Upcoming Racial Passive Changes - Your Thoughts.

MLGProPlayer

Iluvrien wrote: »

Cloudless wrote: »

Joshlenoir wrote: »

Given that strong, unique, and diverse racial passives which impact combat have been a part of all TES games

That's not as true as people on these forums would like it to be: in no TES game before ESO you were made to feel utterly gimped if you decided to play, let's say, a magicka-focused Khajiit or a non-magicka/weapon-focused Breton.

The only "big" racial bonuses in previous TES games would be Bretons and Altmer having more magicka than the other races (and before Skyrim, the massive magicka pool of an Altmer came with some pretty heavy downsides), and the obvious stamina-oriented bonuses that Redguards had. But none of these made or broke a character build - and, more importantly, choosing a certain race for a certain role based on personal preferences was not going to prevent you from enjoying certain aspects of those games. Looking at you, trial guilds who won't have anything less than the best race+class FotM combination.

It's an unpopular opinion, but I still think removing racial passives completely should be the way to go, if ZOS' plan wasn't to pigeonhole certain races into certain roles all along.

So ZOS should be basing development decisions on the fact that the trial guilds are elitist and exclusionary?

Endgame should never be a reason for any decision that affects the game as a whole. Ever.

It doesn't just affect endgame players. It affects everyone.

A bad Khajiit magsorc who is struggling to complete WGT would have a much easier time clearing that content with an Altmer magsorc as the damage boost provided by the Altmer's racial passives is huge.

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO

Neutral

@MLGProPlayer I have to agree with it...I swear min/max in ESO its really very race dependent...would be ok to have the you know high elves idk best for mag dds and idk khajiit for best raw stam dmg...redguard best sustain dark elf mag best sustain...things like this but it should be 1-2% MAX and have no big impact in the overall performance...but right now the impact on end game from min/max its literally huge...I mean srls make a magblade khajiit and the difference btw him and an altmer maglbade its over 5k dps cuz racials… since khajiit has nothing magically related and high elf its a magic powerhouse not to mention nords and bosmer and yes this was just 1 example...look at bis tanking race... Argonians...argonians everywhere...and that's it so right now I can understand why people prefer DK over all other classes to tank(sry sorcs stick to ur sticks) but if ur not argonian ur already having people giving you a hard time of !@#$ but its still not that punishable as it is on dps cases...but healers and tanks are mostly argonians...

notimetocare

Positive

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Iluvrien wrote: »

Cloudless wrote: »

Joshlenoir wrote: »

Given that strong, unique, and diverse racial passives which impact combat have been a part of all TES games

That's not as true as people on these forums would like it to be: in no TES game before ESO you were made to feel utterly gimped if you decided to play, let's say, a magicka-focused Khajiit or a non-magicka/weapon-focused Breton.

The only "big" racial bonuses in previous TES games would be Bretons and Altmer having more magicka than the other races (and before Skyrim, the massive magicka pool of an Altmer came with some pretty heavy downsides), and the obvious stamina-oriented bonuses that Redguards had. But none of these made or broke a character build - and, more importantly, choosing a certain race for a certain role based on personal preferences was not going to prevent you from enjoying certain aspects of those games. Looking at you, trial guilds who won't have anything less than the best race+class FotM combination.

It's an unpopular opinion, but I still think removing racial passives completely should be the way to go, if ZOS' plan wasn't to pigeonhole certain races into certain roles all along.

So ZOS should be basing development decisions on the fact that the trial guilds are elitist and exclusionary?

Endgame should never be a reason for any decision that affects the game as a whole. Ever.

It doesn't just affect endgame players. It affects everyone.

