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Sloads..................
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Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
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Honestly, the only thing I can say to this is: LMFAO.SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »If my stamina DK can be affected by multiple vipers ticking for ~800 each, i don't see why a sorc should not be affected by multiple sloads ticking for ~800 each.
Having a shield does not make one special.
The difference is that Sload's is irresistible. There's nothing whatsoever you can do about it but die if too much gets stacked onto you. Resistible damage is categorically different from a design perspective. One can choose to invest in resistance strategies to mitigate it. It takes MUCH more of that kind of damage for death to become inevitable. Making those mitigation investments (shields or armor or defensive buffs or CP or whatever) comes at a cost, making it balanced and acceptable that such damage can stack. You can either acknowledge the objective difference or you can play denial games. The facts won't change: these two things are different and nobody benefits from pretending that they are the same when they obviously aren't.
So distilled down, your argument is that sload's damage can not be lessened by investing into resistance.
To this, i reply: Sload hits for roughly the same as viper *after* resistances have been taken into account for viper.
In other words, the "resistance" to sload is already built-in into the base damage of the ability.
If viper/sheer venom are hitting for the same on you, lets say about 800, that means you literally have 0 resistance and damage reduction. 6400 damage over 4 seconds --> 6400/4 = 1600, divided by 2 (battlespirit) = 800. After that, stuff like maim, protection and resistances come into mind. On any normal and competent target using buffs and debuffs and has good resistance, viper dot will hit for like 350-400 max. Sloads hits at least 2 times as hard. You are just so wrong, my eyes are bleeding.
My bad. I should have made it more clear i was talking about overall damage output, not necessarily damage per tick.
Viper has a 100% proc rate, sload only 10%, which makes up for the damage difference.0 -
Koensol✭✭✭✭✭
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Sloads uptime in pvp is a lot higher than 50% with dots and weaving, so it will end up doing more damage than viper, even over a prolonged period of time. If your sload uptime is lower than 50% you are doing it wrong.
Honestly, the only thing I can say to this is: LMFAO.SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »If my stamina DK can be affected by multiple vipers ticking for ~800 each, i don't see why a sorc should not be affected by multiple sloads ticking for ~800 each.
Having a shield does not make one special.
The difference is that Sload's is irresistible. There's nothing whatsoever you can do about it but die if too much gets stacked onto you. Resistible damage is categorically different from a design perspective. One can choose to invest in resistance strategies to mitigate it. It takes MUCH more of that kind of damage for death to become inevitable. Making those mitigation investments (shields or armor or defensive buffs or CP or whatever) comes at a cost, making it balanced and acceptable that such damage can stack. You can either acknowledge the objective difference or you can play denial games. The facts won't change: these two things are different and nobody benefits from pretending that they are the same when they obviously aren't.
So distilled down, your argument is that sload's damage can not be lessened by investing into resistance.
To this, i reply: Sload hits for roughly the same as viper *after* resistances have been taken into account for viper.
In other words, the "resistance" to sload is already built-in into the base damage of the ability.
If viper/sheer venom are hitting for the same on you, lets say about 800, that means you literally have 0 resistance and damage reduction. 6400 damage over 4 seconds --> 6400/4 = 1600, divided by 2 (battlespirit) = 800. After that, stuff like maim, protection and resistances come into mind. On any normal and competent target using buffs and debuffs and has good resistance, viper dot will hit for like 350-400 max. Sloads hits at least 2 times as hard. You are just so wrong, my eyes are bleeding.
My bad. I should have made it more clear i was talking about overall damage output, not necessarily damage per tick.
Viper has a 100% proc rate, sload only 10%, which makes up for the damage difference.
Also, this point is irrelevant in the context of pvp, because pvp is not about dps over a prolonged period of time. It is about applying pressure and timed burst. And the reality is that sloads is providing a LOT more pressure in a short timespan and synergizes a lot better with defile and burst combo's because of that. Viper isn't bad on builds focussed around proccing skoria for example, but sloads is more lethal on its own. By far.1 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
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Sloads uptime in pvp is a lot higher than 50% with dots and weaving, so it will end up doing more damage than viper, even over a prolonged period of time. If your sload uptime is lower than 50% you are doing it wrong.
