Is Swift balanced?

Waffennacht

Swift is fine as is

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

How do you know if someone is actually using Swift and not speed pots if they’re running ? Because I’m pretty sure it’s people that think I have swift traits.

Why wouldn't you use expedition and swift?

Drakkdjinn

Swift should be 5% per jewelry piece

$ummeset traits are demonstrably op, esp with CP available. Anyone who says otherwise either uses it to their advantage or don’t kno PvP.

Source: I kill people, swiftly.

moosegod

Swift is fine as is

Movement speed is fine because you do give up some stats to zoom. It raises skill cap because it gives experienced players who can manage lower resources a form of mitigation if they want to zoom in and out between burst attempts. Also it's just plain fun to use.

The problem is; like others have said, that the game's performance can't always keep up with speed so it does allow for some cheese. Therefore it's not swift that should be nerfed but its the mechanics which allow it to occasionally overperform that should be fixed. The same thing can be said about many changes to this game. Stop nerfing things to unfun and just buff other things up to fun levels. Sadly nerfing is the easier, cheaper, option.

CatchMeTrolling

Waffennacht wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

How do you know if someone is actually using Swift and not speed pots if they’re running ? Because I’m pretty sure it’s people that think I have swift traits.

Why wouldn't you use expedition and swift?

I’m not using swift on a stam sorc or stam argonian characters.

Thogard

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

How do you know if someone is actually using Swift and not speed pots if they’re running ? Because I’m pretty sure it’s people that think I have swift traits.

On PC NA literally everyone runs speed pots with 100% uptime. Swift is assumed to be in addition to that, so nobody would ever mistake one for the other.

Ragnarock41

Buff Swift. It's 2018, there has to be a troll option

Thogard wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

How do you know if someone is actually using Swift and not speed pots if they’re running ? Because I’m pretty sure it’s people that think I have swift traits.

On PC NA literally everyone runs speed pots with 100% uptime. Swift is assumed to be in addition to that, so nobody would ever mistake one for the other.

Why run one and not the other anyways? to have what else? tripots? detect pots? meaningless. This is why mobility creep is a thing in this game. But you can't just nerf those things carelessly because without mobility, stamina is pointless.

Waffennacht

Swift is fine as is

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

How do you know if someone is actually using Swift and not speed pots if they’re running ? Because I’m pretty sure it’s people that think I have swift traits.

On PC NA literally everyone runs speed pots with 100% uptime. Swift is assumed to be in addition to that, so nobody would ever mistake one for the other.

Why run one and not the other anyways? to have what else? tripots? detect pots? meaningless. This is why mobility creep is a thing in this game. But you can't just nerf those things carelessly because without mobility, stamina is pointless.

Without them; Templars are at a big disadvantage tho.

No native expedition, no real maneuvering advantage at all really.

Emma_Overload

Swift is fine as is

Swift is fine because it can be easily countered... just roll some Swift traits yourself!

You know what the REAL problem is? Forward Momentum.

If you want to nerf something, nerf Forward Momentum, because it gives an insane advantage to Stamina over Magicka builds. I'm sick and tired of being snared and rooted all the time, but MY Encase has no effect whatsoever except to waste my magicka.

NyassaV

Swift is fine as is

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

It should follow other games' rules where fast hits less hard because they are very fast tbh.

NyassaV wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

You can clearly see the difference between having swift and not.

Trying to use skills such as dizzying or jabs vs someone with 2/3 swift is just impossible.

Trying to catch anyone with swift when you don't have them is annoying.


When something new basically becomes advised by every competent pvper, yeah its strong.

I haven't got the dlc myself, but i've dueled against people with and without swift and the difference is obvious, i've seen how much more survivable they become with it open world as well.

It's a soft p2w aspect of the game, pretty much its either pay zos for a overpriced dlc or simply always be at a disadvantage in pvp.

Mobility was always a unique aspect or either medium users sprinting or stam sorc's. Now you get a free minor expedition from giving up 800 stamina/ magicka.

I wouldn't mind but you don't really give anything up for the speed. The resource loss isn't even noticeable.

Resources lost translates to what... about 200~300ish loss of damage on the tooltip for burst damage skills? So very negligible compared to when you can basically not get hit since you move so fast that you outrange any of the melee skills which is especially more troublesome for classes like mDK and Templars. Nothing like animation suddenly disappear and sometimes consuming resources (I am looking at you, Leap and Flame Lash). 2500 ish resource for better mitigation and resource drain (lol). Hardly a sacrifice if you ask me.

