PLEASE HELP MAGBLADE!

Fiktius

ChefZero wrote: »

Fiktius wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

For crit either mother’s sorrow if you want to invest heavy in crit, or combat physician with swallow soul?

I tried Mother's Sorrow too. I really liked crits which that set provided. I was playing with that set in BGs and was doing fine in Sotha too, but when I entered into Shor and met first stam player with Fury set on, his weapon damage went in steroids very very quickly. That reminded me that Fury meta alone does not play in favor of crit sets.
Of course this is preference question, but personally that Fury popularity made me drop idea of crit builds in CP campaigns right away and I took a set in use, which boosts pure damage without focusing on crits.

Sounds like bringing a knife to a gun fight

Pretty much. Those stam users do not mind enemies using crit builds against them.

Jeezye

well tbh in most cases you'll have a fully stacked fury player anyways if you decide to fight them. I wouln't really take that as a con to critbuilds, and I find there's not too many players left running fury as most have switched to seventh including myself.

Regarding critbuilds, especially in no CP I think torugs pact might come really handy as weapon enchats are basically free crittable procs. There's a build out there of kristofer eso with sorrow + torugs, which does insane damage but is realy squishy.

I also don't like torugs requires infused trait as it further drops crit rating...

Iskiab

Jeezye wrote: »

Regarding critbuilds, especially in no CP I think torugs pact might come really handy as weapon enchats are basically free crittable procs. There's a build out there of kristofer eso with sorrow + torugs, which does insane damage but is realy squishy.

I also don't like torugs requires infused trait as it further drops crit rating...

Would this be using dark cloak and race for time? With shadowy disguise I imagine the build would suffer if you’re crit is too high because of the opportunity cost.

Jeezye

Iskiab wrote: »

Jeezye wrote: »

Regarding critbuilds, especially in no CP I think torugs pact might come really handy as weapon enchats are basically free crittable procs. There's a build out there of kristofer eso with sorrow + torugs, which does insane damage but is realy squishy.

I also don't like torugs requires infused trait as it further drops crit rating...

Would this be using dark cloak and race for time? With shadowy disguise I imagine the build would suffer if you’re crit is too high because of the opportunity cost.

tbh I gave up on playing a tanky dark cloak playstyle, so my next build will be with regular cloak. and yes definitly race against time for crit damage and cloak speed as well. Im just not sure of sets yet

btw I want to give radiant magelight a try in this combination since its a really nice hardcounter to all the cloakblades and snipe spammers while providing the vital prophecy buff

stamdammered

Is it me or has the AOE gotten 5x worse with wrathstone? I seem to notice ballgroups and bleed builds dominating in every BG, magblade just feels much worse since the update for some reason.

Datthaw

Maybe if you build around dots and skoria with poisons and what not does crit make any sense to me, but for magnb I'm not a fan of focusing on crit.

The reason I'm not a fan of a set like mother sorrow is you're building into crit chance on the class that can proc a crit on demand. If I need that mercy to proc you better believe I'm animation canceling cloak.

So you may have some success with higher crit on dot builds but it is also the most mitigated with direct resist from traits and cp along with sets like impreg. So imo a low damage high crit dot build gets esily mitigated by crit resist and hots. Especially when in the magnb tool kit. We stack cripple....clench....and....? poisons? It's not like dot stacking on a magdk. I tried a heavy dot stack build this patch and while tanky and very fun it lacked the bar space for any decent burst to take someone down.

