Upcoming Racial Balance Changes for Update 21

danielarvynn1

I think the changes to Altmer solidifies them to be the best Magicka race for all classes. Sure we can say that this would fit the lore but in game balance and diversity, this limits the players' choices who wants to min-max everything. Dunmer needs a bit more to compete with Altmer; maybe some sort of magicka recovery or give a higher boost to flame spell damage with a slight increase to Weapon and Spell damage, instead of giving a flat increase to both Weapon and Spell damage. I know that you want the Dunmer to be the hybrid class but as far as I know, it doesn't exist at the moment since there is no support in that.

MaxJrFTW

Jules wrote: »

Raudgrani wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

Raudgrani wrote: »

Nice. So you nerf Nords *even* more, by changing the previous "all-round" 6% into resistance? Dunno about the ulti generation, might just be pessimistic - every 10 seconds? Well that's not much, certainly not in PVP. Sure it might be good for a TANK, but do we really want to push Nords into even more niche tanking role? They were not best at it to start with, so why force them to stay there?

And Redguard... Ffs., you *increase* what made these meta? Why do you want ever stamina DD to be Redguard? Why?

And... You *decreased* Khajiit stamina recovery to literally... NOTHING? Great. You just made Khajiit impossible to use for competitive damage dealing, really - this makes them good for nothing at all, they were already struggling with stamina recovery; 75 recovery? Really? What are they supposed to be used for? Pickpocketing alone? Redguard was already the "button masher handicapped" choice over Khajiit. Khajiit will now have the vigor of a 50 year old obese chain smoker.

With these changes - there's no such thing as a serious end game Khajiit DD anymore. Every stamina damage dealer HAS to be Redguard or gtfo. Khajiit is out, Bosmer is out - only remotely viable alternative is now Orc. I don't know, but I'm getting a weird feeling this some kind of "real world" political correctness thing? Everyone needs to be a Redguard. Seriously, it's ridiculous. Pathetic.

Ok.
Nords are literally OP buffed. 4k resistance of EACH? Almost STATIC minor heroism is a nerf to you - HUH?
Khajiit just got 8% spell and weapon crit - the most desirable stat in a PVE DPS kit and yet you say they have 0 chance of being competitive - HUH?

Hahaha.... Seriously...

You get your "heroism" when you take damage, every ten seconds at that. In PVP, that's pretty much useless, especially since they will now be even worse in PVP. Since they will have less health AND stamina, AND health recovery, nobody will use them anyway - because this was exactly why we used them in PVP, if we did. The old typical PVP Nord with +40k Stamina, high Health/Health recovery is now out the window, so tell me how we are supposed to make use of that "heroism" you speak of. We can't be the Fury/Seventh Legion wearing guys taking all the beating anymore, they will be as weak and useless as us modern day Swedes, a pale shadow of what once was, quite literally.

3960 = 6% reduction, this now doesn't apply to bleed or oblivion damage. So please keep telling me how wonderfully buffed they are.

Literally, maybe you just zerg in PvP. Which is fine, I don’t care. But maybe that’s why you don’t understand my POV.

The reason I say this is because “when you take damage” and “PvP” are nearly interchangeable terms to me, whereas you seem to feel the need to act like they’re so incredibly different. If I’m in PvP, I’m transporting or I’m taking damage, simple as that. People are attacking me and I am attacking people. The only scenario I can imagine someone wouldn’t see it this way is if they were the aggressor, larger group, zerging down a smaller group who literally can’t do damage to them because they’re being trampled.

“When you take damage” should very easily mean it procs on cooldown every time and synergize incredibly well with, oh idk- BATTLE ROAR. Bloodspawn. Decisive. Werewolf hide, fury, seventh legion, take your pick. These changes to nord will literally push it to not only good or great but literally best in slot. Atleast in regards to stam dk, it is going to be very hard to top.

You’re acting like nords damage mitigation got gutted so profoundly that they’re just going to be fairies who float around and die now. Meanwhile, in every discord and competitive PvP environment I look, everyone’s eyeballing that nord as their next ticket to OP ROFLSTOMP.

