Solving AotP
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Reverb✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I am no fan of what AP is doing, because it lags the hell out of the server and sucks the fun out of the campaign, whether you on on the same side or the opposite.
But if it's just about bringing numbers to a fight, where was the DC outrage when IA was stacking three raids every afternoon last month versus single bar pops?
With EP on top, it's attracting a lot of extra red population throughout the day, which is par for the course. But this too shall pass. It always does.
There’s plenty of outrage towards IA in DC zone chat. In fact, DC has always been notoriously venomous towards our own Zerg guilds, going all the way back to EG.
There’s a lot of hand waving by you guys right now, while ignoring what people on all three factions are saying:
At no time since launch (on PCNA)has anyone ever stacked as many people in one place as consistently as EP is doing lately. The servers can’t handle it, and it’s bad for the health of the game.Edited by Reverb on December 6, 2018 3:53PMBattle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you. ~Friedrich Nietzsche5 -
courier✭✭✭
This thread is full of ridiculous ideas, for example that AP is the reason EP is winning. They only play 10 hours a week and often have less than 2 full raids.
No other group has 50 EP when AP is not running.
Ahtu will run around with anywhere from 12 to 25 people when not in an AP raid. He is a big reason for EP success this campaign. He is on all the time and organizes people.
There is now at least one EP guild running the non prime time hours. That is how EP had 6 scrolls and EMP the other day. (I logged on much early than usual and saw them getting the last 2 scrolls on the map) . This is exactly how AD won the last few campaigns, yet now AD come here and complain about it.
Often AP spends prime time trying (and not always succeeding) to just defend what the day crews got. The other night in prime time EP was reduced to two keeps.
Finally, the absurd idea that AP causes all the lag and that they are somehow immune to the lag. NO. EP also lags just as much. I have constantly disconnected when approaching keeps full of the AD zerg (which , btw often tips the scales close to 80)
All the hate directed at AD, most of the posts here are from DC and EP..... Last AD was thanking them for the donations1 -
Ralamil✭✭✭✭
AD slaughtered lots of EP when we first ran in the FD. Taking Drake this time required an additional wall breach. However, EP did take Drake in this fight. No way did EP have 100 at Drake last night. AP was asking for AP2 in zone chat which means they didn't even have 48.
And we slaughtered you when you pushed in the second breach as well. And then we slaughtered you throughout the keep. Of course you eventually took the keep with those numbers, but EP was WELL beyond just having 48 people attacking that keep. Much like they're well beyond those numbers at most keep fights these days.Karn Wild-Blood - PC NA AD Nord Warden2 -
Ralamil✭✭✭✭
I don't know if it's been brought up already, but, why don't you actively avoid the zerg and go for a different keep where the zerg isn't at? Why do you put yourself in that situation when you know the lag that comes with it?
I would love to actively avoid the zerg, but that means only fighting in DC territory, since faction stacking is the only way EP seems to know how to respond these days, particularly when aotp is around. And besides, I wouldn't want to give any of them the idea that they're in any way scary and should be avoided.
Also, it's funny that you ask why I put myself in a position to have to deal with the lag, but don't seem to ask why crow and his cancerous guild subject everyone they encounter to it, knowing full well what they do to the server. So please, stop pretending that you're trying to be helpful or useful.Edited by Ralamil on December 6, 2018 4:55PMKarn Wild-Blood - PC NA AD Nord Warden2 -
jaime1982✭✭✭✭It looks like the damage is done and maybe irreversible. Imagine if dracarys didn't have an omni or a fantasia or an iron legion or a guardians of daggerfall to fight? What would they do during their raid schedule? Mow down pick up groups over and over? That would get boring.
I stopped zone generaling about a week into a campaign maybe when I saw no one had a solution to lag bombing. (This thread was created on the first day after the campaign after the fist score tick seeing if anyone had any idea what to do). I think a week later another zone general stopped. Now I'm not sure I don't play this campaign very much anymore it doesn't seem much information gets passed around. Without a DC to oppose EP I don't think AD can do much because it is a three way campaign and EP was always the strongest faction. I'm going to take a wild guess that lag bombing which was relentless day after day at the start of the campaign might have been scaled down and might be phased out at some point like it never existed. That sounds good in theory if it didn't wreck DC prime-time. The person who thought lag bombing was the greatest thing ever is clearly dumb. The simple reason why is EP now has what to fight? and the carpet baggers are going to pile into EP prime-time. And if EP turtles scrolls during prime-time which was their preferred method 4 campaigns ago it will get boring quick. There is no scroll reset rule for prime-time.
