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Wood Elf/ Bosmer losing stealth passive, An open letter.

  • anadandy
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    Slytherin - totally the house of unicorns and rainbows now.
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  • Cundu_Ertur
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    Ravenclaws have always been the jocks who 'pants' the nerds.
    Taking stealth away from the Bosmer is like taking magic away from the Altmer, making Nords allergic to mead, or making Orcs pretty.
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  • Ogou
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    Ogou wrote: »
    Ogou wrote: »
    DenMoria wrote: »
    Seraphayel wrote: »
    DenMoria wrote: »
    Seraphayel wrote: »
    DenMoria wrote: »
    Seraphayel wrote: »
    Seraphayel wrote: »
    BlueRaven wrote: »
    Hopefully by this time tomorrow we will know if the passives will change.

    No they won't and you already knew this when the racials went live.

    Oh, it's everybody knowledge that racials won't be revisited in nearest couple of years. This thread and those Q&A is just a reminder not to put a single cent in this game. (though i put a lot before and regularly, literally buying anything i like)

    Well then punish ZOS with your wallet.

    Why? And what punishment? You're just one person and/or a small group.

    The rest of us don't have a problem.

    If you want to "punish" a multi-billion corporation by not giving them chump change, go for it.

    Most of us play and subscribe and don't really care about much other than server issues, lag time and "bots".

    Racial passives and minor adjustments to skills just aren't that important in the grand scheme of things.

    What I want is unlimited Health, Magicka and Stamina. Nothing less. At level 2 as a perk, of course.

    You missed the mark. I have absolutely no problem. It's the Bosmer crowd in this thread that can't accept what's reality now.

    Touche and I apologize if I misread.

    Thank you for setting me straight.

    I do love my bosmers though.

    They're short, they're cute and they're awesome with a bow.

    I don't really care otherwise.

    It's all about the looks to me.

    You might be able to tell that I'm not very good at PvP. :)

    Well my comment was just an answer to another guy who said he quit his ESO+.
    ______

    And they have antlers! That's the best about Bosmer.

    That's a shame. He'll be back though. We always come back. :)

    OMG, it was nothing about ESO+, you can't cancel it if it is already running. I just said that i don't want to spend any additional money on game where devs are not listening to players. It's not only about stealth, it's about overall ignorance, poor performance, lack of variety. This case with stealth is just bright example of how they listen and how they preserve lore. I never played MMORPGs before, only reason why I came here was Morrowind and Skyrim. Unfortunately, ESO is not compatible with them, it's spin-off, parallel reality which won't end in 3rd Era which majority of players prefer:
    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/458118/favourite-era

    I still continue to play mostly because of friends in game, and I spend 90% of time in group content and other 10% are writs and surveys. I have "3rd era" ESO running in parallel in my mind, and since group content is just a small stories which doesn't contradict original game atmosphere, I'm fine with them. Remove of stealth just cut last part of my immersion which was keeping me in overland, so one less reason to play it, and one less reason to buy Elsweyr. I don't think about it as "sacrifice" or "voting with wallet". I simply don't want to buy it, no point to.

    What do you mean it won't end the 3rd era? Where else would it go?

    Well, we know that in 3rd era argonians are slaves of dunmers, nords and dunmers despise and hate each other as race and nationality, and of course bosmers are stealthy and "night eye" is khajiit's perk. Imperials in 3rd era is actually basement of civilization and not some villains who just want to destroy all neighboring kingdoms . So obviously ESO is parallel reality.
    I specially checked 2nd era timeline in UESP some time ago, and ESO consequences vanish without trace very fast. Maybe it's all dealings of imperial scribes who changed history to their needs, but given that characters and world in TES3-5 are immersive and in ESO majority of them are generic and not trustworthy, my conscience is with single-player TES games.

    So main thing in ESO for me is gameplay and cosmetics, unfortunately ZOS makes everything to ruin my immersive builds with every patch, but I still find new ways to adapt and play the way I like, not like ZOS pigeonholes me. From new patchnote I see that they ruin most interesting and skill-based ability in the game to draw people attention to necromancer.. ok, maybe I need to switch my magblade dps to pvp healer and re-build breton templar from healer to dps, something like that..

    -Telvanni and Dres still have argonian and khajiiti slaves.
    -An ancient Nord ghost with a passionate hatred of the Dunmer being at the head of the empire would definitely revive old hatred. The tribunal having to bow down and surrender the Numidium probably didn't help either.
    -gameplay =/= lore
    -There's that dude called Tiber Septim who unified the Imperials and led them in a conquest of the entire continent of Tamriel. That might have helped with the importance of the Imperials.

    So which part exactly vanished without a trace?

    I mean. You can have whatever headcanon you want but, as far as both Bethesda and ZOS are concerned, ESO is indeed canon:


    Anybody may write anything in twitter, it doesn't change facts. You may even find some small notification of planemeld in some manuscript somewhere etc, but no single NPC in Morrowind and Skyrim will never mention that someday nords and dunmers were in alliance, but they remember battles of nords and chimers (i.e. dunmers) which were before ESO.

    Well, according to that logic, the battle of Red Mountain is not canon because it wasn't mentioned before Morrowind, Miraak isn't canon because he wasn't mentioned before Skyrim, the Alessian rebellion didn't happen because it wasn't mentioned before Oblivion. We knew nothing of the Interregnum before ESO, at least none of it is on the same level as changing a whole region's climate (see Cyrodiil).
    Lore and more importantly lore shown in dialog, architecture, people interaction in previous games is solid and immersive. In ESO it's more like another fantasy novel published each year where authors turn things inside out to keep reader interested. Elsweyr: "Oh yeah, dragon attacking because somebody unleashed them from cave". Summerset: "Return of the Psijics and Sea Sload!". I'm not saying that Summerset story is bad, I liked it. But compare it to Skyrim, where dragon attacks to save Jarl and then follows connection to Tiber Septim, to Blades, Thalmor and so on.. and even main story of Skyrim which is considered realtively bad in comparison to side quests and guild quests.. even this main story outshines ESO greatly.. not but plot twists, but by depth and immersion.