Honestly, the only thing I can say to this is: LMFAO.SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »If my stamina DK can be affected by multiple vipers ticking for ~800 each, i don't see why a sorc should not be affected by multiple sloads ticking for ~800 each.
Having a shield does not make one special.
The difference is that Sload's is irresistible. There's nothing whatsoever you can do about it but die if too much gets stacked onto you. Resistible damage is categorically different from a design perspective. One can choose to invest in resistance strategies to mitigate it. It takes MUCH more of that kind of damage for death to become inevitable. Making those mitigation investments (shields or armor or defensive buffs or CP or whatever) comes at a cost, making it balanced and acceptable that such damage can stack. You can either acknowledge the objective difference or you can play denial games. The facts won't change: these two things are different and nobody benefits from pretending that they are the same when they obviously aren't.
So distilled down, your argument is that sload's damage can not be lessened by investing into resistance.
To this, i reply: Sload hits for roughly the same as viper *after* resistances have been taken into account for viper.
In other words, the "resistance" to sload is already built-in into the base damage of the ability.
If viper/sheer venom are hitting for the same on you, lets say about 800, that means you literally have 0 resistance and damage reduction. 6400 damage over 4 seconds --> 6400/4 = 1600, divided by 2 (battlespirit) = 800. After that, stuff like maim, protection and resistances come into mind. On any normal and competent target using buffs and debuffs and has good resistance, viper dot will hit for like 350-400 max. Sloads hits at least 2 times as hard. You are just so wrong, my eyes are bleeding.
My bad. I should have made it more clear i was talking about overall damage output, not necessarily damage per tick.
Viper has a 100% proc rate, sload only 10%, which makes up for the damage difference.
Also, this point is irrelevant in the context of pvp, because pvp is not about dps over a prolonged period of time. It is about applying pressure and timed burst. And the reality is that sloads is providing a LOT more pressure in a short timespan and synergizes a lot better with defile and burst combo's because of that. Viper isn't bad on builds focussed around proccing skoria for example, but sloads is more lethal on its own. By far.
TBH, the whole argument stemmed from "sload should not stack because it ignores defenses". My point was, "if other dots stack, there is no reason for sload not to, because the important thing is not whether something ignores defenses, but how much damage it does in the end."
I used viper in the argument, but i could just as easily used poison injection. So the actual damage of the "normal DOT" is besides the point. "But viper will do 10% less damage" is irrelevant, what is relevant is that if my stamina character can have multiple DOTs stacked on him that eat away at his health bar, then so can a sorcerer. Having a shield does not make one a special snowflake.2 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭what is relevant is that if my stamina character can have multiple DOTs stacked on him that eat away at his health bar, then so can a sorcerer. Having a shield does not make one a special snowflake.
What is relevant is that your stamina character has a higher mitigation (and probably major evasion) than a light armor Sorc and several reliable self heals. It’s not Sorcs fault the class toolkit is basically shields or bust.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 46 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1700+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.2 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭what is relevant is that if my stamina character can have multiple DOTs stacked on him that eat away at his health bar, then so can a sorcerer. Having a shield does not make one a special snowflake.
What is relevant is that your stamina character has a higher mitigation (and probably major evasion) than a light armor Sorc and several reliable self heals. It’s not Sorcs fault the class toolkit is basically shields or bust.
My stamina character's HP bar gets damaged by everything that hits it tho, not just the stacked DOT.
If you account for the shield not allowing anything to touch the sorc HP bar except sload, your ability to prevent damage to your HP bar is far beyond that of a stam char. Therefore your demand to make sload not stackable on the grounds that "i dont have mitigation" has no merit.1 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭what is relevant is that if my stamina character can have multiple DOTs stacked on him that eat away at his health bar, then so can a sorcerer. Having a shield does not make one a special snowflake.