And people who think this is a whiny thread are completely clueless. The thread was created on the first day of the campaign after the first score tick anticipating the damage that could be done. At this point the only way I see a return to anything relevant is resetting the scrolls to 1 point value which removes a dynamic which worked well for a while but it only takes one bad actor to completely wreck a good game. I've seen it done many times. They think they are smarter than everyone and blam game sucks.
Lmao
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_Crow✭✭✭Wait...Is all this hate because DC doesn't have any good guilds since VE left a long time ago and now they don't know how to win anymore? GoD has shown some promise!
..... Can't really think of anyone else though on DC that is decent...GM: Army of the Pact
Loves War almost as much as Tbagging
-Crow, Mag DK
-Murder of Crows, Stam Warden2 -
NBrookus✭✭✭✭✭
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There’s plenty of outrage towards IA in DC zone chat. In fact, DC has always been notoriously venomous towards our own Zerg guilds, going all the way back to EG.
There’s a lot of hand waving by you guys right now, while ignoring what people on all three factions are saying:
At no time since launch (on PCNA)has anyone ever stacked as many people in one place as consistently as EP is doing lately. The servers can’t handle it, and it’s bad for the health of the game.
"You guys" probably shouldn't be directed to someone that is playing DC while this zerg blob is going on.
I have noted that IA seems to have stopped stacking so large, which is appreciated.
@Thoragaal , the lag isn't just in the vicinity of the zerg. It blankets the whole server. You can't just fight somewhere else and everything is good.3 -
Ruckly✭✭✭✭Wait...Is all this hate because DC doesn't have any good guilds since VE left a long time ago and now they don't know how to win anymore? GoD has shown some promise!
..... Can't really think of anyone else though on DC that is decent...
You do know EP was supposed to win the last campaign right? They were getting a huge push through and they still lost. The current score is a reflection of how bad it was. Lag bombing was where EP finally broke through. Everything after that is where the score should have been. I said this last campaign. And yes a one guild faction did beat EP 2 campaigns ago. And no that guild did not field 3 raids+ during prime-time. IA offset the AD night cap and the EP morning cap. During prime-time it was relatively even and EP consistently lost during prime-time day after day that campaign. And no it wasn't done stacking 3 raids+. DC did it without trashing the server and others players game play.
No. No the OP is not hate towards anything. If you have read it you would see quite clearly no hatred in it. It was posted on the first day of the campaign after one score tick. The current campaign didn't have a story yet. It simply had a problem.1 -
Recremen✭✭✭✭✭
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And we slaughtered you when you pushed in the second breach as well. And then we slaughtered you throughout the keep. Of course you eventually took the keep with those numbers, but EP was WELL beyond just having 48 people attacking that keep. Much like they're well beyond those numbers at most keep fights these days.
We probably could have saved that keep completely if so many of our team didn't disconnect from the enormous number of ebonheart players crowding around. What an obnoxious methodology.Men'Do PC NA AD Khajiit
Grand High Illustrious Mid-Tier PvP/PvE Bussmunster1 -
Recremen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Wait...Is all this hate because DC doesn't have any good guilds since VE left a long time ago and now they don't know how to win anymore? GoD has shown some promise!
..... Can't really think of anyone else though on DC that is decent...
I'm pretty sure LoM could take your best folks in an even fight nine times out of ten, especially since your team is getting rusty by doing nothing but zergstacking.Men'Do PC NA AD Khajiit
Grand High Illustrious Mid-Tier PvP/PvE Bussmunster4 -
Irylia✭✭✭✭✭
✭:fascinating:
Deal with lag via overland pvp zone
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/448487/pvp-in-overland-zones#latestEdited by Irylia on December 6, 2018 7:38PM0 -
Reverb✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
"You guys" probably shouldn't be directed to someone that is playing DC while this zerg blob is going on.
I have noted that IA seems to have stopped stacking so large, which is appreciated.