The damage mit % = resistance pound for pound. So the only thing we’re talking about here is bleeds. The mit % decreased them and new passive will not. But even with that, that current mit % passive is broken and it’s well known and accepted that it stacks improperly at the disadvantage of the nord.

And while bleeds are strong, an 8% damage mitigation to them being lost does not BY ANY MEANS gut this play style. If you think that a nord heavy armor stam dk in blood spawn/fury/7th with all those healing, tanking and constant ulti gain passives is going to be anything short of an absolute juggernaut, maybe refer to the very first sentence of this post as to why.

This post can be summarized with "I lack any sort of common sense, and if you disagree with me you're a zerg". That's really what i got from that.

How can anyone read those changes and think they actually make nords better?

Increases Experience gain in Two Handed Skill Line by 15%, 15 extra minutes on drink buffs → No changes
Stalwart: 6% Max Stamina and 20% Health Recovery → Increases your Max Stamina by 1500. When you take damage, you gain 5 Ultimate. This effect can occur once every 10 seconds.
Resist Frost: 9% Max Health and 2079 Cold Resistance → Increases your Max Health by 1000 and your Cold Resistance by 2310. You are immune to the Chilled status effect.
Rugged: 6% damage reduction → Increases your Physical and Spell Resistance by 3960.

6% stamina to 1500 is a slight nerf.
20% health rec(200 health rec with gold food) -> 5 ult every 10 secs if you take dmg, which isn't always going to be the case.
9% health at 25k = 2250. Now you'll just get 1k.
6% flat dmg reduction to 3960 resistance is a nerf.

Guess im a zerg, and nords are the ticket to OP ROFLSTOMP.

The_Last_Titan

khajiit= comparable (less sustain but get some primary stat back) edit: for somewhere around 1.9k recovery before all the %'s i think
orc= comparable(the damage bonus for ranged, dots makes up for stam loss)
redguard= comparable

my main focus is dark elf as well. The balance between when to be dark elf and when to be high elf was nice, but now in terms of dps it's just worse.

i like the hybrid idea but wonder if something could be put in to reinforce their primary stat for non hybrids, something like get 20% of the lower resource and damage pool added to the primary stat. something that for spell damage users would get 309 sd and an extra 1500 magicka, and stam/wd users would get the opposite. Something that would give a cushion to hybrid builds in a base game mechanic, or just buff the numbers a little...

edit again: i guess that would still put them behind altmer but ahead of most stam classes for dps..

WeyounTM

Damn, this one cannot thank you enough for finally buffing the mag-side of Khajiit. This one can't imagine running around Tamriel without some feline looks and my mag-characters can now finally rejoice in not being a kind of outcast while wielding a staff (especially my main healer).
There have been enough Khajiit characters even in ESO lore that are focused on magic...it made no sense to shoehorn just the stamina side into the racial passives all this past time....

@ZOS_Gilliam : well done and great explanations all across the board

darigaaz87

Can we get a free Name and Race Change Token instead of the Race Change Token? Many of us name their characters based on their race, it wouldn't feel right to change ones race and keep its old name.

Acye

thx for making the choice inbetween redguard and khajiit easier.....sustain nerf was exactly the change khajiit needed !

Galarthor

@ZOS_Gilliam nice changes and they well balanced.

Aliyavana wrote: »

any race any alliance should be free so all factions can have equal access to racials. The speed buff for bosmer being 3 seconds is odd, why not make it 4 seconds like the other ones?

@Aliyavana
Probably so it won't be up 100% of the time for the dodge roll spammers as the penealty-cooldown of dodge rolling is 4 sec.

Thicclady

nud3_voxel wrote: »

Rippo. I'd have to race change 2 mag toons and 2 tanks. That's a wrap.

The whole 1 race change is just a scam. They know full well end game players have 10+ characters they play.

Let me guess, you disappointed at your dark elf lost 2% more fire bonus. Your message looks like you concerned about minmaxing, in that case you should know that dark/high elf are best magdps, and either one of those are will be as good. If you something else, you chose wrong in the first place.

What comes to healers and tanks, race change wont help, passives are nerfed across the board. Try to even understand the game mechanics before commenting.

