Templars far too strong

Joy_Division

I just love how so many people think magplar is so easy to have damage and tankiness. They are talking out their butts because 90% of the magplars I see in Cyrodiil are weak damage that can only block, cleanse, and BoL builds (which by the way are very killable, especially as many of them think 10K stamina + witchmother's is a good idea) who only get KBs by Xv1ing with RD. Because when we ride out horses to a flagged keep, there are all these solo open world templars out there cutting off reinforcements waiting to kill us because they class is easy-peasy OP damage+tankiness all in one package, right?

The class has been frustrating for years to play and when ZOS finally reforms them such that it's at least possible to play them competitively without wanting to throw your computer out this window, people are complaining because they're so used to the class being one-dimensional and nonthreatening. It's no wonder ZOS has such a consistent track record with nerfing stuff.

Ruckly

A week from now there will probably be a thread asking for a nerf to lightening ballista because they drain templar magicka + do damage to them and they don't have the sustain to offset it. The lightening field can't be cleansed. Not fair to templars! Templars are to slow to avoid lightening fields.

Pro Tip: lightening ballista fields can be used as archer's stakes. One person can operate 2 ballista easy minimizing the number of people on siege and maximizing the number of people standing behind the effective archer's stakes.

thankyourat

I like how everyone said their class is in a good spot when it's op. Incap use to cost 50 ultimate and stun, nightblades are one shotting everyone from stealth. "nightblades are fine incap is fine". Sorcs one shotting everyone not in heavy armor with rune cage while at the same time having two huge shields, mobility and minor main "sorcs are in a good spot" now we have magplars able to get 30k resists and close to 4000 spell damage. All the while offering unmatched group utility with purge and a big burst heal. "Templars are in a good spot". If anyone in the forums claim their class is in a good spot that in fact means their class is OP.

This magplar meta is horrible and it just enables these tank groups. On XboX cyrodiil is nothing but magplars and wardens. You never see and stamsorcs, magblades, or magsorcs, you see stamblades but they are all snipers. This is because there is no reason to play one of the "DPS" classes. Why would you get sweaty on a magblade or magsorc when you can just play magplar and have similar damage (way higher AOE damage) while having much higher survivability and at the same time keep your group alive. There really is no benefit to playing nightblade or sorc right now

Trinity_Is_My_Name

Enough of these nerf threads. Templars were nerfed so hard they were dead and buried for well over a year. Now that they are somewhat usable again the nerf threads start. Stop it with the nerf "XXX" because I can't beat it.

enzoisadog

l2p issue

Kadoin

thankyourat wrote: »

I like how everyone said their class is in a good spot when it's op. Incap use to cost 50 ultimate and stun, nightblades are one shotting everyone from stealth. "nightblades are fine incap is fine". Sorcs one shotting everyone not in heavy armor with rune cage while at the same time having two huge shields, mobility and minor main "sorcs are in a good spot" now we have magplars able to get 30k resists and close to 4000 spell damage. All the while offering unmatched group utility with purge and a big burst heal. "Templars are in a good spot". If anyone in the forums claim their class is in a good spot that in fact means their class is OP.

This magplar meta is horrible and it just enables these tank groups. On XboX cyrodiil is nothing but magplars and wardens. You never see and stamsorcs, magblades, or magsorcs, you see stamblades but they are all snipers. This is because there is no reason to play one of the "DPS" classes. Why would you get sweaty on a magblade or magsorc when you can just play magplar and have similar damage (way higher AOE damage) while having much higher survivability and at the same time keep your group alive. There really is no benefit to playing nightblade or sorc right now

Blame ZOS for their nerfs. People will move to more defensive builds to compensate for the fact that two specs can "2-shot" anyone in the game without max resists. You can nerf templar today and then you'll be crying about DK tanks and DK healers tomorrow. Nerf those, then sorc healers and sorc tanks, and the list goes on.

Also, 4K spell damage is not unique and possible on any mag build.

