Solving AotP

Soul_Demon

gabriebe wrote: »

I wouldn't mind so much AotP if it was all EP had. In the current state of Vivec, most of the better guilds in the game are also on EP's side.

At this point we may need Crispen to come in and do some intel- one of his threads breaking down active guilds per faction as I think you may find the stuff he collects surprising. Generally his were the most accurate pictures of the Cyro landscape- beyond that we will all likely never really 'see' the true picture of what guilds are playing where and doing exactly what.

Red_Nine

Soul_Demon wrote: »

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gabriebe wrote: »

I wouldn't mind so much AotP if it was all EP had. In the current state of Vivec, most of the better guilds in the game are also on EP's side.

At this point we may need Crispen to come in and do some intel- one of his threads breaking down active guilds per faction as I think you may find the stuff he collects surprising. Generally his were the most accurate pictures of the Cyro landscape- beyond that we will all likely never really 'see' the true picture of what guilds are playing where and doing exactly what.

If you're referring to this, it's rather out of date, referencing deprecated campaigns.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/332387/na-pc-what-pvp-guilds-are-still-active#latest

Marcus684

It seems like most of the guild groups never talk in zone and just do their thing, maybe coordinating with 1 or 2 other group leaders, maybe not. If you judge guild group activity by zone chat, you're definitely gonna miss a lot.

Ralamil

I don't get what the big deal is. AotP is just the natural response of a "leader" who's so impotent that his only means of being effective is stacking absolutely as many players on screen as he can and cause it to lag to hell. It's easy to be more effective when your enemies skills aren't firing and you have the numbers.

No but really, I never want to hear how other factions stack worse than EP ever again. xD

IZZEFlameLash

ESO campaign politics is like online version of real world politics. Yall should be running for government offices

Red_Nine

Ralamil wrote: »

I don't get what the big deal is. AotP is just the natural response of a "leader" who's so impotent that his only means of being effective is stacking absolutely as many players on screen as he can and cause it to lag to hell. It's easy to be more effective when your enemies skills aren't firing and you have the numbers.

No but really, I never want to hear how other factions stack worse than EP ever again. xD

Maybe you'd have more fun in Battlegrounds or dueling then. Or maybe Shor is more your speed. Don't let a game make you so angry. It's not healthy. Surely you realize that complaining in the forums about it won't change anything. Let go, man, life is too short. A game is supposed to be fun. If you're not able to enjoy it, what's the point?

Red_Nine

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

ESO campaign politics is like online version of real world politics. Yall should be running for government offices

This is the worst idea I have heard all day.

Ralamil

Red_Nine wrote: »

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Ralamil wrote: »

I don't get what the big deal is. AotP is just the natural response of a "leader" who's so impotent that his only means of being effective is stacking absolutely as many players on screen as he can and cause it to lag to hell. It's easy to be more effective when your enemies skills aren't firing and you have the numbers.

No but really, I never want to hear how other factions stack worse than EP ever again. xD

Maybe you'd have more fun in Battlegrounds or dueling then. Or maybe Shor is more your speed. Don't let a game make you so angry. It's not healthy. Surely you realize that complaining in the forums about it won't change anything. Let go, man, life is too short. A game is supposed to be fun. If you're not able to enjoy it, what's the point?

I do have fun in pvp. I can have fun and still generally think your guild is a cancer that isn't healthy to the game that's basically skating by in terms of performance by exploiting the poor server infrastructure.

Besides, if you were concerned about anyone's fun but your own, you'd let us use our skills every once in a while. Now kindly take your faux concern elsewhere. Maybe brush up on your smallman (1 raid or less, I guess) gameplay.

Ruckly

Ralamil wrote: »

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Red_Nine wrote: »

Ralamil wrote: »

I don't get what the big deal is. AotP is just the natural response of a "leader" who's so impotent that his only means of being effective is stacking absolutely as many players on screen as he can and cause it to lag to hell. It's easy to be more effective when your enemies skills aren't firing and you have the numbers.

No but really, I never want to hear how other factions stack worse than EP ever again. xD

Maybe you'd have more fun in Battlegrounds or dueling then. Or maybe Shor is more your speed. Don't let a game make you so angry. It's not healthy. Surely you realize that complaining in the forums about it won't change anything. Let go, man, life is too short. A game is supposed to be fun. If you're not able to enjoy it, what's the point?

I do have fun in pvp. I can have fun and still generally think your guild is a cancer that isn't healthy to the game that's basically skating by in terms of performance by exploiting the poor server infrastructure.

Besides, if you were concerned about anyone's fun but your own, you'd let us use our skills every once in a while. Now kindly take your faux concern elsewhere. Maybe brush up on your smallman (1 raid or less, I guess) gameplay.

I wouldn't take what they say serious at all. They aren't even beyond ecclefiaftes. They lost 3 campaigns in a row after winning many. Two of those campaigns they botched and bungled. Make an EP toon and make the 100 man blob bigger.

Elong

Red_Nine wrote: »

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Ralamil wrote: »

I don't get what the big deal is. AotP is just the natural response of a "leader" who's so impotent that his only means of being effective is stacking absolutely as many players on screen as he can and cause it to lag to hell. It's easy to be more effective when your enemies skills aren't firing and you have the numbers.

No but really, I never want to hear how other factions stack worse than EP ever again. xD

Maybe you'd have more fun in Battlegrounds or dueling then. Or maybe Shor is more your speed. Don't let a game make you so angry. It's not healthy. Surely you realize that complaining in the forums about it won't change anything. Let go, man, life is too short. A game is supposed to be fun. If you're not able to enjoy it, what's the point?

Some of us aren't able to enjoy because certain players willingly stack 80 deep in the same place and cause lag. You know what your actions cause. I'm not angry about it, just disappointed. There are other options to pvp, and I take those avenues a lot more lately, because of the selfishness of some of the playerbase.
Before you say "but the game is built for large battles etc", it might have been, but it can't do it anymore, it can't handle that many people, and they can't fix it, or won't fix it. We as players have to take a small amount of ownership if we love and value this game.

frozywozy

Ralamil wrote: »

show previous quotes

Red_Nine wrote: »

Ralamil wrote: »

I don't get what the big deal is. AotP is just the natural response of a "leader" who's so impotent that his only means of being effective is stacking absolutely as many players on screen as he can and cause it to lag to hell. It's easy to be more effective when your enemies skills aren't firing and you have the numbers.

No but really, I never want to hear how other factions stack worse than EP ever again. xD

Maybe you'd have more fun in Battlegrounds or dueling then. Or maybe Shor is more your speed. Don't let a game make you so angry. It's not healthy. Surely you realize that complaining in the forums about it won't change anything. Let go, man, life is too short. A game is supposed to be fun. If you're not able to enjoy it, what's the point?

I do have fun in pvp. I can have fun and still generally think your guild is a cancer that isn't healthy to the game that's basically skating by in terms of performance by exploiting the poor server infrastructure.

Besides, if you were concerned about anyone's fun but your own, you'd let us use our skills every once in a while. Now kindly take your faux concern elsewhere. Maybe brush up on your smallman (1 raid or less, I guess) gameplay.

It's been said before that they enjoy running with large numbers. Even if they could get better and be successful with 12, they would still run with more because they like big raids. This being said, that would be fine, IF and only if the servers could handle it which is not the case. Glad they have been doing efforts to spread their raids in different directions but it should not be a "once in a while thing". it should be a 95% of the time kind of thing.

Thoragaal

Elong wrote: »

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Red_Nine wrote: »

Ralamil wrote: »

I don't get what the big deal is. AotP is just the natural response of a "leader" who's so impotent that his only means of being effective is stacking absolutely as many players on screen as he can and cause it to lag to hell. It's easy to be more effective when your enemies skills aren't firing and you have the numbers.

No but really, I never want to hear how other factions stack worse than EP ever again. xD

Maybe you'd have more fun in Battlegrounds or dueling then. Or maybe Shor is more your speed. Don't let a game make you so angry. It's not healthy. Surely you realize that complaining in the forums about it won't change anything. Let go, man, life is too short. A game is supposed to be fun. If you're not able to enjoy it, what's the point?

Some of us aren't able to enjoy because certain players willingly stack 80 deep in the same place and cause lag. You know what your actions cause. I'm not angry about it, just disappointed. There are other options to pvp, and I take those avenues a lot more lately, because of the selfishness of some of the playerbase.
Before you say "but the game is built for large battles etc", it might have been, but it can't do it anymore, it can't handle that many people, and they can't fix it, or won't fix it. We as players have to take a small amount of ownership if we love and value this game.

frozywozy wrote: »

show previous quotes

Ralamil wrote: »

Red_Nine wrote: »

Ralamil wrote: »

I don't get what the big deal is. AotP is just the natural response of a "leader" who's so impotent that his only means of being effective is stacking absolutely as many players on screen as he can and cause it to lag to hell. It's easy to be more effective when your enemies skills aren't firing and you have the numbers.

No but really, I never want to hear how other factions stack worse than EP ever again. xD

Maybe you'd have more fun in Battlegrounds or dueling then. Or maybe Shor is more your speed. Don't let a game make you so angry. It's not healthy. Surely you realize that complaining in the forums about it won't change anything. Let go, man, life is too short. A game is supposed to be fun. If you're not able to enjoy it, what's the point?

I do have fun in pvp. I can have fun and still generally think your guild is a cancer that isn't healthy to the game that's basically skating by in terms of performance by exploiting the poor server infrastructure.

Besides, if you were concerned about anyone's fun but your own, you'd let us use our skills every once in a while. Now kindly take your faux concern elsewhere. Maybe brush up on your smallman (1 raid or less, I guess) gameplay.

It's been said before that they enjoy running with large numbers. Even if they could get better and be successful with 12, they would still run with more because they like big raids. This being said, that would be fine, IF and only if the servers could handle it which is not the case. Glad they have been doing efforts to spread their raids in different directions but it should not be a "once in a while thing". it should be a 95% of the time kind of thing.

