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Is Swift balanced?
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Finviuswe✭✭✭✭oxygen_thief wrote: »most bgs modes are broken cause of swift. try to catch prem group which has ball and runs faster than horse. with every new patch this game is getting worse. devs dont know what they are doing
Swift was actually a great addition, it's made the game more fun.
You want to know how ot counter swift? Run swift, yourself.2 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Buff Swift. It's 2018, there has to be a troll optionoxygen_thief wrote: »most bgs modes are broken cause of swift. try to catch prem group which has ball and runs faster than horse. with every new patch this game is getting worse. devs dont know what they are doing
Swift was actually a great addition, it's made the game more fun.
You want to know how ot counter swift? Run swift, yourself.
Your post itself is a proof as to why swift needs a slight nerf.
When the only counter to something is using it yourself, that means its time for the nerf hammer.7 -
oxygen_thief✭✭✭✭✭
✭its ridiculous. if sorcs are op run one yourself. if some trait is op run it yourself. what is about diversity?0 -
Finviuswe✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »oxygen_thief wrote: »most bgs modes are broken cause of swift. try to catch prem group which has ball and runs faster than horse. with every new patch this game is getting worse. devs dont know what they are doing
Swift was actually a great addition, it's made the game more fun.
You want to know how ot counter swift? Run swift, yourself.
Your post itself is a proof as to why swift needs a slight nerf.
When the only counter to something is using it yourself, that means its time for the nerf hammer.
I'm open to that
I mean, here's the question. Is it overperforming? Yes, It is overperforming, but only slightly.
I would say that the justified nerf would be to 1% on each of the various quality levels.
So Gold would offer a 9% bonus. Epic would offer an 8% bonus. That would be the sweet spot where it is still viable yet isn't overperforming. Anything more than that, and the trait is dead.
Even a 1% nerf may kill the trait, more testing is necessary.0 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Buff Swift. It's 2018, there has to be a troll optionRagnarock41 wrote: »oxygen_thief wrote: »most bgs modes are broken cause of swift. try to catch prem group which has ball and runs faster than horse. with every new patch this game is getting worse. devs dont know what they are doing
Swift was actually a great addition, it's made the game more fun.
You want to know how ot counter swift? Run swift, yourself.
Your post itself is a proof as to why swift needs a slight nerf.
When the only counter to something is using it yourself, that means its time for the nerf hammer.
I'm open to that
I mean, here's the question. Is it overperforming? Yes, It is overperforming, but only slightly.
I would say that the justified nerf would be to 1% on each of the various quality levels.
So Gold would offer a 9% bonus. Epic would offer an 8% bonus. That would be the sweet spot where it is still viable yet isn't overperforming. Anything more than that, and the trait is dead.
Even a 1% nerf may kill the trait, more testing is necessary.
I would say it is just way too cost effective, why? lets compare it to other sets and passives that give you movement speed.
You trade 870 stam or magicka for %10 movement speed, which is HUGE, because it is not bound by a timer or tied to sprinting. you just move faster and can stack this with minor/major expedition. so on a stamsorc I can run 3 swift, have a speed pot and boom, now I have %70 bonus movement speed without even sprinting, and I will hit speed cap when I sprint.
No need for medium armor or orc, which makes it even funnier cause orc and medium armor passives only grant you movement speed for sprinting.
Meanwhile sets like fiord's legacy or coward's gear will give you movement speed ONLY when you sprint. there is a large difference between these two cases, one is sprinting speed, other is movement speed. A massive difference.
I would say a good thing to do would be trying swift with only %6-7 movement speed in the PTS , or changing swift so its stil %10 but only works with sprint. These are the only solutions I see for this issue.
Right now I can throw both fiords and cowards out of the window, just run this set and compensate for the lost stats with a set like shackle/draugr/necro etc.. the result? Free mobility with no issues.