If you are magicka it is far more important. Shields and healing ect ect

I mean, Sorcs have no real need for Swift. NBs don't have real need for Swift either. But then, those classes with Swift trait takes their mobility to the next level, much less likely to get hit because '2fast4u' translates to less need for bigger shield and less need of heals. Swift NB and Sorc can completely neutralize melee range class like mDK and Sweep build mTemplar due to fast movement. Less things to shield from. No real sacrifice made there. And I also believe that 45k~50k shields aren't that different. So, if you have upper 40k to over 50k max magicka already, you probably are not losing much. Can't check just yet because I stashed my mSorc in her pokeball.

If you don't use 2h then yeah nightblade has all the reason in the world to try swift

NyassaV

Swift is fine as is

technohic wrote: »

ccmedaddy wrote: »

ZOS, if you're going to nerf Swift because of this thread can you at least give us magicka speed+immovable pots please? Give stam folks their useless detect pots if they want lol.

I live detect pots. Only problem is they trigger your potion cooldown leaving you at a disadvantage if the stealthy guy can actually fight and not just gank. They’ll be able to use speed and immovable pots while you are stuck not even able to pop something when the NB is still bursty. Makes them pretty much just useable when you are going to outnumber the NB.

Maybe if the nightblade isn't just a ganker they deserve to live hmmmmmmm?

NyassaV

Swift is fine as is

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Swift is fine because it can be easily countered... just roll some Swift traits yourself!

You know what the REAL problem is? Forward Momentum.

If you want to nerf something, nerf Forward Momentum, because it gives an insane advantage to Stamina over Magicka builds. I'm sick and tired of being snared and rooted all the time, but MY Encase has no effect whatsoever except to waste my magicka.

better idea, give magicka a froward momentum

Finviuswe

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Swift is fine because it can be easily countered... just roll some Swift traits yourself!

You know what the REAL problem is? Forward Momentum.

If you want to nerf something, nerf Forward Momentum, because it gives an insane advantage to Stamina over Magicka builds. I'm sick and tired of being snared and rooted all the time, but MY Encase has no effect whatsoever except to waste my magicka.

Forward Momentum (of all things) over-performing ?

That's a new one. Don't you think all the shields, ranged combat and resto ult of mag builds might offset that a bit? To each their own.

Qbiken

Swift should be 5% per jewelry piece

Tried swift on for the first time this weekend (on a stamsorc werewolf) and I don´t think I´ll be able to play without swift now. The loss of stats/tooltip damage is neglectable and the extra mount of survivability I´ve gained from swift outweights the loss of stats.

As leepalmer95 said, you don´t have to mitigate damage if they can´t hit you in the first place. Immovable + Swift + Major/minor expedition + Forward Momentum makes you untouchable. Only way to keep up is to run a similar build.

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Swift is fine because it can be easily countered... just roll some Swift traits yourself!

You know what the REAL problem is? Forward Momentum.

If you want to nerf something, nerf Forward Momentum, because it gives an insane advantage to Stamina over Magicka builds. I'm sick and tired of being snared and rooted all the time, but MY Encase has no effect whatsoever except to waste my magicka.

Agree

I would reduce the duration to 4 or 5 seconds. 8 seconds is too much. In addition to this I would increase the snare immunity duration of shuffle to 6-8 seconds (6 seconds with 5 medium pieces equipped, 8 seconds if you run 7 medium pieces).

Finviuswe

Qbiken wrote: »

Tried swift on for the first time this weekend (on a stamsorc werewolf) and I don´t think I´ll be able to play without swift now

The loss of stat don't do much... don't do much at all

I love swift. I think it is superb and 3 swift on a stam toon is a ton of fun, and potent as heck. Too potent

As I said I think it benefits stam more, but mag toons benefit from it as well. Anyone can benefit from it

Besides D-swing players. They just lose out.

cazlonb16_ESO

Qbiken wrote: »

Tried swift on for the first time this weekend (on a stamsorc werewolf) and I don´t think I´ll be able to play without swift now. The loss of stats/tooltip damage is neglectable and the extra mount of survivability I´ve gained from swift outweights the loss of stats.

As leepalmer95 said, you don´t have to mitigate damage if they can´t hit you in the first place. Immovable + Swift + Major/minor expedition + Forward Momentum makes you untouchable. Only way to keep up is to run a similar build.

