Magplar PvP

Minno

Datolite wrote: »

I will have to find a spot for both, you guys make such good arguments for them!

Maybe purifying light can go on back bar...

Edit: Okay lineup time. I need you guys to vote off one ability.

Front: Sweeps, Clench, Radiant, Purifying, Drain
Back Ritual, Focus, Accelerate, Degeneration, HtD

And you can't say Radiant! That's my lag crutch skill...

sweeps. force pulse will do wonders in lag.

Kartalin

@Datolite

Just get rid of sweeps, that's your only melee ability of the bunch. Play ranged.

Agree with @Minno though, that would make force pulse/crushing shock a good option. Hate to say it but I would replace radiant with it. Also you could swap Clench for either the other morph for better range, or replace it entirely with javelin to have an aedric ability on your bar.

CatchMeTrolling

Why do people run degeneration?

Minno

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Why do people run degeneration?

Max mag+regen when slotted plus tiny extra healing on LA weaves and procs skoria. If you use a race+willpower, that little baby gives you some extra resources.

Datolite

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Why do people run degeneration?

I mean besides the major sorcery?

And yeah I can see the logic behind dropping sweeps but I've been melee magplar since day 1 and I'ma stick it out I think. Good suggestions though.

Brutusmax1mus

Removing sweeps mean a no minor protection and no 10% crit damage. You can replace it with blazing to still give you a leg up vs melee.

@Datolite my votes accelerate. You're not escaping any one without mist these days, the 10% you get is nice but you get that through your templar passives so it's not like it's nothing. Plus your crit chance is doodoo without bane so having a high multiplier is silly.

You could run spell power/ spell crit pots. If you're argonian I'd for sure do that. Have all the things!!

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Why do people run degeneration?

3 small heals im 12 seconds
2% max mag
Empower on cast
Light attacks have a chance to restore health- more healing
Major sorcery is the main reason.

Or do you wonder why instead of structured?

Datolite

Actually I run Accelerate with 3 swift and Steed these days because I wanted to see if I could be competitive without vamp. So far so good.

Also you're suggesting I drop it in favor of Mist so we're not exactly freeing up a slot there.

CatchMeTrolling

I was wondering why over entropy , I don’t think I ever used degeneration but now it seems everyone uses it

CyrusArya

Datolite wrote: »

I will have to find a spot for both, you guys make such good arguments for them!

Maybe purifying light can go on back bar...

Edit: Okay lineup time. I need you guys to vote off one ability.

Front: Sweeps, Clench, Radiant, Purifying, Drain
Back Ritual, Focus, Accelerate, Degeneration, HtD

And you can't say Radiant! That's my lag crutch skill...

Radiant or purifying light. You don’t really need either and both ele drain and vamp bane are superior skills for damage.

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

I was wondering why over entropy , I don’t think I ever used degeneration but now it seems everyone uses it

Unless you’re double barring structured entropy, having unequal health pools is not a good idea. Can artificially put you into execute range for example. Also, while it may not seem like a lot, if you weave a lot the healing does add up over time. Every little bit helps.

Brutusmax1mus

Datolite wrote: »

Actually I run Accelerate with 3 swift and Steed these days because I wanted to see if I could be competitive without vamp. So far so good.

Also you're suggesting I drop it in favor of Mist so we're not exactly freeing up a slot there.

I wasnt suggesting mist, i meant youll likely miss its damage component less than adding another skill, and im assuming you use it for the damage and escapability instead of the damage and offensive maneuverability (3 seconds is far too short, i use the cast time for 9 seconds of speed and it's wonderful for offense especially with line of sight), although i rarely slot it over mist.

Valdek

Hi all. I'm really enjoying my magplar in pvp at the moment. However, I feel like they are perhaps a bit too strong and feel like they could be frustrating / upsetting other players at the moment. Thoughts?

CatchMeTrolling

CyrusArya wrote: »

Datolite wrote: »

I will have to find a spot for both, you guys make such good arguments for them!

Maybe purifying light can go on back bar...

Edit: Okay lineup time. I need you guys to vote off one ability.

Front: Sweeps, Clench, Radiant, Purifying, Drain
Back Ritual, Focus, Accelerate, Degeneration, HtD

And you can't say Radiant! That's my lag crutch skill...

