Datamined "Chapter III" - The Elder Scrolls Online: Elsweyr

OtarTheMad

Why do people think this update is lore breaking? Stop thinking that!! Necromancy is a type of magic and is ALREADY in game with Soul Magic skill line. (Ever used soul trap to fill a soul gem? You’re a necromancer. Congrats!) and dragons were never extinct just rare and didn’t even increase their efforts of hiding until Tiber Septim betrays them in a few hundred years.

As for dragon breaks we will have to wait and see but I doubt this update causes one. Even if it did Dragon breaks are still lore friendly and canon.

Inklings

I wrestled with the notion if i should even post this or not. By means i wont divulge i was able to obtain the whole trailer to ESOs 2019 chapter Elsweyr. In it we find out what the tablet unleashes and also why this Khajiit was so scared. For the doom it will bring to Elsweyr will be untold!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owH8Y67nuT4

LittlePinkDot

Callous2208 wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

There goes what was left of lore and logic. Real Dragons in ESO, which never happened and which was confirmed by ZoS to never happen. And undead chilling in all major towns and social hubs.

Glad I'm not the only one that sees this. I mean eso has been playing fast and loose with the lore since inception, but this is truly jumping the shark and disregarding all lore entirely.

When they decided to make eso in the past they kinda shoehorned themselves into this position. I think it must be during a dragon break? But the lore already has any story that was good that you already know the ending of. Its like ZoS couldnt really do anything new and exciting without finding a way around the lore.

exeeter702

grassbie wrote: »

Okay. There are a few points worth considering, especially by those throwing lore arguments around. I will ignore some of the most ludicrous movements I saw among TES fans, especially the ones preaching fluidity of the canon and validating fanfiction, even written by previous designers, as equal to the published games. Consider yourself warned.

(1) It's embarrassing to say it out loud, but: the game is created by its designers and it is their property. It is an individual piece of art that is produced and published for people to consume, experience and analyze it. By default, it is also true for the whole franchise, including TES. No matter how much you like the previous installments or how much you are a fan of the franchise, you get to experience and analyze the game as it was conceived and finished by the designers. The lore is what you have in-game, not what you would like to get. This is the actual lore, and both the player and the future designer has to deal with it.

(2) The "translation error" is a perfectly valid method of retcon. It is not lore-breaking--it is used to throw away any burdening lore without being lore-breaking. What's more, it is also a pretty decent characterization method, especially when used to subvert already established lore. This is even truer in case of a TES-like world, build on a very fundament of different points of view and cultural references. It is a narration until you see it--the fact that it is told this way, not that it happened this way.

(3) The lore of the game is part of its design. Whether it is a single player TES, ESO, Legends, whatever; ideally, it should be consistent thematically and mechanically. Let's be honest, no TES single player game has a great story (yes, I'm aware of some Morrowind fans' siege mentality, but.) Single player TES games are most of the time uninterested in narration and storytelling, as BGS design focuses specifically on providing the worlds, not stories. The most intriguing things happen in-between, they are those plagues and great wars that changes and influences the world around you, the very physical environment. The games themselves are full of fetch quests, NPCs being message boards who will tell you "hi I'm a farmer" instead of being a farmer. What you experience in these games, is the world and its skeletons.

(4) The uniqueness of the world is as much determined by the vision of the creators as it is by the economic factors: there is a reason why in 2002 we got Morrowind and in 2011 we got Skyrim, and it's not the presence/lack of the designers' "heart". Morrowind was one big retcon of the previous games and gave the franchise the recognition it has today. Oblivion was safer thematically and visually, but it was so because the market changed. You couldn't make another Morrowind for next-gen consoles in 2006. Want to hear about long-dead dragons? Alduin was mentioned in but two books prior to Skyrim, and in a very different context. And to sum the major idea of Skyrim up: let's make a game about half-naked Vikings fighting with dragons! Can we do this? Yes, we can! What about the player character? Ooh, let's make them dragonborn, like the emperors of old, but better, the last one with the quest to stop the end of the world! Yes, some things are introduced not because they are needed, but because they are selling points. No, that's not bad. Producing the next ESO chapter is not a charity work for "hardcore lore fans". Hardcore lore fans are not the playerbase of the next ESO expansion, but the playerbase of whatever past title they hold dear. Maybe "Skyrim sells because of dragons" is a bit on a nose statement, but well. People play Skyrim because of dragons.

(5) Every TES game, no matter the platform, was in some part lore breaking. Every game took the established lore and build around it. When you design the story, you start from the idea, like the one for Skyrim above. Then, you check what we already know about that--and then you choose what is the fact you build around, and what you discard. There's one more thing: the lore is burdening. The games lore-heavy are not good games. You can't expect players to know the whole wikipedia on the franchise--on the contrary, you are obligated to create a story that will be self-contained, you have to provide all the details and lore within the story piece you create. No, tossing an uncountable number of lorebooks into the game is not a good game writing. Lorebooks are in the game as environmental pieces, not storytelling pieces. ESO writing better and better translates the lore of the franchise into compelling stories interested in exploring the culture and the people they are about.

Uff!

