Templars PvP - Detailed Guide, Suggestions, Advice, etc. - Elsweyr

EtTuBrutus · May 2019

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Gotta say...Stamplar is lost. Even while running fortified brass I'm getting wrecked by StamDKs all day. Only way to do any decent damage is DB or Dswing...so sad...jabs dont even connect in high lag and PotL doesnt even go off when I press skill.
ZOS really needs to address this.

Even without lag; jabs on a speedy character who knows to just go through you is unreliable. Im not sure if stamplar is that bad or if it is just me at times but sometimes I feel like I am doing really well, and others it feels like I just can't win; but I do know the nerf on empowering sweeps will hurt my survivability even if I slot the psyjic ultimate back bar.We're losing a defense on stamplar because magplar has enough defensive ultimates. Thats screwed up.

I am currently running BS, Fortified Brass, BP - 2H/Bow (Defending) with Psyjic Ult on BB and STILL get blasted....Generally my rotation is HA PotL PI, swap, Crit Charge, Jabs, DSwing, Jabs, DB, Execute (If previous rotation CAN get them below 50% - laughable at best!)

I don't know...I have tried SOOOO many different gear combos, weapon combos that it's just not even fun anymore. Anything I do feels so underwhelming. Even fighting someone in Light Armor without shields up is a pitiful attempt at best.

Tooltip on Jabs is 4.6K fully buffed. Weapon DMG fully buffed is about 4.2K (With current setup above), Physical Pen is approx. 8K, Crit Chance is about 47%.

Rally BARELY gives heals at full duration because well, defile...Vigor is a joke and high cost. Cleanse is worthless because immediately after using up your 4K Magicka all debuffs are reapplied instantly (Sometimes I am NO WHERE NEAR A DK and still end up with ALL THEIR DOTS on me. Didn't know they had a 20m range.... )

I am convinced there is NO hope with Stamplar, let alone Magplar and I should hop on the Sorc bandwagon - Just don't enjoy its playstyle...but no other option IMO - Thank you ZOS for allowing me "the choice to play how I want" by forcing me to use a different class to be competitive still.

Idk man, that combo can shred ppl. My stamplar is 2h bow and i potl, psn inject, java, jabs x2, dbos, potl explosion execute pretty well. Ravager front bar, masters bow back bar, bp, tk, 2x protective.

Jabbs_Giggity · May 2019

EtTuBrutus wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Gotta say...Stamplar is lost. Even while running fortified brass I'm getting wrecked by StamDKs all day. Only way to do any decent damage is DB or Dswing...so sad...jabs dont even connect in high lag and PotL doesnt even go off when I press skill.
ZOS really needs to address this.

Even without lag; jabs on a speedy character who knows to just go through you is unreliable. Im not sure if stamplar is that bad or if it is just me at times but sometimes I feel like I am doing really well, and others it feels like I just can't win; but I do know the nerf on empowering sweeps will hurt my survivability even if I slot the psyjic ultimate back bar.We're losing a defense on stamplar because magplar has enough defensive ultimates. Thats screwed up.

I am currently running BS, Fortified Brass, BP - 2H/Bow (Defending) with Psyjic Ult on BB and STILL get blasted....Generally my rotation is HA PotL PI, swap, Crit Charge, Jabs, DSwing, Jabs, DB, Execute (If previous rotation CAN get them below 50% - laughable at best!)

I don't know...I have tried SOOOO many different gear combos, weapon combos that it's just not even fun anymore. Anything I do feels so underwhelming. Even fighting someone in Light Armor without shields up is a pitiful attempt at best.

Tooltip on Jabs is 4.6K fully buffed. Weapon DMG fully buffed is about 4.2K (With current setup above), Physical Pen is approx. 8K, Crit Chance is about 47%.

Rally BARELY gives heals at full duration because well, defile...Vigor is a joke and high cost. Cleanse is worthless because immediately after using up your 4K Magicka all debuffs are reapplied instantly (Sometimes I am NO WHERE NEAR A DK and still end up with ALL THEIR DOTS on me. Didn't know they had a 20m range.... )

I am convinced there is NO hope with Stamplar, let alone Magplar and I should hop on the Sorc bandwagon - Just don't enjoy its playstyle...but no other option IMO - Thank you ZOS for allowing me "the choice to play how I want" by forcing me to use a different class to be competitive still.

Idk man, that combo can shred ppl. My stamplar is 2h bow and i potl, psn inject, java, jabs x2, dbos, potl explosion execute pretty well. Ravager front bar, masters bow back bar, bp, tk, 2x protective.

Maybe playing against newbies. I have been playing Stamplar for a long time and I can honeslty say I have seen the decline over the patches since Morrowind in both defense and offense. I can land a DSwing that shows a damage tooltip overhead of 8K, but the other player's health bar shows only maybe 2k taken off...It's like anything that I do is just a tickle war!

Aside from other classes being handed insane buffs to make them "Viable healers" or "Can perform all roles", Templars have lost all identity and can no longer perfom ANY role competitively anymore.

Another huge issue with PVP is the lack of balance for building Tanky over Bursty, or Bursty over Healing. It is REDICULOUS that EVERY other class can perform ALL THREE of those roles effectively at the same time, but Templars cannot.

Mr_Nobody · May 2019

The only way you can kill a petsorc on a stamplar is if:

1) Pet sorc is ultrabad
2) Pet sorc crashed/went afk

there is and should be no way for you to kill a pet sorc on a stamplar.

Neoauspex · May 2019

Mr_Nobody wrote: »

The only way you can kill a petsorc on a stamplar is if:

1) Pet sorc is ultrabad
2) Pet sorc crashed/went afk

there is and should be no way for you to kill a pet sorc on a stamplar.

I wrote about this on another thread; killing the pet should be the counter to this build it just isn't because they can streak away/resummon without any fear of being interrupted. Maybe the summon needs a longer cast time, but it's the combination with sorc mobility (and infinite proactive defense) that makes these fights a wash at best.

The new toppling charge won't interrupt anymore if the target has CC immunity, right? I'll probably slot that next patch over Eclipse, but it still won't be a good counter to pet sorcs (sorry shifted to magplar thoughts).

EtTuBrutus · May 2019

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

EtTuBrutus wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Gotta say...Stamplar is lost. Even while running fortified brass I'm getting wrecked by StamDKs all day. Only way to do any decent damage is DB or Dswing...so sad...jabs dont even connect in high lag and PotL doesnt even go off when I press skill.
ZOS really needs to address this.

Even without lag; jabs on a speedy character who knows to just go through you is unreliable. Im not sure if stamplar is that bad or if it is just me at times but sometimes I feel like I am doing really well, and others it feels like I just can't win; but I do know the nerf on empowering sweeps will hurt my survivability even if I slot the psyjic ultimate back bar.We're losing a defense on stamplar because magplar has enough defensive ultimates. Thats screwed up.

I am currently running BS, Fortified Brass, BP - 2H/Bow (Defending) with Psyjic Ult on BB and STILL get blasted....Generally my rotation is HA PotL PI, swap, Crit Charge, Jabs, DSwing, Jabs, DB, Execute (If previous rotation CAN get them below 50% - laughable at best!)

I don't know...I have tried SOOOO many different gear combos, weapon combos that it's just not even fun anymore. Anything I do feels so underwhelming. Even fighting someone in Light Armor without shields up is a pitiful attempt at best.