Radiant or purifying light. You don’t really need either and both ele drain and vamp bane are superior skills for damage.

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

I was wondering why over entropy , I don’t think I ever used degeneration but now it seems everyone uses it

Unless you’re double barring structured entropy, having unequal health pools is not a good idea. Can artificially put you into execute range for example. Also, while it may not seem like a lot, if you weave a lot the healing does add up over time. Every little bit helps.

So I’m assuming this happened when magplars started front barring destro staves. I know it had a built in heal so a lot magblades use it. While I do weave I play the traditional in your face aggressive Templar (weaving in a light attack for damage purposes) and some times I switch back to snb.

I agree that uneven health pools aren’t ideal but that pretty much goes for all the attributes. If anything having uneven resource pools hurt more.

CyrusArya

Valdek wrote: »

Hi all. I'm really enjoying my magplar in pvp at the moment. However, I feel like they are perhaps a bit too strong and feel like they could be frustrating / upsetting other players at the moment. Thoughts?

Strong, yes. Too strong? Not even close. If bad players being upset or frustrated was a basis for balance, then stamblade should have been nerfed over a year ago and yet here we are. Coddling snowflakes that refuse to learn and grow as players ruins the game.

You must be a pretty new if you think magplar is op compared to the stuff eso has seen over the years.

Minno

CyrusArya wrote: »

Valdek wrote: »

Hi all. I'm really enjoying my magplar in pvp at the moment. However, I feel like they are perhaps a bit too strong and feel like they could be frustrating / upsetting other players at the moment. Thoughts?

Strong, yes. Too strong? Not even close. If bad players being upset or frustrated was a basis for balance, then stamblade should have been nerfed over a year ago and yet here we are. Coddling snowflakes that refuse to learn and grow as players ruins the game.

You must be a pretty new if you think magplar is op compared to the stuff eso has seen over the years.

OP is getting something like a 9.3 effective weapon power against a 4k crit resist/30k resist/major protection build.
Can you guess what class can get that?

Minno

Valdek wrote: »

Hi all. I'm really enjoying my magplar in pvp at the moment. However, I feel like they are perhaps a bit too strong and feel like they could be frustrating / upsetting other players at the moment. Thoughts?

I like to fight templars because while it is a telegraphed fight, its largely dependant on mistakes.
I just fought one recently, and both got pretty close to wrecking each other, but then that pesky bowblade came along and decided he had enough lol.

VirtualElizabeth

Minno wrote: »

CyrusArya wrote: »

Valdek wrote: »

Hi all. I'm really enjoying my magplar in pvp at the moment. However, I feel like they are perhaps a bit too strong and feel like they could be frustrating / upsetting other players at the moment. Thoughts?

Strong, yes. Too strong? Not even close. If bad players being upset or frustrated was a basis for balance, then stamblade should have been nerfed over a year ago and yet here we are. Coddling snowflakes that refuse to learn and grow as players ruins the game.

You must be a pretty new if you think magplar is op compared to the stuff eso has seen over the years.

OP is getting something like a 9.3 effective weapon power against a 4k crit resist/30k resist/major protection build.
Can you guess what class can get that?

Let me guess and I think I have a 50/50 chance at being right! Stamden or Stamblade! Do I get a cookie?

Datolite

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Datolite wrote: »

Actually I run Accelerate with 3 swift and Steed these days because I wanted to see if I could be competitive without vamp. So far so good.

Also you're suggesting I drop it in favor of Mist so we're not exactly freeing up a slot there.

I wasnt suggesting mist, i meant youll likely miss its damage component less than adding another skill, and im assuming you use it for the damage and escapability instead of the damage and offensive maneuverability (3 seconds is far too short, i use the cast time for 9 seconds of speed and it's wonderful for offense especially with line of sight), although i rarely slot it over mist.

Yeah tbh the damage component is useless to me. It's being able to escape, to catch up to my team, and to run flags with a bare minimum of stamina that makes Accelerate a must slot for me. It's a core part of my build, that speed. And unlike mist, I can continue to heal and purge and regen while it's going.