NyassaV

I'm kinda annoyed that my stamplar can out preform my magblade in almost everyday and I have very little experience with the stamplar in comparison to my magblade but that's kinda it. Templars are fine

LeifErickson

thankyourat wrote: »

I like how everyone said their class is in a good spot when it's op. Incap use to cost 50 ultimate and stun, nightblades are one shotting everyone from stealth. "nightblades are fine incap is fine". Sorcs one shotting everyone not in heavy armor with rune cage while at the same time having two huge shields, mobility and minor main "sorcs are in a good spot" now we have magplars able to get 30k resists and close to 4000 spell damage. All the while offering unmatched group utility with purge and a big burst heal. "Templars are in a good spot". If anyone in the forums claim their class is in a good spot that in fact means their class is OP.

This magplar meta is horrible and it just enables these tank groups. On XboX cyrodiil is nothing but magplars and wardens. You never see and stamsorcs, magblades, or magsorcs, you see stamblades but they are all snipers. This is because there is no reason to play one of the "DPS" classes. Why would you get sweaty on a magblade or magsorc when you can just play magplar and have similar damage (way higher AOE damage) while having much higher survivability and at the same time keep your group alive. There really is no benefit to playing nightblade or sorc right now

What is this magplar build with 30k resists and 4k spell damage? Apparently I'm using the wrong build.

technohic

LeifErickson wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

I like how everyone said their class is in a good spot when it's op. Incap use to cost 50 ultimate and stun, nightblades are one shotting everyone from stealth. "nightblades are fine incap is fine". Sorcs one shotting everyone not in heavy armor with rune cage while at the same time having two huge shields, mobility and minor main "sorcs are in a good spot" now we have magplars able to get 30k resists and close to 4000 spell damage. All the while offering unmatched group utility with purge and a big burst heal. "Templars are in a good spot". If anyone in the forums claim their class is in a good spot that in fact means their class is OP.

This magplar meta is horrible and it just enables these tank groups. On XboX cyrodiil is nothing but magplars and wardens. You never see and stamsorcs, magblades, or magsorcs, you see stamblades but they are all snipers. This is because there is no reason to play one of the "DPS" classes. Why would you get sweaty on a magblade or magsorc when you can just play magplar and have similar damage (way higher AOE damage) while having much higher survivability and at the same time keep your group alive. There really is no benefit to playing nightblade or sorc right now

What is this magplar build with 30k resists and 4k spell damage? Apparently I'm using the wrong build.

Maybe he's talking about effective. So like 1500 SD and 25000 magicka.

LeifErickson

NyassaV wrote: »

I'm kinda annoyed that my stamplar can out preform my magblade in almost everyday and I have very little experience with the stamplar in comparison to my magblade but that's kinda it. Templars are fine

Mageblade is super strong. Some might say better than stamplar. This is a learn to play issue if what you say is actually true.

Solariken

I recently said this in another thread, but IMO there are really only two things that take magplar into the realm of OP, which are Undeath and Mist Form.

The only natural counter to magplar I see is to limit their mobility and kill them through attrition (aka make them block-heal until they run out of stamina/magicka). Vampirism covers this weakness better on magplar than any other class. It allows reposition to LOS with a window of free stamina regen (and mag regen via CFocus and HtD proc) for almost infinite block-casting heals.

It really is easy mode for anyone with a brain and I think is the root of this cockroachy magplar resurgence.

_Ahala_

Necromancer needs a buff... I mean come on, when is the last time you saw someone using that class?

thankyourat

LeifErickson wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

I like how everyone said their class is in a good spot when it's op. Incap use to cost 50 ultimate and stun, nightblades are one shotting everyone from stealth. "nightblades are fine incap is fine". Sorcs one shotting everyone not in heavy armor with rune cage while at the same time having two huge shields, mobility and minor main "sorcs are in a good spot" now we have magplars able to get 30k resists and close to 4000 spell damage. All the while offering unmatched group utility with purge and a big burst heal. "Templars are in a good spot". If anyone in the forums claim their class is in a good spot that in fact means their class is OP.

