Is Swift balanced?

Lord_Sando

Swift is fine as is

Swift is fine my only reason to use d swing again and they reduced the distance of 2 handed attacks. LEAVE SWIFT ALONE

Waffennacht

Swift is fine as is

You know, you don't have to chase right?

If they leave to build ult, you can go in the opposite direction and boom problem solved

Runs

Swift is fine as is

There is a speed cap. Swift is fine.

Arkangeloski

Swift is fine as is

SilverWF wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »

It's incredibly OP., but until last night, I would have said it's pretty well balanced, but that was before a magblade with full swift Benny HIll'd like 7 of us for 30 minutes at Castle Faregyl. I think 8% is ideal.

Or they could keep it as is and revert the changes that were made to detection pots, that allow players to see when they are being used. Cloak + 3 swift is just kind of ridiculous.

A mag nb can do that without swift, I did it all the time when I played melee magblade.

And what would stop NBs from stacking that with 3x swift?

A speed cap

Arkangeloski

Swift is fine as is

Ariades_swe wrote: »

Don't nerf swift but put a cap on movement speed.

There is one already

Arkangeloski

Swift is fine as is

.

Rikumaru

Swift is fine as is

What's wrong with swift being a competitive pick vs other traits? From what I've seen people are running robust / arcane just as much, if not more. Hell people are even running harmony. If swift got nerfed to 5% it would become a dead trait.

IAVITNI

Swift should be 5% per jewelry piece

Meant to vote change to 7.5%.

Honestly I'm fine with Swift but the fact that I see so many people switching to it is indicative of an upcoming problem.

Stam v Stam, it's not a problem at all but Stam v Mag it is, and only because of targeting issues and snares.

The durationreductions were nice but snares/roots should not be attached to spammables. Crippling Grasp, Talons and Vampires Bane are good examples of snares/roots because those skills are a net loss if spammed. Skills like Heroic Slash and Flying Dagger are horrible game design. I'll mention Jabs just because it is a spammable that snares but it doesn't fall into any of the above 2 categories, nor should it. Fixing these snare issues should be done first before any changes to Swift are done.

Nerfing Snares would not warrant a nerf to Swift since the value of Swift would actually diminish in this case. OFC this is all assuming they fix the targeting issue.

Personally I run Swift and I find it to be slightly too effective. I want to change pretty much every character (14 total) to Swift except magsorc and mag/stam blade.

Sharpened wasn't OP prior to the 50% value nerf. But it did limit diversity. I don't think cutting Swift in half is warranted since you are trading a lot more for Swift than you were with Sharpened.

IZZEFlameLash

Swift should be 5% per jewelry piece

IAVITNI wrote: »

Meant to vote change to 7.5%.

Honestly I'm fine with Swift but the fact that I see so many people switching to it is indicative of an upcoming problem.

Stam v Stam, it's not a problem at all but Stam v Mag it is, and only because of targeting issues and snares.

The durationreductions were nice but snares/roots should not be attached to spammables. Crippling Grasp, Talons and Vampires Bane are good examples of snares/roots because those skills are a net loss if spammed. Skills like Heroic Slash and Flying Dagger are horrible game design. I'll mention Jabs just because it is a spammable that snares but it doesn't fall into any of the above 2 categories, nor should it. Fixing these snare issues should be done first before any changes to Swift are done.

Nerfing Snares would not warrant a nerf to Swift since the value of Swift would actually diminish in this case. OFC this is all assuming they fix the targeting issue.

Personally I run Swift and I find it to be slightly too effective. I want to change pretty much every character (14 total) to Swift except magsorc and mag/stam blade.

Sharpened wasn't OP prior to the 50% value nerf. But it did limit diversity. I don't think cutting Swift in half is warranted since you are trading a lot more for Swift than you were with Sharpened.

Sharpened was BiS because no other traits came close to its usefulness in both PvP and PvE. Nirnhoned was useless compared to Sharpened, so was Precise basically. Nirnhoned got better because it got buffed and Sharpened nerfed at the same time and now is the best trait. Also, Sharpened did not make someone untouchable through speed which is what Swift does in this game. Sure, the core issue is this game's bad targeting and hitting mechanics. But, since I don't see ZOS changing this at all, I'd have them nerf Swift value or just decrease the speedcap so that the game's system can actually handle this.

GrigorijMalahevich

Buff Swift. It's 2018, there has to be a troll option

Obviously, Swift is fine!

