Magplar PvP

ledesertcroit

interesting, thanks!
I'd love to be able to spam flares in melee (and finally be a troll ;-) ), I don't even slot it anymore as (good) opponents never get hit by it. They dodge or interrupt (if they don't have wings.... damn wings). I had a guy laughing at me in chat after a duel for even attempting to Dark Flare him lol. I suppose I'd have to combo with Javelin... but then we're back to the ganking build. Hmm.
Still, I don't think I can give up two jewels worth of sustain (mag regen is at 1300 in no-cp right now and it's already a struggle).
I'll think of something.
Thanks again!

Ariades_swe

Mr_Nobody wrote: »

ledesertcroit wrote: »

@Mr_Nobody
So what build would you recommend with the three Swift?

3 swift, again, depends on your playstyle and what you like. Considering you will put everything into spell damage - running Pirate Skeleton and 2 light armor dps sets is what you want.

You can choose between the following:

O Surge, Rattlecage (extra spell slot, I use it for meditate), War Maidens, Julianos, Riposte (doesnt work too well with Pirate Skeleton though), Hist, Axiom, Bahrahas curse (lol, its actually good with Sweeps), the new Cyrodiil's Light (kickass good with beam and meditate equipped) and such.

Get at least 1 set that actually does something interesting and unique dps/control/debuff/buff wise.

This is true for my playstyle.
I mainly run solo and pretty much all my toons except my magsorc is in swift together with some kind of source of major expedition atm.

BNOC

Joy_Division wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

OK for those of you who like the set, but the 4th armor bonus of War Maiden is not a unique bonus the set possesses above and beyond the other sets, it replaces another bonus you could have had instead.

And if your weaving, those light attacks are being amped either.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the other sets have x2 crit, which in this meta is subpar for regen, dmg, or max stat?

So while the buff isn't unique, you're giving up like 2% crit for the spell damage, which is significantly better in PvP

Plus, that ... What... 500-1k additional heal isn't gonna make a difference to burst damage

At this point, people can choose to heed my advice or not. What I said was factual and I know that for my gameplay, I keep up Reflective Light, I am always weaving in light attacks, and that crit absolutely matters regardless of what is perceived of as "meta."

I stand by War Maiden as evident from builds and comments I've made throughout and believe it comes down to a play style thing - This sounds like a DW vs Destro conversation to me.

Comparing WM to Julies - I prefer the spell damage over crit. Crit to me is on the back burner, I'm not a heal bot and losing 3-6% in potential crit heals that ideally, you'd rarely be casting, isn't really detrimental to the aggressive style I like to adopt.

Light attacks aren't affected when you're using DW anyway, regardless of which set you opt for so if you're running DW that's not important.

Reflective light can be kept up but it's not your burst is it, just a component of that burst that doesn't need to be reapplied until it expires - Which leaves sweeps (for a dw build) as the primary concern when it comes to damage output - Sweeps are fully affected by War Maiden and there's no other set that gives you more damage for that, as with other skills.

All magic damage abilities

Toppling Charge
Sweeps
Javelin
Spear Shards
Radial Sweep
Sun Shield

Nova
Flare
POTL
Eclipse
Radiant

EDIT: Totally forgot Burning Light which is a big one.

Ritual

Entropy etc...

War Maiden has much more versatility than some of you are attributing it - Sure, using a destro, there's probably better options as light attacks can be factored in better and the spamable may not be the same (pulse) which changes everything imo.

It goes without saying that there's a difference between BG's and Cyrodil, obviously.
BG's you find people are grouped in funnels, or you can easily lead them to one, where less damage on your spamable just isn't optimal.
Cyrodil is different as the terrain isn't the same, but even then, are you tower farming? Then run sweeps and just clatter zerglings with extra damage, regardless of their CR or shields.
If you're open field and not as 'in the middle of it' using trees etc as LOS then throw a destro on, get more damage into your light attacks and a lower flat damage bonus across all Edit: non magic damage abilities.

DW vs Destro builds is the difference here for me.

DW & Sweeps = Yes WM.
Destro & Pulse = No WM.

Æterny

After a couple months break from the game i'm back now.
I was following the topic about the templar/set changes and had an idea about something interesting:

5-1-1 Heavy Impreg all Tri-stat Glyph
2 Zaan's/Skoria
5 Shackle Body
5 Axiom (3 Arcane Jewel with Regen)

Tri Stat Food or Witchmother's

DW Main Bar Nirn and Sharpened with Escapist's Poison:

Extended Ritual (I Like to have Dispell at hand while in offensive)
Structured Entropy
Toppling Charge
Sweeps
Purifying Light
Bats Ult


Nirn Inferno Back Bar (Weapon Damage enchant):

Channeled Focus
Honor the Dead
Total Dark / Elemental Drain / Repentance / Shards (Flex)
Radiant Oppresion
Vampire's Bane
Soul Assault

So, the idea of the build is to have one bar for Melee Engage and the other bar for ranged combat. Having a nice regen and a decent stat pool, but since i will have to hire someone to craft the Axiom stuff for me, its better to check here if the set is really that good.

Appreciate any help. Thanks

Datolite

BNOC wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

OK for those of you who like the set, but the 4th armor bonus of War Maiden is not a unique bonus the set possesses above and beyond the other sets, it replaces another bonus you could have had instead.

And if your weaving, those light attacks are being amped either.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the other sets have x2 crit, which in this meta is subpar for regen, dmg, or max stat?