This magplar meta is horrible and it just enables these tank groups. On XboX cyrodiil is nothing but magplars and wardens. You never see and stamsorcs, magblades, or magsorcs, you see stamblades but they are all snipers. This is because there is no reason to play one of the "DPS" classes. Why would you get sweaty on a magblade or magsorc when you can just play magplar and have similar damage (way higher AOE damage) while having much higher survivability and at the same time keep your group alive. There really is no benefit to playing nightblade or sorc right now

What is this magplar build with 30k resists and 4k spell damage? Apparently I'm using the wrong build.

Your can run something as simple as fortified brass/spell strategist/blood spawn with infused spell damage glyphs on the jewelry/and infused spell damage glyph on your weapon this will get you really close to 4k with major sorcery active. You can basically switch in any damage set and get really high spell damage or penetration whichever you prefer and inside your rune with bloodspawn procd you will be at right around 30k resist in light armor.

Any magicka build can basically run a set up like this but it's going to be much more effective on a magplar because of the class synergizes. Purge and BoL make it almost impossible to actually kill a magplar with high defenses. Throw in mist form and you have the ability to completely troll players. If magplar has high AOE burst/AOE healing, survivability, and group utility why would I play a nightblade or sorc. While they can match the burst they don't come anywhere near the group utility. I feel that's not balanced at all.

LeifErickson wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

I'm kinda annoyed that my stamplar can out preform my magblade in almost everyday and I have very little experience with the stamplar in comparison to my magblade but that's kinda it. Templars are fine

Mageblade is super strong. Some might say better than stamplar. This is a learn to play issue if what you say is actually true.

I think most would say magblade is at the bottom of the PvP tier list with magsorc. It's just almost impossible to recover from burst in open world cyrodiil. I still think it's stronger than magplar for actual regulated duels with rules and set bans Because you still have the ability to basically control one opponent with root spam and shade and set bans make it impossible to get ridiculous stats. Once players are allowed to run what they want though magblade becomes middle of the pack at best this patch. A stamplar with ravenger/7th/troll king and bleeds will be better than any magblade build out there at open world or duels.

Ruckly

Except for the magplar I run it doesn't really seem to be a thing on PCNA except in ball groups or as support. MagDKs are really the front line tank as they ought to be and are quite common. Magplars don't kill. They stay alive and keep others alive. And their heal skills scale off nothing except "pure" spell power(there is no templar heal spell power set like there is for healing staff and their heals don't scale off war maiden) and magicka of course but templars don't have a pet so big magicka set is out.

They can nuke sort of. They don't have the kill combinations like other classes.

If a sorc dies before a templar(both on same team) it might be because the sorc has a better kill combination and is easier to kill than the templar. So people focus the sorc over the templar. And thus it seems templars are omnipotent because why focus them? They are at the bottom of dps.

If you did nerf templar I don't have a clue what you would nerf. Their aoe heal had a huge nerf. It used to be 1 second cast time 4.3k magicka and now it is instant and 6.5k magicka somewheres around there. They can cast 4 aoe heals now where they could cast 6. Nerfing their pocket heal or cleanse makes no sense. Everything else comes from destruction staff/guild skills/world skills/passives/alliance war skills. Besides cleanse which anyone can get from aliiance war skill line no one has pointed out any specific templar skill that needs to be nerfed. And if cleanse was nerfed the slow templar would become unplayable because they can't removes snares anymore.

Derra

Lord-Otto wrote: »

CyrusArya wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

I'll say this much.
Templars are inherently more tanky. These days, it feels like tanks can dish out almost as much damage as damage-oriented builds. Of course, it's not 100% on par, but 85% - and that is enough if the weak damage build is distracted for a second. Whereas the other way around, tanky builds can easily afford a mistake or two without consequences. The scales aren't tipped right, and that is what Templars benefit from.

As a whole, the Dragonknight and Warden class are both significantly tankier than Templar. And again, I know this isn’t directed towards Stamplar, i.e the stam spec with the weakest healing of them all. So I’ll reiterate when it comes to Magplar that if you actually build to have damage, you won’t be exceptionally tanky and vice versa. Magplar “tankiness” is an illusion. Being able to bounce back constantly to full looks very hardy on the surface until you realize how one dimensional, binary, and completely reactive the class’ defensive design is. Which isn’t an issue if you’re a tanky heal bot, but isnt very forgiving at all if you’re a light armor damage spec.

