who are already defiling themselves. It's a really brawly build, though, and able to dodge roll about 15 times in a row, which is fun (might have been wearing some Infused cost reduction jewelry when I tested that).

Jeezye

fred4 wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

You know I was reading a thread about magtanking and it gave me an idea for a melee magblade spec. Let me know if anyone’s tried something similar:

S&B & either Ice or lightning staff.

Shaklebreaker and Buffer of the Swift or spinners. Monster not sure, maybe Iceheart. 3x block cost reduction jewellery. Go for 25-30k health.

Twisting path, blockade, concealed weapon, and impale for offence.

Dark cloak, double take, pbaoe fear for defense.

Block cast melee abilities.

Here’s my thinking:
- glass canon ranged doesn’t work because 2/5 classes have projectile defenses. Going more glass canon won’t help because they just absorb projectiles
- instead of trying to boost survivability with heavy and mitigation do it through block, then reduce the cost with jewellery and one handed and shield
- ground effects are the most powerful aoe abilities so use twisting
- instead of dipping into melee lines for their cc immunity, use block instead since blocking makes you immune to targeted cc
- dark cloak is a strong heal, but if people go too glass canon it doesn’t work because incoming damage is stronger than the healing it does
- Light for pen and recovery will be required for dps, but overall mitigation through block casting will allow you to stay more aggressive because your overall mitigation will be high
- let’s be honest, glass canon rdps are basicly being carried these days (bow dps and ranged magblades) because they require a front line person to be effective. You’d be stepping up to help your team
- Magblade dps is weak atm, but the tanking and healing abilities are still okay

My guess? Near zero damage and only mediocre survivability with that. You want to do damage with 1H+S, you better be stam and able to do Light Attack / Surprise Attack / Bash. Block casting is too low damage and you are charged block cost every 1/4 second this patch (used to be 1/2 second before Murkmire). Best thing is to put your build idea into UESP and see where the block cost ends up. 3x block cost reduction glyphs are a big sacrifice.

I'd say even Fortified Brass is better than Buffer of the Swift. The 5-piece bonus of Brass is about 8%, but that 8% is additive with your resistances, whereas the 10% from Buffer of the Swift is bound to be multiplicative. I'd say Cyrodiil's Crest is the best set, though.

For what it's worth, I have been experimenting with a tanky off-meta stamblade. Troll King, Impregnable, Fasalla's Guile, all medium, all Well-Fitted, all stamina cost reduction enchants. This has 3K+ crit resist and 60% defile in CP. It being me, I use Swift jewelry, but there is a logic to that, as you must stay on top of people for Fasalla. Does it work great? Nah. Works OK against some builds, but fails against shielding sorcs or templars with Pirate Skeleton, who are already defiling themselves. It's a really brawly build, though, and able to dodge roll about 15 times in a row, which is fun (might have been wearing some Infused cost reduction jewelry when I tested that).

I ran s/b on my magblade for close to 3 years now. Pure permablocking is no longer a thing and dont even bother to try it on a magblade, this was only sufficient to do with old leeching strikes. HOWEVER, shackle + BS together with the STAM morph of leeching strikes actually provides a crap ton of stam sustain, which I used to block on demand and to do the bash combos. 4 Sturdy and 1 block cost reduction (which also decreses bash cost) works perfect for that playstyle, however I dropped it since the light attack damage got increased and we cant benefit from that on s/b sadly.. But if you want to go for a saptankish playstyle in group play, its perfectly fine and I suggest you to try it!

Jeezye

ohh and varens legacy is actually fun with a blocking sap build, but it sadly doesnt increase the healing so its not rally worth spamming

fred4

Jeezye wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

You know I was reading a thread about magtanking and it gave me an idea for a melee magblade spec. Let me know if anyone’s tried something similar:

S&B & either Ice or lightning staff.

Shaklebreaker and Buffer of the Swift or spinners. Monster not sure, maybe Iceheart. 3x block cost reduction jewellery. Go for 25-30k health.

Twisting path, blockade, concealed weapon, and impale for offence.

Dark cloak, double take, pbaoe fear for defense.

Block cast melee abilities.

