Templars far too strong

WaltherCarraway

O_LYKOS wrote: »

MuckyBums wrote: »

They are currently the master class. Pretty much crappy players can pick one up and cause decent players trouble.

Honestly couldnt disagree more. Decent players i know can wipe the floor with good templars lol let alone a crappy player. There is no master class.

really like to see someone wreck a good stamina warden with his own magicka dragonknight.


afaik even those top tier players cannot do that. lol

btw, talk is cheap, show me the vid. and please don't forward some Legend 1v1 tourney result.

zyk

Once again, a Templar thread conclusively proves that Forumplars are OP.

Lord-Otto

And that sorcs are super stronk.
This gets me the most. You can read on a templar thread how sorcs are super powerful if you build right, while templars are seemingly merely okay. Meanwhile, old sorc mains are depressed or quit already, but sure, sorcs profitted from this patch, right.

technohic

zyk wrote: »

Once again, a Templar thread conclusively proves that Forumplars are OP.

Perhaps if someone discussed why/how on a more realistic note than blaming rune while not even knowing how it works until the middle of the thread, or extended ritual which has always been there and probably the only thing making it strong now Is players wanting to be carried by bleeds.

There's definitely something to be said about the super tanky heal bot templar in these tank ball groups but you are going to get a strong reaction considering ZOS went after them before and practically wiped out more independent templars and ironically forced them more into pocket healer roles for a couple years. And the reaction is only going to be worse when you have some sorcs coming in and crying because they've been down a couple months. Cry me a river and get back to me in 2020. Meanwhile; explain to me what really is wrong with Templar

Ruckly

technohic wrote: »

zyk wrote: »

Once again, a Templar thread conclusively proves that Forumplars are OP.

Perhaps if someone discussed why/how on a more realistic note than blaming rune while not even knowing how it works until the middle of the thread, or extended ritual which has always been there and probably the only thing making it strong now Is players wanting to be carried by bleeds.

There's definitely something to be said about the super tanky heal bot templar in these tank ball groups but you are going to get a strong reaction considering ZOS went after them before and practically wiped out more independent templars and ironically forced them more into pocket healer roles for a couple years. And the reaction is only going to be worse when you have some sorcs coming in and crying because they've been down a couple months. Cry me a river and get back to me in 2020. Meanwhile; explain to me what really is wrong with Templar

When you say tank ball groups how big are you talking? I've seen super effective 5 man templar/dk groups in cyrodill. I've seen large groups of templars + others. There is a process for knocking our the large groups. The 5 man groups are good at dragging out there hp bars. I've seen them hold 15+. The larger groups kite and kill but there is usually a guild on that can knock them out whenever they want. And the guild has a choice when they knock them out and that tanky group can usually be kited around in the meantime. They don't seem to break formation very well and they aren't immune to damage spikes.

usmcjdking

Templar isn't OP lol. A heavy armor non-vamp magplar is gonna get roasted if 3 or 4 guys with a brain jump on him/her.

Vamp synergizes insanely well with HA magplar and covers practically every gap they have. Vamp is the issue behind a lot of these "unkillable magplars muh lightning heavy with valkyn doesn't kill them". Remove vamp from the equation and magplar isn't anywhere near as miserable to deal with.

LeifErickson

I feel like I'm not playing the same game as most people when they say magplar healbots are too strong. I see a lot of stuff in this thread about how damage magplar is in a good spot and how healbots are a separate issue that needs to be addressed in a way to not nerf the templar class overall, but I honestly don't see a problem with healbots. I know this is an unpopular opinion on these forums so I don't expect people to agree with me, but I honestly don't think magplar healbots are overpowered, let alone even good at all.

The strongest healbot I have ever seen these last couple patches is Geronimoose and he is a mag warden. I play with a mag nightblade a lot and after fights I will look at my FTC heals per second and it will say 3k to 8k depending on if bogdan is in the equation or not. That's 3k to 8k heals per second while he is also ccing people through roll and block and hitting 15k+ assassin's wills. Last time I played with him he hit a 25k will on a cp 810. Keep in mind he is in heavy with 28k health.

