VMA Makes no Sense, and Here's Why

Bladerunner1

After a dozen clears this year, the first being several hours long and the last being 50 minutes, I think all VMA really teaches you is how to clear VMA. You won't magically become a juggernaut from experiencing it. Maybe you'll learn a lot if it's the first difficult content you've ever encountered, but just like everything else in the game you learn the mechanics or how to simply bypass them and it turns into a piece of cake.

Bypassing mechanics has never been easier since high CP damage dealers are tanked up with very high mitigation. You could go the extra mile in resistance mitigation and slot a tank set arcane jewelry + 2 heavy armor like Pariah at little cost to damage.

MaleAmazon

ESO is not a "team game", it is a combined solo and multiplayer game. Heck, I want equipment for single player that it is only possible to acquire in trials or 4-man dungeons, how does that make sense then? That is actually even worse since with vMA you can play it whenever you want and dont have to rely on finding other able people with time (looking at you vDSA).

vMA is also literally the ONLY tough solo challenge in the game.

People who enjoy playing with friends or guildies have a ton of veteran dungeons, vDSA, trials, and have it easier in Cyrodiil. We who like solo have ONE place that´s a challenge. If anything, there should be more.

SakuraRush

You don't have to play all three roles to complete VMA. In fact trying to do all three will cause you to fail. VMA is about damage and mechanics, plain and simple. At no point does being able to tank come into play. At no point does being able to heal others come into play.

You throw as much damage as possible at the wall while keeping yourself alive and performing the mechanics of the level.

The place that VMA isn't "fair" is in how a tank or healer would go about it. They can't. If you're a DPS focus you have no room to complain about VMA. It's made for you. It's easier today than it has ever been in the past.

SakuraRush

Undefwun wrote: »

mag Sorc, 2 pets, no bar swapping, in 1 hour with 1 death.
good calm explanation of every fight

https://youtu.be/cafavdcH7po

The exact set up I used for my first clear.

Even stronger today with staffs counting as 2 slots and jewelry crafting existing. Swap out shadow for literally any mag set and your ahead of the game.

I don't recall if the video used Maw or Grothdarr, I used Maw. Used trash pots and I think I only even needed them in two fights.

Malmai

After you get all weapons they just nerf it so you buy new DLC which got way better weapons in it...

Ragebull

I gave up on VMA about 3-4 months ago. Got stuck on the last boss and never went back, still have the quest in my journal lol. I’m not doing a research project and changing up my stamblade for this one thing when I’m good enough as is for literally everything else

And the only reason they hide awesome stuff behind VMA is because hardly anyone would do it without the weapon rewards. I haven’t met anyone who actually enjoys it, they only enjoy when it’s over

Darkdex

Ragebull wrote: »

I gave up on VMA about 3-4 months ago. Got stuck on the last boss and never went back, still have the quest in my journal lol. I’m not doing a research project and changing up my stamblade for this one thing when I’m good enough as is for literally everything else

And the only reason they hide awesome stuff behind VMA is because hardly anyone would do it without the weapon rewards. I haven’t met anyone who actually enjoys it, they only enjoy when it’s over

I actually enjoyed it for quite some time. Once you get the mechanics done it beecomes really fun to do, and you eventually become "a little" addcited to it, once you have completed it you'll want to improve and get your time as low as possible, and
you'll get frustrated again because you made idiotic mistakes which prevent you from reaching you time goal.

I got the weapons in about 100 runs back in the day where there was no trait change, and I kept running it up to about 300+ runs. I've got plenty of bow, infernos, lightnings, and restos, not so many daggers. And got my score as high as 560k+ (still, a lot of room for improvement) and time around 40 mins.

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO

I don't even use my vMA weapons anymore now that I can run 5-5-2 sets. The destro staff isn't useful enough in PvP to make me want to give up my second 5-piece bonus.

But with a magsorc pet build, you'll definitely be able to clear it with 680 CP. It's annoying as hell the first few times, and I've only done it twice. Thinking about going back in for the event, but then again, I don't really need any maelstrom weapons...

Kilnerdyne

Have a break from vMA for a while after not completing it and do other content inbetween gives you some time to practice your character in general. vMA is like everything else, perservering and finishing it once makes completing it again much more likely.

