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PLEASE HELP MAGBLADE!

  • HowlKimchi
    HowlKimchi
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    fred4 wrote: »
    HaruKamui wrote: »
    Jeezye wrote: »
    HaruKamui wrote: »
    Have you guys tried running a high recovery build? I'm playing around with it and it's very versatile. With high health recovery with hots, just making a bit of space is enough to get to full health.

    The sustained damage is also nice because of torug's + infused. I'm not sure yet what the best enchant for damage is. Oblivion or shock maybe? Oblivion has a 3k tooltip while shock has a 6.4k tooltip.

    Having very high health recovery is nice since it's always active, and you get a free slot. I'm able to run tripots and still have major prophecy and sorcery.

    Check it out here:
    Khajit: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=126726
    Dunmer: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=126732

    I think health recovery is great to complement survivability on magblade because of the class recovery boosts. I wouldn't specifically build for it though, maybe run citrus filet/bear haunch, potentially steed or one setbonus.

    Thinking of doing a high crit torugs setup for BGs, maybe with shadow mundus, but thats just getting carried by sets really.

    Why wont it be worth building in to? It works great with cloak and I still have good damage because I'm able to run damage sets on light armor. The high stam recovery is also nice for getting those rolls in. I find Healing Ward to be okay as an "oh ***" button with all the hots and health recovery.
    I run these kind of setups on my magplar and magden, e.g. defensive monster set + 2x damage sets + vMA resto + Protective jewelry. Duelled a magplar recently. Their damage is just high. Sweeps, Birds and Shalks hit harder than Swallow Soul with similar specs, I think. I could be wrong. I know Sweeps is clunky and has a cast time, but it also has a 12K+ tooltip and activates Burning Light. Everyone likes to complain about Incap / Soul Harvest, but I think NB is actually quite dependent on that ulti to get the 20% damage bonus.

    No question using Troll King plus a shield, be it Dampen or Healing Ward, is nice. I love Troll King + Forward Momentum, but I felt I had to drop it in my build, because I wasn't doing enough damage. The thing about Torug's Pact, as well, is that in order to take full advantage you have to do partial heavies and get that 1.4 second timing right. That's a barrier for me personally at least. I loathe heavy attacks. I think just running Infused is good value already and prefer different damage sets.

    Fair points. In my experience, sustained damage is quite decent with weaving partially charged heavies and swallow soul with the torug’s shock enchant. My build is not yet finished though as I still lack one protective jewelry trait. (Cant wait for campaign to end in 2 days), so I’m feeling a bit squishy still. I’m actually considering going all 3 protective. The burst with the delayed spectral bow +light attack+swallow soul+torug’s is NASTY though, IF it hits. And still, I do potato damage to wings spamming DKs.
    Jeezye wrote: »
    HaruKamui wrote: »
    Jeezye wrote: »
    HaruKamui wrote: »
    Have you guys tried running a high recovery build? I'm playing around with it and it's very versatile. With high health recovery with hots, just making a bit of space is enough to get to full health.

    The sustained damage is also nice because of torug's + infused. I'm not sure yet what the best enchant for damage is. Oblivion or shock maybe? Oblivion has a 3k tooltip while shock has a 6.4k tooltip.

    Having very high health recovery is nice since it's always active, and you get a free slot. I'm able to run tripots and still have major prophecy and sorcery.

    Check it out here:
    Khajit: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=126726
    Dunmer: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=126732

    I think health recovery is great to complement survivability on magblade because of the class recovery boosts. I wouldn't specifically build for it though, maybe run citrus filet/bear haunch, potentially steed or one setbonus.

    Thinking of doing a high crit torugs setup for BGs, maybe with shadow mundus, but thats just getting carried by sets really.

    Why wont it be worth building in to? It works great with cloak and I still have good damage because I'm able to run damage sets on light armor. The high stam recovery is also nice for getting those rolls in. I find Healing Ward to be okay as an "oh ***" button with all the hots and health recovery.

    Because in order to invest into HP recovery you give up on vital sustain/damage. TKs once piece is utter garbage and even with high stats magblade struggels to bring people down, so a proc set/ real tank set is likely the better alternative. not saying TK is bad, its a good choice, but I dont think its optimal one for magblades.

    With the tri recovery drinks and 2 damage sets in light armor, I feel like I cover the sustain/damage bases. I actually feel like having high damage, high recovery, and low max stats is a pretty nice flavor for an assassin-y class. My heavy attack + swallow soul out of stealth with incap kills a lot of potatos, but I can still do drawn out fights because of the high stam, health and mag recovery. Just cloaking once gives me 3.5k health, 2.2k mag and 1.2k stam. The only real weakness is I’m not as tanky as true tanky setups, and I can die easily from random siege and snipes. But that’s why I NEED to stay hidden and kite-y.

    previously @HaruKamui but I outgrew my weeb phase (probably)

    PC/NA - EP - Howl Bragi/Howl Kimchi
  • HowlKimchi
    HowlKimchi
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    Yep we're dead last on the latest poll. At this point we have nowhere to go but up on the next patches so there's that. Here's to hoping we get buffed but not lose our class identity

    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/463092/strongest-pvp-class/p1
    previously @HaruKamui but I outgrew my weeb phase (probably)

    PC/NA - EP - Howl Bragi/Howl Kimchi
  • fred4
    fred4
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    HaruKamui wrote: »
    Yep we're dead last on the latest poll. At this point we have nowhere to go but up on the next patches so there's that. Here's to hoping we get buffed but not lose our class identity

    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/463092/strongest-pvp-class/p1
    You got to wonder whether these polls have any basis in reality. They do in terms of what is popular, that's for sure, but look at magden for example. The class hasn't fundamentally changed since release, it's just taken people this long to figure out what to do with them. Has the game changed so much that they're more valuable, now, with all the speed nerfs? I don't know. I do not play a FOTM ice warden. All I can tell you is that people from my own faction were taken aback by my damage as well as the defensive capabilities of shields + Living Trellis, over a year ago. They never gave the class any credit. I watched a recent video of Kristofer ESO's, who I respect, and he said as much. Magden was always strong, just no one played it.