So while the buff isn't unique, you're giving up like 2% crit for the spell damage, which is significantly better in PvP

Plus, that ... What... 500-1k additional heal isn't gonna make a difference to burst damage

At this point, people can choose to heed my advice or not. What I said was factual and I know that for my gameplay, I keep up Reflective Light, I am always weaving in light attacks, and that crit absolutely matters regardless of what is perceived of as "meta."

I stand by War Maiden as evident from builds and comments I've made throughout and believe it comes down to a play style thing - This sounds like a DW vs Destro conversation to me.

Comparing WM to Julies - I prefer the spell damage over crit. Crit to me is on the back burner, I'm not a heal bot and losing 3-6% in potential crit heals that ideally, you'd rarely be casting, isn't really detrimental to the aggressive style I like to adopt.

Light attacks aren't affected when you're using DW anyway, regardless of which set you opt for so if you're running DW that's not important.

Reflective light can be kept up but it's not your burst is it, just a component of that burst that doesn't need to be reapplied until it expires - Which leaves sweeps (for a dw build) as the primary concern when it comes to damage output - Sweeps are fully affected by War Maiden and there's no other set that gives you more damage for that, as with other skills.

All magic damage abilities

Toppling Charge
Sweeps
Javelin
Spear Shards
Radial Sweep
Sun Shield

Nova
Flare
POTL
Eclipse
Radiant

EDIT: Totally forgot Burning Light which is a big one.

Ritual

Entropy etc...

War Maiden has much more versatility than some of you are attributing it - Sure, using a destro, there's probably better options as light attacks can be factored in better and the spamable may not be the same (pulse) which changes everything imo.

It goes without saying that there's a difference between BG's and Cyrodil, obviously.
BG's you find people are grouped in funnels, or you can easily lead them to one, where less damage on your spamable just isn't optimal.
Cyrodil is different as the terrain isn't the same, but even then, are you tower farming? Then run sweeps and just clatter zerglings with extra damage, regardless of their CR or shields.
If you're open field and not as 'in the middle of it' using trees etc as LOS then throw a destro on, get more damage into your light attacks and a lower flat damage bonus across all Edit: non magic damage abilities.

DW vs Destro builds is the difference here for me.

DW & Sweeps = Yes WM.
Destro & Pulse = No WM.

My point exactly. For an aggressive melee BG build, WM is a great set. Sweeps, toppling charge, purifying light, even sometimes Jesus beam are my bread and butter skills. And as much as I hate trying to land Empowering Sweep, that Skelly/Axiom/WM build makes it damn tempting (small burst and potentially 60% damage reduction synergy! Really lets you get to work.)

Healing? Who needs it. Acceletate and reset the fight if you haven't already destroyed them. I started using Repentance as my main heal lol.

CatchMeTrolling

Lol.

BNOC

Æterny wrote: »

After a couple months break from the game i'm back now.
I was following the topic about the templar/set changes and had an idea about something interesting:

5-1-1 Heavy Impreg all Tri-stat Glyph
2 Zaan's/Skoria
5 Shackle Body
5 Axiom (3 Arcane Jewel with Regen)

Tri Stat Food or Witchmother's

DW Main Bar Nirn and Sharpened with Escapist's Poison:

Extended Ritual (I Like to have Dispell at hand while in offensive)
Structured Entropy
Toppling Charge
Sweeps
Purifying Light
Bats Ult


Nirn Inferno Back Bar (Weapon Damage enchant):

Channeled Focus
Honor the Dead
Total Dark / Elemental Drain / Repentance / Shards (Flex)
Radiant Oppresion
Vampire's Bane
Soul Assault

So, the idea of the build is to have one bar for Melee Engage and the other bar for ranged combat. Having a nice regen and a decent stat pool, but since i will have to hire someone to craft the Axiom stuff for me, its better to check here if the set is really that good.

Appreciate any help. Thanks

No offence but being a Vamp just for bats and 129 recovery isn't a worthwhile trade off to me.

You should probably use Citrus Fillets/WMPB as with tri stats and Shackle together, your stam will be through the roof.

datoliteb16_ESO wrote: »

BNOC wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

OK for those of you who like the set, but the 4th armor bonus of War Maiden is not a unique bonus the set possesses above and beyond the other sets, it replaces another bonus you could have had instead.

And if your weaving, those light attacks are being amped either.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the other sets have x2 crit, which in this meta is subpar for regen, dmg, or max stat?

So while the buff isn't unique, you're giving up like 2% crit for the spell damage, which is significantly better in PvP

Plus, that ... What... 500-1k additional heal isn't gonna make a difference to burst damage

At this point, people can choose to heed my advice or not. What I said was factual and I know that for my gameplay, I keep up Reflective Light, I am always weaving in light attacks, and that crit absolutely matters regardless of what is perceived of as "meta."

I stand by War Maiden as evident from builds and comments I've made throughout and believe it comes down to a play style thing - This sounds like a DW vs Destro conversation to me.

Comparing WM to Julies - I prefer the spell damage over crit. Crit to me is on the back burner, I'm not a heal bot and losing 3-6% in potential crit heals that ideally, you'd rarely be casting, isn't really detrimental to the aggressive style I like to adopt.

Light attacks aren't affected when you're using DW anyway, regardless of which set you opt for so if you're running DW that's not important.