In the mean time, every time I come up against a group with a magplar healbot, I just leave him for last and kill everyone else. The healbot doesn't have good enough healing to keep his group alive. Literally the only thing he is good at is keeping himself alive. Fair enough, he is a good tank. But he isn't helping his team at all and he isn't fulfilling his purpose.

If there really are god tier magplar healbots out there and I just haven't seen them, which I think is very unlikely, then I guess I'm wrong. But I honestly think healbots are useless compared to the alternatives and I don't think there needs to be anything done to "address" magplar healbots.

Ruckly

Aren't the 80k hp NB healers even better?

Aedrion

Templars are where all others classes should be in terms of balance.
Good skills, decent passives, all round viable and strong. Able to beat all other classes in a fair fight.

Leave templar as it is, but bring the other classes in line.
Put a chastity belt on NB's and Wardens and give cookies to sorcs and DK's.

zyk

Oh yes, because sorcs and dks are struggling so much open world.............

Every class balance thread in 2018:

Ruckly

Aedrion wrote: »

Templars are where all others classes should be in terms of balance.
Good skills, decent passives, all round viable and strong. Able to beat all other classes in a fair fight.

Leave templar as it is, but bring the other classes in line.
Put a chastity belt on NB's and Wardens and give cookies to sorcs and DK's.

If other classes were brought in line with templar the people playing those classes would quit lol. Remember what forum this is in.

Kadoin

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

O_LYKOS wrote: »

MuckyBums wrote: »

They are currently the master class. Pretty much crappy players can pick one up and cause decent players trouble.

Honestly couldnt disagree more. Decent players i know can wipe the floor with good templars lol let alone a crappy player. There is no master class.

really like to see someone wreck a good stamina warden with his own magicka dragonknight.


afaik even those top tier players cannot do that. lol

btw, talk is cheap, show me the vid. and please don't forward some Legend 1v1 tourney result.

I tried killing a "good" stamden that had heavy + max resist + SnB, and it was near impossible on my mag DK. He had a large amount of damage, absorb magic meant I couldn't light attack without healing him a good portion of his health (and it lasted 30 seconds), he had better heals, better defense, better mobility, and apparently even better CC. Oh yeah and he had bleeds to stack...

Yeah, I think that was around the time I realized ZOS has no idea of balance and/or no intention to do so. Granted I was in light armor at the time, but still; I would have had a better chance vs any other spec in the game.

As a result, almost all my "mag builds" are now hybrid since there is little difference in damage, sustain, or even survival (its actually more advantageous to be a hybrid from what I've seen).

Minno

Ruckly wrote: »

Aedrion wrote: »

Templars are where all others classes should be in terms of balance.
Good skills, decent passives, all round viable and strong. Able to beat all other classes in a fair fight.

Leave templar as it is, but bring the other classes in line.
Put a chastity belt on NB's and Wardens and give cookies to sorcs and DK's.

If other classes were brought in line with templar the people playing those classes would quit lol. Remember what forum this is in.

I mean he's not wrong.

Xvorg

WTF! A nerf templar thread?

Now I've seen it all

CompM4s

Templars are fine, most that see extremely tanky magplars are because they are heal tanks. Their damage is very low. Cc’s and defiles are what kill magplar. Spamming bol and breaking free drains all resources especially when they block cast bol.

MerlinPendragon

I opened this legit thinking the subject was clickbait/trolling.

IMO templars are weak overall. They have a few individual strong points that can be exploited, but that can be said of any build or setup to some degree.

No changes needed here. Let builds cycle through another patch before making any changes.

MuckyBums

Your a noob. It's obvious you know fa about this game

Jameliel

Depends who is playing it. Some players just play their preferred class really well.

SugaComa

The difference you see is not templars in general, but the long term templars players who know how to play their character will seem massively OP ... But that's the same as any class ... Those who know the classes they play work will always appear op to new players those who migrate towards the new meta characters and those who basically have no understanding of other classes

Ragnaroek93

Magplar is fine and stamplar could use some small buffs in my opinion. Agree on Argonian tho, this race needs to be tuned down.

eol

CyrusArya wrote: »

...Still, your assertion that defense intensive magplars have high damage is incorrect. If you invest too much into mitigation and defenses as a magplar your damage will be severely lacking.