    Magsorcs being so downrated seems a knee-jerk reaction to me. I still see magsorcs who are strong 1vXers and seem to have no trouble staying at 100% health, as it's always been. Reality is, the shield changes were mainly targeted at sorcs and they were also the class most able to deal with that. You can correct me, if I'm wrong. I don't play magsorc, but my friend does and it's his most highly rated character for solo play.

    I think a lot depends on how you learnt the game. Which class did you play first, how did you evolve your playstyle, what are you comfortable with? Taking a build directly from YouTube rarely works well, at least not for me. My friend has a tanking background. He used to troll people, several good players or up to 15 potatoes at a time. That's not that easy. He knows how to manage his resources and it's made him very comfortable with a shielding sorc. The other character he tells me performs well for him is his stam DK. He gradually learnt how to do damage with his builds and balance them away from being pure tanks. These days he's as dangerous to duel as others in our guild.

    In my case, I figured out in One Tamriel that speed and flapping wings was a good defense on my stam DK. It's not a class I find competitive anymore, but I was never into the heavy armor blocking DK, which is where I suspect the class truly shines. As I still don't play all the classes nor all playstyles, I find it very hard to judge where the game balance truly is. Nothing gives you as much insight as seeing a class from the inside and the outside, playing it and playing against it. All I know for sure is that classes are perceived a certain way by the public at large.

    In practice, of course, you are right. ZOS work as much on perception as everyone else. Magblade can only go up, I guess.
    Edited by fred4 on March 12, 2019 9:24AM
    PC EU: Magblade (PvP main), DK (PvE Tank), Sorc (PvP and PvE), Magden (PvE Healer), Magplar (PvP and PvE DD), Arcanist (PvE DD)
    PC NA: Magblade (PvP and PvE every role)
  • HowlKimchi
    HowlKimchi
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    fred4 wrote: »
    HaruKamui wrote: »
    Yep we're dead last on the latest poll. At this point we have nowhere to go but up on the next patches so there's that. Here's to hoping we get buffed but not lose our class identity

    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/463092/strongest-pvp-class/p1
    You got to wonder whether these polls have any basis in reality. They do in terms of what is popular, that's for sure, but look at magden for example. The class hasn't fundamentally changed since release, it's just taken people this long to figure out what to do with them. Has the game changed so much that they're more valuable, now, with all the speed nerfs? I don't know. I do not play a FOTM ice warden. All I can tell you is that people from my own faction were taken aback by my damage as well as the defensive capabilities of shields + Living Trellis, over a year ago. They never gave the class any credit. I watched a recent video of Kristofer ESO's, who I respect, and he said as much. Magden was always strong, just no one played it.

    Magsorcs being so downrated seems a knee-jerk reaction to me. I still see magsorcs who are strong 1vXers and seem to have no trouble staying at 100% health, as it's always been. Reality is, the shield changes were mainly targeted at sorcs and they were also the class most able to deal with that. You can correct me, if I'm wrong. I don't play magsorc, but my friend does and it's his most highly rated character for solo play.

    I think a lot depends on how you learnt the game. Which class did you play first, how did you evolve your playstyle, what are you comfortable with? Taking a build directly from YouTube rarely works well, at least not for me. My friend has a tanking background. He used to troll people, several good players or up to 15 potatoes at a time. That's not that easy. He knows how to manage his resources and it's made him very comfortable with a shielding sorc. The other character he tells me performs well for him is his stam DK. He gradually learnt how to do damage with his builds and balance them away from being pure tanks. These days he's as dangerous to duel as others in our guild.

    In my case, I figured out in One Tamriel that speed and flapping wings was a good defense on my stam DK. It's not a class I find competitive anymore, but I was never into the heavy armor blocking DK, which is where I suspect the class truly shines. As I still don't play all the classes nor all playstyles, I find it very hard to judge where the game balance truly is. Nothing gives you as much insight as seeing a class from the inside and the outside, playing it and playing against it. All I know for sure is that classes are perceived a certain way by the public at large.

    In practice, of course, you are right. ZOS work as much on perception as everyone else. Magblade can only go up, I guess.

    I didnt mean for the poll to be a definitive ranking whatsoever. For the case of magden, yes it's strong but the question the poll was asking what the "strongest" class is right now, so people tended to vote for stamwarden and stamblade.

