VMA Makes no Sense, and Here's Why

Doctordarkspawn

Mattock_Romulus wrote: »

You're just salty you can't complete it.

No, he makes a good point about how locking stuff like this as a status symbol behind a solo arena makes no sense in a predominantly team based game, or at least that's how their balancing it.

Doctordarkspawn

Alcast wrote: »

vMA is a patients game. vMA is very difficult if you are not that experienced with content like that. However, it is doable, you just need patience and maybe guidance and you will be able to do it. Originally, when Maelstrom came out, it used to be more than twice as difficult as it currently is. But due to Champion Points and overall damage increase we received it got tremendously easier.

I do have a lot of Maelstrom content on my website and youtube if you want to take a look.
Maelstrom Beginner Guides: https://alcasthq.com/eso-maelstrom-arena-introduction-pve/
Gameplay, full runs etc: https://alcasthq.com/maelstrom-arena-gameplay/

Nobody's arguing the difficulty. The OP is arguing whether or not that reward should be gated behind solo content as a status symbol, and it shouldn't. The fact that he put that last bit in the OP is because people were going to say it reguardless of his point, it's an easy way to devalue people who critisize the game or the difficult content in any capacity. It never should have been. Gear should have been restricted to team based activies, and VMA was made before the designers realized, that if they did this, instead of making the incentive cosmetics, they suddenly created an extremely elitist culture at endgame that suddenly made less people -want- to get that far.

There's a reason that new trials only have skins and cosmetics, as rewards, and that everything else can be farmed in normal. VMA is the last remnant of a failed design philosophy. And the only reason it hasn't been changed is because for some reason people keep lawding it as some beautifully designed content.

@Crafts_Many_Boxes I've been saying it for years. But no one is going to lisen to you. "Git gud" is an easy way to protect the 'difficult' content which is in vogue right now by denying there's anything wrong with it, and as far as this community is concerned, if you cannot self improve, you are not worth the air you breathe. I suggest you put your time into better games. Because this one is too mired trying to be everquest lite.

Soleya

SoLooney wrote: »

vma is old content and originally made for 300 cp. youre playing on one of the easiest classes with magblade probably being the easiest class.

Ironically, I have no complete on magblade. I've beaten it on Mag Sorc, Mag DK, Stam Warden, Mag Warden, Stam Sorc and Stam NB.

I find Magblade harder than Stamblade.

Really comes down to how people play. I play better on stam builds.

To the OP: vMA is a test to make you better at the game. The experience you gain in there will make you a better player, far better than the weapons will do.

For the first run through, it feels like you have to do every role, especially a lot of healing, but this is because you haven't memorized priority targets yet, and what's going to hit you next.

Also, use sigils...use them ALL. I see so many people struggle with first complete and refuse to take sigils. They are there to help you the first few times, and they make a huge difference. Knowing which sigils to take and when can make a difference, and will help you learn which threats are worse. Take defense sigil right before a bunch of casters spawn, they'll practically kill themselves.

Cr4p0w3

Man I beated it on my Magplar and MagSorc, none of them can reach 30K DPS.
I got 23K on magsorc and 20k on Magplar.
I'm not a really good player, but if I did it, OP will surelly do.

Use sigils and all you have at your disposal to finish it.
Once you get used to mechanics then you can try going for leaderboards.

Me, I'm just worried about finishing for the drops, I'm not skilled enough to get to leaderboards atm.
Still waiting for RNGsus to give me a destro staff and a bow.

meatboll

suckness is not excuse。

Doctordarkspawn

meatboll wrote: »

suckness is not excuse。

Base a game around the 1% and you had best hope said 1% can sustain the game all on their own.

