Templars PvP - Detailed Guide, Suggestions, Advice, etc. - Elsweyr

Kartalin

10 or 11k stamina is definitely not enough for any pvp, bgs or otherwise. Need at least 13 or 14k in non cp situations and 17k in cp. The only exception is if you're in an organized group and you have guild mate(s) running purge to keep the annoying roots off of you and are also using RAT/mist.

Iskiab

Kartalin wrote: »

10 or 11k stamina is definitely not enough for any pvp, bgs or otherwise. Need at least 13 or 14k in non cp situations and 17k in cp. The only exception is if you're in an organized group and you have guild mate(s) running purge to keep the annoying roots off of you and are also using RAT/mist.

That’s how I typically build as well. I’ve been doing BGs but am only rank 14 or so, so I’m just starting out.

As a magblade I’d never build with such low stam, but I’ve noticed I’m doing better with Mara then tri-stat as a magplar.

I think it’s because I’m being so aggressive. I run a quick burst combo and hit pretty hard, it forces people to always be on the defensive. Almost no one stuns defensively, they’ll usually try healing and kiting. Against beginner pvpers it’s working well, I might have to change to try-stat once my MMR rank goes up. Right now I’m getting away with it and rely on mist form to line of sight and heal up when I need to.

EtTuBrutus

Kartalin wrote: »

10 or 11k stamina is definitely not enough for any pvp, bgs or otherwise. Need at least 13 or 14k in non cp situations and 17k in cp. The only exception is if you're in an organized group and you have guild mate(s) running purge to keep the annoying roots off of you and are also using RAT/mist.

High elf, bloodspawn, snb alleviates the need for high stam completely.

Masshypnosis

I have tested the whole weekend, my current build: https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=192233
This is running very smooth in open world pvp (cp and no cp). Same for bgs and duels. I have done about 15 duels (all won), several bgs and cyrodill nocp + imperial city cp. You can fight outnumbered, stay alive for a long time and line up your burst. The hardest fight until now was against a stamdk in cp imperial city. He had about 35k life. We fought for 15 minutes and while we fought some random player joined (his faction). I have killed them and then started again to pressure him. Im not a pro player, but you can try this setup.

BNOC

Kartalin wrote: »

10 or 11k stamina is definitely not enough for any pvp, bgs or otherwise. Need at least 13 or 14k in non cp situations and 17k in cp. The only exception is if you're in an organized group and you have guild mate(s) running purge to keep the annoying roots off of you and are also using RAT/mist.

I run only RAT with about 10-11k in no-CP - no additional stam recov, no snb, no mists, no defensive ults and have absolutely no issues whatsoever, just position properly and play to your strengths.

Masshypnosis wrote: »

I have tested the whole weekend, my current build: https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=192233
This is running very smooth in open world pvp (cp and no cp). Same for bgs and duels. I have done about 15 duels (all won), several bgs and cyrodill nocp + imperial city cp. You can fight outnumbered, stay alive for a long time and line up your burst. The hardest fight until now was against a stamdk in cp imperial city. He had about 35k life. We fought for 15 minutes and while we fought some random player joined (his faction). I have killed them and then started again to pressure him. Im not a pro player, but you can try this setup.

Just curious as it seems like a fairly defensive setup that implies you allow pressure, how're you getting kills against good players? Surely not just with POTL,Sweeps and ult with that effective spell damage?

Iskiab

BNOC wrote: »

Kartalin wrote: »

10 or 11k stamina is definitely not enough for any pvp, bgs or otherwise. Need at least 13 or 14k in non cp situations and 17k in cp. The only exception is if you're in an organized group and you have guild mate(s) running purge to keep the annoying roots off of you and are also using RAT/mist.

I run only RAT with about 10-11k in no-CP - no additional stam recov, no snb, no mists, no defensive ults and have absolutely no issues whatsoever, just position properly and play to your strengths.