Here’s my thinking:
- glass canon ranged doesn’t work because 2/5 classes have projectile defenses. Going more glass canon won’t help because they just absorb projectiles
- instead of trying to boost survivability with heavy and mitigation do it through block, then reduce the cost with jewellery and one handed and shield
- ground effects are the most powerful aoe abilities so use twisting
- instead of dipping into melee lines for their cc immunity, use block instead since blocking makes you immune to targeted cc
- dark cloak is a strong heal, but if people go too glass canon it doesn’t work because incoming damage is stronger than the healing it does
- Light for pen and recovery will be required for dps, but overall mitigation through block casting will allow you to stay more aggressive because your overall mitigation will be high
- let’s be honest, glass canon rdps are basicly being carried these days (bow dps and ranged magblades) because they require a front line person to be effective. You’d be stepping up to help your team
- Magblade dps is weak atm, but the tanking and healing abilities are still okay

My guess? Near zero damage and only mediocre survivability with that. You want to do damage with 1H+S, you better be stam and able to do Light Attack / Surprise Attack / Bash. Block casting is too low damage and you are charged block cost every 1/4 second this patch (used to be 1/2 second before Murkmire). Best thing is to put your build idea into UESP and see where the block cost ends up. 3x block cost reduction glyphs are a big sacrifice.

I'd say even Fortified Brass is better than Buffer of the Swift. The 5-piece bonus of Brass is about 8%, but that 8% is additive with your resistances, whereas the 10% from Buffer of the Swift is bound to be multiplicative. I'd say Cyrodiil's Crest is the best set, though.

For what it's worth, I have been experimenting with a tanky off-meta stamblade. Troll King, Impregnable, Fasalla's Guile, all medium, all Well-Fitted, all stamina cost reduction enchants. This has 3K+ crit resist and 60% defile in CP. It being me, I use Swift jewelry, but there is a logic to that, as you must stay on top of people for Fasalla. Does it work great? Nah. Works OK against some builds, but fails against shielding sorcs or templars with Pirate Skeleton, who are already defiling themselves. It's a really brawly build, though, and able to dodge roll about 15 times in a row, which is fun (might have been wearing some Infused cost reduction jewelry when I tested that).

I ran s/b on my magblade for close to 3 years now. Pure permablocking is no longer a thing and dont even bother to try it on a magblade, this was only sufficient to do with old leeching strikes. HOWEVER, shackle + BS together with the STAM morph of leeching strikes actually provides a crap ton of stam sustain, which I used to block on demand and to do the bash combos. 4 Sturdy and 1 block cost reduction (which also decreses bash cost) works perfect for that playstyle, however I dropped it since the light attack damage got increased and we cant benefit from that on s/b sadly.. But if you want to go for a saptankish playstyle in group play, its perfectly fine and I suggest you to try it!

The reason I don't like Leeching Strikes is because it uses weapon crit parameters for the heal, so you're nerfing your healing relative to Siphoning Attacks. I do agree that having a stamina sustain skill is really nice on a magicka class, though, and am using the Bull Netch on my magden.

Iskiab

Buffer of the swift is superior to fortified brass if you end up with less than 14500 unpenetrated resistances, plus the 10 percent less player damage reduces the damage from attacks that ignore resistances. I’ve tried both sets and prefer buffer on light for survivability.

Sap’s decent but I find the heal meh and the magicka cost high. Have you tried 3x block cost reduction? A mag tank was mentioning doing vets with 3x block reduction and having enough stamina to rapids between encounters. I was surprised, but apparently stacking reductions really reduces the cost.

Thing about pvp is spell power and tooltip values are good, but really penetration is better. People use 2x protective jewellery in pvp all the time so I don’t see why 3x block reduction would kill your dps. Burst yes, but damage no.

Besides, there are no good ranged pvp burst builds because of projectile absorptions/reflections. Basicly if a DK or Warden wants to be invulnerable against you they can do it with a button press every 2 attacks. I’ve been leveling a magwarden and it’s hilarious, so many players use bow builds and they’re basicly free kills.

fred4

If you invest heavily into block cost reduction, you start to approach zero and perma-blocking becomes viable. This is where UESP is invaluable to see where the best tradeoff between glyphs, Sturdy and CP is. My knowledge is limited here, but I would say PvE and PvP are not directly comparable. A PvE tank facing a boss doesn't get hit that often. He just has to withstand the big hits. A PvP tank being hit by multiple players, or simply a templar spamming Sweeps or a stamsorc spamming Flurry, will get charged the block cost every 1/4 second. I have tried perma-blocking tanks in PvP, which have been viable. What I'm unsure about is making a well-rounded build that would block cast a lot. And if it isn't a lot, then just going with 1H+S without block cost reduction enchants and maybe half Sturdy gear will be enough. 1H+S already feels tankier, even when you don't block. What I find nice in a light or medium build is blocking only certain things that can otherwise be hard to deal with, such as Soul Assault.

exeeter702

SpiderCultist wrote: »

I came over here just to say dark cloak is an abomination to NBs stealthy nature and whoever uses dark cloak needs to go play another class, for real.

