VMA Makes no Sense, and Here's Why

Crafts_Many_Boxes

So, with the Orsinium event in full swing, I thought I'd take another stab at actually completing VMA. 680 Magsorc, running a pet build because that seems the best suited for it. After a grueling 5 hours getting to the round 7 boss, I gave up. Here are my thoughts on VMA, and why it makes no sense from a design standpoint.

VMA is a solo trial. That's cool, I guess. Certainly different. But there aren't NPC tanks or NPC healers, you need to essentially do all 3 roles yourself. Okay...that's certainly different. But still cool, right? ....Right?

I guess the main disconnect, for me, is that your reward for completing this "look mom, I can be all 3 roles at once!" lesson in masochism is a weapon that is BiS or nearly BiS....for PvE. In case it needs to be said here, PvE in this game is, in every other instance team based. So what we've got here is arguably the best weapons in the game, for this team-based game.....locked behind a solo trial, in which you need to act unlike you do in the other 99% of all content.

Sure, other MMOs have solo instances / trials / etc like VMA, but you know what they're smart enough not to do? Gate the best equipment behind these solo events. The reason the trinity is such a popular concept in MMOs is because people like to specialize. This is literally seen in all corners of the real world, where specialization has launched us into the modern era. Most people don't hunt or grow their own food anymore, nor do they make their own clothes or tools. This is because we found specialization to be far more efficient. The trinity of tank, dps, and heals reflects this principle nicely. I'd argue support should be added, but that's not really part of this argument.

And sure, VMA is hard. You need to be skilled to complete VMA, of that there is no doubt. But the whole point of group content is so that you don't need to be this "jack of all trades" that VMA forces you to be. The very idea of VMA is in direct opposition to the entire endgame. So why is some of the best gear found there? That's like winning top-of-the-line football cleats....for winning a bowling tournament. Sure, it's an achievement, but why not get a bowling trophy?

What I'm trying to say is that VMA should award bragging rights, and nothing else. Maybe some skins, maybe a cool daedric mount or some other cosmetic. Not gear, and certainly not gear that helps you maximize your dps in group content.

And to anyone who's about to retort with "your'e just salty you can't complete it", yeah I'm salty. I'm salty that I'm forced to do this nonsensical, unrelated content to push my dps in the content I actually enjoy and excel at. I do 25-30k dps with most of my toons, I can heal vet dungeons, and I can even tank. I just can't do all 3, my brain doesn't work that way. I wanted to throw my computer out the window so many times today, it just isn't fun. I'm arguing that I shouldn't be punished for that, nobody should.

Mattock_Romulus

You're just salty you can't complete it.

Katahdin

The problem is that if it was just for bragging rights and the drops werent worth it, almost no one would run it.

Why bother going through that pain if you get nothing from it? Most would do the first room then say "nah not gona bother"
Its because those weapons are available no where else that people put themselves through it.

I feel your pain though. Id really love to have a Master's Bow but its probably never going to happen.
I havent started VMA yet.....I keep putting it off....lol

Honestly, the stuff from VMA or VDSA is not necessary to play the game. You can get along and excel at the game perfectly fine without it.
Yea you might get 2-3K more DPS out with a VMA weapon but if youre already doing 25-30 you dont need it

Yakidafi

Wait, did you not say you are a pet sorc?

So you got hardened ward and surge, why are you complaining about having to be a healer and a tank?

Just keep practising and you will get it, if not then you don't need it.

Kikke

vMA is oldschool with simple mechanics you've seen over and over in overland and dungeons. Beating vMA tells more about you as a person, that you dont quit at the sight of challenge. first time is allways hard, exept maybe those that have hold it off for too long. Anyhow! If you dont want to challenge yourself, why do you want the BiS weapons?

Jurand80

Vma already awards bragging rights. Hey, look at my maelstrom destros!

your'e just salty you can't complete it

LadyLethalla

I make my own clothes... I'm not just proud of that, I'm smug about it

NupidStoob

You don't do anything in vMA a typical tank or healer does. The best way to complete vMA is still being a strong DPS that knows how to survive and it's insanely valuable to know how to do that even in group trials. By your argumentation every DD death in a group trial would be the fault of tank and healers and that is certainly not the case.

Thannazzar

Vma is principally a memory test. Knowing where and when the spawns are and ensuring there is a CC and a ground based dot ready for them.

Otherwise with a pet build your just heavy attacking, re~applying ward and waiting for shards to proc. With a barswap every 24 seconds for surge.

