Magplar PvP

Kartalin

My templars are all Bretons. But let's compare the Breton, Altmer, and Argonian passives.

Max Magicka: Altmer and Bretons get 10% while Argonians get 3%
Max Health: Argonians get 9%

This is not that big of a difference overall. Generally in PVP we have certain numbers we have in mind as far as where we would like our stats to be. We then adjust accordingly through armor enchants, food/drink, and jewelry traits. I think this does favor Altmer and Bretons because a higher max magicka can be achieved.

Bretons get 3% magicka cost reduction
Altmer get 9% magicka recovery
Argonians get the potion passive (4620 health/mag/stam)

From purely a magicka standpoint, I believe the cost reduction for Bretons is the winner, especially ever since cost reduction from light armor was nerfed (3% to 2% per light piece) and removed entirely from CP. What really makes a difference here is the additional health and stam that Argonians also receive by drinking a potion. So I would tilt this in favor of Argonians.

Breton's get an additional ~4k spell resist
Altmer get 4% elemental damage
Argonians get 5% healing done and received

These are two entirely different things so it's tough to make a comparison between the two. The Argonian passive kind of steers them into more of a dedicated healer role so if that's the way the character will usually be played then that is the preference. Altmer have more offensive capabilities. Ultimately I think it comes down to what works better for what you plan to do with the character.

However there's one last thing to consider:

Bretons, both male and female, are beautiful humanoid characters.
Altmer are stuck up racists.
Argonians are walking asthmatic handbags.

The choice is yours.
.
edit: added in Altmer

Jimmy_The_Fixer

Race changed to argonion a year ago, best $30 I ever spent. Healing done AND healing received? Potion passive that is a 100% reset button on resources if you use a tripot? Hp+max mag? Even the swim speed passive has saved me when fighting around that lake between Arrius and Farragut.

Breton cost reduction passive is significantly weaker than having just one (1) cost reduction enchant on one piece of jewelry. Spell resist is fully worthless against 50% of builds. Max magicka ok though, so Breton gets 1/3. Go dunmer or high elf if you hate lizards.

technohic

Nice thing about Argonian is if I go stam again, the passives are just as good there. I'm not a huge fan of chugging pots to get benefit as I'd prefer a playstyle where the pots are more effective but longer CD to where you think about when you actually are going to use them, but that's not how the game is, so I'm chugging pots on CD anyway. Might as well get that Argonian bonus.

CyrusArya

The only real point of contention to me is the health argonian gets. Health is such a powerful stat, and especially on magplar. I’m having no issues sustaining as a Breton and I think the healing is honestly irrelevant unless you’re a dedicated healer. Reason being, magplar relies on burst heals which are gonna be really strong regardless. Now on a build that uses more healing over time like a HoTblade or Magden, argonian is clearly the best choice. But on magplar it really only comes down to the health in my view. And I’d personally rather do more damage than be more survivable.

Likewise, if I played an mDK no way it wouldn’t be a dark elf.

Minno

Jimmy_The_Fixer wrote: »

Race changed to argonion a year ago, best $30 I ever spent. Healing done AND healing received? Potion passive that is a 100% reset button on resources if you use a tripot? Hp+max mag? Even the swim speed passive has saved me when fighting around that lake between Arrius and Farragut.

Breton cost reduction passive is significantly weaker than having just one (1) cost reduction enchant on one piece of jewelry. Spell resist is fully worthless against 50% of builds. Max magicka ok though, so Breton gets 1/3. Go dunmer or high elf if you hate lizards.

Here's another question, will you be using cost reduction enchants on a non-breton templar?

Also, it is a "free" passive versus losing out on 170 SD that gets boosted up by sorcery buffs for 200-ish cost reduction. Either way both require you to be casting on GCDs to make it the most beneficial. Argonian pot even with pot reduction enchants, is still locked behind 30 second cooldown. Clear pros/cons for each; the idea of balance.

Keep in mind healing done and healing received requires you to heal to get benefit from. I know that is a dumb statement but it is similar to the cost reduction above. Compared to the spell resists, breton does not have to cast anything to take less damage from mag based attacks (though they are subject to stamina attacks, but it was already said in CP pvp you can drop ele defender to boost up hardy/physical resist/thick skin/ironclad to compensate for this, especially in LA where you will be 1k less than spell resist cap.) And to boot, the extra max mag boosts the tooltip of your healing so it's basically the same passive.

Your racial pick, which showing you the way to how to play your class, really doesn't reduce your pvp experience. Unless you do something like pick wood elf and try to use it for a mag healer lol.