Some people are able to handle themselves pretty good in various scenarios, others not so well. The personal skill and ability to get better also differs from person to person.
I know some people that's been doing Cyrodiil for 3-4 years and still don't know how to break free from a CC, because they don't have the reaction time for it. Others don't have the situational awareness to avoid AoE being poured on them. Some people can't find their own heal button before it's too late.
While others can easily kill 3 opponents alone.
For many people being in a large groups, even if it is causing lag, is their only way to enjoy Cyrodiil. It's a way to even the odds in their favour. Put 20 skilled players against 30 ppl that can't break free/get out of AoE/can't heal themselves (or others) and those other 20 (or even less) will wreck them apart by sheer personal skill.
But to make it clear, you don't want to make it impossible for those others to enjoy their game? Because not everyone is able to learn to the same capacity, or even as fast, as someone else.

DisgracefulMind

Thoragaal wrote: »

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Elong wrote: »

Red_Nine wrote: »

Ralamil wrote: »

I don't get what the big deal is. AotP is just the natural response of a "leader" who's so impotent that his only means of being effective is stacking absolutely as many players on screen as he can and cause it to lag to hell. It's easy to be more effective when your enemies skills aren't firing and you have the numbers.

No but really, I never want to hear how other factions stack worse than EP ever again. xD

Maybe you'd have more fun in Battlegrounds or dueling then. Or maybe Shor is more your speed. Don't let a game make you so angry. It's not healthy. Surely you realize that complaining in the forums about it won't change anything. Let go, man, life is too short. A game is supposed to be fun. If you're not able to enjoy it, what's the point?

Some of us aren't able to enjoy because certain players willingly stack 80 deep in the same place and cause lag. You know what your actions cause. I'm not angry about it, just disappointed. There are other options to pvp, and I take those avenues a lot more lately, because of the selfishness of some of the playerbase.
Before you say "but the game is built for large battles etc", it might have been, but it can't do it anymore, it can't handle that many people, and they can't fix it, or won't fix it. We as players have to take a small amount of ownership if we love and value this game.

show previous quotes

frozywozy wrote: »

Ralamil wrote: »

Red_Nine wrote: »

Ralamil wrote: »

I don't get what the big deal is. AotP is just the natural response of a "leader" who's so impotent that his only means of being effective is stacking absolutely as many players on screen as he can and cause it to lag to hell. It's easy to be more effective when your enemies skills aren't firing and you have the numbers.

No but really, I never want to hear how other factions stack worse than EP ever again. xD

Maybe you'd have more fun in Battlegrounds or dueling then. Or maybe Shor is more your speed. Don't let a game make you so angry. It's not healthy. Surely you realize that complaining in the forums about it won't change anything. Let go, man, life is too short. A game is supposed to be fun. If you're not able to enjoy it, what's the point?

I do have fun in pvp. I can have fun and still generally think your guild is a cancer that isn't healthy to the game that's basically skating by in terms of performance by exploiting the poor server infrastructure.

Besides, if you were concerned about anyone's fun but your own, you'd let us use our skills every once in a while. Now kindly take your faux concern elsewhere. Maybe brush up on your smallman (1 raid or less, I guess) gameplay.

It's been said before that they enjoy running with large numbers. Even if they could get better and be successful with 12, they would still run with more because they like big raids. This being said, that would be fine, IF and only if the servers could handle it which is not the case. Glad they have been doing efforts to spread their raids in different directions but it should not be a "once in a while thing". it should be a 95% of the time kind of thing.

Some people are able to handle themselves pretty good in various scenarios, others not so well. The personal skill and ability to get better also differs from person to person.
I know some people that's been doing Cyrodiil for 3-4 years and still don't know how to break free from a CC, because they don't have the reaction time for it. Others don't have the situational awareness to avoid AoE being poured on them. Some people can't find their own heal button before it's too late.
While others can easily kill 3 opponents alone.
For many people being in a large groups, even if it is causing lag, is their only way to enjoy Cyrodiil. It's a way to even the odds in their favour. Put 20 skilled players against 30 ppl that can't break free/get out of AoE/can't heal themselves (or others) and those other 20 (or even less) will wreck them apart by sheer personal skill.
But to make it clear, you don't want to make it impossible for those others to enjoy their game? Because not everyone is able to learn to the same capacity, or even as fast, as someone else.

There's a difference between a 20 man group and multiple 24 man raids being put together by the same person/guild. No matter how awful you are, you don't need 50+ people, sorry.

montiferus

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

There's a difference between a 20 man group and multiple 24 man raids being put together by the same person/guild. No matter how awful you are, you don't need 50+ people, sorry.

This!

The people who are defending this style are just mediocre players who never tried to get better thats why they need the numbers in the first place.

I for one am super thankful console doesn’t operate on such a grotesque scale.

You can either chose to be part of the problem or not. Its pretty clear here what choice they made.

Thoragaal

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

show previous quotes

Thoragaal wrote: »

Elong wrote: »

Red_Nine wrote: »

Ralamil wrote: »

I don't get what the big deal is. AotP is just the natural response of a "leader" who's so impotent that his only means of being effective is stacking absolutely as many players on screen as he can and cause it to lag to hell. It's easy to be more effective when your enemies skills aren't firing and you have the numbers.

No but really, I never want to hear how other factions stack worse than EP ever again. xD

Maybe you'd have more fun in Battlegrounds or dueling then. Or maybe Shor is more your speed. Don't let a game make you so angry. It's not healthy. Surely you realize that complaining in the forums about it won't change anything. Let go, man, life is too short. A game is supposed to be fun. If you're not able to enjoy it, what's the point?

Some of us aren't able to enjoy because certain players willingly stack 80 deep in the same place and cause lag. You know what your actions cause. I'm not angry about it, just disappointed. There are other options to pvp, and I take those avenues a lot more lately, because of the selfishness of some of the playerbase.
Before you say "but the game is built for large battles etc", it might have been, but it can't do it anymore, it can't handle that many people, and they can't fix it, or won't fix it. We as players have to take a small amount of ownership if we love and value this game.

frozywozy wrote: »

Ralamil wrote: »

Red_Nine wrote: »

Ralamil wrote: »

I don't get what the big deal is. AotP is just the natural response of a "leader" who's so impotent that his only means of being effective is stacking absolutely as many players on screen as he can and cause it to lag to hell. It's easy to be more effective when your enemies skills aren't firing and you have the numbers.

No but really, I never want to hear how other factions stack worse than EP ever again. xD

Maybe you'd have more fun in Battlegrounds or dueling then. Or maybe Shor is more your speed. Don't let a game make you so angry. It's not healthy. Surely you realize that complaining in the forums about it won't change anything. Let go, man, life is too short. A game is supposed to be fun. If you're not able to enjoy it, what's the point?

I do have fun in pvp. I can have fun and still generally think your guild is a cancer that isn't healthy to the game that's basically skating by in terms of performance by exploiting the poor server infrastructure.

Besides, if you were concerned about anyone's fun but your own, you'd let us use our skills every once in a while. Now kindly take your faux concern elsewhere. Maybe brush up on your smallman (1 raid or less, I guess) gameplay.

It's been said before that they enjoy running with large numbers. Even if they could get better and be successful with 12, they would still run with more because they like big raids. This being said, that would be fine, IF and only if the servers could handle it which is not the case. Glad they have been doing efforts to spread their raids in different directions but it should not be a "once in a while thing". it should be a 95% of the time kind of thing.

Some people are able to handle themselves pretty good in various scenarios, others not so well. The personal skill and ability to get better also differs from person to person.
I know some people that's been doing Cyrodiil for 3-4 years and still don't know how to break free from a CC, because they don't have the reaction time for it. Others don't have the situational awareness to avoid AoE being poured on them. Some people can't find their own heal button before it's too late.
While others can easily kill 3 opponents alone.
For many people being in a large groups, even if it is causing lag, is their only way to enjoy Cyrodiil. It's a way to even the odds in their favour. Put 20 skilled players against 30 ppl that can't break free/get out of AoE/can't heal themselves (or others) and those other 20 (or even less) will wreck them apart by sheer personal skill.
But to make it clear, you don't want to make it impossible for those others to enjoy their game? Because not everyone is able to learn to the same capacity, or even as fast, as someone else.

There's a difference between a 20 man group and multiple 24 man raids being put together by the same person/guild. No matter how awful you are, you don't need 50+ people, sorry.

That wasn't the point. The point was "But to make it clear, you don't want to make it impossible for those others to enjoy their game?".

But to answer you, if you're a group of 50+ people, where you have 10 people running around only doing light attack spams, 10 people can't avoid AoE and rush into negates, 10 people don't know how to break free from CC, then their 20 opponents should easily be able to handle it.
I'm build as a tank with debuffs (major+minor defile, major breach, 2 different kinds of AoE CCs). I rush into groups of people to make them easier to kill. If I have 9 others with me, doing a push from the flank, those pug-minded people usually run away because they have no sense of teamplay.
To them, they need the large group. Just like a school of fish gives better odds of survival.

Joy_Division

Thoragaal wrote: »

show previous quotes

Elong wrote: »

Red_Nine wrote: »

Ralamil wrote: »

I don't get what the big deal is. AotP is just the natural response of a "leader" who's so impotent that his only means of being effective is stacking absolutely as many players on screen as he can and cause it to lag to hell. It's easy to be more effective when your enemies skills aren't firing and you have the numbers.

No but really, I never want to hear how other factions stack worse than EP ever again. xD

Maybe you'd have more fun in Battlegrounds or dueling then. Or maybe Shor is more your speed. Don't let a game make you so angry. It's not healthy. Surely you realize that complaining in the forums about it won't change anything. Let go, man, life is too short. A game is supposed to be fun. If you're not able to enjoy it, what's the point?