    I was just referencing the link as anecdotal evidence to support the goal of this thread. But still I, somewhat agree with the results of the poll. I mean, sure it's a popularity poll but those classes are popular for a reason. I've also been following jack on youtube for a long time and believe me I build craft a lot. I've also played magicka NB for a long time along so I know the class, and I truly believe that the class needs a small update to its skill set to make it competitive with others.
    previously @HaruKamui but I outgrew my weeb phase (probably)

    PC/NA - EP - Howl Bragi/Howl Kimchi
  • LordTareq
    LordTareq
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    Xvorg wrote: »

    WM is not a great set. It seems it is good but really doesn't help much. It doesn't increases your healing, doesn't help your crits and doesn't protect you. If you play as a melee NB you MUST use a mitigation set and Shack is too good to drop it.

    WM is great if you don’t use heals though, the 400 spelldamage boosts literally every magblade damage ability except for Incap. The aprox 300 spelldamage the set brings over shacklebreaker is very noticeable. And I think its very much a toss-up whether the stamina bonus balances this out. The regen is nice but the extra crit from WM isn’t a bad stat to have either.
    Overall I really think both sets are very viable.
  • mursie
    mursie
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    live on the edge:

    15K max health

    Zaan
    Caluurion
    Spinner
    Maelstrom restro

    melee magblade with elemental weapon/light attack/concealed weapon open.

    ghastly eye-bowl food.

    you kill or get killed. there is no in-between. your recovery is so low that you gas-out after three hits. shade is on the bar but having sustain to use it is challenging at best. not to mention, when you are under duress and need to use it, you're likely dead already.

    twitch.tv/mursieftw
    twitter: @mursieftw
  • Iskiab
    Iskiab
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    fred4 wrote: »
    HaruKamui wrote: »
    Yep we're dead last on the latest poll. At this point we have nowhere to go but up on the next patches so there's that. Here's to hoping we get buffed but not lose our class identity

    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/463092/strongest-pvp-class/p1
    You got to wonder whether these polls have any basis in reality. They do in terms of what is popular, that's for sure, but look at magden for example. The class hasn't fundamentally changed since release, it's just taken people this long to figure out what to do with them. Has the game changed so much that they're more valuable, now, with all the speed nerfs? I don't know. I do not play a FOTM ice warden. All I can tell you is that people from my own faction were taken aback by my damage as well as the defensive capabilities of shields + Living Trellis, over a year ago. They never gave the class any credit. I watched a recent video of Kristofer ESO's, who I respect, and he said as much. Magden was always strong, just no one played it.

    Magsorcs being so downrated seems a knee-jerk reaction to me. I still see magsorcs who are strong 1vXers and seem to have no trouble staying at 100% health, as it's always been. Reality is, the shield changes were mainly targeted at sorcs and they were also the class most able to deal with that. You can correct me, if I'm wrong. I don't play magsorc, but my friend does and it's his most highly rated character for solo play.

    I think a lot depends on how you learnt the game. Which class did you play first, how did you evolve your playstyle, what are you comfortable with? Taking a build directly from YouTube rarely works well, at least not for me. My friend has a tanking background. He used to troll people, several good players or up to 15 potatoes at a time. That's not that easy. He knows how to manage his resources and it's made him very comfortable with a shielding sorc. The other character he tells me performs well for him is his stam DK. He gradually learnt how to do damage with his builds and balance them away from being pure tanks. These days he's as dangerous to duel as others in our guild.

    In my case, I figured out in One Tamriel that speed and flapping wings was a good defense on my stam DK. It's not a class I find competitive anymore, but I was never into the heavy armor blocking DK, which is where I suspect the class truly shines. As I still don't play all the classes nor all playstyles, I find it very hard to judge where the game balance truly is. Nothing gives you as much insight as seeing a class from the inside and the outside, playing it and playing against it. All I know for sure is that classes are perceived a certain way by the public at large.

    In practice, of course, you are right. ZOS work as much on perception as everyone else. Magblade can only go up, I guess.

    Well said, testing things out is a large time commitment and most people parrot others or just talk out their butt. I still see people say NB’s can’t heal well despite being the best pvp healers right now. Same with people saying stamblades are the highest dps in pve.

    It’s a community issue plus half on the devs. Not having a public combat log is such a massive blunder for an MMO. It’s an attempt to not force players to play meta and allow diversity that has massively backfired. Instead what’s happened is people make assumptions and poor decisions based on classes instead of spec or performance. Keeping people in the dark is never a good idea.
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
    Havoc Warhammer - Alair
    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
  • ScruffyWhiskers
    ScruffyWhiskers
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    mursie wrote: »

    melee magblade with elemental weapon/light attack/concealed weapon open.

    Like your approach. I'm running very similar except slim crawl because I'm too lazy to keep minor berserk up. Also use War Maiden instead but have sharpened on my fire staff.

    I really want to use Elemental Weapon. Even when it is on my front bar though, I have problems getting it to trigger with a concealed and the ani cancel light attack. If it was only 3 or 4 seconds in duration. I really wish ZOS would make it more useful for a melee magblade.



  • mav1234
    mav1234
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    HaruKamui wrote: »
    And still, I do potato damage to wings spamming DKs.

    when I was running a build similar to yours, I swapped in a lightning staff in bgs with a lot of DKs. It made an enormous difference, but it isn't a solution 1v1 and it neuters our damage against everything else. :(
    mursie wrote: »

    melee magblade with elemental weapon/light attack/concealed weapon open.

    Like your approach. I'm running very similar except slim crawl because I'm too lazy to keep minor berserk up. Also use War Maiden instead but have sharpened on my fire staff.