What is relevant is that your stamina character has a higher mitigation (and probably major evasion) than a light armor Sorc and several reliable self heals. It’s not Sorcs fault the class toolkit is basically shields or bust.
My stamina character's HP bar gets damaged by everything that hits it tho, not just the stacked DOT.
If you account for the shield not allowing anything to touch the sorc HP bar except sload, your ability to prevent damage to your HP bar is far beyond that of a stam char. Therefore your demand to make sload not stackable on the grounds that "i dont have mitigation" has no merit.
That’s why you can dodge, roll and block far more efficient than any mag Sorc. And especially dodge rolling scales far better 1vX than any Shield does. It makes no sense to discuss this further though. You’re selective on the points you answer, and for some reason you’re adamant on the point that the set is balanced. I don’t think you even have played a Sorc for long enough to know the shortcomings of the class defenses.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 46 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1700+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.2 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
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The dot doesn't ignore the basic mechanics of every dot, Oblivion damage is an actual mechanic of this game.
Dots themselves are mechanics of this game...Asking this one specific dot to not follow the rules of every other dot, in that it stacks because you dislike Oblivion damage is silly.
If this was say...Poison damage, and it ignored shields...that would be ignoring the mechanics of every other Poison Ability in this game...however since this mechanic is Oblivion damage, it follows the mechanics of Oblivion damage.
Just because oblivion dmg is a basic mechanic it doesn't mean that it doesn't ignore other mechanics. Oblivion dmg is a certain type of dmg which ignores basic game mechanics. Period. It ignores prety much everything. It doesn't function like other types of dmg. You can word it as you want. That doesn't change what it does. Since that dot is oblivion dmg then by definition it ignores basic mechanics of other dots. Bleeds are similar in that regard cause bleed dmg also ignore basic mechanics and surprise surprise bleeds are also overperforming.
Yes other classes too care about if it's oblivion dmg or poison dmg. Not sure why you think they are not. I also highly doubt that you don't care either. Maybe you think you dont when you take dmg from multiple sources but you'd be surprised how much pressure it actually puts on you.
Just because bleeds, oblivion dmg, befoul or whatever doesn't affect everyone in the same way it doesn't make them balanced. With this logic any set that would instakill a certain class would be balanced according to u cause it doesn't affect other classes. That's not how counters and balance works. If shieldstacking is an issue fix shieldstacking. Oblivion dmg doesn't fix it.1 -
Arrodisia✭✭✭✭✭This is just MHO, but maybe reduce the damage of sloads per tick significally, and not letting it stack with other oblivion damage, or go another route with making it proc off of a specific damage type(one example might be landing a critical hit with a class ability that has a cast time) or even procing from successfully blocking a specific attack type (one example might be succesfully blocking a critical physical damage attack)and putting a cd on it at the same time. That set procs off of almost any damage. Even using siege weapons can proc it. Changing what specificly procs it and putting a cd on it for maybe 10-12 seconds will help a lot towards balancing this out in PvP.Edited by Arrodisia on July 18, 2018 10:38AM1 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭what is relevant is that if my stamina character can have multiple DOTs stacked on him that eat away at his health bar, then so can a sorcerer. Having a shield does not make one a special snowflake.
What is relevant is that your stamina character has a higher mitigation (and probably major evasion) than a light armor Sorc and several reliable self heals. It’s not Sorcs fault the class toolkit is basically shields or bust.
My stamina character's HP bar gets damaged by everything that hits it tho, not just the stacked DOT.
If you account for the shield not allowing anything to touch the sorc HP bar except sload, your ability to prevent damage to your HP bar is far beyond that of a stam char. Therefore your demand to make sload not stackable on the grounds that "i dont have mitigation" has no merit.
That’s why you can dodge, roll and block far more efficient than any mag Sorc.
And all that still can't hold a candle to the way your shields protect your hitpoint bar. Dodge can be bypassed, block can be bypassed. Oblivion damage is the only thing that even scratches you.