Noctus

nvm

Noctus

stamdammered wrote: »

Is it me or has the AOE gotten 5x worse with wrathstone? I seem to notice ballgroups and bleed builds dominating in every BG, magblade just feels much worse since the update for some reason.

reason is magblade dmg is easy to mitigate becouse its all projectile based like our light attacks which we need to proc certain effects like siphon or assasins will. worst case is a dk with sword and shield and reflective scales ... thats gg.

also our burst is low compared to stamina version and we got a nerf on twisting path + resto staff shield nerf.

at the moment magblade is just in a bad position

Iskiab

Noctus wrote: »

stamdammered wrote: »

Is it me or has the AOE gotten 5x worse with wrathstone? I seem to notice ballgroups and bleed builds dominating in every BG, magblade just feels much worse since the update for some reason.

reason is magblade dmg is easy to mitigate becouse its all projectile based like our light attacks which we need to proc certain effects like siphon or assasins will. worst case is a dk with sword and shield and reflective scales ... thats gg.

also our burst is low compared to stamina version and we got a nerf on twisting path + resto staff shield nerf.

at the moment magblade is just in a bad position

Agreed, I went to crushing because it can’t be reflected but encountered the problem of lack of self healing:

Siphoning attacks - light attacks reflectable
Refreshing path - area too small
Swallow Soul - reflectable

Still, crush spam combined with Asylum/BRP staff and iceheart can be decent. Add in blockade and twisting and it might be enough if you build for survivability and speed.. along with disguise.

Someone else mentioned aoe spam. For sure, if you’re going to try to kite ice blockade is really nice. BGs for me are about getting around reflections, I’m even considering S&B and getting in on the reflection game myself with defensive stance and shacklebreaker.

Think I’d rather always be decent then feast or famine based on my opponents. Using a high regen build and cloak I have a screen shot of me going 21-1... but in other games I’ve ended up with a KvD less than one, building around projectiles just isn’t reliable.

stamdammered

Noctus wrote: »

stamdammered wrote: »

Is it me or has the AOE gotten 5x worse with wrathstone? I seem to notice ballgroups and bleed builds dominating in every BG, magblade just feels much worse since the update for some reason.

reason is magblade dmg is easy to mitigate becouse its all projectile based like our light attacks which we need to proc certain effects like siphon or assasins will. worst case is a dk with sword and shield and reflective scales ... thats gg.

also our burst is low compared to stamina version and we got a nerf on twisting path + resto staff shield nerf.

at the moment magblade is just in a bad position

Yeah, I know. Its just strange, I was able to pull 700k avg damage (up to 1m on good rounds) and 10+ kills most games on bgs pre wrathstone and now I’m averaging about 1/2 that. I just feel so much weaker and not sure why, I used to feel comfortable in a 1v1 with anyone but magdks and now I find myself kiting the second anyone hits me. Could’ve been a bad a couple days I gusss but something seems very different from murkmire to wrathstone.

EDIT: I play altmer and use force pulse as my main spammable because it doesnt reflect. I have swallow on the bar in case I need some off healing but don’t use it as much

Iskiab

stamdammered wrote: »

Noctus wrote: »

stamdammered wrote: »

Is it me or has the AOE gotten 5x worse with wrathstone? I seem to notice ballgroups and bleed builds dominating in every BG, magblade just feels much worse since the update for some reason.

reason is magblade dmg is easy to mitigate becouse its all projectile based like our light attacks which we need to proc certain effects like siphon or assasins will. worst case is a dk with sword and shield and reflective scales ... thats gg.

also our burst is low compared to stamina version and we got a nerf on twisting path + resto staff shield nerf.

at the moment magblade is just in a bad position

Yeah, I know. Its just strange, I was able to pull 700k avg damage (up to 1m on good rounds) and 10+ kills most games on bgs pre wrathstone and now I’m averaging about 1/2 that. I just feel so much weaker and not sure why, I used to feel comfortable in a 1v1 with anyone but magdks and now I find myself kiting the second anyone hits me. Could’ve been a bad a couple days I gusss but something seems very different from murkmire to wrathstone.

EDIT: I play altmer and use force pulse as my main spammable because it doesnt reflect. I have swallow on the bar in case I need some off healing but don’t use it as much

Are you a vampire? Vulnerabilities were changed so you take the % increased damage based on the pre-mitigation amount. That means if you’re a vampire they’re getting a full 25 percent or whatever of their tooltip damage tacked on to their end damage no matter what defenses you have.

Plus sorcs got a buff. One through their abilities being changed and an indirect one because lightning’s off balance extra damage is a lot more powerful.