Some of us aren't able to enjoy because certain players willingly stack 80 deep in the same place and cause lag. You know what your actions cause. I'm not angry about it, just disappointed. There are other options to pvp, and I take those avenues a lot more lately, because of the selfishness of some of the playerbase.
Before you say "but the game is built for large battles etc", it might have been, but it can't do it anymore, it can't handle that many people, and they can't fix it, or won't fix it. We as players have to take a small amount of ownership if we love and value this game.

show previous quotes

frozywozy wrote: »

Ralamil wrote: »

Red_Nine wrote: »

Ralamil wrote: »

I don't get what the big deal is. AotP is just the natural response of a "leader" who's so impotent that his only means of being effective is stacking absolutely as many players on screen as he can and cause it to lag to hell. It's easy to be more effective when your enemies skills aren't firing and you have the numbers.

No but really, I never want to hear how other factions stack worse than EP ever again. xD

Maybe you'd have more fun in Battlegrounds or dueling then. Or maybe Shor is more your speed. Don't let a game make you so angry. It's not healthy. Surely you realize that complaining in the forums about it won't change anything. Let go, man, life is too short. A game is supposed to be fun. If you're not able to enjoy it, what's the point?

I do have fun in pvp. I can have fun and still generally think your guild is a cancer that isn't healthy to the game that's basically skating by in terms of performance by exploiting the poor server infrastructure.

Besides, if you were concerned about anyone's fun but your own, you'd let us use our skills every once in a while. Now kindly take your faux concern elsewhere. Maybe brush up on your smallman (1 raid or less, I guess) gameplay.

It's been said before that they enjoy running with large numbers. Even if they could get better and be successful with 12, they would still run with more because they like big raids. This being said, that would be fine, IF and only if the servers could handle it which is not the case. Glad they have been doing efforts to spread their raids in different directions but it should not be a "once in a while thing". it should be a 95% of the time kind of thing.

Some people are able to handle themselves pretty good in various scenarios, others not so well. The personal skill and ability to get better also differs from person to person.
I know some people that's been doing Cyrodiil for 3-4 years and still don't know how to break free from a CC, because they don't have the reaction time for it. Others don't have the situational awareness to avoid AoE being poured on them. Some people can't find their own heal button before it's too late.
While others can easily kill 3 opponents alone.
For many people being in a large groups, even if it is causing lag, is their only way to enjoy Cyrodiil. It's a way to even the odds in their favour. Put 20 skilled players against 30 ppl that can't break free/get out of AoE/can't heal themselves (or others) and those other 20 (or even less) will wreck them apart by sheer personal skill.
But to make it clear, you don't want to make it impossible for those others to enjoy their game? Because not everyone is able to learn to the same capacity, or even as fast, as someone else.

Gonna stop you right there.

I'm the last person to point fingers at players for playing the game "wrong" or "irresponsibly," mostly because all of us are guilty of doing things at times that we know aren't the best for the game or the community. It happens from time to time for various circumstances and reasons. That being said:

All of us sucked at one point. The only way not to suck is to learn from mistakes, losses, and take off the proverbial training wheels and try to compete is situations beyond your skill level. It's humbling, it's frustrating, but it's a necessary step where there is no cutting corners. You don't need super fast twitch reactions or omniscience to enjoy Cyrodiil on your own. Rather, you need to the willingness to get kicked in the butt enough times and learn from it.

I get the appeal of playing in raid groups. It can be a lot of fun to have a legit impact on the map, whereas one person usually is just overwhelmed and zerged down. But when you state that's the "only way to enjoy Cyrodiil," that's way too exclusive and too narrow. It's A way, not the ONLY way. To have the perspective of the "only" way, that sounds like giving up on any other ways to play.

You as a player and your guild will be better off and find the game a lot more enjoyable under multiple circumstance if it is the occasional circumstance that prompts a unhealthy amount of players in a single spot at cyrodiil rather than a modus operandi.

DisgracefulMind

Thoragaal wrote: »

show previous quotes

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Thoragaal wrote: »

Elong wrote: »

Red_Nine wrote: »

Ralamil wrote: »

I don't get what the big deal is. AotP is just the natural response of a "leader" who's so impotent that his only means of being effective is stacking absolutely as many players on screen as he can and cause it to lag to hell. It's easy to be more effective when your enemies skills aren't firing and you have the numbers.

No but really, I never want to hear how other factions stack worse than EP ever again. xD

Maybe you'd have more fun in Battlegrounds or dueling then. Or maybe Shor is more your speed. Don't let a game make you so angry. It's not healthy. Surely you realize that complaining in the forums about it won't change anything. Let go, man, life is too short. A game is supposed to be fun. If you're not able to enjoy it, what's the point?

Some of us aren't able to enjoy because certain players willingly stack 80 deep in the same place and cause lag. You know what your actions cause. I'm not angry about it, just disappointed. There are other options to pvp, and I take those avenues a lot more lately, because of the selfishness of some of the playerbase.
Before you say "but the game is built for large battles etc", it might have been, but it can't do it anymore, it can't handle that many people, and they can't fix it, or won't fix it. We as players have to take a small amount of ownership if we love and value this game.

frozywozy wrote: »

Ralamil wrote: »

Red_Nine wrote: »

Ralamil wrote: »

I don't get what the big deal is. AotP is just the natural response of a "leader" who's so impotent that his only means of being effective is stacking absolutely as many players on screen as he can and cause it to lag to hell. It's easy to be more effective when your enemies skills aren't firing and you have the numbers.

No but really, I never want to hear how other factions stack worse than EP ever again. xD

Maybe you'd have more fun in Battlegrounds or dueling then. Or maybe Shor is more your speed. Don't let a game make you so angry. It's not healthy. Surely you realize that complaining in the forums about it won't change anything. Let go, man, life is too short. A game is supposed to be fun. If you're not able to enjoy it, what's the point?

I do have fun in pvp. I can have fun and still generally think your guild is a cancer that isn't healthy to the game that's basically skating by in terms of performance by exploiting the poor server infrastructure.

Besides, if you were concerned about anyone's fun but your own, you'd let us use our skills every once in a while. Now kindly take your faux concern elsewhere. Maybe brush up on your smallman (1 raid or less, I guess) gameplay.

It's been said before that they enjoy running with large numbers. Even if they could get better and be successful with 12, they would still run with more because they like big raids. This being said, that would be fine, IF and only if the servers could handle it which is not the case. Glad they have been doing efforts to spread their raids in different directions but it should not be a "once in a while thing". it should be a 95% of the time kind of thing.

Some people are able to handle themselves pretty good in various scenarios, others not so well. The personal skill and ability to get better also differs from person to person.
I know some people that's been doing Cyrodiil for 3-4 years and still don't know how to break free from a CC, because they don't have the reaction time for it. Others don't have the situational awareness to avoid AoE being poured on them. Some people can't find their own heal button before it's too late.
While others can easily kill 3 opponents alone.
For many people being in a large groups, even if it is causing lag, is their only way to enjoy Cyrodiil. It's a way to even the odds in their favour. Put 20 skilled players against 30 ppl that can't break free/get out of AoE/can't heal themselves (or others) and those other 20 (or even less) will wreck them apart by sheer personal skill.
But to make it clear, you don't want to make it impossible for those others to enjoy their game? Because not everyone is able to learn to the same capacity, or even as fast, as someone else.

There's a difference between a 20 man group and multiple 24 man raids being put together by the same person/guild. No matter how awful you are, you don't need 50+ people, sorry.

That wasn't the point. The point was "But to make it clear, you don't want to make it impossible for those others to enjoy their game?".

But to answer you, if you're a group of 50+ people, where you have 10 people running around only doing light attack spams, 10 people can't avoid AoE and rush into negates, 10 people don't know how to break free from CC, then their 20 opponents should easily be able to handle it.
I'm build as a tank with debuffs (major+minor defile, major breach, 2 different kinds of AoE CCs). I rush into groups of people to make them easier to kill. If I have 9 others with me, doing a push from the flank, those pug-minded people usually run away because they have no sense of teamplay.
To them, they need the large group. Just like a school of fish gives better odds of survival.

To make it clear, group caps should be pushed down to 12, and this nonsense needs to stop. The game may have been advertised for "big and epic" battles, but, let's be real, the servers can't handle it. We all know this. If you've played ESO, you know this.

They don't need a larger group, they need to learn how to play at least somewhat. I understand this is a game, and we're all here to have fun, but there's some extremities, and I'd say Army of the Pact is an unnecessary extremity. No one needs that amount of people to play, no one.

Ralamil

Thoragaal wrote: »

Some people are able to handle themselves pretty good in various scenarios, others not so well. The personal skill and ability to get better also differs from person to person.
I know some people that's been doing Cyrodiil for 3-4 years and still don't know how to break free from a CC, because they don't have the reaction time for it. Others don't have the situational awareness to avoid AoE being poured on them. Some people can't find their own heal button before it's too late.
While others can easily kill 3 opponents alone.
For many people being in a large groups, even if it is causing lag, is their only way to enjoy Cyrodiil. It's a way to even the odds in their favour. Put 20 skilled players against 30 ppl that can't break free/get out of AoE/can't heal themselves (or others) and those other 20 (or even less) will wreck them apart by sheer personal skill.
But to make it clear, you don't want to make it impossible for those others to enjoy their game? Because not everyone is able to learn to the same capacity, or even as fast, as someone else.

I feel that there's little room for personal growth when you willingly tank the server performance to a degree that basic functions of the game no longer work as and when intended.

I don't think stacking in a group of 80 is the ONLY way for some players to enjoy the game and excel, even for the most technically-challenged players among the player base. I do, however, think it's an "easy out" and a very selfish desire to willingly say "screw the server performance and other players, this is the only way I shine... in a horde of 80."

There are more than enough EP players out there to spread the raids and take multiple objectives effectively. It's just that AotP isn't in this to help anyone on the server, their own people included. Given their unsportsmanlike behavior in-game (rampant teabagging, etc), they're in it to *** over the server and get their jollies that way.

