VMA Makes no Sense, and Here's Why

Kelces

It is interesting to read of experience you get from this arena, while in the light of this, the rest seems totally useless in terms of practical experience for things to come. You can take away many lessions from many places. PvP for example, as I mentioned before, makes an excellent preparation for break-free and usage of synergies just to name some obious things...

Then there would be the thing that seems to lie at the base of this topic, namely the gear you get: As @mattaeus01b16_ESO mentioned, many get frustrated by it, not primarely that they can't finish it, but that it is required collectively. A decree, that someone, some day put into the world and from that day on apparently has to be followed.

Has anyone ever proven, that it is totally impossible to complete a trial without such weapons? Has anyone even tried?

Runefang

I wouldn't overstate VMA as a learning tool. I've quite a few Flawless Conqueror's in my time who were abjectly terrible at trials.

jcm2606

Kelces wrote: »

It is interesting to read of experience you get from this arena, while in the light of this, the rest seems totally useless in terms of practical experience for things to come. You can take away many lessions from many places. PvP for example, as I mentioned before, makes an excellent preparation for break-free and usage of synergies just to name some obious things...

Then there would be the thing that seems to lie at the base of this topic, namely the gear you get: As @mattaeus01b16_ESO mentioned, many get frustrated by it, not primarely that they can't finish it, but that it is required collectively. A decree, that someone, some day put into the world and from that day on apparently has to be followed.

Has anyone ever proven, that it is totally impossible to complete a trial without such weapons? Has anyone even tried?

As I explained in another comment, vMA weapons only add 2-5k DPS. If you're only doing 30k DPS, equipping a vMA weapon is not going to give you the 20k+ DPS you're missing. You'll maybe go from 30k to 32-33k, maybe 35k, but that's it. And with the staff, that's assuming you are weaving adequately, as the staff really buffs your weaves.

The vast majority of the content in the game can be done with 30k DPS. Even vet Craglorn trials I'm sure can be done with 25-30k DPS. Higher is more preferred of course, but it is doable with 25-30k DPS. So unless you are going after the vet DLC trial progression clears, vMA weapons are absolutely not required.

webrgesner

it took me 4 months to finally beat the final boss. I used a magsorc. Now i can complete it on my stamblade. i still struggle sometime. But it takes time and you HAVE to be really good to beat it. Meaning you have to know when to blobk, dodge roll, heal, play defense, and play offence. Also have a good memory where adds spawn and set up your own strategy. The vMA weapons are the strongest PVE weapons there are. You have to be worthy to wield it. If you cant beat vMA you are only worthy of using a Ruby Ash Weapon

Jeremy

Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »

So, with the Orsinium event in full swing, I thought I'd take another stab at actually completing VMA. 680 Magsorc, running a pet build because that seems the best suited for it. After a grueling 5 hours getting to the round 7 boss, I gave up. Here are my thoughts on VMA, and why it makes no sense from a design standpoint.

VMA is a solo trial. That's cool, I guess. Certainly different. But there aren't NPC tanks or NPC healers, you need to essentially do all 3 roles yourself. Okay...that's certainly different. But still cool, right? ....Right?

I guess the main disconnect, for me, is that your reward for completing this "look mom, I can be all 3 roles at once!" lesson in masochism is a weapon that is BiS or nearly BiS....for PvE. In case it needs to be said here, PvE in this game is, in every other instance team based. So what we've got here is arguably the best weapons in the game, for this team-based game.....locked behind a solo trial, in which you need to act unlike you do in the other 99% of all content.

Sure, other MMOs have solo instances / trials / etc like VMA, but you know what they're smart enough not to do? Gate the best equipment behind these solo events. The reason the trinity is such a popular concept in MMOs is because people like to specialize. This is literally seen in all corners of the real world, where specialization has launched us into the modern era. Most people don't hunt or grow their own food anymore, nor do they make their own clothes or tools. This is because we found specialization to be far more efficient. The trinity of tank, dps, and heals reflects this principle nicely. I'd argue support should be added, but that's not really part of this argument.