Minno

CyrusArya wrote: »

The only real point of contention to me is the health argonian gets. Health is such a powerful stat, and especially on magplar. I’m having no issues sustaining as a Breton and I think the healing is honestly irrelevant unless you’re a dedicated healer. Reason being, magplar relies on burst heals which are gonna be really strong regardless. Now on a build that uses more healing over time like a HoTblade or Magden, argonian is clearly the best choice. But on magplar it really only comes down to the health in my view. And I’d personally rather do more damage than be more survivable.

Likewise, if I played an mDK no way it wouldn’t be a dark elf.

that is why im kinda happy I changed to imperial. I might lose out on the cost reduction and spell resists, but I will get 12% health and 10% stamina so with tri food and skoria I'am sitting at 25-26k health/15k stamina in CP with full mag enchants. And red diamond procs off sweeps now, or anything melee so it isn't terrible, just unreliable for anything but a pve tank lol.

Ariades_swe

I'm thinking about switching back to Breton.
Can't stand the argonian look.

Mrsinister2

Ariades_swe wrote: »

I'm thinking about switching back to Breton.
Can't stand the argonian look.

Switching from high elf to argonian totally ruined the bad ass look I had going 2

Jimmy_The_Fixer

Minno wrote: »

Jimmy_The_Fixer wrote: »

Race changed to argonion a year ago, best $30 I ever spent. Healing done AND healing received? Potion passive that is a 100% reset button on resources if you use a tripot? Hp+max mag? Even the swim speed passive has saved me when fighting around that lake between Arrius and Farragut.

Breton cost reduction passive is significantly weaker than having just one (1) cost reduction enchant on one piece of jewelry. Spell resist is fully worthless against 50% of builds. Max magicka ok though, so Breton gets 1/3. Go dunmer or high elf if you hate lizards.

Here's another question, will you be using cost reduction enchants on a non-breton templar?

Also, it is a "free" passive versus losing out on 170 SD that gets boosted up by sorcery buffs for 200-ish cost reduction. Either way both require you to be casting on GCDs to make it the most beneficial. Argonian pot even with pot reduction enchants, is still locked behind 30 second cooldown. Clear pros/cons for each; the idea of balance.

Keep in mind healing done and healing received requires you to heal to get benefit from. I know that is a dumb statement but it is similar to the cost reduction above. Compared to the spell resists, breton does not have to cast anything to take less damage from mag based attacks (though they are subject to stamina attacks, but it was already said in CP pvp you can drop ele defender to boost up hardy/physical resist/thick skin/ironclad to compensate for this, especially in LA where you will be 1k less than spell resist cap.) And to boot, the extra max mag boosts the tooltip of your healing so it's basically the same passive.

Your racial pick, which showing you the way to how to play your class, really doesn't reduce your pvp experience. Unless you do something like pick wood elf and try to use it for a mag healer lol.

The argonion passive is 4500 every 45 seconds, i.e. ~200 mana regen is almost double the value of the regen enchant
Breton cost reduction isn't just weaker than the cost reduction enchant, it's much weaker (3% rebate on a 4K spell is around 120 which is way less than the cost enchant.
Comparing the passives to the value gained from Enchants is definitely a janky way of doing things but the two bonuses are completely out of balance according to stat budgeting that ZoS has put on their own items. And that's not even counting the fact that you get stam and health.

I get that people can function perfectly well with any race for any build, and I also get that argonions look pretty dumb. But that doesn't mean we need to pretend that all the racials are perfectly balanced and equally strong.

Minno

Jimmy_The_Fixer wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Jimmy_The_Fixer wrote: »

Race changed to argonion a year ago, best $30 I ever spent. Healing done AND healing received? Potion passive that is a 100% reset button on resources if you use a tripot? Hp+max mag? Even the swim speed passive has saved me when fighting around that lake between Arrius and Farragut.

Breton cost reduction passive is significantly weaker than having just one (1) cost reduction enchant on one piece of jewelry. Spell resist is fully worthless against 50% of builds. Max magicka ok though, so Breton gets 1/3. Go dunmer or high elf if you hate lizards.

Here's another question, will you be using cost reduction enchants on a non-breton templar?

Also, it is a "free" passive versus losing out on 170 SD that gets boosted up by sorcery buffs for 200-ish cost reduction. Either way both require you to be casting on GCDs to make it the most beneficial. Argonian pot even with pot reduction enchants, is still locked behind 30 second cooldown. Clear pros/cons for each; the idea of balance.

Keep in mind healing done and healing received requires you to heal to get benefit from. I know that is a dumb statement but it is similar to the cost reduction above. Compared to the spell resists, breton does not have to cast anything to take less damage from mag based attacks (though they are subject to stamina attacks, but it was already said in CP pvp you can drop ele defender to boost up hardy/physical resist/thick skin/ironclad to compensate for this, especially in LA where you will be 1k less than spell resist cap.) And to boot, the extra max mag boosts the tooltip of your healing so it's basically the same passive.

