Does anyone else have issue with light-attack weaving on a technical level?

MikaHR

wherew0lf wrote: »

I can use light attacks on a parse all day (and ele weapon) but when it comes to actually playing content I can’t get my LAs to go off. Like when I’m moving about, etc, they seem to not register half of the time. I can have my target marked also, doesn’t make a difference.

I am retired from trials, so I don’t really care, it’s especially bad in PvP though.

I’m on console, so the frame rate sucks regardless.

On PC youre lucky if skills go off....LAs are really not even in consideration

But its fun to watch nothing happenign for a few s and then BAM!!!!!!! all at once. Its like super ultra mega BURST!

mairwen85

mairwen85 wrote: »

Varana wrote: »

The original post had nothing to do with animation cancelling.

Indeed -- but that in itself is an issue. Many people confuse the two terms and demonise weaving as an invalid method of play, believing it to be a glitch or exploit. So they pass it off as unnecessary or an unfair advantage.

The real issue here is inconsistency and unreliability of attacks with high ping. As a community we must be able to put our heads together and come up with a viable build or rotation for these scenarios?

prevous post with some linked ideas

Unreliability of attacks, bar swaps etc -- as mentioned, one bar setups are viable and could help serve as a workaround for high ping in some cases.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/430541/one-bar-builds-for-solo-pve-discussion/p1

One bar builds discussion (linked for relevence)

mikemacon

As somewhat of a side note, I’d recommend leaving whatever guild you’re a part of that requires 40k.

There is absolutely no content in the game that can’t be completed with 30k.

In fact, there’s no content that can’t be completed with 25k - yes, that includes vMOL.

It’s significantly easier with higher DPS, but that’s not the same thing as saying you “can’t” complete it with 25k.

If your guild requires 40k, either they’re going for speed/score runs (which is entirely understandable and probably not what you’re after to begin with) or they don’t understand/are terrified of mechanics.

There are many guilds out there that aren’t über-l33t sweaty speed runners that would be more than happy with your 38k.

Your mileage may vary.

sirpz

mikemacon wrote: »

As somewhat of a side note, I’d recommend leaving whatever guild you’re a part of that requires 40k.

There is absolutely no content in the game that can’t be completed with 30k.

In fact, there’s no content that can’t be completed with 25k - yes, that includes vMOL.

It’s significantly easier with higher DPS, but that’s not the same thing as saying you “can’t” complete it with 25k.

If your guild requires 40k, either they’re going for speed/score runs (which is entirely understandable and probably not what you’re after to begin with) or they don’t understand/are terrified of mechanics.

There are many guilds out there that aren’t über-l33t sweaty speed runners that would be more than happy with your 38k.

Your mileage may vary.

none of my guilds requires 40k, but to get into core runs or to not suffer with newbies or pugs you need 45k/50k+ on stam toons and 35k/45k+ on mag toons. The only trials I have yet to complete is vHoF and vCR (I did vAS, just not +1/+2). And for a while Ive been trying to get into doing a vHoF run, but can never manage. Funny enough one of my guildies said it should be a standard raid parse to hit 70k dps lol, and just the other day another guildie posted an 83k parse on rakkhat. crazy stuff.

deLioncourt

Animation Canceling in this game was originally considered a bug.

I remember when Zenimax tried to fix it, failed multiple times, threw their hands up in the air and said,

"*** IT! It's a FEATURE!"

The_Lex

deLioncourt wrote: »

Animation Canceling in this game was originally considered a bug.

I remember when Zenimax tried to fix it, failed multiple times, threw their hands up in the air and said,

"*** IT! It's a FEATURE!"

Which is why animation cancelling in this game is clunky. It wasn't supposed to be there in the first place.

Flares

Hallothiel wrote: »

I just hate the concept of rotations. And the idea that I have to spend precious time in game standing in front of a dummy practising - this is not my job, this is my relaxation!

And rotations don’t really help in trials as much as people make out - you have to be adaptive as bosses rarely stand still in front of you 😝

If you can't do a rotation on a dummy, you will never do it in a fight

sigsergv

I just don't understand how this “weaving” or “animation cancelling” works, I've seen a few videos, tried some decent sets but still cannot pass over 20k. I play magic templar since beta (with long vacations though) and don't have any other characters except nord tank I use to get gear from vet dungeons. Main templar usually heals and do this just fine. But DPS… DPS seems impossible to me.

Sylvermynx

ezio45 wrote: »

What is a good ping?

Um. Anything less than 200 ms?

Iskiab

Can’t fix animation cancelling? Why would they want to do that, to me it looks like they’re tuning around light attacks being a game feature. They should just add a settings option to turn all animations off - problem solved. Either that or standardize all animations to .5 seconds.