Reflective light can be kept up but it's not your burst is it, just a component of that burst that doesn't need to be reapplied until it expires - Which leaves sweeps (for a dw build) as the primary concern when it comes to damage output - Sweeps are fully affected by War Maiden and there's no other set that gives you more damage for that, as with other skills.

All magic damage abilities

Toppling Charge
Sweeps
Javelin
Spear Shards
Radial Sweep
Sun Shield

Nova
Flare
POTL
Eclipse
Radiant

EDIT: Totally forgot Burning Light which is a big one.

Ritual

Entropy etc...

War Maiden has much more versatility than some of you are attributing it - Sure, using a destro, there's probably better options as light attacks can be factored in better and the spamable may not be the same (pulse) which changes everything imo.

It goes without saying that there's a difference between BG's and Cyrodil, obviously.
BG's you find people are grouped in funnels, or you can easily lead them to one, where less damage on your spamable just isn't optimal.
Cyrodil is different as the terrain isn't the same, but even then, are you tower farming? Then run sweeps and just clatter zerglings with extra damage, regardless of their CR or shields.
If you're open field and not as 'in the middle of it' using trees etc as LOS then throw a destro on, get more damage into your light attacks and a lower flat damage bonus across all Edit: non magic damage abilities.

DW vs Destro builds is the difference here for me.

DW & Sweeps = Yes WM.
Destro & Pulse = No WM.

My point exactly. For an aggressive melee BG build, WM is a great set. Sweeps, toppling charge, purifying light, even sometimes Jesus beam are my bread and butter skills. And as much as I hate trying to land Empowering Sweep, that Skelly/Axiom/WM build makes it damn tempting (small burst and potentially 60% damage reduction synergy! Really lets you get to work.)

Healing? Who needs it. Acceletate and reset the fight if you haven't already destroyed them. I started using Repentance as my main heal lol.

I actually don't use Templar ults but if landing them was more consistent, that would be ideal.
I do use Dawnbreaker and Meteor, but of course, DB isn't effected by any mag sets either (Shackle if you wanna say that), only Meteor benefits fully and I find myself using DB more often than not and with greater success, especially vs competent players.

Aggressive melee builds benefit from WM, imo, not just for BGs.

Navras

datoliteb16_ESO wrote: »

Healing? Who needs it. Acceletate and reset the fight if you haven't already destroyed them. I started using Repentance as my main heal lol.

You will need healing in no-cp. Quite a lot, if you don't play premade groups but just go random pugs.
I've played a fair number of battlegrounds and I often need to break-free, defend, turtle while waiting to reset or to have my ultimate back ready.

Any decent "not brain dead monkey" stamblade (or dk) will force you to defend and turtle and you won't have an efficient escape mechanism instead.

I see WM good in Cyrodill if you play guild zergs or organized groups since you can go glass "pew pew" cannon. I don't really see it super-efficient in no-cp Battlegrounds. /Imho.

Brutusmax1mus

Mr_Nobody wrote: »

ledesertcroit wrote: »

As for myself, I think I have quite a standard history with my Magplar.
As a PVP noob, I started building super defensive. And I could not kill anything.
So I started using Light armor, and proc sets. And it was a little better.
I was quite happy for a while with OWSurge, Skorya, and Riposte. Then I switched Riposte for Trans, and back barred it for front Willpower. I did not die that much more.
But my BG scores were still a lot of assists, and quite few kills. (I play no-cp, and almost only BGs, as all my cp on this character is for heals in PVE).
Seeing the Jesus beam buff, I went for Soulshine and War Maiden (5L2H), front-barred a Fire Staff, and concentrated on single target. And I do not die that much more (not at all in fact), but I score much more kills.And no, I'm not zerg-surfing in BGs, and often melee; sweeps (following Toppling) hit quite hard.
In fact, while getting gud, I feel I need less and less defence. Still love SnB backbar though.
If the RNGesus is kind enough to grant me a Slimecraw Light Shoulder, I might go with that (and be proud of myself for no-proc-sets awesomeness lol).

I'm still super slow and often cornered in blockcasting (I refuse to Vamp Up), and Total Dark is often my only window to turn things around. I also have trouble landing Sweeps on fast targets (those have to eat a Soul Assault in their dodging face haha).
Which is why I'm interested in the Swift idea, although I'm aware this will not go well with Soulshine/War Maiden lol (my sustain, already abysmal, coming from jewellery.)

Right, considering Soul Shine - i find it only be effective on a gank build. Or some troll melee magplar who spams flares... lol. Could work with 3 swift though.

I had someone send me a screen shot of 12k sweeps i got on them using that set. Pre modifier adjustment though. Made healing with the clap great too, prior to its cast time removal.

Lexxypwns

@Mr_Nobody thoughts on playing ranged Magplar?

I’ve had some success with Heavy builds that use Elemental Weapons. Currently using Alch+BSW with Asylum SnB and 3x Infused potion glyphs on an Argonian. Over 4K Spell damage and using Eye bowl + resourceful to cover sustain. I’ve been switching between speed stam immovable and major Vitality+lingering because I can’t make a decision which I like more

Æterny

BNOC wrote: »

No offence but being a Vamp just for bats and 129 recovery isn't a worthwhile trade off to me.

Yeah, she is a vamp since level 10. I'll just leave it as it is and the ult is nice to stay offensive while outnumbered. I can play DB too, is a flex ult =D

But about the Axiom set, is a good idea to have a DW/Destro Setup like this? Can i golden it out? =P

Thanks

BNOC

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Lol.

Directed at me?