Feanor

6% flat dmg reduction to 3960 resistance is a nerf.

It’s a sizeable buff against anything else than bleeds, and that’s the point. The previous bonus was multiplicative, not additive, meaning that those 6% are very ineffective after the dust settles and mitigation is fully calculated. Read @paulsimonps excellent thread about damage calculation and mitigation (https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/279426/damage-mitigation-explanation-updated-for-murkmire/) if you don’t believe that.

Edit:

DAMAGE TAKEN=Base Damage*(1-((Resistance/660)/100))*(1-(Mitigation #1)/100)*(1-(Mitigation #2)/100)*(1-(Mitigation #3)/100))*etc etc


The way you would use this formula is to replace the place holders with the percentage numbers that is show in the tool-tips in the game and obviously the resistance should be the number of which ever resistance you want to test with. If you have more than 3 sources than just add more to fill your needs. Now something you might notice is that this way of calculating will result in diminishing returns, what that means is that for each added mitigation source the usefulness of each individual source gets reduced. As an example, having 2 sources that give 50% mitigation will give you a total of 75% mitigation.

And that's exactly what happens with Nord's current Rugged passive.

Qbiken

Feanor wrote: »

6% flat dmg reduction to 3960 resistance is a nerf.

m

It’s a sizeable buff against anything else than bleeds, and that’s the point. The previous bonus was multiplicative, not additive, meaning that those 6% are very ineffective after the dust settles and mitigation is fully calculated. Read @paulsimonps excellent thread about damage calculation and mitigation if you don’t believe that.

The change to nords % based mitigation gives me thoughts about bleed damage adjustments are not too far away

Dashmatt

I like that each race remains unique, and at least in some cases those unique elements were buffed. Passive Ultimate regen is pretty sweet.

Am I wrong, though, or is this going to be result in a stat decrease across the board? Anyone with a high stat build is going to see a decrease for sure. Look at Nords; is it even possible to get your health low enough that a 1k bonus is as good as 9%?

The loss of 20% health recovery is pretty brutal for health recovery builds.

Fallewarrior

Mfw all my magicka based characters are Dunmer

Xsorus

Heh man I lucked out, can’t think of a single class I’ll change races on

Aluneth

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

Raudgrani wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

Raudgrani wrote: »

Nice. So you nerf Nords *even* more, by changing the previous "all-round" 6% into resistance? Dunno about the ulti generation, might just be pessimistic - every 10 seconds? Well that's not much, certainly not in PVP. Sure it might be good for a TANK, but do we really want to push Nords into even more niche tanking role? They were not best at it to start with, so why force them to stay there?

And Redguard... Ffs., you *increase* what made these meta? Why do you want ever stamina DD to be Redguard? Why?

And... You *decreased* Khajiit stamina recovery to literally... NOTHING? Great. You just made Khajiit impossible to use for competitive damage dealing, really - this makes them good for nothing at all, they were already struggling with stamina recovery; 75 recovery? Really? What are they supposed to be used for? Pickpocketing alone? Redguard was already the "button masher handicapped" choice over Khajiit. Khajiit will now have the vigor of a 50 year old obese chain smoker.

With these changes - there's no such thing as a serious end game Khajiit DD anymore. Every stamina damage dealer HAS to be Redguard or gtfo. Khajiit is out, Bosmer is out - only remotely viable alternative is now Orc. I don't know, but I'm getting a weird feeling this some kind of "real world" political correctness thing? Everyone needs to be a Redguard. Seriously, it's ridiculous. Pathetic.

Ok.
Nords are literally OP buffed. 4k resistance of EACH? Almost STATIC minor heroism is a nerf to you - HUH?
Khajiit just got 8% spell and weapon crit - the most desirable stat in a PVE DPS kit and yet you say they have 0 chance of being competitive - HUH?

Hahaha.... Seriously...