DjMuscleboy02

@sirpz I read most of the responses but skimmed through a lot so apologies if this has already been touched on. I would do a parse, then check your fight time against number of light attacks landed. So let's say your fight time was 111 seconds. A good light attack ratio to have is about .8 la/s. So you'd be looking for around 88-90 light attacks. I'm willing to bet your light attack ratio is not as good as you think, I'd imagine ~.5. This could lead to other issues like your skills running off, enchantments not procing, obviously on a nb you'd miss more bow procs, etc. I can assure you that, if you are truly doing everything correctly, 40k is not difficult to get on a target dummy on any class with good gear. It just takes a little time and practice.

@restofthetopic:
Just because YOU cannot do something does not mean it's broken, impossible, or cheating. There are very clearly players who can do very good damage, there are players who live in Australia and play on NA that do just as good damage as every else even with 200-300 ping. Part of PvE is having a good concept of light attack weaving to do good damage. If you can't do that then PvE is not "too easy", you're just bad. So either keep doing PvP and spamming your ambush on a single player or just get better at the game. Don't push to dumb it down because you can't grasp a simple concept of pointing and clicking.

r34lian

I play from Asia max cp with around 350+ ping and my trial guild wants 35k+ dps for vet Cloudrest but i cant seem to manage get past over 30k dps I swear how many time my light attacks dont register morever even most of my skills for instance my trap beast wont go off if i try to bar swap quickly , did last parse when I ws cp 500ish then gave up the hope and never did parse again fine with running arround with pugs no need for those skins -_-

Rungar

i can do it but i think its a horrible poison for this game so i dont participate. Ive gotten around it by playing tank and healer.

-invalidates cast time abilities
- not all classes get equal use of it.
- has an inverted cost to effect ratio ( free with maximum effect)
- excludes massive amounts of people from endgame content
- questionable as it can be automated
- ugly
- makes the game too reliant on ping
- has its own defender force which makes it even more questionable to me.
- too much button pressing for the average player
- ugly again
- causes unnecessary lag
- unbalances the game and makes it impossible to balance
- divides the playerbase
- drives people from the game
- not worth the cost of having it

phileunderx2

Weaving with staves is very unreliable. Lighting staves the light attack often turns into an uncontrollable heavy and with the inferno it locks up and doesn't fire or if it does it is a heavy.
It's like the game doesn't understand our imput and thus just does a heavy by default.

Rungar

phileunderx2 wrote: »

Weaving with staves is very unreliable. Lighting staves the light attack often turns into an uncontrollable heavy and with the inferno it locks up and doesn't fire or if it does it is a heavy.
It's like the game doesn't understand our imput and thus just does a heavy by default.

sounds like you play with a controller and your light/heavy attack is on the trigger. Change it to another button. The triggers are terrible for this on the xbox/pc controllers.

Tan9oSuccka

My LA weaving almost never works in Cyrodiil and is starting to be hit or miss in PVE.

Oh that guy right in front of me? Nah, LA just totally misses. Not dodged or blocked, just failed.

*Shrugs*

SidraWillowsky

Rungar wrote: »

phileunderx2 wrote: »

Weaving with staves is very unreliable. Lighting staves the light attack often turns into an uncontrollable heavy and with the inferno it locks up and doesn't fire or if it does it is a heavy.
It's like the game doesn't understand our imput and thus just does a heavy by default.

sounds like you play with a controller and your light/heavy attack is on the trigger. Change it to another button. The triggers are terrible for this on the xbox/pc controllers.

WHAT. This explains so much... I use the RT and have those issues, but only with the magblade; my stamblade is fine.

I have a Razer Wolverine controller, so it has paddles on the bottom and two extra triggers. Is there a particular button that you'd recommend mapping it to? My LB/RB/X/Y/B are used for skills and the setup allows me to LA weave most effectively, so I'd rather not change one of those buttons to my LA button. Maybe one of the paddles?

Re. LA weaving... IDK how much practice the people criticizing LA weaving have done, but I am the so-called "average player"- just not super good at the game at a global level. BUT I'm pretty good with LA weaving. I didn't get there magically by having some mystical and innate skill specific to LA weaving. No... I've spent *hours* in front of a test dummy practicing. I've worked on LA weaving each skill individually, then LA weaving when transitioning from one skill to another. And weaving as it relates to bar swapping. Learning to bar swap-cancel certain abilities. Then taking all of that into actual combat and completely failing at it, but getting back to the dummy. The parse -> actually playing -> parse -> etc system works quite well for me; it becomes muscle memory fairly quickly. And it doesn't have to be super fast for someone to do well.

This likely came off rather sanctimoniously but that was not my intent. The key is that getting LA weaving down requires a fair bit of practice and "training" on a test dummy or the like. But when you DO get it down, man... it's a lot of fun.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

This is not directed at OP, but threads like this remind me why we are doomed as a species. People can't do something, and they blame everything but themselves. News flash, people that pull 50k on dummies practice, practice, and practice some more.