It'll never have the "oh sh*t" button instant survival capability that mist has, but it's gotten me out of a few binds.

katorga

Valdek wrote: »

Hi all. I'm really enjoying my magplar in pvp at the moment. However, I feel like they are perhaps a bit too strong and feel like they could be frustrating / upsetting other players at the moment. Thoughts?

Just wow. Frustrating / upsetting other players is the entire point of pvp, build theory crafting, and tactical game play. You leverage every advantage you have, try to mitigate or counter your opponent's advantages and exploit their weaknesses. How to do that is the essential subject of this entire thread.

Templar has a LOT of weaknesses and believe me the good pvp'ers know how to exploit it and win.

Minno

VirtualElizabeth wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

CyrusArya wrote: »

Valdek wrote: »

Hi all. I'm really enjoying my magplar in pvp at the moment. However, I feel like they are perhaps a bit too strong and feel like they could be frustrating / upsetting other players at the moment. Thoughts?

Strong, yes. Too strong? Not even close. If bad players being upset or frustrated was a basis for balance, then stamblade should have been nerfed over a year ago and yet here we are. Coddling snowflakes that refuse to learn and grow as players ruins the game.

You must be a pretty new if you think magplar is op compared to the stuff eso has seen over the years.

OP is getting something like a 9.3 effective weapon power against a 4k crit resist/30k resist/major protection build.
Can you guess what class can get that?

Let me guess and I think I have a 50/50 chance at being right! Stamden or Stamblade! Do I get a cookie?

A half of a Sithis Double-Stuffed Cookie© for you!

Checkmath

For the earlier post about which skill to drop: I would vote out accelerate, but thats only me.

For degeneration or structured entropy: I am running structured right now, slotted on my frontbar where I am squishier. This allows me to not get into execute range too fast when offensive. Also if I get pressured too much and really drop into execute, bar swapping to the defensive bar with lower health already makes me get out of execute due to having a higher percentage of health then. Again this is just me and my supoptimal play style :P

VirtualElizabeth

Minno wrote: »

VirtualElizabeth wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

CyrusArya wrote: »

Valdek wrote: »

Hi all. I'm really enjoying my magplar in pvp at the moment. However, I feel like they are perhaps a bit too strong and feel like they could be frustrating / upsetting other players at the moment. Thoughts?

Strong, yes. Too strong? Not even close. If bad players being upset or frustrated was a basis for balance, then stamblade should have been nerfed over a year ago and yet here we are. Coddling snowflakes that refuse to learn and grow as players ruins the game.

You must be a pretty new if you think magplar is op compared to the stuff eso has seen over the years.

OP is getting something like a 9.3 effective weapon power against a 4k crit resist/30k resist/major protection build.
Can you guess what class can get that?

Let me guess and I think I have a 50/50 chance at being right! Stamden or Stamblade! Do I get a cookie?

A half of a Sithis Double-Stuffed Cookie© for you!

Not a whole one????

technohic

Datolite wrote: »

I will have to find a spot for both, you guys make such good arguments for them!

Maybe purifying light can go on back bar...

Edit: Okay lineup time. I need you guys to vote off one ability.

Front: Sweeps, Clench, Radiant, Purifying, Drain
Back Ritual, Focus, Accelerate, Degeneration, HtD

And you can't say Radiant! That's my lag crutch skill...

Degeneration. Run spell power pots.

Reefo

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Datolite wrote: »

Hey so here's a question: if I have only room for one of these on my bar, which one should I choose? Vamp Bane or Elemental Drain?

If you're solo, both are important options. I personally choose bane for the crit, instant and dot dmg to help apply pressure to go offensive, and the snare is important for me especially vs mag as i don't run gap closers. I could use the dmg, but i don't think it increases my damage over 9 seconds that bane gives me. I don't need the regen typically but it helps. The crit is important for healing too. If you're in sets like me (trans/Deep throat) that crit is essential and is near a 30% increase to my crit percentage in cp, a massive increase in bgs.

Small group you can work out who should be applying it drain, typically it's not me. Only 1 person needs it unless you're just a group of players not really coordinating. Any magdens and stam blades in group means no one needs to run it.

Zerg, bane.

If i don't run an ice staff front bar i use both. With the choice i take bane.

LOL

Reefo

Datolite wrote: »

I will have to find a spot for both, you guys make such good arguments for them!