Elong

Thoragaal wrote: »

show previous quotes

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Thoragaal wrote: »

Elong wrote: »

Red_Nine wrote: »

Ralamil wrote: »

I don't get what the big deal is. AotP is just the natural response of a "leader" who's so impotent that his only means of being effective is stacking absolutely as many players on screen as he can and cause it to lag to hell. It's easy to be more effective when your enemies skills aren't firing and you have the numbers.

No but really, I never want to hear how other factions stack worse than EP ever again. xD

Maybe you'd have more fun in Battlegrounds or dueling then. Or maybe Shor is more your speed. Don't let a game make you so angry. It's not healthy. Surely you realize that complaining in the forums about it won't change anything. Let go, man, life is too short. A game is supposed to be fun. If you're not able to enjoy it, what's the point?

Some of us aren't able to enjoy because certain players willingly stack 80 deep in the same place and cause lag. You know what your actions cause. I'm not angry about it, just disappointed. There are other options to pvp, and I take those avenues a lot more lately, because of the selfishness of some of the playerbase.
Before you say "but the game is built for large battles etc", it might have been, but it can't do it anymore, it can't handle that many people, and they can't fix it, or won't fix it. We as players have to take a small amount of ownership if we love and value this game.

frozywozy wrote: »

Ralamil wrote: »

Red_Nine wrote: »

Ralamil wrote: »

I don't get what the big deal is. AotP is just the natural response of a "leader" who's so impotent that his only means of being effective is stacking absolutely as many players on screen as he can and cause it to lag to hell. It's easy to be more effective when your enemies skills aren't firing and you have the numbers.

No but really, I never want to hear how other factions stack worse than EP ever again. xD

Maybe you'd have more fun in Battlegrounds or dueling then. Or maybe Shor is more your speed. Don't let a game make you so angry. It's not healthy. Surely you realize that complaining in the forums about it won't change anything. Let go, man, life is too short. A game is supposed to be fun. If you're not able to enjoy it, what's the point?

I do have fun in pvp. I can have fun and still generally think your guild is a cancer that isn't healthy to the game that's basically skating by in terms of performance by exploiting the poor server infrastructure.

Besides, if you were concerned about anyone's fun but your own, you'd let us use our skills every once in a while. Now kindly take your faux concern elsewhere. Maybe brush up on your smallman (1 raid or less, I guess) gameplay.

It's been said before that they enjoy running with large numbers. Even if they could get better and be successful with 12, they would still run with more because they like big raids. This being said, that would be fine, IF and only if the servers could handle it which is not the case. Glad they have been doing efforts to spread their raids in different directions but it should not be a "once in a while thing". it should be a 95% of the time kind of thing.

Some people are able to handle themselves pretty good in various scenarios, others not so well. The personal skill and ability to get better also differs from person to person.
I know some people that's been doing Cyrodiil for 3-4 years and still don't know how to break free from a CC, because they don't have the reaction time for it. Others don't have the situational awareness to avoid AoE being poured on them. Some people can't find their own heal button before it's too late.
While others can easily kill 3 opponents alone.
For many people being in a large groups, even if it is causing lag, is their only way to enjoy Cyrodiil. It's a way to even the odds in their favour. Put 20 skilled players against 30 ppl that can't break free/get out of AoE/can't heal themselves (or others) and those other 20 (or even less) will wreck them apart by sheer personal skill.
But to make it clear, you don't want to make it impossible for those others to enjoy their game? Because not everyone is able to learn to the same capacity, or even as fast, as someone else.

There's a difference between a 20 man group and multiple 24 man raids being put together by the same person/guild. No matter how awful you are, you don't need 50+ people, sorry.

That wasn't the point. The point was "But to make it clear, you don't want to make it impossible for those others to enjoy their game?".

But to answer you, if you're a group of 50+ people, where you have 10 people running around only doing light attack spams, 10 people can't avoid AoE and rush into negates, 10 people don't know how to break free from CC, then their 20 opponents should easily be able to handle it.
I'm build as a tank with debuffs (major+minor defile, major breach, 2 different kinds of AoE CCs). I rush into groups of people to make them easier to kill. If I have 9 others with me, doing a push from the flank, those pug-minded people usually run away because they have no sense of teamplay.
To them, they need the large group. Just like a school of fish gives better odds of survival.

If there wasn't so much lag caused by the 50 people (fyi let's call it 72 people and be honest here for one moment please) then yes I believe 10 people would happily wipe them.
So the latest crutch for bad players is to use the lag to their advantage. I just find that sad. I understand people have varying levels of skill and some may not learn as fast as others. But you do not learn anything standing in a group of 72. If people don't want to learn that is totally fine too but there has to be an understanding that this style of gameplay is affecting everybody.
I'm trying to be as polite as possible about this.

Dreyloch

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

show previous quotes

Thoragaal wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Thoragaal wrote: »

Elong wrote: »

Red_Nine wrote: »

Ralamil wrote: »

I don't get what the big deal is. AotP is just the natural response of a "leader" who's so impotent that his only means of being effective is stacking absolutely as many players on screen as he can and cause it to lag to hell. It's easy to be more effective when your enemies skills aren't firing and you have the numbers.

No but really, I never want to hear how other factions stack worse than EP ever again. xD

Maybe you'd have more fun in Battlegrounds or dueling then. Or maybe Shor is more your speed. Don't let a game make you so angry. It's not healthy. Surely you realize that complaining in the forums about it won't change anything. Let go, man, life is too short. A game is supposed to be fun. If you're not able to enjoy it, what's the point?

Some of us aren't able to enjoy because certain players willingly stack 80 deep in the same place and cause lag. You know what your actions cause. I'm not angry about it, just disappointed. There are other options to pvp, and I take those avenues a lot more lately, because of the selfishness of some of the playerbase.
Before you say "but the game is built for large battles etc", it might have been, but it can't do it anymore, it can't handle that many people, and they can't fix it, or won't fix it. We as players have to take a small amount of ownership if we love and value this game.

frozywozy wrote: »

Ralamil wrote: »

Red_Nine wrote: »

Ralamil wrote: »

I don't get what the big deal is. AotP is just the natural response of a "leader" who's so impotent that his only means of being effective is stacking absolutely as many players on screen as he can and cause it to lag to hell. It's easy to be more effective when your enemies skills aren't firing and you have the numbers.

No but really, I never want to hear how other factions stack worse than EP ever again. xD

Maybe you'd have more fun in Battlegrounds or dueling then. Or maybe Shor is more your speed. Don't let a game make you so angry. It's not healthy. Surely you realize that complaining in the forums about it won't change anything. Let go, man, life is too short. A game is supposed to be fun. If you're not able to enjoy it, what's the point?

I do have fun in pvp. I can have fun and still generally think your guild is a cancer that isn't healthy to the game that's basically skating by in terms of performance by exploiting the poor server infrastructure.

Besides, if you were concerned about anyone's fun but your own, you'd let us use our skills every once in a while. Now kindly take your faux concern elsewhere. Maybe brush up on your smallman (1 raid or less, I guess) gameplay.

It's been said before that they enjoy running with large numbers. Even if they could get better and be successful with 12, they would still run with more because they like big raids. This being said, that would be fine, IF and only if the servers could handle it which is not the case. Glad they have been doing efforts to spread their raids in different directions but it should not be a "once in a while thing". it should be a 95% of the time kind of thing.

Some people are able to handle themselves pretty good in various scenarios, others not so well. The personal skill and ability to get better also differs from person to person.
I know some people that's been doing Cyrodiil for 3-4 years and still don't know how to break free from a CC, because they don't have the reaction time for it. Others don't have the situational awareness to avoid AoE being poured on them. Some people can't find their own heal button before it's too late.
While others can easily kill 3 opponents alone.
For many people being in a large groups, even if it is causing lag, is their only way to enjoy Cyrodiil. It's a way to even the odds in their favour. Put 20 skilled players against 30 ppl that can't break free/get out of AoE/can't heal themselves (or others) and those other 20 (or even less) will wreck them apart by sheer personal skill.
But to make it clear, you don't want to make it impossible for those others to enjoy their game? Because not everyone is able to learn to the same capacity, or even as fast, as someone else.

There's a difference between a 20 man group and multiple 24 man raids being put together by the same person/guild. No matter how awful you are, you don't need 50+ people, sorry.

That wasn't the point. The point was "But to make it clear, you don't want to make it impossible for those others to enjoy their game?".

But to answer you, if you're a group of 50+ people, where you have 10 people running around only doing light attack spams, 10 people can't avoid AoE and rush into negates, 10 people don't know how to break free from CC, then their 20 opponents should easily be able to handle it.
I'm build as a tank with debuffs (major+minor defile, major breach, 2 different kinds of AoE CCs). I rush into groups of people to make them easier to kill. If I have 9 others with me, doing a push from the flank, those pug-minded people usually run away because they have no sense of teamplay.
To them, they need the large group. Just like a school of fish gives better odds of survival.

To make it clear, group caps should be pushed down to 12, and this nonsense needs to stop. The game may have been advertised for "big and epic" battles, but, let's be real, the servers can't handle it. We all know this. If you've played ESO, you know this.

They don't need a larger group, they need to learn how to play at least somewhat. I understand this is a game, and we're all here to have fun, but there's some extremities, and I'd say Army of the Pact is an unnecessary extremity. No one needs that amount of people to play, no one.

You could push it down to 4 ppl per group. Thing is, almost every organized guild has voice comms. That's something ZoS can't do anything about. There's no stopping 100 ppl from being in a discord and still managing to have overwhelming numbers in one spot on the map. It would only make healing and buffs less effective. But it would also do the same for any opposing force too. There's a LOT of dead weight in those 24 man raids. Ppl in load screens, going afk across the map, lagging behind and not getting rapids to keep up, turning in every completed quests between every battle and not being able to get back to the grp. Plenty of reasons why a larger group works, and plenty why they hurt the server performance. There's also nothing stopping any faction from doing the same thing. Working together AS a faction to get stuff done. Be it one guild or 3 different ones running to the same objective. It's all the same. The time imo for 12 man highly specialized groups is becoming more and more impossible to keep up. Not everyone wants to have their gear and skills restricted because your simply playing in a group. I've played that way. Told to have certain gear sets, what skills needed to be loaded. It can be fun!Don't get me wrong. But it gets old and your pretty defenseless if your caught alone.

