Datamined "Chapter III" - The Elder Scrolls Online: Elsweyr

Kingdaboss123

Davor wrote: »

Kingdaboss123 wrote: »

You guys need too stop bringing the 3rd era I am specifically talking about the 2nd when ESO is set.

What, this is not from the second era?

The Empire has been known to hire at least a few necromancers, who are given the corpses of criminals and traitors to use legally in the pursuit of their craft.[20] During the Alliance War circa 2E 582, the Mages Guild was in disgrace in Cyrodiil and banished from the Imperial City. The Order of the Black Worm seemed ascendant.[41] Mannimarco was running the Empire from behind the scenes,[42] and he kept close ties with the Witchmen of High Rock.[33][nb 2]

Seems to me it was used quite a bit in the second era.

No what you have said i agree with.

SilverIce58

The archmage of the mages guild in the 3rd era banned necromancy, not because of it being "evil or disgusting" but because of a personal grudge with it. Before that though, the mages guild freely uses necromancy whenever and however they wish. One teacher in the guild in Auridon i think states that she only outlaws it in her class bc its messy. Not because its against any moral code.

AlboMalefica

I was intially against having necromancy as class to begin with but the more I think of it the more I realised I was wrong. A new class will do wonders for old & new players alike and now I’m really excited for it! I know there a few lore issues (and I’m looking at you Alik’r desert!) but I hope that the update will address it rather than just letting old content just ignore it.

Overall I’m happy & excited for new things that are coming.

Minnesinger

I have a feeling the dragons are gonna be success in 2019.

Davor

Minnesinger wrote: »

I have a feeling the dragons are gonna be success in 2019.

Dragons or wyverns?

Ermiq

@SilverIce58

SilverIce58 wrote: »

The archmage of the mages guild in the 3rd era banned necromancy, not because of it being "evil or disgusting" but because of a personal grudge with it. Before that though, the mages guild freely uses necromancy whenever and however they wish. One teacher in the guild in Auridon i think states that she only outlaws it in her class bc its messy. Not because its against any moral code.

This again:

Eremith wrote: »

@Bruccius

Bruccius wrote: »

@Eremith
Necromancy is actually legal in most of Tamriel, just shunned. Some folk take this shunning too far and go to violence, resulting in fewer necromancers. The ones that do exist probably do so illegally, as necromancy has certain rules one has to follow.

Only the Dunmer of Morrowind made it illegal. Oh, and the Mages Guild; but they only did so following the rise of Arch-Mage Hannibal Traven.

Oh, come on! Not this again. I'm a bit tired of explaining this to people who know nothing about the lore, but ok, I'll do it again.

Hannibal Traven wasn't the first one who made necromancy illegal in Mages Guild. It's just a common misconception. People just don't read books carefully.
Let's read the Hannibal Traven's "The Black Arts on Trial" which is commonly used by players to justify necromancy in Mages Guild:
http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/The_Black_Arts_On_Trial

The Psijic Order of the Isle of Artaeum, precursor to our own Mages Guild, also forbade its [necromacy] use, not only because it was dangerous, but their belief in the holy and unholy ancestor spirits made it heretical. Again, despite this, we hear many stories of students and masters who ignored this stricture. When Vanus Galerion left Artaeum, he may have disagreed with the Psijics on much, but he also refused to allow Necromancy to be taught in the Guild.

So, at first, here Hannibal says that Psijics' Order also forbids necromancy. Did you know that? Obviously, you didn't. Also, obviously you know nothing about Redguards and Arkay, do you?
At second, he also says Vanus Galerion has made necromancy forbidden in Mages Guild. Not Traven did it, but Vanus did it in the very first days of the Guild, the Mages Guild has been founded with this restriction against necromancy in mind.

Let's read further:

Almost 1100 years have passed since the time of Vanus Galerion, and there have been many archmagisters to lead his guild. The question of Necromancy has continued to be asked. The strictures against it in the Guild have never been lifted, but attitudes about it have shifted back and forth over the years. Some archmagisters have been inclined to ignore it entirely, some have fought very actively against it, and still other archmagisters have been rumored to be Necromancers themselves.

"...The strictures against it in the Guild have never been lifted..." - which means, despite there were many discussions about necromancy and many Guild members continued to ask for necromancy, official policy of Mages Guild considering necromancy always have been "forbidden/not allowed/rescricted".

Next:

In my new role as Archmagister of the Mages Guild, it is my duty to set policy on this matter. Though I have my own opinions on the Black Arts, I took counsel with two of the most learned mages in the Empire, Magister Voth Karlyss of Corinth and Magister Ulliceta gra-Kogg of Orsinium, and we debated for two days.