It does make weapon staff choice more difficult now. Fire to blow up vampires quickly, lightning for better heavy attacks and off balance, or ice for ele blockade.

Jeezye

Iskiab wrote: »

stamdammered wrote: »

Noctus wrote: »

stamdammered wrote: »

Is it me or has the AOE gotten 5x worse with wrathstone? I seem to notice ballgroups and bleed builds dominating in every BG, magblade just feels much worse since the update for some reason.

reason is magblade dmg is easy to mitigate becouse its all projectile based like our light attacks which we need to proc certain effects like siphon or assasins will. worst case is a dk with sword and shield and reflective scales ... thats gg.

also our burst is low compared to stamina version and we got a nerf on twisting path + resto staff shield nerf.

at the moment magblade is just in a bad position

Yeah, I know. Its just strange, I was able to pull 700k avg damage (up to 1m on good rounds) and 10+ kills most games on bgs pre wrathstone and now I’m averaging about 1/2 that. I just feel so much weaker and not sure why, I used to feel comfortable in a 1v1 with anyone but magdks and now I find myself kiting the second anyone hits me. Could’ve been a bad a couple days I gusss but something seems very different from murkmire to wrathstone.

EDIT: I play altmer and use force pulse as my main spammable because it doesnt reflect. I have swallow on the bar in case I need some off healing but don’t use it as much

Are you a vampire? Vulnerabilities were changed so you take the % increased damage based on the pre-mitigation amount. That means if you’re a vampire they’re getting a full 25 percent or whatever of their tooltip damage tacked on to their end damage no matter what defenses you have.

Plus sorcs got a buff. One through their abilities being changed and an indirect one because lightning’s off balance extra damage is a lot more powerful.

It does make weapon staff choice more difficult now. Fire to blow up vampires quickly, lightning for better heavy attacks and off balance, or ice for ele blockade.

wait I didnt know damage calculations were changed?! In fact I am and always did run vamp and even with major protection and decent resistances I felt everyone is shredding through my like butter. Damn I need to test that, though vamp has always been a crucial playstyle on my magblade and I love mist form

HowlKimchi

Jeezye wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

stamdammered wrote: »

Noctus wrote: »

stamdammered wrote: »

Is it me or has the AOE gotten 5x worse with wrathstone? I seem to notice ballgroups and bleed builds dominating in every BG, magblade just feels much worse since the update for some reason.

reason is magblade dmg is easy to mitigate becouse its all projectile based like our light attacks which we need to proc certain effects like siphon or assasins will. worst case is a dk with sword and shield and reflective scales ... thats gg.

also our burst is low compared to stamina version and we got a nerf on twisting path + resto staff shield nerf.

at the moment magblade is just in a bad position

Yeah, I know. Its just strange, I was able to pull 700k avg damage (up to 1m on good rounds) and 10+ kills most games on bgs pre wrathstone and now I’m averaging about 1/2 that. I just feel so much weaker and not sure why, I used to feel comfortable in a 1v1 with anyone but magdks and now I find myself kiting the second anyone hits me. Could’ve been a bad a couple days I gusss but something seems very different from murkmire to wrathstone.

EDIT: I play altmer and use force pulse as my main spammable because it doesnt reflect. I have swallow on the bar in case I need some off healing but don’t use it as much

Are you a vampire? Vulnerabilities were changed so you take the % increased damage based on the pre-mitigation amount. That means if you’re a vampire they’re getting a full 25 percent or whatever of their tooltip damage tacked on to their end damage no matter what defenses you have.

Plus sorcs got a buff. One through their abilities being changed and an indirect one because lightning’s off balance extra damage is a lot more powerful.

It does make weapon staff choice more difficult now. Fire to blow up vampires quickly, lightning for better heavy attacks and off balance, or ice for ele blockade.

wait I didnt know damage calculations were changed?! In fact I am and always did run vamp and even with major protection and decent resistances I felt everyone is shredding through my like butter. Damn I need to test that, though vamp has always been a crucial playstyle on my magblade and I love mist form

We can't rely on being a vampire as easily as magicka templars can because we're too squishy, but on the plus side, we get to have mobility because of mist.