    I really want to use Elemental Weapon. Even when it is on my front bar though, I have problems getting it to trigger with a concealed and the ani cancel light attack. If it was only 3 or 4 seconds in duration. I really wish ZOS would make it more useful for a melee magblade.

    I hate elemental weapon, but I wish I didn't. Mursie is very good at triggering it... I am not. It needs a longer timer to really be viable for melee magblade, outside of timed openers...
    Edited by mav1234 on March 12, 2019 3:41PM
  • Jeezye
    Jeezye
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    mav1234 wrote: »
    HaruKamui wrote: »
    And still, I do potato damage to wings spamming DKs.

    when I was running a build similar to yours, I swapped in a lightning staff in bgs with a lot of DKs. It made an enormous difference, but it isn't a solution 1v1 and it neuters our damage against everything else. :(
    mursie wrote: »

    melee magblade with elemental weapon/light attack/concealed weapon open.

    Like your approach. I'm running very similar except slim crawl because I'm too lazy to keep minor berserk up. Also use War Maiden instead but have sharpened on my fire staff.

    I really want to use Elemental Weapon. Even when it is on my front bar though, I have problems getting it to trigger with a concealed and the ani cancel light attack. If it was only 3 or 4 seconds in duration. I really wish ZOS would make it more useful for a melee magblade.

    I hate elemental weapon, but I wish I didn't. Mursie is very good at triggering it... I am not. It needs a longer timer to really be viable for melee magblade, outside of timed openers...

    elemetal weapon is a very interesting skill for nightblades, both stam and mag, as its precastable in cloak and allows insanely high burst potentials with several combos.
    The duration is that short so you can not activate another ability afterwards and chain both 3 GCDs in one combo - and thats a good thing.
  • mav1234
    mav1234
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    Jeezye wrote: »
    elemetal weapon is a very interesting skill for nightblades, both stam and mag, as its precastable in cloak and allows insanely high burst potentials with several combos.
    The duration is that short so you can not activate another ability afterwards and chain both 3 GCDs in one combo - and thats a good thing.

    There would be other ways to avoid that effect while making it more useful. In its current state, it frequently drops off in combat situations that are not set up with cloak because of the short duration. In its current state, you can already chain it after another attack when setting it up precisely, and an extra second wouldn't allow for two skills to be used before the LA (why you would hold a LA weave anyway I don't know) while making it significantly more useful in an environment with lag and a lot of movement.

    That said, I haven't tried it since I went over to a destro staff for my magblade, where I imagine it would be enormously easier to land it, heh.
  • Iskiab
    Iskiab
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    mav1234 wrote: »
    Jeezye wrote: »
    elemetal weapon is a very interesting skill for nightblades, both stam and mag, as its precastable in cloak and allows insanely high burst potentials with several combos.
    The duration is that short so you can not activate another ability afterwards and chain both 3 GCDs in one combo - and thats a good thing.

    There would be other ways to avoid that effect while making it more useful. In its current state, it frequently drops off in combat situations that are not set up with cloak because of the short duration. In its current state, you can already chain it after another attack when setting it up precisely, and an extra second wouldn't allow for two skills to be used before the LA (why you would hold a LA weave anyway I don't know) while making it significantly more useful in an environment with lag and a lot of movement.

    That said, I haven't tried it since I went over to a destro staff for my magblade, where I imagine it would be enormously easier to land it, heh.

    I found it not easy to land. In pve there isn’t a lot of cc so it’s easier, but in pvp with lag and cc I found it meh and there are better options.
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
    Havoc Warhammer - Alair
    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
  • Datthaw
    Datthaw
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    I'm not a fan of warmaiden either I feel you're better off replacing it with IA if you're war maiden you're all class skills anyway so you benefit from IA the same just different 2,3,4 stats

    Of course this is all just preference
  • brandonv516
    brandonv516
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    So is DW mNB finally dead with the enchant changes now? Or did the extra damage for using swords balance it?
  • Xsorus
    Xsorus
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    So is DW mNB finally dead with the enchant changes now? Or did the extra damage for using swords balance it?

    If you're going Magblade melee, you wanna do two hander just to have forward momentum.
  • brandonv516
    brandonv516
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    Xsorus wrote: »
    So is DW mNB finally dead with the enchant changes now? Or did the extra damage for using swords balance it?

    If you're going Magblade melee, you wanna do two hander just to have forward momentum.

    I've made DW work without a snare removal.

    FM is weak at 4 seconds and I need the bar space more.

    Heavy attacks are smoother with DW also.
  • HowlKimchi
    HowlKimchi
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    Xsorus wrote: »
    So is DW mNB finally dead with the enchant changes now? Or did the extra damage for using swords balance it?

    If you're going Magblade melee, you wanna do two hander just to have forward momentum.

    I've made DW work without a snare removal.

    FM is weak at 4 seconds and I need the bar space more.

    Heavy attacks are smoother with DW also.

    wouldn't using a flame staff still be better than dual wield when doing a melee magblade at this point? You dont need to slot a destro skill, and you can still use concealed, with the added benefit of having useful light and heavy attacks.
    previously @HaruKamui but I outgrew my weeb phase (probably)

    PC/NA - EP - Howl Bragi/Howl Kimchi
  • Xsorus
    Xsorus
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    HaruKamui wrote: »
    Xsorus wrote: »
    So is DW mNB finally dead with the enchant changes now? Or did the extra damage for using swords balance it?

    If you're going Magblade melee, you wanna do two hander just to have forward momentum.