And sure, VMA is hard. You need to be skilled to complete VMA, of that there is no doubt. But the whole point of group content is so that you don't need to be this "jack of all trades" that VMA forces you to be. The very idea of VMA is in direct opposition to the entire endgame. So why is some of the best gear found there? That's like winning top-of-the-line football cleats....for winning a bowling tournament. Sure, it's an achievement, but why not get a bowling trophy?

What I'm trying to say is that VMA should award bragging rights, and nothing else. Maybe some skins, maybe a cool daedric mount or some other cosmetic. Not gear, and certainly not gear that helps you maximize your dps in group content.

And to anyone who's about to retort with "your'e just salty you can't complete it", yeah I'm salty. I'm salty that I'm forced to do this nonsensical, unrelated content to push my dps in the content I actually enjoy and excel at. I do 25-30k dps with most of my toons, I can heal vet dungeons, and I can even tank. I just can't do all 3, my brain doesn't work that way. I wanted to throw my computer out the window so many times today, it just isn't fun. I'm arguing that I shouldn't be punished for that, nobody should.

I agree with you in most respects. VMA is pure unadulterated torture.

DPS classes are going to have the easiest time with the transition because most of its crap design revolves around DPS races with trial and error gimmicks. I remember back when I bought Orsinium; it was mostly for Veteran Malestrom Arena because I wanted the healing staff. After a couple of days of hell I was wanting a refund. Luckily I learned to spare myself the agony and went on to enjoy the story (which was quite good) and the world bosses in that zone can be a fun fight as well. So that DLC does have some good content. But I agree with you where it comes to VMA. It's garbage game design - 100% frustration and 0% fun.

My advice - just don't do it. Maybe if enough people boycotted that crap they would change it to be more fun for those of us who are not into masochism.

SiegeMerchant

Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »

running a pet build because that seems the best suited for it.

who told you that lie? xD

Jeremy

Valera Progib wrote: »

Well you are talking about being “jack of all trades”... let me tell you buddy, yesterday I spent 35 minutes on my stamwarden trying to solo veteran tempest island last boss with 3 x 750cp guys that were dying in 45 seconds in to the fight...

I can tell you one thing, if all of them completed vMA - we would never have this problem.

vMA teaches you to play the game and learn how to get most out of your class.

Any healer or tank who tries a VMA strategy on this game's other notable PvE content is going to fail, and fail badly

As far as Templest Island - it was probably the stupid bouncing wind crap that was killing your group. It helps to fight the boss at the doorway so you can avoid that. I seriously doubt it had anything to do with them not having cleared VMA.

Maryal

VMA is ESO's version of Dark Souls.
It's maddening, it's frustrating, it's .... it's .... aaaahhh!

But, the more you keep at it, it gets incrementally less difficult.
Memorization of the order in which mobs spawn and where they spawn seems impossible at first, but keep at it ... here raw determination will see you through (although I've heard tell of people who actually enjoy throwing their keyboard down or smashing their forehead into it and look for any reason to do this ... for them Vma is the best place to be)

And, when you finally beat it, you get the most wonderful 'top of the world' feeling ...

NyassaV

vMA has problems but you listed none of them

And if you're a pet sorc I have to say git gud. Just keep practicing.

Kelces

Kelces wrote: »

It is interesting to read of experience you get from this aren, while in the light of this the rest seems totally useless in terms of practical experience for things to come. You can take away many lessions from many places. PvP for example, as I mentioned before, makes an excellent preparation for break-free and usage of synergies just to name some obious things...

Then ther would be the thing that seems to lie at the base of this topic, namely the gear you get: As @mattaeus01b16_ESO mentioned, many get frustrated by it, not primarely that they can't finish it, but that it is required collectively. A decree, that someone, some day put into the world and from that day on apparently has to be followed.

Has anyone ever proven, that it is totally impossible to complete a trial without such weapons?

jcm2606 wrote: »

Kelces wrote: »

It is interesting to read of experience you get from this arena, while in the light of this, the rest seems totally useless in terms of practical experience for things to come. You can take away many lessions from many places. PvP for example, as I mentioned before, makes an excellent preparation for break-free and usage of synergies just to name some obious things...