    Even if any of that was true how does that make ESO not canon?
    You may say that those are single-player games, they are always better cause they are not limited by MMO gameplay. Ok, let's look at books:
    Just compare this, how flawless and connected is all the writing and which describes a lot about bosmers through small nuances. You can't write something like that if you don't perceive Tamriel as a whole world:
    https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Words_and_Philosophy

    And this, where it's just list of facts of what bosmers without deep lore connection.
    https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Green_Pact_and_the_Dominion

    When ESO was created ZOS was thinking.. hmm... we need to gave some story to fill 3 zones and which will be memorable. Ok, let's make bosmers anti-veggie cannibals, why not.

    You're really comparing am interview with a war pamphlet? Besides, Bosmer have been anti-veggie cannibals since TESIII: Morrowind.
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  • Ratzkifal
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    Yay, we get a new stealth set! So when will they fix Bosmer lore? The game's title should be "clothes make the man" if the answer to all roleplaying is "just wear this set". I am not against sets opening up new options, but I think when a race is known for something that is gameplay related (like Archery and stealth) then wearing the right set on that race should reap you greater benefits. The set is a step in the right direction for every race that isn't Bosmer and a punch in the gut for people that wanted to be the best (or above average) at something on their Bosmer.
    I am fine with how bows are represented. Of course it could be better, but the Hunter's Eye passive should work well in theory with the Bow passive that grants movement speed after dodgeroll. They have an advantage over other bow users (apart from Orc that have the same movement speed buff), so at least one of the two gameplay related core themes are satisfied as far as I am concerned.
    But the way Bosmer stealth is represented is really just a shame. A big fat smudge on 25 years of lore and stealthiness. This new set might make the Bosmer passive "a bit" (exaggeration) more useful in Cyrodiil than it previously was, due to the abundance of sneaking players. However Mage Light is still more powerful and Scorching Flare practically oneshots any stealthing player with a 20k per second dot while granting you 10% more magica recovery thanks to the passive. The 3m detection will still be useless after Elsweyr launch!

    It's very sad to see that ZOS (specifically Rob) seems to think exactly how a lot of the people opposed to our suggestion seem to think. "So you have a problem with the way things are? Well too bad, we will never fix it because you are just not enough people that we would care". Even though it would take them almost no effort to make us very happy and literally nobody in the entire game unhappy - apart from maybe Hand_Bacon who likes detection despite admitting that it is currently quite useless - AS WELL AS BEING CONSISTENT WITH THE LORE AND PREVIOUS GAMES! Isn't this about ZOS's integrity too?
    Just the way Batman appeared as often in The Hobbit book as Legolas, we are apparently living in the movie version of the The Hobbit where anything goes and the source material doesn't matter as long as it makes money. Personally I am looking forward to playing the Dark Knight class in the upcoming Gotham chapter /s.

    @Tasear Didn't you have some news for us you couldn't share before today? I hope it's not the new set, because that one is making me more sad than excited and I could really use a dose of serotonin right about now. The necromancer isn't doing it anymore.
    Edited by Ratzkifal on March 29, 2019 1:39AM
    This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.
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  • BlueRaven
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  • Ratzkifal
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    BlueRaven wrote: »

    Yeah, but didn't he mention there was "a big mistake" there? I would like to know what that was about and if ZOS is aware or not.

    I'd like to see someone from ZOS define Bosmer in three words. I'm quite convinced nobody in the combat team will use the word "stealth". Unless they say "anti-stealth" perhaps.
    This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.
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  • Wildbloom
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    Oh boy, Elsweyr information! Anything on making people more stealthy? A deeper legerdemain tree? More racials? Food buffs perhaps!

    Oh! A new armor set! Cool! What else? Khajit are, after all, the masters of sneak, as their racials define them as. So an expansion all about them should be bringing a good few stealth-related additions? Right?

    ...Right?

    Hello...?
    "Hello, Skellington Pal! How are you today? Bone dry, you say? I’d offer you a glass of water, but it’d all fall through! I need more coffee."


    ZOS_GinaBruno, patch 5.0.1 PTS patch notes, 4/22/2019
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  • BlueRaven
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    Ratzkifal wrote: »
    BlueRaven wrote: »

    Yeah, but didn't he mention there was "a big mistake" there? I would like to know what that was about and if ZOS is aware or not.

    I'd like to see someone from ZOS define Bosmer in three words. I'm quite convinced nobody in the combat team will use the word "stealth". Unless they say "anti-stealth" perhaps.

    If I could give you an “agree” and “awesome” at the same time I would.
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  • Jaraal
    Jaraal
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    anadandy wrote: »
    And there it is. I'm laying money down that this is the planned "open stealth to all" idea that was the reason Bosmer got the shaft.

    Vesture of Darloc Brae (Overland Elsweyr set)
    Set bonus
    (2 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
    (3 items) Adds 129 Stamina Recovery
    (4 items) Reduces the radius you can be detected while sneaking by 2 meters. Reduces the cost of sneak by 10%.
    (5 items) While crouching, you restore 647 Magicka and Stamina and heal for 698 every second.

    Source

    They gutted the race to pimp a new set. (yes, overly dramatic)

    TBH, this set is worse for thieves than Night Terror, which only requires 3 pcs for the same detection radius reduction, and reduces the cost of Sneak by 27%.

    The real bonus here is in the resource recovery in combat, which actually benefits Khajiit the most, since they can remain undetected better than any other race now. And it's an even bigger slap in the face to Bosmer..... who can't crouch and roll dodge at the same time. So, yeah. The bad news just keeps on coming!


    Edited by Jaraal on March 29, 2019 2:42AM
    RIP Bosmer Nation. 4/4/14 - 2/25/19.
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  • BlueRaven
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    I knew there was going to be a lot of focus on the necromancer class when the nda dropped. I just did not expect the amount of narrow focus it was going to get.
    I thought there would be at least someone interested in class, racial passives, and other gameplay changes. But all of the coverage seems to be very much the same.
    I hope I get to see something else besides necromancers tomorrow.

    One rule I learned while taking photos is to always look back behind you, you may have passed something interesting. I think I might be one of the few people not that interested in the message they want to sell.
    Edited by BlueRaven on March 29, 2019 2:49AM
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  • Ratzkifal
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    Jaraal wrote: »
    anadandy wrote: »
    And there it is. I'm laying money down that this is the planned "open stealth to all" idea that was the reason Bosmer got the shaft.