Anyways, I don't even think I need to talk too much about this, I got so much hate on forums for calling things overpowered every single time. Happened with bleeds,defiles,incap,cloak,shieldstacking, permablocking.... But I feel like this time I don't even need to say much because its already obvious how potent this new trait is.Edited by Ragnarock41 on September 9, 2018 12:29AM4 -
Swift is fine as isLieblingsjunge wrote: »Swift itself is fine.
What needs to be done is that it doesn't stack with Major/Minor Expedition.
Because with major/minor exp. + 3x swift, nobody can ever catch up to you. Put a cap on the movement speed and limit it to e.g. 1 major expedition speed + sprint(Like before Swift) maximum.
Just give speed -stacking the Sprint-cost/speed-treatment, as to where you put a cap on how fast someone can run. Problem solved.
That way you deal with the issue that's speed-stacking for already hyper-mobile classes, and you don't take it away from the magicka classes that finally has some movement-speed.
The magicka classes? Stam dk has been the slowest class since forever! Stam dk needs this speed boost more than any other class.Edited by TheNorthernDragon on September 9, 2018 12:42AM0 -
Arkangeloski✭✭✭✭Swift is fine as isI wish to know how many of the posts wanting for Swift to be nerfed are stamina mains who are mad that magicka users finally have some speed.
Other than stealth speed increase, aren't all the sets that increase base or sprinting speed stamina sets? Yeah the sets may not be that great but if a stamina player so chooses they can be at the +100% speed cap. Magicka users don't have that option unless they want all the other bonuses to be stamina based.
Magicka users can now have +92%(Swift, Rapids(or other form of Major), Speedpots and 2% from Wind Running) out of the +100%... but it's OP?
What am I missing, why is it so important that magicka users stay slow?
-edit to note- Speed pot is not included as it can't be up 100% of time, and even when it is up it wont take you over cap.
You are good my friend, it's the other way around...0 -
Arkangeloski✭✭✭✭Swift is fine as isleepalmer95 wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »You know, you don't have to chase right?
If they leave to build ult, you can go in the opposite direction and boom problem solved
It’s not OP because you can run away? If that’s the new measure they can stop pretending to balance at all.
Well, kinda yes. Same logic applies to everything used when running circles on a tower.
The whole reason the running player has an advantage is because they dictate the battle; choosing where and when to battle/flee
If you control said decisions you have the advantage; i.e. if you force a battle say in an open area vs around LoS.
LoS is the most powerful 1vX tool, and it requires players to play in uncomfortable positioning. Remove that aspect and you'll be the determining factor.
Not too on the ball ATM but I think the jist is there
It's not even just line of sight.
Have you even tried to hit someone with skills who has a speed pot up and several swift? With dizzying it's impossible, same with jabs etc...
Don't need to mitigate dmg if your impossible to target in the first place.
See if you were a smart cookie u would not be here complaining instead why not trying to use swift to land those clunky dizzing swings lol... Even without swift (triune for me) u won't hit me with it bc I can just walk Tru you so it is not a swift thing same with jabs just side roll... Now if you had swift you could just walk back as I try to walk Tru you and if I side roll just walk on the same direction... It actually makes dizzing swing easier to land and it makes the spamable in par with other spamables imo. Is that broken to ya bud? Don't think so.2 -
IZZEFlameLash✭✭✭✭✭
✭Swift should be 5% per jewelry pieceAll these defense arguments highlights the problems. Lol.Imperials, the one and true masters of all mortal races of Tamriel5 -
Drakkdjinn✭✭✭✭✭
✭Swift should be 5% per jewelry pieceRagnarock41 wrote: »oxygen_thief wrote: »most bgs modes are broken cause of swift. try to catch prem group which has ball and runs faster than horse. with every new patch this game is getting worse. devs dont know what they are doing
Swift was actually a great addition, it's made the game more fun.
You want to know how ot counter swift? Run swift, yourself.
Your post itself is a proof as to why swift needs a slight nerf.
When the only counter to something is using it yourself, that means its time for the nerf hammer.
This guy gets it.2 -
TankHealz2015✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »Swift is fine because it can be easily countered... just roll some Swift traits yourself!