Lieblingsjunge

Lexxypwns wrote: »

@Mr_Nobody thoughts on playing ranged Magplar?

I’ve had some success with Heavy builds that use Elemental Weapons. Currently using Alch+BSW with Asylum SnB and 3x Infused potion glyphs on an Argonian. Over 4K Spell damage and using Eye bowl + resourceful to cover sustain. I’ve been switching between speed stam immovable and major Vitality+lingering because I can’t make a decision which I like more

I've played Ranged Heavy Magplar since Summerset, and I honestly enjoy it. The weakness is reflect, but I really enjoy ranged Magplar. Staff - Light-attacks are too good atm to give up on imo.

Running Resto / Destro atm, Lighting destro for the clench(also spammable) with a Master's staff. It feels much less clunky than melee magplar atm.

Brutusmax1mus

Lexxypwns wrote: »

@Mr_Nobody thoughts on playing ranged Magplar?

I’ve had some success with Heavy builds that use Elemental Weapons. Currently using Alch+BSW with Asylum SnB and 3x Infused potion glyphs on an Argonian. Over 4K Spell damage and using Eye bowl + resourceful to cover sustain. I’ve been switching between speed stam immovable and major Vitality+lingering because I can’t make a decision which I like more

Y not lingering+speed (could make with vitality too if you're a baller) and mag immovable?

CatchMeTrolling

Bol isn’t the only healing you’re getting just your main heal so you lose out on more than just the extra heal from Bol.

In bgs you need healing and damage, running low on heals will get you one banged from stealth or an ult with no room to recover. Plus , not every fight last 10 secs they can get drawn out so if you have nothing left in the tank and no heals you’re going to be the first to drop. Finally, since there’s less mitigation people tend to drop quicker so you can actually build for too much damage while missing out in other areas.

I get the crit doesn’t work on shield enemies but not everyone is a shielded enemy , there’s still plenty of stam players. Plenty of crit damage to go out since templars are suited for pressured sustained dps meaning you’re going to crit pretty often. Then there’s the fact once shields go down you need to drop your opponent quick or you’ll be in a never ending fight. You don’t need to specialize in crit but you should have at least 40 percent crit chance and 10 percent via cp.

Joy_Division

BNOC wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Lol.

Directed at me?

Came after this:

datoliteb16_ESO wrote: »

Healing? Who needs it. Acceletate and reset the fight if you haven't already destroyed them. I started using Repentance as my main heal lol.

If Wrobel reads this thread, we aren't getting any buffs or changes because it sounds like a DW melee Sweeping Templar is a beast.

Lexxypwns

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

@Mr_Nobody thoughts on playing ranged Magplar?

I’ve had some success with Heavy builds that use Elemental Weapons. Currently using Alch+BSW with Asylum SnB and 3x Infused potion glyphs on an Argonian. Over 4K Spell damage and using Eye bowl + resourceful to cover sustain. I’ve been switching between speed stam immovable and major Vitality+lingering because I can’t make a decision which I like more

Y not lingering+speed (could make with vitality too if you're a baller) and mag immovable?

Well, with a 21 second potion cooldown I like to abuse some of the stronger effects that typically have very low uptime. Only being able to be CCed once between immovable pots is OP and the magika sustain is already excellent without needing magika on potions.

Major Vitality is insane and having over 70% uptime on it is completely broken

Asylum SnB lets me convert extra stam to magika if needed anyway

CatchMeTrolling

BNOC wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Lol.

Directed at me?

No it was at the person saying repentance was their main heal but I’m pretty sure that was a hyperbole.

Brutusmax1mus

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

@Mr_Nobody thoughts on playing ranged Magplar?

I’ve had some success with Heavy builds that use Elemental Weapons. Currently using Alch+BSW with Asylum SnB and 3x Infused potion glyphs on an Argonian. Over 4K Spell damage and using Eye bowl + resourceful to cover sustain. I’ve been switching between speed stam immovable and major Vitality+lingering because I can’t make a decision which I like more

Y not lingering+speed (could make with vitality too if you're a baller) and mag immovable?

Well, with a 21 second potion cooldown I like to abuse some of the stronger effects that typically have very low uptime. Only being able to be CCed once between immovable pots is OP and the magika sustain is already excellent without needing magika on potions.

Major Vitality is insane and having over 70% uptime on it is completely broken

Asylum SnB lets me convert extra stam to magika if needed anyway

Yea i agree about stacking the effects, my dk resource cool down dk is in doyl and alchemist and tk. There isn't much better than having immovable lingering and speed up nearly 100%, i use those 2 pots on him. Just figured the mag sustain would be better than stam sustain since you should have plenty of stam to break, block and roll with the immovable uptime/ resourceful. Haven't tried it on a mag character though.

BNOC

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Bol isn’t the only healing you’re getting just your main heal so you lose out on more than just the extra heal from Bol.

In bgs you need healing and damage, running low on heals will get you one banged from stealth or an ult with no room to recover. Plus , not every fight last 10 secs they can get drawn out so if you have nothing left in the tank and no heals you’re going to be the first to drop. Finally, since there’s less mitigation people tend to drop quicker so you can actually build for too much damage while missing out in other areas.

I get the crit doesn’t work on shield enemies but not everyone is a shielded enemy , there’s still plenty of stam players. Plenty of crit damage to go out since templars are suited for pressured sustained dps meaning you’re going to crit pretty often. Then there’s the fact once shields go down you need to drop your opponent quick or you’ll be in a never ending fight. You don’t need to specialize in crit but you should have at least 40 percent crit chance and 10 percent via cp.