    I've made DW work without a snare removal.

    FM is weak at 4 seconds and I need the bar space more.

    Heavy attacks are smoother with DW also.

    wouldn't using a flame staff still be better than dual wield when doing a melee magblade at this point? You dont need to slot a destro skill, and you can still use concealed, with the added benefit of having useful light and heavy attacks.

    yes

  • Knootewoot
    Knootewoot
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    Datthaw wrote: »
    I'm not a fan of warmaiden either I feel you're better off replacing it with IA if you're war maiden you're all class skills anyway so you benefit from IA the same just different 2,3,4 stats

    Of course this is all just preference

    I prefer the 2, 3 and 4 stats from warmaiden. Since all damage skills I use are magic skills warmaiden is great. It also gives more damage due to the 4th stat.

    Also I don't have IA jewellery but sometimes I wear both sets.
    ٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶
    "I am a nightblade. Blending the disciplines of the stealthy agent and subtle wizard, I move unseen and undetected, foil locks and traps, and teleport to safety when threatened, or strike like a viper from ambush. The College of Illusion hides me and fuddles or pacifies my opponents. The College of Mysticism detects my object, reflects and dispels enemy spells, and makes good my escape. The key to a nightblade's success is avoidance, by spell or by stealth; with these skills, all things are possible."
  • Flame_of_Hades
    Flame_of_Hades
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    The only problem i have on my magblade, is running into a dk and going "great, now im going to loss this fight, not because he is better, but because i can't even hit him.."

    At least when fighting the warden shield, i don't nuke my own health bar trying to remove it...

    also, why is cripple reflected?! why is that a thing?

    I mained mag dk for a year. Wings needs a nerf 1v1. bad. on the other hand, it needs a buff in an outnumbered situation, but thats for a different thread..
  • Knootewoot
    Knootewoot
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    The only problem i have on my magblade, is running into a dk and going "great, now im going to loss this fight, not because he is better, but because i can't even hit him.."

    At least when fighting the warden shield, i don't nuke my own health bar trying to remove it...

    also, why is cripple reflected?! why is that a thing?

    I mained mag dk for a year. Wings needs a nerf 1v1. bad. on the other hand, it needs a buff in an outnumbered situation, but thats for a different thread..

    Dk's can't reflect concealed weapon or the fire-staff skill.
    That said, going into melee range of a DK as a melee vampireblade is suicide, and I prefer swallow since I use DW. So I leave Dk's alone.
    I also have trouble getting through shield spamming sorcs, heal and spear spamming Templars, dodge roll vigor spamming stamblades, heal bug shield dawnbreaker spamming wardens. I just target other magblades or afk people.
    Or maybe I should drop melee magblade and go ranged.

    I created a stamDK for fun and he is lvl29 in blue no set gear. Even he survives more easily and has not been successfully ganked once. Can't wait to reach lvl 50 and wear my sets.
    Edited by Knootewoot on March 13, 2019 6:18AM
    ٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶
    "I am a nightblade. Blending the disciplines of the stealthy agent and subtle wizard, I move unseen and undetected, foil locks and traps, and teleport to safety when threatened, or strike like a viper from ambush. The College of Illusion hides me and fuddles or pacifies my opponents. The College of Mysticism detects my object, reflects and dispels enemy spells, and makes good my escape. The key to a nightblade's success is avoidance, by spell or by stealth; with these skills, all things are possible."
  • Iskiab
    Iskiab
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    Knootewoot wrote: »
    The only problem i have on my magblade, is running into a dk and going "great, now im going to loss this fight, not because he is better, but because i can't even hit him.."

    At least when fighting the warden shield, i don't nuke my own health bar trying to remove it...

    also, why is cripple reflected?! why is that a thing?

    I mained mag dk for a year. Wings needs a nerf 1v1. bad. on the other hand, it needs a buff in an outnumbered situation, but thats for a different thread..

    Dk's can't reflect concealed weapon or the fire-staff skill.
    That said, going into melee range of a DK as a melee vampireblade is suicide, and I prefer swallow since I use DW. So I leave Dk's alone.
    I also have trouble getting through shield spamming sorcs, heal and spear spamming Templars, dodge roll vigor spamming stamblades, heal bug shield dawnbreaker spamming wardens. I just target other magblades or afk people.
    Or maybe I should drop melee magblade and go ranged.

    I created a stamDK for fun and he is lvl29 in blue no set gear. Even he survives more easily and has not been successfully ganked once. Can't wait to reach lvl 50 and wear my sets.

    50’s totally different than the under 50 bracket. I leveled a stamblade as a brawler and did really well. As soon as I hit 50 all the proc sets and higher burst made him unplayable, and I had to go back to the drawing board.
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
    Havoc Warhammer - Alair
    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
  • Zevrro
    Zevrro
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    Knootewoot wrote: »
    The only problem i have on my magblade, is running into a dk and going "great, now im going to loss this fight, not because he is better, but because i can't even hit him.."

    At least when fighting the warden shield, i don't nuke my own health bar trying to remove it...

    also, why is cripple reflected?! why is that a thing?

    I mained mag dk for a year. Wings needs a nerf 1v1. bad. on the other hand, it needs a buff in an outnumbered situation, but thats for a different thread..