It would have been used by every stamina player if it was overpowered.

Lingering speed potions are also fine or they would be used by every stamina player.

Feanor

Swift should be 5% per jewelry piece

Waffennacht wrote: »

You know, you don't have to chase right?

If they leave to build ult, you can go in the opposite direction and boom problem solved

It’s not OP because you can run away? If that’s the new measure they can stop pretending to balance at all.

Arthg

Valera Progib wrote: »

Obviously, Swift is fine!

It would have been used by every stamina player if it was overpowered.

Lingering speed potions are also fine or they would be used by every stamina player.

You forgot to mention forum pundits would come aflocking to protect their P2W cheese.

Runs

Swift is fine as is

I wish to know how many of the posts wanting for Swift to be nerfed are stamina mains who are mad that magicka users finally have some speed.

Other than stealth speed increase, aren't all the sets that increase base or sprinting speed stamina sets? Yeah the sets may not be that great but if a stamina player so chooses they can be at the +100% speed cap. Magicka users don't have that option unless they want all the other bonuses to be stamina based.

Magicka users can now have +92%(Swift, Rapids(or other form of Major), Speedpots and 2% from Wind Running) out of the +100%... but it's OP?

What am I missing, why is it so important that magicka users stay slow?

-edit to note- Speed pot is not included as it can't be up 100% of time, and even when it is up it wont take you over cap.

Finviuswe

Runs wrote: »

I wish to know how many of the posts wanting for Swift to be nerfed are stamina mains who are mad that magicka users finally have some speed.

Other than stealth speed increase, aren't all the sets that increase base or sprinting speed stamina sets? Yeah the sets may not be that great but if a stamina player so chooses they can be at the +100% speed cap. Magicka users don't have that option unless they want all the other bonuses to be stamina based.

Magicka users can now have +62%(Swift, Rapids(or other form of Major), and 2% from Wind Running) out of the +100%... but it's OP?

What am I missing, why is it so important that magicka users stay slow?

-edit to note- Speed pot is not included as it can't be up 100% of time, and even when it is up it wont take you over cap.

I don't mind at all with magicka users finally having a little more speed.

As someone who prefers to play stam, I am not bothered if my opponent who is a magicka user is a little speedier than they used to be. Stam players are speedier as well, swift is so potent it's a good idea for anyone to run.

However, swift is far more potent on stam because stam builds participate within melee range.

Datthaw

I'm not sa

Runs wrote: »

I wish to know how many of the posts wanting for Swift to be nerfed are stamina mains who are mad that magicka users finally have some speed.

Other than stealth speed increase, aren't all the sets that increase base or sprinting speed stamina sets? Yeah the sets may not be that great but if a stamina player so chooses they can be at the +100% speed cap. Magicka users don't have that option unless they want all the other bonuses to be stamina based.

Magicka users can now have +62%(Swift, Rapids(or other form of Major), and 2% from Wind Running) out of the +100%... but it's OP?

What am I missing, why is it so important that magicka users stay slow?

-edit to note- Speed pot is not included as it can't be up 100% of time, and even when it is up it wont take you over cap.

Speed pots have 100%uptime if you have alchemy passives.

Runs

Swift is fine as is

Datthaw wrote: »

I'm not sa

Runs wrote: »

I wish to know how many of the posts wanting for Swift to be nerfed are stamina mains who are mad that magicka users finally have some speed.

Other than stealth speed increase, aren't all the sets that increase base or sprinting speed stamina sets? Yeah the sets may not be that great but if a stamina player so chooses they can be at the +100% speed cap. Magicka users don't have that option unless they want all the other bonuses to be stamina based.

Magicka users can now have +62%(Swift, Rapids(or other form of Major), and 2% from Wind Running) out of the +100%... but it's OP?

What am I missing, why is it so important that magicka users stay slow?

-edit to note- Speed pot is not included as it can't be up 100% of time, and even when it is up it wont take you over cap.

Speed pots have 100%uptime if you have alchemy passives.

Ah you are right, so +92% if running speed pot's at each cd... (edited OP to reflect) but that still just puts mag at almost even with what stam could do without swift or speed pots, if they wanted. So I still see swift as more of an equalizer, not OP.

Ariades_swe

Swift is fine as is

Runs wrote: »

I wish to know how many of the posts wanting for Swift to be nerfed are stamina mains who are mad that magicka users finally have some speed.