Masshypnosis wrote: »

I have tested the whole weekend, my current build: https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=192233
This is running very smooth in open world pvp (cp and no cp). Same for bgs and duels. I have done about 15 duels (all won), several bgs and cyrodill nocp + imperial city cp. You can fight outnumbered, stay alive for a long time and line up your burst. The hardest fight until now was against a stamdk in cp imperial city. He had about 35k life. We fought for 15 minutes and while we fought some random player joined (his faction). I have killed them and then started again to pressure him. Im not a pro player, but you can try this setup.

Just curious as it seems like a fairly defensive setup that implies you allow pressure, how're you getting kills against good players? Surely not just with POTL,Sweeps and ult with that effective spell damage?

It looks good to me. It's not so defensive: 5x light vs 5x heavy is the equivalent of wearing another damage set, buffer means it's tankier then it looks, camoflage hunter means minor berserk. I'll have to level up camoflage hunter.

Masshypnosis

Dmg is not a problem at all. Grothdarr procc + burst is really strong. My highest bg this weekend was 1,7 mio dmg with 32-1 kill/death with group support and "camping" the flag. In bg you can tank and kill pretty easy in cp pvp there are some tank builds you cant kill, but they cant kill you . So i just move on. I have fought a 35k+ HP sorc and the time he was going to die... streak, streak shield, heal. Thats just lame and i moved on. There are for sure far better player then me, just saying try it out, this combination is really sweet. The only thing im not sure is switching out arcane for infused. But the huge amount of stamina and reg (magicka + stamina) will save your life. When im playing alone, im going with rapid regeneration instead of radianting regeneration.
Pots i use are health/magicka/stamina and sometimes poisen on mainhand (im not 100% sure if thats better). I have played with mist form but i think its not worth slotting. When you really need it, they zerg you down anyway.
I will capture some gameplay maybe later on youtube, if you wanna see the build in action and i hope you have some advice for me so i can improve my playstyle.

BNOC

Iskiab wrote: »

BNOC wrote: »

Kartalin wrote: »

10 or 11k stamina is definitely not enough for any pvp, bgs or otherwise. Need at least 13 or 14k in non cp situations and 17k in cp. The only exception is if you're in an organized group and you have guild mate(s) running purge to keep the annoying roots off of you and are also using RAT/mist.

I run only RAT with about 10-11k in no-CP - no additional stam recov, no snb, no mists, no defensive ults and have absolutely no issues whatsoever, just position properly and play to your strengths.

Masshypnosis wrote: »

I have tested the whole weekend, my current build: https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=192233
This is running very smooth in open world pvp (cp and no cp). Same for bgs and duels. I have done about 15 duels (all won), several bgs and cyrodill nocp + imperial city cp. You can fight outnumbered, stay alive for a long time and line up your burst. The hardest fight until now was against a stamdk in cp imperial city. He had about 35k life. We fought for 15 minutes and while we fought some random player joined (his faction). I have killed them and then started again to pressure him. Im not a pro player, but you can try this setup.

Just curious as it seems like a fairly defensive setup that implies you allow pressure, how're you getting kills against good players? Surely not just with POTL,Sweeps and ult with that effective spell damage?

It looks good to me. It's not so defensive: 5x light vs 5x heavy is the equivalent of wearing another damage set, buffer means it's tankier then it looks, camoflage hunter means minor berserk. I'll have to level up camoflage hunter.

Yeah, it's not bad at all, I only said that because I BG and duel all day long and this looks like a setup that gets put on it's back bar healing and doesn't last very long on that recovery.

No ele drain for sustain and damage, no backbar defence except swift etc.

It also shows Major Prophecy he's not getting (did I miss it??) if he's using tri-stat potions (which the buffs added would suggest) so it's either one or the other.

It'd be better in my opinion with Ice Staff back and slotting drain instead of the hot for anything away from Cyrodil but in duels and BG's I reckon that's still getting put on the backfoot because I can't see the damage being enough to keep him on the aggressive against a good player.