So no, Templar doesn’t benefit from the dynamic you describe. Basically no Light/Medium Armor damage spec does. You know what does abuse disproportionate amounts of damage relative to their tankiness? Heavy armor stam builds, as they have for years. Magplar, and no magicka class, is in the same ball park when it comes to this regard as heavy stam.

The healing and purging DOES make them tanky. As I said, when you build with defense in mind, gameplay gets super forgiving for Temps. I wasn't talking a glass cannon Templar.

Tricky argument to make - because it only makes them tanky against a single or two opponents depending on class and spec.

I agree with @CyrusArya that templar isn´t as tanky as warden or DK generally speaking - however it feels differently against different classes.
A DK and warden are consistently durable against most opponents - whereas a templar particularly shines against some and is meh at best against others.

I don´t think templar is in a perfect spot this patch and saying it´s too strong is somewhat laughable. Considering balancing ZOS has done to other classes though i have to say templar looks pretty good overall though and as a sorc main i´m a bit envious looking at the whole class package templar offers.

paulychan

Nerf sorcs

LeifErickson

thankyourat wrote: »

LeifErickson wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

I like how everyone said their class is in a good spot when it's op. Incap use to cost 50 ultimate and stun, nightblades are one shotting everyone from stealth. "nightblades are fine incap is fine". Sorcs one shotting everyone not in heavy armor with rune cage while at the same time having two huge shields, mobility and minor main "sorcs are in a good spot" now we have magplars able to get 30k resists and close to 4000 spell damage. All the while offering unmatched group utility with purge and a big burst heal. "Templars are in a good spot". If anyone in the forums claim their class is in a good spot that in fact means their class is OP.

This magplar meta is horrible and it just enables these tank groups. On XboX cyrodiil is nothing but magplars and wardens. You never see and stamsorcs, magblades, or magsorcs, you see stamblades but they are all snipers. This is because there is no reason to play one of the "DPS" classes. Why would you get sweaty on a magblade or magsorc when you can just play magplar and have similar damage (way higher AOE damage) while having much higher survivability and at the same time keep your group alive. There really is no benefit to playing nightblade or sorc right now

What is this magplar build with 30k resists and 4k spell damage? Apparently I'm using the wrong build.

Your can run something as simple as fortified brass/spell strategist/blood spawn with infused spell damage glyphs on the jewelry/and infused spell damage glyph on your weapon this will get you really close to 4k with major sorcery active. You can basically switch in any damage set and get really high spell damage or penetration whichever you prefer and inside your rune with bloodspawn procd you will be at right around 30k resist in light armor.

Any magicka build can basically run a set up like this but it's going to be much more effective on a magplar because of the class synergizes. Purge and BoL make it almost impossible to actually kill a magplar with high defenses. Throw in mist form and you have the ability to completely troll players. If magplar has high AOE burst/AOE healing, survivability, and group utility why would I play a nightblade or sorc. While they can match the burst they don't come anywhere near the group utility. I feel that's not balanced at all.

LeifErickson wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

I'm kinda annoyed that my stamplar can out preform my magblade in almost everyday and I have very little experience with the stamplar in comparison to my magblade but that's kinda it. Templars are fine

Mageblade is super strong. Some might say better than stamplar. This is a learn to play issue if what you say is actually true.

I think most would say magblade is at the bottom of the PvP tier list with magsorc. It's just almost impossible to recover from burst in open world cyrodiil. I still think it's stronger than magplar for actual regulated duels with rules and set bans Because you still have the ability to basically control one opponent with root spam and shade and set bans make it impossible to get ridiculous stats. Once players are allowed to run what they want though magblade becomes middle of the pack at best this patch. A stamplar with ravenger/7th/troll king and bleeds will be better than any magblade build out there at open world or duels.

Mag sorc is another class that is super strong. If people think magblade and magsorc are on the bottom then the other classes must be insane.

thankyourat

LeifErickson wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

LeifErickson wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

I like how everyone said their class is in a good spot when it's op. Incap use to cost 50 ultimate and stun, nightblades are one shotting everyone from stealth. "nightblades are fine incap is fine". Sorcs one shotting everyone not in heavy armor with rune cage while at the same time having two huge shields, mobility and minor main "sorcs are in a good spot" now we have magplars able to get 30k resists and close to 4000 spell damage. All the while offering unmatched group utility with purge and a big burst heal. "Templars are in a good spot". If anyone in the forums claim their class is in a good spot that in fact means their class is OP.