Now that we got that over with, let's go back to the actual lore as it was established--and as it is subject to ZOS designers' interpretation. It's no secret people want to visit Elsweyr. It's a great unexplored place that ZOS can shape in unexpected ways. So what's the first thing we hear about that place? That there will be... dragons? Absurd! Dragons were mostly dead! And they were from Skyrim, land of snow and half-naked vikings, not from the jungles and deserts of Elsweyr!

But were they? Actually, I think it's a nice subversion of our expectations.

I won't defend the plot before I see it and I don't want to do writers' job for them, but there are ways to show dragons in Elsweyr, even many dragons, without openly contradicting our knowledge of the world. As of now, future eras know nothing about Planemeld, which is an event far more important Tamriel-wise than the dragons in Elsweyr. I guess. We know very little of dragons. What we know is that they are "the immortal children of Akatosh, they are specially attuned to the flow of time" (via USEP: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Dragons) and that they are not really dead until their soul is consumed.

And let's remember this lorebook that first appeared in Skyrim: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:The_Tale_of_Dro'Zira

It is a tale of the Khajiiti people who heard and responded to Alduin's Thu'um and went north to fight by his side

/thread

ThinkerOfThings

Ertosi wrote: »

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

Data mining is pathetic.

People do it for internet points. Crap like this was so much more exciting when you got clues, and people talked about it and rumors would come and go.

it's the same the people that blitz to the end of a game when it releases the whine there is nothing to do. Wait for them to release the information and be excited over it.

I think ZoS should just start naming stuff incorrectly to throw people off.

This is my last hope for Necromancers being introduced as a skill rather than a class. There's no way a magic subschool specialist deserves an entire Class named after it. It's best introduced as a Skill Line. Illusionists, Alterers, and Conjurers would deserve to be added as Classes before Necromancers as those at least represent full schools of magic.

2017 brought us the Housing system
2018 brought us the Outfitting system and Jewelry crafting
2019 so far has no indication of any new game mechanics that all characters can make use of.

A new class doesn't benefit my well-seasoned 15 toons. A boss by a different name is still just a boss, so dragons do nothing for me. As much as I'd to see Elsweyr, a new region isn't enough for me to buy a new Chapter. So far, it all sounds like name-dropping without any real substance. This year is ESO's 5 yr anniversary and they said it was going to be amazing... Well get to see soon if there is any truth to that on the 15th during the sneak peak but so far, I've not seen anything to get me to buy into the hype.


If they really want to Wow me, they need to bring a massive new feature that all classes can benefit from. Spellcrafting is the most asked for and most logical choice. Spellcrafting would include everything people have been asking for. It would include Necromancy as its just a subschool of Conjuration. Best case scenario for everyone would be if they've been secretly working on introducing Spellcrafting and announce it during their reveal on the 15th, then explain that Necromancy will be a part of it as one of the new magical Skill Trees. If a new class were introduced with that, it would be best done as one that gets great synergy with the Conjuration and Necromancy skill trees. Without that, there just wouldn't be enough reason to introduce yet another spell casting class... it would step on sorc's toes far too much making neither class unique.

Honestly, if they are going to Introduce Spell Crafting, they need to get rid of classes altogether. That likely will not happen. I would love to see it, but, I doubt it will happen. That being said, I would be happy with a skill dye system, just so my skills from different trees looked the same.

ThinkerOfThings

lordrichter wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Revokus wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Revokus wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Honestly, in their Creative Director's Letter it sounded like 2019 is going to be a very special year for ESO. Not just because of the 5 year anniversary, it sounded like they planned quite some exciting stuff. That's at least the vibes I got from that letter.

They won't achieve this with another Chapter in the style of Morrowind or Summerset. A new class is great, Elsweyr sounds promising and the dragon involvement sounds cool. But if it's just the same copy and paste scheme of their usual zones with new stories and landscapes it won't work. ZOS has to step up their game when it comes to features and development and that's what I expect. If 2019 will be identical to 2018 it will be very disappointing... and lame.

I think the season-long story arc revolving around dragons is what they were refering to. I wouldn't get my hopes up about anything else.
Unless Elsweyr is absolutely massive - and I expect many impassible areas again - it will be pretty much like Summerset. It's also telling that they are listing "dragons" as a feature, when Morrowind at least had battlegrounds to go with the new class. For that reason I also assume Elsweyr will be at Summerset's price point instead of Morrowind's.

TBH, right now I'm much more curious about the Q1 update, which we know absolutely nothing about and should be available much sooner.

I think the Q1 update is the chapter that’s why it’s late.

It's the second week of January. This hardly constitutes as "late"

Well it’s late cause Rob said a couple of weeks for the pts. Last year it dropped first week of january.

We don’t even know the name of the update yet and we knew what the update would be called last year in december so.. and there is a big announcement on the 15th. And Alcast seems to think they will start with the chapter this year too in his most recent video.

Schedules vary from year to year. If they put it on PTS this month, it is not "late".

Last year Summerset was announced end of March, 2.5 months later than Elsweyr's announcement. Morrowind was announced January 31st.

So something seems to be a bit off or at least different. Why is there such a need to "hurry" the announcement this time?