"...my new role as Archmagister..." - this book was wrote by Hannibal in his very first days of his Archmagister role in the Guild. And as any other new man in charge, he started to determine new policies and new states for the organization he has took care of. And to make a decision about the future of necromancy in Mages Guild, he took the counsel.
The conclusion was:

Conclusion:
The risks of studying Necromancy outweigh its usefulness. The Guild does not wish to censor the study of any of its members, but it will not tolerate studies in the Black Arts, except in limited form for the purpose of combating its evil adherents. This may only been done by rare individuals who have proven themselves both highly skilled and highly cautious, and then only with my express permission and supervision.

So, just like prior to Traven's rule, restrictions against necromancy in Mages Guild hasn't been changed.

I have no idea, why people think Traven was the one who made necromancy forbidden, because, as we can see in this book, he actually didn't make it strictly forbidden either. He just documented their discussion, and made a decision which is going to be there during the time he's in charge.

As always, I see people justifying necromancer class and they say about the lore, but then it turns out that they know nothing about the lore actually.

@AlboMalefica

AlboMalefica wrote: »

I was intially against having necromancy as class to begin with but the more I think of it the more I realised I was wrong. A new class will do wonders for old & new players alike and now I’m really excited for it! I know there a few lore issues (and I’m looking at you Alik’r desert!) but I hope that the update will address it rather than just letting old content just ignore it.

Overall I’m happy & excited for new things that are coming.

It's not just Alik'r only:

eso_nya wrote: »

Things u'd need to rework:

Old Mainquest (Lyris: "Wait, u want to recruit a necromancer?? R u trying to be funny or r u really that [edit: bad word for not-smart]?" Sansa Han will be sooo happy \o/)
Mages Guild (founded and led by Vanus with the purpuse of ridding tamriel of necromancy)
A message across tamriel (Vanus, lol, be faster than the slaughterfish when u have to swim to stirk)
Alikr Desert zone quests (try to persuade the guards on the dock its a good idea to let a necro in their lands when they have their hands full with two of em already)
Aertaeum (who'd think boss-of-valsiren would ban a necro for being what he is? They'd prolly wouldnt let u into Alinor anyways)
Hews Bane (Those guys r mainly redguards aswell)
Aldmeri Zones after Marbruk (the queen wont be fond of necros anymore)
The Rift (w/ the Wormcult trying to enslave companion spirits and sinmur)
Glenumbra (Wormcult farming reputation for u again)
Rivenspire (the peasants might have an opinion against undead thralls)
Southern Bangkorai (Prejudiceless Redguards again, fighting a necromantress)
Eastmarch (King Jorunn might have an opinion aswell after what his brother tried to pull with his dead sister)
Not quite sure about Shadowfenn iirr the skinstealers were using necro magic aswell? Argonians prolly dont care, to relaxed to bother. "Nahhh beko, u have to do what u have to do, the river flows and noone cares."

On the upside: That Indoril guy in Stonefalls prolly thinks u r cool, kinda, well he has the bigger one

Doesnt really qualify for a sad Drizzt Do'Urden backstory aswell, as u could just learn some real magic.

Ermiq

@Kingdaboss123

Kingdaboss123 wrote: »

I'm

Ertosi wrote: »

Kingdaboss123 wrote: »

Ertosi wrote: »

.

Kingdaboss123 wrote: »

Davor wrote: »

Why are people harping on Necromancy being banned? I though necromancy was banned in Morrowind times, but before that it was practicing and nobody was getting in trouble.

So either I am wrong or what is the issue. Where does it say necromancy was banned in ESO time line?

Exactly it hasn't been stated necromancy is banned.

If you believe that, then you've ignored much of the main story of ESO. Mage's Guild and Psijics both openly disdain and outcast necromancers.

Feel free to read up on the Lore if you wish to educate yourself to avoid being guilty of your own accusations of spilling headcanon.
Lore: Necromancy
It includes a long list of references to the lore of TES.

I just read in the very article you sent it said necromancy was practice and tolerated nowhere did it say it's banned.

I suggest better glasses

• Necromancy has generally been considered immoral and illegal in most cultures
• Although reanimating the dead has been practiced in some form since before the advent of written history, most of the earliest laws regarding necromancy banned it upon pain of death. It was banned by the Psijic Order, who considered it both dangerous and heretical. Later, the Mages Guild would also ban the practice. This ban technically remained in place for the Guild's entire history, though some archmagisters of the Guild over the years were satisfied with ignoring it, while others were even suspected of practicing it in secret.
• The Bosmer of Valenwood are said to possess an intolerance for necromancy which "goes beyond all reason".
• The Altmeri animosity for necromancy was perhaps intensified by their long struggles against the Sload of Thras, who long used their mastery of the Dark Arts to inflict horrors upon the Isles.

I am talking about the 2nd era not the 3rd era.

You gotta be kidding me.
All these statements are acceptable to every era, you know?

Psijic Order and Mages Guild were against necromancy since their first days.
Bosmers were against it since... since the known history beginning. The same as Dunmers. The same as Altmers, though Altmers don't think necromancy is an evil thing but they still have restrictions against it's free studying.
Redguards were against it since Arkay became one of the main gods in Redguard's culture, and it always was like that since their known history as well.