@Thoragaal , the lag isn't just in the vicinity of the zerg. It blankets the whole server. You can't just fight somewhere else and everything is good.
Yah sorry, only the first line of my post (referencing IA) was a response to you. I meant to pull in another quote for the rest of my comment but had a pasting fail. Sorry for the misunderstanding.Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you. ~Friedrich Nietzsche0 -
_Crow✭✭✭Well, the thread is getting boring and it does not seem like anything is really being resolved
, So I am off guys! Good luck and I will see you on the battlefield, if I can find you among my 120 small man raids haha! 
Edited by _Crow on December 6, 2018 11:41PMGM: Army of the Pact
Loves War almost as much as Tbagging
-Crow, Mag DK
-Murder of Crows, Stam Warden4 -
Theignson✭✭✭✭✭"And we slaughtered you when you pushed in the second breach as well. And then we slaughtered you throughout the keep. Of course you eventually took the keep with those numbers, but EP was WELL beyond just having 48 people attacking that keep. Much like they're well beyond those numbers at most keep fights these days.[/quote]
Not sure why you are sounding so proud about losing a keep. After the second breach it was pretty routine, we wiped you out of the courtyard, breached the inner and wiped you out there. In contrast, competent AD groups have defended Alessia against larger EP forces many times. Go ahead and dig up a video of the Drake fight and see how many EP died rushing into the first breach-- I'll bet it was 30 tops. Maybe I'm wrong; I've never been in an AP raid so I can't say for sure.
Also, not sure what guild you are with, but surely you're aware of the 60+ AD blobs that EP routinely repels from Sej even when outnumbered 2:1. Not to mention the 80+ AD blobs that attack BRK. It isn't only an EP thing. And the AD blobs cause just as much lag.
3 GOs, a Warlord, and bunches of prefects etc-- all classes...I've wasted a lot of time in PVP0 -
Ranger209✭✭✭✭✭Well, the thread is getting boring and it does not seem like anything is really being resolved , So I am off guys! Good luck and I will see you on the battlefield, if I can find you among my 120 small man raids haha!
So is playing in Cyrodiil, haven't made it past 8 o'clock all week. Just bored, always outnumbered everywhere. DC not in a good place numbers wise.0 -
Recremen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Not sure why you are sounding so proud about losing a keep. After the second breach it was pretty routine, we wiped you out of the courtyard, breached the inner and wiped you out there. In contrast, competent AD groups have defended Alessia against larger EP forces many times. Go ahead and dig up a video of the Drake fight and see how many EP died rushing into the first breach-- I'll bet it was 30 tops. Maybe I'm wrong; I've never been in an AP raid so I can't say for sure.
Also, not sure what guild you are with, but surely you're aware of the 60+ AD blobs that EP routinely repels from Sej even when outnumbered 2:1. Not to mention the 80+ AD blobs that attack BRK. It isn't only an EP thing. And the AD blobs cause just as much lag.
But it was Drake. Which means you were the ones who lost it in the first place. 🤔 We were doing great, despite being vastly outnumbered, until our people started disconnecting from the lag your people were causing. We can carve up any subraid you throw at us like a gods-damned Christmas ham, as had played out countless times, but you want to act like we aren't competent? Get a grip, honey. It ought to be embarrassing enough that you think 30 people getting wiped on a breach is no big deal.
Incidentally, it seems like you don't understand cause and effect. There are plenty of AD guilds who are more than happy to split off and draw fights into non-zergy encounters, but for a few weeks now we've found that to be pointless during primetime most of the time, as EP is more than willing to send multiple raids against such people. The very fight we are talking about was one such guild, who then had to defend against multiple raids trying to take it back. Don't act shocked that you find an equal-sized zerg showing up to BRK after something like that.Edited by Recremen on December 7, 2018 2:01AMMen'Do PC NA AD Khajiit
Grand High Illustrious Mid-Tier PvP/PvE Bussmunster0 -
Ruckly✭✭✭✭hukWell, the thread is getting boring and it does not seem like anything is really being resolved , So I am off guys! Good luck and I will see you on the battlefield, if I can find you among my 120 small man raids haha!