BNOC

Masshypnosis wrote: »

Dmg is not a problem at all. Grothdarr procc + burst is really strong. My highest bg this weekend was 1,7 mio dmg with 32-1 kill/death with group support and "camping" the flag. In bg you can tank and kill pretty easy in cp pvp there are some tank builds you cant kill, but they cant kill you . So i just move on. I have fought a 35k+ HP sorc and the time he was going to die... streak, streak shield, heal. Thats just lame and i moved on. There are for sure far better player then me, just saying try it out, this combination is really sweet. The only thing im not sure is switching out arcane for infused. But the huge amount of stamina and reg (magicka + stamina) will save your life. When im playing alone, im going with rapid regeneration instead of radianting regeneration.
Pots i use are health/magicka/stamina and sometimes poisen on mainhand (im not 100% sure if thats better). I have played with mist form but i think its not worth slotting. When you really need it, they zerg you down anyway.
I will capture some gameplay maybe later on youtube, if you wanna see the build in action and i hope you have some advice for me so i can improve my playstyle.

Sorry, I didn't even see your reply inbetween! Yeah I'd love to see some gameplay, 1.7M isn't bad damage for a BG to be fair.

What platform are you on?

Iskiab

For those who want to try it I heard shacklebreaker and amber plasm are interchangeable (magblade thread math types). You just have to shuffle stats around a bit with glyphs. It also has the advantage of being able to go heavy chest and med legs/helm.

BNOC

Iskiab wrote: »

For those who want to try it I heard shacklebreaker and amber plasm are interchangeable (magblade thread math types). You just have to shuffle stats around a bit with glyphs. It also has the advantage of being able to go heavy chest and med legs/helm.

Is there an actual spreadsheet working all this out? I tried to write it a while ago but it definitely wasn't right so I scrapped it.
I always had the assumption that the two were very close but I had Shackle on top (so have used it since it came out)

Would be interested to see the comparison and scenarios where each shine.

Edit: Don't worry I found the comments, I thought you meant there was actual theorycrafting around it.

EtTuBrutus

Offensively:
Shackle gives 319 effective spell dmg
Amber gives 233 effective spell dmg and a crit bonus.

Sustain wise:
Shackle gives 129 magicka, 129 stamina, and 2000 max stam.
Amber gives 250 magicka and 250 stamina.

You can reach higher damage with shackle.
You can reach higher main stat sustain with amber. I'd argue shackle is better off stat sustain option.

BNOC

EtTuBrutus wrote: »

Offensively:
Shackle gives 319 effective spell dmg
Amber gives 233 effective spell dmg and a crit bonus.

Sustain wise:
Shackle gives 129 magicka, 129 stamina, and 2000 max stam.
Amber gives 250 magicka and 250 stamina.

You can reach higher damage with shackle.
You can reach higher main stat sustain with amber. I'd argue shackle is better off stat sustain option.

Nice (Y)

It's those extra stats I can't compare, stam reco -> max stam etc. I guess it's situational and playstyle based..

I'll stick with Shackle anyway, nice one.

grannas211

Amberplasm used to have more recovery, then they nerfed it to get people to buy the chapter so they could craft Shackle I mean play the Morrorwind story.

Hexquisite

So how much CP is everyone putting into blessed these days? I have seen recent Templar builds posted that don't put any CP into blessed..But then I know 1vXXers who put points into blessed on every alt they have. I have also heard the gripe "Oh he's crutching on 100 points in Blessed"

Since I have high Spellpower and Crit, I tried zero points into blessed and didn't like it, but also I throw emergency heals to my duo partner, maybe thats why.

EtTuBrutus

Hexquisite wrote: »

So how much CP is everyone putting into blessed these days? I have seen recent Templar builds posted that don't put any CP into blessed..But then I know 1vXXers who put points into blessed on every alt they have. I have also heard the gripe "Oh he's crutching on 100 points in Blessed"

Since I have high Spellpower and Crit, I tried zero points into blessed and didn't like it, but also I throw emergency heals to my duo partner, maybe thats why.