"Oh my god, you can't let sload stack because my defenses are so weak!" - sincerely, a sorc who thinks a char isn't tanky unless he can handle six competent enemies at once.1 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Even tho, they chose to be a full Tank and supposed to have 0 damage by game design cause Tanks are for tanking not for killing.
Here we go again: Players inventing rules and then getting mad when others don't follow them.
By game design, how much damage a player does depends on what build/equipment he uses, not on what label you decide to stick on him.
Want to do damage? Stack in magicka or stamina and weapon or spell damage.
Here we go again. Player-invented rule #2:
"If a player wants to do damage, he MUST stack magicka or stamina and weapon or spell damage, REGARDLESS of what equipment he uses!" (otherwise i'll get mad)
And yet you get mad because sorcs can build for big shields and high burst. The irony.4 -
Kelces✭✭✭✭✭Coldharbour Ballistas...........
You reveal yourself best in how you play.
Kelces - Argonian Templar
Farel Donvu - Dark Elf Sorcerer
Navam Llervu - Dark Elf Dragonknight
Aniseth - Wood Elf Warden
Therediel - Wood Elf Templar
Nilonwy - Wood Elf Nightblade
Jurupari - Argonian Warden
Kú-Chulainn - Argonian Sorcerer
PC - EU
For the Pact!0 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Even tho, they chose to be a full Tank and supposed to have 0 damage by game design cause Tanks are for tanking not for killing.
Here we go again: Players inventing rules and then getting mad when others don't follow them.
By game design, how much damage a player does depends on what build/equipment he uses, not on what label you decide to stick on him.
Want to do damage? Stack in magicka or stamina and weapon or spell damage.
Here we go again. Player-invented rule #2:
"If a player wants to do damage, he MUST stack magicka or stamina and weapon or spell damage, REGARDLESS of what equipment he uses!" (otherwise i'll get mad)
And yet you get mad because sorcs can build for big shields and high burst. The irony.
Not really. Not while there are means of dealing with them. Like, oh, sload, and shieldbreaker, you know, all that stuff they are mad about.0 -
Mirrrr✭✭✭Sloads won't kill anyone 1vs1 though. The second the Sloads groups get seperated from eachother they get absolutely wrecked.0 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Even tho, they chose to be a full Tank and supposed to have 0 damage by game design cause Tanks are for tanking not for killing.
Here we go again: Players inventing rules and then getting mad when others don't follow them.
By game design, how much damage a player does depends on what build/equipment he uses, not on what label you decide to stick on him.
Want to do damage? Stack in magicka or stamina and weapon or spell damage.
Here we go again. Player-invented rule #2:
"If a player wants to do damage, he MUST stack magicka or stamina and weapon or spell damage, REGARDLESS of what equipment he uses!" (otherwise i'll get mad)
And yet you get mad because sorcs can build for big shields and high burst. The irony.
Not really. Not while there are means of dealing with them. Like, oh, sload, and shieldbreaker, you know, all that stuff they are mad about.
Good to know about ur l2p issues I guess.3 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Even tho, they chose to be a full Tank and supposed to have 0 damage by game design cause Tanks are for tanking not for killing.
Here we go again: Players inventing rules and then getting mad when others don't follow them.
By game design, how much damage a player does depends on what build/equipment he uses, not on what label you decide to stick on him.
Want to do damage? Stack in magicka or stamina and weapon or spell damage.
Here we go again. Player-invented rule #2:
"If a player wants to do damage, he MUST stack magicka or stamina and weapon or spell damage, REGARDLESS of what equipment he uses!" (otherwise i'll get mad)
And yet you get mad because sorcs can build for big shields and high burst. The irony.
Not really. Not while there are means of dealing with them. Like, oh, sload, and shieldbreaker, you know, all that stuff they are mad about.
Good to know about ur l2p issues I guess.
Hiding behind huge shields, with insane damage all stackable to hit at the same moment you hit your opponent with a CC which has no counter, removing whole hitpoint bars in the blink of an eye.
Yet complains about a 850/sec ticking DOT. Because it hurts.