That right there is the very definition of overpowered and broken. Not sure if that is what you were getting at as well, just wanted emphasize it.

Emma_Overload

Swift is fine as is

ESO_GOD wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Swift is fine because it can be easily countered... just roll some Swift traits yourself!

You know what the REAL problem is? Forward Momentum.

If you want to nerf something, nerf Forward Momentum, because it gives an insane advantage to Stamina over Magicka builds. I'm sick and tired of being snared and rooted all the time, but MY Encase has no effect whatsoever except to waste my magicka.

Forward Momentum (of all things) over-performing ?

That's a new one. Don't you think all the shields, ranged combat and resto ult of mag builds might offset that a bit? To each their own.

There's no such thing as "ranged combat" in PvP. Gap closers, snares and everything else are biased towards stamina and melee builds. The only way a ranged magicka build is going to actually play at range is from the middle of a zerg, and zerging is boring.

Forward Momentum is ABSOLUTELY over-performing. Just a few minutes ago I saw a bunch of guys chasing some stamina clown around and around and around, and they absolutely could NOT stop him. Not because of Swift trait, although he was probably wearing a couple of Swift rings, but because it is impossible to snare or root someone who keeps Forward Momentum buffed at all times. It's worse than Shuffle, and Shuffle needs a nerf, too.

Finviuswe

Whenever I attacked from range, I consider that ranged

Datthaw

Another problem I think is the changes to snares and base attacks. They cut those in like half and at the same time increase the speed of play by x amount. Makes it hard for those melee guys to land attacks.

Datthaw

But.... to everyone saying that the jewelry traits aren't better than the base arcane/robust. If they were not slightly better they would make nooooo sense at all and no one would ever use them. It's the same reason why everything newly released is "op" because zos wants money.

Septimus_Magna

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Swift is fine because it can be easily countered... just roll some Swift traits yourself!

You know what the REAL problem is? Forward Momentum.

If you want to nerf something, nerf Forward Momentum, because it gives an insane advantage to Stamina over Magicka builds. I'm sick and tired of being snared and rooted all the time, but MY Encase has no effect whatsoever except to waste my magicka.

I agree Forward Momentum is strong but it comes at a price because you have to give up your emergency burst heal.
Most stam heals are HoTs or small heals so giving up the Rally burst heal should give an equally good alternative.

The choice between Forward Momentum and Rally is actually a difficult one and that's a good thing.
In a perfect world all morph choices would be difficult because each skill has its own effectiveness.
Two good morphs increase diversity because it means not everyone will run the exact same skills.

technohic

Option 4 is the worst but I'm not suing

If they address roots and snares to be a little more tolerable the FM will not be that big of a deal. Right now roots and snares are still either completely devastating if you do not have FM or a group rapids slammer; or they are practically worthless if your target has those things.

I do feel like I’ve been running stam mostly lately because between root spam and every guard negate spamming like it’s just another ability and not an ultimate, just gets annoying

Waffennacht

Swift is fine as is

I'm just hoping it lasts longer than a runecage buff

technohic

Option 4 is the worst but I'm not suing

Waffennacht wrote: »

I'm just hoping it lasts longer than a runecage buff

I think it will. The more people inflate Swift’s value, the more sales they can make off Summerset. You can buy jewelry without owning it, but you can’t learn it to transmute your already gold jewelry

_Ahala_

Swift is fine as is

I love how everyone just points their fingers at swift on stam classes and demands that swift is op...

What about swift on Magden? Is that op with the 3-4K mag trade off? Swift is pretty much an essential trait on that subclass to gain any type of viability in Cyrodiil... Magden is a ranged class that’s supposed to survive and kill by diving in and out of fights with high mobility (like a falcon hunting prey ) as indicated by their snare reduction passive, access to 100% uptime expedition, and the fact that you have to aim your fissures... Yet we have no snare and root immunity... thrown dagger, stampede, low slash, and jabs and oh... look at that... your a wounded bird now who can no longer create any distance to utilize racer and fissure effectively

Remove swift and this hit and run play style dies and Magdens will be forced for the 4th patch in a row to adapt to new tactics... Good luck killing anything when your snared and rooted into oblivion and your opponent is running laps around your fissures...