Your racial pick, which showing you the way to how to play your class, really doesn't reduce your pvp experience. Unless you do something like pick wood elf and try to use it for a mag healer lol.

The argonion passive is 4500 every 45 seconds, i.e. ~200 mana regen is almost double the value of the regen enchant
Breton cost reduction isn't just weaker than the cost reduction enchant, it's much weaker (3% rebate on a 4K spell is around 120 which is way less than the cost enchant.
Comparing the passives to the value gained from Enchants is definitely a janky way of doing things but the two bonuses are completely out of balance according to stat budgeting that ZoS has put on their own items. And that's not even counting the fact that you get stam and health.

4500 every 45 seconds is not 200 mag every 2 seconds. It's burst resource every 45 seconds. I know why you are mentioning it, but its closest equivalent is a tri-pot minus the regen buffs.

And we forget the breton passive stacks with other percentage cost reduction. Templar+breton+LA will equal something like 16% cost reduction on all your abilities (4% away from the 20% cost reduction everyone used to run when it was offered in CP a long time ago). Something no other race can get.

Edit:
And I am not discrediting Argonian as a strong race. I just think much of the Breton passive hate stems from PVE where DPS rules their feedback and it spills into PVP. There are pros/cons for both

Jimmy_The_Fixer

Minno wrote: »

Jimmy_The_Fixer wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Jimmy_The_Fixer wrote: »

Race changed to argonion a year ago, best $30 I ever spent. Healing done AND healing received? Potion passive that is a 100% reset button on resources if you use a tripot? Hp+max mag? Even the swim speed passive has saved me when fighting around that lake between Arrius and Farragut.

Breton cost reduction passive is significantly weaker than having just one (1) cost reduction enchant on one piece of jewelry. Spell resist is fully worthless against 50% of builds. Max magicka ok though, so Breton gets 1/3. Go dunmer or high elf if you hate lizards.

Here's another question, will you be using cost reduction enchants on a non-breton templar?

Also, it is a "free" passive versus losing out on 170 SD that gets boosted up by sorcery buffs for 200-ish cost reduction. Either way both require you to be casting on GCDs to make it the most beneficial. Argonian pot even with pot reduction enchants, is still locked behind 30 second cooldown. Clear pros/cons for each; the idea of balance.

Keep in mind healing done and healing received requires you to heal to get benefit from. I know that is a dumb statement but it is similar to the cost reduction above. Compared to the spell resists, breton does not have to cast anything to take less damage from mag based attacks (though they are subject to stamina attacks, but it was already said in CP pvp you can drop ele defender to boost up hardy/physical resist/thick skin/ironclad to compensate for this, especially in LA where you will be 1k less than spell resist cap.) And to boot, the extra max mag boosts the tooltip of your healing so it's basically the same passive.

Your racial pick, which showing you the way to how to play your class, really doesn't reduce your pvp experience. Unless you do something like pick wood elf and try to use it for a mag healer lol.

The argonion passive is 4500 every 45 seconds, i.e. ~200 mana regen is almost double the value of the regen enchant
Breton cost reduction isn't just weaker than the cost reduction enchant, it's much weaker (3% rebate on a 4K spell is around 120 which is way less than the cost enchant.
Comparing the passives to the value gained from Enchants is definitely a janky way of doing things but the two bonuses are completely out of balance according to stat budgeting that ZoS has put on their own items. And that's not even counting the fact that you get stam and health.

4500 every 45 seconds is not 200 mag every 2 seconds. It's burst resource every 45 seconds. I know why you are mentioning it, but its closest equivalent is a tri-pot minus the regen buffs.

And we forget the breton passive stacks with other percentage cost reduction. Templar+breton+LA will equal something like 16% cost reduction on all your abilities (4% away from the 20% cost reduction everyone used to run when it was offered in CP a long time ago). Something no other race can get.

I converted it into a stat because we need to way to quantify the amount that the passive aids your mana sustain. (Resourceful is actually much stronger since the nature of pvp would prefer a burst of resources on demand over slow continuous trickle)
Mentioning the LA and Templar bonuses is a Red Herring though, 16% cost reduction is a big rebate, but it has very little to do with the 3% that Breton actually gives.

Edit: The Breton bonuses are well within the bounds of viability. For example 10% max pool is a Very Good Bonus, extremely versatile. I just think that when you start scrutinizing the racials with a minmaxing mindset, argonion just gives the most value, and in ESO its very easy to convert any kind of value (survivability, resource return) into more power of any kind.

Brutusmax1mus

Resourceful is in a league of its own in regards to sustain passives.

