[Class Reps] Meeting Notes - September 25

Masel

ruikkarikun wrote: »

Masel92 wrote: »

Phage wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Phage wrote: »

Instant cast is required in this fast paced combat.

40% of max hp is pretty freaking low considering most DPS only run ~17k.

A 7k shield isn't worth anything, even my DK Tank's Igneous shield is more than that.

Yeah this actually may or may not be worse than a cast time for PVE...

It's better and worse at the same time. They reverted one nerf and gave us another.

Reducing the power of Shields in pve was the whole point. You wanna survive, get yourself a healer or a bit more health on magicka toons in pve. With 20k health the shield is already 8k. They have resistances now, something that many people don't seem to consider here. PvE mobs are at level 50, so the resistance will mitigate a lot of damage on you, because you are level 66.

Because light armor has low resistance? Because white mob deals 8-32k hit in FH dungeon for example? You think all players are good equipped and played? I was with pugs causals VROM, they didn't do mechanic at second boss even after I copy-pasted full step-by step tactics to chat.

Why stamina dps with 16k health (for example briatheart+relequen or any other meta setup) with access to roll dodge/block/run a lot with high stamina pool don't invest any point to HP, etc and doing 30-40k+ dps, and sorcerer after this changes need to be 25k HP tank with 15k dps?

ARE YOU PEOPLE INSANE?

Did you go on the pts and a test the change? even with 15k resistance, it is gonna mitigate a lot of damage if the shield is up. Mobs have level 50 and you are level 66 effectively, making your resistance more effective.

Having 25k would firstly not be necessary and secondly not lead to 15k dps, come on, at least get your numbers right and stop exaggerating.

Elsterchen

Well, for what its worth... I am still not sure wether i should laugh or cry when looking at the changes to sorc shields.

In effect this surely bring templars shield (sun shield) more in line with all other shields, tho.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

We also said it was unfortunate that much of our class identity has been taken away because the Champion System (and gear) has so much power.

Thank you for that. Keep the heat on the terrible champion system that has destroyed our beloved classes.

Ragnarock41

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

We also said it was unfortunate that much of our class identity has been taken away because the Champion System (and gear) has so much power.

Thank you for that. Keep the heat on the terrible champion system that has destroyed our beloved classes.

Many people don't realize how important this is. The shieldstacking sorcs, unkillable Dks, fights that last for eternity, those are all things that happen in CP campaign. As a non-cp player by choice, I saw the side-effects as me and many of my friends got affected by nerfs that are results of CP system's power creep.

One of the biggest problems for me is the fact that ZOS tries to solve these issues with gear sets, and those sets are always aimed to balance CP problems, and then they end up DESTROYING no-cp gameplay. This double-edged sword did not bring any balance at all though and it has to stop. CP and No-CP diversion should have never happened.

Its obvious that no-cp is the literal hard mode especially when it comes to sustain and cp is way too watered down, but there must be a middle way to this.

IZZEFlameLash

I really don't think CP is the cause of lack of class identities. It is more the result of mechanic changes that force players into DPS and speed meta. Like, CP doesn't turn the squishy into super tank. CP also did not force the high mobility, high DPS meta. Cries to nerf defensive aspects of the game and the following mechanic changes did. And the recent sets they added in doesn't help much either. If anything, I'd argue CP brings back identities somewhat. For example, you are not gonna invest in Thaumaturge on your Sorc like you do on Templars/DKs would you?

Yes, CP also mends some weakness of your classes but no matter how much CP you put in, it's still going to be your weak spot as other classes where their strength lies in your weak spot will still be better off than you on that particular weakness. I'd agree that CP would need adjustments if it was providng as strong of bonuses as before.

I'd also say that CP brings build diversity as it allows you to play to your build's strength and tweaking weak spots to cover a bit of your inherent class weakness and build weakness on non-broken sets utilizing builds. And CP also allows you to gain back some nerfed effects back into play so you can make a build that may not work at all in no-CP work. In my opinion, broken sets had a lot more to do with those olden day complaints like infinite sustain tanks. Broken sets or mechanics (like infinite Bat Swarm DKs) brought forth nerfs that stripped identities more than anything imo. This probably won't sit well with some people but, it is my opinion.

ruikkarikun

Masel92 wrote: »

ruikkarikun wrote: »

Masel92 wrote: »

Phage wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Phage wrote: »

Instant cast is required in this fast paced combat.

