VMA Makes no Sense, and Here's Why

resdayn00

vMA is a challenge that gives you useful loot. It measures how adaptive you are, which is an invaluable skill in both PvE and PvP. Once you master vMA you’ll see how much better you’ve become in group content. No death runs will be easier, your overall survivability will be much better and you’ll notice mechanics/critical points more easily. It’s worth it imo. And again, the loot (especially destro staff) is a great asset.

huschdeguddzje

You need to do all 3 things? What? I did vma on my magdk only difference between my group setup and vma was eledrain instead of magelight and molten armaments instead of flames of oblivion.
If you don't like it, tough look buddy, it's the same thing people complaining about animation canceling.
Adapt or stop playing.

sudaki_eso

If it took you grueling 5 hours getting to round 7 you are not ready for it - especially if you are playing a pet sorc
You dont need much more dps if you can pull 25k to complete it, its like others have mentioned, memorize the mechanics and you will get through the content.
Btw, the vma weapons add a nice amount of dps but are not necessary for end game content, you can do decent dps without them and you can do 99% of the content in this game not using them - it helps but dont sweat it if you dont have them. Practice your rotation and you should be able to add another 10k to your dps without the vma weapons...

SilverWF

Like how teens just can't look further than their own nose.

What if one have tank or healer only on his account? He is geared well and able to literally carry most hardest group content on his role.
What he would do in the vMA?
Right - nothing.

jaschacasadiob16_ESO

ReachHalo wrote: »

VMa is a beautiful thing that separates the men from the boys, so to speak, and aside from the rng, makes complete sense. Unfortunately, bitching about not getting it, and how it doesn't make sense, in the forums is just plain salty.

It does separate i_have_a_lot_of_free_time from i_have_a_job_and_life. So yea it separates kids and men, but the other way around.

Enslaved

SilverWF wrote: »

Like how teens just can't look further than their own nose.

What if one have tank or healer only on his account? He is geared well and able to literally carry most hardest group content on his role.
What he would do in the vMA?
Right - nothing.

This is true, but on the other hand, what would one that has tank or healer only even seek in DD content with DD rewards such is vMA? No reward from this arena is nearly as good as other stuff such tank/healer would want anyways.

BNOC

OP said

Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »

After a grueling 5 hours getting to the round 7 boss

I spent more than 5 hours on the second boss when this arena came out - Put in more work.

Let's not forget this was designed around a 300CP cap (You're over double), without today's stronger gear and so on, you've got no excuses.

Alcast

vMA is a patients game. vMA is very difficult if you are not that experienced with content like that. However, it is doable, you just need patience and maybe guidance and you will be able to do it. Originally, when Maelstrom came out, it used to be more than twice as difficult as it currently is. But due to Champion Points and overall damage increase we received it got tremendously easier.

I do have a lot of Maelstrom content on my website and youtube if you want to take a look.
Maelstrom Beginner Guides: https://alcasthq.com/eso-maelstrom-arena-introduction-pve/
Gameplay, full runs etc: https://alcasthq.com/maelstrom-arena-gameplay/

OGLezard

Enslaved wrote: »

well stage 7 is rng afaik
Sometimes you get these shrroms explode under your anti yell dome and than you can pretty much cry.

Interrupt boss then..... and run for your life.

Or

Kill the mob summoning them with range....

Undefwun

mag Sorc, 2 pets, no bar swapping, in 1 hour with 1 death.
good calm explanation of every fight

https://youtu.be/cafavdcH7po

SilverWF

Enslaved wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

Like how teens just can't look further than their own nose.

What if one have tank or healer only on his account? He is geared well and able to literally carry most hardest group content on his role.
What he would do in the vMA?
Right - nothing.

This is true, but on the other hand, what would one that has tank or healer only even seek in DD content with DD rewards such is vMA? No reward from this arena is nearly as good as other stuff such tank/healer would want anyways.

Sounds like a plan on adding solo hard trials for tanks and healers with specific role rewards inside, right?

Merlin13KAGL

Enslaved wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

Like how teens just can't look further than their own nose.

What if one have tank or healer only on his account? He is geared well and able to literally carry most hardest group content on his role.
What he would do in the vMA?
Right - nothing.

This is true, but on the other hand, what would one that has tank or healer only even seek in DD content with DD rewards such is vMA? No reward from this arena is nearly as good as other stuff such tank/healer would want anyways.

@Enslaved The Restro staff and S&B are not without merit.

They just aren't BiS, and you likely will obtaining them on a DPS alt, vs the healer or tank that ultimate ends up using them.