You know what the REAL problem is? Forward Momentum.
If you want to nerf something, nerf Forward Momentum, because it gives an insane advantage to Stamina over Magicka builds. I'm sick and tired of being snared and rooted all the time, but MY Encase has no effect whatsoever except to waste my magicka.
Hey, that was me too... literally screaming at the computer.. "how the #@#^@ is he perma-immune to CC" !!!!!!!
You know the ones... running around in circles, cant be CC'd, super fast, then he just turns around and shot kills people...
Talons spam = no effect, DK chains = no effect, stone fist = no effect, shield charge = no effect.... and then go read the forums to figure out why,,, and see post after post claiming "because potatoes dont use CC abilities...."
So thank you for posting this. Because, now I switched to 2 hander and WOW!!!! I'm immune to CC too and I love it !!!!!
2 Hander skill Forward Momentum must be the absolute best skill = major brutlity, heal, and CC immune all for 2400 stam !!!!
Now just gonna add one swift jewelry + speed pot + either swap to Orc race for the speed bonus or use the steed mundus.
Awesome!
This thread has really helped me alot.
PS: swift + lag still #@%%1 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Swift is fine as isDrakkdjinn wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »Swift is fine because it can be easily countered... just roll some Swift traits yourself!
You know what the REAL problem is? Forward Momentum.
If you want to nerf something, nerf Forward Momentum, because it gives an insane advantage to Stamina over Magicka builds. I'm sick and tired of being snared and rooted all the time, but MY Encase has no effect whatsoever except to waste my magicka.
Forward Momentum (of all things) over-performing ?
That's a new one. Don't you think all the shields, ranged combat and resto ult of mag builds might offset that a bit? To each their own.
There's no such thing as "ranged combat" in PvP.
Lol are you for real
Play Sorc in Imperial City, and you'll find that everyone and their mother is spamming roots and gap closers. The only way you'll ever be able to run a rotation on somebody from 28 meters is stand in the middle of a friggin' zerg and hope nobody notices you.#CAREBEARMASTERRACE3 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Swift is fine as isRagnarock41 wrote: »oxygen_thief wrote: »most bgs modes are broken cause of swift. try to catch prem group which has ball and runs faster than horse. with every new patch this game is getting worse. devs dont know what they are doing
Swift was actually a great addition, it's made the game more fun.
You want to know how ot counter swift? Run swift, yourself.
Your post itself is a proof as to why swift needs a slight nerf.
When the only counter to something is using it yourself, that means its time for the nerf hammer.
Running Swift is not the only counter to Swift, though.
Roots and snares SHOULD be counters to Swift (or any speed boosting mechanic), but they aren't very effective because of.... wait for it.... Forward Momentum and Shuffle. if you want to nerf something, nerf FM and Shuffle, then ALL of us will be on equal footing.#CAREBEARMASTERRACE4 -
Amdar_Godkiller✭✭✭✭✭Swift should be 7.5% per jewelry pieceEmma_Overload wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »oxygen_thief wrote: »most bgs modes are broken cause of swift. try to catch prem group which has ball and runs faster than horse. with every new patch this game is getting worse. devs dont know what they are doing
Swift was actually a great addition, it's made the game more fun.
You want to know how ot counter swift? Run swift, yourself.
Your post itself is a proof as to why swift needs a slight nerf.
When the only counter to something is using it yourself, that means its time for the nerf hammer.
Running Swift is not the only counter to Swift, though.
Roots and snares SHOULD be counters to Swift (or any speed boosting mechanic), but they aren't very effective because of.... wait for it.... Forward Momentum and Shuffle. if you want to nerf something, nerf FM and Shuffle, then ALL of us will be on equal footing.
Forward momentum needs a nerf because it grants a CC immunity duration thats far too long for the cost. It's so powerful that it's become a part of many mag builds just based on cost-benefit analysis.