You get your "heroism" when you take damage, every ten seconds at that. In PVP, that's pretty much useless, especially since they will now be even worse in PVP. Since they will have less health AND stamina, AND health recovery, nobody will use them anyway - because this was exactly why we used them in PVP, if we did. The old typical PVP Nord with +40k Stamina, high Health/Health recovery is now out the window, so tell me how we are supposed to make use of that "heroism" you speak of. We can't be the Fury/Seventh Legion wearing guys taking all the beating anymore, they will be as weak and useless as us modern day Swedes, a pale shadow of what once was, quite literally.

3960 = 6% reduction, this now doesn't apply to bleed or oblivion damage. So please keep telling me how wonderfully buffed they are.

Literally, maybe you just zerg in PvP. Which is fine, I don’t care. But maybe that’s why you don’t understand my POV.

The reason I say this is because “when you take damage” and “PvP” are nearly interchangeable terms to me, whereas you seem to feel the need to act like they’re so incredibly different. If I’m in PvP, I’m transporting or I’m taking damage, simple as that. People are attacking me and I am attacking people. The only scenario I can imagine someone wouldn’t see it this way is if they were the aggressor, larger group, zerging down a smaller group who literally can’t do damage to them because they’re being trampled.

“When you take damage” should very easily mean it procs on cooldown every time and synergize incredibly well with, oh idk- BATTLE ROAR. Bloodspawn. Decisive. Werewolf hide, fury, seventh legion, take your pick. These changes to nord will literally push it to not only good or great but literally best in slot. Atleast in regards to stam dk, it is going to be very hard to top.

You’re acting like nords damage mitigation got gutted so profoundly that they’re just going to be fairies who float around and die now. Meanwhile, in every discord and competitive PvP environment I look, everyone’s eyeballing that nord as their next ticket to OP ROFLSTOMP.

The damage mit % = resistance pound for pound. So the only thing we’re talking about here is bleeds. The mit % decreased them and new passive will not. But even with that, that current mit % passive is broken and it’s well known and accepted that it stacks improperly at the disadvantage of the nord.

And while bleeds are strong, an 8% damage mitigation to them being lost does not BY ANY MEANS gut this play style. If you think that a nord heavy armor stam dk in blood spawn/fury/7th with all those healing, tanking and constant ulti gain passives is going to be anything short of an absolute juggernaut, maybe refer to the very first sentence of this post as to why.

This post can be summarized with "I lack any sort of common sense, and if you disagree with me you're a zerg". That's really what i got from that.

How can anyone read those changes and think they actually make nords better?

Increases Experience gain in Two Handed Skill Line by 15%, 15 extra minutes on drink buffs → No changes
Stalwart: 6% Max Stamina and 20% Health Recovery → Increases your Max Stamina by 1500. When you take damage, you gain 5 Ultimate. This effect can occur once every 10 seconds.
Resist Frost: 9% Max Health and 2079 Cold Resistance → Increases your Max Health by 1000 and your Cold Resistance by 2310. You are immune to the Chilled status effect.
Rugged: 6% damage reduction → Increases your Physical and Spell Resistance by 3960.

6% stamina to 1500 is a slight nerf.
20% health rec(200 health rec with gold food) -> 5 ult every 10 secs if you take dmg, which isn't always going to be the case.
9% health at 25k = 2250. Now you'll just get 1k.
6% flat dmg reduction to 3960 resistance is a nerf.

Guess im a zerg, and nords are the ticket to OP ROFLSTOMP.

You have to compare it to the other races, as everyone gets a blanket nerf. 6% -> 1500 is major, considering there are classes with 9% that get 1000.

SirCassiusClay

I'm not sure why this turned out the way it did...

These changes don't reflect the first post at all.

Derra

The_Last_Titan wrote: »

my main focus is dark elf as well. The balance between when to be dark elf and when to be high elf was nice, but now in terms of dps it's just worse.

i like the hybrid idea but wonder if something could be put in to reinforce their primary stat for non hybrids, something like get 10% of the lower resource and damage pool added to the primary stat. something that for spell damage users would get 309 sd and an extra 125 magicka, and stam/wd users would get the opposite. Something that would give a cushion to hybrid builds in a base game mechanic, or just buff the numbers a little...

They could just put darkelf at 387 spd/wpd imo.