Enslaved

Well, OP picked easiest class and setup to beat vMA. Bit more time and he/she/it will complete it.

Troneon

Half the time VMA is pure luck of RNG / lag and not even challenging, just pattern repetition and luck with the right sets. Then they throw in some cheapy one shots, zos love their one shot "mechanics"...I would not even call them a mechanic, more like lazy way to attempt to make content "challenging"...

I ran it many times and completed it many times back when I was CP300-400. Not worth the effort, did not fund it fun at all. Some of the worst content I have played in any game. I may go for it again since event is one and now im max CP but honestly, I am in no rush...

Runefang

Troneon wrote: »

Half the time VMA is pure luck of RNG / lag and not even challenging, just pattern repetition and luck with the right sets. Then they throw in some cheapy one shots, zos love their one shot "mechanics"...I would not even call them a mechanic, more like lazy way to attempt to make content "challenging"...

I ran it many times and completed it many times back when I was CP300-400. Not worth the effort, did not fund it fun at all. Some of the worst content I have played in any game. I may go for it again since event is one and now im max CP but honestly, I am in no rush...

It's not rng related at all. People who practice vma get extremely consistent results that proves otherwise.

Enslaved

well stage 7 is rng afaik
Sometimes you get these shrroms explode under your anti yell dome and than you can pretty much cry.

Kelces

Well, not a bad point actually.

Can anybody deny, that a game that is always, not only in PvE, supposed to be a team-based game and therefore has to reward group based challenges better than single player content?

The stuff from vMA could stay the same, just some slightly better things somewhere else and all would be fine...

pattyLtd

VMA frustration pretty sure we all been there and vented it one way or another (I wanted to throw my computer out the window too and im on ps4 )
.
I struggled with it alot and even deleted quest twice on last boss.
Not in rage but because i didnt like to get that frustrated because of something as meaningless as a videogame.

All i read here is that frustration but you’ll get there OP and then you’ll feel proud of your “achievement”.

AlienatedGoat

vMA teaches you many skills that translate over to vet PvE. If you want to clear vMA, you have to know your class and build inside and out, you need to know how to adapt to difficult mechanics and make solid strategies to defeat them, you have to develop a strong sense of situational awareness, and be able to react to threats very quickly. This is even more true if you want a flawless clear.

All if these skills are vital in succeeding in vet endgame PvE. vMA is a good way to develop those skills, and on your own time.

Valrien

vMA is partially RNG partially memorization. Mostly memorization. There are just a certain few random mechanics that can screw you.

idk

Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »

So what we've got here is arguably the best weapons in the game, for this team-based game.....locked behind a solo trial, in which you need to act unlike you do in the other 99% of all content.

Good area awareness and keen player skills for survival are important in every aspect of the game. If you are not seeing this point you are not thinking like a raid leader. They notice players that die often.

Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »

What I'm trying to say is that VMA should award bragging rights, and nothing else.

Very few who have put forth the effort and time to be able to clear it will agree.

Edit: Both sentences are the ones OP considered most important, hence (s)he made them bold.

I am going to leave a couple links that may help OP if (s)he truly wants to work to conquer vMA. Both are to help beginners.
'
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/372562/horow-s-afk-vma-sorc-build-for-people-looking-to-clear-for-the-first-time/p1
https://alcasthq.com/eso-magicka-sorcerer-maelstrom-pve/

getemshauna

It doesn't make sense indeed. And you know why? Not because vMA "requires" 3 roles at once. Because player that can't complete it, won't make a good use of weapons dropping there. Those weapons are created for pushing your limits even more, but you don't need it if you can't finish vMA.

TheInfernalRage

I have not completed it myself, but vMA is fun. Sure it can make me want to smash my screen sometimes, but I like it the way it is.

Chibs

Man everybody is being very rude to the op. Though most of them are right, they are being very nasty about it. To reiterate in what others have said, if vMA didn’t reward good weapons nobody would run it. If nobody wants to run certain content then people won’t buy the dlc. If people don’t want the dlc then ZOS loses money. It simply makes sense from a business standpoint to keep these great weapons here (which have been nerfed a couple times already). Not only does vMA reward great weapons (where only bow and Fire Staff is BiS btw), it tests and even elevates your skill level, because you have to overcome challenges all by yourself with no group support. The players who can’t complete vet Maelstrom are quite frankly players who can’t make very good use of the vMA weapons anyway.