    Vesture of Darloc Brae (Overland Elsweyr set)
    Set bonus
    (2 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
    (3 items) Adds 129 Stamina Recovery
    (4 items) Reduces the radius you can be detected while sneaking by 2 meters. Reduces the cost of sneak by 10%.
    (5 items) While crouching, you restore 647 Magicka and Stamina and heal for 698 every second.

    Source

    They gutted the race to pimp a new set. (yes, overly dramatic)

    TBH, this set is worse for thieves than Night Terror, which only requires 3 pcs for the same detection radius reduction, and reduces the cost of Sneak by 27%.

    The real bonus here is in the resource recovery in combat, which actually benefits Khajiit the most, since they can remain undetected better than any other race now. And it's an even bigger slap in the face to Bosmer..... who can't crouch and roll dodge at the same time. So, yeah. The bad news just keeps on coming!


    Honestly, I don't mind if this set is tailored to Khajiit. It's their chapter. They can have something nice too. But then I am asking what was ZOS talking about when they brushed off the criticism that the community is worried about Bosmer trading stealth for something else? This set is not helping Bosmer get stealthier unless you are a Nightblade and Nightblade is the last class that needs a buff to being sneaky. I thought they were going to "open it up". Where is that? Where is the set that makes me invisible after/during dodgeroll for X seconds once every Y seconds? Where is my Bosmer stealth? Instead of opening it up, they punish players that want to do stealth on other classes than Nightblade and punish Bosmer especially hard by removing their only bonus to it.
    This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.
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  • Ratzkifal
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    I guess I'm going to try and post something wholesome and uplifting. Usually "weird opinions" on the forum are getting shouted down immediately on the forum. S***posters come and make fun of you etc. The fact that this didn't happen here and that there is only a handful of people voicing a different opinion (and always only tell us to stop and accept rather than give counter arguments) is a sign that most people either agree with us but don't feel like adding anything as we are doing a good job already or they simply don't care enough to engage in the discussion, meaning they also won't mind if we get what we want.

    I also want to shout out to @max_only and verbally hug him for making this thread and because I think he could use a hug or two right now.
    This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.
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  • Night_Wolf2112
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    That's only if he wants a hug. . . I mean, he can 'detect' you coming and would not be able to 'hide' very efficiently! 😉
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  • anadandy
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    Ratzkifal wrote: »
    I also want to shout out to @max_only and verbally hug him for making this thread and because I think he could use a hug or two right now.

    Hear, hear! *tips virtual mug*

    *makes a lot of noise and immediately gets spotted by a guard* Dang it!! ;)
    Edited by anadandy on March 29, 2019 11:14AM
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  • Cundu_Ertur
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    Don't sweat it, bro, all guards are Bosmer now. Bosmer have always been guards. We've always been at war with Eastasia.
    Taking stealth away from the Bosmer is like taking magic away from the Altmer, making Nords allergic to mead, or making Orcs pretty.
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  • wedgebert
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    Don't sweat it, bro, all guards are Bosmer now. Bosmer have always been guards. We've always been at war with Eastasia.

    It's just a shame we're not very good guards. Instead of being alerted to the enemy by the arrow sticking out of our neck, Bosmer can detect the enemy by the arrow sticking out of our neck because the majority of stealth attacks are from range!
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  • KMarble
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    DenMoria wrote: »
    Seraphayel wrote: »
    Seraphayel wrote: »
    BlueRaven wrote: »
    Hopefully by this time tomorrow we will know if the passives will change.

    No they won't and you already knew this when the racials went live.

    Oh, it's everybody knowledge that racials won't be revisited in nearest couple of years. This thread and those Q&A is just a reminder not to put a single cent in this game. (though i put a lot before and regularly, literally buying anything i like)

    Well then punish ZOS with your wallet.

    Why? And what punishment? You're just one person and/or a small group.

    The rest of us don't have a problem.

    If you want to "punish" a multi-billion corporation by not giving them chump change, go for it.
    This game makes the parent company money 3 ways:
    - shares
    - sales of the game itself
    - and the one that truly keeps the servers up and running : subscriptions and expansions

    Sale of shares is the reason why there are events - events generate traffic to old areas and retains a residual population after events are over. The company can then show those numbers to investors as evidence that the game is alive and well.

    Sales of the game itself are not only a gamble (some expansions might not be well received), they don't keep the game going. Unlike a single player game, the economic model for a MMO isn't based on the initial purchase because, unlike a single player game, they need to keep the servers (and the people who work in the game) paid.

    Subscriptions and to an extent expansions are what keeps the game alive and running. I hope, for the sake of all of us who play this game, that the people in charge don't think like you and go "oh, well. It's just one person and/or small group". That is a good way to destroy their business.

    BlueRaven wrote: »
    Well I have been playing since beta on the pc/Mac. I am not sure if you understand the controversy over the racial changes made to bosmers or not, but the changes to their stealth passive (or rather their lack of a stealth passive) is what many of us are upset about. And the subject of this thread.

    Yes, Tamriel unlimited was a great change, but that’s a different subject entirely.
    They're trying to deflect (also I'd like to thank them for, once again, bumping the thread). Truth is, even the few who posted here telling us to shut up, can't come up with an argument - mind you, I'm not even say a good argument - that addresses the subject of this thread.
    anadandy wrote: »
    And there it is. I'm laying money down that this is the planned "open stealth to all" idea that was the reason Bosmer got the shaft.

    Vesture of Darloc Brae (Overland Elsweyr set)
    Set bonus
    (2 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
    (3 items) Adds 129 Stamina Recovery
    (4 items) Reduces the radius you can be detected while sneaking by 2 meters. Reduces the cost of sneak by 10%.
    (5 items) While crouching, you restore 647 Magicka and Stamina and heal for 698 every second.

    Source

    They gutted the race to pimp a new set. (yes, overly dramatic)

    I will be trying this set on both a wood elf and a Khajiit when the PTS goes live. As I've pointed before, the original idea was for Khajiit to have a 5 meters radius, but it had to be taken back to 3 meters. Unless my math was completely wrong, there was only a 1 meter leeway from playable to broken.

    We have 14 slots total, one of the sets that already exists only needs 3 pieces to reduce the radius, the other requires 5 pieces, which will still allow player to wear this new set and have 2 slots for something else.