Other than stealth speed increase, aren't all the sets that increase base or sprinting speed stamina sets? Yeah the sets may not be that great but if a stamina player so chooses they can be at the +100% speed cap. Magicka users don't have that option unless they want all the other bonuses to be stamina based.

Magicka users can now have +92%(Swift, Rapids(or other form of Major), Speedpots and 2% from Wind Running) out of the +100%... but it's OP?

What am I missing, why is it so important that magicka users stay slow?

-edit to note- Speed pot is not included as it can't be up 100% of time, and even when it is up it wont take you over cap.

Excactly.

Waffennacht

Swift is fine as is

Feanor wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

You know, you don't have to chase right?

If they leave to build ult, you can go in the opposite direction and boom problem solved

It’s not OP because you can run away? If that’s the new measure they can stop pretending to balance at all.

Well, kinda yes. Same logic applies to everything used when running circles on a tower.

The whole reason the running player has an advantage is because they dictate the battle; choosing where and when to battle/flee

If you control said decisions you have the advantage; i.e. if you force a battle say in an open area vs around LoS.

LoS is the most powerful 1vX tool, and it requires players to play in uncomfortable positioning. Remove that aspect and you'll be the determining factor.

Not too on the ball ATM but I think the jist is there

leepalmer95

Swift should be 5% per jewelry piece

Waffennacht wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

You know, you don't have to chase right?

If they leave to build ult, you can go in the opposite direction and boom problem solved

It’s not OP because you can run away? If that’s the new measure they can stop pretending to balance at all.

Well, kinda yes. Same logic applies to everything used when running circles on a tower.

The whole reason the running player has an advantage is because they dictate the battle; choosing where and when to battle/flee

If you control said decisions you have the advantage; i.e. if you force a battle say in an open area vs around LoS.

LoS is the most powerful 1vX tool, and it requires players to play in uncomfortable positioning. Remove that aspect and you'll be the determining factor.

Not too on the ball ATM but I think the jist is there

It's not even just line of sight.

Have you even tried to hit someone with skills who has a speed pot up and several swift? With dizzying it's impossible, same with jabs etc...

Don't need to mitigate dmg if your impossible to target in the first place.

ccmedaddy

Buff Swift. It's 2018, there has to be a troll option

ZOS, if you're going to nerf Swift because of this thread can you at least give us magicka speed+immovable pots please? Give stam folks their useless detect pots if they want lol.

technohic

Option 4 is the worst but I'm not suing

ccmedaddy wrote: »

ZOS, if you're going to nerf Swift because of this thread can you at least give us magicka speed+immovable pots please? Give stam folks their useless detect pots if they want lol.

I live detect pots. Only problem is they trigger your potion cooldown leaving you at a disadvantage if the stealthy guy can actually fight and not just gank. They’ll be able to use speed and immovable pots while you are stuck not even able to pop something when the NB is still bursty. Makes them pretty much just useable when you are going to outnumber the NB.

NBrookus

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

You know, you don't have to chase right?

If they leave to build ult, you can go in the opposite direction and boom problem solved

It’s not OP because you can run away? If that’s the new measure they can stop pretending to balance at all.

Well, kinda yes. Same logic applies to everything used when running circles on a tower.

The whole reason the running player has an advantage is because they dictate the battle; choosing where and when to battle/flee

If you control said decisions you have the advantage; i.e. if you force a battle say in an open area vs around LoS.

LoS is the most powerful 1vX tool, and it requires players to play in uncomfortable positioning. Remove that aspect and you'll be the determining factor.

Not too on the ball ATM but I think the jist is there

It's not even just line of sight.

Have you even tried to hit someone with skills who has a speed pot up and several swift? With dizzying it's impossible, same with jabs etc...

Don't need to mitigate dmg if your impossible to target in the first place.

It's this. Targetting one of these guys is nearly impossible for many skills.

If you walk away, they can control the battle by re-engaging at will while you cannot disengage. Meanwhile a stam player running lots of speed can disengage at will.

Cloak you have counters. They are bad counters, but they exist.
Hindrance poisons only partially slow them down, are RNG based and can't be proc'd if you can't target them in the first place.