40% of max hp is pretty freaking low considering most DPS only run ~17k.

A 7k shield isn't worth anything, even my DK Tank's Igneous shield is more than that.

Yeah this actually may or may not be worse than a cast time for PVE...

It's better and worse at the same time. They reverted one nerf and gave us another.

Reducing the power of Shields in pve was the whole point. You wanna survive, get yourself a healer or a bit more health on magicka toons in pve. With 20k health the shield is already 8k. They have resistances now, something that many people don't seem to consider here. PvE mobs are at level 50, so the resistance will mitigate a lot of damage on you, because you are level 66.

Because light armor has low resistance? Because white mob deals 8-32k hit in FH dungeon for example? You think all players are good equipped and played? I was with pugs causals VROM, they didn't do mechanic at second boss even after I copy-pasted full step-by step tactics to chat.

Why stamina dps with 16k health (for example briatheart+relequen or any other meta setup) with access to roll dodge/block/run a lot with high stamina pool don't invest any point to HP, etc and doing 30-40k+ dps, and sorcerer after this changes need to be 25k HP tank with 15k dps?

ARE YOU PEOPLE INSANE?

Did you go on the pts and a test the change? even with 15k resistance, it is gonna mitigate a lot of damage if the shield is up. Mobs have level 50 and you are level 66 effectively, making your resistance more effective.

Having 25k would firstly not be necessary and secondly not lead to 15k dps, come on, at least get your numbers right and stop exaggerating.

I'm not elitist and a majority of this game too. My pet sorc dps on skeleton is 25-27k, and you want me to go tanky? While on LIVE magicka nightblades have 40k+ on skeleton with good sustain?
On live server I have 18k+hp, while doing LESS damage then 16k magicka nightblade. WHy you don't ask for NERF NIGHTBLADE?
DOn't tell me about annulment, nightblade at least have huge selfheal and sustain even nerfed better then sorcerer.

Tell me if shields so OP why on LIVE server on all veteran trials all dds are not magicka sorcerer? (magicka nightblade capping)
How one shot mechanics design, healers and shields have connection? I don't see any.
You just want sorcerer to be trash everywhere.
Again what about the majority casuals players, who want to have middle lvl, this nerfs will send them down. I don't care about 0.1% elitist can do 30k dps in tanky setup after patch, I'm not elitist.

AND THA MAIN QUESTION ON THIS AND PREVIOUS PATCNOTES TELL ME AT LEAST ONE SINGLE BUFF FOR SORCERER? (pet cost reduce, pathetic)

Emma_Overload

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

We also said it was unfortunate that much of our class identity has been taken away because the Champion System (and gear) has so much power.

Thank you for that. Keep the heat on the terrible champion system that has destroyed our beloved classes.

Many people don't realize how important this is. The shieldstacking sorcs, unkillable Dks, fights that last for eternity, those are all things that happen in CP campaign. As a non-cp player by choice, I saw the side-effects as me and many of my friends got affected by nerfs that are results of CP system's power creep.

One of the biggest problems for me is the fact that ZOS tries to solve these issues with gear sets, and those sets are always aimed to balance CP problems, and then they end up DESTROYING no-cp gameplay. This double-edged sword did not bring any balance at all though and it has to stop. CP and No-CP diversion should have never happened.

Its obvious that no-cp is the literal hard mode especially when it comes to sustain and cp is way too watered down, but there must be a middle way to this.

I understand the problems you are talking about, but I think the solution is very different from what other people have been suggesting. I think ZOS needs to:

1) Get rid of Battle Spirit and all No-CP modes. Battlegrounds, for example should be CP only. The WHOLE game should be CP only! Also, damage and healing mechanics need to be balanced around PvP FIRST, then adjust PvE to match.

2) Quit pretending to newer players that they are fully "leveled" at 160 CP. The true max level of this game is whatever the CP cap is - currently 780 CP, right?

3) Quit balancing the hard content to 160CP or 300CP or whatever. The hard "endgame" content (Vet dungeons, trials etc.) needs to be balanced to the current CP cap. They can leave overland PvE content to auto-scale to the players level, so players have content they can use to level and L2P..

