Templars far too strong

WaltherCarraway

Crescent Sweep is so weak

Vapirko

technohic wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

Haashhtaag wrote: »

Total dark needs a nerf. That is all imo.

It just got one

correct, you cannot be cc'd while in the bubble.

I actually thought about this last night while on my NB. Went to run from a zerg and someone put this on me. I was about to break free and was like "no wait. I have cc immunity already and nothing that's going to proc this"

Even if it were UC; It wont hurt that much.

That said; I believe DKs have a legitimate complaint about how their armor passively procs this.

Good. Freakin. Point.

Lord-Otto

I'll say this much.
Templars are inherently more tanky. These days, it feels like tanks can dish out almost as much damage as damage-oriented builds. Of course, it's not 100% on par, but 85% - and that is enough if the weak damage build is distracted for a second. Whereas the other way around, tanky builds can easily afford a mistake or two without consequences. The scales aren't tipped right, and that is what Templars benefit from.

ezio45

you spelled nightblade wrong

CyrusArya

Lord-Otto wrote: »

I'll say this much.
Templars are inherently more tanky. These days, it feels like tanks can dish out almost as much damage as damage-oriented builds. Of course, it's not 100% on par, but 85% - and that is enough if the weak damage build is distracted for a second. Whereas the other way around, tanky builds can easily afford a mistake or two without consequences. The scales aren't tipped right, and that is what Templars benefit from.

As a whole, the Dragonknight and Warden class are both significantly tankier than Templar. And again, I know this isn’t directed towards Stamplar, i.e the stam spec with the weakest healing of them all. So I’ll reiterate when it comes to Magplar that if you actually build to have damage, you won’t be exceptionally tanky and vice versa. Magplar “tankiness” is an illusion. Being able to bounce back constantly to full looks very hardy on the surface until you realize how one dimensional, binary, and completely reactive the class’ defensive design is. Which isn’t an issue if you’re a tanky heal bot, but isnt very forgiving at all if you’re a light armor damage spec.

So no, Templar doesn’t benefit from the dynamic you describe. Basically no Light/Medium Armor damage spec does. You know what does abuse disproportionate amounts of damage relative to their tankiness? Heavy armor stam builds, as they have for years. Magplar, and no magicka class, is in the same ball park when it comes to this regard as heavy stam.

Drdeath20

MuckyBums wrote: »

Templars. All the purifies. Paired with argonians are far far too strong. There damage is stupid high. Resistances stupid high. They are currently the master class. Pretty much crappy players can pick one up and cause decent players trouble. Most are sword shield. And they can have good stamina pools. They are like sorcs used to be but stronger. I mean who's idea was it to give them 5 purifies over and over. And rune. The class for a long time has out performed all other classes. Everyone accept the people who use them complain . F..All is changed

Templars are definitely better than magdens, stamdks, and sorcs but have you ever tried a magdk, stamden, or any nightblade?

Drdeath20

LeifErickson wrote: »

OMG finally i can agree with a post!! Tempars are waaay to good all they due is press 1 button to full and i have to start my hole rotation over agan!! So annnoying!!! Also i apply all my dots that take forever too do and they press 1 button and i have to start all over. also they can tank 1435 people like its noting no other class can doo that!! And they just press that on1 beam skill and you are insta dead even from 200 yards away! I cant believe people are defending this class in this thread write now omg im done with this community

OP seems like u r the only reasonable one left i gave u a agree keep fioghing the good fight!!!

Press 1 button?

Lets go over your thought process.

You apply all your DoTs and the templars presses 1 button and is back to full health. Im assuming you are referring to BoL/HtD.

Well the templar still has all the DoTs applied and you do not have to restart your rotation.

Or do you mean cleansing ritual which removes 5 negative effects but then the templar is still at low health.

Or what your really trying to say is that a templar does what every other class does (purge then heal) but to a degree better.