SilverIce58

Eremith wrote: »

@Kingdaboss123

Kingdaboss123 wrote: »

I'm

Ertosi wrote: »

Kingdaboss123 wrote: »

Ertosi wrote: »

.

Kingdaboss123 wrote: »

Davor wrote: »

Why are people harping on Necromancy being banned? I though necromancy was banned in Morrowind times, but before that it was practicing and nobody was getting in trouble.

So either I am wrong or what is the issue. Where does it say necromancy was banned in ESO time line?

Exactly it hasn't been stated necromancy is banned.

If you believe that, then you've ignored much of the main story of ESO. Mage's Guild and Psijics both openly disdain and outcast necromancers.

Feel free to read up on the Lore if you wish to educate yourself to avoid being guilty of your own accusations of spilling headcanon.
Lore: Necromancy
It includes a long list of references to the lore of TES.

I just read in the very article you sent it said necromancy was practice and tolerated nowhere did it say it's banned.

I suggest better glasses

• Necromancy has generally been considered immoral and illegal in most cultures
• Although reanimating the dead has been practiced in some form since before the advent of written history, most of the earliest laws regarding necromancy banned it upon pain of death. It was banned by the Psijic Order, who considered it both dangerous and heretical. Later, the Mages Guild would also ban the practice. This ban technically remained in place for the Guild's entire history, though some archmagisters of the Guild over the years were satisfied with ignoring it, while others were even suspected of practicing it in secret.
• The Bosmer of Valenwood are said to possess an intolerance for necromancy which "goes beyond all reason".
• The Altmeri animosity for necromancy was perhaps intensified by their long struggles against the Sload of Thras, who long used their mastery of the Dark Arts to inflict horrors upon the Isles.

I am talking about the 2nd era not the 3rd era.

You gotta be kidding me.
All these statements are acceptable to every era, you know?

Psijic Order and Mages Guild were against necromancy since their first days.
Bosmers were against it since... since the known history beginning. The same as Dunmers. The same as Altmers.
Redguards were against it since Arkay became one of the main gods in Redguard's culture, and it always was like that since their known history as well.

Are the psijics and the mages guild the law of the land? No. So why does it matter to them if we practice necromancy or not.

I swear that everyone always says "but the mages guild banned necromancy" like it's unlawful to practice it, when clearly it's not.

Vapirko

ChunkyCat wrote: »

Wheeeeeeee. Everyone shall fear Chunky-Cat the Khajiit stamina necro.

LeL

Catcromancer. Im just imaging a horde of undead kittens. They look cute in a necrotic sort of way, but those little claws hurt.

On another note, maintenance on the 15th so Im assuming we will hear something then? Are they setting up PTS at that point?

Ermiq

SilverIce58 wrote: »

Eremith wrote: »

@Kingdaboss123

Kingdaboss123 wrote: »

I'm

Ertosi wrote: »

Kingdaboss123 wrote: »

Ertosi wrote: »

.

Kingdaboss123 wrote: »

Davor wrote: »

Why are people harping on Necromancy being banned? I though necromancy was banned in Morrowind times, but before that it was practicing and nobody was getting in trouble.

So either I am wrong or what is the issue. Where does it say necromancy was banned in ESO time line?

Exactly it hasn't been stated necromancy is banned.

If you believe that, then you've ignored much of the main story of ESO. Mage's Guild and Psijics both openly disdain and outcast necromancers.

Feel free to read up on the Lore if you wish to educate yourself to avoid being guilty of your own accusations of spilling headcanon.
Lore: Necromancy
It includes a long list of references to the lore of TES.

I just read in the very article you sent it said necromancy was practice and tolerated nowhere did it say it's banned.

I suggest better glasses

• Necromancy has generally been considered immoral and illegal in most cultures
• Although reanimating the dead has been practiced in some form since before the advent of written history, most of the earliest laws regarding necromancy banned it upon pain of death. It was banned by the Psijic Order, who considered it both dangerous and heretical. Later, the Mages Guild would also ban the practice. This ban technically remained in place for the Guild's entire history, though some archmagisters of the Guild over the years were satisfied with ignoring it, while others were even suspected of practicing it in secret.
• The Bosmer of Valenwood are said to possess an intolerance for necromancy which "goes beyond all reason".
• The Altmeri animosity for necromancy was perhaps intensified by their long struggles against the Sload of Thras, who long used their mastery of the Dark Arts to inflict horrors upon the Isles.

I am talking about the 2nd era not the 3rd era.

You gotta be kidding me.
All these statements are acceptable to every era, you know?

Psijic Order and Mages Guild were against necromancy since their first days.
Bosmers were against it since... since the known history beginning. The same as Dunmers. The same as Altmers.
Redguards were against it since Arkay became one of the main gods in Redguard's culture, and it always was like that since their known history as well.