Strife and Malevolent Offering are also disgraces in their current state.

I can't care less if Strife was overperforming in PvE, they ruined the bloodmage concept with these 3 changes and dmg shields nerfs.

The problem you have is assuming NBs are stealth based as a rule, which is fundamentally false. The dark cloak change is was very good and thematically in line with NBs regardless of your personal opinion.

Malevolent offering was one of the best things to happen to my Magblade whom i have been playing since beta. To think malevolent offering, an insanely powerful high risk high reward selfless burst heal is in any way a disgrace is sheer ignorance. What was a joke was a ranged unblockable hard CC that broke when a blade of grass brushed against the targets ankle, and essentially served as a free CC immunity buff for enemies since they rarely had to spend stam to break free themselves, and a combo tool that only worked on vegetables.

Yes the strife changes were pretty bunk though.

ChefZero

exeeter702 wrote: »

The problem you have is assuming NBs are stealth based as a rule, which is fundamentally false. The dsrk cloak change is was very good and thematically in line with NBs regardless of your personal opinion.

Yes but ZOS started something with this change and didn't finish it. Dark Cloak lacks synergies with the the kit or the passives.

ChefZero

Datthaw wrote: »

Yeah I'm not a fan of nb hybrids. I'm the end you build a strange build that doesn't have the utility of a magnb or the burst of a stam. I will say I have yet to actually play one, but I have theory crafed alot of them and they always end with "might as well just go full stamblade" or " might as well go full magblade".

Even stuff like concealed, it looks good on paper, more movement speed w/e. But you miss out on that fracture from suprise so that off the bat is like 5k pen loss. That is unless you slot a major breech skill but then you have one skill for the price of two. And it is really needed, the cloak speed? Wth a bosmer stamnb it's just roll > cloak > stealth, with that movement speed, is concealed even worth it? Plus most stamnb are vamp anyway so they already have good movement speed in stealth. Vigor would be nice but you're still stuck layering hots without a decent burst. Fm heals are kinda trash anyway so you could use Rally for a burst but then what's the point of two hand melee without snare removal? Gonna need those hots when you cant move.

Idk there just doesn't seem to be much synnergy for nb hybrid in my eyes

With the changes to Khajit and shadow mundus I could imagine a nasty onslaught build with 2h + restro, balorgh + pelinals + TBS

exeeter702

ChefZero wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

The problem you have is assuming NBs are stealth based as a rule, which is fundamentally false. The dsrk cloak change is was very good and thematically in line with NBs regardless of your personal opinion.

Yes but ZOS started something with this change and didn't finish it. Dark Cloak lacks synergies with the the kit or the passives.

I can see that to an extent. However on the other hand, dark cloak, a healing and defensive tool that gains most mileage from higher hp builds, provides a percentage increase to health for slotting it, and when used activates NBs major ward and resolve passive so there is some synergy promoting its use for NB tanks.

Datthaw

The problem with dark cloak atm is building heavy armor damage is near impossible so it's hard to get the right tool tip for good heals and keep damage and sustain. If you want to kill stuff you go shadow cloak, you want to troll go dark cloak.

exeeter702

Datthaw wrote: »

The problem with dark cloak atm is building heavy armor damage is near impossible so it's hard to get the right tool tip for good heals and keep damage and sustain. If you want to kill stuff you go shadow cloak, you want to troll go dark cloak.

Yeah there are some who believe at 25k hp, the heal is respectable enough. Im not of that camp. And reaching adequate levels of hp to bring the heal to a noticeable spot, you really have to eat into your magicka pool or run a cheeky HP set.

Datthaw

exeeter702 wrote: »

Datthaw wrote: »

The problem with dark cloak atm is building heavy armor damage is near impossible so it's hard to get the right tool tip for good heals and keep damage and sustain. If you want to kill stuff you go shadow cloak, you want to troll go dark cloak.