    Dk's can't reflect concealed weapon or the fire-staff skill.
    That said, going into melee range of a DK as a melee vampireblade is suicide, and I prefer swallow since I use DW. So I leave Dk's alone.
    I also have trouble getting through shield spamming sorcs, heal and spear spamming Templars, dodge roll vigor spamming stamblades, heal bug shield dawnbreaker spamming wardens. I just target other magblades or afk people.
    Or maybe I should drop melee magblade and go ranged.

    I created a stamDK for fun and he is lvl29 in blue no set gear. Even he survives more easily and has not been successfully ganked once. Can't wait to reach lvl 50 and wear my sets.

    Magblade has much lower healing than it used to and if you drop swallow soul for concealed weapon or force pulse you lose even more which isn't worth it just to be able to damage dks. I don't really see the benefit of the melee magblade playstyle since you lose healing and you have to fight up close on a class with very low mobility.
    @Zevrro PC-EU
    CP 1200+
    Azura's Star/Sotha Sil/Bahlokdaan
    Magicka Nightblade

    AD | Zevrro
    | Magicka Nightblade | AR43 |
    AD | Zevrro II | Magicka Nightblade | AR50 | 09-02-2019 |
    DC | Not Zevrro | Magicka Nightblade | AR33 |
    EP | Ževrro | Magicka Nightblade | AR14 |
    Other PvP Characters
    AD | Zevrro VII | Stamina Warden | AR33 |
    AD | Zevrro XII | Magicka Warden | AR22 |
    DC | Not Zevrro II | Magicka Warden | AR14 |
    DC | Necrotic Zevrro | Magicka Necromancer | AR17 |
    EP | Real-Skyice | Stamina Warden | AR10 |

    >156m AP
  • fred4
    fred4
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    Hmm. I am by no means brilliant, but my melee magblade remains the character with which I get the most kills. (I don't really play my stamblade much. Not used to it.)

    I wish I could give up Forward Momentum, but I can't. You use it for a consistent heal to activate Troll King, when wearing that set. You use it, if you get taloned or snared. It's cheaper than a dodge roll and you need the immunity. The fact that it's down to 4 seconds doesn't matter that much, since you only use it reactively to get back up to speed and into cloak.

    I actually use Swallow Soul on the resto bar in addition to Concealed on the 2H bar. It is quite ineffective as a damage dealing skill in my build, but it is a heal and my preferred spammable for IC bosses. It also helps to have a ranged option in those unfocused before prime time fights, where everyone is just strewn around a keep. I love those and I don't like builds that are entirely melee.
    Zevrro wrote: »
    I don't really see the benefit of the melee magblade playstyle since you lose healing and you have to fight up close on a class with very low mobility.
    I don't get this comment. Low mobility? Certainly not magblade. You mean the DK? I fight DKs. It's one of the main reasons I play melee.
    PC EU: Magblade (PvP main), DK (PvE Tank), Sorc (PvP and PvE), Magden (PvE Healer), Magplar (PvP and PvE DD), Arcanist (PvE DD)
    PC NA: Magblade (PvP and PvE every role)
  • Zevrro
    Zevrro
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    fred4 wrote: »
    Hmm. I am by no means brilliant, but my melee magblade remains the character with which I get the most kills. (I don't really play my stamblade much. Not used to it.)

    I wish I could give up Forward Momentum, but I can't. You use it for a consistent heal to activate Troll King, when wearing that set. You use it, if you get taloned or snared. It's cheaper than a dodge roll and you need the immunity. The fact that it's down to 4 seconds doesn't matter that much, since you only use it reactively to get back up to speed and into cloak.

    I actually use Swallow Soul on the resto bar in addition to Concealed on the 2H bar. It is quite ineffective as a damage dealing skill in my build, but it is a heal and my preferred spammable for IC bosses. It also helps to have a ranged option in those unfocused before prime time fights, where everyone is just strewn around a keep. I love those and I don't like builds that are entirely melee.
    Zevrro wrote: »
    I don't really see the benefit of the melee magblade playstyle since you lose healing and you have to fight up close on a class with very low mobility.
    I don't get this comment. Low mobility? Certainly not magblade. You mean the DK? I fight DKs. It's one of the main reasons I play melee.

    I was talking about dual wield melee magblades. If you run 2h then you get mobility from forward momentum but for some reason almost all of the melee magblades I see are running dual wield. I haven't see many players using forward momentum on magblade since they decreased the duration.
    @Zevrro PC-EU
    CP 1200+
    Azura's Star/Sotha Sil/Bahlokdaan
    Magicka Nightblade

    AD | Zevrro
    | Magicka Nightblade | AR43 |
    AD | Zevrro II | Magicka Nightblade | AR50 | 09-02-2019 |
    DC | Not Zevrro | Magicka Nightblade | AR33 |
    EP | Ževrro | Magicka Nightblade | AR14 |
    Other PvP Characters
    AD | Zevrro VII | Stamina Warden | AR33 |
    AD | Zevrro XII | Magicka Warden | AR22 |
    DC | Not Zevrro II | Magicka Warden | AR14 |
    DC | Necrotic Zevrro | Magicka Necromancer | AR17 |
    EP | Real-Skyice | Stamina Warden | AR10 |

    >156m AP
  • fred4
    fred4
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    Zevrro wrote: »
    fred4 wrote: »
    Hmm. I am by no means brilliant, but my melee magblade remains the character with which I get the most kills. (I don't really play my stamblade much. Not used to it.)