Im surprised to see so many who think breton is even close to performance of argonian on magplar. It's not.

cazlonb16_ESO

Not a fan of the entire BIS by race and class thing and I've been Argonian Templar since shortly after release ( Started out as an Argonian Dk, but the class was probably the most OP in MMO history back then, so I ditched it ).

Adjustments need to be gradual though or we'll be straight back to swimming speed being the best we have. ZOS dumping massive changes on all sorts of game mechanics, new sets etc. at once is what causes the balance to swing so wildly ( well, other than stamina builds dominating in pvp for several cycles in a row now ).

The most important factor is the responsiveness you get from the servers however. In Cyrodiil I can not pull off the usual StamDen routine as the server will eat at least one ( more usually two ) of the actions. BGs are a different story and that proves the problem is not on my end.

Judging by the first footage of some certain other game I very much doubt it will be any better unfortunately.

Ariades_swe

Dw or lightning staff on a sweeps build now with the glyph changes?
I'm thinking about going back to my old dw/frost staff build.

Brutusmax1mus

Ariades_swe wrote: »

Dw or lightning staff on a sweeps build now with the glyph changes?
I'm thinking about going back to my old dw/frost staff build.

If you go dw make sure you run the damage/ stam regen glyph or reapplying it isn't practical. Essentially it gives you an extra damage portion (not boosted by cp bc it's physical dmg) but it's still something extra. I don't think this replaces light attack weaves from range though, i'm going staff.

Joy_Division

I think a lot of the assessments on the racial passives are confirmation bias. OK, most of the people commenting are very experienced magplars, thus probably do very well in their PvP, which thus reinforces their beliefs that their builds are competitive and strong.

I run the worst race possible and a magplar (Nord) and very rarely feel out-matched. It's not the race that working, it's my experience.

Any good player is going to make Breton or Altmer work, first and foremost because they are good, but also because these races are suited for magicka play-styles. Just because they aren't BiS, doesn't mean they are bad (unlike Nords!).

It's only when you are matched-up against equally experienced players with strong build do these small percentage differences begin to matter. Argonian is tailor made for a magplar because they typically don't run shields and thus need higher health (score Argonian), rely on healing for defense (double score Agonian), and have to keep on eye on their stam pool more so than most magicka classes bc/ block is important (score Argonian). Argonains are very versatile and it's kind of hard to make a bad build with them because their racial passives cover up potential gameplay mistakes. That in my opinion is a very strong feature when playing against good players who can put you in a disadvantageous position.

CatchMeTrolling

Argonian is bis in terms of overall play, good for balanced builds. Made an argonian Templar a long time ago before the bis train came along and everyone still loved High elfs. Albeit, I still feel it comes down to what you’re building for. I like to theorycraft so argonian isn’t bis with every build.

You can choose argonian, Breton, high elf, imperial (slept on) and Nord I guess if you want some specialized mitigation/tanky build. The 3 I’d recommend off top would be argonian, Breton and high elf. Argonian can have success with any build but not necessarily the best with every build. With high elf you can put together certain builds that damage can’t be matched with the other races, elemental is a good example and you might want to pve so there’s that as well. Then there’s Breton with the nice reduction and resistance, favorite race to run snb with because it compliments them so well. With skill buffs (rune making up for stam/mag bp for regen and damage) and new sets I’d argue Breton built correctly can be pretty powerful in this meta.

Currently have high elf and argonian, played Breton on my first account and played a little Nord. Still need to make an imperial. But anyways I’d say argonian is a solid all around race , although for certain specialized builds they might not be bis. You don’t have to use one Templar anyways so make multiple.

Datolite

Minno wrote: »

Jimmy_The_Fixer wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Jimmy_The_Fixer wrote: »

Race changed to argonion a year ago, best $30 I ever spent. Healing done AND healing received? Potion passive that is a 100% reset button on resources if you use a tripot? Hp+max mag? Even the swim speed passive has saved me when fighting around that lake between Arrius and Farragut.

Breton cost reduction passive is significantly weaker than having just one (1) cost reduction enchant on one piece of jewelry. Spell resist is fully worthless against 50% of builds. Max magicka ok though, so Breton gets 1/3. Go dunmer or high elf if you hate lizards.

Here's another question, will you be using cost reduction enchants on a non-breton templar?

Also, it is a "free" passive versus losing out on 170 SD that gets boosted up by sorcery buffs for 200-ish cost reduction. Either way both require you to be casting on GCDs to make it the most beneficial. Argonian pot even with pot reduction enchants, is still locked behind 30 second cooldown. Clear pros/cons for each; the idea of balance.