Absolutely correct. I play a Magplar with decent defense and I find that I simply do not have the burst to kill some builds, especially when well-played. I imagine that to the ones I *can* kill, my build seems powerful, and to the ones I cannot kill, it seems weak!

I do think a Templar can seem overpowered to an opponent relying on DoTs. No question. But like someone said, its a rock/paper/scissors game, and there are always going to be builds that are powerful against some builds but weaker against others.

When I look at the leaderboards, I don't see too many magplars, and the some of the ones I do see are healing specialists. So while the OP thinks templars are overpowered, the overall player population does not, because if they truly were overpowered the meta would mean we would see a lot more of them.

Princess_Ciri

this is a joke right?

MuckyBums

No joke. Come on Xbox. I will show you a few you would never kill

Mrsinister2

MuckyBums wrote: »

No joke. Come on Xbox. I will show you a few you would never kill

But can they kill you or anyone else? I see lots of almost unkillable templars but they have almost no damage and aren't worth your time to fight.

Minno

Mrsinister2 wrote: »

MuckyBums wrote: »

No joke. Come on Xbox. I will show you a few you would never kill

But can they kill you or anyone else? I see lots of almost unkillable templars but they have almost no damage and aren't worth your time to fight.

I've had my extended ritual outheal their damage. But they are usually stuck in BoL spam anyway.

Those templars are training-wheel-plars lol.

Sarousse

Templars are fine.

Shield ultimate isnt. 10 seconds is totally overpowered and synergizes perfectly with some classes like templars / dk that are vampires, bringing in way to much survivability.

Vapirko

The problem with all these nerf threads is that people rarely bring any specifics to the table, nor do they provide any context whatsoever. Which means they’re rant threads that should have no bearing on anything. If you legitimately think something is OP, bring real evidence to the table so we can really discuss it not have a bunch of subjective conjecture.

Joy_Division

Vapirko wrote: »

The problem with all these nerf threads is that people rarely bring any specifics to the table, nor do they provide any context whatsoever. Which means they’re rant threads that should have no bearing on anything. If you legitimately think something is OP, bring real evidence to the table so we can really discuss it not have a bunch of subjective conjecture.

What's sad is that these people can't even be bothered to provide us with misleading death-recaps.

technohic

Joy_Division wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

The problem with all these nerf threads is that people rarely bring any specifics to the table, nor do they provide any context whatsoever. Which means they’re rant threads that should have no bearing on anything. If you legitimately think something is OP, bring real evidence to the table so we can really discuss it not have a bunch of subjective conjecture.

What's sad is that these people can't even be bothered to provide us with misleading death-recaps.

Are we sure they are talking about dieing to them? Im getting the impression they are referring to the guys who turtle up and spam heals including remembrance while their buddy's beat on them. Seen a few like that but thats why I like to keep defile up.

Ruckly

Sarousse wrote: »

Templars are fine.

Shield ultimate isnt. 10 seconds is totally overpowered and synergizes perfectly with some classes like templars / dk that are vampires, bringing in way to much survivability.

I thought shield ult went well with DK. Resto staff ultimate works very well with templar because they get a passive 10% +crit damage and then 15% from the ultimate while getting a big HoT and damage reduction. I use the resto staff ultimate offensively. I'm not going to die for 5 seconds and I have a crit modifier for 7 so I'll empty my magicka bar into you. Templar groups back barring resto ult I can see being a problem. First they have to know it's a thing though. It's not op in a BG sense and would probably be difficult to quantify what with all the time-dependent vector calculus and statistical aggregates and placebos and group forms and latency in a cyrodill sense. Some people need all that data to determine anything though. It's definitely simpler with governing philosophical principles that apply to all the arts and all the sciences but behold some do not believe philosophy is the basis of grammar, logic, math, reasoning, abstract induction, multi-tiered deduction, and so on.