Gaggin

Swift should be 7.5% per jewelry piece

Swift and movement speed in general need a rework. I just did a bg where both team were wearing swift, it was impossible to hit them with most of my attacks. Along with that most of the bg arenas are super kitey. Stam is already king in bgs. even the new arena has a freakin tower to kite around in. It's a good idea on papers, but the way targeting works in this game make is really hard to land attacks. Dizzying swipng was hard to land before swift, its downright impossible now between spead demons and dodge rolling.

I wouldn't mind seeing an overall speed cap, or making snares doubly effective against people with higher run speeds, I dunno if I was go as far as 5 percent cus it'd be nice to be able to justify putting on one trait. I'd rather a have bit of tradeoff like 'gives 5 percent spead 250 stam 250 mag', that way you're not giving up as much. It kinda hurst too that they nerfed snares last patch, people are catching on to this and its super annoying. As is its great in cyrodil and just way too OP in bgs, I feel i'm at a disadvanted if I'm not using this trait.

Runs

Swift is fine as is

Gaggin wrote: »

Swift and movement speed in general need a rework. I just did a bg where both team were wearing swift, it was impossible to hit them with most of my attacks. Along with that most of the bg arenas are super kitey. Stam is already king in bgs. even the new arena has a freakin tower to kite around in. It's a good idea on papers, but the way targeting works in this game make is really hard to land attacks. Dizzying swipng was hard to land before swift, its downright impossible now between spead demons and dodge rolling.

I wouldn't mind seeing an overall speed cap, or making snares doubly effective against people with higher run speeds, I dunno if I was go as far as 5 percent cus it'd be nice to be able to justify putting on one trait. I'd rather a have bit of tradeoff like 'gives 5 percent spead 250 stam 250 mag', that way you're not giving up as much. It kinda hurst too that they nerfed snares last patch, people are catching on to this and its super annoying. As is its great in cyrodil and just way too OP in bgs, I feel i'm at a disadvanted if I'm not using this trait.

There is an overall speed cap, it is +100% non sprinting speed. It can be reached without Swift.

Sylosi

Given that virtually nothing in this game is balanced, does it matter whether swift is or isn't balanced?

technohic

Option 4 is the worst but I'm not suing

It’s not really a question of whether Swift is balanced. Targeting in the game along with latency is the issue.

Most of the time; swift just does what it’s supposed to do in giving people some ability to escape. Great for non-NBs or sorcs that can spam streak still. I do run into on occasion; moments where you can’t fire direct target abilities including ranged abilities even when they are dead in front of you and your cross hair is right on them so it’s nit a matter of aim or them outranging the attacks, but there’s something with lag of the server not agreeing on their location with what you are seeing.

Shouldn’t be a surprise really. This issue could show up a bit more rarely pre-swift. They really need to fix their code.

Emmagoldman

As far as people having major + minor expedition along with all swift, isn't there a speed cap in place from when BG's came out? I imagine that combine would be waisting a trait a two

Skoomah

Swift is only OP if you chase. The playstyle is run run run, turn around, dawn breaker, steel tornado.

How to counter? Stop chasing, keep all your resources at reasonable levels and they won’t hit hard enough to kill you because you’ll have resources to tank their dmg. They give up a ton of stats to run around fast. Also, slot hard and soft CCs. Swift neutralized.

They running around a tree too fast? Move away from the tree and draw them out to the open field where your superior stats blows them up.

Can’t dumb down the game too much guys.

_Ahala_

Swift is fine as is

Skoomah wrote: »

Swift is only OP if you chase. The playstyle is run run run, turn around, dawn breaker, steel tornado.

How to counter? Stop chasing, keep all your resources at reasonable levels and they won’t hit hard enough to kill you because you’ll have resources to tank their dmg. They give up a ton of stats to run around fast. Also, slot hard and soft CCs. Swift neutralized.

They running around a tree too fast? Move away from the tree and draw them out to the open field where your superior stats blows them up.

Can’t dumb down the game too much guys.

Well said

30-70% Snares everywhere on useful spammables and aoes and no one bats an eye

30% Speed boost with the trade off of not being able to use other jewelry traits and everyone goes crazy

I know exists a serious problem with landing dizzying swing and jabs on fast characters but that’s more an issue with the targeting system of melee channeled abilities than movement speed... do we really need to remove the only thing that makes non sorc non nb zerg kiting possible?

CatchMeTrolling

How do you know if someone is actually using Swift and not speed pots if they’re running ? Because I’m pretty sure it’s people that think I have swift traits.