Ill admit that templars are better than decent all around but not OP.

dodgehopper_ESO

Reverb wrote: »

Just because you struggle against Templars does not in any way mean that they are overperforming. It just means that your particular build (I'm guessing DoT based) is less effective against them. It's a rock-paper-scissors situation, where every class, build and playstyle wipes the floor with some types of opponents and not others.

Interestingly since beta the Templar class was intended (quite obviously I might add) as the counter to Dragon Knight. DK was built as the tanky-controller and Templar was designed as the Tank-Healer. The design of the game has changed quite a lot but some of those elements still remain, namely the purging of DoTs and a relatively shared construction of a tanky build between the two classes. Epic DK v. Temp battles have been around a long time (excluding the *** OP Vampire-DK-PermaUlti Build).

As has been said as before also Templar is the LEAST mobile class in the game and that includes Dragon Knight. This has been the case essentially forever. Templar class abilities have almost as long as I can remember also a tendency in pvp to keep you in combat forever as well, which means if you are in a massive team you will get left behind. Good luck, so long, good bye. Templar is in a pretty good place right now but please don't be so ignorant. Stop playing your Nightblade or Sorcerer for a while and learn a thing or two.

_Ahala_

Only change needed is that volatile armor’s damage return needs to not proc the bubble

Gnortranermara

OMG, a real-life "nerf Templar" thread? Well, it was cute for like three seconds, but stop.

Templar has been the worst or second worst in every category (DPS, mobility, burst, sustain, class ulti, CC, passives... everything except heals, of course) for ages. Now we're finally closer to the middle of the pack. It's about time!.

Look, I don't want to be in the crosshairs because some know-nothing took a brain-poo on the forums. Data or GTFO.

dodgehopper_ESO

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

OMG, a real-life "nerf Templar" thread? Well, it was cute for like three seconds, but stop.

Templar has been the worst or second worst in every category (DPS, mobility, burst, sustain, class ulti, CC, passives... everything except heals, of course) for ages. Now we're finally closer to the middle of the pack. It's about time!.

Look, I don't want to be in the crosshairs because some know-nothing took a brain-poo on the forums. Data or GTFO.

I don't think Templar leads on heals any more either. I know quite a few people who have migrated to other methods of healing (Like Warden).

Lord-Otto

CyrusArya wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

I'll say this much.
Templars are inherently more tanky. These days, it feels like tanks can dish out almost as much damage as damage-oriented builds. Of course, it's not 100% on par, but 85% - and that is enough if the weak damage build is distracted for a second. Whereas the other way around, tanky builds can easily afford a mistake or two without consequences. The scales aren't tipped right, and that is what Templars benefit from.

As a whole, the Dragonknight and Warden class are both significantly tankier than Templar. And again, I know this isn’t directed towards Stamplar, i.e the stam spec with the weakest healing of them all. So I’ll reiterate when it comes to Magplar that if you actually build to have damage, you won’t be exceptionally tanky and vice versa. Magplar “tankiness” is an illusion. Being able to bounce back constantly to full looks very hardy on the surface until you realize how one dimensional, binary, and completely reactive the class’ defensive design is. Which isn’t an issue if you’re a tanky heal bot, but isnt very forgiving at all if you’re a light armor damage spec.

So no, Templar doesn’t benefit from the dynamic you describe. Basically no Light/Medium Armor damage spec does. You know what does abuse disproportionate amounts of damage relative to their tankiness? Heavy armor stam builds, as they have for years. Magplar, and no magicka class, is in the same ball park when it comes to this regard as heavy stam.

The healing and purging DOES make them tanky. As I said, when you build with defense in mind, gameplay gets super forgiving for Temps. I wasn't talking a glass cannon Templar.