But please, tell me more about *my* L2P issues.2 -
Kelces✭✭✭✭✭Wow, still complaining about a supposed problem, which is already being "looked into" as ZoS said themselves?
Just relax finally and stop annoying the forum, you already got what you wanted...You reveal yourself best in how you play.
Kelces - Argonian Templar
Farel Donvu - Dark Elf Sorcerer
Navam Llervu - Dark Elf Dragonknight
Aniseth - Wood Elf Warden
Therediel - Wood Elf Templar
Nilonwy - Wood Elf Nightblade
Jurupari - Argonian Warden
Kú-Chulainn - Argonian Sorcerer
PC - EU
For the Pact!1 -
Gnozo✭✭✭✭✭
✭Even tho, they chose to be a full Tank and supposed to have 0 damage by game design cause Tanks are for tanking not for killing.
Here we go again: Players inventing rules and then getting mad when others don't follow them.
By game design, how much damage a player does depends on what build/equipment he uses, not on what label you decide to stick on him.
Want to do damage? Stack in magicka or stamina and weapon or spell damage.
Here we go again. Player-invented rule #2:
"If a player wants to do damage, he MUST stack magicka or stamina and weapon or spell damage, REGARDLESS of what equipment he uses!" (otherwise i'll get mad)
And yet you get mad because sorcs can build for big shields and high burst. The irony.
Not really. Not while there are means of dealing with them. Like, oh, sload, and shieldbreaker, you know, all that stuff they are mad about.
Good to know about ur l2p issues I guess.
Hiding behind huge shields, with insane damage all stackable to hit at the same moment you hit your opponent with a CC which has no counter, removing whole hitpoint bars in the blink of an eye.
Yet complains about a 850/sec ticking DOT. Because it hurts.
But please, tell me more about *my* L2P issues.
I know two stamdk who are showing every sorc what 2 dots (claw + Breath) and a 28k leap tooltip feels like. While still eating frags like they dont even touch them. All of this in medium armor.
The pressure they apply will eat all of your magicka to maintain shields and leaving you with 0 chance to go in the offensive. 24k shields are down before you even finished a resto heavy attack to get some magicka back.
Same goes for every class in a hand of a decent Player.
Except maybe magplar, they cant apply enough pressure but that magplars are Underperforming damage wise isnt a secret.Edited by Gnozo on July 18, 2018 11:24AM0 -
Rianai✭✭✭✭✭
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Honestly, the only thing I can say to this is: LMFAO.SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »If my stamina DK can be affected by multiple vipers ticking for ~800 each, i don't see why a sorc should not be affected by multiple sloads ticking for ~800 each.
Having a shield does not make one special.
The difference is that Sload's is irresistible. There's nothing whatsoever you can do about it but die if too much gets stacked onto you. Resistible damage is categorically different from a design perspective. One can choose to invest in resistance strategies to mitigate it. It takes MUCH more of that kind of damage for death to become inevitable. Making those mitigation investments (shields or armor or defensive buffs or CP or whatever) comes at a cost, making it balanced and acceptable that such damage can stack. You can either acknowledge the objective difference or you can play denial games. The facts won't change: these two things are different and nobody benefits from pretending that they are the same when they obviously aren't.
So distilled down, your argument is that sload's damage can not be lessened by investing into resistance.
To this, i reply: Sload hits for roughly the same as viper *after* resistances have been taken into account for viper.
In other words, the "resistance" to sload is already built-in into the base damage of the ability.
If viper/sheer venom are hitting for the same on you, lets say about 800, that means you literally have 0 resistance and damage reduction. 6400 damage over 4 seconds --> 6400/4 = 1600, divided by 2 (battlespirit) = 800. After that, stuff like maim, protection and resistances come into mind. On any normal and competent target using buffs and debuffs and has good resistance, viper dot will hit for like 350-400 max. Sloads hits at least 2 times as hard. You are just so wrong, my eyes are bleeding.
My bad. I should have made it more clear i was talking about overall damage output, not necessarily damage per tick.
Viper has a 100% proc rate, sload only 10%, which makes up for the damage difference.