Shuffle OTOH is expensive, and grants hardly any CC immunity duration. It's much easier to spam dodge roll than it is to spam shuffle. It's probably the single skill in this game most in need of a buff besides soul trap and the Tangled Webs skill from the Undaunted skill line. A reduced cost at the very least is long past due.
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cpuScientist✭✭✭✭✭
✭Swift is fine as isAmdar_Godkiller wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »oxygen_thief wrote: »most bgs modes are broken cause of swift. try to catch prem group which has ball and runs faster than horse. with every new patch this game is getting worse. devs dont know what they are doing
Swift was actually a great addition, it's made the game more fun.
You want to know how ot counter swift? Run swift, yourself.
Your post itself is a proof as to why swift needs a slight nerf.
When the only counter to something is using it yourself, that means its time for the nerf hammer.
Running Swift is not the only counter to Swift, though.
Roots and snares SHOULD be counters to Swift (or any speed boosting mechanic), but they aren't very effective because of.... wait for it.... Forward Momentum and Shuffle. if you want to nerf something, nerf FM and Shuffle, then ALL of us will be on equal footing.
Forward momentum needs a nerf because it grants a CC immunity duration thats far too long for the cost. It's so powerful that it's become a part of many mag builds just based on cost-benefit analysis.
Shuffle OTOH is expensive, and grants hardly any CC immunity duration. It's much easier to spam dodge roll than it is to spam shuffle. It's probably the single skill in this game most in need of a buff besides soul trap and the Tangled Webs skill from the Undaunted skill line. A reduced cost at the very least is long past due.
Well not CC immunity immibilize immunity. Such as snares and roots. They can still be CC'd.
The problem I usually see when people are chasing is you have a few guys just spamming CC like a Sorc just spamming cage, but with no follow up planned. Like they will rune cage then nothing. Basically giving a free immunity. Or javelin but had nothing to follow up with. Then they get their pot and it's an immov so they good to go and get away.
DON'T GIVE FREE CC IMMUNITY, public service announcement.0 -
Amdar_Godkiller✭✭✭✭✭Swift should be 7.5% per jewelry piececpuScientist wrote: »Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »oxygen_thief wrote: »most bgs modes are broken cause of swift. try to catch prem group which has ball and runs faster than horse. with every new patch this game is getting worse. devs dont know what they are doing
Swift was actually a great addition, it's made the game more fun.
You want to know how ot counter swift? Run swift, yourself.
Your post itself is a proof as to why swift needs a slight nerf.
When the only counter to something is using it yourself, that means its time for the nerf hammer.
Running Swift is not the only counter to Swift, though.
Roots and snares SHOULD be counters to Swift (or any speed boosting mechanic), but they aren't very effective because of.... wait for it.... Forward Momentum and Shuffle. if you want to nerf something, nerf FM and Shuffle, then ALL of us will be on equal footing.
Forward momentum needs a nerf because it grants a CC immunity duration thats far too long for the cost. It's so powerful that it's become a part of many mag builds just based on cost-benefit analysis.
Shuffle OTOH is expensive, and grants hardly any CC immunity duration. It's much easier to spam dodge roll than it is to spam shuffle. It's probably the single skill in this game most in need of a buff besides soul trap and the Tangled Webs skill from the Undaunted skill line. A reduced cost at the very least is long past due.
Well not CC immunity immibilize immunity. Such as snares and roots. They can still be CC'd.
The problem I usually see when people are chasing is you have a few guys just spamming CC like a Sorc just spamming cage, but with no follow up planned. Like they will rune cage then nothing. Basically giving a free immunity. Or javelin but had nothing to follow up with. Then they get their pot and it's an immov so they good to go and get away.
DON'T GIVE FREE CC IMMUNITY, public service announcement.
I main a warden so I think of roots as CCs because these damn icicles are all I got.