This might be part of the factoring of why AoTP has gained such momentum. Simple safety in numbers, and blitzkrieging the map without all the restrictions many other guilds want to force on you. Honestly, I'd like to see the other factions doing the same. Maybe crashing the server a few times in the process so ZoS might finally take notice and fix it =/ Not that i like this method, just saying nothing else seems to be getting done about it.

Thoragaal

Joy_Division wrote: »

show previous quotes

Thoragaal wrote: »

Elong wrote: »

Red_Nine wrote: »

Ralamil wrote: »

I don't get what the big deal is. AotP is just the natural response of a "leader" who's so impotent that his only means of being effective is stacking absolutely as many players on screen as he can and cause it to lag to hell. It's easy to be more effective when your enemies skills aren't firing and you have the numbers.

No but really, I never want to hear how other factions stack worse than EP ever again. xD

Maybe you'd have more fun in Battlegrounds or dueling then. Or maybe Shor is more your speed. Don't let a game make you so angry. It's not healthy. Surely you realize that complaining in the forums about it won't change anything. Let go, man, life is too short. A game is supposed to be fun. If you're not able to enjoy it, what's the point?

Some of us aren't able to enjoy because certain players willingly stack 80 deep in the same place and cause lag. You know what your actions cause. I'm not angry about it, just disappointed. There are other options to pvp, and I take those avenues a lot more lately, because of the selfishness of some of the playerbase.
Before you say "but the game is built for large battles etc", it might have been, but it can't do it anymore, it can't handle that many people, and they can't fix it, or won't fix it. We as players have to take a small amount of ownership if we love and value this game.

frozywozy wrote: »

Ralamil wrote: »

Red_Nine wrote: »

Ralamil wrote: »

I don't get what the big deal is. AotP is just the natural response of a "leader" who's so impotent that his only means of being effective is stacking absolutely as many players on screen as he can and cause it to lag to hell. It's easy to be more effective when your enemies skills aren't firing and you have the numbers.

No but really, I never want to hear how other factions stack worse than EP ever again. xD

Maybe you'd have more fun in Battlegrounds or dueling then. Or maybe Shor is more your speed. Don't let a game make you so angry. It's not healthy. Surely you realize that complaining in the forums about it won't change anything. Let go, man, life is too short. A game is supposed to be fun. If you're not able to enjoy it, what's the point?

I do have fun in pvp. I can have fun and still generally think your guild is a cancer that isn't healthy to the game that's basically skating by in terms of performance by exploiting the poor server infrastructure.

Besides, if you were concerned about anyone's fun but your own, you'd let us use our skills every once in a while. Now kindly take your faux concern elsewhere. Maybe brush up on your smallman (1 raid or less, I guess) gameplay.

It's been said before that they enjoy running with large numbers. Even if they could get better and be successful with 12, they would still run with more because they like big raids. This being said, that would be fine, IF and only if the servers could handle it which is not the case. Glad they have been doing efforts to spread their raids in different directions but it should not be a "once in a while thing". it should be a 95% of the time kind of thing.

Some people are able to handle themselves pretty good in various scenarios, others not so well. The personal skill and ability to get better also differs from person to person.
I know some people that's been doing Cyrodiil for 3-4 years and still don't know how to break free from a CC, because they don't have the reaction time for it. Others don't have the situational awareness to avoid AoE being poured on them. Some people can't find their own heal button before it's too late.
While others can easily kill 3 opponents alone.
For many people being in a large groups, even if it is causing lag, is their only way to enjoy Cyrodiil. It's a way to even the odds in their favour. Put 20 skilled players against 30 ppl that can't break free/get out of AoE/can't heal themselves (or others) and those other 20 (or even less) will wreck them apart by sheer personal skill.
But to make it clear, you don't want to make it impossible for those others to enjoy their game? Because not everyone is able to learn to the same capacity, or even as fast, as someone else.

Gonna stop you right there.

I'm the last person to point fingers at players for playing the game "wrong" or "irresponsibly," mostly because all of us are guilty of doing things at times that we know aren't the best for the game or the community. It happens from time to time for various circumstances and reasons. That being said:

All of us sucked at one point. The only way not to suck is to learn from mistakes, losses, and take off the proverbial training wheels and try to compete is situations beyond your skill level. It's humbling, it's frustrating, but it's a necessary step where there is no cutting corners. You don't need super fast twitch reactions or omniscience to enjoy Cyrodiil on your own. Rather, you need to the willingness to get kicked in the butt enough times and learn from it.

I get the appeal of playing in raid groups. It can be a lot of fun to have a legit impact on the map, whereas one person usually is just overwhelmed and zerged down. But when you state that's the "only way to enjoy Cyrodiil," that's way too exclusive and too narrow. It's A way, not the ONLY way. To have the perspective of the "only" way, that sounds like giving up on any other ways to play.

You as a player and your guild will be better off and find the game a lot more enjoyable under multiple circumstance if it is the occasional circumstance that prompts a unhealthy amount of players in a single spot at cyrodiil rather than a modus operandi.

You can learn from mutliple different approaches. Personally I observe first and foremost.
In a large scale situation I would therefor observe how the enemy, as a group, behave, and how my group, as the attacker, behave and do it vice versa (when we're defending). Point being that not everyone approaches a problem similarily.

I said "...impossible for those others to enjoy their game?". It was an intentional question.
Because, like I said, that's how I am as a person and also as a player. I observe, carefully first hand, before getting into anything. I enjoy large scale combat, I get more information with a group where I know there are healers or a tank that can take a beating and won't run away if he/she is being attacked.
This is ofc 1-2 years ago when I first got into Cyrodiil. This is no longer the case. But that's how and where I learned about Cyrodiil. I know I can handle myself with and without a group now. I probably pay more attention to enemy movement than someone that's mostly playing small scale/solo, but the small scale/solo player is probably paying more attention to his closest friends or their own resources, while I go /shout to try and save as many attackers as much as possible when being flanked.

Point being that not everyone learns the same way and people have different approaches to get by an obstacle. Grouping up is one of them, hence why my question

Also, there is a max capacity of siege weapons, that means beyond a certain point of attackers they lose effeciency by not spreading out. You can use this to your advantage and take keeps more effeciently, if you had a more organized group at your own disposal. If you were to create something similar and make tactical decissions to spread out on keeps, the enemy will be forced to spread out too or they will start losing an insane amount of points.

VaranisArano

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

show previous quotes

Thoragaal wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Thoragaal wrote: »

Elong wrote: »

Red_Nine wrote: »

Ralamil wrote: »

I don't get what the big deal is. AotP is just the natural response of a "leader" who's so impotent that his only means of being effective is stacking absolutely as many players on screen as he can and cause it to lag to hell. It's easy to be more effective when your enemies skills aren't firing and you have the numbers.

No but really, I never want to hear how other factions stack worse than EP ever again. xD

Maybe you'd have more fun in Battlegrounds or dueling then. Or maybe Shor is more your speed. Don't let a game make you so angry. It's not healthy. Surely you realize that complaining in the forums about it won't change anything. Let go, man, life is too short. A game is supposed to be fun. If you're not able to enjoy it, what's the point?

Some of us aren't able to enjoy because certain players willingly stack 80 deep in the same place and cause lag. You know what your actions cause. I'm not angry about it, just disappointed. There are other options to pvp, and I take those avenues a lot more lately, because of the selfishness of some of the playerbase.
Before you say "but the game is built for large battles etc", it might have been, but it can't do it anymore, it can't handle that many people, and they can't fix it, or won't fix it. We as players have to take a small amount of ownership if we love and value this game.

frozywozy wrote: »

Ralamil wrote: »

Red_Nine wrote: »

Ralamil wrote: »

I don't get what the big deal is. AotP is just the natural response of a "leader" who's so impotent that his only means of being effective is stacking absolutely as many players on screen as he can and cause it to lag to hell. It's easy to be more effective when your enemies skills aren't firing and you have the numbers.

No but really, I never want to hear how other factions stack worse than EP ever again. xD

Maybe you'd have more fun in Battlegrounds or dueling then. Or maybe Shor is more your speed. Don't let a game make you so angry. It's not healthy. Surely you realize that complaining in the forums about it won't change anything. Let go, man, life is too short. A game is supposed to be fun. If you're not able to enjoy it, what's the point?

I do have fun in pvp. I can have fun and still generally think your guild is a cancer that isn't healthy to the game that's basically skating by in terms of performance by exploiting the poor server infrastructure.

Besides, if you were concerned about anyone's fun but your own, you'd let us use our skills every once in a while. Now kindly take your faux concern elsewhere. Maybe brush up on your smallman (1 raid or less, I guess) gameplay.

It's been said before that they enjoy running with large numbers. Even if they could get better and be successful with 12, they would still run with more because they like big raids. This being said, that would be fine, IF and only if the servers could handle it which is not the case. Glad they have been doing efforts to spread their raids in different directions but it should not be a "once in a while thing". it should be a 95% of the time kind of thing.

Some people are able to handle themselves pretty good in various scenarios, others not so well. The personal skill and ability to get better also differs from person to person.
I know some people that's been doing Cyrodiil for 3-4 years and still don't know how to break free from a CC, because they don't have the reaction time for it. Others don't have the situational awareness to avoid AoE being poured on them. Some people can't find their own heal button before it's too late.
While others can easily kill 3 opponents alone.
For many people being in a large groups, even if it is causing lag, is their only way to enjoy Cyrodiil. It's a way to even the odds in their favour. Put 20 skilled players against 30 ppl that can't break free/get out of AoE/can't heal themselves (or others) and those other 20 (or even less) will wreck them apart by sheer personal skill.
But to make it clear, you don't want to make it impossible for those others to enjoy their game? Because not everyone is able to learn to the same capacity, or even as fast, as someone else.