SoLooney

all i know is, i dont want to raid with someone that doesnt have maelstrom completes, it usually translates to bad raiders with little raid awareness and bad time on target

vma is old content and originally made for 300 cp. youre playing on one of the easiest classes with magblade probably being the easiest class.

if youre getting that frustrated, the weapons probably arent for you

Urvoth

jcmlongb16_ESO wrote: »

I think VMA is just right, it's one of the last bits of `hard content` left in the game. The general dumbing down of the game has spoiled so much and reduces the sense of achievement for for players. Take IC for example, the district bosses in there used to be a real challenge where you would need a decent group to bring them down, now you can solo them.

OP: You are not being "punished", would you say you were being punish for not being able to drive a car if you failed your driving test? At CP680 you still have a tonne of the game to experience, just enjoy it, i'm CP1057 and still haven't finished it on vet and i'm in no hurry to as its nice to still have content to work towards.

They are still very hard in no-CP campaigns.

CyberSkooma

I too, hate vMA, and refuse to farm it for the bow. Sort of my own little useless protest against having only one bow in the game that matters. (I'm comfortable with Master's, idc)

However, your post is obviously just you being salty because you can't beat it. I'll say this... For your first run, five hours to get to round seven isn't even bad time comparing to other people. There are people who've taken several weeks/months to get their first clear.

Take a break, head back once you have a clear head.

The_Brosteen

Have you tried learning to play?
I found that this did wonders for me and while I still don't find VMA that much fun, learning to play helped me get the weapons I need.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

If you can't complete VMA, your DPS is probably not high enough to notice a difference with VMA(back bar only) weapons.

As to your trinity argument, yes VMA does require knowledge of mechanics, and the ability to take care of yourself, but it doesnt require the same skill set as a tank or healer. Nothing needs taunting, and nothing is a one-shot that isnt a very obvious mechanic. In other words, you dont have mechanics that a traditional tank would hold aggro and block. Your shield will absorb any damage source in the arena that isnt specifically designed to be a one-shot, but again, those mechanics are all stage specific and dont require a damage sponge. They require following the mechanic. Your pet sorc with surge has more than enough heals for the entire arena. If pressing a button every 30 seconds for heals is too much, well don't know what to tell you.

Any time you are solo, you are going to be the focus of all enemies in the area and will be the only one worrying about your health bar. It is unavoidable if designing a solo instance unless they actually programmed NPCs as companions.

As to whether it's appropriate to lock end game DPS weapons behind solo content, well, I get the argument, but see my first point.

Merlin13KAGL

Pretty sure it felt damn near impossible to almost everyone when they first went in.

You take it a bite at a time and you will get better at it. Eventually you clear, and your scores will improve.

It's it's own little corner of the world with downsides and benefits.

And tbh, while the weapons are a bonus, I'd argue most clear it initially to have done so, for the challenge, and improved their gameplay as a result.

If you're good with mechanics and situationally aware, you can clear it.

gepe87

What? I just finished it using pets, HA and blockade.

AhPook_Is_Here

once you realize that we aren't in the real Tamriel and are just in another part of cheese-monger's hollow thousands of vestages running around farming gear from weird daedra makes sense.

Danksta

Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »

So most of what I'm seeing is a circle-something about how VMA is the "pinnacle of PVE content" and "the only difficult thing left in the game", and my favorite argument, "if you aren't good enough to complete it, you don't deserve that extra dps".

Perhaps, and please try to follow my reasoning here, perhaps players still want to progress, even if they can theoretically clear all content in the game? Sure my 25-30k can clear all content with the right group, but should I just be satisfied with that? Go play in the kiddie corner and dream about that VMA staff that I can't obtain because I didn't "git gud" enough? This isn't Dark Souls, it's an MMO. They're different games. Why am I playing Dark souls to perform better in group content? I've played Dark Souls, and I find it easier than VMA.

To reiterate my point from the initial post, why are some of the best weapons in this MMO locked behind solo content?Nobody has offered an adequate explanation for this, I just keep hearing excuses about how it's a "great test" and that I shouldn't be allowed to do veteran content without clearing it.

