PvP In Overland Zones

Irylia

What if instead of cyrodiil we fought in a q’d instance of the overland zones.

To enter cyro you queue and you would do the same to enter a pvp overland zone.

Alliance zones:—————
Ad: reapers March, grahtwood, greenshade, malabol tor, auridon, kenarthis roost. (Home gate - Kenarthi (Where you initially enter upon q'ing pvp))

Ep: stonefalls, eastmarch, rift, Deshaan, shadowfen, bleakrock (Home gate - Bleakrock)

Dc: stormhaven, Alikr, glenumbra, rivenspire, bangkorai, Betnikh (Home gate - betnikh)

Objectives:—————
Towns: have 3 flags each. Once you capture all of the flags the town turns your color. Once you own 3 towns in a zone you can attack and attempt to control a major city.

Major city: 1 per zone and can only be captured while owning 3 surrounding towns. These cities have defensible walls and more fortification, alleys, streets and are larger in scale. Must capture 2 flags to own the city.

Capturing a zone:——————
Each overland zone has 3 towns with flags that need to be captured before you can lay siege to the main city of each zone. I.e. Rawl kha, Mornhould, Wayrest.
Once you control the major city the overland zone turns your alliances color and gives more scoring.

Note: Communication between guilds and pugs would be key. Solo/small-mid and pug groups could play a role in defending a town while a larger guild moves on to the city.

Scoring:—————
Town - 1 point
Major city - 3 points
Enemy Zone - 5 points
Scrolls - 3 points + stat buff
Betnikh/Kenarthi/bleakrock house a factions scroll and can be attacked when 3 overland zones are no longer in the defenders control.

Traveling:——————

1. You can use zone stones (keep recall) to port to any of your alliance owned areas town/major city provided it isn’t under attack.
2. Mount travel to a zones border where you can then enter the next zone via a load screen stormhaven to bangkorai etc.
islands are connected to the closest zone via a “boat port”
Auridon to greenshade.
3. DC can port to Eastmarch + The Rift and wage war on EP and Auridon + Greenshade to wage war on AD
4. AD port to Alikr + Glenumbra to fight DC and Shadowfen + Deshaan to face EP.
5. EP ports to Reapers March + Grahtwood to reach AD and Bangkorai + stormhaven to assault DC

Note: Players (example ad) can still mount travel from shadowfen > deshaan > stonefalls > The rift to fight DC and EP or shake up their assault with a diversion far behind enemy lines while their faction hits shadowfen (example)

What to remove:—————
1. To assist in performance the mobs, dungeon entrances and wandering npc's would be removed.
2. Siege can only be placed in and around the immediate vicinity of a major city.


Why pvp in overland zones?

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1. The terrain is consistently fresh and allows for unique fights all across tamriel from the frigid cold eastmarch hills to alikr's scorching desert.
2. By using the zones we split up the pvp playerbase into potentially 18 different zones with a load time between zones causing less server stress
3. Players are encouraged to spread out because to capture a major city they need to control 3 towns which will be strewn across a zone sometimes requiring you to run around a mountain ridge which means some players will have to stay behind to defend the town while the main force marches onto the city for a zone capture. This in turn will reduce the ball mentality and reduce lag.

Extra:

---

1. Roads give a 15% speed boost to those mounted
2. Guilds can claim a major city/town
3. Guilds can claim an overland zone if they accomplish the zone "achievement" Killing x (10,000) enemy players in the zone.

Of course this isn't completely fleshed out and is up for remodeling/ideas but pvp in the overland locations would not only drastically reduce lag and spread players out but enrich our gameplay and allow us to enjoy the beautiful terrain in each zone without a vast area going to waste like in cyrodiil.

I can update this with other ideas/fixes if they get enough interest in the comments.

Syhae

This kind of idea makes pvpers weak at the knees

Prince_of_all_Pugs

lol id totally come back to eso if they had stuff like that.

tannips

I’d be for a PvE Cyrodiil if it meant PvP could have something like this

WaltherCarraway

would recommend something like this. just an expansion.

CyrusArya

Awesome idea, but my concern is that the pops aren’t there to spread people out like that. But were it to be implemented, what I would like is for one region to be the featured zone for a patch or expansion- sort of how other games do seasons.