Keep in mind healing done and healing received requires you to heal to get benefit from. I know that is a dumb statement but it is similar to the cost reduction above. Compared to the spell resists, breton does not have to cast anything to take less damage from mag based attacks (though they are subject to stamina attacks, but it was already said in CP pvp you can drop ele defender to boost up hardy/physical resist/thick skin/ironclad to compensate for this, especially in LA where you will be 1k less than spell resist cap.) And to boot, the extra max mag boosts the tooltip of your healing so it's basically the same passive.

Your racial pick, which showing you the way to how to play your class, really doesn't reduce your pvp experience. Unless you do something like pick wood elf and try to use it for a mag healer lol.

The argonion passive is 4500 every 45 seconds, i.e. ~200 mana regen is almost double the value of the regen enchant
Breton cost reduction isn't just weaker than the cost reduction enchant, it's much weaker (3% rebate on a 4K spell is around 120 which is way less than the cost enchant.
Comparing the passives to the value gained from Enchants is definitely a janky way of doing things but the two bonuses are completely out of balance according to stat budgeting that ZoS has put on their own items. And that's not even counting the fact that you get stam and health.

4500 every 45 seconds is not 200 mag every 2 seconds. It's burst resource every 45 seconds. I know why you are mentioning it, but its closest equivalent is a tri-pot minus the regen buffs.

And we forget the breton passive stacks with other percentage cost reduction. Templar+breton+LA will equal something like 16% cost reduction on all your abilities (4% away from the 20% cost reduction everyone used to run when it was offered in CP a long time ago). Something no other race can get.

Edit:
And I am not discrediting Argonian as a strong race. I just think much of the Breton passive hate stems from PVE where DPS rules their feedback and it spills into PVP. There are pros/cons for both

Something no one's really accounting for is all the wasted burst of the Argonian passive. Half of the time, if you're using spell damage or immovable pots for example, you pop them before a fight... when you're at full health/stats.

Mrsinister2

Having really good luck with full tristat bright throat, spinners and 1 domi 1 pirate skelly.

Damge and sustain are great i got 35k mag and I'm running 2 swift. It's also extremely satisfying chewing up a sorcs shields

raasdal

Datolite wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Jimmy_The_Fixer wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Jimmy_The_Fixer wrote: »

Race changed to argonion a year ago, best $30 I ever spent. Healing done AND healing received? Potion passive that is a 100% reset button on resources if you use a tripot? Hp+max mag? Even the swim speed passive has saved me when fighting around that lake between Arrius and Farragut.

Breton cost reduction passive is significantly weaker than having just one (1) cost reduction enchant on one piece of jewelry. Spell resist is fully worthless against 50% of builds. Max magicka ok though, so Breton gets 1/3. Go dunmer or high elf if you hate lizards.

Here's another question, will you be using cost reduction enchants on a non-breton templar?

Also, it is a "free" passive versus losing out on 170 SD that gets boosted up by sorcery buffs for 200-ish cost reduction. Either way both require you to be casting on GCDs to make it the most beneficial. Argonian pot even with pot reduction enchants, is still locked behind 30 second cooldown. Clear pros/cons for each; the idea of balance.

Keep in mind healing done and healing received requires you to heal to get benefit from. I know that is a dumb statement but it is similar to the cost reduction above. Compared to the spell resists, breton does not have to cast anything to take less damage from mag based attacks (though they are subject to stamina attacks, but it was already said in CP pvp you can drop ele defender to boost up hardy/physical resist/thick skin/ironclad to compensate for this, especially in LA where you will be 1k less than spell resist cap.) And to boot, the extra max mag boosts the tooltip of your healing so it's basically the same passive.

Your racial pick, which showing you the way to how to play your class, really doesn't reduce your pvp experience. Unless you do something like pick wood elf and try to use it for a mag healer lol.

The argonion passive is 4500 every 45 seconds, i.e. ~200 mana regen is almost double the value of the regen enchant
Breton cost reduction isn't just weaker than the cost reduction enchant, it's much weaker (3% rebate on a 4K spell is around 120 which is way less than the cost enchant.
Comparing the passives to the value gained from Enchants is definitely a janky way of doing things but the two bonuses are completely out of balance according to stat budgeting that ZoS has put on their own items. And that's not even counting the fact that you get stam and health.

4500 every 45 seconds is not 200 mag every 2 seconds. It's burst resource every 45 seconds. I know why you are mentioning it, but its closest equivalent is a tri-pot minus the regen buffs.

And we forget the breton passive stacks with other percentage cost reduction. Templar+breton+LA will equal something like 16% cost reduction on all your abilities (4% away from the 20% cost reduction everyone used to run when it was offered in CP a long time ago). Something no other race can get.

Edit:
And I am not discrediting Argonian as a strong race. I just think much of the Breton passive hate stems from PVE where DPS rules their feedback and it spills into PVP. There are pros/cons for both

Something no one's really accounting for is all the wasted burst of the Argonian passive. Half of the time, if you're using spell damage or immovable pots for example, you pop them before a fight... when you're at full health/stats.