4) Balance all PvP modes (including Battlegrounds) according to the expectation that the player is optimal when fully leveled to the current CP cap. PvP is really endgame content, and players should expect to put in the same effort to improve their toons that PvE players do.

5) Give enterprising players, including PvP players, plenty of opportunities to gain XP quickly so that they spend as little time suffering as a "lowbie" as necessary. Streamline the process to attain Undaunted and Alliance ranks as much as possible.

6) Quit coddling weaker players with stupid proc sets like Zaan, Shield Breaker, Sloads and Anguish. The "Raise the floor, lower the ceiling" paradigm is RUINING ESO PvP! Leave the floor down low, the ceiling up high, and let the newbies suffer relentless failure until they level up and L2P.

Ivan04

So instead of nerfing shields they're getting a buff. GJ, tank meta will never die now.

Juhasow

Masel92 wrote: »

ruikkarikun wrote: »

Masel92 wrote: »

Phage wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Phage wrote: »

Instant cast is required in this fast paced combat.

40% of max hp is pretty freaking low considering most DPS only run ~17k.

A 7k shield isn't worth anything, even my DK Tank's Igneous shield is more than that.

Yeah this actually may or may not be worse than a cast time for PVE...

It's better and worse at the same time. They reverted one nerf and gave us another.

Reducing the power of Shields in pve was the whole point. You wanna survive, get yourself a healer or a bit more health on magicka toons in pve. With 20k health the shield is already 8k. They have resistances now, something that many people don't seem to consider here. PvE mobs are at level 50, so the resistance will mitigate a lot of damage on you, because you are level 66.

Because light armor has low resistance? Because white mob deals 8-32k hit in FH dungeon for example? You think all players are good equipped and played? I was with pugs causals VROM, they didn't do mechanic at second boss even after I copy-pasted full step-by step tactics to chat.

Why stamina dps with 16k health (for example briatheart+relequen or any other meta setup) with access to roll dodge/block/run a lot with high stamina pool don't invest any point to HP, etc and doing 30-40k+ dps, and sorcerer after this changes need to be 25k HP tank with 15k dps?

ARE YOU PEOPLE INSANE?

Did you go on the pts and a test the change? even with 15k resistance, it is gonna mitigate a lot of damage if the shield is up. Mobs have level 50 and you are level 66 effectively, making your resistance more effective.

Having 25k would firstly not be necessary and secondly not lead to 15k dps, come on, at least get your numbers right and stop exaggerating.

Are You sure on this one @Masel92 ? As far as I remember when You were more then 5 levels above mob level he started to miss like half of the attacks and You were getting no exp/loot for killing it and 16 levels above would mean basicly mob would not deal dmg at all to You. Also when we had veteran ranks I remember mobs had lv 50 v16 rank same as players and when one tamriel camed out every player under cp 160 started to be scaled up so I think it's very possible mobs still have lv 50 cp 150-160 same as players.

Also I think even if You were right that brings not much to discussion since dmg reduction You get from resistances when You fight vs mobs is constant (660 ~ 1%) so at this point mob level is irrelevant since all mobs currently have same level just different healthbars and dmg so when both variables (mob level and dmg reduction from resistances) are constant there is no such a things as "making resistances more effective".

Dymence

ruikkarikun wrote: »

Masel92 wrote: »

ruikkarikun wrote: »

Masel92 wrote: »

Phage wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Phage wrote: »

Instant cast is required in this fast paced combat.

40% of max hp is pretty freaking low considering most DPS only run ~17k.

A 7k shield isn't worth anything, even my DK Tank's Igneous shield is more than that.

Yeah this actually may or may not be worse than a cast time for PVE...

It's better and worse at the same time. They reverted one nerf and gave us another.

Reducing the power of Shields in pve was the whole point. You wanna survive, get yourself a healer or a bit more health on magicka toons in pve. With 20k health the shield is already 8k. They have resistances now, something that many people don't seem to consider here. PvE mobs are at level 50, so the resistance will mitigate a lot of damage on you, because you are level 66.