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cpuScientist✭✭✭✭✭
✭Swift is fine as isBut momentum is a but overtuned compared to shuffle and now dk wings. Though those both also give strong secondary effects. Whereas the piddly 2 second heal on momentum is weak. And you are giving up the only burst heal for most Stam. So it's a strong trade-off. And over nerfing momentum would kill the skill making all those guys now have rally and able to to burst heal to full. Or swap to med use tank armor and need less Swifty so they hit alot harder and then we complain about how there is so much dodge spam in the game.1 -
Amdar_Godkiller✭✭✭✭✭Swift should be 7.5% per jewelry pieceForward momentum has become a defacto mag build skill though because of the fact that it is so cheap to use, so many of those who use it aren't really seeing a trade off, and are merely using it for the super cheap and unusually long root and snare immunity.
If a class can get away with not using rally, then they'll use FM, but rarely if ever is it an actual choice.
I think the duration of the root immunity should be cut in half and the cost minutely increased for FM, but the base HOT should be buffed, while slightly nerfing rally's burst heal. That keeps both morphs balanced while making the skill less attractive to wiley mag builds..1 -
Pijng✭✭✭Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »Forward momentum has become a defacto mag build skill though because of the fact that it is so cheap to use, so many of those who use it aren't really seeing a trade off, and are merely using it for the super cheap and unusually long root and snare immunity.
If a class can get away with not using rally, then they'll use FM, but rarely if ever is it an actual choice.
I think the duration of the root immunity should be cut in half and the cost minutely increased for FM, but the base HOT should be buffed, while slightly nerfing rally's burst heal. That keeps both morphs balanced while making the skill less attractive to wiley mag builds..
I agree. Just wanted to point out, that some mag builds are choosing FM not because its just 'attractive' but because its a must have. You're gonna hate your life if you go as a melee magblade without FM.
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The Uninvited✭✭✭✭✭
✭Swift is fine as isRagnarock41 wrote: »or changing swift so its stil %10 but only works with sprint.
I would be okay with this, good suggestion. The only char I use swift on is my magDK so I can sprint faster, so that would be fine for me.Pandora's Promise (rip) | LND | Pactriotic | IKnowWhatUDidLastWinter's | The Uninvited |
Ride the paranoia | All life is pain | Only the grave is real2 -
Amdar_Godkiller✭✭✭✭✭Swift should be 7.5% per jewelry pieceAmdar_Godkiller wrote: »Forward momentum has become a defacto mag build skill though because of the fact that it is so cheap to use, so many of those who use it aren't really seeing a trade off, and are merely using it for the super cheap and unusually long root and snare immunity.
If a class can get away with not using rally, then they'll use FM, but rarely if ever is it an actual choice.
I think the duration of the root immunity should be cut in half and the cost minutely increased for FM, but the base HOT should be buffed, while slightly nerfing rally's burst heal. That keeps both morphs balanced while making the skill less attractive to wiley mag builds..
I agree. Just wanted to point out, that some mag builds are choosing FM not because its just 'attractive' but because its a must have. You're gonna hate your life if you go as a melee magblade without FM.
That's the one class I don't have at max level, so I'll take your word on it; but what about https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Elusive+Mist ? Pretty sure I've seen several Magblades abusing it.
And honestly, it's another skill in need of balancing, as the mitigation is a bit excessive, but the cost also seems a bit high,maybe change it to 60% damage reduction while lowering the cost by 15% to make it a more attractive root remover and less attractive means of never taking damage between cloaks.0 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Buff Swift. It's 2018, there has to be a troll optionThe Uninvited wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »or changing swift so its stil %10 but only works with sprint.
I would be okay with this, good suggestion. The only char I use swift on is my magDK so I can sprint faster, so that would be fine for me.
I think it would put it in line with other options.0 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Swift is fine as is.Ragnarock41 wrote: »The Uninvited wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »or changing swift so its stil %10 but only works with sprint.
I would be okay with this, good suggestion. The only char I use swift on is my magDK so I can sprint faster, so that would be fine for me.
I think it would put it in line with other options.
I'd say that'd make swift worthless1 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Buff Swift. It's 2018, there has to be a troll optionWaffennacht wrote: ».Ragnarock41 wrote: »The Uninvited wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »or changing swift so its stil %10 but only works with sprint.