KBKB wrote: »

Mate, I'm going to let you in a secret here that people are too fan boi to admit.

PvE in this game is beyond awful, at a time it was just dominated by stupid RnG AoE and one shots required more luck than evasion to survive a fight, regardless of that being the past and they've moved in a better direction for design if you dont have a good ping your DPS will dramatically suffer why have the animation in the fist place if we are meant to clip through them. So why over here in AU where i have 380 ping regularly unless I use Mudfish (another story) should I suffer?

The whole design is incredibly flawed and leaves your toon looking like its a savage. For Sorc I don't even know what the rotation is anymore used to be

WoE>LA>Liquid lightening>LA>Force pulse>LA>Force pulse>LA repeat will hitting your shard procs in between that is so simple, so boring , and so stupid Im taping my mouse between every skill the WoW auto attack skill to name just one is far superior.

So here I am looking my toon has epilepsy and is having a standing fit the way its flailing around and all Im doing it using is using like 3 abilities in the burn phase of a boss feels stupid because of all the performance issues with the game im meant to continue snipping an ability with .2/.3 second margin for error on my ping its not just boring its inefficient I'll ask the question again why have animations if we just snip them off?

In you scenario I can only think of CP allocation or something because we all seem to get stuck on an ability and miss the clip at times DUE TO ITS TERRIBLE DESIGN Or maybe clipping into inefficient spells/skills? I'm not sure.

Rest assured its not just you, I got so annoyed with it I have not PvE'd anything past a normal dungeon in about 3 years I have no idea how to DPS on any toons anymore the thought of pulling 57k DPS on a NB makes me think trash pull because I can't conceive it possible nor on my sorc warden DK or especially templar? what do they even use for damage from class skills short of PoL anymore jabs would be awful single target I thought.

So now I only PvP which comes with issues but I dont have to deliver 1479 light attacks with perfect timing on a flawed premise and game for it.

Honestly, sounds like you need to find a new game. ESO wanted to distinguish themselves from other MMOs with a dynamic combat system. Unfortunately for many, that is going to require practice and a certain skill threshold to play effectively. Playing ESO is more demanding than playing WOW. Yes it is worse with ping, and certain parts of the world are going to have a harder time with this, but for example, I know several aussie players that have absolutely no issue pulling high DPS even though their ping is pretty lousy most of the time.

There are also several parts of the comment that frankly show a pretty poor understanding of how combat and DPS rotations actually function in this game.

To the OP, my advice is to keep at it. There are definitely little things you can spot check in your rotation. The best of the best will have a LA/sec ratio of .93 or so, but you dont need that to pull 50k. Mine is typically around .85-.9 and i can still break it solo. It did not get there overnight. It took hours and hours (and then some more hours) of beating on a dummy. Admittedly that is not for everyone, and I totally get that. On a nightblade, you can also look at how many seconds on average are passing between your spectral bow procs. If its more than about 7 seconds, again, you have rotation issues.

Also, as others have said, 50k ST DPS is not necessary for anything unless you are pushing score. Reasonable minds can disagree about what a realistic floor is, yes VMOL can be cleared with 25K DPS if you are perfect with mechanics. When we first started clearing VMOLHM back in the day we werent much above that. That said, if you cant pull 25k in the current meta (DPS is WAY up since then), I struggle to believe you will be able to play the mechanics as well as needed.

If high damage is your goal, stameblade might seem like a great class for it (it is top DPS afterall), but its also the most difficult class to play. I would suggest looking at a magplar or mag sorc in the current meta. Both are potentially 50k+ ST DPS, but the rotation is significantly easier on the fingers. If you struggle to weave, NB is absolutely the worst class to play as their class defining skill is designed around it.

r34lian

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

This is not directed at OP, but threads like this remind me why we are doomed as a species. People can't do something, and they blame everything but themselves. News flash, people that pull 50k on dummies practice, practice, and practice some more.

KBKB wrote: »

Mate, I'm going to let you in a secret here that people are too fan boi to admit.

PvE in this game is beyond awful, at a time it was just dominated by stupid RnG AoE and one shots required more luck than evasion to survive a fight, regardless of that being the past and they've moved in a better direction for design if you dont have a good ping your DPS will dramatically suffer why have the animation in the fist place if we are meant to clip through them. So why over here in AU where i have 380 ping regularly unless I use Mudfish (another story) should I suffer?

The whole design is incredibly flawed and leaves your toon looking like its a savage. For Sorc I don't even know what the rotation is anymore used to be

WoE>LA>Liquid lightening>LA>Force pulse>LA>Force pulse>LA repeat will hitting your shard procs in between that is so simple, so boring , and so stupid Im taping my mouse between every skill the WoW auto attack skill to name just one is far superior.

So here I am looking my toon has epilepsy and is having a standing fit the way its flailing around and all Im doing it using is using like 3 abilities in the burn phase of a boss feels stupid because of all the performance issues with the game im meant to continue snipping an ability with .2/.3 second margin for error on my ping its not just boring its inefficient I'll ask the question again why have animations if we just snip them off?