Of course you are bored. You are wrong and have nothing left to say.6 -
Thoragaal✭✭✭✭✭
"You guys" probably shouldn't be directed to someone that is playing DC while this zerg blob is going on.
I have noted that IA seems to have stopped stacking so large, which is appreciated.
@Thoragaal , the lag isn't just in the vicinity of the zerg. It blankets the whole server. You can't just fight somewhere else and everything is good.
I know the delay is still there, but I also know it prevents the disconnects by avoiding the zerg.
The general delay is there as soon as the server is close to pop lock (if that's what you mean by lag), and doesn't really have anything specifically to do with the huge amounts of people stacking at one place (aotp in this case).
But the disconnects can be avoided from not being close to the zerg.The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
"I've always wanted to kick a duck up the arse" -Karl Pilkington, on the question what he'd do if it was the last day on earth.0 -
Elong✭✭✭✭✭
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I know the delay is still there, but I also know it prevents the disconnects by avoiding the zerg.
The general delay is there as soon as the server is close to pop lock (if that's what you mean by lag), and doesn't really have anything specifically to do with the huge amounts of people stacking at one place (aotp in this case).
But the disconnects can be avoided from not being close to the zerg.
YES IT DOES FFS!6 -
Thoragaal✭✭✭✭✭
I would love to actively avoid the zerg, but that means only fighting in DC territory, since faction stacking is the only way EP seems to know how to respond these days, particularly when aotp is around. And besides, I wouldn't want to give any of them the idea that they're in any way scary and should be avoided.
Also, it's funny that you ask why I put myself in a position to have to deal with the lag, but don't seem to ask why crow and his cancerous guild subject everyone they encounter to it, knowing full well what they do to the server. So please, stop pretending that you're trying to be helpful or useful.
Yeah, it means only fighting DC if you only go for things that's already UA. But you can create a situation yourself:
If one faction only moves around like one huge blob, then all the their other keeps are empty of players (unless your making a hyperbolic argument when saying "since faction stacking is the only way EP seems to know how to respond").
As soon as you hit one of their keeps behind enemy lines, you also cut off their ever flow of resources (players moving from the starting area). This means the keep wont have any defenders at first, but if you put Arrius UA you will attract enemy players trying to port to said zerg.
It's funny, because I already know Crow's reason; to win the campaign.
I don't have the option to ask every single individual in his guild (even if I'd like to know), so I was asking @Ruckley.
So I'm not pretending anything. But your way of reasoning shows you're not here to solve anything. You're just here to complain but it doesn't seem like your complaints have changed anyone's mind on the subject so far. So by all means, continue and good luck.The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
"I've always wanted to kick a duck up the arse" -Karl Pilkington, on the question what he'd do if it was the last day on earth.1 -
Ruckly✭✭✭✭
Yeah, it means only fighting DC if you only go for things that's already UA. But you can create a situation yourself:
If one faction only moves around like one huge blob, then all the their other keeps are empty of players (unless your making a hyperbolic argument when saying "since faction stacking is the only way EP seems to know how to respond").
As soon as you hit one of their keeps behind enemy lines, you also cut off their ever flow of resources (players moving from the starting area). This means the keep wont have any defenders at first, but if you put Arrius UA you will attract enemy players trying to port to said zerg.
It's funny, because I already know Crow's reason; to win the campaign.
I don't have the option to ask every single individual in his guild (even if I'd like to know), so I was asking @Ruckley.
So I'm not pretending anything. But your way of reasoning shows you're not here to solve anything. You're just here to complain but it doesn't seem like your complaints have changed anyone's mind on the subject so far. So by all means, continue and good luck.
I stated a problem and sought a solution. I stated problems the problem created. I might not have been 100% scientific in my method doing everything in the 3rd person but it is a thread in a video game forum. Saying "stacking 80 people in one place causes lag and crashes" is stating a problem. A problem stated in a forum can be called a complaint true. But then if everything considered a problem is a complaint and thus taboo in forums then what is the point of the forum in the first place!? The point is to state problems(make complaints) and seek solutions. Calling a problem a complaint doesn't make it not a problem.
Now you say you know Crow's reason, to win the campaign. He doesn't have a problem(specific to this thread not in general) thus he doesn't have a complaint. You say this guy has a complaint that guy doesn't and so on...that is dithering.