Maybe you're getting one banged in light armour - I'm not in heavy but that's fair if you are.

Finding yourself out of resources has nothing to do with what we're talking about and is a personal issue.. but I find in heavy it's kinda rare for me to heal, especially spam it in a BG, it's usually used when I'm disengaged and moving.
Until then you can rely on ritual and sweep heals (That are higher in damage, so higher healing and in turn, bigger crit heals when they do - We're talking about a 6% crit chance loss at most here unless you're running MS for some reason)

You can fight people relying exclusively on sweep heals inside of our 'house' just as long as you keep the pressure up - There's no better pressure than more damage, right?

I agree that too much damage is a thing against some but again, not against everyone. I have a better time building generically for everyone rather than specifically for someone.

You're right that not everyone is a shielded player but a lot of players are. Flat, base damage affects everyone regardless of shields or CR and increases crit damage in turn; Using your 40% target and losing the 6% from Julies for example results in 6 hits in 100 not being crits, but 34 in 100 are of higher base & crit damage.

Shields go down, sure, but you have to get them down in the first place - That's priority number 1 and crit/penetration are no help there whatsoever - I'd rather have more damage for 20k+ of shields and a little bit less damage to their actual health bar than only have increased damage for the 20k~ of health that people have beneath them.

I get that you might not consider WM a good set, but your suggestions, with the exception of Axiom, are nowhere near as good whilst running DW:

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

There’s better sets to slot than war maiden. It has some usefulness but dps wise there’s better sets and since dps & your heals go together it’s not worth it. I’d rather slot spinners, julianos, overwhelming, bsw and even axiom etc.

I used it briefly and couldn’t see why anyone would seriously use that. War maiden sounds good on paper but subpar in practice, especially solo.

1. Spinners cannot be a serious suggestion as you're now building for a percentage of the population rather than the masses.
2.Overwhelming has a single target 5 set bonus that's kinda unpredictable target wise (when you're in the mix), so that's no good either, not on a class with our AOE potential - Unless you're duelling.
3. BSW has a downtime and can't be considered as you aren't guaranteed its full potential and even then, have to know it's procced and time your burst in that 8s window. What if you NEED to heal whilst it's down which is min 1/3 of the time in combat - No good.
4. Julianos is a PvE set, great if you heal a lot and provides a steady damage increase - But as a whole, axiom does a better job tbf.

I'm not arguing WM is BiS in every situation, are any of them? But it's certainly not 'subpar'.

BNOC

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

BNOC wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Lol.

Directed at me?

No it was at the person saying repentance was their main heal but I’m pretty sure that was a hyperbole.

Haha fair enough! I can't argue with that lol.

Minno

BNOC wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Bol isn’t the only healing you’re getting just your main heal so you lose out on more than just the extra heal from Bol.

In bgs you need healing and damage, running low on heals will get you one banged from stealth or an ult with no room to recover. Plus , not every fight last 10 secs they can get drawn out so if you have nothing left in the tank and no heals you’re going to be the first to drop. Finally, since there’s less mitigation people tend to drop quicker so you can actually build for too much damage while missing out in other areas.

I get the crit doesn’t work on shield enemies but not everyone is a shielded enemy , there’s still plenty of stam players. Plenty of crit damage to go out since templars are suited for pressured sustained dps meaning you’re going to crit pretty often. Then there’s the fact once shields go down you need to drop your opponent quick or you’ll be in a never ending fight. You don’t need to specialize in crit but you should have at least 40 percent crit chance and 10 percent via cp.

Maybe you're getting one banged in light armour - I'm not in heavy but that's fair if you are.

Finding yourself out of resources has nothing to do with what we're talking about and is a personal issue.. but I find in heavy it's kinda rare for me to heal, especially spam it in a BG, it's usually used when I'm disengaged and moving.
Until then you can rely on ritual and sweep heals (That are higher in damage, so higher healing and in turn, bigger crit heals when they do - We're talking about a 6% crit chance loss at most here unless you're running MS for some reason)

You can fight people relying exclusively on sweep heals inside of our 'house' just as long as you keep the pressure up - There's no better pressure than more damage, right?

I agree that too much damage is a thing against some but again, not against everyone. I have a better time building generically for everyone rather than specifically for someone.

You're right that not everyone is a shielded player but a lot of players are. Flat, base damage affects everyone regardless of shields or CR and increases crit damage in turn; Using your 40% target and losing the 6% from Julies for example results in 6 hits in 100 not being crits, but 34 in 100 are of higher base & crit damage.

Shields go down, sure, but you have to get them down in the first place - That's priority number 1 and crit/penetration are no help there whatsoever - I'd rather have more damage for 20k+ of shields and a little bit less damage to their actual health bar than only have increased damage for the 20k~ of health that people have beneath them.

I get that you might not consider WM a good set, but your suggestions, with the exception of Axiom, are nowhere near as good whilst running DW:

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

There’s better sets to slot than war maiden. It has some usefulness but dps wise there’s better sets and since dps & your heals go together it’s not worth it. I’d rather slot spinners, julianos, overwhelming, bsw and even axiom etc.

I used it briefly and couldn’t see why anyone would seriously use that. War maiden sounds good on paper but subpar in practice, especially solo.