But at the end of the day, the three major factors that prevent content like this imo are: low pops, low incentive to invest in PvP, and an initiative to focus on Cyrodiil with what little can be invested into PvP.

Juhasow

Sorry but for me it sounds like a horrible idea. It may sound good on paper but it would be just horrible. Most of the maps would be dead and even the ones alive wouldnt bring much fun. Regular zones are simply not fitting 3 alliance conflict. Also I think amount of job it would require to implement that idea is not worthy of what we would get at the end. Lets face it people would hype it for few weeks and then everyone would come back into Cyrodill same as it was with IC. I would rather see mutlitple changes and improvements to Cyrodill happening then this.

WaltherCarraway

your idea + cyrus + op's idea should be a great pvp dlc . but who knows

Minyassa

See, this is a great idea if they made an all PvP overland server and then an all PvE server including PvE Cyrodiil and IC. Everyone could be happy.

Ghostbane

I love this. Its like Battlefield conquest.

To start small, there could be a different set of maps each week, instead of the whole shebang. Although the entirety of Irylia's post, I'd willingly pay for. Monthly.

mague

Irylia wrote: »

Each overland zone has 3 towns with flags that need to be captured before you can lay siege to the main city of each zone. I.e. Rawl kha, Mornhould, Wayrest.
Once you control the major city the overland zone turns your alliances color and gives more scoring.

LOL, what do you mean with "to siege Rawl kha" ? You can just walk into the town. It has no walls or mountains or slaughterfish puddles.

I d rather ask whats wrong with Cyrodiil. For example why are the NPC of the resources so weak ? They need a HUGE buff. That would bring people into forming real armys for a keep and we would concentrate more on turning outposts. And.. and.. and..

Nermy

Absolutely brilliant idea! I think you may need financial backing for that one because you are basically talking about a new game

TBois

mague wrote: »

Irylia wrote: »

Each overland zone has 3 towns with flags that need to be captured before you can lay siege to the main city of each zone. I.e. Rawl kha, Mornhould, Wayrest.
Once you control the major city the overland zone turns your alliances color and gives more scoring.

LOL, what do you mean with "to siege Rawl kha" ? You can just walk into the town. It has no walls or mountains or slaughterfish puddles.

I d rather ask whats wrong with Cyrodiil. For example why are the NPC of the resources so weak ? They need a HUGE buff. That would bring people into forming real armys for a keep and we would concentrate more on turning outposts. And.. and.. and..

Bringing real armies to keeps causes lag with how cyridiil is now. That would not be healthy for this game unless zos fixed the performance issues.

Sacredx

• How is this project going to be funded and maintained?
• What is the proposed programme and milestones to get this implemented?

Like it or not, this proposal is a commercial venture that will require proof of concept. Nothing is free. Treat it like a proposal and estimate the effort required for implementation and compare that against the funding model if you want this to have any chance to succeed.

95% of good ideas never get off the ground because people either ignore or avoid the basic principles of what is required to make it happen.

gabriebe

Back when I played GTA San Andreas, my favorite part of the game was capturing and defending hoods. It would be nice to have an alternate Tamriel available where every zone is a PvP zone, with increased risk rewards.

The implementation would be a little difficult though, as the map is so large that it would be mostly dead.

One way to possibily solve this is, say, a 30 days campaign is divided into 30 zones, where each zone is only opened once during the campaign. Or the 15 base game zones, opened each for 2 days. Day 1 and 2, for example, is the battle for Glenumbra with the score being accumulated hourly similar to how Cyro works.

Emma_Overload

This is a better idea than most of the rest of the ones I've heard.

I wish a dev would comment on whether something like this would be possible...

Irylia

mague wrote: »

Irylia wrote: »

Each overland zone has 3 towns with flags that need to be captured before you can lay siege to the main city of each zone. I.e. Rawl kha, Mornhould, Wayrest.
Once you control the major city the overland zone turns your alliances color and gives more scoring.

LOL, what do you mean with "to siege Rawl kha" ? You can just walk into the town. It has no walls or mountains or slaughterfish puddles.

I d rather ask whats wrong with Cyrodiil. For example why are the NPC of the resources so weak ? They need a HUGE buff. That would bring people into forming real armys for a keep and we would concentrate more on turning outposts. And.. and.. and..