    I wish I could give up Forward Momentum, but I can't. You use it for a consistent heal to activate Troll King, when wearing that set. You use it, if you get taloned or snared. It's cheaper than a dodge roll and you need the immunity. The fact that it's down to 4 seconds doesn't matter that much, since you only use it reactively to get back up to speed and into cloak.

    I actually use Swallow Soul on the resto bar in addition to Concealed on the 2H bar. It is quite ineffective as a damage dealing skill in my build, but it is a heal and my preferred spammable for IC bosses. It also helps to have a ranged option in those unfocused before prime time fights, where everyone is just strewn around a keep. I love those and I don't like builds that are entirely melee.
    Zevrro wrote: »
    I don't really see the benefit of the melee magblade playstyle since you lose healing and you have to fight up close on a class with very low mobility.
    I don't get this comment. Low mobility? Certainly not magblade. You mean the DK? I fight DKs. It's one of the main reasons I play melee.

    I was talking about dual wield melee magblades. If you run 2h then you get mobility from forward momentum but for some reason almost all of the melee magblades I see are running dual wield. I haven't see many players using forward momentum on magblade since they decreased the duration.
    That's bound to change. DW made sense from an enchants point of view, especially if you were running Torug's Pact. Makes no sense now.
    PC EU: Magblade (PvP main), DK (PvE Tank), Sorc (PvP and PvE), Magden (PvE Healer), Magplar (PvP and PvE DD), Arcanist (PvE DD)
    PC NA: Magblade (PvP and PvE every role)
  • Iskiab
    Iskiab
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    fred4 wrote: »
    Hmm. I am by no means brilliant, but my melee magblade remains the character with which I get the most kills. (I don't really play my stamblade much. Not used to it.)

    I wish I could give up Forward Momentum, but I can't. You use it for a consistent heal to activate Troll King, when wearing that set. You use it, if you get taloned or snared. It's cheaper than a dodge roll and you need the immunity. The fact that it's down to 4 seconds doesn't matter that much, since you only use it reactively to get back up to speed and into cloak.

    I actually use Swallow Soul on the resto bar in addition to Concealed on the 2H bar. It is quite ineffective as a damage dealing skill in my build, but it is a heal and my preferred spammable for IC bosses. It also helps to have a ranged option in those unfocused before prime time fights, where everyone is just strewn around a keep. I love those and I don't like builds that are entirely melee.
    Zevrro wrote: »
    I don't really see the benefit of the melee magblade playstyle since you lose healing and you have to fight up close on a class with very low mobility.
    I don't get this comment. Low mobility? Certainly not magblade. You mean the DK? I fight DKs. It's one of the main reasons I play melee.

    What’s your spec? I might try it. I don’t think I’ve beaten a magDK in a duel... ever.

    Btw, it’s not just DKs who can reflect. It’s DKs, Wardens, and anyone who uses S&B.

    I agree about magblade maneuverability too. That’s what makes it fun even if it’s not effective.

    Edited by Iskiab on March 13, 2019 9:51PM
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
    Havoc Warhammer - Alair
    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
  • LordTareq
    LordTareq
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    I've been testing Spinners, War Maiden and Shacklebreaker today on dummies. All with the same enchants etc. But with shacklebreaker the regen on the set meant I switched out one of my regen jewelry for spellpower. The results were interesting.
    I've used 3 rotations (animation cancelling was used):

    Melee: Forward momentum -> light attack -> incap -> followed by 20x (light attack + concealed strike + bash)
    Melee 2: Same but without the bash.
    Frost Staff: Heavy attack -> Elemental blockade -> light attack -> Soul Assault -> followed by 10x (light attack + Swallow soul) -> Elemental blockade -> followed by 10x (light attack + Swallow soul) -> Soul Assault

    I repeated these rotations 5 times per armor set.

    All 3 sets were quite close together. However Spinners won out in every single instance. Spinner's also get the highest damage numbers for single attack, so burst wise also wins out.

    Shacklebreaker wins out over War Maiden (and is almost equal to Spinners) only when using the "perfect" melee rotation with bash (which may not be very representative for PvP situations), but is behind the two other sets in the other rotations. The smaller the contribution of non-magicka/spell damage abilities becomes, the further the gap. If I had slotted Soul Harvest instead of Incapacitating Strike for example, the different would have been bigger. Still the extra stamina & stamina regen from Shackle helps with survivability as well, so definitely a very strong set.

    I did not expect this, but it turns out even magic damage abilities like concealed strike or Soul assault, do more damage with Spinners than with War Maiden's. I really did not think this would be the case, but concealed strike and swallow soul damage was consistently several hundreds higher with spinners. On the melee rotations the difference between the two sets is only 1.5-3 percent, on the ranged rotation all the attacks benefit from Spinners so the difference is closer to 5%.
    Edited by LordTareq on March 13, 2019 11:25PM
  • fred4
    fred4
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    Iskiab wrote: »
    fred4 wrote: »
    Hmm. I am by no means brilliant, but my melee magblade remains the character with which I get the most kills. (I don't really play my stamblade much. Not used to it.)

    I wish I could give up Forward Momentum, but I can't. You use it for a consistent heal to activate Troll King, when wearing that set. You use it, if you get taloned or snared. It's cheaper than a dodge roll and you need the immunity. The fact that it's down to 4 seconds doesn't matter that much, since you only use it reactively to get back up to speed and into cloak.