There's a difference between a 20 man group and multiple 24 man raids being put together by the same person/guild. No matter how awful you are, you don't need 50+ people, sorry.

That wasn't the point. The point was "But to make it clear, you don't want to make it impossible for those others to enjoy their game?".

But to answer you, if you're a group of 50+ people, where you have 10 people running around only doing light attack spams, 10 people can't avoid AoE and rush into negates, 10 people don't know how to break free from CC, then their 20 opponents should easily be able to handle it.
I'm build as a tank with debuffs (major+minor defile, major breach, 2 different kinds of AoE CCs). I rush into groups of people to make them easier to kill. If I have 9 others with me, doing a push from the flank, those pug-minded people usually run away because they have no sense of teamplay.
To them, they need the large group. Just like a school of fish gives better odds of survival.

To make it clear, group caps should be pushed down to 12, and this nonsense needs to stop. The game may have been advertised for "big and epic" battles, but, let's be real, the servers can't handle it. We all know this. If you've played ESO, you know this.

They don't need a larger group, they need to learn how to play at least somewhat. I understand this is a game, and we're all here to have fun, but there's some extremities, and I'd say Army of the Pact is an unnecessary extremity. No one needs that amount of people to play, no one.

Lowering group caps isnt going to prevent zerging. There's the joke about "DC never zergs! Those are all 4-man groups. All 20 of them."

All it takes to get enough players in one place to tank the server is to have an important objective, like a heavily contested keep, a dethrone, an Emperorship, or a scroll take.

Thoragaal

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

To make it clear, group caps should be pushed down to 12, and this nonsense needs to stop. The game may have been advertised for "big and epic" battles, but, let's be real, the servers can't handle it. We all know this. If you've played ESO, you know this.

Even if you had a group cap of 12 people between different groups would still be able to communicate. Even if you removed groups entierly there's still the zone chat, guild chat, and various types of voice-coms.
And yeah, I know the game can't handle it. Personally I don't even play during the peak hours because of lag-fests.

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

They don't need a larger group, they need to learn how to play at least somewhat. I understand this is a game, and we're all here to have fun, but there's some extremities, and I'd say Army of the Pact is an unnecessary extremity. No one needs that amount of people to play, no one.

If the enemy will bring X-amount of people to take your keep, how many defenders would you put there?
You can't answer without knowing how many people the enemy has. Same goes for the attacker. The attacker will bring as many as he/she think is needed. Unless it's an organically formed zerg group and you just have to blame our human biology for that.

Thoragaal

Elong wrote: »

If there wasn't so much lag caused by the 50 people (fyi let's call it 72 people and be honest here for one moment please) then yes I believe 10 people would happily wipe them.
So the latest crutch for bad players is to use the lag to their advantage. I just find that sad. I understand people have varying levels of skill and some may not learn as fast as others. But you do not learn anything standing in a group of 72. If people don't want to learn that is totally fine too but there has to be an understanding that this style of gameplay is affecting everybody.
I'm trying to be as polite as possible about this.

"If there wasn't so much lag caused by the 50 people (fyi let's call it 72 people and be honest here for one moment please) then yes I believe 10 people would happily wipe them."
You could say they are 20, or even 150, I don't know, I don't play on NA. I'm not making an argument to if AotP is doing a good or a bad thing. Never have. I'm arguing about the lack of perspective for the individual differences in choice people make, and how most people here seem to assume that every single individual in AotP (or any guild for that matter) consciously wants to bring on the lag as their exclusive motivation.

"So the latest crutch for bad players is to use the lag to their advantage. I just find that sad"
Are they? Or could there other reasons to why people join in? If they are then I think they should be banned for it. But it needs proof, not just assumptions and strawman arguments.

"But you do not learn anything standing in a group of 72"
Really? Maybe they learn less of what You, personally, view as important to yourself. But that doesn't mean they don't learn anything from it. I learned a great deal of how to outplay bigger groups of people from doing it. And I'm now using it to my advantage to push back attackers, while the squishy people hang out in the back. I also know that pugs will usually rush into a keep, straight into AoE and die, but saving those players can be extremely useful. That's why I'm tanky, bringing buffs/debuffs and heals, but I'm completely useless in 1on1 with my current build.
If I can make "my group" achieve our goal, with the cost of my life as a result, then it's all good. We defended/took that keep. Because I could give everyone some Major Protection to more safely reach the backflag, all while giving everyone around me a 67% Defile and Major Breach to people infront of me to increase dmg against the enemy.

ShadowProc

Simple solution. Since they want to ruin every one else’s fun then Drac log on your AD toons when they pull this BS and wipe them over and over.

I joke but older games you did crap on purpose then the community would hold u accountable. Unreal this generation thinks it’s funny to tank a game on purpose with literally zero skill involved.

Joy_Division

Thoragaal wrote: »

show previous quotes

Joy_Division wrote: »

Thoragaal wrote: »

Elong wrote: »

Red_Nine wrote: »

Ralamil wrote: »

I don't get what the big deal is. AotP is just the natural response of a "leader" who's so impotent that his only means of being effective is stacking absolutely as many players on screen as he can and cause it to lag to hell. It's easy to be more effective when your enemies skills aren't firing and you have the numbers.

No but really, I never want to hear how other factions stack worse than EP ever again. xD

Maybe you'd have more fun in Battlegrounds or dueling then. Or maybe Shor is more your speed. Don't let a game make you so angry. It's not healthy. Surely you realize that complaining in the forums about it won't change anything. Let go, man, life is too short. A game is supposed to be fun. If you're not able to enjoy it, what's the point?

Some of us aren't able to enjoy because certain players willingly stack 80 deep in the same place and cause lag. You know what your actions cause. I'm not angry about it, just disappointed. There are other options to pvp, and I take those avenues a lot more lately, because of the selfishness of some of the playerbase.
Before you say "but the game is built for large battles etc", it might have been, but it can't do it anymore, it can't handle that many people, and they can't fix it, or won't fix it. We as players have to take a small amount of ownership if we love and value this game.

frozywozy wrote: »

Ralamil wrote: »

Red_Nine wrote: »

Ralamil wrote: »

I don't get what the big deal is. AotP is just the natural response of a "leader" who's so impotent that his only means of being effective is stacking absolutely as many players on screen as he can and cause it to lag to hell. It's easy to be more effective when your enemies skills aren't firing and you have the numbers.

No but really, I never want to hear how other factions stack worse than EP ever again. xD

Maybe you'd have more fun in Battlegrounds or dueling then. Or maybe Shor is more your speed. Don't let a game make you so angry. It's not healthy. Surely you realize that complaining in the forums about it won't change anything. Let go, man, life is too short. A game is supposed to be fun. If you're not able to enjoy it, what's the point?

I do have fun in pvp. I can have fun and still generally think your guild is a cancer that isn't healthy to the game that's basically skating by in terms of performance by exploiting the poor server infrastructure.

Besides, if you were concerned about anyone's fun but your own, you'd let us use our skills every once in a while. Now kindly take your faux concern elsewhere. Maybe brush up on your smallman (1 raid or less, I guess) gameplay.

It's been said before that they enjoy running with large numbers. Even if they could get better and be successful with 12, they would still run with more because they like big raids. This being said, that would be fine, IF and only if the servers could handle it which is not the case. Glad they have been doing efforts to spread their raids in different directions but it should not be a "once in a while thing". it should be a 95% of the time kind of thing.

Some people are able to handle themselves pretty good in various scenarios, others not so well. The personal skill and ability to get better also differs from person to person.
I know some people that's been doing Cyrodiil for 3-4 years and still don't know how to break free from a CC, because they don't have the reaction time for it. Others don't have the situational awareness to avoid AoE being poured on them. Some people can't find their own heal button before it's too late.
While others can easily kill 3 opponents alone.
For many people being in a large groups, even if it is causing lag, is their only way to enjoy Cyrodiil. It's a way to even the odds in their favour. Put 20 skilled players against 30 ppl that can't break free/get out of AoE/can't heal themselves (or others) and those other 20 (or even less) will wreck them apart by sheer personal skill.
But to make it clear, you don't want to make it impossible for those others to enjoy their game? Because not everyone is able to learn to the same capacity, or even as fast, as someone else.

Gonna stop you right there.

I'm the last person to point fingers at players for playing the game "wrong" or "irresponsibly," mostly because all of us are guilty of doing things at times that we know aren't the best for the game or the community. It happens from time to time for various circumstances and reasons. That being said:

All of us sucked at one point. The only way not to suck is to learn from mistakes, losses, and take off the proverbial training wheels and try to compete is situations beyond your skill level. It's humbling, it's frustrating, but it's a necessary step where there is no cutting corners. You don't need super fast twitch reactions or omniscience to enjoy Cyrodiil on your own. Rather, you need to the willingness to get kicked in the butt enough times and learn from it.

I get the appeal of playing in raid groups. It can be a lot of fun to have a legit impact on the map, whereas one person usually is just overwhelmed and zerged down. But when you state that's the "only way to enjoy Cyrodiil," that's way too exclusive and too narrow. It's A way, not the ONLY way. To have the perspective of the "only" way, that sounds like giving up on any other ways to play.

You as a player and your guild will be better off and find the game a lot more enjoyable under multiple circumstance if it is the occasional circumstance that prompts a unhealthy amount of players in a single spot at cyrodiil rather than a modus operandi.

You can learn from mutliple different approaches. Personally I observe first and foremost.
In a large scale situation I would therefor observe how the enemy, as a group, behave, and how my group, as the attacker, behave and do it vice versa (when we're defending). Point being that not everyone approaches a problem similarily.