This magplar meta is horrible and it just enables these tank groups. On XboX cyrodiil is nothing but magplars and wardens. You never see and stamsorcs, magblades, or magsorcs, you see stamblades but they are all snipers. This is because there is no reason to play one of the "DPS" classes. Why would you get sweaty on a magblade or magsorc when you can just play magplar and have similar damage (way higher AOE damage) while having much higher survivability and at the same time keep your group alive. There really is no benefit to playing nightblade or sorc right now

What is this magplar build with 30k resists and 4k spell damage? Apparently I'm using the wrong build.

Your can run something as simple as fortified brass/spell strategist/blood spawn with infused spell damage glyphs on the jewelry/and infused spell damage glyph on your weapon this will get you really close to 4k with major sorcery active. You can basically switch in any damage set and get really high spell damage or penetration whichever you prefer and inside your rune with bloodspawn procd you will be at right around 30k resist in light armor.

Any magicka build can basically run a set up like this but it's going to be much more effective on a magplar because of the class synergizes. Purge and BoL make it almost impossible to actually kill a magplar with high defenses. Throw in mist form and you have the ability to completely troll players. If magplar has high AOE burst/AOE healing, survivability, and group utility why would I play a nightblade or sorc. While they can match the burst they don't come anywhere near the group utility. I feel that's not balanced at all.

LeifErickson wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

I'm kinda annoyed that my stamplar can out preform my magblade in almost everyday and I have very little experience with the stamplar in comparison to my magblade but that's kinda it. Templars are fine

Mageblade is super strong. Some might say better than stamplar. This is a learn to play issue if what you say is actually true.

I think most would say magblade is at the bottom of the PvP tier list with magsorc. It's just almost impossible to recover from burst in open world cyrodiil. I still think it's stronger than magplar for actual regulated duels with rules and set bans Because you still have the ability to basically control one opponent with root spam and shade and set bans make it impossible to get ridiculous stats. Once players are allowed to run what they want though magblade becomes middle of the pack at best this patch. A stamplar with ravenger/7th/troll king and bleeds will be better than any magblade build out there at open world or duels.

Mag sorc is another class that is super strong. If people think magblade and magsorc are on the bottom then the other classes must be insane.

If by strong you mean still playable I agree you can play and be successful with both of your skill level is high. I'm referring to strong in relation to the other classes both are lacking in this department for multiple reasons.

One being to make yourself tanky enough to survive in cyrodiil you basically have to get your damage because of the damage shield nerfs. Healing ward is basically useless that was really the only viable burst heal option that magblade had with that gone it's almost impossible to get out of execute range.

Both classes have hard counters stamdens are everywhere and they basically 100% counter magsorc. Mag dks also hard counter magblade.

Sorc is very burst orientated if you don't have the damage to basically one shot you won't kill anyone. Now add in everyone is a tank and you had to lower your damage and sustain for resistances and you almost become non threatening. Magblade burst is probably the most predictable burst in game after the spectral bow Nerf anyone with any reaction time will avoid the ability completely.

These are all potentially game breaking faults for both classes. Where magplars faults are they don't have access to any hours making it no way to go offensive while still being defensive and jabs are a channel making it difficult to aim while being snared. Both can be easily be made up for my gaining resistances and equipping skoria for extra burst. While it's almost impossible to make up for the shield and healing ward nerfs because sorc and magblade don't have any other options. You can see the shift in cyrodiil as well. everyone is a magplar

Ruckly

I must be blind. I don't see everyone magplar in cyrodill PC NA Vivec except in ball groups or with DKs in 5 man groups. They aren't that common and when I do see one they throw spears. I haven't seen a dark flare in forever. In a battle one Backlash might go off. I see lots of DKs both magicka and stamina and lots of sorcs using Lightning Form. Usually there are dogs as well. Lots of snipers. I can't remember the last time I've seen magplar skills in my death recap. I got hit by a gravity crush last campaign that is all I remember. Stamplars are common enough. If you have lots of magplars in your campaign there is a problem with your campaign. People don't want to die or people don't res or no is dropping camps or there are many high damage gankers and few healers. A year ago I could say there were many Cleansing Ritual fields all over the place. I don't see that anymore. But there might be a problem with my graphics showing ground effects I'll have to look at it.