In you scenario I can only think of CP allocation or something because we all seem to get stuck on an ability and miss the clip at times DUE TO ITS TERRIBLE DESIGN Or maybe clipping into inefficient spells/skills? I'm not sure.

Rest assured its not just you, I got so annoyed with it I have not PvE'd anything past a normal dungeon in about 3 years I have no idea how to DPS on any toons anymore the thought of pulling 57k DPS on a NB makes me think trash pull because I can't conceive it possible nor on my sorc warden DK or especially templar? what do they even use for damage from class skills short of PoL anymore jabs would be awful single target I thought.

So now I only PvP which comes with issues but I dont have to deliver 1479 light attacks with perfect timing on a flawed premise and game for it.

Honestly, sounds like you need to find a new game. ESO wanted to distinguish themselves from other MMOs with a dynamic combat system. Unfortunately for many, that is going to require practice and a certain skill threshold to play effectively. Playing ESO is more demanding than playing WOW. Yes it is worse with ping, and certain parts of the world are going to have a harder time with this, but for example, I know several aussie players that have absolutely no issue pulling high DPS even though their ping is pretty lousy most of the time.

There are also several parts of the comment that frankly show a pretty poor understanding of how combat and DPS rotations actually function in this game.

To the OP, my advice is to keep at it. There are definitely little things you can spot check in your rotation. The best of the best will have a LA/sec ratio of .93 or so, but you dont need that to pull 50k. Mine is typically around .85-.9 and i can still break it solo. It did not get there overnight. It took hours and hours (and then some more hours) of beating on a dummy. Admittedly that is not for everyone, and I totally get that. On a nightblade, you can also look at how many seconds on average are passing between your spectral bow procs. If its more than about 7 seconds, again, you have rotation issues.

Also, as others have said, 50k ST DPS is not necessary for anything unless you are pushing score. Reasonable minds can disagree about what a realistic floor is, yes VMOL can be cleared with 25K DPS if you are perfect with mechanics. When we first started clearing VMOLHM back in the day we werent much above that. That said, if you cant pull 25k in the current meta (DPS is WAY up since then), I struggle to believe you will be able to play the mechanics as well as needed.

If high damage is your goal, stameblade might seem like a great class for it (it is top DPS afterall), but its also the most difficult class to play. I would suggest looking at a magplar or mag sorc in the current meta. Both are potentially 50k+ ST DPS, but the rotation is significantly easier on the fingers. If you struggle to weave, NB is absolutely the worst class to play as their class defining skill is designed around it.

Excuse my good sir what you say dynamic combat is actually a bug which they FAILED to fix and one of the reasons for power creep!

p00tx

squinceybones wrote: »

If I light attack, use my liquid lightning, light attack, use wall of elements, barswap, cast curse, light attack, cast crystal frags, light attack, cast elemental weapon. At which point am I "animation cancelling"? The ability doesn't go off until the light attack finishes and I can't light attack again until the ability finishes and the global cooldown of however long expires.

The term "animation cancelling" confuses a lot of people. Light attack weaving and animation cancelling are one and the same, if they're being done correctly. You don't actually cancel many ability animations. What you're primarily cancelling are your light attacks which only actually need 0.5 seconds to affect the target, by using a skill a full half second after using a light attack. You want one LA before each skill used, to both proc glyph dmg and to fill the space that exists between skill wait times with more dmg (instant cast skills need a minimum of 1 second to be effective).

Granted, there are other forms of cancelling, like block cancelling (not recommended, since you're missing out on a dmg opportunity), and bar swap cancelling (does not work well with all skills, but is great for cancelling many ulti animations), but LA cancels are the most commonly used and the best way to add some easy dmg to your rotation.

IzzyStardust

I am low dps, high ping for my area (260+) and the only way I’ve managed on a magblade to get 40k is spam the crap out of LA (not la then skill but lalalllskillaallskilllala - legit just spam auto attack) and hit my skills/procs on CD. (As in - I reapply on expire, not in a static rotation, but a dynamic one) because my latency makes me miss so many la, spamming la is what’s worked for me.

I main a healer and also tank; so I don’t practise as much as people who main dps - but spamming my la with spammable between but keeping dots up on CD is working-ish.

I know it sounds crazy - but it’s what works for me - to a degree - and I reckon if I actually hit my procs on time and refreshed dots on time and refreshed ele drain and siphoning on time, I could do much better - but I just don’t because I don’t drill enough.

I don’t know if that helps anyway, but maybe it does help someone.

Rungar

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

Rungar wrote: »

phileunderx2 wrote: »

Weaving with staves is very unreliable. Lighting staves the light attack often turns into an uncontrollable heavy and with the inferno it locks up and doesn't fire or if it does it is a heavy.
It's like the game doesn't understand our imput and thus just does a heavy by default.

sounds like you play with a controller and your light/heavy attack is on the trigger. Change it to another button. The triggers are terrible for this on the xbox/pc controllers.