Then there would be the thing that seems to lie at the base of this topic, namely the gear you get: As @mattaeus01b16_ESO mentioned, many get frustrated by it, not primarely that they can't finish it, but that it is required collectively. A decree, that someone, some day put into the world and from that day on apparently has to be followed.

Has anyone ever proven, that it is totally impossible to complete a trial without such weapons? Has anyone even tried?

As I explained in another comment, vMA weapons only add 2-5k DPS. If you're only doing 30k DPS, equipping a vMA weapon is not going to give you the 20k+ DPS you're missing. You'll maybe go from 30k to 32-33k, maybe 35k, but that's it. And with the staff, that's assuming you are weaving adequately, as the staff really buffs your weaves.

The vast majority of the content in the game can be done with 30k DPS. Even vet Craglorn trials I'm sure can be done with 25-30k DPS. Higher is more preferred of course, but it is doable with 25-30k DPS. So unless you are going after the vet DLC trial progression clears, vMA weapons are absolutely not required.

Nice to have some moderat position on tis too. But most still are of another opinion...

ItsNebula

vMA is a joke. Just about everyone thats 500+ CP can do it in a hour or less. Idk how people still struggle with vMA.
PvE in ESO in general is a joke because of how much DPS you can do these days and how tanky you can be solo, WHILE being a DPS.

vMA if anything needs to be a LOT harder.. especially since its considered "End Game" content....
Only hard things in ESO now is vMoL HM, vAS+2, vCR+1-3 ... all Crag trials + HM are a Joke. vMoL is a joke.. vHoF is a joke AND its HM is a joke... hell, as long as all DPS are doing a good 45k+ DPS in trials raid buffed vHoF HM can be done without a sweat....

This games a joke when it comes to PvE "End Game"

ItsNebula

jcmlongb16_ESO wrote: »

I think VMA is just right, it's one of the last bits of `hard content` left in the game. The general dumbing down of the game has spoiled so much and reduces the sense of achievement for for players. Take IC for example, the district bosses in there used to be a real challenge where you would need a decent group to bring them down, now you can solo them.

OP: You are not being "punished", would you say you were being punish for not being able to drive a car if you failed your driving test? At CP680 you still have a tonne of the game to experience, just enjoy it, i'm CP1057 and still haven't finished it on vet and i'm in no hurry to as its nice to still have content to work towards.

Its not even hard.. if people are getting 600k+ scores in vMA now constantly, its not hard at all.

Hell, your average joe can do vMA in less than a hour with little to no complications.

boombazookajd

ItsNebula wrote: »

jcmlongb16_ESO wrote: »

I think VMA is just right, it's one of the last bits of `hard content` left in the game. The general dumbing down of the game has spoiled so much and reduces the sense of achievement for for players. Take IC for example, the district bosses in there used to be a real challenge where you would need a decent group to bring them down, now you can solo them.

OP: You are not being "punished", would you say you were being punish for not being able to drive a car if you failed your driving test? At CP680 you still have a tonne of the game to experience, just enjoy it, i'm CP1057 and still haven't finished it on vet and i'm in no hurry to as its nice to still have content to work towards.

Its not even hard.. if people are getting 600k+ scores in vMA now constantly, its not hard at all.

Hell, your average joe can do vMA in less than a hour with little to no complications.

Hi. Average Joe here. No they can't. Seriously, folks like you *** me off to no end. vMA isn't easy and will never be easy. Sure, you get better at it the more you practice, just like anything else.

Mintaka5

Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »

yeah I'm salty. I'm salty that I'm forced to do this nonsensical, unrelated content to push my dps in the content I actually enjoy and excel at. I do 25-30k dps with most of my toons, I can heal vet dungeons, and I can even tank. I just can't do all 3, my brain doesn't work that way. I wanted to throw my computer out the window so many times today, it just isn't fun. I'm arguing that I shouldn't be punished for that, nobody should.

This! I did up to the 4th stage/round/whatever it's called vet (magsorc pet build as well), and quit with a great amount of frustration. I practiced in normal for months, only to find this huge skill gap between normal and vet. Nothing prepares me for vet content. I even thought maybe if I tried using the gear that drops between rounds, that that would offer me some progressive advantage, but nope. I am not returning to it.