37 points is where i am at i think.

technohic

EtTuBrutus wrote: »

Hexquisite wrote: »

So how much CP is everyone putting into blessed these days? I have seen recent Templar builds posted that don't put any CP into blessed..But then I know 1vXXers who put points into blessed on every alt they have. I have also heard the gripe "Oh he's crutching on 100 points in Blessed"

Since I have high Spellpower and Crit, I tried zero points into blessed and didn't like it, but also I throw emergency heals to my duo partner, maybe thats why.

37 points is where i am at i think.

Im around there. I generally run a pretty balanced spread on what I find useful. Only a couple of things I really dump heavy into

admiralautumn

Has anyone had any success with Hybrid Templar builds? With the recent additions of the crafted sets in Dragonhold, I would believe that there'd be some people out there testing stuff. Just curious overall on the viability of Hybrid. Not entirely sure why Hybrid would be good at all.

BNOC

admiralautumn wrote: »

Has anyone had any success with Hybrid Templar builds? With the recent additions of the crafted sets in Dragonhold, I would believe that there'd be some people out there testing stuff. Just curious overall on the viability of Hybrid. Not entirely sure why Hybrid would be good at all.

I think the only real "hybrid" option involved using a 2H for damage and Forward Momentum but since RAT it's kinda pointless. Not sure anything else is used by Magplar - You get Stamplars running a mix more frequently (some run toppling etc, dno why) but i don't think either would be viable as a whole build.

Akinos

Hexquisite wrote: »

So how much CP is everyone putting into blessed these days? I have seen recent Templar builds posted that don't put any CP into blessed..But then I know 1vXXers who put points into blessed on every alt they have. I have also heard the gripe "Oh he's crutching on 100 points in Blessed"

Since I have high Spellpower and Crit, I tried zero points into blessed and didn't like it, but also I throw emergency heals to my duo partner, maybe thats why.

I've never put points into blessed on any builds on any of my characters. And I can still dead to near full health myself on crits.
Blessed not really needed so long as you have high spell damage / max magicka.

Not for burst heals anyways, but it's okay for smaller heals like rapid regen or whatever.

Kartalin

BNOC wrote: »

You get Stamplars running a mix more frequently (some run toppling etc, dno why)

Well... it gives off balance, and procs Armor of Truth if they're using it. Also it gives them a non-weapon dependent gap closer. That's all I could come up with though.

Iskiab

admiralautumn wrote: »

Has anyone had any success with Hybrid Templar builds? With the recent additions of the crafted sets in Dragonhold, I would believe that there'd be some people out there testing stuff. Just curious overall on the viability of Hybrid. Not entirely sure why Hybrid would be good at all.

Good hybrid classes are ones with off-main stat sustain like DKs, Wardens or Necros.

All I’ve seen that would be good are stamplar healers dipping into magicka heals which would be good.

Iskiab

So I’m having an issue. I made my new templar a Khajit and... Khajit suck. I feel way weaker as a Khajit than Breton.

Does Khajit only suck in no-CP pvp?
Is there a way to make Khajit work as a templar?
What would be the best Templar race? Altmer, Breton or Nord? I used to play a Kerra so am partial to Khajit, but I feel like I’m handicapping myself.

EtTuBrutus

Iskiab wrote: »

So I’m having an issue. I made my new templar a Khajit and... Khajit suck. I feel way weaker as a Khajit than Breton.

Does Khajit only suck in no-CP pvp?
Is there a way to make Khajit work as a templar?
What would be the best Templar race? Altmer, Breton or Nord? I used to play a Kerra so am partial to Khajit, but I feel like I’m handicapping myself.

It's not that big of an impact, but i wouldn't say khajiit is best at anything. You can dominate on any race, play to the strengths.

Hexquisite

Iskiab wrote: »

So I’m having an issue. I made my new templar a Khajit and... Khajit suck. I feel way weaker as a Khajit than Breton.

Does Khajit only suck in no-CP pvp?
Is there a way to make Khajit work as a templar?
What would be the best Templar race? Altmer, Breton or Nord? I used to play a Kerra so am partial to Khajit, but I feel like I’m handicapping myself.