Is it really a great test? In other content, am I constantly running around like a chicken with my head cut off, using a heal or a shield on every third ability, and trying to figure out when to get in melee range and when to run away, while keeping in mind that certain mechanics are just oneshots if you don't run in to bash? But like, for the entire duration of the encounter? Does that sound like ANYONE'S role in a normal trial or dungeon? It is so incredibly stressful and hectic that I guarantee you, if PvE in general were like VMA, 98% of the max-level playerbase would just quit outright.

But I guess I shouldn't worry? I'll just memorize the spawns in a few hundred hours and that'll somehow make it less of a nightmare? That's only the length of a few normal games, seems totally reasonable. That's sarcasm by the way.

LOL vMA is the only difficult thing left in the game?? It's not even difficult. If you think it's difficult then pushing yourself to complete it will serve you well.

idk

Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »

? It is so incredibly stressful and hectic that I guarantee you, if PvE in general were like VMA, 98% of the max-level playerbase would just quit outright.

@Crafts_Many_Boxes

You are 100% correct. You make a great point and below I explain how.

ESO has tiered difficulty levels and vMA is near the top of difficulty. The idea is to offer challenges for the various interests in the game.

If you want a less challenging experience there is nMA.

What is odd is you make this follow up comment yet you ignore the posts where assistance for new players attempting vMA is provided.

That merely shows you are just raging and ranting instead of having a true interest in clearing vMA. You come off with a sense of entitlement.

Edit: if you are actually interested in clearly vMA go back to my previous post and view the links. It will take effort but much less effort than those who cleared it in the first year since we can now save progress and it is probably easier in general.

DschiPeunt

If you can’t do vMA, you don’t need vMA weapons.

Crafts_Many_Boxes

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

If you can't complete VMA, your DPS is probably not high enough to notice a difference with VMA(back bar only) weapons.

As to your trinity argument, yes VMA does require knowledge of mechanics, and the ability to take care of yourself, but it doesnt require the same skill set as a tank or healer. Nothing needs taunting, and nothing is a one-shot that isnt a very obvious mechanic. In other words, you dont have mechanics that a traditional tank would hold aggro and block. Your shield will absorb any damage source in the arena that isnt specifically designed to be a one-shot, but again, those mechanics are all stage specific and dont require a damage sponge. They require following the mechanic. Your pet sorc with surge has more than enough heals for the entire arena. If pressing a button every 30 seconds for heals is too much, well don't know what to tell you.

Any time you are solo, you are going to be the focus of all enemies in the area and will be the only one worrying about your health bar. It is unavoidable if designing a solo instance unless they actually programmed NPCs as companions.

As to whether it's appropriate to lock end game DPS weapons behind solo content, well, I get the argument, but see my first point.

You're not wrong, but I would still argue that it requires far more self healing / tanking elements / general responsibilities thrown at you at once than any one role in any encounter (at least any I've done, I haven't done the new trials on vet).

Also worth mentioning is that the guide I was following didn't include surge. Maybe it wasn't the best guide? It's a year old, but I didn't imagine much had changed. TBH I haven't played my sorc a whole lot outside of the non-pet dps meta build, so I didn't even know surge was a thing. I added it last night and did al'ikr to get it to the morph, so maybe that'll help make it so I'm not doing the twilight heal every 3 abilities. I'll be going back at it tonight, just to see if it makes a difference.

My statement about the content being solo to get some of the best group gear remains though. And they totally could add NPC tanks / healers in, and mix and match depending on which role you have selected in group finder. Plenty of other games have created encounters like that, though I can't recall any in ESO offhand.

leepalmer95

VMA is likely one of the reasons the pve turned to boring and easy.

They bring out challenging solo content, most casuals and people who don't want to put in effort can't complete it. They try for 3-4 hours then give up because its 'too hard;.


They cry enough that zos nerf vma a couple of time in between patches.

Zos figure having a piece of dlc that casuals can't complete with there 30k hp dps that heavy attack everything and stand in aoe#'s is bad business.

So future content, current content and open world is made so simple a 7yr old can run though.

Loot that was locked behind the harder difficulties is now basically given away in normal modes.

Gear power and overall power creep made all the old 'hard' content able to be completed by anyone really.

Vapirko

Being all three roles is what makes it fun imo. It’s nice that there’s something for everyone. Hoping murkmire gives us a two man arena with the ability to try it with a combo of roles: 2 dps, tanka an dps, healer and dps. True that the weapons are near trash now aside from the bow and maybe some of the staves. That’s just ZOS fault for taking away the damage bonuses and nerfing the way they work.