LiquidPony

Here's the thing ... Maelstrom weapons are primarily useful for PvE DPS. The Resto is decent but not necessary and the tanking weapons are booty. The 2H isn't any good in PvP anymore.

And Maelstrom is a great training ground for PvE DPS. No one can carry you. You have to actually learn all of the mechanics through trial and error and your own observations. You can't sit in damage and rely on your healer to bail you out.

I wouldn't trust anyone who can't blow through Maelstrom as a DPS in a raid group.

And to be honest, if you don't want your Maelstrom weapons bad enough to put in the time to get them, then you probably don't really need them.

However, even with Transmutation, I still think there should be some way to short-circuit the grind. Choose your weapon for a leaderboard reward, for instance.

kylewwefan

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/411984/kyle-s-stamina-maelstrom-builds-for-beginners#latest

Screw the pet build easy nonsense. Check this out. Ok. No more drunk posting on the pot from me.

Raraaku

I would just say to hang in there and keep trying, the Round 7 boss can be difficult in terms that a mushroom is sitting right under the second mage or while kiting you accidentally hit the shrooms at the worst possible time. I've died at least 200+ times and I just got to the last arena and to Round 3. I highly suggest Joy's vMA guide, it has so much great content and tips within it.

Also, I think there is a disconnect when viewing video guides of vMA by popular content creators who breeze through it with no deaths and a 500k+ score. Sure they try to explain the mechanics, but honestly they've run it so many times and have memorized the spawn locations and mechanics to the point where they can run glass cannon builds so that they can burn before the mechanics become a problem.

Best advice I can give is to learn to walkaway. Even on the last boss of an arena that's giving me problems I've had to logout and take a nice break and then return to do something else for a while before I went back in. vMA is one of the hardest content in the game because it is a solo trial; and if your not used to being a DPS and having all the monsters in a veteran dungeon/trial coming at you... It's gonna be an adjustment.

I believe in you, keep at it, you'll eventually break through. And when you do... hopefully you'll get a Bow or Destruction Staff on your first run

ccfeeling

VMA is not really hard , all you need is practices .

VMA with high ping is another story , 300 plus + lag spike HM is on lol

Wolfkeks

ccfeeling wrote: »

VMA with high ping is another story , 300 plus + lag spike HM is on lol

Lol def HM The high ping always beats me in vMA

Mr_Walker

boombazookajd wrote: »

ItsNebula wrote: »

jcmlongb16_ESO wrote: »

I think VMA is just right, it's one of the last bits of `hard content` left in the game. The general dumbing down of the game has spoiled so much and reduces the sense of achievement for for players. Take IC for example, the district bosses in there used to be a real challenge where you would need a decent group to bring them down, now you can solo them.

OP: You are not being "punished", would you say you were being punish for not being able to drive a car if you failed your driving test? At CP680 you still have a tonne of the game to experience, just enjoy it, i'm CP1057 and still haven't finished it on vet and i'm in no hurry to as its nice to still have content to work towards.

Its not even hard.. if people are getting 600k+ scores in vMA now constantly, its not hard at all.

Hell, your average joe can do vMA in less than a hour with little to no complications.

Hi. Average Joe here. No they can't. Seriously, folks like you *** me off to no end. vMA isn't easy and will never be easy. Sure, you get better at it the more you practice, just like anything else.

You must be new to gaming forums. Everyone has 43/1 KDR (at a minimum), and can solo every piece of content on an hour old toon, naked with an iron sword, whilst blindfolded and having their appenidix removed.

Nebthet78

ccfeeling wrote: »

VMA is not really hard , all you need is practices .

VMA with high ping is another story , 300 plus + lag spike HM is on lol

THIS is a HUGE part of the problem with VMA.. The LAG spikes!!!! I was beating my head at round 5 when I got there, until I decided to switch out my armour and skills to beat the lag and not the enemies. Basically, I had to situate things to give myself quick distance from enemies when the lag spikes hit while also doing at least AOE damage to kill them... This stage is not a DPS race, it's DPS pacing.