A bad Khajiit magsorc who is struggling to complete WGT would have a much easier time clearing that content with an Altmer magsorc as the damage boost provided by the Altmer's racial passives is huge.

lol no... a bad player will get maybe 5% dps boost with that race change. It won't help with mechanics and bad dps because it is just a percentage boost. Bad players tend to do 8-12k? So 5% is really going to help? No... just no

MLGProPlayer

notimetocare wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Iluvrien wrote: »

Cloudless wrote: »

Joshlenoir wrote: »

Given that strong, unique, and diverse racial passives which impact combat have been a part of all TES games

That's not as true as people on these forums would like it to be: in no TES game before ESO you were made to feel utterly gimped if you decided to play, let's say, a magicka-focused Khajiit or a non-magicka/weapon-focused Breton.

The only "big" racial bonuses in previous TES games would be Bretons and Altmer having more magicka than the other races (and before Skyrim, the massive magicka pool of an Altmer came with some pretty heavy downsides), and the obvious stamina-oriented bonuses that Redguards had. But none of these made or broke a character build - and, more importantly, choosing a certain race for a certain role based on personal preferences was not going to prevent you from enjoying certain aspects of those games. Looking at you, trial guilds who won't have anything less than the best race+class FotM combination.

It's an unpopular opinion, but I still think removing racial passives completely should be the way to go, if ZOS' plan wasn't to pigeonhole certain races into certain roles all along.

So ZOS should be basing development decisions on the fact that the trial guilds are elitist and exclusionary?

Endgame should never be a reason for any decision that affects the game as a whole. Ever.

It doesn't just affect endgame players. It affects everyone.

A bad Khajiit magsorc who is struggling to complete WGT would have a much easier time clearing that content with an Altmer magsorc as the damage boost provided by the Altmer's racial passives is huge.

lol no... a bad player will get maybe 5% dps boost with that race change. It won't help with mechanics and bad dps because it is just a percentage boost. Bad players tend to do 8-12k? So 5% is really going to help? No... just no

Altmer/Dunmer racial passives can add as much as 4k+ in max magicka. That's ~400 effective spell damage (that's like a second Apprentice Mundus stone). They also get boosts to elemental damage.

A lot of content is made easier with more DPS. The extra magicka also helps with sustain.

Katahdin

Positive

As long as we have choices instead of being locked into redgaurd for stam, Altmer for magsorc, dark elf for magblade and argonian for healer and tank, Ill be happy

The higher sustain and stamina passive that redguards have puts the other races at a huge disadvantage

In same exact armor and CP a redguard has 4-5K more stam and 300 more regen on the exact same build.
Thats a HUGE difference in terms of DPS output and sustain in end game

firedrgn

Negative

Because zos never announce anything thats getting a buff or neutral.

Racial passives are getting a nerff.

The only people that have any hope are new people or people who dont pay attention.

wolf486

Neutral

Not a min/max'er so idc. But if it gives better passives to Nords I'd say good. Bring Dunmer/Breton's up a bit so I don't have to see those hideous Altmer everywhere

Abigail

Very Negative

wolf486 wrote: »

Not a min/max'er so idc. But if it gives better passives to Nords I'd say good. Bring Dunmer/Breton's up a bit so I don't have to see those hideous Altmer everywhere

Don't bet on it. With the continual whine by vet players about how easy the content is, ZOS will likely take the easy road and nerf every race.

Donari

Neutral

I'm not a minmaxer either. I'm super casual in this game and I play what appeals to me from an RP viewpoint rather than what will work best in endgame content I never see anyway.

Also I'm not a theorycrafter or game designer. I defer to the game makers as knowing a hell of a lot more than me. The only complaint I have in the design of ESO is the requirement to be in a guild in order to sell on a trading post. I would have a lot more gold if there were a global trader like in GW2. Everything I hear about guild trading is that sure there may be some stories of guilds that have absolutely no requirements and never kick you out even if you don't show up for a month or more and only spottily put things up for sale, but in reality you have to tithe and participate and be active because they can't afford to get the traders without full help from members. As a casual playing this as my secondary game, I'm just not suited to join in this game's economy.

But I digress. For the rest of the game, I'll play it (sporadically) no matter what tweaks the patches bring, unless it becomes open PvP and I can get ganked in PvE areas. Racial passives? Do as you will, ZoS!