I said "...impossible for those others to enjoy their game?". It was an intentional question.
Because, like I said, that's how I am as a person and also as a player. I observe, carefully first hand, before getting into anything. I enjoy large scale combat, I get more information with a group where I know there are healers or a tank that can take a beating and won't run away if he/she is being attacked.
This is ofc 1-2 years ago when I first got into Cyrodiil. This is no longer the case. But that's how and where I learned about Cyrodiil. I know I can handle myself with and without a group now. I probably pay more attention to enemy movement than someone that's mostly playing small scale/solo, but the small scale/solo player is probably paying more attention to his closest friends or their own resources, while I go /shout to try and save as many attackers as much as possible when being flanked.

Point being that not everyone learns the same way and people have different approaches to get by an obstacle. Grouping up is one of them, hence why my question

Also, there is a max capacity of siege weapons, that means beyond a certain point of attackers they lose effeciency by not spreading out. You can use this to your advantage and take keeps more effeciently, if you had a more organized group at your own disposal. If you were to create something similar and make tactical decissions to spread out on keeps, the enemy will be forced to spread out too or they will start losing an insane amount of points.

Things are being made too complicated here.

Most of the people here aren't saying that you are ruining people's enjoyment for making groups bigger than 4 (although undoubtedly some exist). People can group, have fun, learn, and have an impact on the map. It's fine. It's cool. It's part of the game.

Rather, the issue arises when stacking 50+ is seen as a matter of routine and as a standard operating procedure.

No, I don't want to make it impossible for other people to enjoy their game. That's why I generally don't accuse people of playing "wrong" or irresponsibly. Group up, totally fine with that. And I recognize there are instances where too many people are going to be in one spot and often it's not intentional. It happens. It's fine. all I am saying is that stacking 50+ should not become habit and seen as a tactic to win. Because at that point there is zero learning going on at all as the only lesson to be drawn when 3/4 the population is stacked at a single objective is that ZOS's servers can't handle it.

Thoragaal

Joy_Division wrote: »

show previous quotes

Thoragaal wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Thoragaal wrote: »

Elong wrote: »

Red_Nine wrote: »

Ralamil wrote: »

I don't get what the big deal is. AotP is just the natural response of a "leader" who's so impotent that his only means of being effective is stacking absolutely as many players on screen as he can and cause it to lag to hell. It's easy to be more effective when your enemies skills aren't firing and you have the numbers.

No but really, I never want to hear how other factions stack worse than EP ever again. xD

Maybe you'd have more fun in Battlegrounds or dueling then. Or maybe Shor is more your speed. Don't let a game make you so angry. It's not healthy. Surely you realize that complaining in the forums about it won't change anything. Let go, man, life is too short. A game is supposed to be fun. If you're not able to enjoy it, what's the point?

Some of us aren't able to enjoy because certain players willingly stack 80 deep in the same place and cause lag. You know what your actions cause. I'm not angry about it, just disappointed. There are other options to pvp, and I take those avenues a lot more lately, because of the selfishness of some of the playerbase.
Before you say "but the game is built for large battles etc", it might have been, but it can't do it anymore, it can't handle that many people, and they can't fix it, or won't fix it. We as players have to take a small amount of ownership if we love and value this game.

frozywozy wrote: »

Ralamil wrote: »

Red_Nine wrote: »

Ralamil wrote: »

I don't get what the big deal is. AotP is just the natural response of a "leader" who's so impotent that his only means of being effective is stacking absolutely as many players on screen as he can and cause it to lag to hell. It's easy to be more effective when your enemies skills aren't firing and you have the numbers.

No but really, I never want to hear how other factions stack worse than EP ever again. xD

Maybe you'd have more fun in Battlegrounds or dueling then. Or maybe Shor is more your speed. Don't let a game make you so angry. It's not healthy. Surely you realize that complaining in the forums about it won't change anything. Let go, man, life is too short. A game is supposed to be fun. If you're not able to enjoy it, what's the point?

I do have fun in pvp. I can have fun and still generally think your guild is a cancer that isn't healthy to the game that's basically skating by in terms of performance by exploiting the poor server infrastructure.

Besides, if you were concerned about anyone's fun but your own, you'd let us use our skills every once in a while. Now kindly take your faux concern elsewhere. Maybe brush up on your smallman (1 raid or less, I guess) gameplay.

It's been said before that they enjoy running with large numbers. Even if they could get better and be successful with 12, they would still run with more because they like big raids. This being said, that would be fine, IF and only if the servers could handle it which is not the case. Glad they have been doing efforts to spread their raids in different directions but it should not be a "once in a while thing". it should be a 95% of the time kind of thing.

Some people are able to handle themselves pretty good in various scenarios, others not so well. The personal skill and ability to get better also differs from person to person.
I know some people that's been doing Cyrodiil for 3-4 years and still don't know how to break free from a CC, because they don't have the reaction time for it. Others don't have the situational awareness to avoid AoE being poured on them. Some people can't find their own heal button before it's too late.
While others can easily kill 3 opponents alone.
For many people being in a large groups, even if it is causing lag, is their only way to enjoy Cyrodiil. It's a way to even the odds in their favour. Put 20 skilled players against 30 ppl that can't break free/get out of AoE/can't heal themselves (or others) and those other 20 (or even less) will wreck them apart by sheer personal skill.
But to make it clear, you don't want to make it impossible for those others to enjoy their game? Because not everyone is able to learn to the same capacity, or even as fast, as someone else.

Gonna stop you right there.

I'm the last person to point fingers at players for playing the game "wrong" or "irresponsibly," mostly because all of us are guilty of doing things at times that we know aren't the best for the game or the community. It happens from time to time for various circumstances and reasons. That being said:

All of us sucked at one point. The only way not to suck is to learn from mistakes, losses, and take off the proverbial training wheels and try to compete is situations beyond your skill level. It's humbling, it's frustrating, but it's a necessary step where there is no cutting corners. You don't need super fast twitch reactions or omniscience to enjoy Cyrodiil on your own. Rather, you need to the willingness to get kicked in the butt enough times and learn from it.

I get the appeal of playing in raid groups. It can be a lot of fun to have a legit impact on the map, whereas one person usually is just overwhelmed and zerged down. But when you state that's the "only way to enjoy Cyrodiil," that's way too exclusive and too narrow. It's A way, not the ONLY way. To have the perspective of the "only" way, that sounds like giving up on any other ways to play.

You as a player and your guild will be better off and find the game a lot more enjoyable under multiple circumstance if it is the occasional circumstance that prompts a unhealthy amount of players in a single spot at cyrodiil rather than a modus operandi.

You can learn from mutliple different approaches. Personally I observe first and foremost.
In a large scale situation I would therefor observe how the enemy, as a group, behave, and how my group, as the attacker, behave and do it vice versa (when we're defending). Point being that not everyone approaches a problem similarily.

I said "...impossible for those others to enjoy their game?". It was an intentional question.
Because, like I said, that's how I am as a person and also as a player. I observe, carefully first hand, before getting into anything. I enjoy large scale combat, I get more information with a group where I know there are healers or a tank that can take a beating and won't run away if he/she is being attacked.
This is ofc 1-2 years ago when I first got into Cyrodiil. This is no longer the case. But that's how and where I learned about Cyrodiil. I know I can handle myself with and without a group now. I probably pay more attention to enemy movement than someone that's mostly playing small scale/solo, but the small scale/solo player is probably paying more attention to his closest friends or their own resources, while I go /shout to try and save as many attackers as much as possible when being flanked.

Point being that not everyone learns the same way and people have different approaches to get by an obstacle. Grouping up is one of them, hence why my question

Also, there is a max capacity of siege weapons, that means beyond a certain point of attackers they lose effeciency by not spreading out. You can use this to your advantage and take keeps more effeciently, if you had a more organized group at your own disposal. If you were to create something similar and make tactical decissions to spread out on keeps, the enemy will be forced to spread out too or they will start losing an insane amount of points.

Things are being made too complicated here.

Most of the people here aren't saying that you are ruining people's enjoyment for making groups bigger than 4 (although undoubtedly some exist). People can group, have fun, learn, and have an impact on the map. It's fine. It's cool. It's part of the game.

Rather, the issue arises when stacking 50+ is seen as a matter of routine and as a standard operating procedure.

No, I don't want to make it impossible for other people to enjoy their game. That's why I generally don't accuse people of playing "wrong" or irresponsibly. Group up, totally fine with that. And I recognize there are instances where too many people are going to be in one spot and often it's not intentional. It happens. It's fine. all I am saying is that stacking 50+ should not become habit and seen as a tactic to win. Because at that point there is zero learning going on at all as the only lesson to be drawn when 3/4 the population is stacked at a single objective is that ZOS's servers can't handle it.

Individuals are complicated. We should never forget that it's a real person behind the screen

These people in AotP seem to have been gathered relatively fast. That shows that it's a very low standard for joining. With a low standard, and numbers quickly rising, would indicate that the majority of players aren't very experienced, unless every single one of them intentionally wanna break the server by causing lag, but that's highly improbable. With the majority being relatively inexperienced players, then what I've said before makes sense, no?

I can guarantee you that some of these players from AotP see this solution from the GM as the greatest thing done since the invention of ice cream, because now they feel like they can participate properly for once. Even if they only run around doing light attacks and die due to standing in AoE.

It's fine if you accuse the leaders of causing the lag, if said leader orders several full groups to one location with the intention to cause lag), but you need some solid proof before making such accusations. But don't blame the little guy, that's a part of the guild, that's just following the leader.