    This set effectively gives Khajiits back the 2 meters that were taken away from their passive.
    Options
  • BlueRaven
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    KMarble wrote: »
    DenMoria wrote: »
    Seraphayel wrote: »
    Seraphayel wrote: »
    BlueRaven wrote: »
    Hopefully by this time tomorrow we will know if the passives will change.

    No they won't and you already knew this when the racials went live.

    Oh, it's everybody knowledge that racials won't be revisited in nearest couple of years. This thread and those Q&A is just a reminder not to put a single cent in this game. (though i put a lot before and regularly, literally buying anything i like)

    Well then punish ZOS with your wallet.

    Why? And what punishment? You're just one person and/or a small group.

    The rest of us don't have a problem.

    If you want to "punish" a multi-billion corporation by not giving them chump change, go for it.
    This game makes the parent company money 3 ways:
    - shares
    - sales of the game itself
    - and the one that truly keeps the servers up and running : subscriptions and expansions

    Sale of shares is the reason why there are events - events generate traffic to old areas and retains a residual population after events are over. The company can then show those numbers to investors as evidence that the game is alive and well.

    Sales of the game itself are not only a gamble (some expansions might not be well received), they don't keep the game going. Unlike a single player game, the economic model for a MMO isn't based on the initial purchase because, unlike a single player game, they need to keep the servers (and the people who work in the game) paid.

    Subscriptions and to an extent expansions are what keeps the game alive and running. I hope, for the sake of all of us who play this game, that the people in charge don't think like you and go "oh, well. It's just one person and/or small group". That is a good way to destroy their business.

    BlueRaven wrote: »
    Well I have been playing since beta on the pc/Mac. I am not sure if you understand the controversy over the racial changes made to bosmers or not, but the changes to their stealth passive (or rather their lack of a stealth passive) is what many of us are upset about. And the subject of this thread.

    Yes, Tamriel unlimited was a great change, but that’s a different subject entirely.
    They're trying to deflect (also I'd like to thank them for, once again, bumping the thread). Truth is, even the few who posted here telling us to shut up, can't come up with an argument - mind you, I'm not even say a good argument - that addresses the subject of this thread.
    anadandy wrote: »
    And there it is. I'm laying money down that this is the planned "open stealth to all" idea that was the reason Bosmer got the shaft.

    Vesture of Darloc Brae (Overland Elsweyr set)
    Set bonus
    (2 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
    (3 items) Adds 129 Stamina Recovery
    (4 items) Reduces the radius you can be detected while sneaking by 2 meters. Reduces the cost of sneak by 10%.
    (5 items) While crouching, you restore 647 Magicka and Stamina and heal for 698 every second.

    Source

    They gutted the race to pimp a new set. (yes, overly dramatic)

    I will be trying this set on both a wood elf and a Khajiit when the PTS goes live. As I've pointed before, the original idea was for Khajiit to have a 5 meters radius, but it had to be taken back to 3 meters. Unless my math was completely wrong, there was only a 1 meter leeway from playable to broken.

    We have 14 slots total, one of the sets that already exists only needs 3 pieces to reduce the radius, the other requires 5 pieces, which will still allow player to wear this new set and have 2 slots for something else.

    This set effectively gives Khajiits back the 2 meters that were taken away from their passive.

    I was under the impression that Bethesda was a private company. What stock are they traded under?
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  • Cundu_Ertur
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    Still private so far as I can tell, so no ticker. Zenimax Media would be the parent company.
    Taking stealth away from the Bosmer is like taking magic away from the Altmer, making Nords allergic to mead, or making Orcs pretty.
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  • JayAstrophel
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    Still totally behind you all, friends. Every time I see this thread I’m glad you Bosmer players are standing up for yourselves.
    TAMRIEL MERCENARIES AND ADVENTURERS SOCIETY
    CP460
    level cap characters -
    Aren'dra - khajiit ww stamblade - DPS - sneak-thief wanderer
    still leveling -
    Danara-jo - khajiit vamp magblade - healer - ancient scholar
    Lost-In-His-Wanderings - argonian magplar - healer - melancholy dreamer
    Riin-daro the Returned- khajiit necro - tank - pieced back together
    Paints-the-Skies - argonian magden - DPS - storyteller
    Furrin-ko - khajiit magden - healer - wild at heart
    Completely-Innocent - argonian magdk - DPS - gets into trouble
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  • DenMoria
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    BlueRaven wrote: »
    KMarble wrote: »
    DenMoria wrote: »
    Seraphayel wrote: »
    Seraphayel wrote: »
    BlueRaven wrote: »
    Hopefully by this time tomorrow we will know if the passives will change.

    No they won't and you already knew this when the racials went live.

    Oh, it's everybody knowledge that racials won't be revisited in nearest couple of years. This thread and those Q&A is just a reminder not to put a single cent in this game. (though i put a lot before and regularly, literally buying anything i like)

    Well then punish ZOS with your wallet.

    Why? And what punishment? You're just one person and/or a small group.

    The rest of us don't have a problem.

    If you want to "punish" a multi-billion corporation by not giving them chump change, go for it.
    This game makes the parent company money 3 ways:
    - shares
    - sales of the game itself
    - and the one that truly keeps the servers up and running : subscriptions and expansions

    Sale of shares is the reason why there are events - events generate traffic to old areas and retains a residual population after events are over. The company can then show those numbers to investors as evidence that the game is alive and well.

    Sales of the game itself are not only a gamble (some expansions might not be well received), they don't keep the game going. Unlike a single player game, the economic model for a MMO isn't based on the initial purchase because, unlike a single player game, they need to keep the servers (and the people who work in the game) paid.

    Subscriptions and to an extent expansions are what keeps the game alive and running. I hope, for the sake of all of us who play this game, that the people in charge don't think like you and go "oh, well. It's just one person and/or small group". That is a good way to destroy their business.

    BlueRaven wrote: »
    Well I have been playing since beta on the pc/Mac. I am not sure if you understand the controversy over the racial changes made to bosmers or not, but the changes to their stealth passive (or rather their lack of a stealth passive) is what many of us are upset about. And the subject of this thread.