I would be okay with this, good suggestion. The only char I use swift on is my magDK so I can sprint faster, so that would be fine for me.
I think it would put it in line with other options.
I'd say that'd make swift worthless
Better to have such a thing worthless than an absolute must have on any build.Edited by Ragnarock41 on September 10, 2018 7:35PM0 -
_Ahala_✭✭✭✭✭
✭Swift is fine as isRagnarock41 wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: ».Ragnarock41 wrote: »The Uninvited wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »or changing swift so its stil %10 but only works with sprint.
I would be okay with this, good suggestion. The only char I use swift on is my magDK so I can sprint faster, so that would be fine for me.
I think it would put it in line with other options.
I'd say that'd make swift worthless
Better to have such a thing worthless than an absolute must have on any build.
Better to have such a thing balanced than to make it completely worthless... just look at sun shield, cliff racer, trapping webs, fire rune, impulse, blade cloak, wrecking blow, wings, siphoning strikes, frag, rune prison, streak, and eye of flame if you want examples...
Instead of asking for nerfs to swift you should be asking for range buffs for class skills to 7m and 2h skills to 10m and asking zos to fix their targeting system...
Not everyone wants to crawl around permasnared and get devoured by heavy armor zergs or be denied the ability to kite completely because zos decided to deny snare immunity to anyone not wearing medium armor or using forward momentum or reflective plate and then put powerful snares on half of the abilities in the game (including a gap closer because why not)
If swift gets nerfed and snares don’t that’s just gonna be another buff to zergs3 -
WreckfulAbandon✭✭✭✭✭
✭Swift should be 7.5% per jewelry piece5% movement speed and 5% speed bonus to sprint sounds balanced. More balanced than throwing around stackable minor expeditions like candy at least. If it changed to this might even change some of my swift jewelry back but it's absolutely mandatory and non-negotiable on my stamplar.
Snares have been nerfed already and Forward Momentum gives up a burst heal. Shuffle is expensive af. Swift on the other hand is less than 900 resources for each minor expedition buff, which stack with major/minor expedition.PC NA
All my comments are regarding PvP1 -
Finviuswe✭✭✭✭Yes, maybe a slight decrease in the buff given would be the right move, that would put swift in check with it remaining runnable0
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Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Buff Swift. It's 2018, there has to be a troll optionRagnarock41 wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: ».Ragnarock41 wrote: »The Uninvited wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »or changing swift so its stil %10 but only works with sprint.
I would be okay with this, good suggestion. The only char I use swift on is my magDK so I can sprint faster, so that would be fine for me.
I think it would put it in line with other options.
I'd say that'd make swift worthless
Better to have such a thing worthless than an absolute must have on any build.
Better to have such a thing balanced than to make it completely worthless... just look at sun shield, cliff racer, trapping webs, fire rune, impulse, blade cloak, wrecking blow, wings, siphoning strikes, frag, rune prison, streak, and eye of flame if you want examples...
Instead of asking for nerfs to swift you should be asking for range buffs for class skills to 7m and 2h skills to 10m and asking zos to fix their targeting system...
Not everyone wants to crawl around permasnared and get devoured by heavy armor zergs or be denied the ability to kite completely because zos decided to deny snare immunity to anyone not wearing medium armor or using forward momentum or reflective plate and then put powerful snares on half of the abilities in the game (including a gap closer because why not)
If swift gets nerfed and snares don’t that’s just gonna be another buff to zergs
Again, I don't feel the need to explain. You'll understand me when those ''heavy armor zergs'' start using it themselves and only then you will realize that it has became a crutch. The sheep are slow learners, but they will adapt eventually, and when they do, it will be quite fun to watch.Edited by Ragnarock41 on September 10, 2018 9:44PM0 -
CatchMeTrolling✭✭✭✭✭
✭Needing swift is just another bandaid fix. Still wouldn’t address the actual problem which is servers, lag and terrible targeting/telegraphed skills.0