Lower proc chance doesn't equal lower uptime. Viper procs only on a few specific melee attacks, which are much easier to avoid than "any dmg". Viper will only have higher uptime than Sloads if you are just standing there like a target dummy.1 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
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Honestly, the only thing I can say to this is: LMFAO.SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »If my stamina DK can be affected by multiple vipers ticking for ~800 each, i don't see why a sorc should not be affected by multiple sloads ticking for ~800 each.
Having a shield does not make one special.
The difference is that Sload's is irresistible. There's nothing whatsoever you can do about it but die if too much gets stacked onto you. Resistible damage is categorically different from a design perspective. One can choose to invest in resistance strategies to mitigate it. It takes MUCH more of that kind of damage for death to become inevitable. Making those mitigation investments (shields or armor or defensive buffs or CP or whatever) comes at a cost, making it balanced and acceptable that such damage can stack. You can either acknowledge the objective difference or you can play denial games. The facts won't change: these two things are different and nobody benefits from pretending that they are the same when they obviously aren't.
So distilled down, your argument is that sload's damage can not be lessened by investing into resistance.
To this, i reply: Sload hits for roughly the same as viper *after* resistances have been taken into account for viper.
In other words, the "resistance" to sload is already built-in into the base damage of the ability.
If viper/sheer venom are hitting for the same on you, lets say about 800, that means you literally have 0 resistance and damage reduction. 6400 damage over 4 seconds --> 6400/4 = 1600, divided by 2 (battlespirit) = 800. After that, stuff like maim, protection and resistances come into mind. On any normal and competent target using buffs and debuffs and has good resistance, viper dot will hit for like 350-400 max. Sloads hits at least 2 times as hard. You are just so wrong, my eyes are bleeding.
My bad. I should have made it more clear i was talking about overall damage output, not necessarily damage per tick.
Viper has a 100% proc rate, sload only 10%, which makes up for the damage difference.
Lower proc chance doesn't equal lower uptime. Viper procs only on a few specific melee attacks, which are much easier to avoid than "any dmg". Viper will only have higher uptime than Sloads if you are just standing there like a target dummy.
Did you check the thread? There's a screenshot of someone testing this on a literal target dummy, and sload had 62% uptime. It is generally much lower than people usually assume when they see it procs from "any damage". Viper in this scenario would have a 100% uptime.Edited by Sharee on July 18, 2018 11:31AM2 -
Rianai✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ofc viper would have 100% uptime against a target dummy. I just wrote that. But how is that relevant for actual PvP?Edited by Rianai on July 18, 2018 11:34AM1 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
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Never said anything about rune cage not overperforming. I also haven't really played sorc in months. The difference is that I dont expect to have hardcounters and free dmg to anything I struggle against and consider them balanced.Even tho, they chose to be a full Tank and supposed to have 0 damage by game design cause Tanks are for tanking not for killing.
Here we go again: Players inventing rules and then getting mad when others don't follow them.
By game design, how much damage a player does depends on what build/equipment he uses, not on what label you decide to stick on him.
Want to do damage? Stack in magicka or stamina and weapon or spell damage.
Here we go again. Player-invented rule #2:
"If a player wants to do damage, he MUST stack magicka or stamina and weapon or spell damage, REGARDLESS of what equipment he uses!" (otherwise i'll get mad)
And yet you get mad because sorcs can build for big shields and high burst. The irony.
Not really. Not while there are means of dealing with them. Like, oh, sload, and shieldbreaker, you know, all that stuff they are mad about.
Good to know about ur l2p issues I guess.
Hiding behind huge shields, with insane damage all stackable to hit at the same moment you hit your opponent with a CC which has no counter, removing whole hitpoint bars in the blink of an eye.
Yet complains about a 850/sec ticking DOT. Because it hurts.
But please, tell me more about *my* L2P issues.
But by all means go on and play sorc and wreck everyone with ur massive shields and insane burst. Or wait you must be one of those players. "I don't like eazy mode". But then again you are defending easy mode.1 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ofc viper would have 100% uptime against a target dummy. I just wrote that. But how is that relevant for actual PvP?