Minno

Drdeath20 wrote: »

LeifErickson wrote: »

OMG finally i can agree with a post!! Tempars are waaay to good all they due is press 1 button to full and i have to start my hole rotation over agan!! So annnoying!!! Also i apply all my dots that take forever too do and they press 1 button and i have to start all over. also they can tank 1435 people like its noting no other class can doo that!! And they just press that on1 beam skill and you are insta dead even from 200 yards away! I cant believe people are defending this class in this thread write now omg im done with this community

OP seems like u r the only reasonable one left i gave u a agree keep fioghing the good fight!!!

Press 1 button?

Lets go over your thought process.

You apply all your DoTs and the templars presses 1 button and is back to full health. Im assuming you are referring to BoL/HtD.

Well the templar still has all the DoTs applied and you do not have to restart your rotation.

Or do you mean cleansing ritual which removes 5 negative effects but then the templar is still at low health.

Or what your really trying to say is that a templar does what every other class does (purge then heal) but to a degree better.

Ill admit that templars are better than decent all around but not OP.

you missed out on the sarcasm lol.

CyrusArya

Lord-Otto wrote: »

The healing and purging DOES make them tanky. As I said, when you build with defense in mind, gameplay gets super forgiving for Temps. I wasn't talking a glass cannon Templar.

Survivability=!Tankiness. It’s an important distinction I can elaborate on if I need to. Sure, magplars can be survivable if played right. Any and every class can do the same with the tools at their disposal. As the least mobile class in the game with no proactive defenses in the way of wings/ward/cloak/shimmer/HoTs, Templar absolutely should have some strong methods of defending and recovering from damage.

Still, your assertion that defense intensive magplars have high damage is incorrect. If you invest too much into mitigation and defenses as a magplar your damage will be severely lacking.

Lord-Otto

CyrusArya wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

The healing and purging DOES make them tanky. As I said, when you build with defense in mind, gameplay gets super forgiving for Temps. I wasn't talking a glass cannon Templar.

Survivability=!Tankiness. It’s an important distinction I can elaborate on if I need to. Sure, magplars can be survivable if played right. Any and every class can do the same with the tools at their disposal. As the least mobile class in the game with no proactive defenses in the way of wings/ward/cloak/shimmer/HoTs, Templar absolutely should have some strong methods of defending and recovering from damage.

Still, your assertion that defense intensive magplars have high damage is incorrect. If you invest too much into mitigation and defenses as a magplar your damage will be severely lacking.

Arguing semantics here. I still stand by my point. A PotL with ultimate crit can be all that's needed to take down a fragile damage dealer. Whereas the damage dealer has to do a lot to overcome the healing and having negative effects just purged off. Building defense isn't very difficult, IMO.

CyrusArya

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Arguing semantics here. I still stand by my point. A PotL with ultimate crit can be all that's needed to take down a fragile damage dealer. Whereas the damage dealer has to do a lot to overcome the healing and having negative effects just purged off. Building defense isn't very difficult, IMO.

Really would depend on the players and builds in question. Do you have any experience playing a light armor damage magplar? The damage can be phenomenal but comes at a cost. My point is, while it can be strong it’s not unbalanced relative to other powerful builds in the game. Class balance rn is quite phenomenal outside of sorc which kind of underperforms. If I recall correctly, you were one of the players who would defend sorc when it was good from people making similar nerf threads. “Too much damage while being too tanky”. Do you remember the rhetoric you’d use to counter those claims? Do you see where mindless QQ got your class? And if so is the irony lost on you?

Funny how the tone changes when another class is finally doing well as a damage dealer after years of being mediocre. For what it’s worth, light armor damage magplar was and still is harder to play than sorc ever was in any patch prior to this one. Coming from someone with extensive experience in both. And imo it still is currently harder to play, but also more effective at securing kills in a well rounded build.

Ruckly

I think people should play Icewind Dale and get an idea how fighters/clerics/rogues/mages/druids work.