    Yes, Tamriel unlimited was a great change, but that’s a different subject entirely.
    They're trying to deflect (also I'd like to thank them for, once again, bumping the thread). Truth is, even the few who posted here telling us to shut up, can't come up with an argument - mind you, I'm not even say a good argument - that addresses the subject of this thread.
    anadandy wrote: »
    And there it is. I'm laying money down that this is the planned "open stealth to all" idea that was the reason Bosmer got the shaft.

    Vesture of Darloc Brae (Overland Elsweyr set)
    Set bonus
    (2 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
    (3 items) Adds 129 Stamina Recovery
    (4 items) Reduces the radius you can be detected while sneaking by 2 meters. Reduces the cost of sneak by 10%.
    (5 items) While crouching, you restore 647 Magicka and Stamina and heal for 698 every second.

    Source

    They gutted the race to pimp a new set. (yes, overly dramatic)

    I will be trying this set on both a wood elf and a Khajiit when the PTS goes live. As I've pointed before, the original idea was for Khajiit to have a 5 meters radius, but it had to be taken back to 3 meters. Unless my math was completely wrong, there was only a 1 meter leeway from playable to broken.

    We have 14 slots total, one of the sets that already exists only needs 3 pieces to reduce the radius, the other requires 5 pieces, which will still allow player to wear this new set and have 2 slots for something else.

    This set effectively gives Khajiits back the 2 meters that were taken away from their passive.

    I was under the impression that Bethesda was a private company. What stock are they traded under?

    They're not. ZOS is a private company that owns any number of studios including all of the Bethesda variations.

    They, of course, have their own stockholders, but is most definately not public.

    I don't think Linda Carter would allow that. :)
    Options
  • BlueRaven
    BlueRaven
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    DenMoria wrote: »
    BlueRaven wrote: »
    KMarble wrote: »
    DenMoria wrote: »
    Seraphayel wrote: »
    Seraphayel wrote: »
    BlueRaven wrote: »
    Hopefully by this time tomorrow we will know if the passives will change.

    No they won't and you already knew this when the racials went live.

    Oh, it's everybody knowledge that racials won't be revisited in nearest couple of years. This thread and those Q&A is just a reminder not to put a single cent in this game. (though i put a lot before and regularly, literally buying anything i like)

    Well then punish ZOS with your wallet.

    Why? And what punishment? You're just one person and/or a small group.

    The rest of us don't have a problem.

    If you want to "punish" a multi-billion corporation by not giving them chump change, go for it.
    This game makes the parent company money 3 ways:
    - shares
    - sales of the game itself
    - and the one that truly keeps the servers up and running : subscriptions and expansions

    Sale of shares is the reason why there are events - events generate traffic to old areas and retains a residual population after events are over. The company can then show those numbers to investors as evidence that the game is alive and well.

    Sales of the game itself are not only a gamble (some expansions might not be well received), they don't keep the game going. Unlike a single player game, the economic model for a MMO isn't based on the initial purchase because, unlike a single player game, they need to keep the servers (and the people who work in the game) paid.

    Subscriptions and to an extent expansions are what keeps the game alive and running. I hope, for the sake of all of us who play this game, that the people in charge don't think like you and go "oh, well. It's just one person and/or small group". That is a good way to destroy their business.

    BlueRaven wrote: »
    Well I have been playing since beta on the pc/Mac. I am not sure if you understand the controversy over the racial changes made to bosmers or not, but the changes to their stealth passive (or rather their lack of a stealth passive) is what many of us are upset about. And the subject of this thread.

    Yes, Tamriel unlimited was a great change, but that’s a different subject entirely.
    They're trying to deflect (also I'd like to thank them for, once again, bumping the thread). Truth is, even the few who posted here telling us to shut up, can't come up with an argument - mind you, I'm not even say a good argument - that addresses the subject of this thread.
    anadandy wrote: »
    And there it is. I'm laying money down that this is the planned "open stealth to all" idea that was the reason Bosmer got the shaft.

    Vesture of Darloc Brae (Overland Elsweyr set)
    Set bonus
    (2 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
    (3 items) Adds 129 Stamina Recovery
    (4 items) Reduces the radius you can be detected while sneaking by 2 meters. Reduces the cost of sneak by 10%.
    (5 items) While crouching, you restore 647 Magicka and Stamina and heal for 698 every second.

    Source

    They gutted the race to pimp a new set. (yes, overly dramatic)

    I will be trying this set on both a wood elf and a Khajiit when the PTS goes live. As I've pointed before, the original idea was for Khajiit to have a 5 meters radius, but it had to be taken back to 3 meters. Unless my math was completely wrong, there was only a 1 meter leeway from playable to broken.

    We have 14 slots total, one of the sets that already exists only needs 3 pieces to reduce the radius, the other requires 5 pieces, which will still allow player to wear this new set and have 2 slots for something else.

    This set effectively gives Khajiits back the 2 meters that were taken away from their passive.

    I was under the impression that Bethesda was a private company. What stock are they traded under?

    They're not. ZOS is a private company that owns any number of studios including all of the Bethesda variations.

    They, of course, have their own stockholders, but is most definately not public.

    I don't think Linda Carter would allow that. :)

    I knew Bethesda was owned by ZOS, but many people use the ZOS and Bethesda monikers interchangeably (as do I).

    I looked up to see if they were a private company years ago, I just wanted to know if anything had changed.
    Options
  • Ratzkifal
    Ratzkifal
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    DenMoria wrote: »
    BlueRaven wrote: »
    KMarble wrote: »
    DenMoria wrote: »
    Seraphayel wrote: »
    Seraphayel wrote: »
    BlueRaven wrote: »
    Hopefully by this time tomorrow we will know if the passives will change.

    No they won't and you already knew this when the racials went live.

    Oh, it's everybody knowledge that racials won't be revisited in nearest couple of years. This thread and those Q&A is just a reminder not to put a single cent in this game. (though i put a lot before and regularly, literally buying anything i like)

    Well then punish ZOS with your wallet.

    Why? And what punishment? You're just one person and/or a small group.

    The rest of us don't have a problem.

    If you want to "punish" a multi-billion corporation by not giving them chump change, go for it.
    This game makes the parent company money 3 ways:
    - shares
    - sales of the game itself
    - and the one that truly keeps the servers up and running : subscriptions and expansions

    Sale of shares is the reason why there are events - events generate traffic to old areas and retains a residual population after events are over. The company can then show those numbers to investors as evidence that the game is alive and well.