Howver on the final round Final Boss, I've been finding for some odd reason I'm not seeing tells so I know when to block and that god damn Deadroth follows me as I try to get away from him when he deady his heavy fire breath. With the amount of damage that damn thing does, he should be melting his own face off running through that fire!!

Frankly, even with my frustration, and doing this despite my own disabilities that greatly handicap my dps, I find that for the most part is fine in terms of difficulty, but minor tweaks to compensate for the ever present LAG and RNG are needed. Example: That damn Daedroth (Crematoriam Guard or whatever) should not move when his big AOE fire breath is doing off.

And one strange thing I came across while I was learning that stage.. I blocked on the one skull shooting face the boss does, and I'm a stam sorc, so no skills to reflect anything back at an enemy.. and I found his skulls would reflect right back at him if I positioned myself correctly, but they wouldn't do any damage to him. It would be nice if they added in a mechanic where, if you reflected his attack and it hit him, it would do some damage and stun him, thus ending that attack like an interrupt.

Eventually I'll get this done..... but it's more lkely I'll end up quitting the game before then. Doing content that overly stresses me out to get something that others are requiring me to get to continue to do the things I like to do is not what I call fun.

Ramber

You don't need to memorize anything to clear vma, just keep moving and keep your eyes open. It was said earlier you need to know your build and that's pretty much it. You need to clear ads fast and use the shield and damage sigils as u like they can really help. I even use different helm sets at times for more damage or for more regen depending on the boss i'm on.

Crafts_Many_Boxes,TRY to use necro/Spinners armor and 2 heavy pieces of iceheart monster set (it will save your life and do damage) and a simple heavy attack build using wall of elements, liquid lighting on back bar with a flame staff/weap damage enchant, light attack, swap hit pet and heavy attack with lightning staff/shock enchant... and watch em melt!!! for final boss use a shield if you need it, you don't really need one before, however most youtubers do for the whole thing lol.

I have completed vMA on 7 different toons, all classes and that sorc heavy attack build is the easiest.

Crafts_Many_Boxes

Well, I did it. I'd estimate it was about 12 hours total starting from Sunday.

I beat 7 shortly after I wrote this, 8 I think I beat in 3 tries, and then 9 I got to the boss after 20 minutes...then spun out completely. I'd say I spent another 5 hours just trying to beat that boss. The crematorial guards were the worst, once I figured them out it got better. I use "figure out" loosely, because really it was just a matter of stacking more health and using more ground aoe and trying to shield through it.

My final setup:

Shield, blockade, liquid lightning, matriarch, scamp, destro ulti on bar 1

LA shield, surge, liquid lightning, matriarch, scamp, destro ulti on bar 2

95% on the first bar, dropping AoE and heavy attacking. Trying to remember to keep surge up while doing everything else sucked, i had maybe 40% uptime but I guess it helped.

My gear I tweaked throughout my maddening, 5 hour war of attrition against this boss.

My final setup was: 5 pcs necro, 5 pcs mother's sorrow, 2 pc grothdar for extra aoe to help with crematorium guards, etc.

I also changed food from witchmother's to salmon milet soup. Sustain got difficult at times with 2 aoes and no regen (even with heavy attacks), but I made 150 tri-stat pots so it's whatever. That 2k health makes more of a difference than I would have imagined.

All in all, I just kept making changes until something worked. I altered my entire build and CP points to be heavy-attack centric then changed most of my gear to boot. I'm now totally VMA optimized, guess I'll try and beat it a few more times before sunday, then never touch this nightmare again. Sigh.

Going back to why I created this thread though, I think my point stands about this trial not really being an accurate representation of endgame for a particular role. People are saying this is actually easier than VCR or VAS from a dps perspective. I can't even imagine that, to be frank. I've only done the older trials on vet, as well as most of the dlc dungeons. I dunno, maybe I just suck at multi-tasking in the end, and that's what VMA is; trying to do 4-5 things at once and not die in the process. I don't really find it fun and I'd rather be with group-mates facing in regular ol' trial or dungeon, but most builds still demand this VMA-only gear so I guess I'll keep at it.