Well, it depends on playstyle. I recently looked through 4 complete BG's and checked each and every potion usage. I was almost never using it wasted. Even when i used a potion outside of combat, it would not be wasted, because i am NEVER at full resources. If i am at full resources, it means i am not properly buffed up to face combat instantly (ganked).

Jimmy_The_Fixer

Mrsinister2 wrote: »

Having really good luck with full tristat bright throat, spinners and 1 domi 1 pirate skelly.

Damge and sustain are great i got 35k mag and I'm running 2 swift. It's also extremely satisfying chewing up a sorcs shields

Solid build, but running mismatched monster sets is always less value than getting the full 2 piece.

Checkmath

Mrsinister2 wrote: »

Having really good luck with full tristat bright throat, spinners and 1 domi 1 pirate skelly.

Damge and sustain are great i got 35k mag and I'm running 2 swift. It's also extremely satisfying chewing up a sorcs shields

Well I ran that too to make up the squishiness from 5 light armor. But now I switched to protective jewelry, so that I can wear a full monsterset (I miss a little bit magicka instead).

Minno

Datolite wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Jimmy_The_Fixer wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Jimmy_The_Fixer wrote: »

Race changed to argonion a year ago, best $30 I ever spent. Healing done AND healing received? Potion passive that is a 100% reset button on resources if you use a tripot? Hp+max mag? Even the swim speed passive has saved me when fighting around that lake between Arrius and Farragut.

Breton cost reduction passive is significantly weaker than having just one (1) cost reduction enchant on one piece of jewelry. Spell resist is fully worthless against 50% of builds. Max magicka ok though, so Breton gets 1/3. Go dunmer or high elf if you hate lizards.

Here's another question, will you be using cost reduction enchants on a non-breton templar?

Also, it is a "free" passive versus losing out on 170 SD that gets boosted up by sorcery buffs for 200-ish cost reduction. Either way both require you to be casting on GCDs to make it the most beneficial. Argonian pot even with pot reduction enchants, is still locked behind 30 second cooldown. Clear pros/cons for each; the idea of balance.

Keep in mind healing done and healing received requires you to heal to get benefit from. I know that is a dumb statement but it is similar to the cost reduction above. Compared to the spell resists, breton does not have to cast anything to take less damage from mag based attacks (though they are subject to stamina attacks, but it was already said in CP pvp you can drop ele defender to boost up hardy/physical resist/thick skin/ironclad to compensate for this, especially in LA where you will be 1k less than spell resist cap.) And to boot, the extra max mag boosts the tooltip of your healing so it's basically the same passive.

Your racial pick, which showing you the way to how to play your class, really doesn't reduce your pvp experience. Unless you do something like pick wood elf and try to use it for a mag healer lol.

The argonion passive is 4500 every 45 seconds, i.e. ~200 mana regen is almost double the value of the regen enchant
Breton cost reduction isn't just weaker than the cost reduction enchant, it's much weaker (3% rebate on a 4K spell is around 120 which is way less than the cost enchant.
Comparing the passives to the value gained from Enchants is definitely a janky way of doing things but the two bonuses are completely out of balance according to stat budgeting that ZoS has put on their own items. And that's not even counting the fact that you get stam and health.

4500 every 45 seconds is not 200 mag every 2 seconds. It's burst resource every 45 seconds. I know why you are mentioning it, but its closest equivalent is a tri-pot minus the regen buffs.

And we forget the breton passive stacks with other percentage cost reduction. Templar+breton+LA will equal something like 16% cost reduction on all your abilities (4% away from the 20% cost reduction everyone used to run when it was offered in CP a long time ago). Something no other race can get.

Edit:
And I am not discrediting Argonian as a strong race. I just think much of the Breton passive hate stems from PVE where DPS rules their feedback and it spills into PVP. There are pros/cons for both

Something no one's really accounting for is all the wasted burst of the Argonian passive. Half of the time, if you're using spell damage or immovable pots for example, you pop them before a fight... when you're at full health/stats.

That is an issue with most pots, however. Like for speed, you sometimes pop it when you don't need it or pop it late when you needed it earlier.

Joy_Division wrote: »

I think a lot of the assessments on the racial passives are confirmation bias. OK, most of the people commenting are very experienced magplars, thus probably do very well in their PvP, which thus reinforces their beliefs that their builds are competitive and strong.

I run the worst race possible and a magplar (Nord) and very rarely feel out-matched. It's not the race that working, it's my experience.

Any good player is going to make Breton or Altmer work, first and foremost because they are good, but also because these races are suited for magicka play-styles. Just because they aren't BiS, doesn't mean they are bad (unlike Nords!).