Yeah there are some who believe at 25k hp, the heal is respectable enough. Im not of that camp. And reaching adequate levels of hp to bring the heal to a noticeable spot, you really have to eat into your magicka pool or run a cheeky HP set.

Yeah I've run some wonky builds this patch. I ran one with plague doctor to see what the heal could really do. The funniest one I build was plague doctor, armor master, blood spawn

But on the real though, my problem with dark cloak is the fact it's a 3s hot. What I have found its yoy either need to front bar it and keep it up all the time or you will have trouble transition off the defensive. You can make it work well with shade mobility but you Wil have to play that game well. If you run it heavy then yoy will have trouble with damage and sustain. If you run it light you will miss the heavy allndrmor buff for healing but have a shield. At that point what do you buff? mag so your shield is stronger and protects the weaker hot? Or build into hp so you have a better hit and don't worry about the shield? And while this is going on where is your sustain and damage coming from.

In the end, imo, it's not worth building into shields or hp for dark cloak atm. Have decent sustain, and work on mobility and damage. It's the only thing we can still do.

Iskiab

Datthaw wrote: »

The problem with dark cloak atm is building heavy armor damage is near impossible so it's hard to get the right tool tip for good heals and keep damage and sustain. If you want to kill stuff you go shadow cloak, you want to troll go dark cloak.

Agreed, heavy armour for damage is not worth it. It’s a matter of light armour being too ‘good’. You get a lot of benefits for wearing light: pen, crit, recovery. Heavy just can’t compare, even though in reality tooltips are balanced assuming players have these buffs, so it’s ‘so good’ leading to balance passes making it required. Heck, 5x light gives more pen than the 5 piece spinners pen bonus.

If block won’t work, what about something simple like two monster helm 1 piece bonus’ for resists? I was looking at helms the other day and the 1 piece bonus’ on tanking sets looked over budgeted. Wear 5x light with two resistances 1 piece bonus’. Each 1 piece bonus is like 2x protective traits. Wear light but get your resistances past heavy.

Xsorus

Jeezye wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Jeezye wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Thinking of trying something like this on my Magblade

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=119696

yeah man I've played alot around with hybrid setups for the magblade too, so we get access to forward momentum heals, better light attack damage in melee and of course vigor.

However, if you fully think this trough, you'll just end up with a stamblade that maybe uses cripple to complement damage. Especially because medium is the goto armor for pelinals builds I doesnt make much sense to run the magicka counterparts anymore...

This is more using the Stamina heals then actually using stamina abilities for damage. It also allows me to push up my spell damage to obscene levels as well. Rolling around with a 12k delve concealed weapon is fun.

Ohh I didnt see you run 5 light, thought you were going 5 medium. In that case magskills actually make more sense to use, but you loose that vital 15% wep/spelldmg bonus of medium armor. Might be worth the trade off, but all my pelinals builds used medium so far so I cant tell from experience - though I have seen a few LA hybrid setups.

you gotta ask yourself though, is it worth trading a 5 piece just for having (subpar) vigor und momentum heals? If I was you, I'd maybe kick in a few axes in your build to leverage passive bleeds. Maybe you find a few more synergies to go with high wep dmg. So far it wasnt worth the trade off for me on paper

The spell pen and critical and reduced cost are all better then running 5 medium... works same way with magicka dk hybrid builds. You’re also not just trading for the heals, and they are exactly subpar... both end up being pretty good and you can stack it with a third from a restro staff. Anyway you’re mainly getting a boat load of easy to get spell power.... I’ve ran similar builds like this before using things like axiom and such and this is actually comparable... in fact the effective spell damage is higher. You can run bleeds though, it might actually be worth it... I’m not sure.

mav1234

Xsorus wrote: »

Jeezye wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Jeezye wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Thinking of trying something like this on my Magblade

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=119696

yeah man I've played alot around with hybrid setups for the magblade too, so we get access to forward momentum heals, better light attack damage in melee and of course vigor.

However, if you fully think this trough, you'll just end up with a stamblade that maybe uses cripple to complement damage. Especially because medium is the goto armor for pelinals builds I doesnt make much sense to run the magicka counterparts anymore...

This is more using the Stamina heals then actually using stamina abilities for damage. It also allows me to push up my spell damage to obscene levels as well. Rolling around with a 12k delve concealed weapon is fun.