1. Spinners cannot be a serious suggestion as you're now building for a percentage of the population rather than the masses.
2.Overwhelming has a single target 5 set bonus that's kinda unpredictable target wise (when you're in the mix), so that's no good either, not on a class with our AOE potential - Unless you're duelling.
3. BSW has a downtime and can't be considered as you aren't guaranteed its full potential and even then, have to know it's procced and time your burst in that 8s window. What if you NEED to heal whilst it's down which is min 1/3 of the time in combat - No good.
4. Julianos is a PvE set, great if you heal a lot and provides a steady damage increase - But as a whole, axiom does a better job tbf.

I'm not arguing WM is BiS in every situation, are any of them? But it's certainly not 'subpar'.

If you are looking for BIS for every situation, there was a reason why most templars rolled shacklebreaker or in the old days rolled Kags. Gave you even looking stats that didn't care what you were doing with them or weren't situational. Even kags, small amount of SD less than julianos but gave health, max mag and mag recov (all arguably decent stats).

BNOC

Minno wrote: »

BNOC wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Bol isn’t the only healing you’re getting just your main heal so you lose out on more than just the extra heal from Bol.

In bgs you need healing and damage, running low on heals will get you one banged from stealth or an ult with no room to recover. Plus , not every fight last 10 secs they can get drawn out so if you have nothing left in the tank and no heals you’re going to be the first to drop. Finally, since there’s less mitigation people tend to drop quicker so you can actually build for too much damage while missing out in other areas.

I get the crit doesn’t work on shield enemies but not everyone is a shielded enemy , there’s still plenty of stam players. Plenty of crit damage to go out since templars are suited for pressured sustained dps meaning you’re going to crit pretty often. Then there’s the fact once shields go down you need to drop your opponent quick or you’ll be in a never ending fight. You don’t need to specialize in crit but you should have at least 40 percent crit chance and 10 percent via cp.

Maybe you're getting one banged in light armour - I'm not in heavy but that's fair if you are.

Finding yourself out of resources has nothing to do with what we're talking about and is a personal issue.. but I find in heavy it's kinda rare for me to heal, especially spam it in a BG, it's usually used when I'm disengaged and moving.
Until then you can rely on ritual and sweep heals (That are higher in damage, so higher healing and in turn, bigger crit heals when they do - We're talking about a 6% crit chance loss at most here unless you're running MS for some reason)

You can fight people relying exclusively on sweep heals inside of our 'house' just as long as you keep the pressure up - There's no better pressure than more damage, right?

I agree that too much damage is a thing against some but again, not against everyone. I have a better time building generically for everyone rather than specifically for someone.

You're right that not everyone is a shielded player but a lot of players are. Flat, base damage affects everyone regardless of shields or CR and increases crit damage in turn; Using your 40% target and losing the 6% from Julies for example results in 6 hits in 100 not being crits, but 34 in 100 are of higher base & crit damage.

Shields go down, sure, but you have to get them down in the first place - That's priority number 1 and crit/penetration are no help there whatsoever - I'd rather have more damage for 20k+ of shields and a little bit less damage to their actual health bar than only have increased damage for the 20k~ of health that people have beneath them.

I get that you might not consider WM a good set, but your suggestions, with the exception of Axiom, are nowhere near as good whilst running DW:

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

There’s better sets to slot than war maiden. It has some usefulness but dps wise there’s better sets and since dps & your heals go together it’s not worth it. I’d rather slot spinners, julianos, overwhelming, bsw and even axiom etc.

I used it briefly and couldn’t see why anyone would seriously use that. War maiden sounds good on paper but subpar in practice, especially solo.

1. Spinners cannot be a serious suggestion as you're now building for a percentage of the population rather than the masses.
2.Overwhelming has a single target 5 set bonus that's kinda unpredictable target wise (when you're in the mix), so that's no good either, not on a class with our AOE potential - Unless you're duelling.
3. BSW has a downtime and can't be considered as you aren't guaranteed its full potential and even then, have to know it's procced and time your burst in that 8s window. What if you NEED to heal whilst it's down which is min 1/3 of the time in combat - No good.
4. Julianos is a PvE set, great if you heal a lot and provides a steady damage increase - But as a whole, axiom does a better job tbf.

I'm not arguing WM is BiS in every situation, are any of them? But it's certainly not 'subpar'.

If you are looking for BIS for every situation, there was a reason why most templars rolled shacklebreaker or in the old days rolled Kags. Gave you even looking stats that didn't care what you were doing with them or weren't situational. Even kags, small amount of SD less than julianos but gave health, max mag and mag recov (all arguably decent stats).

If rings weren't so expensive or I could be bothered to level up JC myself, I would probably run Shackle over WM alongside Axiom for the overall benefits - But since I don't want to spend 1M+ on rings or level it myself through sheer laziness, this is where I'm at haha.

CatchMeTrolling

Can take my advice or don’t. Just know I mained Templar for years. The aggressive play style is what I do and I’ve been doing for awhile.

But people will play how they want, even if I post vids, stats and screenshots that’s not going to sway them. The biggest learning curve in this game is knowing when stat sheets are irrelevant and when they’re not.

Minno

BNOC wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

BNOC wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Bol isn’t the only healing you’re getting just your main heal so you lose out on more than just the extra heal from Bol.

In bgs you need healing and damage, running low on heals will get you one banged from stealth or an ult with no room to recover. Plus , not every fight last 10 secs they can get drawn out so if you have nothing left in the tank and no heals you’re going to be the first to drop. Finally, since there’s less mitigation people tend to drop quicker so you can actually build for too much damage while missing out in other areas.