Hmmm that got me thinking. If ranged magblades are already superweak to magDKs that we just actively avoid them, being even weaker to them at the benefit of having mobility may not be so bad. lol

Iskiab

Well MagDKs are more reliant on being a vampire for sustain than NBs. If you have a typical pvp spec with resistances etc, you’re now taking more fire damage from being a stage 4 vampire then you would mitigate with minor and major protection combined.

If you switch to crushing with a high regen build you can fight DKs. Just cloak like crazy, if you’re caught by a stun they win. I’d bet most have stuck with vampire and will rely on wings for mitigation, crushing builds should have a lot more punch.

Datthaw

I ran destro spammable for a bit and I'll say, to me it had the same problem as concealed when people talk about is vs dks.

I now have a spammable that can hit dks. But I still have a reflected dot ability, a reflected burst ability and I'm slamming myself with light attack weaves. So you basicly resort to just spamming one skill to do any damage, this will not take down a decent magdk. Sure you could run like ele block or something, bgs it's probably a good idea, but cyro? Good luck with ground aoe's unless you're in a tower. It's just not enough sustained pressure to take down a dk who can easily out heal that pressure with just embers and lash procs.

The way I think about swallow soul and why the reduced healing really sucks is this. Yes you are hurting youself with a reflected spammable l, but, also healing yourself. Along with that you now have double the pressure on the dks wings which they normally back bar. If I can keep range and weave I have them on back bar every 3-4 second casting wings. This tends to work well because alot of time they let wings fall when they try to go offensive, that's when it's time for the old fear soul harvest mercy combo comes in.


Or I just run away...

Datthaw

Also fear trap is really really good for all of these melee specs. You can troll them like sorc mines and it's great to have a "free" stun outside of the gcd.

Knootewoot

So, my question is...

If i am a DK and i shoot clench to another DK and we both flappy wings... does the clench keep bouncing of both of use like we are playing tennis?

Or can it only be reflected once?

Datthaw

Pretty su r you can play pong with it

Jeezye

Knootewoot wrote: »

So, my question is...

If i am a DK and i shoot clench to another DK and we both flappy wings... does the clench keep bouncing of both of use like we are playing tennis?

Or can it only be reflected once?

you can

Jeezye

Iskiab wrote: »

Well MagDKs are more reliant on being a vampire for sustain than NBs. If you have a typical pvp spec with resistances etc, you’re now taking more fire damage from being a stage 4 vampire then you would mitigate with minor and major protection combined.

If you switch to crushing with a high regen build you can fight DKs. Just cloak like crazy, if you’re caught by a stun they win. I’d bet most have stuck with vampire and will rely on wings for mitigation, crushing builds should have a lot more punch.

actually I played with the thought of dropping vamp for a while now in favor to access higher HP regen with citrus/orzorg. This might be just another kick to my old playstyle, screw this patch

ChefZero

Datthaw wrote: »

Also fear trap is really really good for all of these melee specs. You can troll them like sorc mines and it's great to have a "free" stun outside of the gcd.

Fear trap and reapers mark are the most underestimated skills of NB.

HowlKimchi

ChefZero wrote: »

Datthaw wrote: »

Also fear trap is really really good for all of these melee specs. You can troll them like sorc mines and it's great to have a "free" stun outside of the gcd.

Fear trap and reapers mark are the most underestimated skills of NB.

fear trap is nice having played with it a bit but i really need the cc on demand of mass hysteria to hit the soul harvest + bow combo

Jeezye

ChefZero wrote: »

Datthaw wrote: »

Also fear trap is really really good for all of these melee specs. You can troll them like sorc mines and it's great to have a "free" stun outside of the gcd.