    Sales of the game itself are not only a gamble (some expansions might not be well received), they don't keep the game going. Unlike a single player game, the economic model for a MMO isn't based on the initial purchase because, unlike a single player game, they need to keep the servers (and the people who work in the game) paid.

    Subscriptions and to an extent expansions are what keeps the game alive and running. I hope, for the sake of all of us who play this game, that the people in charge don't think like you and go "oh, well. It's just one person and/or small group". That is a good way to destroy their business.

    BlueRaven wrote: »
    Well I have been playing since beta on the pc/Mac. I am not sure if you understand the controversy over the racial changes made to bosmers or not, but the changes to their stealth passive (or rather their lack of a stealth passive) is what many of us are upset about. And the subject of this thread.

    Yes, Tamriel unlimited was a great change, but that’s a different subject entirely.
    They're trying to deflect (also I'd like to thank them for, once again, bumping the thread). Truth is, even the few who posted here telling us to shut up, can't come up with an argument - mind you, I'm not even say a good argument - that addresses the subject of this thread.
    anadandy wrote: »
    And there it is. I'm laying money down that this is the planned "open stealth to all" idea that was the reason Bosmer got the shaft.

    Vesture of Darloc Brae (Overland Elsweyr set)
    Set bonus
    (2 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
    (3 items) Adds 129 Stamina Recovery
    (4 items) Reduces the radius you can be detected while sneaking by 2 meters. Reduces the cost of sneak by 10%.
    (5 items) While crouching, you restore 647 Magicka and Stamina and heal for 698 every second.

    Source

    They gutted the race to pimp a new set. (yes, overly dramatic)

    I will be trying this set on both a wood elf and a Khajiit when the PTS goes live. As I've pointed before, the original idea was for Khajiit to have a 5 meters radius, but it had to be taken back to 3 meters. Unless my math was completely wrong, there was only a 1 meter leeway from playable to broken.

    We have 14 slots total, one of the sets that already exists only needs 3 pieces to reduce the radius, the other requires 5 pieces, which will still allow player to wear this new set and have 2 slots for something else.

    This set effectively gives Khajiits back the 2 meters that were taken away from their passive.

    I was under the impression that Bethesda was a private company. What stock are they traded under?

    They're not. ZOS is a private company that owns any number of studios including all of the Bethesda variations.

    They, of course, have their own stockholders, but is most definately not public.

    I don't think Linda Carter would allow that. :)
    BlueRaven wrote: »
    DenMoria wrote: »
    BlueRaven wrote: »
    KMarble wrote: »
    DenMoria wrote: »
    Seraphayel wrote: »
    Seraphayel wrote: »
    BlueRaven wrote: »
    Hopefully by this time tomorrow we will know if the passives will change.

    No they won't and you already knew this when the racials went live.

    Oh, it's everybody knowledge that racials won't be revisited in nearest couple of years. This thread and those Q&A is just a reminder not to put a single cent in this game. (though i put a lot before and regularly, literally buying anything i like)

    Well then punish ZOS with your wallet.

    Why? And what punishment? You're just one person and/or a small group.

    The rest of us don't have a problem.

    If you want to "punish" a multi-billion corporation by not giving them chump change, go for it.
    This game makes the parent company money 3 ways:
    - shares
    - sales of the game itself
    - and the one that truly keeps the servers up and running : subscriptions and expansions

    Sale of shares is the reason why there are events - events generate traffic to old areas and retains a residual population after events are over. The company can then show those numbers to investors as evidence that the game is alive and well.

    Sales of the game itself are not only a gamble (some expansions might not be well received), they don't keep the game going. Unlike a single player game, the economic model for a MMO isn't based on the initial purchase because, unlike a single player game, they need to keep the servers (and the people who work in the game) paid.

    Subscriptions and to an extent expansions are what keeps the game alive and running. I hope, for the sake of all of us who play this game, that the people in charge don't think like you and go "oh, well. It's just one person and/or small group". That is a good way to destroy their business.

    BlueRaven wrote: »
    Well I have been playing since beta on the pc/Mac. I am not sure if you understand the controversy over the racial changes made to bosmers or not, but the changes to their stealth passive (or rather their lack of a stealth passive) is what many of us are upset about. And the subject of this thread.

    Yes, Tamriel unlimited was a great change, but that’s a different subject entirely.
    They're trying to deflect (also I'd like to thank them for, once again, bumping the thread). Truth is, even the few who posted here telling us to shut up, can't come up with an argument - mind you, I'm not even say a good argument - that addresses the subject of this thread.
    anadandy wrote: »
    And there it is. I'm laying money down that this is the planned "open stealth to all" idea that was the reason Bosmer got the shaft.

    Vesture of Darloc Brae (Overland Elsweyr set)
    Set bonus
    (2 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
    (3 items) Adds 129 Stamina Recovery
    (4 items) Reduces the radius you can be detected while sneaking by 2 meters. Reduces the cost of sneak by 10%.
    (5 items) While crouching, you restore 647 Magicka and Stamina and heal for 698 every second.

    Source

    They gutted the race to pimp a new set. (yes, overly dramatic)

    I will be trying this set on both a wood elf and a Khajiit when the PTS goes live. As I've pointed before, the original idea was for Khajiit to have a 5 meters radius, but it had to be taken back to 3 meters. Unless my math was completely wrong, there was only a 1 meter leeway from playable to broken.

    We have 14 slots total, one of the sets that already exists only needs 3 pieces to reduce the radius, the other requires 5 pieces, which will still allow player to wear this new set and have 2 slots for something else.

    This set effectively gives Khajiits back the 2 meters that were taken away from their passive.

    I was under the impression that Bethesda was a private company. What stock are they traded under?

    They're not. ZOS is a private company that owns any number of studios including all of the Bethesda variations.

    They, of course, have their own stockholders, but is most definately not public.

    I don't think Linda Carter would allow that. :)

    I knew Bethesda was owned by ZOS, but many people use the ZOS and Bethesda monikers interchangeably (as do I).

    I looked up to see if they were a private company years ago, I just wanted to know if anything had changed.