I would say that this is either the most full of crap thread(it isn't even in the correct forum) or people in a short span of time learned how to both heal and dps instead of being tunnel visioned locked into a dps cycle; and it is suddenly overpowered in some peoples views when it is something that always existed.

fullheartcontainer

I'll be honest, if Templar was OP more people would play it. When Templars got buffed with Wolfhunter, I saw a LOT of people playing Templars suddenly in Cyrodiil. I think these people believed the buffs would make them OP and would be the new FotW. But... you don't see them anymore. They all left. Went back to their own classes.

It's because Templars aren't OP. The recent buffs brought them in line with a pretty balanced playstyle. If you think Templars are OP, I advise rolling a Templar and seeing how well you can actually do.

Lord-Otto

Derra wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

CyrusArya wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

I'll say this much.
Templars are inherently more tanky. These days, it feels like tanks can dish out almost as much damage as damage-oriented builds. Of course, it's not 100% on par, but 85% - and that is enough if the weak damage build is distracted for a second. Whereas the other way around, tanky builds can easily afford a mistake or two without consequences. The scales aren't tipped right, and that is what Templars benefit from.

As a whole, the Dragonknight and Warden class are both significantly tankier than Templar. And again, I know this isn’t directed towards Stamplar, i.e the stam spec with the weakest healing of them all. So I’ll reiterate when it comes to Magplar that if you actually build to have damage, you won’t be exceptionally tanky and vice versa. Magplar “tankiness” is an illusion. Being able to bounce back constantly to full looks very hardy on the surface until you realize how one dimensional, binary, and completely reactive the class’ defensive design is. Which isn’t an issue if you’re a tanky heal bot, but isnt very forgiving at all if you’re a light armor damage spec.

So no, Templar doesn’t benefit from the dynamic you describe. Basically no Light/Medium Armor damage spec does. You know what does abuse disproportionate amounts of damage relative to their tankiness? Heavy armor stam builds, as they have for years. Magplar, and no magicka class, is in the same ball park when it comes to this regard as heavy stam.

The healing and purging DOES make them tanky. As I said, when you build with defense in mind, gameplay gets super forgiving for Temps. I wasn't talking a glass cannon Templar.

Tricky argument to make - because it only makes them tanky against a single or two opponents depending on class and spec.

I agree with @CyrusArya that templar isn´t as tanky as warden or DK generally speaking - however it feels differently against different classes.
A DK and warden are consistently durable against most opponents - whereas a templar particularly shines against some and is meh at best against others.

I don´t think templar is in a perfect spot this patch and saying it´s too strong is somewhat laughable. Considering balancing ZOS has done to other classes though i have to say templar looks pretty good overall though and as a sorc main i´m a bit envious looking at the whole class package templar offers.

Well, I am speaking from a sorc perspective only. Haven't taken my DK nor NB into Cyro this patch. And you know how it feels having your Curse purged and your four seconds of burst preparation outhealed in a second.
I'm not exactly witchhunting Templars here. Rather the whole trend of defensive builds these days annoys me. As they perform better and easier against a damage build than the squishy damage one against the "tank". Purely from a sorc perspective, but you know how painful it is to see 30k of hitpoints and knowing your opponent can go afk and you won't kill him. But let your shields drop, get CC'ed, and even a low-damage ult combo can kill you. Or the advancing enemy reinforcements. It's not properly balanced.

thankyourat

Ruckly wrote: »

I must be blind. I don't see everyone magplar in cyrodill PC NA Vivec except in ball groups or with DKs in 5 man groups. They aren't that common and when I do see one they throw spears. I haven't seen a dark flare in forever. In a battle one Backlash might go off. I see lots of DKs both magicka and stamina and lots of sorcs using Lightning Form. Usually there are dogs as well. Lots of snipers. I can't remember the last time I've seen magplar skills in my death recap. I got hit by a gravity crush last campaign that is all I remember. Stamplars are common enough. If you have lots of magplars in your campaign there is a problem with your campaign. People don't want to die or people don't res or no is dropping camps or there are many high damage gankers and few healers. A year ago I could say there were many Cleansing Ritual fields all over the place. I don't see that anymore. But there might be a problem with my graphics showing ground effects I'll have to look at it.