TheDarkoil

VMA nearly made me quit the game entirely, had a 6 month break leaving my character stuck on the last round but I found a pet build that worked for me and I actually breezed through it. I find round 7 the hardest as well, I don't like the shield mechanic on the last boss, they should change it so the shield protects you from the pod venom as well although against other people's advice I bash the boss now and just kill the shield guys when they spawn, makes the fight longer but easier to control.

Beardimus

Sorry OP that does jist sound bitter that you are struggling / frustrated.

It's the pinnacle solo content in the game. It's meant to be hard first pass. Once through you will soon be halving your time to complete as its mainly mechanics or poor DPS that's your issue.

For me its pinnacle PvE. Trials is dull, stood in red and as unnatural as you say vMA is. This is content that teaches you about your build, handy for PvP too in a way that you learn. To motivate, to move etc.

I would say, complete it, then critique it......as you haven't keanrt Half the lessons from it you need to till you do

Hulda

Thannazzar wrote: »

Otherwise with a pet build your just heavy attacking, re~applying ward and waiting for shards to proc. With a barswap every 24 seconds for surge.

Frags? Cmon you're making it too hard, heavy attack is enough.

npuk

I think VMA is just right, it's one of the last bits of `hard content` left in the game. The general dumbing down of the game has spoiled so much and reduces the sense of achievement for for players. Take IC for example, the district bosses in there used to be a real challenge where you would need a decent group to bring them down, now you can solo them.

OP: You are not being "punished", would you say you were being punish for not being able to drive a car if you failed your driving test? At CP680 you still have a tonne of the game to experience, just enjoy it, i'm CP1057 and still haven't finished it on vet and i'm in no hurry to as its nice to still have content to work towards.

Runefang

Enslaved wrote: »

well stage 7 is rng afaik
Sometimes you get these shrroms explode under your anti yell dome and than you can pretty much cry.

There are multiple ways to mitigate that:
1. Interrupt the boss when he goes to scream if you can't get to a safe space. Kite him until he dies.
2. Check the position of both adds before you kill one, make sure you pick the right one which has no nearby poison.
3. If there is poison under both then kite them away from the poison.
4. Kill a venomcaller in the 2nd last round when the trolls are up, delay killing them for a bit and then finish then. It should ensure that a venomcaller comes up before the adds giving you breathing space during that mechanic.

They're randomly placed sure, but you have multiple methods of dealing with it.

Corpier

Git gud.

Everyone who has gotten their vMA weapons has struggled through for their first clear. It is a learning experience. Besides, chances are if you are not up to the task of vMA, you are not going to be doing hard enough content in game to actually NEED the weapons.

Qbiken

Runefang wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

well stage 7 is rng afaik
Sometimes you get these shrroms explode under your anti yell dome and than you can pretty much cry.

There are multiple ways to mitigate that:
1. Interrupt the boss when he goes to scream if you can't get to a safe space. Kite him until he dies.
2. Check the position of both adds before you kill one, make sure you pick the right one which has no nearby poison.
3. If there is poison under both then kite them away from the poison.
4. Kill a venomcaller in the 2nd last round when the trolls are up, delay killing them for a bit and then finish then. It should ensure that a venomcaller comes up before the adds giving you breathing space during that mechanic.

They're randomly placed sure, but you have multiple methods of dealing with it.

5. What I usually do is that I decide where in stage 7 I want to fight the majority of the adds, and try to keep that area clean from poison-plants. By activating the poison plants manually (by walking close to them and then outrun them).

And in my experience it´s very rare to actually get a poison plant right under the shield. Sure I´ve experienced it, but very rarely.

Daedric_NB_187

VMA is a 4 man vet hm dungeon that the devs forgot to allow the other three group members into. That is my take on it.

ReachHalo

OP it doesn't make sense because you haven't completed it yet. When you do and you dive straight back into it you will realise what everyone who has completed it says... it's not that hard, and its mostly just mechanics and learning them.

So read all of the responses about where people have struggled... almost everyone has and will in their first try. And you are obviously no different. Read a guide, watch a clip and keep trying.

VMa is a beautiful thing that separates the men from the boys, so to speak, and aside from the rng, makes complete sense. Unfortunately, bitching about not getting it, and how it doesn't make sense, in the forums is just plain salty.

SilverWF

OP are mostly right

Forcing a player to play all 3 roles just to get stuff, that can be useful only in 4-12 men content, well, it's strange at least.

I.e. GW2 has the similar suff (in events, mostly), but player can choose - what role to play there: tank, DD or healer. In the trial player pairing up with NPC and would must to kill stuff fast, or heal that NPC, or protect for some time.