Are the psijics and the mages guild the law of the land? No. So why does it matter to them if we practice necromancy or not.

I swear that everyone always says "but the mages guild banned necromancy" like it's unlawful to practice it, when clearly it's not.

Of course, Psijic Order and Mages Guild are not the main lawmakers in Tamriel. I never said this, and nobody else did.
The thing is, we have a Mages Guild and Psijic Order skill lines and a lot of quests in the game are related to them, and it just makes no sense when I think of the players who have chose the necromancy way being any tolerable by the Mages or Psijic questgivers. Just imagine the main questline where Vanus Galerion cooperates with a soul shriven necromancer to fight against Molag Bal in Coldharbour. And other necromancers fighting daedra in Couldharbor's public areas along with Mages Guild members. If you take at least a little care about the lore and the story, you couldn't imagine such things.

SilverIce58

Eremith wrote: »

SilverIce58 wrote: »

Eremith wrote: »

@Kingdaboss123

Kingdaboss123 wrote: »

I'm

Ertosi wrote: »

Kingdaboss123 wrote: »

Ertosi wrote: »

.

Kingdaboss123 wrote: »

Davor wrote: »

Why are people harping on Necromancy being banned? I though necromancy was banned in Morrowind times, but before that it was practicing and nobody was getting in trouble.

So either I am wrong or what is the issue. Where does it say necromancy was banned in ESO time line?

Exactly it hasn't been stated necromancy is banned.

If you believe that, then you've ignored much of the main story of ESO. Mage's Guild and Psijics both openly disdain and outcast necromancers.

Feel free to read up on the Lore if you wish to educate yourself to avoid being guilty of your own accusations of spilling headcanon.
Lore: Necromancy
It includes a long list of references to the lore of TES.

I just read in the very article you sent it said necromancy was practice and tolerated nowhere did it say it's banned.

I suggest better glasses

• Necromancy has generally been considered immoral and illegal in most cultures
• Although reanimating the dead has been practiced in some form since before the advent of written history, most of the earliest laws regarding necromancy banned it upon pain of death. It was banned by the Psijic Order, who considered it both dangerous and heretical. Later, the Mages Guild would also ban the practice. This ban technically remained in place for the Guild's entire history, though some archmagisters of the Guild over the years were satisfied with ignoring it, while others were even suspected of practicing it in secret.
• The Bosmer of Valenwood are said to possess an intolerance for necromancy which "goes beyond all reason".
• The Altmeri animosity for necromancy was perhaps intensified by their long struggles against the Sload of Thras, who long used their mastery of the Dark Arts to inflict horrors upon the Isles.

I am talking about the 2nd era not the 3rd era.

You gotta be kidding me.
All these statements are acceptable to every era, you know?

Psijic Order and Mages Guild were against necromancy since their first days.
Bosmers were against it since... since the known history beginning. The same as Dunmers. The same as Altmers.
Redguards were against it since Arkay became one of the main gods in Redguard's culture, and it always was like that since their known history as well.

Are the psijics and the mages guild the law of the land? No. So why does it matter to them if we practice necromancy or not.

I swear that everyone always says "but the mages guild banned necromancy" like it's unlawful to practice it, when clearly it's not.

Of course, Psijic Order and Mages Guild are not the main lawmakers in Tamriel. I never said this, and nobody else did.
The thing is, we have a Mages Guild and Psijic Order skill lines and a lot of quests in the game are related to them, and it just makes no sense when I think of the players who have chose the necromancy way being any tolerable by the Mages or Psijic questgivers. Just imagine the main questline where Vanus Galerion cooperates with a soul shriven necromancer to fight against Molag Bal in Coldharbour. And other necromancers fighting daedra in Couldharbor's public areas along with Mages Guild members. If you take at least a little care about the lore and the story, you couldn't imagine such things.

But vanus can fight against molag bal just fine with a vampire who uses blood magic at his side right? I don't much care for your claims that I dont "care about the lore and the story" when i honestly love both the lore and the story, and necromancy is just an ingredient in the whole thing that adds just that much more flavor to the pot. The vestige using soul magic and resurrecting him/herself is also a form of necromancy you know.

SilverIce58

You also know that redguards as a whole, not only hate necromancy, but also frown upon the use of magic as a whole? Hammerfell is an extremely martial province, and has been for centuries, so to them, anyone using magic and not a real weapon is considered weak and/or evil.