Tooltip on Jabs is 4.6K fully buffed. Weapon DMG fully buffed is about 4.2K (With current setup above), Physical Pen is approx. 8K, Crit Chance is about 47%.

Rally BARELY gives heals at full duration because well, defile...Vigor is a joke and high cost. Cleanse is worthless because immediately after using up your 4K Magicka all debuffs are reapplied instantly (Sometimes I am NO WHERE NEAR A DK and still end up with ALL THEIR DOTS on me. Didn't know they had a 20m range.... )

I am convinced there is NO hope with Stamplar, let alone Magplar and I should hop on the Sorc bandwagon - Just don't enjoy its playstyle...but no other option IMO - Thank you ZOS for allowing me "the choice to play how I want" by forcing me to use a different class to be competitive still.

Idk man, that combo can shred ppl. My stamplar is 2h bow and i potl, psn inject, java, jabs x2, dbos, potl explosion execute pretty well. Ravager front bar, masters bow back bar, bp, tk, 2x protective.

Maybe playing against newbies. I have been playing Stamplar for a long time and I can honeslty say I have seen the decline over the patches since Morrowind in both defense and offense. I can land a DSwing that shows a damage tooltip overhead of 8K, but the other player's health bar shows only maybe 2k taken off...It's like anything that I do is just a tickle war!

Aside from other classes being handed insane buffs to make them "Viable healers" or "Can perform all roles", Templars have lost all identity and can no longer perfom ANY role competitively anymore.

Another huge issue with PVP is the lack of balance for building Tanky over Bursty, or Bursty over Healing. It is REDICULOUS that EVERY other class can perform ALL THREE of those roles effectively at the same time, but Templars cannot.

Idk, my build has insanely more dmg than yours does, but i do tend to fight less experienced players on this character as im normally a tower monkey in cyro and i rarely do bgs on this character..

Always plan on your actual damage to be 1/3 or 1/4th of actual tooltips. An 8k dizzy is nothing to write home about. It sounds like my javalin hits harder, it's instant, can be used as ranged, procs burning light for more burst, procs minor protection.

But im not great on stamplar, it's mainly when outnumered i can't heal without los.

Jabbs_Giggity · May 2019

EtTuBrutus wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

EtTuBrutus wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Gotta say...Stamplar is lost. Even while running fortified brass I'm getting wrecked by StamDKs all day. Only way to do any decent damage is DB or Dswing...so sad...jabs dont even connect in high lag and PotL doesnt even go off when I press skill.
ZOS really needs to address this.

Even without lag; jabs on a speedy character who knows to just go through you is unreliable. Im not sure if stamplar is that bad or if it is just me at times but sometimes I feel like I am doing really well, and others it feels like I just can't win; but I do know the nerf on empowering sweeps will hurt my survivability even if I slot the psyjic ultimate back bar.We're losing a defense on stamplar because magplar has enough defensive ultimates. Thats screwed up.

I am currently running BS, Fortified Brass, BP - 2H/Bow (Defending) with Psyjic Ult on BB and STILL get blasted....Generally my rotation is HA PotL PI, swap, Crit Charge, Jabs, DSwing, Jabs, DB, Execute (If previous rotation CAN get them below 50% - laughable at best!)

I don't know...I have tried SOOOO many different gear combos, weapon combos that it's just not even fun anymore. Anything I do feels so underwhelming. Even fighting someone in Light Armor without shields up is a pitiful attempt at best.

Tooltip on Jabs is 4.6K fully buffed. Weapon DMG fully buffed is about 4.2K (With current setup above), Physical Pen is approx. 8K, Crit Chance is about 47%.

Rally BARELY gives heals at full duration because well, defile...Vigor is a joke and high cost. Cleanse is worthless because immediately after using up your 4K Magicka all debuffs are reapplied instantly (Sometimes I am NO WHERE NEAR A DK and still end up with ALL THEIR DOTS on me. Didn't know they had a 20m range.... )

I am convinced there is NO hope with Stamplar, let alone Magplar and I should hop on the Sorc bandwagon - Just don't enjoy its playstyle...but no other option IMO - Thank you ZOS for allowing me "the choice to play how I want" by forcing me to use a different class to be competitive still.

Idk man, that combo can shred ppl. My stamplar is 2h bow and i potl, psn inject, java, jabs x2, dbos, potl explosion execute pretty well. Ravager front bar, masters bow back bar, bp, tk, 2x protective.

Maybe playing against newbies. I have been playing Stamplar for a long time and I can honeslty say I have seen the decline over the patches since Morrowind in both defense and offense. I can land a DSwing that shows a damage tooltip overhead of 8K, but the other player's health bar shows only maybe 2k taken off...It's like anything that I do is just a tickle war!

Aside from other classes being handed insane buffs to make them "Viable healers" or "Can perform all roles", Templars have lost all identity and can no longer perfom ANY role competitively anymore.

Another huge issue with PVP is the lack of balance for building Tanky over Bursty, or Bursty over Healing. It is REDICULOUS that EVERY other class can perform ALL THREE of those roles effectively at the same time, but Templars cannot.

Idk, my build has insanely more dmg than yours does, but i do tend to fight less experienced players on this character as im normally a tower monkey in cyro and i rarely do bgs on this character..

Always plan on your actual damage to be 1/3 or 1/4th of actual tooltips. An 8k dizzy is nothing to write home about. It sounds like my javalin hits harder, it's instant, can be used as ranged, procs burning light for more burst, procs minor protection.

But im not great on stamplar, it's mainly when outnumered i can't heal without los.

Wasn't the point of what I was saying about Dswing. I was not referencing the Skill Tooltip, I was referencing the damage tooltip when hitting another player in comparison to their actual health bar. Not sure where the desynch is landing 8K damage, but health only drains 2K (I don't know of any 6K HoTs....)

Waffennacht · May 2019

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

EtTuBrutus wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

EtTuBrutus wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Gotta say...Stamplar is lost. Even while running fortified brass I'm getting wrecked by StamDKs all day. Only way to do any decent damage is DB or Dswing...so sad...jabs dont even connect in high lag and PotL doesnt even go off when I press skill.
ZOS really needs to address this.

Even without lag; jabs on a speedy character who knows to just go through you is unreliable. Im not sure if stamplar is that bad or if it is just me at times but sometimes I feel like I am doing really well, and others it feels like I just can't win; but I do know the nerf on empowering sweeps will hurt my survivability even if I slot the psyjic ultimate back bar.We're losing a defense on stamplar because magplar has enough defensive ultimates. Thats screwed up.

I am currently running BS, Fortified Brass, BP - 2H/Bow (Defending) with Psyjic Ult on BB and STILL get blasted....Generally my rotation is HA PotL PI, swap, Crit Charge, Jabs, DSwing, Jabs, DB, Execute (If previous rotation CAN get them below 50% - laughable at best!)

I don't know...I have tried SOOOO many different gear combos, weapon combos that it's just not even fun anymore. Anything I do feels so underwhelming. Even fighting someone in Light Armor without shields up is a pitiful attempt at best.

Tooltip on Jabs is 4.6K fully buffed. Weapon DMG fully buffed is about 4.2K (With current setup above), Physical Pen is approx. 8K, Crit Chance is about 47%.