VMA was never repeated for a reason, and if the new arena coming with murkmire has gear like VMA does, I will be suprised. At the very least I forsee the weapons either being niche, or being able to be farmed on normal, as it should be.

mocap

So i finished this arena few minutes ago and that was my first run. Here is my setup, thoughts and conslusions:
- mag templar healer;
- stupidly wierd troll-like gear for vMA: TBS + SPC + Mighty Chudan;
- most of attacks comes from Vampire Bane, Spear Shard, Sweeps and light attacks with.... resto stave lol, which doesn't even have a damage enchant;
- it took me 30-40 deaths to finish and about 3 hours;
- i beat this arena almost without using Sigils. I use them sometimes without any stategy, just randomy hit one for no reason;
- rounds 1-6 was meh;
- most of deaths was in round 7 due to random poison mashrooms. Also i slowpoked that damn nightblades can be bashed while they perform Taking Aim;
- final round was a joke until last boss. Took me like 15 deaths to kill him. And he eat golden ghost twice ) Also I din't use Sigils in this fight as well as stamina potions. Most of rounds i didn't use any potions;

- general advice for most rounds (besides mechanics, ofcuz) - kill trashes as fast as you can, they are the real threat;

As you can see, that was a clearly trolling playthrough, and yet i did it. So you can.

p.s.
damn arena gave me some nice bribe, but heck i'm not going there anytime soon.

upd:
realised that i probably can't use this staff on my healer. Well, at least i have that buletproof or whatever ist's called title. So yeah, vMA kinda makes no sense for me

LadyNalcarya

idk wrote: »

Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »

? It is so incredibly stressful and hectic that I guarantee you, if PvE in general were like VMA, 98% of the max-level playerbase would just quit outright.

@Crafts_Many_Boxes

You are 100% correct. You make a great point and below I explain how.

ESO has tiered difficulty levels and vMA is near the top of difficulty. The idea is to offer challenges for the various interests in the game.

If you want a less challenging experience there is nMA.

What is odd is you make this follow up comment yet you ignore the posts where assistance for new players attempting vMA is provided.

That merely shows you are just raging and ranting instead of having a true interest in clearing vMA. You come off with a sense of entitlement.

Edit: if you are actually interested in clearly vMA go back to my previous post and view the links. It will take effort but much less effort than those who cleared it in the first year since we can now save progress and it is probably easier in general.

vMA is nowhere near the top difficulty.
First clear might be difficult (depending on a player), but new group content is much harder. The only difference is that in dungeons you can get carried.

Agenericname

idk wrote: »

Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »

? It is so incredibly stressful and hectic that I guarantee you, if PvE in general were like VMA, 98% of the max-level playerbase would just quit outright.

@Crafts_Many_Boxes

You are 100% correct. You make a great point and below I explain how.

ESO has tiered difficulty levels and vMA is near the top of difficulty. The idea is to offer challenges for the various interests in the game.

If you want a less challenging experience there is nMA.

What is odd is you make this follow up comment yet you ignore the posts where assistance for new players attempting vMA is provided.

That merely shows you are just raging and ranting instead of having a true interest in clearing vMA. You come off with a sense of entitlement.

Edit: if you are actually interested in clearly vMA go back to my previous post and view the links. It will take effort but much less effort than those who cleared it in the first year since we can now save progress and it is probably easier in general.

I thought that was part of the experience of a first time vMA clear.

I havent quite got the recipe down yet, but I'm sure that the ingredients masochism, frustration, and determination are used with some rantings for garnish.

5 hours to the boss in stage 7? You're doing a lot better than I am.

Facefister

I am farming it with my Stamsorc at the moment. Still missing those inferno/lightning staves

Sets
Stormfist
Automaton
Unfathomable Darkness
vMA bow

Anyone who somewhat takes his/her character serious can beat it.