TheInfernalRage

Neutral

No specifics. What am I supposed to react?

Garrick

Very Negative

I've always maintained that race choice should be cosmetic only. I hate how certain races are clearly sub-par for a particular role. I know it does not make a lot of difference in real terms, but it still seems unnecessary.

I thought races were fairly well balanced already. ZoS has tweaked races over and over, to the point where there is not a lot of difference between races overall, although some are clearly better at some roles. I wouldn't consider races as broken now, so it seems pointless to try and fix it.

Min-maxers will always min-max. Unless ZoS make all races exactly equal there will always be one race that is slightly better at something than another. The current differences are really slight, but see how people perceive them as being important. Even if one race does only 1% more elemental damage than the rest, you will still hear how the group DPS suffered due to non-optimal race composition. It makes a huge difference, they will say, even though 1% is 1%.

The cynical part of me thinks this is just ZoS getting more money from race change tokens. The game is fundamentally more balanced than it used to be, yet ZoS keep shaking the tree. There's gold in that tree.

Lylith

Very Negative

not something that needs 'fixed.'

Vapirko

Positive

I’m excited about the idea of it but I’m sure my hopes will be dashed when the patch noted come out and then ZOS proceeds to ignore PTS feedback.

Chelo

Neutral

I only play human races and this bother me since the beginning. Right now I'm a Breton MagBlade, but for PvE Dunmer is BiS because of the fire dmg, Altmer is great for any Magicka build and Argonian is the best PvP race to pair with a Magicka playstyle (except maybe for Sorcs).

Since Dunmer have fire dmg and Altmer have elemental dmg, give Bretons magic dmg, so at least they could be a good option for MagBlades and MagPlars.

CrimsonGTX

Very Negative

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Iluvrien wrote: »

So ZOS should be basing development decisions on the fact that the trial guilds are elitist and exclusionary?

Endgame should never be a reason for any decision that affects the game as a whole. Ever.

It doesn't just affect endgame players. It affects everyone.

A bad Khajiit magsorc who is struggling to complete WGT would have a much easier time clearing that content with an Altmer magsorc as the damage boost provided by the Altmer's racial passives is huge.

A bad DPS, is a bad DSP race won't make anyone better. For Min/Max players yes some races will perform better than others. That's just the natural fact of Elder Scrolls and will be for ESO. Breton/High Elf are normally the best overall magicka race, with Dunmer right behind them being slightly better in the school of destruction.

If you're not a min/max player you're still able to complete vet content on non-meta races. It's about a 3% difference in DPS if you played a mag race as a stam, and about a 5% difference if you played a stam race as a mag. Those numbers won't stop anyone from completing a vet dungeon or trial.

cambergang

Very Negative

I’ve the racist get change I’m all for that, but when they start messing with the good ones you see me delete this game

jpo

Very Negative

ZOS might find it easier and less buggy to simply morph everyone into one race. While we're at it, a hybrid healer-dps-tank class that dual wields staves (with only a single build option) will eventually replace all the others.


WTF ever happened to racial differences, factions, lore, and everything TES?

Rocki

I'm a min/max player, always have been and always will be, and I'll be very annoyed if they just switch around which races are strongest in each role. For example, if they balance things so that redguard is equally as strong as the other races for stamina dps, with no advantage or disadvantage, that's fine, but if they make another race the strongest for stamina dps, even by just a small amount, that will be infuriating (unless they give us free race changes).

Without knowing what changes they're actually making, I can't say whether I feel the changes are positive or negative.

MLGProPlayer

wolf486 wrote: »

Not a min/max'er so idc. But if it gives better passives to Nords I'd say good. Bring Dunmer/Breton's up a bit so I don't have to see those hideous Altmer everywhere

Dunmer is slighly stronger than Altmer this patch due to flame staves being BiS.

Breton could use a little love, but they're still fairly competitive with their +10% max magicka and -3% magicka cost (I'd swap out the -3% magicka cost with +4% magic damage).