Rally BARELY gives heals at full duration because well, defile...Vigor is a joke and high cost. Cleanse is worthless because immediately after using up your 4K Magicka all debuffs are reapplied instantly (Sometimes I am NO WHERE NEAR A DK and still end up with ALL THEIR DOTS on me. Didn't know they had a 20m range.... )

I am convinced there is NO hope with Stamplar, let alone Magplar and I should hop on the Sorc bandwagon - Just don't enjoy its playstyle...but no other option IMO - Thank you ZOS for allowing me "the choice to play how I want" by forcing me to use a different class to be competitive still.

Idk man, that combo can shred ppl. My stamplar is 2h bow and i potl, psn inject, java, jabs x2, dbos, potl explosion execute pretty well. Ravager front bar, masters bow back bar, bp, tk, 2x protective.

Maybe playing against newbies. I have been playing Stamplar for a long time and I can honeslty say I have seen the decline over the patches since Morrowind in both defense and offense. I can land a DSwing that shows a damage tooltip overhead of 8K, but the other player's health bar shows only maybe 2k taken off...It's like anything that I do is just a tickle war!

Aside from other classes being handed insane buffs to make them "Viable healers" or "Can perform all roles", Templars have lost all identity and can no longer perfom ANY role competitively anymore.

Another huge issue with PVP is the lack of balance for building Tanky over Bursty, or Bursty over Healing. It is REDICULOUS that EVERY other class can perform ALL THREE of those roles effectively at the same time, but Templars cannot.

Idk, my build has insanely more dmg than yours does, but i do tend to fight less experienced players on this character as im normally a tower monkey in cyro and i rarely do bgs on this character..

Always plan on your actual damage to be 1/3 or 1/4th of actual tooltips. An 8k dizzy is nothing to write home about. It sounds like my javalin hits harder, it's instant, can be used as ranged, procs burning light for more burst, procs minor protection.

But im not great on stamplar, it's mainly when outnumered i can't heal without los.

Wasn't the point of what I was saying about Dswing. I was not referencing the Skill Tooltip, I was referencing the damage tooltip when hitting another player in comparison to their actual health bar. Not sure where the desynch is landing 8K damage, but health only drains 2K (I don't know of any 6K HoTs....)

Let's just say you have a 16k tooltip. Let's say it's BGs (removing CP as an issue)

8k real PvP damage.

How to get to 2k:

That's 25% of the real damage (or 75% reduction) - can be caused by opponent blocking (SnB or frost staff) alone

Can be major protection + 33,000 resistance

Can be something like Cyrodiil's light + swift + protection

Can be combination of these things.

Raw power (I'm getting this ever increasing inclining) is the least efficient way to deal damage

Penetration + Crits seem to be the way to go

Minno · May 2019

Waffennacht wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

EtTuBrutus wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

EtTuBrutus wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Gotta say...Stamplar is lost. Even while running fortified brass I'm getting wrecked by StamDKs all day. Only way to do any decent damage is DB or Dswing...so sad...jabs dont even connect in high lag and PotL doesnt even go off when I press skill.
ZOS really needs to address this.

Even without lag; jabs on a speedy character who knows to just go through you is unreliable. Im not sure if stamplar is that bad or if it is just me at times but sometimes I feel like I am doing really well, and others it feels like I just can't win; but I do know the nerf on empowering sweeps will hurt my survivability even if I slot the psyjic ultimate back bar.We're losing a defense on stamplar because magplar has enough defensive ultimates. Thats screwed up.

I am currently running BS, Fortified Brass, BP - 2H/Bow (Defending) with Psyjic Ult on BB and STILL get blasted....Generally my rotation is HA PotL PI, swap, Crit Charge, Jabs, DSwing, Jabs, DB, Execute (If previous rotation CAN get them below 50% - laughable at best!)

I don't know...I have tried SOOOO many different gear combos, weapon combos that it's just not even fun anymore. Anything I do feels so underwhelming. Even fighting someone in Light Armor without shields up is a pitiful attempt at best.

Tooltip on Jabs is 4.6K fully buffed. Weapon DMG fully buffed is about 4.2K (With current setup above), Physical Pen is approx. 8K, Crit Chance is about 47%.

Rally BARELY gives heals at full duration because well, defile...Vigor is a joke and high cost. Cleanse is worthless because immediately after using up your 4K Magicka all debuffs are reapplied instantly (Sometimes I am NO WHERE NEAR A DK and still end up with ALL THEIR DOTS on me. Didn't know they had a 20m range.... )

I am convinced there is NO hope with Stamplar, let alone Magplar and I should hop on the Sorc bandwagon - Just don't enjoy its playstyle...but no other option IMO - Thank you ZOS for allowing me "the choice to play how I want" by forcing me to use a different class to be competitive still.

Idk man, that combo can shred ppl. My stamplar is 2h bow and i potl, psn inject, java, jabs x2, dbos, potl explosion execute pretty well. Ravager front bar, masters bow back bar, bp, tk, 2x protective.

Maybe playing against newbies. I have been playing Stamplar for a long time and I can honeslty say I have seen the decline over the patches since Morrowind in both defense and offense. I can land a DSwing that shows a damage tooltip overhead of 8K, but the other player's health bar shows only maybe 2k taken off...It's like anything that I do is just a tickle war!

Aside from other classes being handed insane buffs to make them "Viable healers" or "Can perform all roles", Templars have lost all identity and can no longer perfom ANY role competitively anymore.

Another huge issue with PVP is the lack of balance for building Tanky over Bursty, or Bursty over Healing. It is REDICULOUS that EVERY other class can perform ALL THREE of those roles effectively at the same time, but Templars cannot.

Idk, my build has insanely more dmg than yours does, but i do tend to fight less experienced players on this character as im normally a tower monkey in cyro and i rarely do bgs on this character..

Always plan on your actual damage to be 1/3 or 1/4th of actual tooltips. An 8k dizzy is nothing to write home about. It sounds like my javalin hits harder, it's instant, can be used as ranged, procs burning light for more burst, procs minor protection.

But im not great on stamplar, it's mainly when outnumered i can't heal without los.

Wasn't the point of what I was saying about Dswing. I was not referencing the Skill Tooltip, I was referencing the damage tooltip when hitting another player in comparison to their actual health bar. Not sure where the desynch is landing 8K damage, but health only drains 2K (I don't know of any 6K HoTs....)

Let's just say you have a 16k tooltip. Let's say it's BGs (removing CP as an issue)

8k real PvP damage.

How to get to 2k:

That's 25% of the real damage (or 75% reduction) - can be caused by opponent blocking (SnB or frost staff) alone

Can be major protection + 33,000 resistance

Can be something like Cyrodiil's light + swift + protection

Can be combination of these things.

Raw power (I'm getting this ever increasing inclining) is the least efficient way to deal damage

Penetration + Crits seem to be the way to go

It's all relative because you can't just stack one and expect it to do what you need in this heavy meta. 60% crit of a 60% modifier is going to be peanuts if your SD/Max Mag is garbage. Same goes for stacking SD, if you have 30% crit and 50% CHD, your 4.5k jabs tooltip is turning into 2250 before other mitigation and since most at at 50% CHR values in CP, your jabs is going to deal terrible dmg. And then same for penetation, if you have bad crit/bad tooltups, 8%+ dmg bypassing armor is going to be bad if your jabs only hits for 3k lol.