lishybach

Hi there! I am really not trying to be that person, but I guess I will be.
Vma is hard. Very hard. Which you know.
I cried limitless amount of times telling myself I couldn’t do it. That I sucked at the game. That this game was worthless & I was worthless. I remember searching builds and seeing that a maelstrom weapon was always being used. And I just knew, I’d never have one. Until I asked for help. A guildie practically took me under his wing & helped me get a good build, he helped me with rotations, he helped me with farming my gear I needed. I went from 20k to 34k dps in a week. I got stuck on stage 5 for a month. A MONTH. I tried every day. After my build was complete, I decided to start all over from the beginning. I died a couple of times in stage 5, and even though it was frustrating. I got through it & let me tell you it was the best feeling ever. Stages 6-9 I took my time and learned mechanics. I died. A LOT. And it’s okay to die. But knowing mechanics is PRIORITY. Watching YouTube videos helped me a lot. When I finally beat VMA, my husband being the witness, I cried. I cried because I worked so hard to get where I am. I could finally say I beat VMA. I can wear that Stormproof title around & be proud! And not to mention, I tried VMA at champion level 750. With you being in the 680s and you already got to stage 7? That’s great! After my first run, I didn’t get what I needed, but in my mind I knew, if I did it this time, I can do it again. I’ve done VMA 5 times already. You have to have a good attitude about it. Trust me, I half what agree with your post, but you won’t get anywhere with that attitude.

Taleof2Cities

The hardest vMA clear is the first one.

Keep at it ... and don’t be afraid to use sigils or change skills up based on the Arena stage.

Gnortranermara

mocap wrote: »

realised that i probably can't use this staff on my healer.

@mocap

Actually, the VMA lightning staff is phenomenal on a healer. Charged VMA lightning with a shock enchant is considered BiS.

The best setup is SPC+Mending, with a Mending Resto on front bar. Mending only procs when you cast an AOE heal, so you only need to complete the 5 pc on the bar that you're throwing your heals from.

SippingPotions

When I moved over to PC from ps4 I beat vMA on a non pet mag sorc with 213 cp wearing julianos/mothers sorrow I got from a guild trader and no monster set. Instead of asking them to nerf vMA to complete irrelevancy please just L2P.

idk

Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

If you can't complete VMA, your DPS is probably not high enough to notice a difference with VMA(back bar only) weapons.

As to your trinity argument, yes VMA does require knowledge of mechanics, and the ability to take care of yourself, but it doesnt require the same skill set as a tank or healer. Nothing needs taunting, and nothing is a one-shot that isnt a very obvious mechanic. In other words, you dont have mechanics that a traditional tank would hold aggro and block. Your shield will absorb any damage source in the arena that isnt specifically designed to be a one-shot, but again, those mechanics are all stage specific and dont require a damage sponge. They require following the mechanic. Your pet sorc with surge has more than enough heals for the entire arena. If pressing a button every 30 seconds for heals is too much, well don't know what to tell you.

Any time you are solo, you are going to be the focus of all enemies in the area and will be the only one worrying about your health bar. It is unavoidable if designing a solo instance unless they actually programmed NPCs as companions.

As to whether it's appropriate to lock end game DPS weapons behind solo content, well, I get the argument, but see my first point.

My statement about the content being solo to get some of the best group gear remains though. And they totally could add NPC tanks / healers in, and mix and match depending on which role you have selected in group finder. Plenty of other games have created encounters like that, though I can't recall any in ESO offhand.

I am glad to see your tone has tempered.

However, I would point out that the idea of the solo encounter is for it to be solo. It does not require a tank, or even a healer, to be in there with you. Surge will heal you (do not forget to shield often) and the idea is to avoid damage instead of having someone take it for you.

Having an NPC tank or healer would certainly make the content easier, but the point is to have content that provides a challenge.

Get that cleared, and especially cleared a few times, you will not only be a better player but will have reason to think better of your playing ability.

Doctordarkspawn

idk wrote: »

Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

If you can't complete VMA, your DPS is probably not high enough to notice a difference with VMA(back bar only) weapons.

As to your trinity argument, yes VMA does require knowledge of mechanics, and the ability to take care of yourself, but it doesnt require the same skill set as a tank or healer. Nothing needs taunting, and nothing is a one-shot that isnt a very obvious mechanic. In other words, you dont have mechanics that a traditional tank would hold aggro and block. Your shield will absorb any damage source in the arena that isnt specifically designed to be a one-shot, but again, those mechanics are all stage specific and dont require a damage sponge. They require following the mechanic. Your pet sorc with surge has more than enough heals for the entire arena. If pressing a button every 30 seconds for heals is too much, well don't know what to tell you.

Any time you are solo, you are going to be the focus of all enemies in the area and will be the only one worrying about your health bar. It is unavoidable if designing a solo instance unless they actually programmed NPCs as companions.