Because light armor has low resistance? Because white mob deals 8-32k hit in FH dungeon for example? You think all players are good equipped and played? I was with pugs causals VROM, they didn't do mechanic at second boss even after I copy-pasted full step-by step tactics to chat.

Why stamina dps with 16k health (for example briatheart+relequen or any other meta setup) with access to roll dodge/block/run a lot with high stamina pool don't invest any point to HP, etc and doing 30-40k+ dps, and sorcerer after this changes need to be 25k HP tank with 15k dps?

ARE YOU PEOPLE INSANE?

Did you go on the pts and a test the change? even with 15k resistance, it is gonna mitigate a lot of damage if the shield is up. Mobs have level 50 and you are level 66 effectively, making your resistance more effective.

Having 25k would firstly not be necessary and secondly not lead to 15k dps, come on, at least get your numbers right and stop exaggerating.

I'm not elitist and a majority of this game too. My pet sorc dps on skeleton is 25-27k, and you want me to go tanky? While on LIVE magicka nightblades have 40k+ on skeleton with good sustain?
On live server I have 18k+hp, while doing LESS damage then 16k magicka nightblade. WHy you don't ask for NERF NIGHTBLADE?
DOn't tell me about annulment, nightblade at least have huge selfheal and sustain even nerfed better then sorcerer.

Tell me if shields so OP why on LIVE server on all veteran trials all dds are not magicka sorcerer? (magicka nightblade capping)
How one shot mechanics design, healers and shields have connection? I don't see any.
You just want sorcerer to be trash everywhere.
Again what about the majority casuals players, who want to have middle lvl, this nerfs will send them down. I don't care about 0.1% elitist can do 30k dps in tanky setup after patch, I'm not elitist.

AND THA MAIN QUESTION ON THIS AND PREVIOUS PATCNOTES TELL ME AT LEAST ONE SINGLE BUFF FOR SORCERER? (pet cost reduce, pathetic)

No one is going to build more tanky. If changes go through as is people will find a way with current health values and smaller shields. As for your previous comment - yes, not everyone has good equips. But if you don't have good equips, nor put the effort in to get it, why should you deserve to clear certain veteran content?

And how is this a nerf for magicka sorcerer in PVE? You understand every single magicka class relies on shields equally? Well, you obviously don't, but maybe you will think about it now?

Lorem123

Masel92 wrote: »

Mobs have level 50 and you are level 66 effectively, making your resistance more effective.

...What? You maintain a thread about the game formulas so I'm sure you know how they work? In light of which this doesn't make any sense. There is no form of interaction between player and enemy level. Level is irrelevant other than determining the flat resistance amount that equals 1% damage reduction.

Masel

Lorem123 wrote: »

Masel92 wrote: »

Mobs have level 50 and you are level 66 effectively, making your resistance more effective.

...What? You maintain a thread about the game formulas so I'm sure you know how they work? In light of which this doesn't make any sense. There is no form of interaction between player and enemy level. Level is irrelevant other than determining the flat resistance amount that equals 1% damage reduction.

Yeah true, against players it is true (since if their level is lower, their penetration values will be lower compared to your resistance) but mobs do not have any penetration, so it isnt that way. Still, the fact stands that resistance mitigates a signifiant portion of damage against shields now. I remembered the formula wrong, only target level and own penetration matters. If you have 15k resistances, that is going to mitigate roughly 23% damage against you. The most prominent suggestion was to halve shields in pve, and remove them from battlespirit, but this solution achieves exactly that. 40% of old strength + 25% mitigation (with higher resistance it is more mitigation) is roughly half of what they did before. With 20k resistance you're already at over 30% mitigation.

Apherius

The week 2 changes to Dark Deal were needed and the skill is something that sorcerers can work with now.

Now we are stuck with a skill nobody is gonna use in PVE ...

CurvedSwords123

Just an idea on this potential air attro thing for Stamsorcs. Again, I really don't think it should be a summon. How about it be a self transformative ultimate like the DK's corrosive armour? It would obviously confer different benefits but it would be mechanically similar.

CurvedSwords123

Apherius wrote: »

The week 2 changes to Dark Deal were needed and the skill is something that sorcerers can work with now.

Now we are stuck with a skill nobody is gonna use in PVE ...