It's only when you are matched-up against equally experienced players with strong build do these small percentage differences begin to matter. Argonian is tailor made for a magplar because they typically don't run shields and thus need higher health (score Argonian), rely on healing for defense (double score Agonian), and have to keep on eye on their stam pool more so than most magicka classes bc/ block is important (score Argonian). Argonains are very versatile and it's kind of hard to make a bad build with them because their racial passives cover up potential gameplay mistakes. That in my opinion is a very strong feature when playing against good players who can put you in a disadvantageous position.

That is all I am saying .

and @CatchMeTrolling said it best, sometimes the racial selection can sometimes dictate the gear setup you will eventually run with (breton with defense weapons, dirty elves with destro staff/force pulse, argonian for overall flexibility, imperial for high health/high stam, etc.

Lots of options this patch, just overshadowed by the enchant "I'm a light attack lazy pug" meta.

Minno

Checkmath wrote: »

Mrsinister2 wrote: »

Having really good luck with full tristat bright throat, spinners and 1 domi 1 pirate skelly.

Damge and sustain are great i got 35k mag and I'm running 2 swift. It's also extremely satisfying chewing up a sorcs shields

Well I ran that too to make up the squishiness from 5 light armor. But now I switched to protective jewelry, so that I can wear a full monsterset (I miss a little bit magicka instead).

Yea, if you don't have 38k-3000sd then you almost need a DMG monster helm or other set to make up the difference.

I do like the Domi/pirate combo. Let's you choose other traits besides protective. Another is ice staff front bar (gives me 18-20k physical) so you can run full mag traits as well.

Mrsinister2

Jimmy_The_Fixer wrote: »

Mrsinister2 wrote: »

Having really good luck with full tristat bright throat, spinners and 1 domi 1 pirate skelly.

Damge and sustain are great i got 35k mag and I'm running 2 swift. It's also extremely satisfying chewing up a sorcs shields

Solid build, but running mismatched monster sets is always less value than getting the full 2 piece.

Yea I agree I might just do bloodspawn for the resists proc and Stam regen.

Checkmath wrote: »

Mrsinister2 wrote: »

Having really good luck with full tristat bright throat, spinners and 1 domi 1 pirate skelly.

Damge and sustain are great i got 35k mag and I'm running 2 swift. It's also extremely satisfying chewing up a sorcs shields

Well I ran that too to make up the squishiness from 5 light armor. But now I switched to protective jewelry, so that I can wear a full monsterset (I miss a little bit magicka instead).

I've done that 2 but I feel like even nerfed swift really helps magplar especially clumsy/not great magplars like me

Checkmath

Mrsinister2 wrote: »

Jimmy_The_Fixer wrote: »

Mrsinister2 wrote: »

Having really good luck with full tristat bright throat, spinners and 1 domi 1 pirate skelly.

Damge and sustain are great i got 35k mag and I'm running 2 swift. It's also extremely satisfying chewing up a sorcs shields

Solid build, but running mismatched monster sets is always less value than getting the full 2 piece.

Yea I agree I might just do bloodspawn for the resists proc and Stam regen.

Checkmath wrote: »

Mrsinister2 wrote: »

Having really good luck with full tristat bright throat, spinners and 1 domi 1 pirate skelly.

Damge and sustain are great i got 35k mag and I'm running 2 swift. It's also extremely satisfying chewing up a sorcs shields

Well I ran that too to make up the squishiness from 5 light armor. But now I switched to protective jewelry, so that I can wear a full monsterset (I miss a little bit magicka instead).

I've done that 2 but I feel like even nerfed swift really helps magplar especially clumsy/not great magplars like me

I also play a lot of non cp (bgs and sotha sil open world), where Skoria just is toooooooo nice....better than one domihaus and one pirate skelly.

Datolite

Checkmath wrote: »

Mrsinister2 wrote: »

Jimmy_The_Fixer wrote: »

Mrsinister2 wrote: »

Having really good luck with full tristat bright throat, spinners and 1 domi 1 pirate skelly.

Damge and sustain are great i got 35k mag and I'm running 2 swift. It's also extremely satisfying chewing up a sorcs shields

Solid build, but running mismatched monster sets is always less value than getting the full 2 piece.

Yea I agree I might just do bloodspawn for the resists proc and Stam regen.

Checkmath wrote: »

Mrsinister2 wrote: »

Having really good luck with full tristat bright throat, spinners and 1 domi 1 pirate skelly.

Damge and sustain are great i got 35k mag and I'm running 2 swift. It's also extremely satisfying chewing up a sorcs shields

Well I ran that too to make up the squishiness from 5 light armor. But now I switched to protective jewelry, so that I can wear a full monsterset (I miss a little bit magicka instead).