Fear trap and reapers mark are the most underestimated skills of NB.

tbh I always wanted to do a reapers mark build, since it provides the huge damage bonus and the much needed full health burst heal. I even ran jorvuld to increase buff duration, but over all I coulnt make it to reliably proc reapers, especially because nightblade by default struggle to kill stuff and you need to set every kill up with it. im still running it but its hard to justify a skillslot..

Iskiab

Reapers is good if you don’t use ele drain. 5k magicka resists is a lot, and against multiple opponents the damage buff is nice if your opponent dies.

Problem with using it in BGs I found was how bursty BG pvp is, and fitting a Siphoning skill on your front bar. I have crippling but rarely use it, anyways it’s hard to fit on your bar. Best used if you’re ganking.

Fear trap isn’t as good as mass hysteria from my experience. If you’re playing with others you can’t really lay down traps and kite back over them and play well in a group setting.

fred4

Knootewoot wrote: »

So, my question is...

If i am a DK and i shoot clench to another DK and we both flappy wings... does the clench keep bouncing of both of use like we are playing tennis?

Or can it only be reflected once?

Once upon a time the game allowed two reflections. Now only once.

Noctus

Iskiab wrote: »

Reapers is good if you don’t use ele drain. 5k magicka resists is a lot, and against multiple opponents the damage buff is nice if your opponent dies.

Problem with using it in BGs I found was how bursty BG pvp is, and fitting a Siphoning skill on your front bar. I have crippling but rarely use it, anyways it’s hard to fit on your bar. Best used if you’re ganking.

compared to eledrain its rly bad in my opinion. reapers mark used to be good when it revealed the target for all of its duration. nowadays it has nothing going for it. if it would give a healing debuff people would use it again. it needs something that is active while the target is alive.

if u mark someone its not 100 % save that u kill him so effects that occure after the death of the target are unreliable and it also gives away that u gonna try to kill them so they shield up allready and watch out for ur attack.

fred4

Jeezye wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Well MagDKs are more reliant on being a vampire for sustain than NBs. If you have a typical pvp spec with resistances etc, you’re now taking more fire damage from being a stage 4 vampire then you would mitigate with minor and major protection combined.

If you switch to crushing with a high regen build you can fight DKs. Just cloak like crazy, if you’re caught by a stun they win. I’d bet most have stuck with vampire and will rely on wings for mitigation, crushing builds should have a lot more punch.

actually I played with the thought of dropping vamp for a while now in favor to access higher HP regen with citrus/orzorg. This might be just another kick to my old playstyle, screw this patch

It started with the Steed mundus being buffed and Swift nerfed. Now many people try to make the most of that mundus + gold food, at which point it becomes worthwhile to invest some points into Healthy and add Troll King as needed.

ChefZero

Jeezye wrote: »

ChefZero wrote: »

Datthaw wrote: »

Also fear trap is really really good for all of these melee specs. You can troll them like sorc mines and it's great to have a "free" stun outside of the gcd.

Fear trap and reapers mark are the most underestimated skills of NB.

tbh I always wanted to do a reapers mark build, since it provides the huge damage bonus and the much needed full health burst heal. I even ran jorvuld to increase buff duration, but over all I coulnt make it to reliably proc reapers, especially because nightblade by default struggle to kill stuff and you need to set every kill up with it. im still running it but its hard to justify a skillslot..

I don't use reapers mark on the target I want to kill primary rather than on NPC's and random enemies in execute range.

@Iskiab yes I wouldn't recommend it in BGs.

brandonv516

I can't find enough bar space for ED or RM. I need everything I have to be competitive:

FB
Force Pulse
Race Against Time
Destructive Reach
Impale
Merciless

BB
Cloak
Healing Ward
Fear
Shade
Siphoning Attacks

casparian

brandonv516 wrote: »

I can't find enough bar space for ED or RM. I need everything I have to be competitive:

FB
Force Pulse
Race Against Time
Destructive Reach
Impale
Merciless

BB
Cloak
Healing Ward
Fear
Shade
Siphoning Attacks

Your only heal is Siphoning Attacks. How do you survive? Just cloak and leave when people look at you?