I would say that this is either the most full of crap thread(it isn't even in the correct forum) or people in a short span of time learned how to both heal and dps instead of being tunnel visioned locked into a dps cycle; and it is suddenly overpowered in some peoples views when it is something that always existed.

It could be the meta is different on different platforms magplar is without a doubt the second most popular class on Xbox na. Xbox meta is probably a lot more zergy than other platforms as well with majority of the player base playing within a ball zerg. You rarely see solo players at all.

I think people are thinking of op in terms of you can't beat a magplar 1v1 and that's not the case. while magplar is good 1v1 it's far from unbeatable. What makes magplar op is the group utility and survivability it offers in combination with it's 1v1 ability. So you can hold your own and be a top teir threat 1v1 then you can turn around and keep your group alive and be the best class for group play. No other class can do this anywhere near as effectively as magplar warden probably comes the closest.

So I think magplar is op for a different reason than the typical reason most tend to think a class is op. It's op because it over centralizing the meta and enabling tanky groups. In my opinion no class that can heal others the way templar can should be able to have as much burst and survivability that the class does. If this game was balanced based off 1v1 magplar is fine. But this is a group based game and for group play templar is op. If you were going to build a ball group what's the first class you look for.

CyrusArya

thankyourat wrote: »

It could be the meta is different on different platforms magplar is without a doubt the second most popular class on Xbox na. Xbox meta is probably a lot more zergy than other platforms as well with majority of the player base playing within a ball zerg. You rarely see solo players at all.

I think people are thinking of op in terms of you can't beat a magplar 1v1 and that's not the case. while magplar is good 1v1 it's far from unbeatable. What makes magplar op is the group utility and survivability it offers in combination with it's 1v1 ability. So you can hold your own and be a top teir threat 1v1 then you can turn around and keep your group alive and be the best class for group play. No other class can do this anywhere near as effectively as magplar warden probably comes the closest.

So I think magplar is op for a different reason than the typical reason most tend to think a class is op. It's op because it over centralizing the meta and enabling tanky groups. In my opinion no class that can heal others the way templar can should be able to have as much burst and survivability that the class does. If this game was balanced based off 1v1 magplar is fine. But this is a group based game and for group play templar is op. If you were going to build a ball group what's the first class you look for.

I dont know what kind of pug zergs you’re referring to in your post, but idk any good raid style groups that run magplars as their core damage, or even core support. Because magdens and mdks both make for better group dps/offensive support. There is only one role and focus that magplar is decidedly best at, one, and thats as a dedicated healer. Emphasis on the word dedicated. And that’s why I don’t think you know what you’re talking about. A magplar that’s specd for bringing that level of group healing and utility is not gonna turn around and be a threat 1v1 at all, let alone a top tier one. And that’s the point I have been trying to stress all along that people can’t seem to grasp: damage magplars and tanky support/healing magplars are completely different beasts. They are designed, geared, and perform very differently from each other. But people like you who dont understand the class are taking the best qualities of both sides and creating a mythical class and build that doesn't actually exist to cry about. When in reality, in the process of dedicating to one side of the spectrum you necessarily lose the strength of the other.

Edit: let me give a good example that illustrates my point. Breath of Life/Honor the Dead is extremely expensive, and it’s also the only good class heal Templar has. A damage build needs to run Honor the Dead to be able to sustain. But that morph literally only heals one person- and it may not even be the caster. In contrast, Breath of Life is clearly the better group support morph, but in order to spam it serious concessions have to be made in regards to sustain such as running heavy armor which in turn gimps damage.