WHAT. This explains so much... I use the RT and have those issues, but only with the magblade; my stamblade is fine.

I have a Razer Wolverine controller, so it has paddles on the bottom and two extra triggers. Is there a particular button that you'd recommend mapping it to? My LB/RB/X/Y/B are used for skills and the setup allows me to LA weave most effectively, so I'd rather not change one of those buttons to my LA button. Maybe one of the paddles?

Re. LA weaving... IDK how much practice the people criticizing LA weaving have done, but I am the so-called "average player"- just not super good at the game at a global level. BUT I'm pretty good with LA weaving. I didn't get there magically by having some mystical and innate skill specific to LA weaving. No... I've spent *hours* in front of a test dummy practicing. I've worked on LA weaving each skill individually, then LA weaving when transitioning from one skill to another. And weaving as it relates to bar swapping. Learning to bar swap-cancel certain abilities. Then taking all of that into actual combat and completely failing at it, but getting back to the dummy. The parse -> actually playing -> parse -> etc system works quite well for me; it becomes muscle memory fairly quickly. And it doesn't have to be super fast for someone to do well.

This likely came off rather sanctimoniously but that was not my intent. The key is that getting LA weaving down requires a fair bit of practice and "training" on a test dummy or the like. But when you DO get it down, man... it's a lot of fun.

i get it. i know why people like it. I dont like it myself for a number of reasons. Ive never used that controller but i imagine anything is better than the trigger. i put it on the top bumper when i was playing around with it.

carlos424

squinceybones wrote: »

If I light attack, use my liquid lightning, light attack, use wall of elements, barswap, cast curse, light attack, cast crystal frags, light attack, cast elemental weapon. At which point am I "animation cancelling"? The ability doesn't go off until the light attack finishes and I can't light attack again until the ability finishes and the global cooldown of however long expires.

If you cast blockade and immediately barswap you will cancel the entire blockade animation. Also, when casting a skill immediately after light attacking, you will cancel most of the light attack animation.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Soul19reaper wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

This is not directed at OP, but threads like this remind me why we are doomed as a species. People can't do something, and they blame everything but themselves. News flash, people that pull 50k on dummies practice, practice, and practice some more.

KBKB wrote: »

Mate, I'm going to let you in a secret here that people are too fan boi to admit.

PvE in this game is beyond awful, at a time it was just dominated by stupid RnG AoE and one shots required more luck than evasion to survive a fight, regardless of that being the past and they've moved in a better direction for design if you dont have a good ping your DPS will dramatically suffer why have the animation in the fist place if we are meant to clip through them. So why over here in AU where i have 380 ping regularly unless I use Mudfish (another story) should I suffer?

The whole design is incredibly flawed and leaves your toon looking like its a savage. For Sorc I don't even know what the rotation is anymore used to be

WoE>LA>Liquid lightening>LA>Force pulse>LA>Force pulse>LA repeat will hitting your shard procs in between that is so simple, so boring , and so stupid Im taping my mouse between every skill the WoW auto attack skill to name just one is far superior.

So here I am looking my toon has epilepsy and is having a standing fit the way its flailing around and all Im doing it using is using like 3 abilities in the burn phase of a boss feels stupid because of all the performance issues with the game im meant to continue snipping an ability with .2/.3 second margin for error on my ping its not just boring its inefficient I'll ask the question again why have animations if we just snip them off?

In you scenario I can only think of CP allocation or something because we all seem to get stuck on an ability and miss the clip at times DUE TO ITS TERRIBLE DESIGN Or maybe clipping into inefficient spells/skills? I'm not sure.

Rest assured its not just you, I got so annoyed with it I have not PvE'd anything past a normal dungeon in about 3 years I have no idea how to DPS on any toons anymore the thought of pulling 57k DPS on a NB makes me think trash pull because I can't conceive it possible nor on my sorc warden DK or especially templar? what do they even use for damage from class skills short of PoL anymore jabs would be awful single target I thought.

So now I only PvP which comes with issues but I dont have to deliver 1479 light attacks with perfect timing on a flawed premise and game for it.

Honestly, sounds like you need to find a new game. ESO wanted to distinguish themselves from other MMOs with a dynamic combat system. Unfortunately for many, that is going to require practice and a certain skill threshold to play effectively. Playing ESO is more demanding than playing WOW. Yes it is worse with ping, and certain parts of the world are going to have a harder time with this, but for example, I know several aussie players that have absolutely no issue pulling high DPS even though their ping is pretty lousy most of the time.

There are also several parts of the comment that frankly show a pretty poor understanding of how combat and DPS rotations actually function in this game.