Ohh I didnt see you run 5 light, thought you were going 5 medium. In that case magskills actually make more sense to use, but you loose that vital 15% wep/spelldmg bonus of medium armor. Might be worth the trade off, but all my pelinals builds used medium so far so I cant tell from experience - though I have seen a few LA hybrid setups.

you gotta ask yourself though, is it worth trading a 5 piece just for having (subpar) vigor und momentum heals? If I was you, I'd maybe kick in a few axes in your build to leverage passive bleeds. Maybe you find a few more synergies to go with high wep dmg. So far it wasnt worth the trade off for me on paper

The spell pen and critical and reduced cost are all better then running 5 medium... works same way with magicka dk hybrid builds. You’re also not just trading for the heals, and they are exactly subpar... both end up being pretty good and you can stack it with a third from a restro staff. Anyway you’re mainly getting a boat load of easy to get spell power.... I’ve ran similar builds like this before using things like axiom and such and this is actually comparable... in fact the effective spell damage is higher. You can run bleeds though, it might actually be worth it... I’m not sure.

I've run hybrid 'mag' blade quite a bit, and while it was fun, it felt like a strictly inferior version of stamblade. Yes, your tooltips are pretty awesome and you save bar space since FM gives you Major Brutality, relative to other melee magblade variants, but you really don't 'gain' anything other than mutagen relative to stam (which is pretty meh overall). relative to other melee mag variants, though, you do gain easy and effective fm access.... which is pretty nice..

I never did try Shackle, but ran 7th/pelinals and lich/pelinals. for the 7th version I run a maelstrom resto backbar for sustain. also, I found engine guardian helped a lot with sustain issues so maybe if you run your shackle variant with those set options you won't need the extra sustain tools I needed. This was also prior to the racial changes, so it could certainly be more effective now.

Xsorus

mav1234 wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Jeezye wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Jeezye wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Thinking of trying something like this on my Magblade

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=119696

yeah man I've played alot around with hybrid setups for the magblade too, so we get access to forward momentum heals, better light attack damage in melee and of course vigor.

However, if you fully think this trough, you'll just end up with a stamblade that maybe uses cripple to complement damage. Especially because medium is the goto armor for pelinals builds I doesnt make much sense to run the magicka counterparts anymore...

This is more using the Stamina heals then actually using stamina abilities for damage. It also allows me to push up my spell damage to obscene levels as well. Rolling around with a 12k delve concealed weapon is fun.

Ohh I didnt see you run 5 light, thought you were going 5 medium. In that case magskills actually make more sense to use, but you loose that vital 15% wep/spelldmg bonus of medium armor. Might be worth the trade off, but all my pelinals builds used medium so far so I cant tell from experience - though I have seen a few LA hybrid setups.

you gotta ask yourself though, is it worth trading a 5 piece just for having (subpar) vigor und momentum heals? If I was you, I'd maybe kick in a few axes in your build to leverage passive bleeds. Maybe you find a few more synergies to go with high wep dmg. So far it wasnt worth the trade off for me on paper

The spell pen and critical and reduced cost are all better then running 5 medium... works same way with magicka dk hybrid builds. You’re also not just trading for the heals, and they are exactly subpar... both end up being pretty good and you can stack it with a third from a restro staff. Anyway you’re mainly getting a boat load of easy to get spell power.... I’ve ran similar builds like this before using things like axiom and such and this is actually comparable... in fact the effective spell damage is higher. You can run bleeds though, it might actually be worth it... I’m not sure.

I've run hybrid 'mag' blade quite a bit, and while it was fun, it felt like a strictly inferior version of stamblade. Yes, your tooltips are pretty awesome and you save bar space since FM gives you Major Brutality, relative to other melee magblade variants, but you really don't 'gain' anything other than mutagen relative to stam (which is pretty meh overall). relative to other melee mag variants, though, you do gain easy and effective fm access.... which is pretty nice..

I never did try Shackle, but ran 7th/pelinals and lich/pelinals. for the 7th version I run a maelstrom resto backbar for sustain. also, I found engine guardian helped a lot with sustain issues so maybe if you run your shackle variant with those set options you won't need the extra sustain tools I needed. This was also prior to the racial changes, so it could certainly be more effective now.

Yea, I worry sustain might suck but i think it should be ok. I could swap out monster helms to something else but don’t know what I’d do.