    ZOS is not Zenimax Media. Zenimax Media owns ZOS and Bethesda
    This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.
    Options
  • Kater_Murr
    Kater_Murr
    ✭✭✭
    Uhm, a bit of off-topic, but I suppouse many of us here are not only Bosmer, but Nightblades too, so I thought it might be of interest. It seems that with Elsweyr we are going to lose our Minor Berserk.

    *rant incoming*

    So first they made my main, Altmer Sorcerer, inferior to some Bretons. Then they took away stealth from my second character, Bosmer Nightblade. As my third (and looks like my last) character, Dunmer Nightblade, was kinda unscathed, they decided to make her inferior too. I think it's time for me to part with this game.

    *rant over*

    No, seriously. I've already wouldn't buy Elsweyr, at least not until they return stealth to my Bosmer, but this... this is a bit too aggravating for me.

    *rant over. this time - for sure*
    Edited by Kater_Murr on March 29, 2019 8:07PM
    Options
  • BlueRaven
    BlueRaven
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ratzkifal wrote: »
    DenMoria wrote: »
    BlueRaven wrote: »
    KMarble wrote: »
    DenMoria wrote: »
    Seraphayel wrote: »
    Seraphayel wrote: »
    BlueRaven wrote: »
    Hopefully by this time tomorrow we will know if the passives will change.

    No they won't and you already knew this when the racials went live.

    Oh, it's everybody knowledge that racials won't be revisited in nearest couple of years. This thread and those Q&A is just a reminder not to put a single cent in this game. (though i put a lot before and regularly, literally buying anything i like)

    Well then punish ZOS with your wallet.

    Why? And what punishment? You're just one person and/or a small group.

    The rest of us don't have a problem.

    If you want to "punish" a multi-billion corporation by not giving them chump change, go for it.
    This game makes the parent company money 3 ways:
    - shares
    - sales of the game itself
    - and the one that truly keeps the servers up and running : subscriptions and expansions

    Sale of shares is the reason why there are events - events generate traffic to old areas and retains a residual population after events are over. The company can then show those numbers to investors as evidence that the game is alive and well.

    Sales of the game itself are not only a gamble (some expansions might not be well received), they don't keep the game going. Unlike a single player game, the economic model for a MMO isn't based on the initial purchase because, unlike a single player game, they need to keep the servers (and the people who work in the game) paid.

    Subscriptions and to an extent expansions are what keeps the game alive and running. I hope, for the sake of all of us who play this game, that the people in charge don't think like you and go "oh, well. It's just one person and/or small group". That is a good way to destroy their business.

    BlueRaven wrote: »
    Well I have been playing since beta on the pc/Mac. I am not sure if you understand the controversy over the racial changes made to bosmers or not, but the changes to their stealth passive (or rather their lack of a stealth passive) is what many of us are upset about. And the subject of this thread.

    Yes, Tamriel unlimited was a great change, but that’s a different subject entirely.
    They're trying to deflect (also I'd like to thank them for, once again, bumping the thread). Truth is, even the few who posted here telling us to shut up, can't come up with an argument - mind you, I'm not even say a good argument - that addresses the subject of this thread.
    anadandy wrote: »
    And there it is. I'm laying money down that this is the planned "open stealth to all" idea that was the reason Bosmer got the shaft.

    Vesture of Darloc Brae (Overland Elsweyr set)
    Set bonus
    (2 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
    (3 items) Adds 129 Stamina Recovery
    (4 items) Reduces the radius you can be detected while sneaking by 2 meters. Reduces the cost of sneak by 10%.
    (5 items) While crouching, you restore 647 Magicka and Stamina and heal for 698 every second.

    Source

    They gutted the race to pimp a new set. (yes, overly dramatic)

    I will be trying this set on both a wood elf and a Khajiit when the PTS goes live. As I've pointed before, the original idea was for Khajiit to have a 5 meters radius, but it had to be taken back to 3 meters. Unless my math was completely wrong, there was only a 1 meter leeway from playable to broken.

    We have 14 slots total, one of the sets that already exists only needs 3 pieces to reduce the radius, the other requires 5 pieces, which will still allow player to wear this new set and have 2 slots for something else.

    This set effectively gives Khajiits back the 2 meters that were taken away from their passive.

    I was under the impression that Bethesda was a private company. What stock are they traded under?

    They're not. ZOS is a private company that owns any number of studios including all of the Bethesda variations.

    They, of course, have their own stockholders, but is most definately not public.

    I don't think Linda Carter would allow that. :)
    BlueRaven wrote: »
    DenMoria wrote: »
    BlueRaven wrote: »
    KMarble wrote: »
    DenMoria wrote: »
    Seraphayel wrote: »
    Seraphayel wrote: »
    BlueRaven wrote: »
    Hopefully by this time tomorrow we will know if the passives will change.

    No they won't and you already knew this when the racials went live.

    Oh, it's everybody knowledge that racials won't be revisited in nearest couple of years. This thread and those Q&A is just a reminder not to put a single cent in this game. (though i put a lot before and regularly, literally buying anything i like)

    Well then punish ZOS with your wallet.

    Why? And what punishment? You're just one person and/or a small group.

    The rest of us don't have a problem.

    If you want to "punish" a multi-billion corporation by not giving them chump change, go for it.
    This game makes the parent company money 3 ways:
    - shares
    - sales of the game itself
    - and the one that truly keeps the servers up and running : subscriptions and expansions

    Sale of shares is the reason why there are events - events generate traffic to old areas and retains a residual population after events are over. The company can then show those numbers to investors as evidence that the game is alive and well.

    Sales of the game itself are not only a gamble (some expansions might not be well received), they don't keep the game going. Unlike a single player game, the economic model for a MMO isn't based on the initial purchase because, unlike a single player game, they need to keep the servers (and the people who work in the game) paid.

    Subscriptions and to an extent expansions are what keeps the game alive and running. I hope, for the sake of all of us who play this game, that the people in charge don't think like you and go "oh, well. It's just one person and/or small group". That is a good way to destroy their business.

    BlueRaven wrote: »
    Well I have been playing since beta on the pc/Mac. I am not sure if you understand the controversy over the racial changes made to bosmers or not, but the changes to their stealth passive (or rather their lack of a stealth passive) is what many of us are upset about. And the subject of this thread.