Hard to say, for sure. This might be the year they scale back ESO to do only two DLC.

If they scaled back and released less content but the quality of that content was more involved and mysterious I would be totally for that. I know quality over quantity isn't as big a deal as it used to be, but it would be nice. ZOS don't want the same troubles Blizz is having right now.

Elsonso

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

There goes what was left of lore and logic. Real Dragons in ESO, which never happened and which was confirmed by ZoS to never happen. And undead chilling in all major towns and social hubs.

Glad I'm not the only one that sees this. I mean eso has been playing fast and loose with the lore since inception, but this is truly jumping the shark and disregarding all lore entirely.

When they decided to make eso in the past they kinda shoehorned themselves into this position. I think it must be during a dragon break? But the lore already has any story that was good that you already know the ending of. Its like ZoS couldnt really do anything new and exciting without finding a way around the lore.

Well, TES 5 Skyrim says that a few dragons were alive and awake during the time of ESO, so it is hardly lore breaking to have them in ESO. I know what people say, but the Lore does not support the total absence of dragons across all of Tamriel during ESO. We already know that Nafaalilargus is involved with the establishment of the Septim empire. This dragon has to be somewhere, and we know it is an active, busy dragon. My guess is that we get to meet this dragon during the Season of the Dragon.

We may meet other dragons, as well, since the Atlas of Dragons, appearing in Skyrim but pre-dating ESO, suggests that multiple dragons are still out there. We don't know a lot about Season of the Dragon, but we know that ZOS is well aware of the fact that dragons were not so numerous as to be blotting out the sun during the time of ESO. I expect that the story and happenings will align with that, but we won't know until we are further into this.

We already know that the events of ESO are canon. I fully expect that TES 6 will include lore books that describe, in brief, the things that happened in ESO. Large and small.

ThinkerOfThings wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Hard to say, for sure. This might be the year they scale back ESO to do only two DLC.

If they scaled back and released less content but the quality of that content was more involved and mysterious I would be totally for that. I know quality over quantity isn't as big a deal as it used to be, but it would be nice. ZOS don't want the same troubles Blizz is having right now.

They are not going to do that this year. Even when I said it above, I did not believe it. It was just an idle speculation.

Ermiq

@OtarTheMad

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Why do people think this update is lore breaking? Stop thinking that!! Necromancy is a type of magic and is ALEADY in game with Soul Magic skill line. (Ever used soul trap to fill a soul gem? You’re a necromancer. Congrats!) and dragons were never extinct just rare and didn’t even increase their efforts of hiding until Tiber Septim betrays them in a few hundred years.

The fact that we were forced to use Soul Magic due to gameplay mechanics (resurection) is also lore-breaking, you know? And the fact that the game 'ALEADY' has lore-breaking stuff, doesn't mean that devs are free to introduce more of lore-breaking stuff into the game. If it was working like that, ZOS would be allowed to make a playable dragons race ('cause they're already in the lore and in the game, right?).

Odnoc

Eremith wrote: »

@OtarTheMad

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Why do people think this update is lore breaking? Stop thinking that!! Necromancy is a type of magic and is ALEADY in game with Soul Magic skill line. (Ever used soul trap to fill a soul gem? You’re a necromancer. Congrats!) and dragons were never extinct just rare and didn’t even increase their efforts of hiding until Tiber Septim betrays them in a few hundred years.

The fact that we were forced to use Soul Magic due to gameplay mechanics (resurection) is also lore-breaking, you know? And the fact that the game 'ALEADY' has lore-breaking stuff, doesn't mean that devs are free to introduce more of lore-breaking stuff into the game. If it was working like that, ZOS would be allowed to make a playable dragons race ('cause they're already in the lore and in the game, right?).

They could, but probably wont. They "could" make anything in lore a playable race and not be lore breaking really, well, maybe except Dwemer.

Even in real life, there are still unknown tribes in the Amazon, who is to say there isn't some unknown place in the Elder Scrolls universe where a new "tribe" emerges from...

OtarTheMad

Eremith wrote: »

@OtarTheMad

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Why do people think this update is lore breaking? Stop thinking that!! Necromancy is a type of magic and is ALEADY in game with Soul Magic skill line. (Ever used soul trap to fill a soul gem? You’re a necromancer. Congrats!) and dragons were never extinct just rare and didn’t even increase their efforts of hiding until Tiber Septim betrays them in a few hundred years.

The fact that we were forced to use Soul Magic due to gameplay mechanics (resurection) is also lore-breaking, you know? And the fact that the game 'ALEADY' has lore-breaking stuff, doesn't mean that devs are free to introduce more of lore-breaking stuff into the game. If it was working like that, ZOS would be allowed to make a playable dragons race ('cause they're already in the lore and in the game, right?).

How is the Soul Magic lore-breaking? At this point I think you guys are just throwing the term around and playing some odd forum game. Soul trap and soul magic are not lore breaking, just a style of magic.

You guys are starting to reach with your dislike of dragons and necromancy being in this update. Just say you don’t like them because no matter what you say lore is on ESO’ side this time.

FLuFFyxMuFFiN

ThinkerOfThings wrote: »

Ertosi wrote: »

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

Data mining is pathetic.