Ruckly

I played my medium armor stamDK today. More effective offensively than my magplar. Take flight + talons + maybe caltrops; magplar has nothing like that. With Champion of the Hist set I was spamming take flight. With medium armor and stam regen I could spam vigor into different groups of people. It was a good reality check. This thread is insane.

CatchMeTrolling

Knew it was a reason I avoid this section. Templar’s are fine. Annoying, sure? But generally fine.

CatchMeTrolling

thankyourat wrote: »

I like how everyone said their class is in a good spot when it's op. Incap use to cost 50 ultimate and stun, nightblades are one shotting everyone from stealth. "nightblades are fine incap is fine". Sorcs one shotting everyone not in heavy armor with rune cage while at the same time having two huge shields, mobility and minor main "sorcs are in a good spot" now we have magplars able to get 30k resists and close to 4000 spell damage. All the while offering unmatched group utility with purge and a big burst heal. "Templars are in a good spot". If anyone in the forums claim their class is in a good spot that in fact means their class is OP.

This magplar meta is horrible and it just enables these tank groups. On XboX cyrodiil is nothing but magplars and wardens. You never see and stamsorcs, magblades, or magsorcs, you see stamblades but they are all snipers. This is because there is no reason to play one of the "DPS" classes. Why would you get sweaty on a magblade or magsorc when you can just play magplar and have similar damage (way higher AOE damage) while having much higher survivability and at the same time keep your group alive. There really is no benefit to playing nightblade or sorc right now

Xbox is filled with zerg pvp and people that are scared to die, it’s not a testament of how good Templar’s are. In fact, annoying healbots have always been a thing on Xbox. Albeit, these days it’s not just Templar’s it’s tanky group builds in general. You can literally run into groups filled with tanks abusing proc sets, snares, roots and ccs.

Minno

Solariken wrote: »

I recently said this in another thread, but IMO there are really only two things that take magplar into the realm of OP, which are Undeath and Mist Form.

The only natural counter to magplar I see is to limit their mobility and kill them through attrition (aka make them block-heal until they run out of stamina/magicka). Vampirism covers this weakness better on magplar than any other class. It allows reposition to LOS with a window of free stamina regen (and mag regen via CFocus and HtD proc) for almost infinite block-casting heals.

It really is easy mode for anyone with a brain and I think is the root of this cockroachy magplar resurgence.

You won't be able to kill magplar mobilty without killing mobilty sources for other classes. And I can be faster than vamplar without mist:

https://youtu.be/e-f39MOFmzc

Heimpai

Drdeath20 wrote: »

MuckyBums wrote: »

Templars. All the purifies. Paired with argonians are far far too strong. There damage is stupid high. Resistances stupid high. They are currently the master class. Pretty much crappy players can pick one up and cause decent players trouble. Most are sword shield. And they can have good stamina pools. They are like sorcs used to be but stronger. I mean who's idea was it to give them 5 purifies over and over. And rune. The class for a long time has out performed all other classes. Everyone accept the people who use them complain . F..All is changed

Templars are definitely better than magdens, stamdks, and sorcs but have you ever tried a magdk, stamden, or any nightblade?

Are you saying magblade is better than templars? 🤔

technohic

I do feel personally I wouldn't like magblade or magsorc right now because I never liked healing ward gameplay to begin with. Sorc could be tolerated if you didn't have to double bar matriarch. I just like more self healing

Iskras

Heimpai wrote: »

Drdeath20 wrote: »

MuckyBums wrote: »

Templars. All the purifies. Paired with argonians are far far too strong. There damage is stupid high. Resistances stupid high. They are currently the master class. Pretty much crappy players can pick one up and cause decent players trouble. Most are sword shield. And they can have good stamina pools. They are like sorcs used to be but stronger. I mean who's idea was it to give them 5 purifies over and over. And rune. The class for a long time has out performed all other classes. Everyone accept the people who use them complain . F..All is changed

Templars are definitely better than magdens, stamdks, and sorcs but have you ever tried a magdk, stamden, or any nightblade?

Are you saying magblade is better than templars? 🤔

...to some situations, maybe. Cyrodill its a 'open world'. About fight, PVP/Duel, Templar seems better at this moment.