With the way gear is shuffled about, it makes it not that much different than any other content in that regard.

Ragged_Claw

Undefwun wrote: »

mag Sorc, 2 pets, no bar swapping, in 1 hour with 1 death.
good calm explanation of every fight

https://youtu.be/cafavdcH7po

Thanks for the link, I will watch it later. I've been trying with my pet sorc over several months (I take loooong breaks), but though everyone says 'oh it's easy on a sorc', I'm not finding that I've spent all weekend trying to do the boss on the rink of frozen blood, I know what I need to do, and keep getting to the final wave, but then I panic lol. I'm thinking not having to bar swap would be a godsend, because sometimes lag and sometimes I just mash all the buttons at once in my panic.

I'm at the point now where I'm not that bothered about the weapons, I've done plenty of vet trials without them, but I just want to finish the damn thing (and I want the polymorph).

Enslaved

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

Like how teens just can't look further than their own nose.

What if one have tank or healer only on his account? He is geared well and able to literally carry most hardest group content on his role.
What he would do in the vMA?
Right - nothing.

This is true, but on the other hand, what would one that has tank or healer only even seek in DD content with DD rewards such is vMA? No reward from this arena is nearly as good as other stuff such tank/healer would want anyways.

@Enslaved The Restro staff and S&B are not without merit.

They just aren't BiS, and you likely will obtaining them on a DPS alt, vs the healer or tank that ultimate ends up using them.

With the way gear is shuffled about, it makes it not that much different than any other content in that regard.

TBH, master resto is way better and so is master sword compared to their vMA pairs. But I look at that from PvP perspective, so...

Merlin13KAGL

Enslaved wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

Like how teens just can't look further than their own nose.

What if one have tank or healer only on his account? He is geared well and able to literally carry most hardest group content on his role.
What he would do in the vMA?
Right - nothing.

This is true, but on the other hand, what would one that has tank or healer only even seek in DD content with DD rewards such is vMA? No reward from this arena is nearly as good as other stuff such tank/healer would want anyways.

@Enslaved The Restro staff and S&B are not without merit.

They just aren't BiS, and you likely will obtaining them on a DPS alt, vs the healer or tank that ultimate ends up using them.

With the way gear is shuffled about, it makes it not that much different than any other content in that regard.

TBH, master resto is way better and so is master sword compared to their vMA pairs. But I look at that from PvP perspective, so...

Agreed, but at least they're not completely useless, unlike some of the vAS weapons, for instance.

Undefwun

Enslaved wrote: »

TBH, master resto is way better and so is master sword compared to their vMA pairs. But I look at that from PvP perspective, so...

Love the vMA resto on my magblade... getting good magicka return on it..

The_Sadist

I returned roughly 2 months ago after an on-again-off-again 3 year break. When I heard about vMA and how the weapons are basically BiS I decided to jump right in and take a swing at it. Ultimately it took approximately 4 hours to get my first clear with hundreds of deaths.. All that energy and time resulted in a bloody two handed mace. It took a loot of swearing and a few youtube videos, but I got there in the end. These days I can complete vMA in a bit over an hour and actually got my first flawless a few days ago.
My point is, if I can do it as a very average player who had 300CP and over 300 ping, I just can't to see how a majority of players struggle with it, assuming they're built appropriately. It is tough, but each attempt and each win makes it so much easier. Honestly I waste more time on stage 7 these days due to poor RNG or my ping issues.
For all the struggling Sorc players this video right here should help. I use a slightly altered version myself, but it does the job!

hamsterontherocksb16_ESO

To put it simple:
You only need BiS if you want to do endgame (vet trial an above). If you want to do vet trials you should be able to complete vMA. If you can´t even beat vMA you will not pull your weight in vet trials.

The only ones really suffering from vMA are pure tanks and healers. They will have no real chance to beat this. But vMA is not BiS for any of these roles, so they could´t care less. So only DD actually needs to complete it and that leads me to my initial statement, if you can´t beat vMA you have no place in vet trials.

vMA is learning spawns and adjusting to mechanics. As are most vet trials. Knowing what to focus down immediately and what mechanics have to be followed. Thats your vet trial broken down to single player.

Doing vMA is a great way to become a better player. You will learn alot about your class and how to optimize your playstile. The first few time in vMA are gruesome, but you get better and better. And thats the magic of this place. Once you know your spawns and mechanics and you try to go for flawless or better scores the only ways to improve is to optimize your dps and buff uptime. Or up your survivability to be less reliant on sigils. All of this makes you a way better player. So don´t refuse or fight vMA, it sucked for everyone. Rather embrace it as a chance to get really good at your class and become a much better player.