People do it for internet points. Crap like this was so much more exciting when you got clues, and people talked about it and rumors would come and go.

it's the same the people that blitz to the end of a game when it releases the whine there is nothing to do. Wait for them to release the information and be excited over it.

I think ZoS should just start naming stuff incorrectly to throw people off.

This is my last hope for Necromancers being introduced as a skill rather than a class. There's no way a magic subschool specialist deserves an entire Class named after it. It's best introduced as a Skill Line. Illusionists, Alterers, and Conjurers would deserve to be added as Classes before Necromancers as those at least represent full schools of magic.

2017 brought us the Housing system
2018 brought us the Outfitting system and Jewelry crafting
2019 so far has no indication of any new game mechanics that all characters can make use of.

A new class doesn't benefit my well-seasoned 15 toons. A boss by a different name is still just a boss, so dragons do nothing for me. As much as I'd to see Elsweyr, a new region isn't enough for me to buy a new Chapter. So far, it all sounds like name-dropping without any real substance. This year is ESO's 5 yr anniversary and they said it was going to be amazing... Well get to see soon if there is any truth to that on the 15th during the sneak peak but so far, I've not seen anything to get me to buy into the hype.


If they really want to Wow me, they need to bring a massive new feature that all classes can benefit from. Spellcrafting is the most asked for and most logical choice. Spellcrafting would include everything people have been asking for. It would include Necromancy as its just a subschool of Conjuration. Best case scenario for everyone would be if they've been secretly working on introducing Spellcrafting and announce it during their reveal on the 15th, then explain that Necromancy will be a part of it as one of the new magical Skill Trees. If a new class were introduced with that, it would be best done as one that gets great synergy with the Conjuration and Necromancy skill trees. Without that, there just wouldn't be enough reason to introduce yet another spell casting class... it would step on sorc's toes far too much making neither class unique.

Honestly, if they are going to Introduce Spell Crafting, they need to get rid of classes altogether. That likely will not happen. I would love to see it, but, I doubt it will happen. That being said, I would be happy with a skill dye system, just so my skills from different trees looked the same.

They could make it work. You could pick a class so that you start with those skill lines and have to go out and learn the other classes skills as well as new ones similar to how motifs work. So I am still a dragonknight but I have learned to use some of the sorcerer and nightblade skills.

Ermiq

@Odnoc

Eremith wrote: »

while playable Necromancers are actually lore-friendly in terms of overall TES lore, in ESO particularly they just couldn't exist. You know, like 90% of the ESO stories/quests are based on fighting against Wormcult and other necromancers, and we know that many Tamriel people (especially Redguards, non-Telvanni Dunmers, Mages Guild and Psijics') most likely wouldn't make a deal with necromancers. If it were a good singleplayer game, there would be unique dialogues, reactions, entire quest lines would be changed or even unavailable if you play as a Necromancer. But I know ZOS, I know how exactly they do implement new content into the game. Players using necromancy just going to be completely ignored by NPCs, Vanus Galerion will let them to become a Mages Guild members, and so on.
I would deal with Necromancer class in ESO if it were implemented correctly, with some new unique mechanics, so they could become a rightfull part of the game's world, you know. But they won't, I'm sure. As I see it, the only way to accept a Necromancer player in ESO for me is just to say "yeah, whatever, he's not a necro, I didn't see that dead body he just had raised up from that grave".

Speaking about dragons... It's ok if it will be only a couple of them, they might be hiding somewhere in the Nirn during the 2nd era, there's no inconsistencies lore-wise.

@OtarTheMad
I'm not 'just don't like them'. If you're any interested in my opinion you could take a look at my comments history in my profile. I've wrote a lot about necromancer class already, and I don't want to repeat it all again to everyone who don't see the reasons why necromancer player shouldn't be exist in ESO.

OtarTheMad

Eremith wrote: »

@Odnoc

Eremith wrote: »

while playable Necromancers are actually lore-friendly in terms of overall TES lore, in ESO particularly they just couldn't exist. You know, like 90% of the ESO stories/quests are based on fighting against Wormcult and other necromancers, and we know that many Tamriel people (especially Redguards, non-Telvanni Dunmers, Mages Guild and Psijics') most likely wouldn't make a deal with necromancers. If it were a good singleplayer game, there would be unique dialogues, reactions, entire quest lines would be changed or even unavailable if you play as a Necromancer. But I know ZOS, I know how exactly they do implement new content into the game. Players using necromancy just going to be completely ignored by NPCs, Vanus Galerion will let them to become a Mages Guild members, and so on.
I would deal with Necromancer class in ESO if it were implemented correctly, with some new unique mechanics, so they could become a rightfull part of the game's world, you know. But they won't, I'm sure. As I see it, the only way to accept a Necromancer player in ESO for me is just to say "yeah, whatever, he's not a necro, I didn't see that dead body he just had raised up from that grave".

Speaking about dragons... It's ok if it will be only a couple of them, they might be hiding somewhere in the Nirn during the 2nd era, there's no inconsistencies lore-wise.