I don't know where all this supposed magicka templar damage is coming from. I didn't know a light armor templar was even playable in cyrodill. They have no overheals(shields), mobility skills(Shadow Image, Bolt Escape, Nature's Grasp), magicka dodges(cloak), projectile reflects(Reflective Scales). They get two maybe three dodge rolls.

The only real damage that might come from a heavy armor magicka templar is Soul Assault/Shatter Soul. But that is easy to block and it might steal someones VD proc even if you do get the kill. Dark flare hits hard but if you are in heavy you won't have the sustain of a medium armor sniper and thus it isn't spammable like snipe. In alliance war I'm not seeing an alpha damage heavy armor magicka templar.

Iskras

CyrusArya wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Arguing semantics here. I still stand by my point. A PotL with ultimate crit can be all that's needed to take down a fragile damage dealer. Whereas the damage dealer has to do a lot to overcome the healing and having negative effects just purged off. Building defense isn't very difficult, IMO.

Really would depend on the players and builds in question. Do you have any experience playing a light armor damage magplar? The damage can be phenomenal but comes at a cost. My point is, while it can be strong it’s not unbalanced relative to other powerful builds in the game. Class balance rn is quite phenomenal outside of sorc which kind of underperforms. If I recall correctly, you were one of the players who would defend sorc when it was good from people making similar nerf threads. “Too much damage while being too tanky”. Do you remember the rhetoric you’d use to counter those claims? Do you see where mindless QQ got your class? And if so is the irony lost on you?

Funny how the tone changes when another class is finally doing well as a damage dealer after years of being mediocre. For what it’s worth, light armor damage magplar was and still is harder to play than sorc ever was in any patch prior to this one. Coming from someone with extensive experience in both. And imo it still is currently harder to play, but also more effective at securing kills in a well rounded build.

have a preference distance to use puncture? Sometimes it seems that the greater the distance, the greater the radius of 'puncturing', the greater the DMG. I have observed this. Is it confirmed?

MuckyBums

Everyone on Xbox one is a Templar. You run into zergs if them. I play lots of different characters. And they are by far the tankiest. Most run mist form. So they get there stam back. I take it half the posts are Templars 🤣

Skander

Nerf argonian



Templar is fine.

NBrookus

Ruckly wrote: »

I don't know where all this supposed magicka templar damage is coming from. I didn't know a light armor templar was even playable in cyrodill. They have no overheals(shields), mobility skills(Shadow Image, Bolt Escape, Nature's Grasp), magicka dodges(cloak), projectile reflects(Reflective Scales). They get two maybe three dodge rolls.

LA magplar is very viable. Between set and trait choices like protective, you can be reasonably durable in light armor. Total Dark relieves pressure (especially ranged) and self-heals help recouperate from not quite successful ganks and other burst damage. A well-rounded build doesn't have enough burst to take out a tank solo nor is tanky enough to survive a well-executed gank, but does enough damage to kill in most situations and has good group utility in groups of all sizes. That's very balanced. Tank, heal, damage: pick two.

Lord-Otto

CyrusArya wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Arguing semantics here. I still stand by my point. A PotL with ultimate crit can be all that's needed to take down a fragile damage dealer. Whereas the damage dealer has to do a lot to overcome the healing and having negative effects just purged off. Building defense isn't very difficult, IMO.

Really would depend on the players and builds in question. Do you have any experience playing a light armor damage magplar? The damage can be phenomenal but comes at a cost. My point is, while it can be strong it’s not unbalanced relative to other powerful builds in the game. Class balance rn is quite phenomenal outside of sorc which kind of underperforms. If I recall correctly, you were one of the players who would defend sorc when it was good from people making similar nerf threads. “Too much damage while being too tanky”. Do you remember the rhetoric you’d use to counter those claims? Do you see where mindless QQ got your class? And if so is the irony lost on you?

Funny how the tone changes when another class is finally doing well as a damage dealer after years of being mediocre. For what it’s worth, light armor damage magplar was and still is harder to play than sorc ever was in any patch prior to this one. Coming from someone with extensive experience in both. And imo it still is currently harder to play, but also more effective at securing kills in a well rounded build.