From the uesp page on redguards:

The practice of magic has generally been frowned upon dating back to at least the Second Era, and outsiders are not tolerated in many parts of Hammerfell.[2][12][22] Many believe that no "true" Redguard would stoop to using magic, considering it a weakness.[23] Certain schools that teach the Way of the Sword forbid students to use magic and enchanted weapons.[24] By the Third Era, spellcasters were shunned in Hammerfell, believing them to be wicked individuals who steal souls and tamper with minds.[25] Necromancy has always been abhorred in Redguard culture, due to their reverence of the dead. Although being suspicious of magic is regarded as a hallmark of Redguard culture, it was not always so pronounced. In ancient times, Yokudan war-wizards were part of their armies, albeit rare.[26] Sword-singers were said to have forged swords woven with magic and indeed the Shehai itself is believed to be a form of magic.[5]

Source: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Redguard

Bhaal5

Minnesinger wrote: »

I have a feeling the dragons are gonna be success in 2019.

If you can get past the bugs and loadscreens

Ermiq

SilverIce58 wrote: »

Eremith wrote: »

SilverIce58 wrote: »

Eremith wrote: »

@Kingdaboss123

Kingdaboss123 wrote: »

I'm

Ertosi wrote: »

Kingdaboss123 wrote: »

Ertosi wrote: »

.

Kingdaboss123 wrote: »

Davor wrote: »

Why are people harping on Necromancy being banned? I though necromancy was banned in Morrowind times, but before that it was practicing and nobody was getting in trouble.

So either I am wrong or what is the issue. Where does it say necromancy was banned in ESO time line?

Exactly it hasn't been stated necromancy is banned.

If you believe that, then you've ignored much of the main story of ESO. Mage's Guild and Psijics both openly disdain and outcast necromancers.

Feel free to read up on the Lore if you wish to educate yourself to avoid being guilty of your own accusations of spilling headcanon.
Lore: Necromancy
It includes a long list of references to the lore of TES.

I just read in the very article you sent it said necromancy was practice and tolerated nowhere did it say it's banned.

I suggest better glasses

• Necromancy has generally been considered immoral and illegal in most cultures
• Although reanimating the dead has been practiced in some form since before the advent of written history, most of the earliest laws regarding necromancy banned it upon pain of death. It was banned by the Psijic Order, who considered it both dangerous and heretical. Later, the Mages Guild would also ban the practice. This ban technically remained in place for the Guild's entire history, though some archmagisters of the Guild over the years were satisfied with ignoring it, while others were even suspected of practicing it in secret.
• The Bosmer of Valenwood are said to possess an intolerance for necromancy which "goes beyond all reason".
• The Altmeri animosity for necromancy was perhaps intensified by their long struggles against the Sload of Thras, who long used their mastery of the Dark Arts to inflict horrors upon the Isles.

I am talking about the 2nd era not the 3rd era.

You gotta be kidding me.
All these statements are acceptable to every era, you know?

Psijic Order and Mages Guild were against necromancy since their first days.
Bosmers were against it since... since the known history beginning. The same as Dunmers. The same as Altmers.
Redguards were against it since Arkay became one of the main gods in Redguard's culture, and it always was like that since their known history as well.

Are the psijics and the mages guild the law of the land? No. So why does it matter to them if we practice necromancy or not.

I swear that everyone always says "but the mages guild banned necromancy" like it's unlawful to practice it, when clearly it's not.

Of course, Psijic Order and Mages Guild are not the main lawmakers in Tamriel. I never said this, and nobody else did.
The thing is, we have a Mages Guild and Psijic Order skill lines and a lot of quests in the game are related to them, and it just makes no sense when I think of the players who have chose the necromancy way being any tolerable by the Mages or Psijic questgivers. Just imagine the main questline where Vanus Galerion cooperates with a soul shriven necromancer to fight against Molag Bal in Coldharbour. And other necromancers fighting daedra in Couldharbor's public areas along with Mages Guild members. If you take at least a little care about the lore and the story, you couldn't imagine such things.

But vanus can fight against molag bal just fine with a vampire who uses blood magic at his side right? I don't much care for your claims that I dont "care about the lore and the story" when i honestly love both the lore and the story, and necromancy is just an ingredient in the whole thing that adds just that much more flavor to the pot. The vestige using soul magic and resurrecting him/herself is also a form of necromancy you know.

Well, as we know from some in-game books, vampires are able to hide their vampiric nature very well. And also vampires are not considered to be an evil by default, many of them are still quite human-ish in TES games. And I honestly don't recall any info about how does Vanus' (or other main ESO character's) relate to them.
About blood magic... I don't know what is it exactly. Prior to ESO we only had one spell of siphoning magic in Skyrim. And now they made it the whole new class with new magic spells. Though this blood magic looks like a dark magic, something similar to vampire magic, it's not a necromancy, so what's wrong with it?

Regarding Redguards, yes, mages are not getting respect in their culture, and this aspect is a bit similar to Nords common mindset. See, there are quite few Nords who're studying the magic and it's not like their own families are happy with that. But however, I don't think it's somehow comparable to the necromancy which is not just disrespected but strictly forbidden/hatred in cultures of Redguards and Dunmers, for example.