As to whether it's appropriate to lock end game DPS weapons behind solo content, well, I get the argument, but see my first point.

My statement about the content being solo to get some of the best group gear remains though. And they totally could add NPC tanks / healers in, and mix and match depending on which role you have selected in group finder. Plenty of other games have created encounters like that, though I can't recall any in ESO offhand.

I am glad to see your tone has tempered.

Translation: "I'm glad the sheer amount of social pressure has forced you into a placating position".

Nobody seems to have an answer as to why some of the best gear for group content is in a single player arena though. And for as long as this thread has persisted, nobody has. Whatsoever. I'd love to hear a explination of how this is a good idea.

C0L0SSUS

Only 0.29% clear vma .... like Alcast builds is not for every1 .......

Facefister

C0L0SSUS wrote: »

Only 0.29% clear vma .... like Alcast builds is not for every1 .......

You shouldn't stick to those builds for too long. They're entry level and as soon as you're somewhat familiar with your class/role you should build your own setup.

Gnortranermara

C0L0SSUS wrote: »

Only 0.29% clear vma .... like Alcast builds is not for every1 .......

0.29% of what? Silly pseudo-statistics based on inflated population numbers are meaningless. Thousands of "free weekend" players who quit halfway through the tutorial shouldn't count. People who quit long before Wrothgar was even released shouldn't count. Hell, newbies who haven't even reached CP yet shouldn't count. There's no real way of knowing how many active, endgame players complete Maelstrom, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's over 50%. I see Stormproofs and Flawless Conqs everywhere. 0.29% is crazy talk.

efster

I would agree with you in theory, but in practice, being competent at vMA makes you a better team player. If you can get yourself through vMA without dying (or at least without dying too much), you can consider your DPS character PVE raid ready, because all you need to do in PVE trials is what you need to do in vMA -- know what to do when bad stuff happens while doing good damage.

So yeah, in this team oriented game, this solo challenge that helps you be your very best, is very much relevant and necessary to endgame content. Conversely, I feel like running vMA repeatedly on the same character can dull your senses because you eventually just learn what's about to happen and it's like a ballet, only with blood it's a matter of memory like someone else mentioned above. I think at some point it stops being useful because vMA mechanics are not, say, vCR mechanics.

jcm2606

@Doctordarkspawn That's the thing though, it is practically a status symbol for the OP. As everyone else has said, if the OP is struggling to pass vMA, the weapon at the end is not going to make them an exceptional player who can clear everything. The vMA bow and staff only adds 2-5k DPS at most, if we're being generous.

For someone sitting at 50k+ DPS, where they literally have nothing else to do to their build to squeeze out a little extra damage, that vMA bow or staff is indeed helpful, and is worth it. But for someone only pulling 25-30k DPS, there is more DPS there that you can squeeze out of your character. Clean up your rotation, revisit your skills, gear and CP, learn how your character plays.

A vMA staff is not going to take the OP from 30k DPS to 50k. It'll probably take them to 32-33k DPS, maybe 35k, but no further. They can improve their build in other areas, and see far better results. So the vMA bow is just a status symbol.

If we can agree on that, then I ask what is the point of complaining about it? They don't really need it at this point in time, so why not leave vMA, work on their build in the meantime, and come back later? At this point, they're just complaining that a trophy is too hard to get.

It would be far more productive if they approached it less as a way to get a weapon they want, and more as a learning experience. As a milestone.

And I'm saying this as somebody who only gets 30k DPS himself. Granted I've been in vMA the past few days and have completed it 7 or 8 times now, and gotten a bow, but I struggled. Yesterday I legit got pissed off at the final fight, because I got the boss down to 5-10% and made stupid mistakes, resulting in my death, twice. Not to mention a half dozen to a dozen more stupid deaths in the crystal phase.

Doctordarkspawn

jcm2606 wrote: »

@Doctordarkspawn That's the thing though, it is practically a status symbol for the OP. As everyone else has said, if the OP is struggling to pass vMA, the weapon at the end is not going to make them an exceptional player who can clear everything. The vMA bow and staff only adds 2-5k DPS at most, if we're being generous.