Two ways to circumvent this:
1) get sustain/defense to where you feel good.
2) dump rest into damage

Minimum stats you really should hit on your templar build:
- 40% CHC
- 70% CHD
- 35k max mag (32-32k stam)
- 3.3k SD (4k wd)
- 25k health
- 23k physical resists
- 2k effective main stat regen total (includes things like ele drain, rune, passives, etc.)

How you get there is up to you, and if you aren't at those levels, you need to adjust your builds. The CHC is the most important IMHO because they nerfed the CP passive so ALOT of set combinations drop below the 40% threshold now.

Jabbs_Giggity · May 2019

Waffennacht wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

EtTuBrutus wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

EtTuBrutus wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Gotta say...Stamplar is lost. Even while running fortified brass I'm getting wrecked by StamDKs all day. Only way to do any decent damage is DB or Dswing...so sad...jabs dont even connect in high lag and PotL doesnt even go off when I press skill.
ZOS really needs to address this.

Even without lag; jabs on a speedy character who knows to just go through you is unreliable. Im not sure if stamplar is that bad or if it is just me at times but sometimes I feel like I am doing really well, and others it feels like I just can't win; but I do know the nerf on empowering sweeps will hurt my survivability even if I slot the psyjic ultimate back bar.We're losing a defense on stamplar because magplar has enough defensive ultimates. Thats screwed up.

I am currently running BS, Fortified Brass, BP - 2H/Bow (Defending) with Psyjic Ult on BB and STILL get blasted....Generally my rotation is HA PotL PI, swap, Crit Charge, Jabs, DSwing, Jabs, DB, Execute (If previous rotation CAN get them below 50% - laughable at best!)

I don't know...I have tried SOOOO many different gear combos, weapon combos that it's just not even fun anymore. Anything I do feels so underwhelming. Even fighting someone in Light Armor without shields up is a pitiful attempt at best.

Tooltip on Jabs is 4.6K fully buffed. Weapon DMG fully buffed is about 4.2K (With current setup above), Physical Pen is approx. 8K, Crit Chance is about 47%.

Rally BARELY gives heals at full duration because well, defile...Vigor is a joke and high cost. Cleanse is worthless because immediately after using up your 4K Magicka all debuffs are reapplied instantly (Sometimes I am NO WHERE NEAR A DK and still end up with ALL THEIR DOTS on me. Didn't know they had a 20m range.... )

I am convinced there is NO hope with Stamplar, let alone Magplar and I should hop on the Sorc bandwagon - Just don't enjoy its playstyle...but no other option IMO - Thank you ZOS for allowing me "the choice to play how I want" by forcing me to use a different class to be competitive still.

Idk man, that combo can shred ppl. My stamplar is 2h bow and i potl, psn inject, java, jabs x2, dbos, potl explosion execute pretty well. Ravager front bar, masters bow back bar, bp, tk, 2x protective.

Maybe playing against newbies. I have been playing Stamplar for a long time and I can honeslty say I have seen the decline over the patches since Morrowind in both defense and offense. I can land a DSwing that shows a damage tooltip overhead of 8K, but the other player's health bar shows only maybe 2k taken off...It's like anything that I do is just a tickle war!

Aside from other classes being handed insane buffs to make them "Viable healers" or "Can perform all roles", Templars have lost all identity and can no longer perfom ANY role competitively anymore.

Another huge issue with PVP is the lack of balance for building Tanky over Bursty, or Bursty over Healing. It is REDICULOUS that EVERY other class can perform ALL THREE of those roles effectively at the same time, but Templars cannot.

Idk, my build has insanely more dmg than yours does, but i do tend to fight less experienced players on this character as im normally a tower monkey in cyro and i rarely do bgs on this character..

Always plan on your actual damage to be 1/3 or 1/4th of actual tooltips. An 8k dizzy is nothing to write home about. It sounds like my javalin hits harder, it's instant, can be used as ranged, procs burning light for more burst, procs minor protection.

But im not great on stamplar, it's mainly when outnumered i can't heal without los.

Wasn't the point of what I was saying about Dswing. I was not referencing the Skill Tooltip, I was referencing the damage tooltip when hitting another player in comparison to their actual health bar. Not sure where the desynch is landing 8K damage, but health only drains 2K (I don't know of any 6K HoTs....)

Let's just say you have a 16k tooltip. Let's say it's BGs (removing CP as an issue)

8k real PvP damage.

How to get to 2k:

That's 25% of the real damage (or 75% reduction) - can be caused by opponent blocking (SnB or frost staff) alone

Can be major protection + 33,000 resistance

Can be something like Cyrodiil's light + swift + protection

Can be combination of these things.

Raw power (I'm getting this ever increasing inclining) is the least efficient way to deal damage

Penetration + Crits seem to be the way to go

Fair enough. It's just too bad that building a Stamplar for high crit/high pen means a horrible trade-off of lost defense/mitigation/sustain...

I have tried running all of the following combinations (and then some...) during Wrathstone Live:
**All sets below have been works with Troll King, Blood Spawn, Slimecrawl, even mixed Pirate Skel/Chudan, etc...**
Spriggan/Ravager (5H/2M and 5M/2H)
Spriggan/BP (5M/2H)
NMG/BP (5H/2M and 5M/2H)
Ravager/BP (5H/2M and 5M/2H)
Hundings/Spriggan (5H/2M and 5M/2H)
Hundings/BP (5H/2M and 5M/2H)
Coward's/Spriggan (5M/2H)
I have tried outside the box non-meta sets like Ward of Cyrodiil, Briarheart, Draugr Hulk, Sword-Singer...etc. You get the point.

All of these sets have been combined in either 2H/DW, 2H/Bow, DW/2H, SNB/2H, 2H/SNB, DW/Bow, DW/SNB.

If I build for damage/pen/crit I lose A LOT of defense or sustain - depending on going Medium or Heavy. If I go for Defense/Sustain I lose A LOT of burst that only lets me kill mud crabs.

I am convinced that Stamplar is #RIP come next patch and will not come back unless ZOS addresses this. DoT builds have been given to the DK identity. Burst Damage is reserved for sNB, mobility is for Stamden and Stamsorc. Defense really pretty much is given to all those classes mentioned, except for Templar.

I do not play PC and cannot show combat metrics like @Cinbri can, and I don't record gameplay to upload. I have played console since its launch and have always mained a Templar. The only thing I do in ESO is PVPVPVPVP 100% (Unless I need to grind a set that makes me delve into...*ugh...PVE

So what's your suggestions on this? Am I missing something? Is there a secret formula (outside of player skill and comprehension of PVP tactics/class knowledge) that will allow me to competitively play against the other Classes that ZOS has repeatedly given great tool-kits, or given passives/actives that buff their current tool-kits? DK's and Wardens were given Major Mending - a Buff that only Templars could get. ZOS said Templars and DK's would never get expedition, but gave em to DK's - along with Snare removal/immunity

Templar STILL only class without means of Major Brutality/Sorcery in class kit while all passives require class skills! Even restoring aura mending passive only works on class heals (which is a joke for Stamina templar). Major Protection = RIPped from Templar as well...
Templar used to be a staple for healing. Nope, all other classes received a nice Burst heal ability while ours got cost increase.