    Yes, Tamriel unlimited was a great change, but that’s a different subject entirely.
    They're trying to deflect (also I'd like to thank them for, once again, bumping the thread). Truth is, even the few who posted here telling us to shut up, can't come up with an argument - mind you, I'm not even say a good argument - that addresses the subject of this thread.
    anadandy wrote: »
    And there it is. I'm laying money down that this is the planned "open stealth to all" idea that was the reason Bosmer got the shaft.

    Vesture of Darloc Brae (Overland Elsweyr set)
    Set bonus
    (2 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
    (3 items) Adds 129 Stamina Recovery
    (4 items) Reduces the radius you can be detected while sneaking by 2 meters. Reduces the cost of sneak by 10%.
    (5 items) While crouching, you restore 647 Magicka and Stamina and heal for 698 every second.

    Source

    They gutted the race to pimp a new set. (yes, overly dramatic)

    I will be trying this set on both a wood elf and a Khajiit when the PTS goes live. As I've pointed before, the original idea was for Khajiit to have a 5 meters radius, but it had to be taken back to 3 meters. Unless my math was completely wrong, there was only a 1 meter leeway from playable to broken.

    We have 14 slots total, one of the sets that already exists only needs 3 pieces to reduce the radius, the other requires 5 pieces, which will still allow player to wear this new set and have 2 slots for something else.

    This set effectively gives Khajiits back the 2 meters that were taken away from their passive.

    I was under the impression that Bethesda was a private company. What stock are they traded under?

    They're not. ZOS is a private company that owns any number of studios including all of the Bethesda variations.

    They, of course, have their own stockholders, but is most definately not public.

    I don't think Linda Carter would allow that. :)

    I knew Bethesda was owned by ZOS, but many people use the ZOS and Bethesda monikers interchangeably (as do I).

    I looked up to see if they were a private company years ago, I just wanted to know if anything had changed.

    ZOS is not Zenimax Media. Zenimax Media owns ZOS and Bethesda

    I think we are breaking down into needless semantics at this point but sure. And they are all part of one big PRIVATE company.
    Kater_Murr wrote: »
    Uhm, a bit of off-topic, but I suppouse many of us here are not only Bosmer, but Nightblades too, so I thought it might be of interest. It seems that with Elsweyr we are going to lose our Minor Berserk.

    *rant incoming*

    So first they made my main, Altmer Sorcerer, inferior to some Bretons. Then they took away stealth from my second character, Bosmer Nightblade. As my third (and looks like my last) character, Dunmer Nightblade, was kinda unscathed, now they decided to make her inferior too. Looks like it's time for me to part with this game.

    *rant over*

    No, seriously. I've already wouldn't buy Elsweyr, at least not until they return stealth to my Bosmer, but this... this is a bit too aggravating for me.

    *rant over. this time - for sure*

    Oh but didn’t you hear? It’s still pre PTS so it is all subject to change! :|

    •••

    Anyway I am in Boston waiting to get in to the Bethesda event. There are hundreds of people on line here. So I am not sure if I will be able to actually ask anyone of import anything relevant.

    Still I will try.
    Options
  • BlueRaven
    BlueRaven
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Btw, the rumor of what class changes might be gets two responses.

    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/465659/where-were-the-upcoming-class-changes-officially-released-at/p1

    Here, 45+ pages, nothing.
    Options
  • Kater_Murr
    Kater_Murr
    ✭✭✭
    BlueRaven wrote: »
    Oh but didn’t you hear? It’s still pre PTS so it is all subject to change! :|

    Yeah, very funny ;)
    BlueRaven wrote: »
    Anyway I am in Boston waiting to get in to the Bethesda event. There are hundreds of people on line here. So I am not sure if I will be able to actually ask anyone of import anything relevant.

    Still I will try.

    Y'ffre help you to tell them our story, brother.
    Options
  • IwakuraLain42
    IwakuraLain42
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    DenMoria wrote: »
    They're not. ZOS is a private company that owns any number of studios including all of the Bethesda variations.

    They, of course, have their own stockholders, but is most definately not public.

    I don't think Linda Carter would allow that. :)

    Actually it's Zenimax Media that holds both Bethesda Softworks and Zenimax Online. And yes, they are privately traded.

    If you want to know how they are making money you only need to look at the stuff that ZOS works on and how they present themself. As noted the sources of income are:
    • Selling new copies of the game
    • Subscriptions
    • Cash Store

    The main reason for each Chapter and the reason they are marketed as standalone content is that they want to sell as many copies each year as possible. That's the reason they rode the nostalgica train Morrowind so hard and why they choosed Summerset last year (never seen in Tamriel content before). And that's also the reason why we have Elswyr this year. Apparently the last chapter wasn't so successful, so they had to had another joker from ES content this year: Dragons !

    Combine this with one of the most predatory cash shops I've seen in any game and you know where they earn their money. Keeping players by keeping them content or by fixing the game have a very low priority. Heck, it took them five years to implement something as basic as a search function for their trading system.
    Options
  • luizpaulom17
    luizpaulom17
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    Stop crying m8... U just want that passive back so U can keep using cloak and snipe on BGs, like most elves and Cats used tu do... Get over it...

    I hated losing my cat 8% crit, was crying on forums for it... and when changes came to Live got 2k more DPS on first try... They did a good job over all, ony orc now seems a bit OP, but still its more balanced.

    Actually my ability to use cloak and snipe is completely unaffected, so you lose there.
    What the gankers would complain about was the loss of the 10% damage boost out of stealth, which we haven't complained about at all, so you lose there.
    We've already addressed this multiple times, so you lose there.

    kthnxbye

    Wood Elves lost their passives, so U lost there. U guys kept crying here everyday and ZOS still doesnt really care, so U lost there. One monte after new patch came to live, ZOS is focus on necro, U keep crying here and nothing has changed, so U lost there!

    The same guys are comenting here in this post tô keep it loud and on top... Just give up, its gone guys, get over!
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  • Ogou
    Ogou
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    BlueRaven wrote: »
    Btw, the rumor of what class changes might be gets two responses.

    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/465659/where-were-the-upcoming-class-changes-officially-released-at/p1

    Here, 45+ pages, nothing.

    The way I see it there's no way for ZOS to give an answer here that will do less harm than just not saying anything.

    So this is just a tug of war between the people in this thread and ZOS. The first side to let go loses. Though I really wonder how long ZOS can keep this up.
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