For someone sitting at 50k+ DPS, where they literally have nothing else to do to their build to squeeze out a little extra damage, that vMA bow or staff is indeed helpful, and is worth it. But for someone only pulling 25-30k DPS, there is more DPS there that you can squeeze out of your character. Clean up your rotation, revisit your skills, gear and CP, learn how your character plays.

A vMA staff is not going to take the OP from 30k DPS to 50k. It'll probably take them to 32-33k DPS, maybe 35k, but no further. They can improve their build in other areas, and see far better results. So the vMA bow is just a status symbol.

If we can agree on that, then I ask what is the point of complaining about it? They don't really need it at this point in time, so why not leave vMA, work on their build in the meantime, and come back later? At this point, they're just complaining that a trophy is too hard to get.

It would be far more productive if they approached it less as a way to get a weapon they want, and more as a learning experience. As a milestone.

And I'm saying this as somebody who only gets 30k DPS himself. Granted I've been in vMA the past few days and have completed it 7 or 8 times now, and gotten a bow, but I struggled. Yesterday I legit got pissed off at the final fight, because I got the boss down to 5-10% and made stupid mistakes, resulting in my death, twice. Not to mention a half dozen to a dozen more stupid deaths in the crystal phase.

"What is the point of complaining about it?"

Only this: VMA's effect on this community was to skyrocket it into the eltisim stratosphere. It quickly became irrelevent, but that does not mean the same thing cant happen again, and shouldn't.

Kaartinen

Just keep practicing. Read some guides. I decided to try VMA this week and it took 3 hours to get my first completion. Second completion was 90 mins because I remember most of the mechanics. 3rd completion I didn't even die until psn shrooms spawned in my pocket on Stage 7.

Point is, practice makes all the difference. I'm confident you can succeed if you put forth the effort.

RusevCrush

I like the fact that you have to earn the best weapons. Haven't seen one "wts vma carry 1 mil" in craglorn zone chat.

mattaeus01b16_ESO

I agree with everything you said.
CP1000, cleared VMA once. Have no erg to go back. What sucks is, that if I want to up my DPS with most of my toons, I have to run it till I get what I need. And I know people that have rage quit over that zone, just trying to clear it once.

Hostee

Wow am I and the very few I’ve seen in this post that find vMA fun? I literally run it for transmute crystals and to try and improve my score....

Mister_DMC

Consider VMA learn to play bootcamp. Not everyone survives bootcamp but those that do are better for it.

AbysmalGhul

I have to disagree with ya , TC. I firmly believe VMA is a good training tool. It teaches you resource management, raid awareness, mechanics , and pushing through when things get tough. You don't need VMA per say, but it is a great training aide . I believe harder content for any mode, game etc etc etc should have rewards. You mention VMA is for bragging rights, well VMA weapons, skins, and leader-boards are for bragging rights if you choose so....

Plus, you mention that we shouldn't have to "play as 3 roles at once" yes you do. Harder DLC dungeons and veteran trails require you stay alive and yeah, you're going to have to rely on each other as well as yourself. A dead or clueless teammate is useless. You can't be that guy who stands in the red trying to power through a boss or being that guy who doesn't bash a heavy attack when the tank can't....or be that guy who can't self heal when the healer is being rez'd.

Stop chasing the weapons and learn the dungeon.

Zatox

Some of the best dps sets locked behind group trials - you must prove that you can play in a big group to get it.
Monster sets locked behind dungeon - you must prove that you know how to play in a small group.
Best backbar dps weapons locked behind solo trial - just prove that you know how to play by yourself.
Seems like a pretty nice balance for me.

GrigorijMalahevich

Well you are talking about being “jack of all trades”... let me tell you buddy, yesterday I spent 35 minutes on my stamwarden trying to solo veteran tempest island last boss with 3 x 750cp guys that were dying in 45 seconds in to the fight...

I can tell you one thing, if all of them completed vMA - we would never have this problem.

vMA teaches you to play the game and learn how to get most out of your class.