I have a High Elf Magplar and a Breton Magplar, I actually prefer the High Elf.

BaiterOfZergs

I’d only run Khajiit for a crit stamplar which is really good this update considering you can get your crit damage above 50 percent and pol now crits. Combine all that crit with high pen and you’re going to be melting through the average player.

Datolite

Hexquisite wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

So I’m having an issue. I made my new templar a Khajit and... Khajit suck. I feel way weaker as a Khajit than Breton.

Does Khajit only suck in no-CP pvp?
Is there a way to make Khajit work as a templar?
What would be the best Templar race? Altmer, Breton or Nord? I used to play a Kerra so am partial to Khajit, but I feel like I’m handicapping myself.

I have a High Elf Magplar and a Breton Magplar, I actually prefer the High Elf.

If you are a brawler magplar, I would recommend Imperial race for CP campaign. With the tri-stat clockwork drink and enchants and BTB my stats are pretty formidable: 30k health, 33k mag, 20k stam and there is lots of room on jewelry and 2nd set for spell damage. I run NMA and Groth

Iskiab

Datolite wrote: »

Hexquisite wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

So I’m having an issue. I made my new templar a Khajit and... Khajit suck. I feel way weaker as a Khajit than Breton.

Does Khajit only suck in no-CP pvp?
Is there a way to make Khajit work as a templar?
What would be the best Templar race? Altmer, Breton or Nord? I used to play a Kerra so am partial to Khajit, but I feel like I’m handicapping myself.

I have a High Elf Magplar and a Breton Magplar, I actually prefer the High Elf.

If you are a brawler magplar, I would recommend Imperial race for CP campaign. With the tri-stat clockwork drink and enchants and BTB my stats are pretty formidable: 30k health, 33k mag, 20k stam and there is lots of room on jewelry and 2nd set for spell damage. I run NMA and Groth

Hum, I never considered Imperial. I like doing BGs as well, so far Altmer is working well. I wouldn't run this in cyrodiil I think, but for BGs I've gone with this:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=189573

I don't know if I'd say I'm a brawler, moreso hybrid healing and darting in for burst when needed maybe? A style I got used to on my magblade.

Burst combo: Purifying Light - Dark Flare - Toppling - Sweeps spam.... in a perfect world. Usually it's harder to pull off in a BG and lots of stuff gets dodged. Dark Flare is great in BGs though, especially against premades and groups who stay tight. My jewellery is infused but arcane would likely be better, I just don't think it makes enough of a difference to matter so haven't transmuted them back.

EtTuBrutus

Im surprised so many people have dropped total dark. The heal was hardly nerfed, and the 60% snare is our best snare now.

Kartalin

I've kept total dark but dropped purifying light. With the heal nerfed it's not as useful in melee builds, and with the damage nerfed (in a way) it's not as strong from range. Might still be good on a range build but rather have the knock back from javelin instead. At least in a melee build I have Toppling so I could even work back in Radiant? Seems like forever since I used it lol.

Still considering replacing Reflective Light with Inner Light, but if RL is up then it still applies when I bar swap and heal etc right?

Melee build: NMA and Bright Throat, front bar is Sweeps, Toppling, Reflective Light, Living Dark, Solar Barrage, Crescent

Ranged build: NMA and Torugs, front bar is Crushing shock, Ele drain, Reflective Light, Living Dark, Javelin, Meteor

Previously I've ran Spinners (w/willpower resto) instead of NMA for ranged and Alfiq instead of NMA for Melee, neither is a bad alternative from my experience.

Back bar is standard, RAT, HtD, Ritual, Focus, Degeneration, Life Giver. I like Degen back bar so I can swap back and re-proc the weapon damage enchant every so often.

Monster set: either Blood spawn or double armor buffs from 1 piece sets (Lord Warden, Chudan, Pirate Skelly)

Melee seems better for deathmatches and chaosball, the ranged build seems better in other formats.