Also breton cost reduction might be more interesting as sth like 6% total cost reduction instead of 7% magica.

mairwen85

Dashmatt wrote: »

...

Am I wrong, though, or is this going to be result in a stat decrease across the board? Anyone with a high stat build is going to see a decrease for sure. Look at Nords; is it even possible to get your health low enough that a 1k bonus is as good as 9%?

...

Minimal according to this.

VerboseQuips

I noticed that there are two races which have an elemental resistance: against Cold and Fire. No race (yet) has a resistance to the third destro staff element: Lightning. I sense an opportunity for the Maormer (who are famous for their storms) being introduced some day with a similar passive, to fill the gap.

jircris11

Nicalas wrote: »

Nice cash grab. 1 free race change. Which means I have to spend $300 or reroll everything.

At least they have us one. There is ZERO obligation to give them at all. People ate so freaking over entitled. I'm in the SAME boat as you and no i don't have the disposable income but still, least we get ONE race change.

susmitds

Khajiit Robustness needs a buff.

waitwhat wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Only one I'm worried about is the Redguard. Given how hard that race is pushed as "The Choice for StamDPS," buffing Adrenaline Rush feels like a mistake.

A valid concern, but they are taking a huge hit to damage output with the max resource change. For a redguard stamblade, the 10% would equal anywhere from 6-8k stamina. Reducing that to 2k is a big, and deserved, loss.

10% stamina = 6k-8k stamina? Do you have 60k to 80k base stamina? More like from 3k stamina to 2k stamina.

LittlePumpkin030

jircris11 wrote: »

Nicalas wrote: »

Nice cash grab. 1 free race change. Which means I have to spend $300 or reroll everything.

At least they have us one. There is ZERO obligation to give them at all. People ate so freaking over entitled. I'm in the SAME boat as you and no i don't have the disposable income but still, least we get ONE race change.

like i said before, would be cool if you could use one token for every char you have once and it expires like when not used in 2 weeks or a month. just to make sure, if needed use if not you dont have one.

Onebitsoul

I think the Khajiit recovery passive could still use some love. 75 for mag and stam is really just bad.

Xsorus

Jules wrote: »

Raudgrani wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

Raudgrani wrote: »

Nice. So you nerf Nords *even* more, by changing the previous "all-round" 6% into resistance? Dunno about the ulti generation, might just be pessimistic - every 10 seconds? Well that's not much, certainly not in PVP. Sure it might be good for a TANK, but do we really want to push Nords into even more niche tanking role? They were not best at it to start with, so why force them to stay there?

And Redguard... Ffs., you *increase* what made these meta? Why do you want ever stamina DD to be Redguard? Why?

And... You *decreased* Khajiit stamina recovery to literally... NOTHING? Great. You just made Khajiit impossible to use for competitive damage dealing, really - this makes them good for nothing at all, they were already struggling with stamina recovery; 75 recovery? Really? What are they supposed to be used for? Pickpocketing alone? Redguard was already the "button masher handicapped" choice over Khajiit. Khajiit will now have the vigor of a 50 year old obese chain smoker.

With these changes - there's no such thing as a serious end game Khajiit DD anymore. Every stamina damage dealer HAS to be Redguard or gtfo. Khajiit is out, Bosmer is out - only remotely viable alternative is now Orc. I don't know, but I'm getting a weird feeling this some kind of "real world" political correctness thing? Everyone needs to be a Redguard. Seriously, it's ridiculous. Pathetic.

Ok.
Nords are literally OP buffed. 4k resistance of EACH? Almost STATIC minor heroism is a nerf to you - HUH?
Khajiit just got 8% spell and weapon crit - the most desirable stat in a PVE DPS kit and yet you say they have 0 chance of being competitive - HUH?

Hahaha.... Seriously...

You get your "heroism" when you take damage, every ten seconds at that. In PVP, that's pretty much useless, especially since they will now be even worse in PVP. Since they will have less health AND stamina, AND health recovery, nobody will use them anyway - because this was exactly why we used them in PVP, if we did. The old typical PVP Nord with +40k Stamina, high Health/Health recovery is now out the window, so tell me how we are supposed to make use of that "heroism" you speak of. We can't be the Fury/Seventh Legion wearing guys taking all the beating anymore, they will be as weak and useless as us modern day Swedes, a pale shadow of what once was, quite literally.