ResTandRespeC

Enslaved wrote: »

well stage 7 is rng afaik
Sometimes you get these shrroms explode under your anti yell dome and than you can pretty much cry.

There is a tiny amount rng but in most cases you can avoid it happening if you no what your doing and on any mag class you can shield long enough for the yelling to stop and to run to the cleanse pool.

ResTandRespeC

SilverWF wrote: »

Like how teens just can't look further than their own nose.

What if one have tank or healer only on his account? He is geared well and able to literally carry most hardest group content on his role.
What he would do in the vMA?
Right - nothing.

Luckily there is nothing in vma for a tank
The sword and board are absolute trash.

ResTandRespeC

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

hamsterontherocksb16_ESO wrote: »

To put it simple:
You only need BiS if you want to do endgame (vet trial an above). If you want to do vet trials you should be able to complete vMA. If you can´t even beat vMA you will not pull your weight in vet trials.

I don't necessarily agree with this.

Will vMA improve your skills and make you a better player? Yes.

Will not having completed vMA automatically make a you a liability in vet trials? Not so much, especially since the builds and methods are completely different for both sets of content.

The builds are about the same. If I'm trying to optimize my run, sure I'll switch my cp and a couple skills to get more burst damage, but if im just going in for a weekly score i run the exact same set up I run in vmol/ vcr / vas/ etc.

ResTandRespeC

Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »

So most of what I'm seeing is a circle-something about how VMA is the "pinnacle of PVE content" and "the only difficult thing left in the game", and my favorite argument, "if you aren't good enough to complete it, you don't deserve that extra dps".

Perhaps, and please try to follow my reasoning here, perhaps players still want to progress, even if they can theoretically clear all content in the game? Sure my 25-30k can clear all content with the right group, but should I just be satisfied with that? Go play in the kiddie corner and dream about that VMA staff that I can't obtain because I didn't "git gud" enough? This isn't Dark Souls, it's an MMO. They're different games. Why am I playing Dark souls to perform better in group content? I've played Dark Souls, and I find it easier than VMA.

To reiterate my point from the initial post, why are some of the best weapons in this MMO locked behind solo content?Nobody has offered an adequate explanation for this, I just keep hearing excuses about how it's a "great test" and that I shouldn't be allowed to do veteran content without clearing it.

Is it really a great test? In other content, am I constantly running around like a chicken with my head cut off, using a heal or a shield on every third ability, and trying to figure out when to get in melee range and when to run away, while keeping in mind that certain mechanics are just oneshots if you don't run in to bash? But like, for the entire duration of the encounter? Does that sound like ANYONE'S role in a normal trial or dungeon? It is so incredibly stressful and hectic that I guarantee you, if PvE in general were like VMA, 98% of the max-level playerbase would just quit outright.

But I guess I shouldn't worry? I'll just memorize the spawns in a few hundred hours and that'll somehow make it less of a nightmare? That's only the length of a few normal games, seems totally reasonable. That's sarcasm by the way.

Most endgame pve IS just like vma. Both the newest trials (vcr/vas) require a incredible amount of situational awareness, self heals, and self sustain. In vcr you go to the shadow realm and take oblivion damage and have no healer. There's even crystals that have to be broken down by a time limit AND an explosion that has to avoided. It's almost identical to upstairs phase of the last boss in vma lol.

ResTandRespeC

Ragebull wrote: »

I gave up on VMA about 3-4 months ago. Got stuck on the last boss and never went back, still have the quest in my journal lol. I’m not doing a research project and changing up my stamblade for this one thing when I’m good enough as is for literally everything else

And the only reason they hide awesome stuff behind VMA is because hardly anyone would do it without the weapon rewards. I haven’t met anyone who actually enjoys it, they only enjoy when it’s over

I love the place and have multiple weapons so i don't do it for the rewards . Just got flawless on my snb last night. A pain in arse compared to mag, but possible.

ResTandRespeC

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

vMA is a patients game. vMA is very difficult if you are not that experienced with content like that. However, it is doable, you just need patience and maybe guidance and you will be able to do it. Originally, when Maelstrom came out, it used to be more than twice as difficult as it currently is. But due to Champion Points and overall damage increase we received it got tremendously easier.

