Magplar PvP

BNOC

technohic wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Why are magplars so popular anyways? Every time i fight one they just tickle, the only time they're a threat is when you drop low and they use the beam. They are the only class you can just ignore and go about your business because you can't kill them but they don't do any dmg neither. Other than that their self healing seems a bit strong, but that doesn't warrant a 47 page thread.

Troll level - preschool

Actually, I have to say the majority of magplars I fight hit my light armor not very defensive build for 400 damage on their sweeps. Most magplars out there build not to die rather than to kill.

I do agree it is an attempt at trolling, but there is some truth to that post.

Yeah that's usually the pocket healers trying to fight.

It's not even just pocket healers, it's legit guys who consider themselves dd.

On Xbox EU, if you go to Auridon(Our main duel spot atm and what you'd imagine is, players that want to fight) you'll scout plenty of Templars, but I can guarantee that every single one will play to survive rather than to kill - Before this patch they were all in Riposte, SnB, full turtle; now it's the closest equivalent they can get their hands on - I understand duelling may be a bad example as these builds do alright in zergs and groups but it's the most obvious example of someone who wants to fight (to win, hopefully) but never actually does enough damage.

The personal problem seems to be either fear of trying something different or lack of class knowledge to do anything other than that which they're doing - In the bigger picture, we could do with more damage but these are people that don't even try.
These are people that think the only option is to block & heal until you get your ult and give that a go.

Kartalin

.

BNOC wrote: »

These are people that think the only option is to block & heal until you get your ult and give that a go.

...and then get CC'd mid-rotation and have to start over again.

Datolite

Minno wrote: »

Datolite wrote: »

Synozeer wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Datolite wrote: »

I'm starting to miss the benefits of vampire more and more...

In your opinion guys, do you see it as a must-have for high level pvp?

Vamp gives you:
- Cheap stun with 10% minor expedition
- AOE ultimate that heals you
- one button snare removal, 75% dmg "block" and reposition tool to escape
- 10% mag/stam regen

non-vamp gives you:
- major exp spell with 10 second minor force (plus block shield passive)
- forward momentum snare removal that doesnt lock your mag regen (but requires 2h)
- less dawnbreaker damage and less fire damage (you always take those on incoming damage)
- if you use 2h, you can use the ultimate to get 8 seconds of cc immunity and stam regen on kills. But you can run this with vamp as well.

I think its preference. If you like light attack damage, don't use non-vamp because then youll have to backbar 2h with an offense staff.

Vamp has a big negative though - you're pasty white and veiny unless you use a skin or armor that covers you up entirely.

Have to say, this is literally the only reason I haven't done it on my magplar lol.

I run it on my magblade, magdk and even my stamdk pve tank for passives but I can't bring myself to do it on templar!

I have vamp now, and tried it to compare again. Lol I am not sure they will keep "mist form block cancel but retain major speed" for much longer. I will probably keep vamp on and drink blood mara if I want to go back to race against time.

The cheap single target stun is greatly needed and the extra tankiness at low health works with our passives. Having both speed and snare removal on one ability is also handy. They really need to make race against time have major sorcery so templars wanting to run that can deslot degeneration.

That might be asking a bit much (I think they have handed out all their Major buff cookies), but Accelerate in general does need a bit of love. I'd just be happy if they increase duration by 25% on both morphs, or maybe a 3 sec snare immunity on RAT. Just make it a competitor to mist form.

SugaComa

Joy_Division wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Why are magplars so popular anyways? Every time i fight one they just tickle, the only time they're a threat is when you drop low and they use the beam. They are the only class you can just ignore and go about your business because you can't kill them but they don't do any dmg neither. Other than that their self healing seems a bit strong, but that doesn't warrant a 47 page thread.

Troll level - preschool

Actually, I have to say the majority of magplars I fight hit my light armor not very defensive build for 400 damage on their sweeps. Most magplars out there build not to die rather than to kill.

I do agree it is an attempt at trolling, but there is some truth to that post.

While I get for the majority that's true ... Here we have 47 pages of a very small select few who seem to play their Templar in a way that goes against the norm ...

Bouncing ideas off of each other so we can change the way others see Templar ...

From a... Damn a Templar , ignore him

To .. shiiiiiitttt a Templar .... Kill him before he kills you.

Joy_Division

Probably most frustrating thing abut magplars and what I think builds need to take into account.

I got into a fight with these 2 stam (tanky) DKs and while I'd like to think I controlled the fight more than they did, I couldn't get a kill on one of them. Went on for 5 minutes and ended in a draw (I left, they didn't follow). Stats below:

Incoming damage:


Outgoing damage:


This is probably endemic to ESO as the nerfs, CP inflation, and introduction of powerful DLC gear has made it relatively easier to build not to die than to kill. As a templar, the two best skills in my kit for high damage, Radiant Destruction and Purifying Light, require me to go extended periods of time without defending myself or getting interrupted, which is difficult to do in an outnumbered situation on a Magplar because we have to switch to defense constantly, and Vs a class like DK (or 2!) that can easily auto-stun you with fossilize on cooldown (It must be nice to have such a skill and it must be nice to be a mobile class not not be stuck in melee but I digress).