Please tell me the way!

technohic · May 2019

Interesting thoughts with crit, raw damage, and pen. I do not run a lot of crit on my stamplar, although jabs gives me a buff. I do like Cyrodiils Ward with Spriggans. I needed that pen and getting some major defile without losing an opportunity cost helps in the war of attrition. What I have to be mindful of is bursty opponents

Jabbs_Giggity · May 2019

Minno wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

EtTuBrutus wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

EtTuBrutus wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Gotta say...Stamplar is lost. Even while running fortified brass I'm getting wrecked by StamDKs all day. Only way to do any decent damage is DB or Dswing...so sad...jabs dont even connect in high lag and PotL doesnt even go off when I press skill.
ZOS really needs to address this.

Even without lag; jabs on a speedy character who knows to just go through you is unreliable. Im not sure if stamplar is that bad or if it is just me at times but sometimes I feel like I am doing really well, and others it feels like I just can't win; but I do know the nerf on empowering sweeps will hurt my survivability even if I slot the psyjic ultimate back bar.We're losing a defense on stamplar because magplar has enough defensive ultimates. Thats screwed up.

I am currently running BS, Fortified Brass, BP - 2H/Bow (Defending) with Psyjic Ult on BB and STILL get blasted....Generally my rotation is HA PotL PI, swap, Crit Charge, Jabs, DSwing, Jabs, DB, Execute (If previous rotation CAN get them below 50% - laughable at best!)

I don't know...I have tried SOOOO many different gear combos, weapon combos that it's just not even fun anymore. Anything I do feels so underwhelming. Even fighting someone in Light Armor without shields up is a pitiful attempt at best.

Tooltip on Jabs is 4.6K fully buffed. Weapon DMG fully buffed is about 4.2K (With current setup above), Physical Pen is approx. 8K, Crit Chance is about 47%.

Rally BARELY gives heals at full duration because well, defile...Vigor is a joke and high cost. Cleanse is worthless because immediately after using up your 4K Magicka all debuffs are reapplied instantly (Sometimes I am NO WHERE NEAR A DK and still end up with ALL THEIR DOTS on me. Didn't know they had a 20m range.... )

I am convinced there is NO hope with Stamplar, let alone Magplar and I should hop on the Sorc bandwagon - Just don't enjoy its playstyle...but no other option IMO - Thank you ZOS for allowing me "the choice to play how I want" by forcing me to use a different class to be competitive still.

Idk man, that combo can shred ppl. My stamplar is 2h bow and i potl, psn inject, java, jabs x2, dbos, potl explosion execute pretty well. Ravager front bar, masters bow back bar, bp, tk, 2x protective.

Maybe playing against newbies. I have been playing Stamplar for a long time and I can honeslty say I have seen the decline over the patches since Morrowind in both defense and offense. I can land a DSwing that shows a damage tooltip overhead of 8K, but the other player's health bar shows only maybe 2k taken off...It's like anything that I do is just a tickle war!

Aside from other classes being handed insane buffs to make them "Viable healers" or "Can perform all roles", Templars have lost all identity and can no longer perfom ANY role competitively anymore.

Another huge issue with PVP is the lack of balance for building Tanky over Bursty, or Bursty over Healing. It is REDICULOUS that EVERY other class can perform ALL THREE of those roles effectively at the same time, but Templars cannot.

Idk, my build has insanely more dmg than yours does, but i do tend to fight less experienced players on this character as im normally a tower monkey in cyro and i rarely do bgs on this character..

Always plan on your actual damage to be 1/3 or 1/4th of actual tooltips. An 8k dizzy is nothing to write home about. It sounds like my javalin hits harder, it's instant, can be used as ranged, procs burning light for more burst, procs minor protection.

But im not great on stamplar, it's mainly when outnumered i can't heal without los.

Wasn't the point of what I was saying about Dswing. I was not referencing the Skill Tooltip, I was referencing the damage tooltip when hitting another player in comparison to their actual health bar. Not sure where the desynch is landing 8K damage, but health only drains 2K (I don't know of any 6K HoTs....)

Let's just say you have a 16k tooltip. Let's say it's BGs (removing CP as an issue)

8k real PvP damage.

How to get to 2k:

That's 25% of the real damage (or 75% reduction) - can be caused by opponent blocking (SnB or frost staff) alone

Can be major protection + 33,000 resistance

Can be something like Cyrodiil's light + swift + protection

Can be combination of these things.

Raw power (I'm getting this ever increasing inclining) is the least efficient way to deal damage

Penetration + Crits seem to be the way to go

It's all relative because you can't just stack one and expect it to do what you need in this heavy meta. 60% crit of a 60% modifier is going to be peanuts if your SD/Max Mag is garbage. Same goes for stacking SD, if you have 30% crit and 50% CHD, your 4.5k jabs tooltip is turning into 2250 before other mitigation and since most at at 50% CHR values in CP, your jabs is going to deal terrible dmg. And then same for penetation, if you have bad crit/bad tooltups, 8%+ dmg bypassing armor is going to be bad if your jabs only hits for 3k lol.

Two ways to circumvent this:
1) get sustain/defense to where you feel good.
2) dump rest into damage

Minimum stats you really should hit on your templar build:
- 40% CHC
- 70% CHD
- 35k max mag (32-32k stam)
- 3.3k SD (4k wd)
- 25k health
- 23k physical resists
- 2k effective main stat regen total (includes things like ele drain, rune, passives, etc.)

How you get there is up to you, and if you aren't at those levels, you need to adjust your builds. The CHC is the most important IMHO because they nerfed the CP passive so ALOT of set combinations drop below the 40% threshold now.

I have all of your suggested stats...

5M/2H
Slimecrawl/Fortified Brass/Bone Pirate - 2H Maul Nirn Gold / DW Axes Nirn-Defending Gold (Also using double dot poisions)
Jewels all infused Weapon DMG, 2 Tri-stats on big pieces, all rest Stamina.
Dubious drink
Current stats:
Health: 24K (In PVP zone)
Stamina: 34K
Magicka: 11K
WD: Self Buff = 4.2K
CHC: 40%
CHD: approx. 70%
Spell Res: 30K (In Rune) 32K backbar
Physical Res: 29K (In Rune) 31K backbar
Crit Res: 3K
Pen: 8K when including Minor Fracture from PotL and 2H Maul

Skills:
2H Bar - Binding, Repent, Rally, PotL, Jabs (DBoS)
DW Bar - Cleanse, Rune, Vigor, Quick Cloak, Blood Craze (Psyjic Ult for def)
Either Tri-Pots or Speed/Immov pots

Edit: Stam regen is 1.9K effective (over 3K when facturing 2H passive, rune and pots)

Waffennacht · May 2019

I went the exact opposite direction I was going in and I am having success:

Khajiit
Templar
Stam

Dubious

Steed Mundus
x3 swift

Impreg
tzogvins
Bal

Bow 2h

Well-fitted out the wazzooo

So automatically get 1.7 crit mod, 1.8 with fully tzogvins

Crit potions, I think my crit chance is a little low without a fully buffed tz but it seems to be good enough.

I'm currently running

Rally, Jav (Stam version obv) backlash, jabs, and executioner with 2h ult
Poison Injection, Snipe, Purge, Rune, Vigor, Sweeps ult for passives

Dodge and weave and blow up some fools

Jabbs_Giggity · May 2019

Waffennacht wrote: »

I went the exact opposite direction I was going in and I am having success:

Khajiit
Templar
Stam

Dubious

Steed Mundus
x3 swift

Impreg
tzogvins
Bal

Bow 2h

Well-fitted out the wazzooo

So automatically get 1.7 crit mod, 1.8 with fully tzogvins

Crit potions, I think my crit chance is a little low without a fully buffed tz but it seems to be good enough.