@OtarTheMad
I'm not 'just don't like them'. If you're any interested in my opinion you could take a look at my comments history in my profile. I've wrote a lot about necromancer class already, and I don't want to repeat it all again to everyone who don't see the reasons why necromancer player shouldn't be exist in ESO.

I am not going to scroll thru your comment history lol but I will use what you quoted as a guide. You're judging something before we even understand it honestly. Honestly we can be necromancers and still not agree with what is happening with Mannimarco and Molag Bal. As for seeing dead bodies in town, yes, that's a little odd but any odder than a Sorc summoning daedra in a time when a Daedric Prince is trying to destroy Nirn? Or a NB running around town and murdering all the people? We can be The Vestige and be evil.

rexagamemnon

joaaocaampos wrote: »

NEW CLASS? NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!

ZOS, CHANGE IT! NEW SKILL LINE, PLEASE!

CLASS IS SO OUTDATED!

“Ignore his words keepers!”

Ermiq

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Eremith wrote: »

@Odnoc

Eremith wrote: »

while playable Necromancers are actually lore-friendly in terms of overall TES lore, in ESO particularly they just couldn't exist. You know, like 90% of the ESO stories/quests are based on fighting against Wormcult and other necromancers, and we know that many Tamriel people (especially Redguards, non-Telvanni Dunmers, Mages Guild and Psijics') most likely wouldn't make a deal with necromancers. If it were a good singleplayer game, there would be unique dialogues, reactions, entire quest lines would be changed or even unavailable if you play as a Necromancer. But I know ZOS, I know how exactly they do implement new content into the game. Players using necromancy just going to be completely ignored by NPCs, Vanus Galerion will let them to become a Mages Guild members, and so on.
I would deal with Necromancer class in ESO if it were implemented correctly, with some new unique mechanics, so they could become a rightfull part of the game's world, you know. But they won't, I'm sure. As I see it, the only way to accept a Necromancer player in ESO for me is just to say "yeah, whatever, he's not a necro, I didn't see that dead body he just had raised up from that grave".

Speaking about dragons... It's ok if it will be only a couple of them, they might be hiding somewhere in the Nirn during the 2nd era, there's no inconsistencies lore-wise.

@OtarTheMad
I'm not 'just don't like them'. If you're any interested in my opinion you could take a look at my comments history in my profile. I've wrote a lot about necromancer class already, and I don't want to repeat it all again to everyone who don't see the reasons why necromancer player shouldn't be exist in ESO.

I am not going to scroll thru your comment history lol but I will use what you quoted as a guide. You're judging something before we even understand it honestly. Honestly we can be necromancers and still not agree with what is happening with Mannimarco and Molag Bal. As for seeing dead bodies in town, yes, that's a little odd but any odder than a Sorc summoning daedra in a time when a Daedric Prince is trying to destroy Nirn? Or a NB running around town and murdering all the people? We can be The Vestige and be evil.

What's wrong with daedra summoning? See, daedra are not considered to be evil nor good in TES mostly. Moreover, these so-called lesser daedra such as Clanfeers, Twilights and Scumps are classified as nothing more than just some kind of animals, and there's nothing wrong with a master sorcerer being able to summon and control them. Ask Divayth Fyr.
Also, from what I know, Conjuring school (except its Necromancy branch) has never been forbidden in Tamriel.

NBs are different. They are breaking the game for me. And I don't understand why do people justify the necromancer class by mentioning such things like NBs. Is it okay that if we have one immersive breaking feature than it's okay to add new ones to the game?

See, I totally understand why people want necromancers to be playable. As I said, I would completely agree with that if ZOS could implement necromancer class properly. I just don't want the game to become some kind of amusement theme park where necromancer and redguard are making selfie picture in front of Arkay's statue while NB's killing citizens behind them. But, sadly, that's what ZOS actually want the game to become in the end. Now I see it and now ESO is most likely dead game for me.
For me personnaly, ESO with necromancer class is not the TES game anymore, but just TES inspired game, fan-feak, not even a spin-off.

Davor

Why are people harping on Necromancy being banned? I though necromancy was banned in Morrowind times, but before that it was practicing and nobody was getting in trouble.

So either I am wrong or what is the issue. Where does it say necromancy was banned in ESO time line?

Kingdaboss123

Davor wrote: »

Why are people harping on Necromancy being banned? I though necromancy was banned in Morrowind times, but before that it was practicing and nobody was getting in trouble.

So either I am wrong or what is the issue. Where does it say necromancy was banned in ESO time line?

Exactly it hasn't been stated necromancy is banned.

Kingdaboss123

Just fake lore nerds spilling headcanon.

Ertosi

.

Kingdaboss123 wrote: »

Davor wrote: »

Why are people harping on Necromancy being banned? I though necromancy was banned in Morrowind times, but before that it was practicing and nobody was getting in trouble.

So either I am wrong or what is the issue. Where does it say necromancy was banned in ESO time line?

Exactly it hasn't been stated necromancy is banned.

If you believe that, then you've ignored much of the main story of ESO. Mage's Guild and Psijics both openly disdain and outcast necromancers.

Feel free to read up on the Lore if you wish to educate yourself to avoid being guilty of your own accusations of spilling headcanon.
Lore: Necromancy
It includes a long list of references to the lore of TES.