This is one of the reasons I think Valkyn Skoria is the strongest option on a Magplar, because it can put out the damage you need while you are on your shield bar or breaking free from CCs trying not to die. This is also the reason I'm not thrilled with Radiant Destruction and would pay real money to have Blinding Flashes back in it's place. I tried RDing once that fight and of course got wrecking blowed or bashed while doing so and was in essence fighting with 9 skills. I know in an ideal situation and in PvE RD can be really strong, but the times I am in most need of a high damage skill to finish off an opponent in a competitive situation where I also must defend myself, it too often fails in its function.

So I think build choice should strive to avoid this stalemate situation in which multiple opponents can easily CC you on cooldown and threaten your health bar enough that you must constantly switch to defense. The class kit doesn't make it easy. If you are by yourself, I would recommend Total Dark as a morph choice since in a 1v2, at least one of your opponents wont CC break this and thus will get you more kills by keeping you alive than Unstable Core's explosion effect. I felt that if I had a true burst ulti, there were occasions I would have finished one of them off. Hopefully Crescent will allow for this, but I worry about the limited range, its awful habit of missing, and the short directional pulse on an immobile class. We'll see. I also think it would have been *really* nice to have the old Blazing Spear here in that I could actually CC one of these annoying fossilizing DKs (and unstable Core the other), which would have done a heck of a lot more for me that RD as it would actually be a skill I used that had a legit function and also would put an AOE field with Burning Light procs that would give me the more burst I needed.

Mrsinister2

I don't run beam and get annoyed by soul assault for all those reason listed above.


If I even run a excute I actually went for radiant glory for the heal during the channel. It can actually allow you to finish the channel at times without dropping into excute range yourself.

CatchMeTrolling

The average Templar hits like a wet noodle because the majority builds defensively or as Healbots. *** dds was never really common but magplars have definitely strayed even further from it ever since morrowind. The decline started with the nerf to proxy det which was a vital skill at the time for damage dealers combined with bats.

I run damage builds with snb/destro or dw front bar. I generally prefer snb as the main bar because it makes up for a lot of squishness light armor magplar has. And that’s the thing most damage builds will be squishy and take some practice to get used to (ran them mostly since 2015) so it can be a turn off since a lot of people hate dying. Once you get accustomed to it you’ll have sweeps that hit like a truck, which throws people off because they don’t expect it.

Kartalin

Joy_Division wrote: »

This is also the reason I'm not thrilled with Radiant Destruction and would pay real money to have Blinding Flashes back in it's place. I tried RDing once that fight and of course got wrecking blowed or bashed while doing so and was in essence fighting with 9 skills. I know in an ideal situation and in PvE RD can be really strong, but the times I am in most need of a high damage skill to finish off an opponent in a competitive situation where I also must defend myself, it too often fails in its function.

If you are by yourself, I would recommend Total Dark as a morph choice since in a 1v2, at least one of your opponents wont CC break this and thus will get you more kills by keeping you alive than Unstable Core's explosion effect.

This is precisely why I run Total Dark in place of where I'd normally slot RD. At the very least you can slow an opponent down while they break free and put their attack on hold and try to turn the tables and put them on the defensive.

TheDoomsdayMonster

Joy_Division wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Why are magplars so popular anyways? Every time i fight one they just tickle, the only time they're a threat is when you drop low and they use the beam. They are the only class you can just ignore and go about your business because you can't kill them but they don't do any dmg neither. Other than that their self healing seems a bit strong, but that doesn't warrant a 47 page thread.

Troll level - preschool

Actually, I have to say the majority of magplars I fight hit my light armor not very defensive build for 400 damage on their sweeps. Most magplars out there build not to die rather than to kill.

I do agree it is an attempt at trolling, but there is some truth to that post.

It's gotta be pure healers with no emphasis whatsoever on offense if that's all they are getting with Sweeps...

Even with 3 Defensive Sets I hit Heavy Armor/7 Impend opponents for 1k+ per sweep on average...

Minno

Kartalin wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

This is also the reason I'm not thrilled with Radiant Destruction and would pay real money to have Blinding Flashes back in it's place. I tried RDing once that fight and of course got wrecking blowed or bashed while doing so and was in essence fighting with 9 skills. I know in an ideal situation and in PvE RD can be really strong, but the times I am in most need of a high damage skill to finish off an opponent in a competitive situation where I also must defend myself, it too often fails in its function.