I'm currently running

Rally, Jav (Stam version obv) backlash, jabs, and executioner with 2h ult
Poison Injection, Snipe, Purge, Rune, Vigor, Sweeps ult for passives

Dodge and weave and blow up some fools

If I wanted to play that style I would hop on my stamblade....already geared for that with better utility.

Jabbs_Giggity · May 2019

@Waffennacht Plus my time is already limited for ESO now - not going to try to grind dungeon gear or Balorgh's RNG game

Waffennacht · May 2019

.

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

@Waffennacht Plus my time is already limited for ESO now - not going to try to grind dungeon gear or Balorgh's RNG game

No worries! I was just throwing out ideas more or less, by no-means a how-to lol.

And I personally do not enjoy the NB class.

But I completely get what you're saying

Jabbs_Giggity · May 2019

Waffennacht wrote: »

.

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

@Waffennacht Plus my time is already limited for ESO now - not going to try to grind dungeon gear or Balorgh's RNG game

No worries! I was just throwing out ideas more or less, by no-means a how-to lol.

And I personally do not enjoy the NB class.

But I completely get what you're saying

I never enjoyed it either until I really started playing it regularly and realized how much better the tool-kit syncs with how I play. The burst and healing is UNREAL on top of defense...wow I can stand there doing nothing and take hits to the face from 4-5 players while I eat my cake.

Problem with playing stamblade is that it's just not Templar...

Minno · May 2019

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

@Waffennacht Plus my time is already limited for ESO now - not going to try to grind dungeon gear or Balorgh's RNG game

Use domi/kena or kena/veli. Its basically the same thing, except 100% uptime and buffs your healing. Slimecraw doesnt buff your healing though it buffs your crit chance. Bal is probably BIS if using something like 2h ult but if you can't farm it, don't think you are ineffective. Use what you can!

I would drop fort brass. 29k resist is only 6k more than my build running no defense sets, is about 8-9% mitigation which doesnt impact bleeds. Maybe swap to swift, gives you 2950 resist + 10% dmg mitigation or steadfast ward because those are superior if looking for raw mitigation.

waffen, brings up the idea that speed is still SO important to stamplar; why not embrace it? If you have bone pirate, swap to 2x swift+steed and see if that helps. Kiting is not mutually exclusive to class; just some are better build for it.

Jabbs_Giggity · May 2019

Minno wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

@Waffennacht Plus my time is already limited for ESO now - not going to try to grind dungeon gear or Balorgh's RNG game

Use domi/kena or kena/veli. Its basically the same thing, except 100% uptime and buffs your healing. Slimecraw doesnt buff your healing though it buffs your crit chance. Bal is probably BIS if using something like 2h ult but if you can't farm it, don't think you are ineffective. Use what you can!

I would drop fort brass. 29k resist is only 6k more than my build running no defense sets, is about 8-9% mitigation which doesnt impact bleeds. Maybe swap to swift, gives you 2950 resist + 10% dmg mitigation or steadfast ward because those are superior if looking for raw mitigation.

waffen, brings up the idea that speed is still SO important to stamplar; why not embrace it? If you have bone pirate, swap to 2x swift+steed and see if that helps. Kiting is not mutually exclusive to class; just some are better build for it.

Already tried Domi paired with other monster sets. Also, I run Quick cloak for Major Expedition and already run Steed. I get what you're saying and I have tried so many different builds and playstyles and all are seemingly underwhelming. Swift doesn't help any if you're constantly rooted/snared/immobilized. I have tried running Shuffle instead of Repent or FM instead of Rally (cannot lose that burst heal because ya know, heals suck on Stamplar). Nothing gives...

Hoping new immunity changes are leget becaue I am so sick of being perma stunned/snared/rooted, etc.

Jabbs_Giggity · May 2019

And Slimecrawl may not be BiS, but I like the 8% damage and crit because it beefs up my jabs and allows more crit dmg.
Templars have always been specc'd around Crit damage. It's just that over the years ZOS has slowly removed all identity of the Templar and given these things away to other classes in one way or another.

Minno · May 2019

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

@Waffennacht Plus my time is already limited for ESO now - not going to try to grind dungeon gear or Balorgh's RNG game

Use domi/kena or kena/veli. Its basically the same thing, except 100% uptime and buffs your healing. Slimecraw doesnt buff your healing though it buffs your crit chance. Bal is probably BIS if using something like 2h ult but if you can't farm it, don't think you are ineffective. Use what you can!

I would drop fort brass. 29k resist is only 6k more than my build running no defense sets, is about 8-9% mitigation which doesnt impact bleeds. Maybe swap to swift, gives you 2950 resist + 10% dmg mitigation or steadfast ward because those are superior if looking for raw mitigation.

waffen, brings up the idea that speed is still SO important to stamplar; why not embrace it? If you have bone pirate, swap to 2x swift+steed and see if that helps. Kiting is not mutually exclusive to class; just some are better build for it.

Already tried Domi paired with other monster sets. Also, I run Quick cloak for Major Expedition and already run Steed. I get what you're saying and I have tried so many different builds and playstyles and all are seemingly underwhelming. Swift doesn't help any if you're constantly rooted/snared/immobilized. I have tried running Shuffle instead of Repent or FM instead of Rally (cannot lose that burst heal because ya know, heals suck on Stamplar). Nothing gives...

Hoping new immunity changes are leget becaue I am so sick of being perma stunned/snared/rooted, etc.

Cast purge and instantly cancel it with a dodge roll. Youll break the immobilze, break the snare and should go right into sprinting to put yourself at a nice distance away while dodging most snare ranged spells. Run rally and wait for the RAT meta next patch. Heavy shackle+dmg set should be nicer next patch.

There is a current trend of getting 27-30k max health on templars to help offset the low offensive windows. But those are magplars running pirate skeleton lol. There are also more hybrid templars too but I can't share that build lol.

Jabbs_Giggity · May 2019

Minno wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

@Waffennacht Plus my time is already limited for ESO now - not going to try to grind dungeon gear or Balorgh's RNG game

Use domi/kena or kena/veli. Its basically the same thing, except 100% uptime and buffs your healing. Slimecraw doesnt buff your healing though it buffs your crit chance. Bal is probably BIS if using something like 2h ult but if you can't farm it, don't think you are ineffective. Use what you can!

I would drop fort brass. 29k resist is only 6k more than my build running no defense sets, is about 8-9% mitigation which doesnt impact bleeds. Maybe swap to swift, gives you 2950 resist + 10% dmg mitigation or steadfast ward because those are superior if looking for raw mitigation.

waffen, brings up the idea that speed is still SO important to stamplar; why not embrace it? If you have bone pirate, swap to 2x swift+steed and see if that helps. Kiting is not mutually exclusive to class; just some are better build for it.

Already tried Domi paired with other monster sets. Also, I run Quick cloak for Major Expedition and already run Steed. I get what you're saying and I have tried so many different builds and playstyles and all are seemingly underwhelming. Swift doesn't help any if you're constantly rooted/snared/immobilized. I have tried running Shuffle instead of Repent or FM instead of Rally (cannot lose that burst heal because ya know, heals suck on Stamplar). Nothing gives...