Kelces

ReachHalo wrote: »

OP it doesn't make sense because you haven't completed it yet. When you do and you dive straight back into it you will realise what everyone who has completed it says... it's not that hard, and its mostly just mechanics and learning them.

So read all of the responses about where people have struggled... almost everyone has and will in their first try. And you are obviously no different. Read a guide, watch a clip and keep trying.

VMa is a beautiful thing that separates the men from the boys, so to speak, and aside from the rng, makes complete sense. Unfortunately, bitching about not getting it, and how it doesn't make sense, in the forums is just plain salty.

So playing a GAME, not with a team by the way, but alone defines a man?

Interesting...

eso_nya

Imo vma is the 'gatekeeper' instance for "hard" content in eso.

If u enjoy whiping on the same encounters for weeks ... "practicing" the same fight dayin and dayout, to call it progress when u finally got it to 80% ... than after u finally beat it, the farming starts ... u get that training bow of healerset again and again and again over month ... alas, finally u got the great price, but there be patchnotes "tis weapon will be useless next month" ... shuldda kept the stuff u deconned so many times, now u cant haz it anymore.

If thats your definition of fun, go for it. If it isnt, this is a videogame, its ment to be fun and relaxing, u should never grind content u hate. Its a serious waste of your precious lifetime, if u spend it not having fun.

And yes, i did beat vma. Once in 2016 and i wont go there ever again.

Donnasnowheart_ESO

VMA honestly teaches ppl how to play better, my only issue with it is the random loot drops.

Kelces

Donnasnowheart_ESO wrote: »

VMA honestly teaches ppl how to play better, my only issue with it is the random loot drops.

You can say that about PvP too, if one is honest. Quite some challenges there, provided you know that part of the game...

code65536

@leepalmer95 You are so off track...

leepalmer95 wrote: »

They cry enough that zos nerf vma a couple of time in between patches.

vMA has received exactly one nerf in its entire history. The health of the elite centurion mobs on stage 2 were reduced (the centurion bosses were not touched). It's a minor and rather inexplicable nerf. vMA has never been nerfed in any significant way in its entire history.

leepalmer95 wrote: »

So future content, current content and open world is made so simple a 7yr old can run though.

I'd like to see a 7yo run through vCR +3. Or Fang Lair HM. Or March of Sacrifices HM. Your claim that content design is easier tells me that you haven't actually tried the hardmodes of new vet content.

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Loot that was locked behind the harder difficulties is now basically given away in normal modes.

I'm pretty sure that Perfected items are still locked away and inaccessible in normal modes. And making regular versions of those sets accessible to everyone of every skill level is good for the health and balance of the game.

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Gear power and overall power creep made all the old 'hard' content able to be completed by anyone really.

This is the one point that I'll agree with--that ZOS could do a better job of keeping the power creep in check. But this is a relatively minor problem, as long as new content is designed with current power levels in mind. And this is definitely the case for vet HM content. I don't see it as that much of an issue that content that I cleared two years ago is easier today because I'm more powerful.

CatchMeTrolling

And here you have pve players not being toxic like they say they aren’t.

Kuramas9tails

kylewwefan wrote: »

Dude. You spent like a day in there. I was stuck on the last boss for a year. That’s right. A year. I spent 45 minutes a day trying to finish it off. For months and then gave up on it. Then I went back. I should have deleted the quest and started fresh. It would have probably made me a better player faster.

I’ve no idea why everyone claims PetSorc is so easy to farm VMA. In my experiences, Stamina Nightblade then Stamina Templar rule. I’m just not that great at magic toons.

I just recently beat it on my MagBlade with 18.5k DPS and Mag Warden with 22K DPS.

All I’m saying is you got to find something that works for you, and there’s a lot more to this game than beating on a dummy trying to get more damage. You got to learn how to play. VMA will teach you how to play.

@kylewwefan The reason MagSorc is considered easy is because it's very first-timer friendly. The rotation is easier to get down, the shields are amazing, you have an instant heal from the Twilight plus you have two pets who can get adds on them and not on you. The Scamp alone can do 30% of your damage total or more. Now I am talking about two pets, not one as some run it.

I can't run it on stamina characters. I work well on my Mageblade. Mageblade is my life.