My argument regarding sorcs back then was how they could easily evaporate against multiple opponents, single good meta opponents, and if something slips up for a second and shields drop. This is still more or less true. However, sorcs took a big hit to damage, utility... Ah, you know the drill.

I'm under the impression you're misunderstanding me a bit here. You're getting suspicously defensive here (I assume you main a Temp now?) and are holding an opera here just to not get Temps nerfed. I, I didn't ask for a Temp nerf per se. You see, I regard defensive builds as a whole braindead easy these days. It's a result of continuous, years even, nerfing to damage builds. It started with hard CP caps, followed by soft CP caps, introduction of very powerful defensive sets, resource cuts, and so on. While this was actually partially aimed at defensive builds like permablockers, it lead to this weird situation we have now, where exploiting zergs, bursts, bleeds, oblivion and so on is super viable on defensive builds, whereas naturally offensive ones expose themselves too much for little benefit. We even get a sledge hammer to the face with shield hp cap, forcing us to give up even more damage.

THIS is what I mean. Everytime I give Cyro a chance these days, I'm just bored to death of wailing on my opponent for hours to no avail. But get caught by a couple incoming enemy reinforcements and it's GG. There's no fun to be had. I fall asleep spreading my damage across zergs and seeing it healed or my Curse purged. I lose interest in even trying in a 1v1 against your typical 27k+ hp "tank/survivalist" after repeating my boring rotation for ten minutes. I stop bothering trying to outmaneuver enemy groups with my small group just for them to go super mutant tanky turtle, wait for reinforcements to pile up on us and then just ult dump and kill us with numbers.

This is not a Templar problem, it's a problem of the game having been watered down so much over the years. Templars and other inherently tanky classes just benefit from this. But I don't want them nerfed. I want honest damage increased. No BS proc set damage or overpowered bleeds or damage that goes through your shields. I'm talking good old skills, DoTs, damage sets, that kind of stuff. Make Cyrodiil fun again!

evoniee

yeha right, templar, sorc, warden are decent class whereas dk and nb are dead for pvp.
abusing game balance and trying to convice people everything is fine. Pepega

Minno

MuckyBums wrote: »

Everyone on Xbox one is a Templar. You run into zergs if them. I play lots of different characters. And they are by far the tankiest. Most run mist form. So they get there stam back. I take it half the posts are Templars 🤣

They were templars before this patch though. And that's because you don't need to target sometime with your spamable so it's easier on your hands with the controller lol.

evoniee wrote: »

yeha right, templar, sorc, warden are decent class whereas dk and nb are dead for pvp.
abusing game balance and trying to convice people everything is fine. Pepega

Post that build/video. Curious on your gameplay against a Templar

technohic

I swear I am never quite sure what im reading half the time on the forums. Its like I'm playing a different game.

JackDaniell

Buff Warlock

Anrose

All of the “problems” OP listed as being wrong with templars didn’t change when templars were buffed. Sounds like someone needs to spend less time complaining about templars and more time learning to beat templars.

Templars are finally in a decent place again. Stahp with the nerf requests.

Haashhtaag

The CP passive that guarantees a crit carries magplars with their BoL spam.

Minno

Haashhtaag wrote: »

The CP passive that guarantees a crit carries magplars with their BoL spam.

And Elfborn CP. 1.8 modifer on a BOL heal pretty much gives tooltip heal before mending kicks in.

Minno

Anrose wrote: »

All of the “problems” OP listed as being wrong with templars didn’t change when templars were buffed. Sounds like someone needs to spend less time complaining about templars and more time learning to beat templars.

Templars are finally in a decent place again. Stahp with the nerf requests.

Gotta love templar nerf threads. They don't even try to get better after years of playing against less optimized templar loadouts teaching them bad habits lol.