I get the crit doesn’t work on shield enemies but not everyone is a shielded enemy , there’s still plenty of stam players. Plenty of crit damage to go out since templars are suited for pressured sustained dps meaning you’re going to crit pretty often. Then there’s the fact once shields go down you need to drop your opponent quick or you’ll be in a never ending fight. You don’t need to specialize in crit but you should have at least 40 percent crit chance and 10 percent via cp.

Maybe you're getting one banged in light armour - I'm not in heavy but that's fair if you are.

Finding yourself out of resources has nothing to do with what we're talking about and is a personal issue.. but I find in heavy it's kinda rare for me to heal, especially spam it in a BG, it's usually used when I'm disengaged and moving.
Until then you can rely on ritual and sweep heals (That are higher in damage, so higher healing and in turn, bigger crit heals when they do - We're talking about a 6% crit chance loss at most here unless you're running MS for some reason)

You can fight people relying exclusively on sweep heals inside of our 'house' just as long as you keep the pressure up - There's no better pressure than more damage, right?

I agree that too much damage is a thing against some but again, not against everyone. I have a better time building generically for everyone rather than specifically for someone.

You're right that not everyone is a shielded player but a lot of players are. Flat, base damage affects everyone regardless of shields or CR and increases crit damage in turn; Using your 40% target and losing the 6% from Julies for example results in 6 hits in 100 not being crits, but 34 in 100 are of higher base & crit damage.

Shields go down, sure, but you have to get them down in the first place - That's priority number 1 and crit/penetration are no help there whatsoever - I'd rather have more damage for 20k+ of shields and a little bit less damage to their actual health bar than only have increased damage for the 20k~ of health that people have beneath them.

I get that you might not consider WM a good set, but your suggestions, with the exception of Axiom, are nowhere near as good whilst running DW:

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

There’s better sets to slot than war maiden. It has some usefulness but dps wise there’s better sets and since dps & your heals go together it’s not worth it. I’d rather slot spinners, julianos, overwhelming, bsw and even axiom etc.

I used it briefly and couldn’t see why anyone would seriously use that. War maiden sounds good on paper but subpar in practice, especially solo.

1. Spinners cannot be a serious suggestion as you're now building for a percentage of the population rather than the masses.
2.Overwhelming has a single target 5 set bonus that's kinda unpredictable target wise (when you're in the mix), so that's no good either, not on a class with our AOE potential - Unless you're duelling.
3. BSW has a downtime and can't be considered as you aren't guaranteed its full potential and even then, have to know it's procced and time your burst in that 8s window. What if you NEED to heal whilst it's down which is min 1/3 of the time in combat - No good.
4. Julianos is a PvE set, great if you heal a lot and provides a steady damage increase - But as a whole, axiom does a better job tbf.

I'm not arguing WM is BiS in every situation, are any of them? But it's certainly not 'subpar'.

If you are looking for BIS for every situation, there was a reason why most templars rolled shacklebreaker or in the old days rolled Kags. Gave you even looking stats that didn't care what you were doing with them or weren't situational. Even kags, small amount of SD less than julianos but gave health, max mag and mag recov (all arguably decent stats).

If rings weren't so expensive or I could be bothered to level up JC myself, I would probably run Shackle over WM alongside Axiom for the overall benefits - But since I don't want to spend 1M+ on rings or level it myself through sheer laziness, this is where I'm at haha.

buy the mats! its only 100 plats for the rings (150 for ammys). Then have a crafter make the items, up to blue (its 2k per blue mat and 1500 for green plate ). you need 1 green and 2 blue per item! The platnium is what, 2k for each 100? so 20k+ and then wait on the purples till you can max out the jewel crafting? You should be fine at blue till you can save up for purple.

Mrsinister2

Minno wrote: »

BNOC wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Bol isn’t the only healing you’re getting just your main heal so you lose out on more than just the extra heal from Bol.

In bgs you need healing and damage, running low on heals will get you one banged from stealth or an ult with no room to recover. Plus , not every fight last 10 secs they can get drawn out so if you have nothing left in the tank and no heals you’re going to be the first to drop. Finally, since there’s less mitigation people tend to drop quicker so you can actually build for too much damage while missing out in other areas.

I get the crit doesn’t work on shield enemies but not everyone is a shielded enemy , there’s still plenty of stam players. Plenty of crit damage to go out since templars are suited for pressured sustained dps meaning you’re going to crit pretty often. Then there’s the fact once shields go down you need to drop your opponent quick or you’ll be in a never ending fight. You don’t need to specialize in crit but you should have at least 40 percent crit chance and 10 percent via cp.

Maybe you're getting one banged in light armour - I'm not in heavy but that's fair if you are.

Finding yourself out of resources has nothing to do with what we're talking about and is a personal issue.. but I find in heavy it's kinda rare for me to heal, especially spam it in a BG, it's usually used when I'm disengaged and moving.
Until then you can rely on ritual and sweep heals (That are higher in damage, so higher healing and in turn, bigger crit heals when they do - We're talking about a 6% crit chance loss at most here unless you're running MS for some reason)

You can fight people relying exclusively on sweep heals inside of our 'house' just as long as you keep the pressure up - There's no better pressure than more damage, right?

I agree that too much damage is a thing against some but again, not against everyone. I have a better time building generically for everyone rather than specifically for someone.