The cities would be altered in a pvp instance to have fortifications

And you could rotate all 3 alliance areas and do aldmeri 6 zones one month then ep etc. make it a conquest

And cyro wouldn’t be a pvp option if this was enabled so the pvp would be there

imredneckson

gabriebe wrote: »

Back when I played GTA San Andreas, my favorite part of the game was capturing and defending hoods. It would be nice to have an alternate Tamriel available where every zone is a PvP zone, with increased risk rewards.

The implementation would be a little difficult though, as the map is so large that it would be mostly dead.

One way to possibily solve this is, say, a 30 days campaign is divided into 30 zones, where each zone is only opened once during the campaign. Or the 15 base game zones, opened each for 2 days. Day 1 and 2, for example, is the battle for Glenumbra with the score being accumulated hourly similar to how Cyro works.

They could try making it like WoW. Have a server only for PvE and have a mixed server for those who want to PvP and PvE. ZOS could even make the NPCs harder to kill to add an extra level onto the PvP server.

Irylia

imredneckson wrote: »

gabriebe wrote: »

Back when I played GTA San Andreas, my favorite part of the game was capturing and defending hoods. It would be nice to have an alternate Tamriel available where every zone is a PvP zone, with increased risk rewards.

The implementation would be a little difficult though, as the map is so large that it would be mostly dead.

One way to possibily solve this is, say, a 30 days campaign is divided into 30 zones, where each zone is only opened once during the campaign. Or the 15 base game zones, opened each for 2 days. Day 1 and 2, for example, is the battle for Glenumbra with the score being accumulated hourly similar to how Cyro works.

They could try making it like WoW. Have a server only for PvE and have a mixed server for those who want to PvP and PvE. ZOS could even make the NPCs harder to kill to add an extra level onto the PvP server.

Something.
Would like to see more cheydinhal type towns all around cyro to add to the diversity in environment. Right now it’s just a bare road between keeps on emp ring.
Even if they went through cyro with a fine comb to figure out where the stress is coming from and causing lag.
And since they didn’t even know about the friend/guild roster causing lag i wouldn’t need be surprised if there were many other random oddities increasing lag

imredneckson

Irylia wrote: »

imredneckson wrote: »

gabriebe wrote: »

Back when I played GTA San Andreas, my favorite part of the game was capturing and defending hoods. It would be nice to have an alternate Tamriel available where every zone is a PvP zone, with increased risk rewards.

The implementation would be a little difficult though, as the map is so large that it would be mostly dead.

One way to possibily solve this is, say, a 30 days campaign is divided into 30 zones, where each zone is only opened once during the campaign. Or the 15 base game zones, opened each for 2 days. Day 1 and 2, for example, is the battle for Glenumbra with the score being accumulated hourly similar to how Cyro works.

They could try making it like WoW. Have a server only for PvE and have a mixed server for those who want to PvP and PvE. ZOS could even make the NPCs harder to kill to add an extra level onto the PvP server.

Something.
Would like to see more cheydinhal type towns all around cyro to add to the diversity in environment. Right now it’s just a bare road between keeps on emp ring.
Even if they went through cyro with a fine comb to figure out where the stress is coming from and causing lag.
And since they didn’t even know about the friend/guild roster causing lag i wouldn’t need be surprised if there were many other random oddities increasing lag

Agreed

MattT1988

This idea comes up a lot. I don’t think it’ll ever happen @Irylia

For the record I’d support any idea that enhances PVP on the strict condition that it doesn’t have any kind of negative effect on any of the PVE side of the game, including the removal of PVE content or if it affects any future PVE content.

I just think that it might be too ambitious considering your basically asking for almost completely new game.

Irylia

MattT1988 wrote: »

This idea comes up a lot. I don’t think it’ll ever happen @Irylia

For the record I’d support any idea that enhances PVP on the strict condition that it doesn’t have any kind of negative effect on any of the PVE side of the game, including the removal of PVE content or if it affects any future PVE content.

I just think that it might be too ambitious considering your basically asking for almost completely new game.

Probably but with the constant ideas and consistent suggestions to pvp additions hopefully the devs notice and spice it up for us.

DaveMoeDee

Fun to think of, but a horrible idea business-wise.

Irylia

If pvp was competitive and thriving they would have more potential players.