If you are by yourself, I would recommend Total Dark as a morph choice since in a 1v2, at least one of your opponents wont CC break this and thus will get you more kills by keeping you alive than Unstable Core's explosion effect.

This is precisely why I run Total Dark in place of where I'd normally slot RD. At the very least you can slow an opponent down while they break free and put their attack on hold and try to turn the tables and put them on the defensive.

If you don't use valkyn, you do however need Unstable Core. For Me I think the defense templar needs going this route is trans+1pc pirate or chudan. Then run full SD on jewels with 1pc kena or balourghs to put you at 4k SD with beserker (2h). I am also running accelerating drain with 1 purple swift and bats front bar to aid in jabs dmg while also healing me (the healing ultimate templars should of had).

otherwise valkyn+total dark is certainly the better option.

TheDoomsdayMonster

Screw Radiant Destruction...

IMHO, the ability is only really good if you are Xv1 against someone or if you are in a large group defending/assaulting a Keep and hell is breaking loose...

As a result, its been a long, long, time since it's been on my tool bar and it won't be there for the foreseeable future...

Heck, I have a build where Accelerating Drain hits harder than Radiant Destruction (I've seen it tick for 5k+ every tick against a squishy opponent)...


Anyway, Soul Assault is my execute (and sometimes Devouring Swarm depending on what specific build I'm running)...

Soul Assault is far superior to Radiant Destruction damage wise AND Soul Assault grants stun immunity during the channel (so when you are executing an opponent you can't be interrupted which is perfect)...

DeadlyRecluse

Eh, Radiant is a great execute in PvP if (and pretty much only if) you're securing the kill on the first or second tick. I basically pretend the rest of the channel doesn't exist--if the first or second tick doesn't kill them, they are usually healed out of execute anyway.

It's the only way, in some situations, to close out a fight on a high mobility opponent with lots of dodgerolls. And it's fantastic on gankplar due to the timing on your burst combos, but that's a very different playstyle.

Brutusmax1mus

I like to assume everyone's a good player when i slot skills. They aren't though. Some are better than me or equally skilled, while others are easily beaten. Radiant destruction is for the baddies, and does pull some weight vs ranged players. It's found a spot on my bar again, depending on what im out to do.

Syiccal

radiant wasn't on my bars for a long while , but it again has found a spot on my bar. You have to play smart with it though due to cost. I try to use at 30% and less and unless they have great heals or shield stack like a mofo they will die generally

danno8

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Why are magplars so popular anyways? Every time i fight one they just tickle, the only time they're a threat is when you drop low and they use the beam. They are the only class you can just ignore and go about your business because you can't kill them but they don't do any dmg neither. Other than that their self healing seems a bit strong, but that doesn't warrant a 47 page thread.

Troll level - preschool

Actually, I have to say the majority of magplars I fight hit my light armor not very defensive build for 400 damage on their sweeps. Most magplars out there build not to die rather than to kill.

I do agree it is an attempt at trolling, but there is some truth to that post.

It's gotta be pure healers with no emphasis whatsoever on offense if that's all they are getting with Sweeps...

Even with 3 Defensive Sets I hit Heavy Armor/7 Impend opponents for 1k+ per sweep on average...

I think he means per hit (so 4*400).

And yah, for 4 years I played a DW offensive Magplar, usually with Resto or Destro on the back. There was a brief foray with S+B in the beginning months, since everyone was running S+B and Rest (since it gave extra damage at the time, lol.)

It's only in the last month I adopted the S+B again, and am running 2 defensive sets and Skoria. The difference in survivability when facing more than 1 opponent is remarkable and I get why everyone does it. It's also nice to not be lit up by random Stamblades.

Still, it's less fun not getting the kills I can get going full offensive. Like I have said before, Magplar is probably the class that has to give up the most potential defense to go offensive, and the most potential offense to go defensive.

Note that I keep my offensive gear one click away with Dressing Room and still change it up frequently. PvP is about killing, not living forever IMO.

DeadlyRecluse

danno8 wrote: »

Still, it's less fun not getting the kills I can get going full offensive. Like I have said before, Magplar is probably the class that has to give up the most potential defense to go offensive, and the most potential offense to go defensive.

This is honestly why I went full damage for the past couple patches when playing solo. It's more fun to get kills, even if it means I technically "lose" more fights.

Brutusmax1mus

Well, if you build to survive outnumbered, and you fight someone who is built to survive outnumbered, it going to come down to mistakes. Or lag. More often lag.

Elong

I do use Radiant, as it's helpful to finish off that dodgerolling NB or maintain pressure on someone beating up on a friend. It's certainly the worst execute in the game though. I'd like to drop it but everytime I do a stam player gets away from me with 10% HP left and gets to reset the fight.