Seraphayel

Eremith wrote: »

Well, as we know from some in-game books, vampires are able to hide their vampiric nature very well. And also vampires are not considered to be an evil by default, many of them are still quite human-ish in TES games. And I honestly don't recall any info about how does Vanus' (or other main ESO character's) relate to them.
About blood magic... I don't know what is it exactly. Prior to ESO we only had one spell of siphoning magic in Skyrim. And now they made it the whole new class with new magic spells. Though this blood magic looks like a dark magic, something similar to vampire magic, it's not a necromancy, so what's wrong with it?

Well the main storyline in Coldharbour takes you to the vampire place with the bloodstones or some stuff like that. I think Vanus is your reference NPC there (next to the female vampire).

I mean, are vampires really seen as "neutral" in ES? I always got the impression they're usually despised.

Harrdarrzarr

Seraphayel wrote: »

Eremith wrote: »

Well, as we know from some in-game books, vampires are able to hide their vampiric nature very well. And also vampires are not considered to be an evil by default, many of them are still quite human-ish in TES games. And I honestly don't recall any info about how does Vanus' (or other main ESO character's) relate to them.
About blood magic... I don't know what is it exactly. Prior to ESO we only had one spell of siphoning magic in Skyrim. And now they made it the whole new class with new magic spells. Though this blood magic looks like a dark magic, something similar to vampire magic, it's not a necromancy, so what's wrong with it?

Well the main storyline in Coldharbour takes you to the vampire place with the bloodstones or some stuff like that. I think Vanus is your reference NPC there (next to the female vampire).

I mean, are vampires really seen as "neutral" in ES? I always got the impression they're usually despised.

Rivenspire:)

Seraphayel

Harrdarrzarr wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Eremith wrote: »

Well, as we know from some in-game books, vampires are able to hide their vampiric nature very well. And also vampires are not considered to be an evil by default, many of them are still quite human-ish in TES games. And I honestly don't recall any info about how does Vanus' (or other main ESO character's) relate to them.
About blood magic... I don't know what is it exactly. Prior to ESO we only had one spell of siphoning magic in Skyrim. And now they made it the whole new class with new magic spells. Though this blood magic looks like a dark magic, something similar to vampire magic, it's not a necromancy, so what's wrong with it?

Well the main storyline in Coldharbour takes you to the vampire place with the bloodstones or some stuff like that. I think Vanus is your reference NPC there (next to the female vampire).

I mean, are vampires really seen as "neutral" in ES? I always got the impression they're usually despised.

Rivenspire:)

Isn't that specific to Verandis and not vampires in general? I mean all of the nobles pretty much despise the Montclairs.

Sevn

Dracane wrote: »

StormChaser3000 wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

There goes what was left of lore and logic. Real Dragons in ESO, which never happened and which was confirmed by ZoS to never happen. And undead chilling in all major towns and social hubs.

Glad I'm not the only one that sees this. I mean eso has been playing fast and loose with the lore since inception, but this is truly jumping the shark and disregarding all lore entirely.

Lore...lore... Oh, come on! ZOS can make another lorebook which will talk about dragons and this will become a new lore. It's a game and not a real history.
Bring it on! All this stuff sounds too fun.

And this is exactly how cows and whales would comment. Which just confirms my original theory, that you would be very pleased by all of this.

I'm definitely part of the side that finds this news awesome. I love dragons and am indeed very pleased by this. Really glad the devs understand that videogame lore is fictional and can be changed at will.

Sorry I'm not a true Elder Scrolls fan, never played any of them but around an hour of skyrim, but ESO is the best MMO on console so apologies again because I'm sure there are tons of us who have wanted dragons in ESO for a very long time that are not here for the lore but the gameplay. Hoping they go the full mile and figure out how to implement dragon mounts as well!

Yuffie91

I wonder if the dragons means there will never be a full skyrim chapter? A necromancer would fit there a bit more imo. Elseweyr sounds a bit more bard like

But...SOOO EXCITED!!!!!

Dark_Lord_Kuro

[/quote]

For me personnaly, ESO with necromancer class is not the TES game anymore, but just TES inspired game, fan-feak, not even a spin-off.[/quote]

So by your statement syrim isn't a TES game either but only inspired y it since you can be a necromencer

Ermiq

@Sevn

Sevn wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

StormChaser3000 wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

There goes what was left of lore and logic. Real Dragons in ESO, which never happened and which was confirmed by ZoS to never happen. And undead chilling in all major towns and social hubs.

Glad I'm not the only one that sees this. I mean eso has been playing fast and loose with the lore since inception, but this is truly jumping the shark and disregarding all lore entirely.

Lore...lore... Oh, come on! ZOS can make another lorebook which will talk about dragons and this will become a new lore. It's a game and not a real history.
Bring it on! All this stuff sounds too fun.

And this is exactly how cows and whales would comment. Which just confirms my original theory, that you would be very pleased by all of this.