To the OP, my advice is to keep at it. There are definitely little things you can spot check in your rotation. The best of the best will have a LA/sec ratio of .93 or so, but you dont need that to pull 50k. Mine is typically around .85-.9 and i can still break it solo. It did not get there overnight. It took hours and hours (and then some more hours) of beating on a dummy. Admittedly that is not for everyone, and I totally get that. On a nightblade, you can also look at how many seconds on average are passing between your spectral bow procs. If its more than about 7 seconds, again, you have rotation issues.

Also, as others have said, 50k ST DPS is not necessary for anything unless you are pushing score. Reasonable minds can disagree about what a realistic floor is, yes VMOL can be cleared with 25K DPS if you are perfect with mechanics. When we first started clearing VMOLHM back in the day we werent much above that. That said, if you cant pull 25k in the current meta (DPS is WAY up since then), I struggle to believe you will be able to play the mechanics as well as needed.

If high damage is your goal, stameblade might seem like a great class for it (it is top DPS afterall), but its also the most difficult class to play. I would suggest looking at a magplar or mag sorc in the current meta. Both are potentially 50k+ ST DPS, but the rotation is significantly easier on the fingers. If you struggle to weave, NB is absolutely the worst class to play as their class defining skill is designed around it.

Excuse my good sir what you say dynamic combat is actually a bug which they FAILED to fix and one of the reasons for power creep!

Keep spouting that tired mantra if you want, but its not exactly true. Animation canceling is also endorsed by the game developers and weaving is even mentioned in the skill adviser. It is true that when they first designed a priority system in this game for things like light attacks, heavy attacks, skills, bash, roll, etc, that there where absolutely some unintended results. But now we are going back to the beta days. Complaining about it 5 years later just makes you sound ridiculous.

They also realized that if you want to be able to react dynamically in combat, there needed to be some sort of skill/ability priority, which has certainly been tweaked over the years. This was done in the first place to ensure dynamic combat. In other words certain parts of animation canceling where intended, and other parts perhaps weren't. In a game like this, you cant predict the consequences of every decision, and just because something wasnt intented, doesnt on its face make it a bad thing. Calling it a bug is simply the wrong term. They designed one of the most complex combat systems of any MMO to date, realized there were some unintentional consequences out of the gate, and have molded them into the system we have today because the realized that they were necessary for fluid and dynamic combat. If you dont like it, you dont like ESO combat, which is perfectly okay. Just makes me wonder why you would bother to play it.

Could you imagine how bad combat would be if you couldnt, for example, block a heavy attack that was about to hit you because you were locked into an animation? Or how boring DPS would be if you just pressed 1,2,3,4,5 in order? It would be absolutely terrible.

alexj4596b14_ESO

Yah.

BuddyAces

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Soul19reaper wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

This is not directed at OP, but threads like this remind me why we are doomed as a species. People can't do something, and they blame everything but themselves. News flash, people that pull 50k on dummies practice, practice, and practice some more.

KBKB wrote: »

Mate, I'm going to let you in a secret here that people are too fan boi to admit.

PvE in this game is beyond awful, at a time it was just dominated by stupid RnG AoE and one shots required more luck than evasion to survive a fight, regardless of that being the past and they've moved in a better direction for design if you dont have a good ping your DPS will dramatically suffer why have the animation in the fist place if we are meant to clip through them. So why over here in AU where i have 380 ping regularly unless I use Mudfish (another story) should I suffer?

The whole design is incredibly flawed and leaves your toon looking like its a savage. For Sorc I don't even know what the rotation is anymore used to be

WoE>LA>Liquid lightening>LA>Force pulse>LA>Force pulse>LA repeat will hitting your shard procs in between that is so simple, so boring , and so stupid Im taping my mouse between every skill the WoW auto attack skill to name just one is far superior.

So here I am looking my toon has epilepsy and is having a standing fit the way its flailing around and all Im doing it using is using like 3 abilities in the burn phase of a boss feels stupid because of all the performance issues with the game im meant to continue snipping an ability with .2/.3 second margin for error on my ping its not just boring its inefficient I'll ask the question again why have animations if we just snip them off?

In you scenario I can only think of CP allocation or something because we all seem to get stuck on an ability and miss the clip at times DUE TO ITS TERRIBLE DESIGN Or maybe clipping into inefficient spells/skills? I'm not sure.

Rest assured its not just you, I got so annoyed with it I have not PvE'd anything past a normal dungeon in about 3 years I have no idea how to DPS on any toons anymore the thought of pulling 57k DPS on a NB makes me think trash pull because I can't conceive it possible nor on my sorc warden DK or especially templar? what do they even use for damage from class skills short of PoL anymore jabs would be awful single target I thought.

So now I only PvP which comes with issues but I dont have to deliver 1479 light attacks with perfect timing on a flawed premise and game for it.