In actual PvP, the target would not have been constantly bombarded by four separate DOT's on top of light attack/spammable spam. Which means even lower uptime for sload than the dummy had.
On the other hand, for viper to only have a 50% uptime, the target would need to be hit by a melee attack less than once every 8 seconds. I'm sure you'll agree even in PvP a melee attacker hits more often than that.0 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Ofc viper would have 100% uptime against a target dummy. I just wrote that. But how is that relevant for actual PvP?
In actual PvP, the target would not have been constantly bombarded by four separate DOT's on top of light attack/spammable spam. Which means even lower uptime for sload than the dummy had.
On the other hand, for viper to only have a 50% uptime, the target would need to be hit by a melee attack less than once every 8 seconds. I'm sure you'll agree even in PvP a melee attacker hits more often than that.
Definitely harder to apply ranged dots or light attacks or whatever than melee attacks. Right.0 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Ofc viper would have 100% uptime against a target dummy. I just wrote that. But how is that relevant for actual PvP?
In actual PvP, the target would not have been constantly bombarded by four separate DOT's on top of light attack/spammable spam. Which means even lower uptime for sload than the dummy had.
On the other hand, for viper to only have a 50% uptime, the target would need to be hit by a melee attack less than once every 8 seconds. I'm sure you'll agree even in PvP a melee attacker hits more often than that.
Definitely harder to apply ranged dots or light attacks or whatever than melee attacks. Right.
Landing a melee attack may be harder than landing ranged attacks, but you only need to apply a single melee attack every four seconds to achieve a 100% uptime on viper. On the other hand, even a constant barrage of damage(several times per second) only results in a ~60% uptime on sload.0 -
Rianai✭✭✭✭✭
✭Based on my own tests against actual players Sloads tends to have a 60-70% uptime. I don't have exact numbers for viper, but just yesterday i was fighting (1vs1) against some players with both sets and Viper certainly wasn't up more often than Sloads (btw, you only need to not get hit by melee for 4s after the Viper proc ends to reduce Viper uptime to 50%). Xv1 shifts this even more into the favour of Sloads since most zerglings will just spam ranged stuff.Edited by Rianai on July 18, 2018 12:06PM0 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Based on my own tests against actual players Sloads tends to have a 60-70% uptime. I don't have exact numbers for viper, but just yesterday i was fighting some players with both sets and Viper certainly wasn't up more often than Sloads (btw, you only need to not get hit for 4s after the Viper proc ends to reduce Viper uptime to 50%).
Sure, but how often you hit an enemy with melee attacks is entirely in your hands, unlike sload where you get a 60-70% uptime even if you play perfectly.Xv1 shifts this even more into the favour of Sloads since most zerglings will just spam ranged stuff.
Honestly, at this point i don't give a flying fart about how entitled 1vx-ers think the game should be shaped around their needs.Edited by Sharee on July 18, 2018 12:17PM2 -
Rianai✭✭✭✭✭
✭How often i get hit by melee attacks is entirely on my hands, unlike Sloads where i get a 60-70% uptime on me, no matter what i do ...
You see the issue?0 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭How often i get hit by melee attacks is entirely on my hands, unlike Sloads where i get a 60-70% uptime on me, no matter what i do ...
You see the issue?
Not really.
If the enemy has a 60-70% sload uptime on you, it means you are literally bombarded with several attacks per second to make it proc so often (see the dummy test). In such a situation, viper would be on you like fly on sh.t.0 -
Rianai✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ever thought that a single dummy test might not be super representative for actual PvP performance?
(Can check later if i still have some CM screenshots from Sloads in PvP, which will show that you often don't need to do much for high uptimes).
And it is not just average performance which matter. Just the chance of turing a single light attack which hits for maybe 1k into 10k+ dmg from procs is stupid. It can make the most easiest and trivial actions way too dangerous. Sets which gives raw stats can't do that.Edited by Rianai on July 18, 2018 12:28PM0