Hoping new immunity changes are leget becaue I am so sick of being perma stunned/snared/rooted, etc.

Cast purge and instantly cancel it with a dodge roll. Youll break the immobilze, break the snare and should go right into sprinting to put yourself at a nice distance away while dodging most snare ranged spells. Run rally and wait for the RAT meta next patch. Heavy shackle+dmg set should be nicer next patch.

There is a current trend of getting 27-30k max health on templars to help offset the low offensive windows. But those are magplars running pirate skeleton lol.
There are also more hybrid templars too but I can't share that build lol.

MaxJrFTW · May 2019

I'm going to be trying this set up next patch. Charge skills are now really fast, and with the minimum range gone i don't see why anyone would use Javelin anymore or even reverb. Hopefully they don't revert the minimum range change, or the speed of the charges for that matter.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=141174

May or may not drop Blood Spawn for The Troll King due to the lackluster healing/defense stamplars have.

I'm doing something similar with my magplar, using Toppling Charge to replace Total Dark. Dropping vampirism and replacing mist with RAT. Dropping axiom as well for Buffer of the Swift to make up for the dmg reduction from mist and vampirism. I'm not sure about that last one, i could just drop Valkyn and use Blood Spawn or Pirate Skeleton.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=141166

Stibbons · May 2019

"Is there a secret formula (outside of player skill and comprehension of PVP tactics/class knowledge) that will allow me to competitively play against the other Classes that ZOS has repeatedly given great tool-kits, or given passives/actives that buff their current tool-kits? DK's and Wardens were given Major Mending - a Buff that only Templars could get. ZOS said Templars and DK's would never get expedition, but gave em to DK's - along with Snare removal/immunity Templar STILL only class without means of Major Brutality/Sorcery in class kit while all passives require class skills! Even restoring aura mending passive only works on class heals (which is a joke for Stamina templar). Major Protection = RIPped from Templar as well...
Templar used to be a staple for healing. Nope, all other classes received a nice Burst heal ability while ours got cost increase."

This exactly in the problem playing magplar or stamplar. Pretty much all is better at other classes and i mainly play them now.

Waffennacht · May 2019

I'm a big fan of toppling, I have used it on many Stam versions I've tried even. Gap closer + CC is great for setting up burst (seriously though I can't think of any single ability more bursty than 2h ult that needs a CC)

I personally rarely use jabs/sweeps (on my bar yes) but because I personally think it opens too many counter opportunities if used frequently.(think of an enemy using Soul Assault on an ally - you know you have cart blanche to go ham)

RAT looks so enticing!

@Minno has some dope builds that are... good to say the least, I would just trust what he has to say about them

Minno · May 2019

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

I'm going to be trying this set up next patch. Charge skills are now really fast, and with the minimum range gone i don't see why anyone would use Javelin anymore(if you use 1h/shield). Hopefully they don't revert the minimum range change, or the speed of the charges for that matter.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=141174

May or may not drop Blood Spawn for The Troll King due to the lackluster healing/defense stamplars have.

I'm doing something similar with my magplar, using Toppling Charge to replace Total Dark. Dropping vampirism and replacing mist with RAT. Going to do drop axiom for Buffer of the Swift to make up for the dmg reduction from mist and vampirism.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildEditor?id=141166

If you want a better metric for how to see if the build will do, update the section that says "Target Stats". Right now it defaults to PVE trial bosses lol. Plug in the following:
- 26000 resists
- 3300 CHR
- 40% CHC
- 70% CHD
- 10k penetration.

Those are typical cyro stats on targets these days.

MaxJrFTW · May 2019

Stibbons wrote: »

"Is there a secret formula (outside of player skill and comprehension of PVP tactics/class knowledge) that will allow me to competitively play against the other Classes that ZOS has repeatedly given great tool-kits, or given passives/actives that buff their current tool-kits? DK's and Wardens were given Major Mending - a Buff that only Templars could get. ZOS said Templars and DK's would never get expedition, but gave em to DK's - along with Snare removal/immunity Templar STILL only class without means of Major Brutality/Sorcery in class kit while all passives require class skills! Even restoring aura mending passive only works on class heals (which is a joke for Stamina templar). Major Protection = RIPped from Templar as well...
Templar used to be a staple for healing. Nope, all other classes received a nice Burst heal ability while ours got cost increase."

This exactly in the problem playing magplar or stamplar. Pretty much all is better at other classes and i mainly play them now.

Templars are due for a redesign. Some of the passives are too situational, and even some of the skills and morphs are practically useless like Explosive Charge, Unstable Core, Blazing Shield, and Restoring Aura(both morphs). Repentance became redundant the moment they gave the rune 480 stam recovery.

Minno · May 2019

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Stibbons wrote: »

"Is there a secret formula (outside of player skill and comprehension of PVP tactics/class knowledge) that will allow me to competitively play against the other Classes that ZOS has repeatedly given great tool-kits, or given passives/actives that buff their current tool-kits? DK's and Wardens were given Major Mending - a Buff that only Templars could get. ZOS said Templars and DK's would never get expedition, but gave em to DK's - along with Snare removal/immunity Templar STILL only class without means of Major Brutality/Sorcery in class kit while all passives require class skills! Even restoring aura mending passive only works on class heals (which is a joke for Stamina templar). Major Protection = RIPped from Templar as well...
Templar used to be a staple for healing. Nope, all other classes received a nice Burst heal ability while ours got cost increase."

This exactly in the problem playing magplar or stamplar. Pretty much all is better at other classes and i mainly play them now.

Templars are due for a redesign. Some of the passives are too situational, and even some of the skills and morphs are practically useless like Explosive Charge, Unstable Core, Blazing Shield, and Restoring Aura(both morphs). Repentance became redundant the moment they gave the rune 480 stam recovery.

repentance isnt redundant. Burst sustain neither equals nor replaces sustained sustain.

Here's my personal list of morphs that are either redundant or don't function in the modern interpretation of the game (ignoring PVE centric morphs too):
- Aurora Jav
- blazing shield
- solar disturbance
- unstable core (soon to be total dark as well)
- radiant oppression
- breath of life (even healers hardly run it)
- healing ritual (both morphs)
- Radiant Aura
- Practiced Incantation

They are either replaced by more efficient spells, have better dmg/defense/sustain options or the other morph is so perfect it makes no sense to run it.

Waffennacht · May 2019

I've been thinking of a magicka version of what I got going and here is what I'm thinking

x3 swift
Steed
(I'm addicted)

Impreg
Cal
Not sure on helms

Again a ton of well fitted (with the update I love roll dodge and have specific thoughts why here)

Front bar (with update there's any weapon setup you want)
RAT, Purifying Light, Toppling Charge, Annulment, Sweeps, ult (Dawnbreaker?)

Back bar,. Mist form, Extended, Rune, BoL? Entropy (whichever is the right version lol) ult (panacea?)

Why?