Popular games that excel all revolve around a pvp experience with some format for rank.
Sc2, league, Dota, wow, csgo

While it wouldn’t be your goal to become an esport by providing an outlet for competitiveness and a working/enjoyable method for pvp you’d draw from the other mmo playerbases. Eso already has the benefit of skyrim’s Popularity as a gateway and once in you realize how great the graphics are and enjoyable the combat system can be. Something not many other mmos can provide

Katahdin

Irylia wrote: »

If pvp was competitive and thriving they would have more potential players.

PvP would be thriving if the lag and performance issues would be fixed.

If they make all overland maps pvp maps, the mass exodous of pve players will lead to the game shutting down because while there are a bunch of pvp players, there are not enough to keep the game running.

If the Cyrodiil leaderboard lists (PCNA) are accurate, there are about 3000-5000 PVP players per alliance depending on the week

Of course this assumes no faction and campaign switching and it assumes people are not running multiple characters each campaign. We already know that no where near that number is playing at any one time.

So if all the assumptions above are true (PS they are not, see below) 10000-15000 players is not enough to populate a pvp map the size of all of tamriel or keep the game running.

Many people run multiple characters, sometimes in multiple factions to get the monthly transmutation geodes. I personally run at least 6 every month.
Some people play in different groups in different factions.

So the actual number of PvPers is below 10000/12000

Irylia

Katahdin wrote: »

Irylia wrote: »

If pvp was competitive and thriving they would have more potential players.

PvP would be thriving if the lag and performance issues would be fixed.

If they make all overland maps pvp maps, the mass exodous of pve players will lead to the game shutting down because while there are a bunch of pvp players, there are not enough to keep the game running.

If the Cyrodiil leaderboard lists (PCNA) are accurate, there are about 3000-5000 PVP players per alliance depending on the week

Of course this assumes no faction and campaign switching and it assumes people are not running multiple characters each campaign. We already know that no where near that number is playing at any one time.

So if all the assumptions above are true (PS they are not, see below) 10000-15000 players is not enough to populate a pvp map the size of all of tamriel or keep the game running.

Many people run multiple characters, sometimes in multiple factions to get the monthly transmutation geodes. I personally run at least 6 every month.
Some people play in different groups in different factions.

So the actual number of PvPers is below 10000/12000

You didn’t read.
I said a sep instance of the pve zones.
Pvp wouldn’t conflict with pve players in any way. You q into a pvp instance of the overland zones much like you q for cyro

Katahdin

Irylia wrote: »

Katahdin wrote: »

Irylia wrote: »

If pvp was competitive and thriving they would have more potential players.

PvP would be thriving if the lag and performance issues would be fixed.

If they make all overland maps pvp maps, the mass exodous of pve players will lead to the game shutting down because while there are a bunch of pvp players, there are not enough to keep the game running.

If the Cyrodiil leaderboard lists (PCNA) are accurate, there are about 3000-5000 PVP players per alliance depending on the week

Of course this assumes no faction and campaign switching and it assumes people are not running multiple characters each campaign. We already know that no where near that number is playing at any one time.

So if all the assumptions above are true (PS they are not, see below) 10000-15000 players is not enough to populate a pvp map the size of all of tamriel or keep the game running.

Many people run multiple characters, sometimes in multiple factions to get the monthly transmutation geodes. I personally run at least 6 every month.
Some people play in different groups in different factions.

So the actual number of PvPers is below 10000/12000

You didn’t read.
I said a sep instance of the pve zones.
Pvp wouldn’t conflict with pve players in any way. You q into a pvp instance of the overland zones much like you q for cyro

I forgot to comment on that part, sorry.
Seperate servers have been asked for before many times.
They are not going to run up a whole second set of servers and split the playerbase.

.

MattT1988

Irylia wrote: »

MattT1988 wrote: »

This idea comes up a lot. I don’t think it’ll ever happen @Irylia

For the record I’d support any idea that enhances PVP on the strict condition that it doesn’t have any kind of negative effect on any of the PVE side of the game, including the removal of PVE content or if it affects any future PVE content.

I just think that it might be too ambitious considering your basically asking for almost completely new game.

Probably but with the constant ideas and consistent suggestions to pvp additions hopefully the devs notice and spice it up for us.

Any new additions need to be on the back burner unfortunately until they fix what they already have.

Irylia wrote: »

If pvp was competitive and thriving they would have more potential players.