We need more universally useful summoner line passives, hopefully conducive to better sustain.

Krymzonbladez

All of this is still completely ***, making the shields be crittable removed the issue with them being "op" in pvp. Everything after that singular change is just being a jerk to most players who aren't in the top 5-10%. Shields being "op" in noncompetitive modes just seems a stupid thing to say they are functioning as designed. I don't understand why if the issue was only with magsorcs why would you make a change to a NON-class skill ergo annulment and so forth. It makes little to no sense at all.

Dymence

Krymzonbladez wrote: »

All of this is still completely ***, making the shields be crittable removed the issue with them being "op" in pvp. Everything after that singular change is just being a jerk to most players who aren't in the top 5-10%. Shields being "op" in noncompetitive modes just seems a stupid thing to say they are functioning as designed. I don't understand why if the issue was only with magsorcs why would you make a change to a NON-class skill ergo annulment and so forth. It makes little to no sense at all.

"Noncompetitive modes" is a really bad argument. Why not simply give us god mode commands and ability to oneshot mobs and bosses with light attacks then? And they already said they found shields overperforming in PVE in general, not just magsorcs, that's why the light armor shield is getting the same treatment. It makes perfect sense when you understand their vision.

cpuScientist

Okokok

I have mained Sorc forever. My favorite Magicka class and stamina class.

Stamina Sorcerer is supposed to be all about the weapon line and I get it. But please bie that a Stan morph of the ultimates are possibly going through.

Air atronach makes sense in the AOE morph for sure. It is definitely fitting and would be nice in PVE. No doubt. But it would not be used in PvP. It would not change anything for us. We would still be lacking identity.

Stamina Overload however, especially with the new direction overload is being taken. Just makes sense. It gives sta Sorc an identity. If it's nade to return Stam on hit like the mag one it gives sustain through ultimate as seems to be the desire. It gives many new builds and ideas and just a refresh to the class in PvP. And help in the area if ssustain and monotonous rotation in PVE. And if it's strong enough take away from the over reliance on bow ultimate. It truly would be a fantastic change.

Now I believe both should go down. Air atronach and overload. Both make sense. But if it us only one please highly consider overload!

@ZOS_Wrobel

ruikkarikun

@ZOS_RobGarrett @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Wrobel

How sorcerer pets (scamp and twilight matriarch) will survive in veteran dungeons and trials?
Because now in Live server pets are useless in veteran trials, and sometimes die in veteran dungeons (DLC, matriarch dies in vMA, vDSA).
So if they die with 20k shields how they will survive with 6k shield?

Namarkas

ruikkarikun wrote: »

@ZOS_RobGarrett @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Wrobel

How sorcerer pets (scamp and twilight matriarch) will survive in veteran dungeons and trials?
Because now in Live server pets are useless in veteran trials, and sometimes die in veteran dungeons (DLC, matriarch dies in vMA, vDSA).

pets aren't useless on live. Their targeting is sometimes screwed, and meele range adds suffer from the same fate meele players do in certain content: being meele sucks. But I cannot remember the last time I played with a pet and it actually died while I was still alive. They used to be banned from certain encounters like vAA or vAS, bc they triggered mechanics too. Which they do not anymore (petsorc vAS was perfectly doable without the pet dying). A petsorc I know once wrote that shielding up before the world shaper in SO actually prevents the pets from dying.

So if they die with 20k shields how they will survive with 6k shield?

This one has me worried aswell though. I get it, ZOS doesn't want us to have 18k shields while being full offensive, but is it really an issue that our AI controlled, more or less stationary pets which have to be double barred, have that kind of shields? Making the pet step out of stupid is night impossible.
EDIT: not even sure if it will be the case. Could easily be implemented in a way that simply cuts any "overshield" AFTER they are applied to your pets. Will have to wait until this change hits PTS.

Dymence

ruikkarikun wrote: »

@ZOS_RobGarrett @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Wrobel

How sorcerer pets (scamp and twilight matriarch) will survive in veteran dungeons and trials?
Because now in Live server pets are useless in veteran trials, and sometimes die in veteran dungeons (DLC, matriarch dies in vMA, vDSA).
So if they die with 20k shields how they will survive with 6k shield?