You're right that not everyone is a shielded player but a lot of players are. Flat, base damage affects everyone regardless of shields or CR and increases crit damage in turn; Using your 40% target and losing the 6% from Julies for example results in 6 hits in 100 not being crits, but 34 in 100 are of higher base & crit damage.

Shields go down, sure, but you have to get them down in the first place - That's priority number 1 and crit/penetration are no help there whatsoever - I'd rather have more damage for 20k+ of shields and a little bit less damage to their actual health bar than only have increased damage for the 20k~ of health that people have beneath them.

I get that you might not consider WM a good set, but your suggestions, with the exception of Axiom, are nowhere near as good whilst running DW:

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

There’s better sets to slot than war maiden. It has some usefulness but dps wise there’s better sets and since dps & your heals go together it’s not worth it. I’d rather slot spinners, julianos, overwhelming, bsw and even axiom etc.

I used it briefly and couldn’t see why anyone would seriously use that. War maiden sounds good on paper but subpar in practice, especially solo.

1. Spinners cannot be a serious suggestion as you're now building for a percentage of the population rather than the masses.
2.Overwhelming has a single target 5 set bonus that's kinda unpredictable target wise (when you're in the mix), so that's no good either, not on a class with our AOE potential - Unless you're duelling.
3. BSW has a downtime and can't be considered as you aren't guaranteed its full potential and even then, have to know it's procced and time your burst in that 8s window. What if you NEED to heal whilst it's down which is min 1/3 of the time in combat - No good.
4. Julianos is a PvE set, great if you heal a lot and provides a steady damage increase - But as a whole, axiom does a better job tbf.

I'm not arguing WM is BiS in every situation, are any of them? But it's certainly not 'subpar'.

If you are looking for BIS for every situation, there was a reason why most templars rolled shacklebreaker or in the old days rolled Kags. Gave you even looking stats that didn't care what you were doing with them or weren't situational. Even kags, small amount of SD less than julianos but gave health, max mag and mag recov (all arguably decent stats).

I run kags and shackle breaker right now with 3 spell damage enchants on triune jewlery.

Over 3k spell damage 20k Stam 35k mag 30k health. It's a really good set up and I run no procs or mist form at all.

Mr_Nobody

Lexxypwns wrote: »

@Mr_Nobody thoughts on playing ranged Magplar?

I’ve had some success with Heavy builds that use Elemental Weapons. Currently using Alch+BSW with Asylum SnB and 3x Infused potion glyphs on an Argonian. Over 4K Spell damage and using Eye bowl + resourceful to cover sustain. I’ve been switching between speed stam immovable and major Vitality+lingering because I can’t make a decision which I like more

I got like 3 vids of a ranged heavy magplar. Imo its the best way to play it that way due to tankyness and u dont need shields etc. Its tbh one of the strongest specs out there. Kind of anti stam nb and magsorc

Ariades_swe

Mr_Nobody wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

@Mr_Nobody thoughts on playing ranged Magplar?

I’ve had some success with Heavy builds that use Elemental Weapons. Currently using Alch+BSW with Asylum SnB and 3x Infused potion glyphs on an Argonian. Over 4K Spell damage and using Eye bowl + resourceful to cover sustain. I’ve been switching between speed stam immovable and major Vitality+lingering because I can’t make a decision which I like more

I got like 3 vids of a ranged heavy magplar. Imo its the best way to play it that way due to tankyness and u dont need shields etc. Its tbh one of the strongest specs out there. Kind of anti stam nb and magsorc

What spammable do you use for your ranged magplar?
I messed around with elemental weapon but I found it lacking against dodgerollers and magdks but it might be a l2play issue since I'm new to the playstyle.

VirtualElizabeth

Mr_Nobody wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

@Mr_Nobody thoughts on playing ranged Magplar?

I’ve had some success with Heavy builds that use Elemental Weapons. Currently using Alch+BSW with Asylum SnB and 3x Infused potion glyphs on an Argonian. Over 4K Spell damage and using Eye bowl + resourceful to cover sustain. I’ve been switching between speed stam immovable and major Vitality+lingering because I can’t make a decision which I like more

I got like 3 vids of a ranged heavy magplar. Imo its the best way to play it that way due to tankyness and u dont need shields etc. Its tbh one of the strongest specs out there. Kind of anti stam nb and magsorc

@Mr_Nobody These were videos you made? What is the link to your Youtube page? Thanks!

KingExecration

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

@Mr_Nobody thoughts on playing ranged Magplar?

I’ve had some success with Heavy builds that use Elemental Weapons. Currently using Alch+BSW with Asylum SnB and 3x Infused potion glyphs on an Argonian. Over 4K Spell damage and using Eye bowl + resourceful to cover sustain. I’ve been switching between speed stam immovable and major Vitality+lingering because I can’t make a decision which I like more

Y not lingering+speed (could make with vitality too if you're a baller) and mag immovable?

Well, with a 21 second potion cooldown I like to abuse some of the stronger effects that typically have very low uptime. Only being able to be CCed once between immovable pots is OP and the magika sustain is already excellent without needing magika on potions.

Major Vitality is insane and having over 70% uptime on it is completely broken

Asylum SnB lets me convert extra stam to magika if needed anyway

Might sound crazy, but I’ve ran a few build sorta like that and I’m using vMA sword and board for the ult gen from heroic slash, stam and mag sustain because I heavy attack a bunch in heavy armor on my s&b bar. Opens up me to witchmothers brew. But I’m not an argonian with the potion cooldown enchants.