Honestly, sounds like you need to find a new game. ESO wanted to distinguish themselves from other MMOs with a dynamic combat system. Unfortunately for many, that is going to require practice and a certain skill threshold to play effectively. Playing ESO is more demanding than playing WOW. Yes it is worse with ping, and certain parts of the world are going to have a harder time with this, but for example, I know several aussie players that have absolutely no issue pulling high DPS even though their ping is pretty lousy most of the time.

There are also several parts of the comment that frankly show a pretty poor understanding of how combat and DPS rotations actually function in this game.

To the OP, my advice is to keep at it. There are definitely little things you can spot check in your rotation. The best of the best will have a LA/sec ratio of .93 or so, but you dont need that to pull 50k. Mine is typically around .85-.9 and i can still break it solo. It did not get there overnight. It took hours and hours (and then some more hours) of beating on a dummy. Admittedly that is not for everyone, and I totally get that. On a nightblade, you can also look at how many seconds on average are passing between your spectral bow procs. If its more than about 7 seconds, again, you have rotation issues.

Also, as others have said, 50k ST DPS is not necessary for anything unless you are pushing score. Reasonable minds can disagree about what a realistic floor is, yes VMOL can be cleared with 25K DPS if you are perfect with mechanics. When we first started clearing VMOLHM back in the day we werent much above that. That said, if you cant pull 25k in the current meta (DPS is WAY up since then), I struggle to believe you will be able to play the mechanics as well as needed.

If high damage is your goal, stameblade might seem like a great class for it (it is top DPS afterall), but its also the most difficult class to play. I would suggest looking at a magplar or mag sorc in the current meta. Both are potentially 50k+ ST DPS, but the rotation is significantly easier on the fingers. If you struggle to weave, NB is absolutely the worst class to play as their class defining skill is designed around it.

Excuse my good sir what you say dynamic combat is actually a bug which they FAILED to fix and one of the reasons for power creep!

Keep spouting that tired mantra if you want, but its not exactly true. Animation canceling is also endorsed by the game developers and weaving is even mentioned in the skill adviser. It is true that when they first designed a priority system in this game for things like light attacks, heavy attacks, skills, bash, roll, etc, that there where absolutely some unintended results. But now we are going back to the beta days. Complaining about it 5 years later just makes you sound ridiculous.

They also realized that if you want to be able to react dynamically in combat, there needed to be some sort of skill/ability priority, which has certainly been tweaked over the years. This was done in the first place to ensure dynamic combat. In other words certain parts of animation canceling where intended, and other parts perhaps weren't. In a game like this, you cant predict the consequences of every decision, and just because something wasnt intented, doesnt on its face make it a bad thing. Calling it a bug is simply the wrong term. They designed one of the most complex combat systems of any MMO to date, realized there were some unintentional consequences out of the gate, and have molded them into the system we have today because the realized that they were necessary for fluid and dynamic combat. If you dont like it, you dont like ESO combat, which is perfectly okay. Just makes me wonder why you would bother to play it.

Could you imagine how bad combat would be if you couldnt, for example, block a heavy attack that was about to hit you because you were locked into an animation? Or how boring DPS would be if you just pressed 1,2,3,4,5 in order? It would be absolutely terrible.

Marry me. My wife will understand.

Katahdin

Many of my light attacks do not fire .

I'm on 100MB internet
pings are usually around 100 or less

non potato machine
3.5 ghz i7 6 core cpu
Asus x99 motherboard
16 gz corsair vengeance ram
8 gb video card

I get microfreeze often, the game lags and sometimes light attacks do not go off
It absolutely kills my dps
Its very frustrating

p00tx

Katahdin wrote: »

Many of my light attacks do not fire .

I'm on 100MB internet
pings are usually around 100 or less

non potato machine
3.5 ghz i7 6 core cpu
Asus x99 motherboard
16 gz corsair vengeance ram
8 gb video card

I get microfreeze often, the game lags and sometimes light attacks do not go off
It absolutely kills my dps
Its very frustrating

I'm on console, which I'm sure you've heard about with regards to our horrific game performance. It really is incredibly frustrating, but not impossible. Watch your speed. I get weird freeze-glitches when I try to cancel too quickly.

Yvarhna

I play with a ping ranging from 290 - 360ms (sometimes more) and can never seem to get past 35K dps. It's not that I can't weave, because I can. It's just that LA attacks don't always go off. I tend to medium attack more now as that seems to work better with the lag.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

BuddyAces wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Soul19reaper wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

This is not directed at OP, but threads like this remind me why we are doomed as a species. People can't do something, and they blame everything but themselves. News flash, people that pull 50k on dummies practice, practice, and practice some more.

KBKB wrote: »

Mate, I'm going to let you in a secret here that people are too fan boi to admit.

PvE in this game is beyond awful, at a time it was just dominated by stupid RnG AoE and one shots required more luck than evasion to survive a fight, regardless of that being the past and they've moved in a better direction for design if you dont have a good ping your DPS will dramatically suffer why have the animation in the fist place if we are meant to clip through them. So why over here in AU where i have 380 ping regularly unless I use Mudfish (another story) should I suffer?