Pets dying is completely unrelated to the shield. They die because they literally walk into a lingering AOE field with very high damage and stay in it because it's near the target they're attacking. Nothing short of spamming shield exclusively (aka stopping all dps for atleast 10~ seconds) is going to save them, which is not worth it.

Pets are dying because of the mechanics design and their interaction with said mechanics.

Lorem123

Dymence wrote: »

Pets dying is completely unrelated to the shield. They die because they literally walk into a lingering AOE field with very high damage and stay in it because it's near the target they're attacking. Nothing short of spamming shield exclusively (aka stopping all dps for atleast 10~ seconds) is going to save them, which is not worth it.

Pets are dying because of the mechanics design and their interaction with said mechanics.

Pets have 80% damage reduction from all AoEs. There are very few of those that kill them, as long as you shield them once in a while, which you most likely do as a side effect of shielding yourself. The problems are some mechanics and some AoEs they should simply be immune to because there's no saving them.
Thurvokun's poison AoE and Balorgh environmental damage during hunts are the only two things in the latest 4-man vet content that kill them frequently, unless you keep shielding them quite insistently. Thurvokun's AoE kills them because the damage increases every tick and ticks fast, and on Balorgh HM they step into too much environment damage during hunts (including right near the poison blossoms which deal massive damage).

Dymence

Lorem123 wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Pets dying is completely unrelated to the shield. They die because they literally walk into a lingering AOE field with very high damage and stay in it because it's near the target they're attacking. Nothing short of spamming shield exclusively (aka stopping all dps for atleast 10~ seconds) is going to save them, which is not worth it.

Pets are dying because of the mechanics design and their interaction with said mechanics.

Pets have 80% damage reduction from all AoEs. There are very few of those that kill them, as long as you shield them once in a while, which you most likely do as a side effect of shielding yourself. The problems are some mechanics and some AoEs they should simply be immune to because there's no saving them.
Thurvokun's poison AoE and Balorgh environmental damage during hunts are the only two things in the latest 4-man vet content that kill them frequently, unless you keep shielding them quite insistently. Thurvokun's AoE kills them because the damage increases every tick and ticks fast, and on Balorgh HM they step into too much environment damage during hunts (including right near the poison blossoms which deal massive damage).

Yeah, I'm specifically talking about lingering ground AOEs that increase in damage the longer you sit in them. vHoF 2nd boss lightning dash AOE and vAS+2 Llothis poison teleport AOE come to mind. They can be near the boss and the pet will just sit in it until it dies.

maboleth

ApostateHobo wrote: »

Don't understand why they're pretty much punishing people for choosing to be mag dps. Stop sucking the fun out of the game for everyone dang it and actually improve things instead of constantly ruining them. Going to end up killing the game if they keep up this kind of "balancing" for every class.

100% agree on this. It does feel like punishment in a way. What someone said - want to prevent stacking? Let the shields overwrite each other...

maboleth

Lorem123 wrote: »

ZOS_RobGarrett wrote: »

Shields still stack the same way as before. We didn't change that behavior. The health-based cap is applied per individual shield.

ZOS_RobGarrett wrote: »

The current plan is for the new cap (based on maximum health) to be enforced after Battle Spirit is applied. In your example, if a Sorc with 24k hp and 35k Magicka casts Annulment:

1. The shield would start at 12,250. (35k Magicka * 0.35 coefficient)
2. The shield would be halved by Battle Spirit to 6,125.
3. The shield would be unaffected by the health-based cap, because 6,125 < 9,600. (9,600 = 40% of 24k hp)

The team will continue to monitor and evaluate the change though.

So...

People's main complaint with shields is sorc shield stacking in PvP.
Your nerf shields all around for all light armor users, sorcerers in particular.
You do nothing for sorc shield stacking in PvP. On the very contrary, you encourage it as only viable way to get a decent shield size again.

Lol?

When will your company stop nerfing the fun out of everything and instead start making the game more enjoyable by applying proper changes to things that actually need them?
When will your company stop taking the quick and easy route to save time and dev effort instead of developing new, more appropriate mechanics for balance? (eg separate PvE and PvP skill balance sheet, a mechanic addressing shield stacking specifically, etc.)