I'm gonna wanna roll dodge cancel RAT for the dodge window, root immunity, major expedition and snare immunity - I'm also gonna wanna have it front bar so I can get out of a bad situation and reposition before in SoL part

Mist form back bar because 2 dodges is probably max, I'm thinking: dodge cancel RAT, swap cancel annulment (dodge window protects annulment for 1 GCD) extended (now Annulment is hit), dodge cancel BoL (or other heal) dodge window into mist form to reposition and mitigate the chasers. - now also free to LoS

Edit: if Cal procs on the opening light then toppling charge should outpace it and stun prior to landing in update making them eat it. If it procs on the charge itself and not the light, then the Gap is closed and they eat it. Followed up by an ult or just sweeps should be enough to make just about any build back peddle. Offensively speaking

Akinos · May 2019

Minno wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Stibbons wrote: »

"Is there a secret formula (outside of player skill and comprehension of PVP tactics/class knowledge) that will allow me to competitively play against the other Classes that ZOS has repeatedly given great tool-kits, or given passives/actives that buff their current tool-kits? DK's and Wardens were given Major Mending - a Buff that only Templars could get. ZOS said Templars and DK's would never get expedition, but gave em to DK's - along with Snare removal/immunity Templar STILL only class without means of Major Brutality/Sorcery in class kit while all passives require class skills! Even restoring aura mending passive only works on class heals (which is a joke for Stamina templar). Major Protection = RIPped from Templar as well...
Templar used to be a staple for healing. Nope, all other classes received a nice Burst heal ability while ours got cost increase."

This exactly in the problem playing magplar or stamplar. Pretty much all is better at other classes and i mainly play them now.

Templars are due for a redesign. Some of the passives are too situational, and even some of the skills and morphs are practically useless like Explosive Charge, Unstable Core, Blazing Shield, and Restoring Aura(both morphs). Repentance became redundant the moment they gave the rune 480 stam recovery.

repentance isnt redundant. Burst sustain neither equals nor replaces sustained sustain.

Here's my personal list of morphs that are either redundant or don't function in the modern interpretation of the game (ignoring PVE centric morphs too):
- Aurora Jav
- blazing shield
- solar disturbance
- unstable core (soon to be total dark as well)
- radiant oppression
- breath of life (even healers hardly run it)
- healing ritual (both morphs)
- Radiant Aura
- Practiced Incantation

They are either replaced by more efficient spells, have better dmg/defense/sustain options or the other morph is so perfect it makes no sense to run it.

I disagree with some of these skills being redundant/useless. Most of them have a place with a variety of builds if people would actually stop and think about their use instead of just going straight for the meta builds.

Aurora javelin=highest damage long ranged cc there is when cast from maximum distance. I've landed crits upwards of 10k on targets in cyrodil with this. Example combo: reflective/vamp bane>javelin>dark flare>beam will end most builds in cyrodil. Will be better once DK's can't reflect.

Blazing Shield=yeah this pretty much needs a redesign after what they did to it.

Solar Disturbance=could use a redesign too since the other morph is better.

Unstable Core=I always liked this morph over total dark for a few reasons, the damage it can do, pulling nightblades out of stealth since cloaking doesn't remove it, and you can still cast it on CC immune targets to setup massive burst when they don't expect it. Example combo: Unstable core, puncturing sweep once into dark flare and then crescent sweep, and all this will hit when the unstable core timer ends. resulting in damage thats generally pretty hard to recover from.

Radiant Oppression= This is the better morph imo, i tried glory for a long time, had trouble finishing people. Even after some of these good buffs, templars still need all the damage they can get.

BoL= i agree about that don't see it get used alot outside of people that heal 100% of the time.

Healing Ritual=somewhat okay? Could have better secondary effects.

Radiant Aura=I might start using this over ele drain next update because it can hit all targets at once, and nobody likes spending time casting ele drain on one target at a time. Though ele drain will still be better for duels because of the major breach.

Practiced Incantation= Yeah this skill is pretty useless outside of using it to animation cancel and get major protection from the one morph. Could use a redesign too.

Minno · May 2019

Akinos wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Stibbons wrote: »

"Is there a secret formula (outside of player skill and comprehension of PVP tactics/class knowledge) that will allow me to competitively play against the other Classes that ZOS has repeatedly given great tool-kits, or given passives/actives that buff their current tool-kits? DK's and Wardens were given Major Mending - a Buff that only Templars could get. ZOS said Templars and DK's would never get expedition, but gave em to DK's - along with Snare removal/immunity Templar STILL only class without means of Major Brutality/Sorcery in class kit while all passives require class skills! Even restoring aura mending passive only works on class heals (which is a joke for Stamina templar). Major Protection = RIPped from Templar as well...
Templar used to be a staple for healing. Nope, all other classes received a nice Burst heal ability while ours got cost increase."

This exactly in the problem playing magplar or stamplar. Pretty much all is better at other classes and i mainly play them now.

Templars are due for a redesign. Some of the passives are too situational, and even some of the skills and morphs are practically useless like Explosive Charge, Unstable Core, Blazing Shield, and Restoring Aura(both morphs). Repentance became redundant the moment they gave the rune 480 stam recovery.

repentance isnt redundant. Burst sustain neither equals nor replaces sustained sustain.

Here's my personal list of morphs that are either redundant or don't function in the modern interpretation of the game (ignoring PVE centric morphs too):
- Aurora Jav
- blazing shield
- solar disturbance
- unstable core (soon to be total dark as well)
- radiant oppression
- breath of life (even healers hardly run it)
- healing ritual (both morphs)
- Radiant Aura
- Practiced Incantation

They are either replaced by more efficient spells, have better dmg/defense/sustain options or the other morph is so perfect it makes no sense to run it.

I disagree with some of these skills being redundant/useless. Most of them have a place with a variety of builds if people would actually stop and think about their use instead of just going straight for the meta builds.

Aurora javelin=highest damage long ranged cc there is when cast from maximum distance. I've landed crits upwards of 10k on targets in cyrodil with this. Example combo: reflective/vamp bane>javelin>dark flare>beam will end most builds in cyrodil. Will be better once DK's can't reflect.

Blazing Shield=yeah this pretty much needs a redesign after what they did to it.

Solar Disturbance=could use a redesign too since the other morph is better.

Unstable Core=I always liked this morph over total dark for a few reasons, the damage it can do, pulling nightblades out of stealth since cloaking doesn't remove it, and you can still cast it on CC immune targets to setup massive burst when they don't expect it. Example combo: Unstable core, puncturing sweep once into dark flare and then crescent sweep, and all this will hit when the unstable core timer ends. resulting in damage thats generally pretty hard to recover from.

Radiant Oppression= This is the better morph imo, i tried glory for a long time, had trouble finishing people. Even after some of these good buffs, templars still need all the damage they can get.

BoL= i agree about that don't see it get used alot outside of people that heal 100% of the time.

Healing Ritual=somewhat okay? Could have better secondary effects.

Radiant Aura=I might start using this over ele drain next update because it can hit all targets at once, and nobody likes spending time casting ele drain on one target at a time. Though ele drain will still be better for duels because of the major breach.

Practiced Incantation= Yeah this skill is pretty useless outside of using it to animation cancel and get major protection from the one morph. Could use a redesign too.

For javelin, I look at it this way, if you are trying to use it as a way to find a ranged CC, it means your build is using a staff. If it's using a staff, reach is now possible and likely superior because it's cheaper and the DOT dmg offers more utility plus ignores 10% armor lol.

Unstable core is great for sure, until you fight a heavy armor evasion stamblade. I legit watched my 10k unblock/undodge tooltip turn into 1k lol. ::deslotted::

Radiant Oppression is good, and the heal is good, but I never noticed difference between the two in combat. I really only use it in BGs to execute steal.

BOL was added because some end-game healers mentioned they hardly use it. So if PVE healers dont run it, who does?!