If you want me to put this scientifically: Intentionally stacking x number of people in place creates lag favoring the party that is stacking x number of people. Because of this it would be considered an exploit in the TOS if they do it intentionally which they do. Therefore they are cheating. x however varies along a continuum so you can't say exactly at what point it is an exploit. If you say this person is banned for lag bombing then that person might push a little more or a little less. It is impossible to draw a line. It's not like once upon a time using silver leash to go over a wall was an exploit. In that case the data was discreet. You see the person using silver leash to go over the wall it happened. However you don't know whether they know it's an exploit. So you warm them letting them know it's an exploit. It is not so simple with lag bombing. It is obviously cheating. But because the lag on a server varies you can't really say at what point it is cheating because it is continuous. You can say that this group doing it intentionally is obviously cheating. Hence the original problem. Lag bombing creating indefensible scenarios which may or may not have resulted in the distorted server populations we now see.Edited by Ruckly on December 7, 2018 8:02AM1 -
Ruckly✭✭✭✭
I know the delay is still there, but I also know it prevents the disconnects by avoiding the zerg.
The general delay is there as soon as the server is close to pop lock (if that's what you mean by lag), and doesn't really have anything specifically to do with the huge amounts of people stacking at one place (aotp in this case).
But the disconnects can be avoided from not being close to the zerg.
That is incorrect. Clients have to feed data to the server. This data includes heal stacks and buffs. 80 people in proximity have 80 clients relaying data from that proximity. You can have ultranet and you will still get lag from that 80 man blob because you have to wait for all their clients to send data to the server and then to your client and it has to form a coherent whole. It's not like battlefield where you can have 64 people on a map and zero lag. You can actually play battlefield while playing in cyrodill and you won't be affected by what goes on in cyrodill unless you are getting packeted. Your battlefield ping should remain constant.1 -
Thoragaal✭✭✭✭✭
I stated a problem and sought a solution. I stated problems the problem created. I might not have been 100% scientific in my method doing everything in the 3rd person but it is a thread in a video game forum. Saying "stacking 80 people in one place causes lag and crashes" is stating a problem. A problem stated in a forum can be called a complaint true. But then if everything considered a problem is a complaint and thus taboo in forums then what is the point of the forum in the first place!? The point is to state problems(make complaints) and seek solutions. Calling a problem a complaint doesn't make it not a problem.
Now you say you know Crow's reason, to win the campaign. He doesn't have a problem(specific to this thread not in general) thus he doesn't have a complaint. You say this guy has a complaint that guy doesn't and so on...that is dithering.
If you want me to put this scientifically: Intentionally stacking x number of people in place creates lag favoring the party that is stacking x number of people. Because of this it would be considered an exploit in the TOS if they do it intentionally which they do. Therefore they are cheating. x however varies along a continuum so you can't say exactly at what point it is an exploit. If you say this person is banned for lag bombing then that person might push a little more or a little less. It is impossible to draw a line. It's not like once upon a time using silver leash to go over a wall was an exploit. In that case the data was discreet. You see the person using silver leash to go over the wall it happened. However you don't know whether they know it's an exploit. So you warm them letting them know it's an exploit. It is not so simple with lag bombing. It is obviously cheating. But because the lag on a server varies you can't really say at what point it is cheating because it is continuous. You can say that this group doing it intentionally is obviously cheating. Hence the original problem. Lag bombing creating indefensible scenarios which may or may not have resulted in the distorted server populations we now see.
I'm not sure what you're replying to
I was asking for your reason to why you don't move away from the zerg when you know the lag that comes with it.
My point to Ramalil was that he's not here to find a solution, like you said "I stated a problem and sought a solution". Telling someone else to simply quit what they're doing isn't the only solution. And it's also extremely ineffective when the other person has no reason to quit.The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
"I've always wanted to kick a duck up the arse" -Karl Pilkington, on the question what he'd do if it was the last day on earth.0 -
Thoragaal✭✭✭✭✭
That is incorrect. Clients have to feed data to the server. This data includes heal stacks and buffs. 80 people in proximity have 80 clients relaying data from that proximity. You can have ultranet and you will still get lag from that 80 man blob because you have to wait for all their clients to send data to the server and then to your client and it has to form a coherent whole. It's not like battlefield where you can have 64 people on a map and zero lag. You can actually play battlefield while playing in cyrodill and you won't be affected by what goes on in cyrodill unless you are getting packeted. Your battlefield ping should remain constant.