Davor

Ertosi wrote: »

.

Kingdaboss123 wrote: »

Davor wrote: »

Why are people harping on Necromancy being banned? I though necromancy was banned in Morrowind times, but before that it was practicing and nobody was getting in trouble.

So either I am wrong or what is the issue. Where does it say necromancy was banned in ESO time line?

Exactly it hasn't been stated necromancy is banned.

If you believe that, then you've ignored much of the main story of ESO. Mage's Guild and Psijics both openly disdain and outcast necromancers.

Feel free to read up on the Lore if you wish to educate yourself to avoid being guilty of your own accusations of spilling headcanon.
Lore: Necromancy
It includes a long list of references to the lore of TES.

LMFAO. So you just proved almost EVERYONE is doing Necromancy. Read first line, and yup anyone who touches the soul spell is a necromancer.

So your point being?

*edit*

Also proves why Elswyre would be the PERFECT place to bring in necromancy into ESO.

THANK YOU so much for proving why necromancy belongs in ESO.

Kingdaboss123

Ertosi wrote: »

.

Kingdaboss123 wrote: »

Davor wrote: »

Why are people harping on Necromancy being banned? I though necromancy was banned in Morrowind times, but before that it was practicing and nobody was getting in trouble.

So either I am wrong or what is the issue. Where does it say necromancy was banned in ESO time line?

Exactly it hasn't been stated necromancy is banned.

If you believe that, then you've ignored much of the main story of ESO. Mage's Guild and Psijics both openly disdain and outcast necromancers.

Feel free to read up on the Lore if you wish to educate yourself to avoid being guilty of your own accusations of spilling headcanon.
Lore: Necromancy
It includes a long list of references to the lore of TES.

I just read in the very article you sent it said necromancy was practice and tolerated nowhere did it say it's banned.

Davor

Kingdaboss123 wrote: »

Ertosi wrote: »

.

Kingdaboss123 wrote: »

Davor wrote: »

Why are people harping on Necromancy being banned? I though necromancy was banned in Morrowind times, but before that it was practicing and nobody was getting in trouble.

So either I am wrong or what is the issue. Where does it say necromancy was banned in ESO time line?

Exactly it hasn't been stated necromancy is banned.

If you believe that, then you've ignored much of the main story of ESO. Mage's Guild and Psijics both openly disdain and outcast necromancers.

Feel free to read up on the Lore if you wish to educate yourself to avoid being guilty of your own accusations of spilling headcanon.
Lore: Necromancy
It includes a long list of references to the lore of TES.

I just read in the very article you sent it said necromancy was practice and tolerated nowhere did it say it's banned.

Also said it was LEGAL in Cyrodil.

Kingdaboss123

vanus galerion allowed necromancy but he banned the use of black soul gems too capture sentient souls.

OtarTheMad

Kingdaboss123 wrote: »

Davor wrote: »

Why are people harping on Necromancy being banned? I though necromancy was banned in Morrowind times, but before that it was practicing and nobody was getting in trouble.

So either I am wrong or what is the issue. Where does it say necromancy was banned in ESO time line?

Exactly it hasn't been stated necromancy is banned.

It has been only banned by certain guilds (Psijjic and Mages) but some look the other way. At the College of Winterhold it is even taught and as long as you follow the colleges rules it’s fine.

A good reference is: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Necromancy

Eremith wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Eremith wrote: »

@Odnoc

Eremith wrote: »

while playable Necromancers are actually lore-friendly in terms of overall TES lore, in ESO particularly they just couldn't exist. You know, like 90% of the ESO stories/quests are based on fighting against Wormcult and other necromancers, and we know that many Tamriel people (especially Redguards, non-Telvanni Dunmers, Mages Guild and Psijics') most likely wouldn't make a deal with necromancers. If it were a good singleplayer game, there would be unique dialogues, reactions, entire quest lines would be changed or even unavailable if you play as a Necromancer. But I know ZOS, I know how exactly they do implement new content into the game. Players using necromancy just going to be completely ignored by NPCs, Vanus Galerion will let them to become a Mages Guild members, and so on.
I would deal with Necromancer class in ESO if it were implemented correctly, with some new unique mechanics, so they could become a rightfull part of the game's world, you know. But they won't, I'm sure. As I see it, the only way to accept a Necromancer player in ESO for me is just to say "yeah, whatever, he's not a necro, I didn't see that dead body he just had raised up from that grave".

Speaking about dragons... It's ok if it will be only a couple of them, they might be hiding somewhere in the Nirn during the 2nd era, there's no inconsistencies lore-wise.

@OtarTheMad
I'm not 'just don't like them'. If you're any interested in my opinion you could take a look at my comments history in my profile. I've wrote a lot about necromancer class already, and I don't want to repeat it all again to everyone who don't see the reasons why necromancer player shouldn't be exist in ESO.

I am not going to scroll thru your comment history lol but I will use what you quoted as a guide. You're judging something before we even understand it honestly. Honestly we can be necromancers and still not agree with what is happening with Mannimarco and Molag Bal. As for seeing dead bodies in town, yes, that's a little odd but any odder than a Sorc summoning daedra in a time when a Daedric Prince is trying to destroy Nirn? Or a NB running around town and murdering all the people? We can be The Vestige and be evil.