Popular games that excel all revolve around a pvp experience with some format for rank.
Sc2, league, Dota, wow, csgo

While it wouldn’t be your goal to become an esport by providing an outlet for competitiveness and a working/enjoyable method for pvp you’d draw from the other mmo playerbases. Eso already has the benefit of skyrim’s Popularity as a gateway and once in you realize how great the graphics are and enjoyable the combat system can be. Something not many other mmos can provide

That’s a bit of a stretch. PVP isn’t the primary reason an MMO becomes popular. It’s a variety of things to almost equal amounts, including PVP. I think you might be overestimating how popular PVP is in an MMO community, or your underestimating how popular other aspects of an MMO are. PVP might be your favourite thing, but it certainly isn’t everybody’s.

Irylia

Katahdin wrote: »

Irylia wrote: »

Katahdin wrote: »

Irylia wrote: »

If pvp was competitive and thriving they would have more potential players.

PvP would be thriving if the lag and performance issues would be fixed.

If they make all overland maps pvp maps, the mass exodous of pve players will lead to the game shutting down because while there are a bunch of pvp players, there are not enough to keep the game running.

If the Cyrodiil leaderboard lists (PCNA) are accurate, there are about 3000-5000 PVP players per alliance depending on the week

Of course this assumes no faction and campaign switching and it assumes people are not running multiple characters each campaign. We already know that no where near that number is playing at any one time.

So if all the assumptions above are true (PS they are not, see below) 10000-15000 players is not enough to populate a pvp map the size of all of tamriel or keep the game running.

Many people run multiple characters, sometimes in multiple factions to get the monthly transmutation geodes. I personally run at least 6 every month.
Some people play in different groups in different factions.

So the actual number of PvPers is below 10000/12000

You didn’t read.
I said a sep instance of the pve zones.
Pvp wouldn’t conflict with pve players in any way. You q into a pvp instance of the overland zones much like you q for cyro

I forgot to comment on that part, sorry.
Sperate servers have been asked for before many times.
They are not going to run up a whole second set of servers and split the playerbase.

You are just making it it’s own instance.
Not a sep server.
Currently two players in a group, in overland zones, could both travel to storm-haven and not be able to see one another. This is because they are in different instances and these instances are split to help server performance when one instance gets too filled. So you travel to player and it brings you to their instance.

It’s like a sheet of paper that you cut in half from top to bottom. So you have two identical sheets of paper, but now they are just thinner.

Better yet when you pull a Kleenex sheet apart and it becomes more transparent while you hold one piece in each hand.

I’m asking for there to be a pvp instance which can only be entered via q’ing into the pvp war
So all their pvp antics are sep from pve but they are allowed the freedom to use the terrain

Jules

I honestly love this idea of pvp in instanced pve zones. It’s brilliant and phenomenal. I woulda never thought to do that, cause when everyone says “pvp in pve” all I think is griefing and it being not realistic. But this atleast is very possible, and it would be awesome to play in new zones with cool new landscapes and strategy.

Only thing I don’t like about this idea is the implementation of more “stand on flags idly” and then you take it strat. The point system you detailed is great, the travel, defense and combat mechanics are nice. Let’s just please please advocate for capture mechanics that are more tactical and less brain dead than what we have on every single other objective in PvP zones.

Rough options:
Something as simple as:
1) “spread out to four different levers and simulataneously push, then recondense to center and push to capture X” - ppl have to spread & recondense, makes capture harder and more thoughtful, makes the group more vulnerable by all being solo at points and the counter group has to strategize where to go/ who is weakest etc.
2) Or perhaps “fend off this area from 2 opposite enemy teams and kill X players on it to capture it” - so you have to be able to tank and spank but stay in an isolated area to capture, build & group optimization comes into focus.

Ideas like this and others make for more fun, engaging pvp and we should advocate for it. I think we’ve all stood on enough flags for a lifetime. But keep up the innovation for real, you are always coming up with smart ideas about pvp in cool ways and that should always be celebrated.

Minno

They should have group duel options too. Crown starts a fight with another crown and the two groups duke it out.
Group loses when last player dies or top metals earned at end of a set duration.

Have achievements tied to location too. Example, "Redguard Brawler" could be where you win a duel with two groups filled with either swords or redguards only in any location in Alkir. Or one where there are no heal wins, no respawns, etc.

I also like the original OP idea as well. ZOS can really have fun with flavorful pvp modes in this game but somehow don't.