The data is not being sent/recieved to/by everyone no matter where you are. Otherwise there would be no difference in terms of latency/delay/disconnects depending on where you are in relation to the zerg. Which it is.
If you have 100-200 people stacked at Ash, maxed sieges, you name it, you can run "perfectly fine" from Nikel to Ash.. when you arrive at Ash, however, all that data becomes relevant to the client and it causes an overload and you disconnect because it's simply too much at once.
The data sent/recieved from client/server changes depending on how close you are to the target depending on how relevant the data is. This is also one, of many reasons ofc, to why certain addons should be turned off at certain times to make a big difference in over all performance, but has a very little impact otherwise.
So you can avoid getting disconnected because of these reasons by not being close to the zerg; moving to a different location. But it's also not the only reason to why one might get disconnected. Changing ethernet cable, for example, worked for me and many others ^^
Anyone got a video showing the player around the zerg (where sieges wont go off etc) and then with the player moving away from the zerg to, let's say, DC side or some empty keep using siege weapons?Edited by Thoragaal on December 7, 2018 10:12AMThe road to hell is paved with good intentions.
"I've always wanted to kick a duck up the arse" -Karl Pilkington, on the question what he'd do if it was the last day on earth.0 -
TBois✭✭✭✭✭
✭One issue about going elsewhere away from the zerg is that the larger group will complete the objective quicker and ultimately catch up to respond to the smaller group. Similar to how premades in land grab battlegrounds dominate, not by splitting up, but by stacking together to flip flags quicker.PC/NA
T-Bois (Stam Sorc since 1.4) - AD
An Unsettling Snowball (Templar) - AD
Bosquecito (Stam Sorc) - DC
Peti-T-Bois (Stamden) - AD1 -
Thoragaal✭✭✭✭✭One issue about going elsewhere away from the zerg is that the larger group will complete the objective quicker and ultimately catch up to respond to the smaller group. Similar to how premades in land grab battlegrounds dominate, not by splitting up, but by stacking together to flip flags quicker.
There's a max amount of players that can effectively turn the flag at once, anything beyond that is a waste. IIRC it's 6 players / flag, just like a ram.
The fastest siege possible is done with 1 ram (6 players), 3-4 sieges around the ram (by the ppl inside the ram), the remaining ppl outside of the ram puts up 3 ballistas each untill you reach the limit. If you're 12 people (for fastest way possible of turning flags), got 6 people in the ram, 6 people outside of the ram and you'll reach the max siege limit without issues if people control more than just one siege/player.
Anything above 12 players / keep is a waste in terms of how fast you can take the keep (assuming it's empty).Edited by Thoragaal on December 7, 2018 11:17AMThe road to hell is paved with good intentions.
"I've always wanted to kick a duck up the arse" -Karl Pilkington, on the question what he'd do if it was the last day on earth.0 -
TBois✭✭✭✭✭
✭That assumes everyone on seige and absolutely no defense. Oils especially can be problematic on a door even with one defender.PC/NA
T-Bois (Stam Sorc since 1.4) - AD
An Unsettling Snowball (Templar) - AD
Bosquecito (Stam Sorc) - DC
Peti-T-Bois (Stamden) - AD1 -
TBois✭✭✭✭✭
✭Also your smaller group would more than likely have to travel further into enemy territory to get to the undefended or little defended keep.
Edit: The proposed solution of fighting elsewhere is a very temporary solution, and is hardly the most effective way to address the issue right now. I've taken my small man group to flip resources at farragut and kings this week. I know that this can be somewhat effective, but after some time they have only arrius and brk/chalman. There is no avioding that zerg then unless you go to blue side, but that wasn't a good plan because ep have blue scroll.Edited by TBois on December 7, 2018 12:38PMPC/NA
T-Bois (Stam Sorc since 1.4) - AD
An Unsettling Snowball (Templar) - AD
Bosquecito (Stam Sorc) - DC
Peti-T-Bois (Stamden) - AD1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqmDRRZjaeU[/video.]This discussion has been closed.