What's wrong with daedra summoning? See, daedra are not considered to be evil nor good in TES mostly. Moreover, these so-called lesser daedra such as Clanfeers, Twilights and Scumps are classified as nothing more than just some kind of animals, and there's nothing wrong with a master sorcerer being able to summon and control them. Ask Divayth Fyr.
Also, from what I know, Conjuring school (except its Necromancy branch) has never been forbidden in Tamriel.

NBs are different. They are breaking the game for me. And I don't understand why do people justify the necromancer class by mentioning such things like NBs. Is it okay that if we have one immersive breaking feature than it's okay to add new ones to the game?

See, I totally understand why people want necromancers to be playable. As I said, I would completely agree with that if ZOS could implement necromancer class properly. I just don't want the game to become some kind of amusement theme park where necromancer and redguard are making selfie picture in front of Arkay's statue while NB's killing citizens behind them. But, sadly, that's what ZOS actually want the game to become in the end. Now I see it and now ESO is most likely dead game for me.
For me personnaly, ESO with necromancer class is not the TES game anymore, but just TES inspired game, fan-feak, not even a spin-off.

Conjuration has never been forbidden no but it can make people uncomfortable and fearful of the caster since it deals with things from oblivion.

The nightblade class may be immersion breaking for you but not for someone who wants to be a thief, dark brotherhood member, a blood mage or a vampire with more spells.

Same with necromancer, I personally think that players will hate necromancer class because it won’t meet any dream they had of the class. I also don’t really care if it’s in the game or not but you can think up RP reasons to play a necromancer. It may be immersion breaking for you but not for others.

Ertosi

Kingdaboss123 wrote: »

Ertosi wrote: »

.

Kingdaboss123 wrote: »

Davor wrote: »

Why are people harping on Necromancy being banned? I though necromancy was banned in Morrowind times, but before that it was practicing and nobody was getting in trouble.

So either I am wrong or what is the issue. Where does it say necromancy was banned in ESO time line?

Exactly it hasn't been stated necromancy is banned.

If you believe that, then you've ignored much of the main story of ESO. Mage's Guild and Psijics both openly disdain and outcast necromancers.

Feel free to read up on the Lore if you wish to educate yourself to avoid being guilty of your own accusations of spilling headcanon.
Lore: Necromancy
It includes a long list of references to the lore of TES.

I just read in the very article you sent it said necromancy was practice and tolerated nowhere did it say it's banned.

I suggest better glasses

• Necromancy has generally been considered immoral and illegal in most cultures
• Although reanimating the dead has been practiced in some form since before the advent of written history, most of the earliest laws regarding necromancy banned it upon pain of death. It was banned by the Psijic Order, who considered it both dangerous and heretical. Later, the Mages Guild would also ban the practice. This ban technically remained in place for the Guild's entire history, though some archmagisters of the Guild over the years were satisfied with ignoring it, while others were even suspected of practicing it in secret.
• The Bosmer of Valenwood are said to possess an intolerance for necromancy which "goes beyond all reason".
• The Altmeri animosity for necromancy was perhaps intensified by their long struggles against the Sload of Thras, who long used their mastery of the Dark Arts to inflict horrors upon the Isles.

Kingdaboss123

I'm

Ertosi wrote: »

Kingdaboss123 wrote: »

Ertosi wrote: »

.

Kingdaboss123 wrote: »

Davor wrote: »

Why are people harping on Necromancy being banned? I though necromancy was banned in Morrowind times, but before that it was practicing and nobody was getting in trouble.

So either I am wrong or what is the issue. Where does it say necromancy was banned in ESO time line?

Exactly it hasn't been stated necromancy is banned.

If you believe that, then you've ignored much of the main story of ESO. Mage's Guild and Psijics both openly disdain and outcast necromancers.

Feel free to read up on the Lore if you wish to educate yourself to avoid being guilty of your own accusations of spilling headcanon.
Lore: Necromancy
It includes a long list of references to the lore of TES.

I just read in the very article you sent it said necromancy was practice and tolerated nowhere did it say it's banned.

I suggest better glasses

• Necromancy has generally been considered immoral and illegal in most cultures
• Although reanimating the dead has been practiced in some form since before the advent of written history, most of the earliest laws regarding necromancy banned it upon pain of death. It was banned by the Psijic Order, who considered it both dangerous and heretical. Later, the Mages Guild would also ban the practice. This ban technically remained in place for the Guild's entire history, though some archmagisters of the Guild over the years were satisfied with ignoring it, while others were even suspected of practicing it in secret.
• The Bosmer of Valenwood are said to possess an intolerance for necromancy which "goes beyond all reason".
• The Altmeri animosity for necromancy was perhaps intensified by their long struggles against the Sload of Thras, who long used their mastery of the Dark Arts to inflict horrors upon the Isles.

I am talking about the 2nd era not the 3rd era.

Davor

Ertosi wrote: »

Kingdaboss123 wrote: »

Ertosi wrote: »

.