I'm definitely part of the side that finds this news awesome. I love dragons and am indeed very pleased by this. Really glad the devs understand that videogame lore is fictional and can be changed at will.

Sorry I'm not a true Elder Scrolls fan, never played any of them but around an hour of skyrim, but ESO is the best MMO on console so apologies again because I'm sure there are tons of us who have wanted dragons in ESO for a very long time that are not here for the lore but the gameplay. Hoping they go the full mile and figure out how to implement dragon mounts as well!

Don't hype that much and don't think ZOS really changes the lore here to please your uncanon wishes, mate. There were rumors about some living dragons being seen in Alik'r desert, in Vvardenfell and other places long after the Dragon War (when dragons were considered to be extinct) and long before their return in TES V: Skyrim. And lhe living dragons have been mentioned in Daggerfall game (year 1996) which takes place in 3rd era. So, they actually might be found somewhere in ESO's timeline and this posibility was already implemented in the TES lore long before ESO.

Also, I must admit you're completely wrong when you say it's good when developers change the lore. You probably don't understand that and won't understand because you might be one of the new casual gamers generation for whom RPG games are just the same as Dota, but the truth is that the real value of RPGs is their big, consistent and well-thought-out lore. An RPG that has its lore being changed and rebuilt depending on players requests is not a good RPG at all. Loremasters in gamedev are not those who change the lore, but those who improve and expand it.

Kingdaboss123

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

Is necromancy really that bad?

Robo_Hobo

Really? Every mainline TES game since Morrowind has allowed you to be a necromancer. I can understand not liking the concept of it, but to say it makes it not a TES game anymore is strange since it's had such a history of it.

Honestly, I really am surprised how much backlash it seems to be getting. I'm not really much a fan of the class idea myself, personally, but it's certainly not unprecedented. You can raise dead, conjure skeletons in the other TES games and no one bats an eye - let you join the mage's guild, do quests all the same, the only thing that's ever really had the effect of making NPCs mad at you is Vampirism and Lycanthropy, which already doesn't change any NPC reactions in ESO.

The games can't do everything for us for our immersion, especially in an MMO. You can walk around as a skeleton or even a dang Dremora/Xivkyn and no NPCs will take note, I really don't know how players could have thought that suddenly all of that would change. I can even just murder NPCs right next to a quest giver and even with still having a bounty, do the quest.

We've all made it this far with somehow either explaining or simply ignoring all of the max weight orcs in wedding dresses, murder sprees and Dremora polymorph players running around, this will be absolutely no different, and not even as difficult to explain as things that can already be done in the game.

Funny thought:Talking about this has now made me imagine a Necromancer player with a skeleton polymorph summoning a skeleton XD

Theryl

Eremith wrote: »

Also, I must admit you're completely wrong when you say it's good when developers change the lore. You probably don't understand that and won't understand because you might be one of the new casual gamers generation for whom RPG games are just the same as Dota, but the truth is that the real value of RPGs is their big, consistent and well-thought-out lore. An RPG that has its lore being changed and rebuilt depending on players requests is not a good RPG at all. Loremasters in gamedev are not those who change the lore, but those who improve and expand it.

Elder Scrolls lore has been anything but consistent over the years. Much of the lore was heavily re-written between Daggerfall and Redguard with the publication of the first edition of the PGE and the creation of Dragon Breaks to resolve the mutual, incompatible endings of Daggerfall. Oblivion massively changed Cyrodiil and the Empire from what was presented in the PGE and Skyrim's changes to dragon lore were not well received in certain quarters. In short, there have been major lore changes with every TES single player game.

ESO has actually been rather conservative (too conservative, I'd argue) with its additions and in many ways is a return to the PGE1 era with things like tower lore and Sermon 37.

In addition, Bethesda and ZOS have long embraced the concepts that lore is always presented in character and that in game and in character sources can be (and often are) biased, incomplete, misleading, or just plain wrong. As Lawrence Schick notes,

This is a world of myth. This is a world where reality is actually changeable, where the Divines can change not only what happens going forward, but what has happened in the past. So, you know, the idea there is an objective reality behind all these different people’s opinions is not necessarily the case in the world of Tamriel. So listen to what all these different people have to say, make up your own mind, make up your own beliefs about what happened and you’re as liable - since you’re playing in their world and you’re playing a character in their world - what you think happened is as legitimate as what that NPC thinks.

Ermiq

Seraphayel wrote: »

Eremith wrote: »

Well, as we know from some in-game books, vampires are able to hide their vampiric nature very well. And also vampires are not considered to be an evil by default, many of them are still quite human-ish in TES games. And I honestly don't recall any info about how does Vanus' (or other main ESO character's) relate to them.
About blood magic... I don't know what is it exactly. Prior to ESO we only had one spell of siphoning magic in Skyrim. And now they made it the whole new class with new magic spells. Though this blood magic looks like a dark magic, something similar to vampire magic, it's not a necromancy, so what's wrong with it?