What am I saying... guess it just doesn’t matter what happens to Magden at this point as no one plays it... yep let’s just nerf all shields because Sorcerors, nerf all healing because Templars, nerf all crit healing because Nightblades, nerf all roots because Dragonknights, nerf swift because Stam classes, and nerf Trees and Shimmering Shield because Stamden... Not gonna hurt the game balance much cause their are only a couple dozen Magdens left anyway

If swift gets nerfed it’s gonna be another kick in the head to Magden in an effort to nerf Stamden again... What, is Magden gonna get a snare and root immunity skills or is the snare reduction passive gonna get buffed? Noooo can’t do that or else stamden will be able to run rally and heal even more... Are we gonna get a morph of Icy Gate reworked into an area of denial skill... Noooo because tanks need a whole tree where both skills are theirs... Is Magden gonna get a unique speed buff in their passives or actives that ensures they will be able to play as intended... Nope, every buff must be major and minor to prevent build diversity from getting anywhere... They will probably just turn both morphs of Scorch into a dot or partial dot to nerf Stamden burst and uninstall the last few Magden mains... but first let’s just nerf Swift without regards for Magdens because someone killed a few Nightblades on their super speedy Stamsorc

TLDR: Magden main genuinely salty about having to change playsyles completely every patch as a result of getting caught in the crossfire of nerfs to other setups... For Magden, swift is basically necessary (as the class has no wings style snare immunity, streak style mobility skills, or daedric mine style area denial) Magden needs mobility in order to escape zergling ball groups and negate some of the effects of snare spam to actually land fissures or build distance to utilize the secondary effect of cliff racer

KingExecration

All this talk of nerfing speed pots is crazy. I don’t run swift but if you start nerfing my pots I’ll be tripling up swift tbh.

Drakkdjinn

Swift should be 5% per jewelry piece

Emma_Overload wrote: »

ESO_GOD wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Swift is fine because it can be easily countered... just roll some Swift traits yourself!

You know what the REAL problem is? Forward Momentum.

If you want to nerf something, nerf Forward Momentum, because it gives an insane advantage to Stamina over Magicka builds. I'm sick and tired of being snared and rooted all the time, but MY Encase has no effect whatsoever except to waste my magicka.

Forward Momentum (of all things) over-performing ?

That's a new one. Don't you think all the shields, ranged combat and resto ult of mag builds might offset that a bit? To each their own.

There's no such thing as "ranged combat" in PvP.

Lol are you for real

Taleof2Cities

Option 4 is the worst but I'm not suing

technohic wrote: »

I don’t take issue with swift as a concept. You’re giving up something for mobility. The problem is the damned servers can barely handle normal speed

^This.^

Swift in the hands of the right player and the right movement management is quite effective.

That said, I do see a lot of PvP players running around solo in their newly minted 300k Swift jewelry set ... sometimes running away, most of the time not doing any damage.

leepalmer95

Swift should be 5% per jewelry piece

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

I don’t take issue with swift as a concept. You’re giving up something for mobility. The problem is the damned servers can barely handle normal speed

^This.^

Swift in the hands of the right player and the right movement management is quite effective.

That said, I do see a lot of PvP players running around solo in their newly minted 300k Swift jewelry set ... sometimes running away, most of the time not doing any damage.

Lets be honest if they're not doing any dmg it has nothing to do with swift.

Losing like 3k stats isn't going to suddenly make a build deal no dmg.

All it's going to do is make them uncatchable unless you have max movement speed.

Ranger209

Swift is fine as is

I'm just starting to play with this myself, and I think it is fine. You are still slower than a sprinting horse at 100% sprint speed, slightly. Even before sprint was in game people used to run me down on foot frequently enough while I was trying to escape on horse back.

I am using it on an Orc with steed and honestly I think I am going to get rid of the steed, and don't really need being an Orc either. When you are sprinting with those attributes it is overkill as you are not getting the full effect of that stuff with the cap as it currently is. The sprint stam reduction is ok but there are other ways of lowering that and it really isn't a big advantage to have.

Major and minor gets you 40% and 3 swift gets you another 27-30% depending on purple or gold jewelry, at that point sprint itself takes you over cap. In reality 2 swift is enough for sprinting purposes. 3 swift help when not sprinting, but people been running around fast forever prior to swift. It's not that much different, it's different, but not that much different. 12 meters per second is good with a speed buff. Sprint unbuffed gets you about 8-9 meters per second which real world is fairly slow.

oxygen_thief

most bgs modes are broken cause of swift. try to catch prem group which has ball and runs faster than horse. with every new patch this game is getting worse. devs dont know what they are doing