Minno

Elong wrote: »

I do use Radiant, as it's helpful to finish off that dodgerolling NB or maintain pressure on someone beating up on a friend. It's certainly the worst execute in the game though. I'd like to drop it but everytime I do a stam player gets away from me with 10% HP left and gets to reset the fight.

Now you know why I use unstable core

Elong

Minno wrote: »

Elong wrote: »

I do use Radiant, as it's helpful to finish off that dodgerolling NB or maintain pressure on someone beating up on a friend. It's certainly the worst execute in the game though. I'd like to drop it but everytime I do a stam player gets away from me with 10% HP left and gets to reset the fight.

Now you know why I use unstable core

Yeah I really need to give it an extended run.

Brutusmax1mus

Elong wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Elong wrote: »

I do use Radiant, as it's helpful to finish off that dodgerolling NB or maintain pressure on someone beating up on a friend. It's certainly the worst execute in the game though. I'd like to drop it but everytime I do a stam player gets away from me with 10% HP left and gets to reset the fight.

Now you know why I use unstable core

Yeah I really need to give it an extended run.

It's a good skill, needs its detonation time reduced imo.

MaxJrFTW

Minno wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Why are magplars so popular anyways? Every time i fight one they just tickle, the only time they're a threat is when you drop low and they use the beam. They are the only class you can just ignore and go about your business because you can't kill them but they don't do any dmg neither. Other than that their self healing seems a bit strong, but that doesn't warrant a 47 page thread.

Troll level - preschool

Or i just had a legitimate question, and was seeking an answer...

MaxJrFTW

Double post...

Mrsinister2

I dropped to one swift and I hate it already but nerfs are coming so I figured Id prepare early.

I did 2 protective in its place and so far the extra resistence seems pretty nice but still not sure it's totally worth it over arcane or triune.

Brutusmax1mus

Mrsinister2 wrote: »

I dropped to one swift and I hate it already but nerfs are coming so I figured Id prepare early.

I did 2 protective in its place and so far the extra resistence seems pretty nice but still not sure it's totally worth it over arcane or triune.

Although protective does both resistance types, it's value is not quite high enough to make me choose it over triune, especially on an amber/shackle heavy build.

danno8

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Why are magplars so popular anyways? Every time i fight one they just tickle, the only time they're a threat is when you drop low and they use the beam. They are the only class you can just ignore and go about your business because you can't kill them but they don't do any dmg neither. Other than that their self healing seems a bit strong, but that doesn't warrant a 47 page thread.

Troll level - preschool

Or i just had a legitimate question, and was seeking an answer...

Well to answer your question then...

47 pages is because Templar is probably the toughest class in the game to build for when it comes to being both survivable and able to reliably secure a kill. That's why there is so much discussion and variability in sets and skills.

You won't find as much discussion in say a similar NB thread, since similar tradeoffs between offense and defense are not nearly as pronounced.

It also seems like you have only run into defensive Magplars, which isn't too surprising. If you run into offensively geared ones, trust me, they can kill you, but you can just as easily kill them too.

xGhost91x

@danno8 Well put. If anything, this thread has shown me that Magicka Templars are quite possibly the most diverse class to play. I've been blown away by the sheer amount of information in this thread.

Datolite

Minno wrote: »

Elong wrote: »

I do use Radiant, as it's helpful to finish off that dodgerolling NB or maintain pressure on someone beating up on a friend. It's certainly the worst execute in the game though. I'd like to drop it but everytime I do a stam player gets away from me with 10% HP left and gets to reset the fight.

Now you know why I use unstable core

Does it still explode even after CC break?

Brutusmax1mus

Datolite wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Elong wrote: »

I do use Radiant, as it's helpful to finish off that dodgerolling NB or maintain pressure on someone beating up on a friend. It's certainly the worst execute in the game though. I'd like to drop it but everytime I do a stam player gets away from me with 10% HP left and gets to reset the fight.

Now you know why I use unstable core

Does it still explode even after CC break?

Yes, and you can reply the detonation portion even if they have cc immunity. It just doesn't reflect dmg.

Minno

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Datolite wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Elong wrote: »

I do use Radiant, as it's helpful to finish off that dodgerolling NB or maintain pressure on someone beating up on a friend. It's certainly the worst execute in the game though. I'd like to drop it but everytime I do a stam player gets away from me with 10% HP left and gets to reset the fight.

Now you know why I use unstable core

Does it still explode even after CC break?

Yes, and you can reply the detonation portion even if they have cc immunity. It just doesn't reflect dmg.

Yup. If your target uses cc immunity pots, it's a great skill to use. But it takes getting used to, especially since you need the burst but you need to cc targets.

I use it with accelerating drain. Because you'll get the DMG/heal, and still get the minor speed buff regardless of cc immunity. It's no fossilize, but you'll be able to spread players apart.