Well the main storyline in Coldharbour takes you to the vampire place with the bloodstones or some stuff like that. I think Vanus is your reference NPC there (next to the female vampire).

I mean, are vampires really seen as "neutral" in ES? I always got the impression they're usually despised.

You're right. Just checked a couple of wiki pages and have found that Vanus wants us to kill those vampires. However, as I said earlier, vampires can pretend a normal human/mer, it was legitimated by in-game content, so I can deal with the fact that Vanus don't know about player's vampirism.

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

So by your statement syrim isn't a TES game either but only inspired y it since you can be a necromencer

Necromancy is not restricted in Skyrim, you know?

@Robo_Hobo

Robo_Hobo wrote: »

Really? Every mainline TES game since Morrowind has allowed you to be a necromancer. I can understand not liking the concept of it, but to say it makes it not a TES game anymore is strange since it's had such a history of it.

Honestly, I really am surprised how much backlash it seems to be getting. I'm not really much a fan of the class idea myself, personally, but it's certainly not unprecedented. You can raise dead, conjure skeletons in the other TES games and no one bats an eye - let you join the mage's guild, do quests all the same, the only thing that's ever really had the effect of making NPCs mad at you is Vampirism and Lycanthropy, which already doesn't change any NPC reactions in ESO.

The games can't do everything for us for our immersion, especially in an MMO. You can walk around as a skeleton or even a dang Dremora/Xivkyn and no NPCs will take note, I really don't know how players could have thought that suddenly all of that would change. I can even just murder NPCs right next to a quest giver and even with still having a bounty, do the quest.

We've all made it this far with somehow either explaining or simply ignoring all of the max weight orcs in wedding dresses, murder sprees and Dremora polymorph players running around, this will be absolutely no different, and not even as difficult to explain as things that can already be done in the game.

Funny thought:Talking about this has now made me imagine a Necromancer player with a skeleton polymorph summoning a skeleton XD

Very good post. I gave you Insightful for it. One of a very few adequate and smart comments regarding necromancer class. Thank you.

Elsonso

Robo_Hobo wrote: »

Really? Every mainline TES game since Morrowind has allowed you to be a necromancer. I can understand not liking the concept of it, but to say it makes it not a TES game anymore is strange since it's had such a history of it.

Yes, you have been able to make necromancers as characters, but if ZOS makes it a character class, ESO will be the first TES game to do that.

Seraphayel

lordrichter wrote: »

Robo_Hobo wrote: »

Really? Every mainline TES game since Morrowind has allowed you to be a necromancer. I can understand not liking the concept of it, but to say it makes it not a TES game anymore is strange since it's had such a history of it.

Yes, you have been able to make necromancers as characters, but if ZOS makes it a character class, ESO will be the first TES game to do that.

So basically like every class in ESO?

Revokus

Seraphayel wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Robo_Hobo wrote: »

Really? Every mainline TES game since Morrowind has allowed you to be a necromancer. I can understand not liking the concept of it, but to say it makes it not a TES game anymore is strange since it's had such a history of it.

Yes, you have been able to make necromancers as characters, but if ZOS makes it a character class, ESO will be the first TES game to do that.

So basically like every class in ESO?

Man the arguments some people are trying to make against necromancers in an MMORPG are so funny

Elsonso

Seraphayel wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Robo_Hobo wrote: »

Really? Every mainline TES game since Morrowind has allowed you to be a necromancer. I can understand not liking the concept of it, but to say it makes it not a TES game anymore is strange since it's had such a history of it.

Yes, you have been able to make necromancers as characters, but if ZOS makes it a character class, ESO will be the first TES game to do that.

So basically like every class in ESO?

Not all of them. Nightblade and Sorcerer go back to Arena, and have been in every main TES game except for Skyrim.

Anyway, I my comment was basically because there seems to be a persistent misunderstanding that other TES games had a necromancer class. I wanted to extend what Robo_Hobo said to make the distinction between allowing the player to be a necromancer and providing a necromancer class.

SilverIce58

lordrichter wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Robo_Hobo wrote: »

Really? Every mainline TES game since Morrowind has allowed you to be a necromancer. I can understand not liking the concept of it, but to say it makes it not a TES game anymore is strange since it's had such a history of it.

Yes, you have been able to make necromancers as characters, but if ZOS makes it a character class, ESO will be the first TES game to do that.

So basically like every class in ESO?

Not all of them. Nightblade and Sorcerer go back to Arena, and have been in every main TES game except for Skyrim.

Anyway, I my comment was basically because there seems to be a persistent misunderstanding that other TES games had a necromancer class. I wanted to extend what Robo_Hobo said to make the distinction between allowing the player to be a necromancer and providing a necromancer class.

I see what you mean, but I also want to point out that sorcerers in other tes games wore heavy armor and only used magic...but now that I think about it, its pretty par for the course for pvp...so nevermind.