3960 = 6% reduction, this now doesn't apply to bleed or oblivion damage. So please keep telling me how wonderfully buffed they are.

Literally, maybe you just zerg in PvP. Which is fine, I don’t care. But maybe that’s why you don’t understand my POV.

The reason I say this is because “when you take damage” and “PvP” are nearly interchangeable terms to me, whereas you seem to feel the need to act like they’re so incredibly different. If I’m in PvP, I’m transporting or I’m taking damage, simple as that. People are attacking me and I am attacking people. The only scenario I can imagine someone wouldn’t see it this way is if they were the aggressor, larger group, zerging down a smaller group who literally can’t do damage to them because they’re being trampled.

“When you take damage” should very easily mean it procs on cooldown every time and synergize incredibly well with, oh idk- BATTLE ROAR. Bloodspawn. Decisive. Werewolf hide, fury, seventh legion, take your pick. These changes to nord will literally push it to not only good or great but literally best in slot. Atleast in regards to stam dk, it is going to be very hard to top.

You’re acting like nords damage mitigation got gutted so profoundly that they’re just going to be fairies who float around and die now. Meanwhile, in every discord and competitive PvP environment I look, everyone’s eyeballing that nord as their next ticket to OP ROFLSTOMP.

The damage mit % = resistance pound for pound. So the only thing we’re talking about here is bleeds. The mit % decreased them and new passive will not. But even with that, that current mit % passive is broken and it’s well known and accepted that it stacks improperly at the disadvantage of the nord.

And while bleeds are strong, an 8% damage mitigation to them being lost does not BY ANY MEANS gut this play style. If you think that a nord heavy armor stam dk in blood spawn/fury/7th with all those healing, tanking and constant ulti gain passives is going to be anything short of an absolute juggernaut, maybe refer to the very first sentence of this post as to why.

Ironically when I first started I was a nord stam dk, nord would be very interesting for my dk now..

Cloudless

Me likey. Though I'd get rid of that 100 health recovery on the Khajiit and raise their magicka and stamina recovery a bit (100? 125?).

EC_Rob

I am always open about change, and I love many of the new passives! But, I have at least 12 chars. One race change is not enough, so please give us more.

Sanctuary_Reaper

i have literally just started a dark elf fire mage, guess i will now be deleting this now.

ZeroXFF

High Elf mitigation is tied to an awkward condition. Make it proc the same as the resource regen and last for the length of the cooldown on the resource regen, and we'll have something usable for tanks. As it stands right now, High Elves are only good as mag DDs.

Aluneth

ZeroXFF wrote: »

High Elf mitigation is tied to an awkward condition. Make it proc the same as the resource regen and last for the length of the cooldown on the resource regen, and we'll have something usable for tanks. As it stands right now, High Elves are only good as mag DDs.

They're the BEST at mag DDs. There is no need to give them more buffs, unless you're prepared to take away something from them.

SodanTok

This thread is goldmine of wrong assumotions based on not understanding how the game works, what is useful and what is not or even being incapable of math.

I read tens of post saying khajiit was nerfed when they received only buffs. Sure their sustain is still bad but still, they will do more damage ane have better sustain than on live now. There is no way to spin getting more stamina and stamina recovery on top of getting everything in magicka version as a nerf.

Overall I like these changes. Bosmer got buffed nicely for pvp, but comparing it to other races it is now easily one of worst races for pve. Redguards imo got much more sustain when they should have been untouched at best. Orcs got very good pve buffs to make them good option between khajiit and redguard.

Tasear

Cryptical wrote: »

Excellent communication.

You told us the problem, explained why it is a problem, and shared the direction you want to go to make it not a problem. Then you outlined in detail the specific changes to happen and shared the specific impetus for each.

You gave us players respect by treating us like participating partners in creating the game experience. Though many are immediately focused on the content and have not noticed the tone at all, I do recognize that this post has a gamer-to-gamer tone and I thank you for it.

Gil is amazing