Kingdaboss123 wrote: »

Davor wrote: »

Why are people harping on Necromancy being banned? I though necromancy was banned in Morrowind times, but before that it was practicing and nobody was getting in trouble.

So either I am wrong or what is the issue. Where does it say necromancy was banned in ESO time line?

Exactly it hasn't been stated necromancy is banned.

If you believe that, then you've ignored much of the main story of ESO. Mage's Guild and Psijics both openly disdain and outcast necromancers.

Feel free to read up on the Lore if you wish to educate yourself to avoid being guilty of your own accusations of spilling headcanon.
Lore: Necromancy
It includes a long list of references to the lore of TES.

I just read in the very article you sent it said necromancy was practice and tolerated nowhere did it say it's banned.

I suggest better glasses

• Necromancy has generally been considered immoral and illegal in most cultures
• Although reanimating the dead has been practiced in some form since before the advent of written history, most of the earliest laws regarding necromancy banned it upon pain of death. It was banned by the Psijic Order, who considered it both dangerous and heretical. Later, the Mages Guild would also ban the practice. This ban technically remained in place for the Guild's entire history, though some archmagisters of the Guild over the years were satisfied with ignoring it, while others were even suspected of practicing it in secret.
• The Bosmer of Valenwood are said to possess an intolerance for necromancy which "goes beyond all reason".
• The Altmeri animosity for necromancy was perhaps intensified by their long struggles against the Sload of Thras, who long used their mastery of the Dark Arts to inflict horrors upon the Isles.

You are forgetting the LEGAL part in Cyrodil? How about the other facts where it is considered "ok"?

Kingdaboss123

You guys need too stop bringing the 3rd era I am specifically talking about the 2nd when ESO is set.

OtarTheMad

Ertosi wrote: »

Kingdaboss123 wrote: »

Ertosi wrote: »

.

Kingdaboss123 wrote: »

Davor wrote: »

Why are people harping on Necromancy being banned? I though necromancy was banned in Morrowind times, but before that it was practicing and nobody was getting in trouble.

So either I am wrong or what is the issue. Where does it say necromancy was banned in ESO time line?

Exactly it hasn't been stated necromancy is banned.

If you believe that, then you've ignored much of the main story of ESO. Mage's Guild and Psijics both openly disdain and outcast necromancers.

Feel free to read up on the Lore if you wish to educate yourself to avoid being guilty of your own accusations of spilling headcanon.
Lore: Necromancy
It includes a long list of references to the lore of TES.

I just read in the very article you sent it said necromancy was practice and tolerated nowhere did it say it's banned.

I suggest better glasses

• Necromancy has generally been considered immoral and illegal in most cultures
• Although reanimating the dead has been practiced in some form since before the advent of written history, most of the earliest laws regarding necromancy banned it upon pain of death. It was banned by the Psijic Order, who considered it both dangerous and heretical. Later, the Mages Guild would also ban the practice. This ban technically remained in place for the Guild's entire history, though some archmagisters of the Guild over the years were satisfied with ignoring it, while others were even suspected of practicing it in secret.
• The Bosmer of Valenwood are said to possess an intolerance for necromancy which "goes beyond all reason".
• The Altmeri animosity for necromancy was perhaps intensified by their long struggles against the Sload of Thras, who long used their mastery of the Dark Arts to inflict horrors upon the Isles.

Anyone can isolate a portion of the article to fit an argument.

- Cyrodiil
Despite the bans on necromancy in Morrowind and within the Mages Guild, it technically remained legal in Cyrodiil. In fact, there have been many times in the history of the Imperial Province where necromancy was extensively practiced, and even publicly tolerated. The only known period that necromancy was supposedly abolished across the Empire was during the reign of Reman II in the late First Era.

- The Empire has been known to hire at least a few necromancers, who are given the corpses of criminals and traitors to use legally in the pursuit of their craft.

- Elsweyr
Elsweyr is said to be relatively accommodating to necromancy. The Khajiit are said to show little if any outrage over uncovered graves, and corpses can apparently be purchased in the port of Senchal. Though corpses don't hold up well in the forests, the deserts of Elsweyr preserve corpses for centuries, allowing skilled necromancers to make use of them relatively easily. The way the bodies are buried in the deserts, under only a small cairn of stones, is also ideal for necromancers on the prowl for resources.

- And at the prestigious College of Winterhold, it is even considered a legitimate arcane study, provided it is done discreetly and in accordance with the College's rules.

-and of course you have the entire section on a Responsible Necromancy

Davor

Kingdaboss123 wrote: »

You guys need too stop bringing the 3rd era I am specifically talking about the 2nd when ESO is set.

What, this is not from the second era?

The Empire has been known to hire at least a few necromancers, who are given the corpses of criminals and traitors to use legally in the pursuit of their craft.[20] During the Alliance War circa 2E 582, the Mages Guild was in disgrace in Cyrodiil and banished from the Imperial City. The Order of the Black Worm seemed ascendant.[41] Mannimarco was running the Empire from behind the scenes,[42] and he kept close ties with the Witchmen of High Rock.[33][nb 2]

Seems to me it was used quite a bit in the second era.