    I actually use Swallow Soul on the resto bar in addition to Concealed on the 2H bar. It is quite ineffective as a damage dealing skill in my build, but it is a heal and my preferred spammable for IC bosses. It also helps to have a ranged option in those unfocused before prime time fights, where everyone is just strewn around a keep. I love those and I don't like builds that are entirely melee.
    Zevrro wrote: »
    I don't really see the benefit of the melee magblade playstyle since you lose healing and you have to fight up close on a class with very low mobility.
    I don't get this comment. Low mobility? Certainly not magblade. You mean the DK? I fight DKs. It's one of the main reasons I play melee.

    What’s your spec? I might try it. I don’t think I’ve beaten a magDK in a duel... ever.

    Btw, it’s not just DKs who can reflect. It’s DKs, Wardens, and anyone who uses S&B.

    I agree about magblade maneuverability too. That’s what makes it fun even if it’s not effective.
    Well, for what it's worth:

    https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=127467

    This is an open world spec. While I have beaten my mag DK friend, who is roughly as skilled as myself, I don't expect to kill everyone with this.

    It is a fairly high sustain, cloaking speed build that works in CP and no CP. Your defense is that speed. If the DK talons you, you can try hitting them, but if they do too much damage you Fear, Forward Momentum and run off. You are basically so fast that I've given up on the shade. If the opponent uses a detection potion things can get a little tricky, but you still have a good chance to move out of range.

    I do not aim to have the greatest burst with this. If I did, I would run Spinner instead of Skooma Smuggler, or perhaps Auroran's Thunder, and I would incorporate Merciless and, perhaps, Degeneration. As it stands, I don't even bother with Major Sorcery. Instead I prefer Immovability / Detection / Magicka potions. This build is about staying on top of and finishing people with Concealed Weapon after the burst, which is why I prefer that potion. The burst typically comes from Cloak -> Lotus Fan -> Incap + guaranteed Caluurion proc hitting at the same time. Plus Zaan, if you're lucky. Skooma Smuggler is as much of a help in offense as it is in defense. It allows you to stay on top of dodge rolling opponents who you will eventually hit.

    Inbetween ultis I'm typically in and out of cloak, while I try to stun people with Concealed and get another Caluurion or Zaan proc now and again. The speed obviously synergises with Zaan. Alternatively I just hit people from range, building ultimate. Sometimes switching to range can work, especially if the opponent is a vampire. The main reason for the infused prismatic resto is boss farming in IC, though. Feel free to use a different enchant.

    Stamina sustain is limited, which is why Deep Thoughts is in the build. One break free, roll dodge and Forward Momentum is about all you have. When low on stamina (or magicka) I hide behind a tree and use that skill. Thankfully it is very viable to disappear with the speed you have.

    This build can quite easily be countered. Caluurion is reflectable and has a 1 second activation time, even when used at point blank range. If you are too predictable, people will dodge roll it and a DK who is really clued in might keep their wings up. In practice this is perhaps easier said than done, outside of a duel, or most people are simply not that clued in. DKs have a tendency to only use wings reactively, when attacked by obvious ranged attacks. It's an expensive skill for them after all.

    Some obligatory small print: This build is capable of perma-cloaking outside of combat and near perma-cloaking in combat. I was talking to Jeezye in game, and he asked whether I get into prolonged fights. I do. It is not a pure ganking spec and not nearly the highest damage you can get with this type of build. The attraction to this playstyle is that the speed and cloak gives you a lot of control. If you want to view that as resulting in a series of ganks, so be it, but I have to say that this patch has enabled me to get higher health and that 1.15K health regen and that has improved it's ability to brawl just a little. Still, you would be stupid not to run away and recover your stamina when it's down and you don't have the Immovability potion ready.

    Anyway, back to talking about sustain. Be a Breton. Let me repeat that: Be a Breton. This build is made for it. Note the two cost reduction rings, one Infused? That is what you need. Do not go for more magicka recovery and, for gods sake, don't wear Lich nor Bright Throat's. This build is squishy. Speed and cloak are your defenses. What do you need to sustain cloak? Atro mundus (but using Steed this patch, cause we can), drinks and cost reduction. NOT magicka recovery. Let me repeat that: NOT magicka recovery. The reason is that, while you are out of combat, your magicka recovery is calculated differently. It is typically higher than in combat, but only based on drinks and mundus. The stat sheet does not show you this, unless you use Harven's Extended Stats addon, which shows your "Magicka Recovery Idle". I suppose it depends on playstyle, but if you are like me, you can and will run around in cloak a lot and the game engine will consider you out of combat half the time. That's why you build for out of combat sustain as well as in combat.
    PC EU: Magblade (PvP main), DK (PvE Tank), Sorc (PvP and PvE), Magden (PvE Healer), Magplar (PvP and PvE DD), Arcanist (PvE DD)
    PC NA: Magblade (PvP and PvE every role)
  • Iskiab
    Iskiab
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    Yea, penetration is the best dps stat in both pve and pvp. It’s the best right up until the target has 0 resists and past that has no effect. I think it’s 660 resists per % damage.

    Which dummy did you use? I think they have different resist levels but can’t recall. Why so many light attacks in your rotation btw?

    What’s good about war maiden is it’s heavy so you can go WM chest and legs with a light monster set. Chest gives the most resists so wearing a heavy chest has advantages.
    Edited by Iskiab on March 13, 2019 11:47PM
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
    Havoc Warhammer - Alair
    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
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