I do have a lot of Maelstrom content on my website and youtube if you want to take a look.
Maelstrom Beginner Guides: https://alcasthq.com/eso-maelstrom-arena-introduction-pve/
Gameplay, full runs etc: https://alcasthq.com/maelstrom-arena-gameplay/

Nobody's arguing the difficulty. The OP is arguing whether or not that reward should be gated behind solo content as a status symbol, and it shouldn't. The fact that he put that last bit in the OP is because people were going to say it reguardless of his point, it's an easy way to devalue people who critisize the game or the difficult content in any capacity. It never should have been. Gear should have been restricted to team based activies, and VMA was made before the designers realized, that if they did this, instead of making the incentive cosmetics, they suddenly created an extremely elitist culture at endgame that suddenly made less people -want- to get that far.

There's a reason that new trials only have skins and cosmetics, as rewards, and that everything else can be farmed in normal. VMA is the last remnant of a failed design philosophy. And the only reason it hasn't been changed is because for some reason people keep lawding it as some beautifully designed content.

@Crafts_Many_Boxes I've been saying it for years. But no one is going to lisen to you. "Git gud" is an easy way to protect the 'difficult' content which is in vogue right now by denying there's anything wrong with it, and as far as this community is concerned, if you cannot self improve, you are not worth the air you breathe. I suggest you put your time into better games. Because this one is too mired trying to be everquest lite.

They added perfected gear to hard mode trials . Its even worse.

Crafts_Many_Boxes

ResTandRespeC wrote: »

Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »

So most of what I'm seeing is a circle-something about how VMA is the "pinnacle of PVE content" and "the only difficult thing left in the game", and my favorite argument, "if you aren't good enough to complete it, you don't deserve that extra dps".

Perhaps, and please try to follow my reasoning here, perhaps players still want to progress, even if they can theoretically clear all content in the game? Sure my 25-30k can clear all content with the right group, but should I just be satisfied with that? Go play in the kiddie corner and dream about that VMA staff that I can't obtain because I didn't "git gud" enough? This isn't Dark Souls, it's an MMO. They're different games. Why am I playing Dark souls to perform better in group content? I've played Dark Souls, and I find it easier than VMA.

To reiterate my point from the initial post, why are some of the best weapons in this MMO locked behind solo content?Nobody has offered an adequate explanation for this, I just keep hearing excuses about how it's a "great test" and that I shouldn't be allowed to do veteran content without clearing it.

Is it really a great test? In other content, am I constantly running around like a chicken with my head cut off, using a heal or a shield on every third ability, and trying to figure out when to get in melee range and when to run away, while keeping in mind that certain mechanics are just oneshots if you don't run in to bash? But like, for the entire duration of the encounter? Does that sound like ANYONE'S role in a normal trial or dungeon? It is so incredibly stressful and hectic that I guarantee you, if PvE in general were like VMA, 98% of the max-level playerbase would just quit outright.

But I guess I shouldn't worry? I'll just memorize the spawns in a few hundred hours and that'll somehow make it less of a nightmare? That's only the length of a few normal games, seems totally reasonable. That's sarcasm by the way.

Most endgame pve IS just like vma. Both the newest trials (vcr/vas) require a incredible amount of situational awareness, self heals, and self sustain. In vcr you go to the shadow realm and take oblivion damage and have no healer. There's even crystals that have to be broken down by a time limit AND an explosion that has to avoided. It's almost identical to upstairs phase of the last boss in vma lol.

I mean, i've done the shadow realm part of CR on normal +3. It's not THAT bad. Most groups take a tank or healer down there anyway, so you aren't taking much damage and it's still much less to worry about than most parts of VMA IMO. I wouldn't compare it to the crystal phase of boss 9, at least for normal CR.

I'd say that the crematorial guards and that crystal phase were my biggest issues overall. Being able to get knocked off the platform so easily and getting stunlocked to death with no stamina to break out were the most frustrating aspects of the encounter. I'd get knocked down and have 2 or 3 aoes land on me then it was insta-dead.