Magicka classes are actually quite balanced because they all have the same core passives (+9-10% max magicka and +X% to elemental damage or a sustain passive). It's stamina that is a *** show.

dodgehopper_ESO

Mrsinister2 wrote: »

Rilis wrote: »

We all know ZOS way of "balancing" stuff. They are totally out of touch with the game/community. This whole racial passive change idea itself feels like they mostly gonna do it to force people to buy (multiple) race change tokens from the crown store.

This ^^^

Plus I have 3 argonians I really like and don't want completely ruined because zos thinks wood elves should have tanking passives.

The irony is Wood Elves did have tanking passives for a while for that golden moment when 21% stamina regeneration coincided with blocking while regenerating. I know because I had made a character to mess with that. Instead of nerfing Stamina regeneration they cut it off altogether and thereby ruined that build. (Its just a stamdk now)

IndorilArwynLlethran

Very Negative

No, ZOS, no nore "balancing", your undestending of the term is wrong.

AndyMac

Very Negative

I have almost zero confidence in the current devs based on a lot of the changes they have made - everything from the mDK nerf hammering in 1.6 to rampant proc sets, to Sloads.

Many of the changes ZOS makes seem so heavy handed or just plain dumb.

I could definitely believe they nerf, excuse me, balance strong classes/races/builds to force people to reroll another class - you know, keep us all moving.

I main a dunmer mDK and this class and race has gone pretty much backwards for a long, long time. I can't imagine the current "balancing" being any different.

I would love to be wrong, though

FrancisCrawford

CrimsonGTX wrote: »

It's about a 3% difference in DPS if you played a mag race as a stam, and about a 5% difference if you played a stam race as a mag. Those numbers won't stop anyone from completing a vet dungeon or trial.

That low? I'd think that max magicka vs. max stamina is 5-6% on its own, before considering the effects of any other passives.

HappyLittleTree

Very Positive

As an argonian main (for the looks not the passives) i look forward to changes so I can use them as stam as well. (well better that is i still use em')

shiningforce

Very Positive

This game needs a lot of fixing. You should be able to create a race then select the stats like the original elder scroll games. You paid money for a race change just so you could have that high dps character on every new patch, so what, heres another patch. Nothing new.

Valykc

Neutral

Too early on to tell for me. We have no details yet so I can’t comment how I feel just yet, I’m hoping they balance them out a bit, Argonian is massively over-performing.

Zelos

Neutral

Zeytio wrote: »

im just salty i've race changed the same character ten times just to keep up to date with the meta. pls no change.

Nah you just gotta git gud:)

Dottzgaming

Negative

CyrusArya wrote: »

Id much rather see underperforming races brought up to par rather than anything be nerfed. The reality is, no one likes logging in to a patch where their characters are weaker than they were the the day before.

There’s only two races that are overloaded in my opinion anyways, Argonian and Orc. So sweeping changes to racials across the board doesn’t really make sense to me. My input would be to: slightly tone down the two I listed; keep Redguard, Altmer, Dunmer, and Bosmer at the current power level; buff Imperial, Breton, Khajiit, and Nord.

Bottom line is, I like that races function differently and I think it adds an important layer to character building, so I’d prefer it stay that way even if performance is more equalized.

Just wanted to highlight these points as they cover how i feel pretty well. i dont like how ZoS does sweeping changes across the board instead of nerfing the couple outliers and buffing things that need help, and because of that im pretty nervous about the upcoming changes.

But, hopefully they go about this the right way, because then it could be a really good change for those who've always wanted to play an under-performing race.

Cillion3117

Neutral

I'd like them to truly equalize them. Get rid of all the stamina and magicka passives and do something creative and unique.

Shinshadow

Neutral

Zeytio wrote: »

im just salty i've race changed the same character ten times just to keep up to date with the meta. pls no change.

Stop chasing the meta, and you wouldn't have to worry about that.