Merlin13KAGL

hamsterontherocksb16_ESO wrote: »

To put it simple:
You only need BiS if you want to do endgame (vet trial an above). If you want to do vet trials you should be able to complete vMA. If you can´t even beat vMA you will not pull your weight in vet trials.

I don't necessarily agree with this.

Will vMA improve your skills and make you a better player? Yes.

Will not having completed vMA automatically make a you a liability in vet trials? Not so much, especially since the builds and methods are completely different for both sets of content.

boombazookajd

I'm stuck on stage 6, and have been for two weeks now. Though to be fair, I've taken a break from vMA because of the event (I'm not dealing with the frustration of lag induced deaths) and to round out my mag blade for his run next. Here's what vMA has taught me:

1. How to sustain. In 4 man content especially, I would often rely on my healer for shards and knew that I could go overboard on mag use and then sit back and heavy attack more than I really should.
2. How to self-heal
3. How to target prioritize quickly
4. to move, deal damage, and think
5. I'm way better at the game than I was performing

I've gone on to solo world bosses, Skyreach, dolmens, and other content that I considered to be difficult. I'm getting froggy enough to want to try and solo the beginner dungeons now. I won't quit on vMA because I refuse to fail at a stinking video game.

vMA is an exercise in masochism for sure and I don't think it separates men from boys (no silly video game does that) and if I can't complete it, well, some of the things I've done in my life guarantee I'm not a "boy" (I love when folks throw in the toxic masculinity).

I still stand by this one opinion: vMA only needs to change the rewarding of the weapons. I've posted in a few vMA related threads about moving to a token system that at the very least, allows you to choose your weapon after 10 runs that include sigil use and deaths. I think 10 runs is a pretty fair amount of times to run it before you get to choose the weapon and not dying or not using sigils, or scoring in the top x% of leaderboard times should award you with a greater number of tokens.

What ZOS did to this arena when it first came out, no guaranteed weapon drops, was just offensive. I hate that any player had to run this as much as they did, and I hate it that they hold that experience over the heads of everyone else who finds this to be pure insanity. From the start, this arena, being the most difficult content in the game should not have ended with an RNG drop not including a weapon and it shouldn't still rely on the RNG drops (though it has become easier, there are still terrible horror stories of folks not getting a fire staff after 50 runs).

Gnortranermara

Saying that you're doing the other roles is an exaggeration. You don't have to be a healer, just self-heal a bit. You don't have to be a tank, just avoid damage and survive a few hits when they happen. Being capable of some self-sufficiency is important, even in group content. Plenty of trials require DPS to operate on their own, at least temporarily.

I honestly wouldn't want to take a DPS who couldn't complete VMA into a vet trial with my team, and that has nothing to do with possessing the BiS gear. A DPS who can't complete VMA simply isn't ready for endgame content yet. Completing VMA is a barebones minimum bar of entry to prove your ability to operate independently (as you often need to do in vet trials) and obey mechanics.

Darkenarlol

if you are good vMA becomes peace of cake and you deserve your weapons

if you are scrub... well...git good lol to become a player who deserves those weapons

actually vMA is some kind of skill check and capability of learning and performing mechanics


i had many pugs in my dlc hm runs and it is mostly went two ways :
- with the guys who wh completed vma ( not to mention vMA fans like me who just clears it to check fresh toons/new builds)
it usually becomes a smooth run with competent players
- with those who can't complete it it becomes a mess with useless scrubs who can't manage resources and keep up alive

so...you actually have a choise - get good if you are intrested in endgame pve or... go RP / pickup flowers /whatever

but please don't make threads like I'M TOTAL SCRUB SO NERF THAT CONTENT and/or GIMME STUFF FOR FREE
(cuz ma mommy paid for this game sob sob nad she sais that i'm a wonder and deserve only the best)

like srsly man go do something more usefull than whine - l2p or just don't bother with content which is not at your skill level

abzdeman

Practice Practice Practice! Most people who can't do VMA only go in there once in a while.

Do at least 4 runs a week to learn spawns, Mechanics and make sure you are constantly working on your rotation.

Try and increase your dps to about 40k you will fly through it. Don't panic be confident.

Facefister

vMA is a skill check for vTrails with a weapon as a reward. You can't pass it, you don't need the weapons.

DeadlyRecluse

While I don't personally have a problem with it, OP isn't wrong. Some of the best weapons for group play are locked behind solo content (vMA).