The whole design is incredibly flawed and leaves your toon looking like its a savage. For Sorc I don't even know what the rotation is anymore used to be

WoE>LA>Liquid lightening>LA>Force pulse>LA>Force pulse>LA repeat will hitting your shard procs in between that is so simple, so boring , and so stupid Im taping my mouse between every skill the WoW auto attack skill to name just one is far superior.

So here I am looking my toon has epilepsy and is having a standing fit the way its flailing around and all Im doing it using is using like 3 abilities in the burn phase of a boss feels stupid because of all the performance issues with the game im meant to continue snipping an ability with .2/.3 second margin for error on my ping its not just boring its inefficient I'll ask the question again why have animations if we just snip them off?

In you scenario I can only think of CP allocation or something because we all seem to get stuck on an ability and miss the clip at times DUE TO ITS TERRIBLE DESIGN Or maybe clipping into inefficient spells/skills? I'm not sure.

Rest assured its not just you, I got so annoyed with it I have not PvE'd anything past a normal dungeon in about 3 years I have no idea how to DPS on any toons anymore the thought of pulling 57k DPS on a NB makes me think trash pull because I can't conceive it possible nor on my sorc warden DK or especially templar? what do they even use for damage from class skills short of PoL anymore jabs would be awful single target I thought.

So now I only PvP which comes with issues but I dont have to deliver 1479 light attacks with perfect timing on a flawed premise and game for it.

Honestly, sounds like you need to find a new game. ESO wanted to distinguish themselves from other MMOs with a dynamic combat system. Unfortunately for many, that is going to require practice and a certain skill threshold to play effectively. Playing ESO is more demanding than playing WOW. Yes it is worse with ping, and certain parts of the world are going to have a harder time with this, but for example, I know several aussie players that have absolutely no issue pulling high DPS even though their ping is pretty lousy most of the time.

There are also several parts of the comment that frankly show a pretty poor understanding of how combat and DPS rotations actually function in this game.

To the OP, my advice is to keep at it. There are definitely little things you can spot check in your rotation. The best of the best will have a LA/sec ratio of .93 or so, but you dont need that to pull 50k. Mine is typically around .85-.9 and i can still break it solo. It did not get there overnight. It took hours and hours (and then some more hours) of beating on a dummy. Admittedly that is not for everyone, and I totally get that. On a nightblade, you can also look at how many seconds on average are passing between your spectral bow procs. If its more than about 7 seconds, again, you have rotation issues.

Also, as others have said, 50k ST DPS is not necessary for anything unless you are pushing score. Reasonable minds can disagree about what a realistic floor is, yes VMOL can be cleared with 25K DPS if you are perfect with mechanics. When we first started clearing VMOLHM back in the day we werent much above that. That said, if you cant pull 25k in the current meta (DPS is WAY up since then), I struggle to believe you will be able to play the mechanics as well as needed.

If high damage is your goal, stameblade might seem like a great class for it (it is top DPS afterall), but its also the most difficult class to play. I would suggest looking at a magplar or mag sorc in the current meta. Both are potentially 50k+ ST DPS, but the rotation is significantly easier on the fingers. If you struggle to weave, NB is absolutely the worst class to play as their class defining skill is designed around it.

Excuse my good sir what you say dynamic combat is actually a bug which they FAILED to fix and one of the reasons for power creep!

Keep spouting that tired mantra if you want, but its not exactly true. Animation canceling is also endorsed by the game developers and weaving is even mentioned in the skill adviser. It is true that when they first designed a priority system in this game for things like light attacks, heavy attacks, skills, bash, roll, etc, that there where absolutely some unintended results. But now we are going back to the beta days. Complaining about it 5 years later just makes you sound ridiculous.

They also realized that if you want to be able to react dynamically in combat, there needed to be some sort of skill/ability priority, which has certainly been tweaked over the years. This was done in the first place to ensure dynamic combat. In other words certain parts of animation canceling where intended, and other parts perhaps weren't. In a game like this, you cant predict the consequences of every decision, and just because something wasnt intented, doesnt on its face make it a bad thing. Calling it a bug is simply the wrong term. They designed one of the most complex combat systems of any MMO to date, realized there were some unintentional consequences out of the gate, and have molded them into the system we have today because the realized that they were necessary for fluid and dynamic combat. If you dont like it, you dont like ESO combat, which is perfectly okay. Just makes me wonder why you would bother to play it.

Could you imagine how bad combat would be if you couldnt, for example, block a heavy attack that was about to hit you because you were locked into an animation? Or how boring DPS would be if you just pressed 1,2,3,4,5 in order? It would be absolutely terrible.

Marry me. My wife will understand.

LMAO. Mine would probably give me away.