Maybe purifying light can go on back bar...

Edit: Okay lineup time. I need you guys to vote off one ability.

Front: Sweeps, Clench, Radiant, Purifying, Drain
Back Ritual, Focus, Accelerate, Degeneration, HtD

And you can't say Radiant! That's my lag crutch skill...

dont put vampires bane or reflective light coz you already got reach

Brutusmax1mus

Reefo wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Datolite wrote: »

Hey so here's a question: if I have only room for one of these on my bar, which one should I choose? Vamp Bane or Elemental Drain?

If you're solo, both are important options. I personally choose bane for the crit, instant and dot dmg to help apply pressure to go offensive, and the snare is important for me especially vs mag as i don't run gap closers. I could use the dmg, but i don't think it increases my damage over 9 seconds that bane gives me. I don't need the regen typically but it helps. The crit is important for healing too. If you're in sets like me (trans/Deep throat) that crit is essential and is near a 30% increase to my crit percentage in cp, a massive increase in bgs.

Small group you can work out who should be applying it drain, typically it's not me. Only 1 person needs it unless you're just a group of players not really coordinating. Any magdens and stam blades in group means no one needs to run it.

Zerg, bane.

If i don't run an ice staff front bar i use both. With the choice i take bane.

LOL

@Minno has full credit for that beauty

cazlonb16_ESO

Blowing unsuspecting targets up with Dark Flare is fun for a while, the overall usefulness of both a DF centric turret build as well as a more generic build incorporating DF into their rotation is fairly limited though. Just think about how often the skill pops up on your death recap - That's right, pretty much never. That should tell you something.

Brutusmax1mus

cazlonb16_ESO wrote: »

Blowing unsuspecting targets up with Dark Flare is fun for a while, the overall usefulness of both a DF centric turret build as well as a more generic build incorporating DF into their rotation is fairly limited though. Just think about how often the skill pops up on your death recap - That's right, pretty much never. That should tell you something.

I slot it over total dark in small group for the aoe defile more than the damage. Without the old empower i can't think of it the same regarding damage.

Jimmy_The_Fixer

cazlonb16_ESO wrote: »

Blowing unsuspecting targets up with Dark Flare is fun for a while, the overall usefulness of both a DF centric turret build as well as a more generic build incorporating DF into their rotation is fairly limited though. Just think about how often the skill pops up on your death recap - That's right, pretty much never. That should tell you something.

There's a lot of value in having a big hit at the end of a cast time, shortening the burst window gives the opponent less time to react to their dropping health bar, It's why lot of stam builds still use dizzyswing despite the fact the crushing weapon has higher DPS.

Major defile also make them spend more resources in order to stabilize their HP.

NBrookus

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

cazlonb16_ESO wrote: »

Blowing unsuspecting targets up with Dark Flare is fun for a while, the overall usefulness of both a DF centric turret build as well as a more generic build incorporating DF into their rotation is fairly limited though. Just think about how often the skill pops up on your death recap - That's right, pretty much never. That should tell you something.

I slot it over total dark in small group for the aoe defile more than the damage. Without the old empower i can't think of it the same regarding damage.

Which a stamden can provide for less magicka and without the channel.

The damage of DF is really good, but the channel is really dicey versus a decent opponent and very wonky in lag.

Brutusmax1mus

NBrookus wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

cazlonb16_ESO wrote: »

Blowing unsuspecting targets up with Dark Flare is fun for a while, the overall usefulness of both a DF centric turret build as well as a more generic build incorporating DF into their rotation is fairly limited though. Just think about how often the skill pops up on your death recap - That's right, pretty much never. That should tell you something.

I slot it over total dark in small group for the aoe defile more than the damage. Without the old empower i can't think of it the same regarding damage.

Which a stamden can provide for less magicka and without the channel.

The damage of DF is really good, but the channel is really dicey versus a decent opponent and very wonky in lag.

They could, but they have enough magicka buffs they need to use, asking them to stay buffed up and have 3k mag ready on command isn't always reliable. Especially with how easy to leave the area is. 1 dodge roll gets someone out so you can't even root them effectively. It's good area denial though. Ive mixed opinions on corrupting pollen. It should linger got 2 seconds after leaving imo. Pollens a pain to get off yourself after all.