Are you so desperate to keep people playing the game longer that you need to harm survaviability in PvE so bad so people will die more, have a harder time completing new content and therefore staying more time at it, playing the game?
Yet are you so short on dev time and resources to implement challenging content to accomplish that goal, that you instead need to resort to these artificious nerfs?
Do you really think this won't instead backfire just pushing away people from the game, because being dead on the floor repeatedly is not fun?

Again, totally agree on this. I also thought ZOS was after shield stacking... but reading Devs notes now, they clearly "legitimize" shield stacking, as a natural way of playing sorcs.

I mean, really? If anything, people complain on unkillable sorcs masterfully stacking those shields 100% of time? The easiest solution is to ban the stacking for sorcs - either choose conjure ward or annulment. Or increase the cost every time you stack them.

cpuScientist

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE!!!

Just give wrecking blow morph instant cast. Alot of stamina classes simoky don't have a good spammable for PvP. It's why Stam whip is so asked for. Because if they use eh they are forced into dizzy. It's why SnB is so popular because it atleast has instant spammable.

Imbue is fantastic in PVE it us horrendous in PvP. It feels ckunky and disjointed.

Wrecking blow ofcourse would have it's damage and cost reduced. It would let the secondary effects the empower feel more useful. It would open plenty of options up for PvP. And even pve.

@ZOS_Wrobel @ZOS_RobGarrett

arasysb14_ESO

Is it me or is Harness Magicka going to be more useful than Conjured Ward?

Let's see: we got Crystal Shard, Streak, Overload and Conjured Ward gutted. I understand offensive skills will be changed in the future, but currently I don't see a reason to suggest a new player to level a sorcerer so we can start doing decent dungeons together. Please remember, there are lots of people who are new to RPGs, MMOs out there. I can do hard content just fine, but sitting right next to a new player and seeing their struggle made me change my perspective. New DLC dungeons' normal modes are somewhat "impossible" for this player segment. This situation gives them impression that they should avoid DLC dungeons. With this shield nerf, I believe new players playing pet sorcerers will be hit really hard. A lot of them feel "hey I leveled up got better armor, but I am weaker now?!" and I can see why..

I appreciate instant cast is back, but making shields unstackable or adding increasing costs (for spamming), while keeping shield strength about at least 70% of health could solve tons of potential problems for both pet and non-pet sorcerers.

I don't see why pet sorcerers' sustain was buffed, thought it was non-pet sorcerers that cant even finish 6 million dummy tests.

smee_z

May be days late but I would like to express my much appreciation and thanks to ALL the CLASS REPS.

Gnozo

Easiest solution to "balance" shields for pve and pvp is this:

Reduced shield size by 50% make battlespirit not effect shields. Shields share your spell/phys resist and your crit resist.

So pve wise nerf but still okay. Hardened ward will still be around 10-14k but wont allow to run vet content without a healer. And average player will still be able to complete content like vma .

Pvp wise sorcs now also need to put some defensive up. Like Resistences buff and full impen and still shields will go down really fast.

Easy, simple and without triggering every shield user.

profundidob16_ESO

LordSlif wrote: »

ZOS_RobGarrett wrote: »

itzTJ wrote: »

So does that change to shields occur before or after battle spirit. Because shields are cut in half in pvp. So if a sorc has like 20-24k health, as most do, then they can expect an 8k - 12k shield? (not the best a math). But if you cut it in half because of battle spirit then a sorc with that amount of health is looking at a very small shield. Can someone clarify?

The current plan is for the new cap (based on maximum health) to be enforced after Battle Spirit is applied. In your example, if a Sorc with 24k hp and 35k Magicka casts Annulment:

1. The shield would start at 12,250. (35k Magicka * 0.35 coefficient)
2. The shield would be halved by Battle Spirit to 6,125.
3. The shield would be unaffected by the health-based cap, because 6,125 < 9,600. (9,600 = 40% of 24k hp)

The team will continue to monitor and evaluate the change though.

stack shields in pvp is a huge problem and ZoS will keep it... omg

correction: stacking too powerful shields is a problem. You can either prevent stacking all together or you can nerf the shields up to the point where the global CD and player speed of pressing buttons kicks in and the the total stacked value is no longer worth the amount of skill slots it requires.