I've done that 2 but I feel like even nerfed swift really helps magplar especially clumsy/not great magplars like me

I also play a lot of non cp (bgs and sotha sil open world), where Skoria just is toooooooo nice....better than one domihaus and one pirate skelly.

A little unrelated, but do you find Sotha is populated enough for day to day pvp? Are there solid guilds around? I much prefer noCP pvp but am wondering if it's worth the switch.

Mrsinister2

Checkmath wrote: »

Mrsinister2 wrote: »

Jimmy_The_Fixer wrote: »

Mrsinister2 wrote: »

Having really good luck with full tristat bright throat, spinners and 1 domi 1 pirate skelly.

Damge and sustain are great i got 35k mag and I'm running 2 swift. It's also extremely satisfying chewing up a sorcs shields

Solid build, but running mismatched monster sets is always less value than getting the full 2 piece.

Yea I agree I might just do bloodspawn for the resists proc and Stam regen.

Checkmath wrote: »

Mrsinister2 wrote: »

Having really good luck with full tristat bright throat, spinners and 1 domi 1 pirate skelly.

Damge and sustain are great i got 35k mag and I'm running 2 swift. It's also extremely satisfying chewing up a sorcs shields

Well I ran that too to make up the squishiness from 5 light armor. But now I switched to protective jewelry, so that I can wear a full monsterset (I miss a little bit magicka instead).

I've done that 2 but I feel like even nerfed swift really helps magplar especially clumsy/not great magplars like me

I also play a lot of non cp (bgs and sotha sil open world), where Skoria just is toooooooo nice....better than one domihaus and one pirate skelly.

Honestly no matter what build i do I always end up back with skoria eventually you just can't Beat it.

TheDoomsdayMonster

Mrsinister2 wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

Mrsinister2 wrote: »

Jimmy_The_Fixer wrote: »

Mrsinister2 wrote: »

Having really good luck with full tristat bright throat, spinners and 1 domi 1 pirate skelly.

Damge and sustain are great i got 35k mag and I'm running 2 swift. It's also extremely satisfying chewing up a sorcs shields

Solid build, but running mismatched monster sets is always less value than getting the full 2 piece.

Yea I agree I might just do bloodspawn for the resists proc and Stam regen.

Checkmath wrote: »

Mrsinister2 wrote: »

Having really good luck with full tristat bright throat, spinners and 1 domi 1 pirate skelly.

Damge and sustain are great i got 35k mag and I'm running 2 swift. It's also extremely satisfying chewing up a sorcs shields

Well I ran that too to make up the squishiness from 5 light armor. But now I switched to protective jewelry, so that I can wear a full monsterset (I miss a little bit magicka instead).

I've done that 2 but I feel like even nerfed swift really helps magplar especially clumsy/not great magplars like me

I also play a lot of non cp (bgs and sotha sil open world), where Skoria just is toooooooo nice....better than one domihaus and one pirate skelly.

Honestly no matter what build i do I always end up back with skoria eventually you just can't Beat it.

I feel the same way about Mighty Chudan...

No matter what else I try (Monster Helm wise) I end up back at Chudan...

It's just the best set available for what I do...

Datolite

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

Mrsinister2 wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

Mrsinister2 wrote: »

Jimmy_The_Fixer wrote: »

Mrsinister2 wrote: »

Having really good luck with full tristat bright throat, spinners and 1 domi 1 pirate skelly.

Damge and sustain are great i got 35k mag and I'm running 2 swift. It's also extremely satisfying chewing up a sorcs shields

Solid build, but running mismatched monster sets is always less value than getting the full 2 piece.

Yea I agree I might just do bloodspawn for the resists proc and Stam regen.

Checkmath wrote: »

Mrsinister2 wrote: »

Having really good luck with full tristat bright throat, spinners and 1 domi 1 pirate skelly.

Damge and sustain are great i got 35k mag and I'm running 2 swift. It's also extremely satisfying chewing up a sorcs shields

Well I ran that too to make up the squishiness from 5 light armor. But now I switched to protective jewelry, so that I can wear a full monsterset (I miss a little bit magicka instead).

I've done that 2 but I feel like even nerfed swift really helps magplar especially clumsy/not great magplars like me

I also play a lot of non cp (bgs and sotha sil open world), where Skoria just is toooooooo nice....better than one domihaus and one pirate skelly.

Honestly no matter what build i do I always end up back with skoria eventually you just can't Beat it.

I feel the same way about Mighty Chudan...

No matter what else I try (Monster Helm wise) I end up back at Chudan...

It's just the best set available for what I do...

And no matter how many times I hear a templar say Mighty Chudan, I can't help but remind them they have a mag and stam morph of a skill that provides those major buffs plus regen for 20 seconds.

20 seconds.