I know. The lag sucks. But the lag is there with or without organised groups due to how players organically form into zergs when they can't handle themselves, which is the case when they are inexperienced. The only solution can come from ZOS or that you make a similar guild where you take on the leader role and spread out your groups.
The lag has been there for as long as I can remember and nothing's been done by ZOS. My advice is really that you make your own guild and force the opponents to spread out

Ruckly

Thoragaal wrote: »

show previous quotes

Joy_Division wrote: »

Thoragaal wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Thoragaal wrote: »

Elong wrote: »

Red_Nine wrote: »

Ralamil wrote: »

I don't get what the big deal is. AotP is just the natural response of a "leader" who's so impotent that his only means of being effective is stacking absolutely as many players on screen as he can and cause it to lag to hell. It's easy to be more effective when your enemies skills aren't firing and you have the numbers.

No but really, I never want to hear how other factions stack worse than EP ever again. xD

Maybe you'd have more fun in Battlegrounds or dueling then. Or maybe Shor is more your speed. Don't let a game make you so angry. It's not healthy. Surely you realize that complaining in the forums about it won't change anything. Let go, man, life is too short. A game is supposed to be fun. If you're not able to enjoy it, what's the point?

Some of us aren't able to enjoy because certain players willingly stack 80 deep in the same place and cause lag. You know what your actions cause. I'm not angry about it, just disappointed. There are other options to pvp, and I take those avenues a lot more lately, because of the selfishness of some of the playerbase.
Before you say "but the game is built for large battles etc", it might have been, but it can't do it anymore, it can't handle that many people, and they can't fix it, or won't fix it. We as players have to take a small amount of ownership if we love and value this game.

frozywozy wrote: »

Ralamil wrote: »

Red_Nine wrote: »

Ralamil wrote: »

I don't get what the big deal is. AotP is just the natural response of a "leader" who's so impotent that his only means of being effective is stacking absolutely as many players on screen as he can and cause it to lag to hell. It's easy to be more effective when your enemies skills aren't firing and you have the numbers.

No but really, I never want to hear how other factions stack worse than EP ever again. xD

Maybe you'd have more fun in Battlegrounds or dueling then. Or maybe Shor is more your speed. Don't let a game make you so angry. It's not healthy. Surely you realize that complaining in the forums about it won't change anything. Let go, man, life is too short. A game is supposed to be fun. If you're not able to enjoy it, what's the point?

I do have fun in pvp. I can have fun and still generally think your guild is a cancer that isn't healthy to the game that's basically skating by in terms of performance by exploiting the poor server infrastructure.

Besides, if you were concerned about anyone's fun but your own, you'd let us use our skills every once in a while. Now kindly take your faux concern elsewhere. Maybe brush up on your smallman (1 raid or less, I guess) gameplay.

It's been said before that they enjoy running with large numbers. Even if they could get better and be successful with 12, they would still run with more because they like big raids. This being said, that would be fine, IF and only if the servers could handle it which is not the case. Glad they have been doing efforts to spread their raids in different directions but it should not be a "once in a while thing". it should be a 95% of the time kind of thing.

Some people are able to handle themselves pretty good in various scenarios, others not so well. The personal skill and ability to get better also differs from person to person.
I know some people that's been doing Cyrodiil for 3-4 years and still don't know how to break free from a CC, because they don't have the reaction time for it. Others don't have the situational awareness to avoid AoE being poured on them. Some people can't find their own heal button before it's too late.
While others can easily kill 3 opponents alone.
For many people being in a large groups, even if it is causing lag, is their only way to enjoy Cyrodiil. It's a way to even the odds in their favour. Put 20 skilled players against 30 ppl that can't break free/get out of AoE/can't heal themselves (or others) and those other 20 (or even less) will wreck them apart by sheer personal skill.
But to make it clear, you don't want to make it impossible for those others to enjoy their game? Because not everyone is able to learn to the same capacity, or even as fast, as someone else.

Gonna stop you right there.

I'm the last person to point fingers at players for playing the game "wrong" or "irresponsibly," mostly because all of us are guilty of doing things at times that we know aren't the best for the game or the community. It happens from time to time for various circumstances and reasons. That being said:

All of us sucked at one point. The only way not to suck is to learn from mistakes, losses, and take off the proverbial training wheels and try to compete is situations beyond your skill level. It's humbling, it's frustrating, but it's a necessary step where there is no cutting corners. You don't need super fast twitch reactions or omniscience to enjoy Cyrodiil on your own. Rather, you need to the willingness to get kicked in the butt enough times and learn from it.

I get the appeal of playing in raid groups. It can be a lot of fun to have a legit impact on the map, whereas one person usually is just overwhelmed and zerged down. But when you state that's the "only way to enjoy Cyrodiil," that's way too exclusive and too narrow. It's A way, not the ONLY way. To have the perspective of the "only" way, that sounds like giving up on any other ways to play.

You as a player and your guild will be better off and find the game a lot more enjoyable under multiple circumstance if it is the occasional circumstance that prompts a unhealthy amount of players in a single spot at cyrodiil rather than a modus operandi.

You can learn from mutliple different approaches. Personally I observe first and foremost.
In a large scale situation I would therefor observe how the enemy, as a group, behave, and how my group, as the attacker, behave and do it vice versa (when we're defending). Point being that not everyone approaches a problem similarily.

I said "...impossible for those others to enjoy their game?". It was an intentional question.
Because, like I said, that's how I am as a person and also as a player. I observe, carefully first hand, before getting into anything. I enjoy large scale combat, I get more information with a group where I know there are healers or a tank that can take a beating and won't run away if he/she is being attacked.
This is ofc 1-2 years ago when I first got into Cyrodiil. This is no longer the case. But that's how and where I learned about Cyrodiil. I know I can handle myself with and without a group now. I probably pay more attention to enemy movement than someone that's mostly playing small scale/solo, but the small scale/solo player is probably paying more attention to his closest friends or their own resources, while I go /shout to try and save as many attackers as much as possible when being flanked.

Point being that not everyone learns the same way and people have different approaches to get by an obstacle. Grouping up is one of them, hence why my question

Also, there is a max capacity of siege weapons, that means beyond a certain point of attackers they lose effeciency by not spreading out. You can use this to your advantage and take keeps more effeciently, if you had a more organized group at your own disposal. If you were to create something similar and make tactical decissions to spread out on keeps, the enemy will be forced to spread out too or they will start losing an insane amount of points.

Things are being made too complicated here.

Most of the people here aren't saying that you are ruining people's enjoyment for making groups bigger than 4 (although undoubtedly some exist). People can group, have fun, learn, and have an impact on the map. It's fine. It's cool. It's part of the game.

Rather, the issue arises when stacking 50+ is seen as a matter of routine and as a standard operating procedure.

No, I don't want to make it impossible for other people to enjoy their game. That's why I generally don't accuse people of playing "wrong" or irresponsibly. Group up, totally fine with that. And I recognize there are instances where too many people are going to be in one spot and often it's not intentional. It happens. It's fine. all I am saying is that stacking 50+ should not become habit and seen as a tactic to win. Because at that point there is zero learning going on at all as the only lesson to be drawn when 3/4 the population is stacked at a single objective is that ZOS's servers can't handle it.

Individuals are complicated. We should never forget that it's a real person behind the screen

These people in AotP seem to have been gathered relatively fast. That shows that it's a very low standard for joining. With a low standard, and numbers quickly rising, would indicate that the majority of players aren't very experienced, unless every single one of them intentionally wanna break the server by causing lag, but that's highly improbable. With the majority being relatively inexperienced players, then what I've said before makes sense, no?

I can guarantee you that some of these players from AotP see this solution from the GM as the greatest thing done since the invention of ice cream, because now they feel like they can participate properly for once. Even if they only run around doing light attacks and die due to standing in AoE.

It's fine if you accuse the leaders of causing the lag, if said leader orders several full groups to one location with the intention to cause lag), but you need some solid proof before making such accusations. But don't blame the little guy, that's a part of the guild, that's just following the leader.

I know. The lag sucks. But the lag is there with or without organised groups due to how players organically form into zergs when they can't handle themselves, which is the case when they are inexperienced. The only solution can come from ZOS or that you make a similar guild where you take on the leader role and spread out your groups.
The lag has been there for as long as I can remember and nothing's been done by ZOS. My advice is really that you make your own guild and force the opponents to spread out

AotP puts a bunch of people in one place and it creates lag and they know it creates lag and the placing of people is intentional. Prior to AotP there was lag but not as consistent and it didn't shut down prime-time. Now I don't even play the game anymore other than to lvl my mounts in the hope that some time in the future people with more sound reasoning will organize what goes on in cyrodill. If I have 4 hours of leisure time I'm not going to spend 2 hours in load screens or bar lock or skills taking 10 seconds to cast or siege being busy and being pushed back to the gate so there is nowhere else to go(DC corner keep is in the path of AotP lag if it was brindle I imagine when the onslaught comes people would go to brindle to TDM until they(AotP) are done and satisfied).

barshemm

Red_Nine wrote: »

Maybe you'd have more fun in Battlegrounds or dueling then. Or maybe Shor is more your speed. Don't let a game make you so angry. It's not healthy. Surely you realize that complaining in the forums about it won't change anything. Let go, man, life is too short. A game is supposed to be fun. If you're not able to enjoy it, what's the point?

Actually you are right. Prime time those are much better ways to enjoy the game. However the rest of the day in Vivec is the most fun. It's just once my skills stop working and I can't bar swap that it's not as much fun as those other things. I wonder what contributes to causing that lag?

zyk

More than the performance and gameplay issues, it is the culture of the game that bothers me the most on PC/NA/Vivec.

I feel like ZOS is slowly turning Cyrodiil into a PVE zone. I feel like most players in Cyro these days actually enjoy zerging barely or not at all defended keeps. I say this because there is an endless cycle of PVE at objectives with little or, usually, no PVP. I'll watch raids on my own faction choose to pvdoor keeps and resources instead of trying to defend them.

ZOS needs to stop making Cyrodiil attractive to ESO PVE players who fundamentally don't enjoy PVP and instead focus on making Cyrodiil attractive to PVP players from the greater PVP gaming community.

IMO, this is the mindset of AOTP players. They're akin to PVE dolmen or world boss raids. It's just brainless pew pew.