But that's not really a problem. Most great sets for PvP are locked behind PvE content. Tons of great equipment for solo play is locked behind group content. A fair amount of solid sets are locked behind crafting "content."

Gear drops in different places--if you want to have access to all the gear in the game you have to do all the things.

generalmyrick

Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »

So, with the Orsinium event in full swing, I thought I'd take another stab at actually completing VMA. 680 Magsorc, running a pet build because that seems the best suited for it. After a grueling 5 hours getting to the round 7 boss, I gave up. Here are my thoughts on VMA, and why it makes no sense from a design standpoint.

VMA is a solo trial. That's cool, I guess. Certainly different. But there aren't NPC tanks or NPC healers, you need to essentially do all 3 roles yourself. Okay...that's certainly different. But still cool, right? ....Right?

I guess the main disconnect, for me, is that your reward for completing this "look mom, I can be all 3 roles at once!" lesson in masochism is a weapon that is BiS or nearly BiS....for PvE. In case it needs to be said here, PvE in this game is, in every other instance team based. So what we've got here is arguably the best weapons in the game, for this team-based game.....locked behind a solo trial, in which you need to act unlike you do in the other 99% of all content.

Sure, other MMOs have solo instances / trials / etc like VMA, but you know what they're smart enough not to do? Gate the best equipment behind these solo events. The reason the trinity is such a popular concept in MMOs is because people like to specialize. This is literally seen in all corners of the real world, where specialization has launched us into the modern era. Most people don't hunt or grow their own food anymore, nor do they make their own clothes or tools. This is because we found specialization to be far more efficient. The trinity of tank, dps, and heals reflects this principle nicely. I'd argue support should be added, but that's not really part of this argument.

And sure, VMA is hard. You need to be skilled to complete VMA, of that there is no doubt. But the whole point of group content is so that you don't need to be this "jack of all trades" that VMA forces you to be. The very idea of VMA is in direct opposition to the entire endgame. So why is some of the best gear found there? That's like winning top-of-the-line football cleats....for winning a bowling tournament. Sure, it's an achievement, but why not get a bowling trophy?

What I'm trying to say is that VMA should award bragging rights, and nothing else. Maybe some skins, maybe a cool daedric mount or some other cosmetic. Not gear, and certainly not gear that helps you maximize your dps in group content.

And to anyone who's about to retort with "your'e just salty you can't complete it", yeah I'm salty. I'm salty that I'm forced to do this nonsensical, unrelated content to push my dps in the content I actually enjoy and excel at. I do 25-30k dps with most of my toons, I can heal vet dungeons, and I can even tank. I just can't do all 3, my brain doesn't work that way. I wanted to throw my computer out the window so many times today, it just isn't fun. I'm arguing that I shouldn't be punished for that, nobody should.

i got weapons i dont use after hours of torture...no incentive to do it again. ;-)

Icy_Waffles

I had a harder time doing it on my pet Sorc than my Stam sorc. Then when event launched I run it 6 or 7 times to get all my drops.

Kuramas9tails

What you are doing in VMA is self perseverance. It's suppose to be hard to challenge yourself. I spent 4 weeks in there 2 years ago on Vet. Before that, I couldn't even get past the 5th round on normal but I was a Stamblade and I had no idea what I was doing with my build. Once you know your build and the mechanic, it's easy.

kylewwefan

Dude. You spent like a day in there. I was stuck on the last boss for a year. That’s right. A year. I spent 45 minutes a day trying to finish it off. For months and then gave up on it. Then I went back. I should have deleted the quest and started fresh. It would have probably made me a better player faster.

I’ve no idea why everyone claims PetSorc is so easy to farm VMA. In my experiences, Stamina Nightblade then Stamina Templar rule. I’m just not that great at magic toons.

I just recently beat it on my MagBlade with 18.5k DPS and Mag Warden with 22K DPS.

All I’m saying is you got to find something that works for you, and there’s a lot more to this game than beating on a dummy trying to get more damage. You got to learn how to play. VMA will teach you how to play.

AndyMac

I think vMA is great content - despite the lag and the bugs. Whilst it's a lot easier than it used to be, it's still legit end game with the benefit that it only requires you to complete.

As someone who is in many ways a solo player, that's a big upside.

I don't have to wait for a hour for the vet raid to form or shake my head at a tank who can't stay up or a dps who doesn't know the dungeon - it's just me and the arena. So if there's nothing much else happening, I can always run vMA.

I really enjoy it.