[Class Reps] Meeting Notes - June 7

Rekt_gaming

First thanks to Masel92 for replying to so many people if any zenimax employee was half as active in any thread anywhere on these forums as you are in this one the community would cheer.

That being said the graph for sorc's hurt me with only 5% of the concern being about stamina morphs. As a stamina sorc player its the only thing I want to see change. in pve I only have one sorc skill on my front bar and two on the back with one being the same as the frontbar skill bound armaments. Makes us stamina sorc's miss out on class passives since we use so few class skills.

Honestly I don't feel the class reps are doing that good of a job. The entire game is biased toward magicka moprhs and I don't see where this was addressed anywhere infact it seems to be the least concern for every single class. Almost every single class buff or defensive skill in the game has no stamina morph.(yes hurricane is one of if not the only one I can think of) Every escape or elusive style of skill like cloak streak mistform etc have no stamina morphs. Of the entire new psijic skill line there is only one stamina morph.

Can someone explain to me why that doesn't seem to matter to any of our class reps?

Tasear

Rekt_gaming wrote: »

First thanks to Masel92 for replying to so many people if any zenimax employee was half as active in any thread anywhere on these forums as you are in this one the community would cheer.

That being said the graph for sorc's hurt me with only 5% of the concern being about stamina morphs. As a stamina sorc player its the only thing I want to see change. in pve I only have one sorc skill on my front bar and two on the back with one being the same as the frontbar skill bound armaments. Makes us stamina sorc's miss out on class passives since we use so few class skills.

Honestly I don't feel the class reps are doing that good of a job. The entire game is biased toward magicka moprhs and I don't see where this was addressed anywhere infact it seems to be the least concern for every single class. Almost every single class buff or defensive skill in the game has no stamina morph.(yes hurricane is one of if not the only one I can think of) Every escape or elusive style of skill like cloak streak mistform etc have no stamina morphs. Of the entire new psijic skill line there is only one stamina morph.

Can someone explain to me why that doesn't seem to matter to any of our class reps?

I have brought up your concerns with other class representatives. Your concern is noted and your voice will be heard.

Ragnarock41

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Also as posted from the notes:

"If you are a “stamina” player, there is little distinction between the classes as weapon abilities are predominate. Only the Nightblade feels like a fluid from a stamina perspective. We mused about how some lesser used abilities like the DK Obsidian Shard could be used to help create more of a unique stamina class identity."

I like that idea for DKs. It could offer up a stamina option and somewhat of a stamina heal for StamDKs. (and it's still a decent ranged CC)

Conversely, I'd like to see the magicka-based version, Stone Giant, become flame damage and act as a semi-execute for mDKs.

(Or vice-versa for both morphs)

That is a terrible suggestion , does not solve any of the problems stamina DK has(absolute lack of any kill potential), and only makes magicka Dk even more ridicilous.(execute on an already deadly class).

Stonefist is an ability that is useless for both stam and magicka Dk. There is no reason to use it. a heal every 7 seconds does not beat the defile I get from reverb bash, or the reliability of petrify.

Edziu

ManDraKE wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*] Incapacitating Strike. Seen as an overloaded and does too much. Reverting original mechanic of stunning when target has higher health was a popular opinion.

of all the ways that you can change incap, that's is probably the worst. A CC needs to be reliable, on PvP timming a CC is pretty much mandatory in order to get a kill agaisnt a competent player, and our other CCs are magika based (fear and stun from cloak, plus agaisnt some builds like a stamsorc, a stun from cloak using meele attacks is pretty much imposible). That healh mechanic is really bad, think another way.

I can see from a mile a away that this "suggestion" came from magblades and non-nighblade players.

I just remembered how in old times people always was using fear before incap and they had no problem with it
and stun only wqworking at your health lower than opponent is looking as more for defensively option which is also fine

Weps

I will read the comments later but for now, I have to say, wonderful job.
Really wonderful.


Let's hope this is the beginning of a new era.
Keep up with the good work

Masel

Rekt_gaming wrote: »

First thanks to Masel92 for replying to so many people if any zenimax employee was half as active in any thread anywhere on these forums as you are in this one the community would cheer.

That being said the graph for sorc's hurt me with only 5% of the concern being about stamina morphs. As a stamina sorc player its the only thing I want to see change. in pve I only have one sorc skill on my front bar and two on the back with one being the same as the frontbar skill bound armaments. Makes us stamina sorc's miss out on class passives since we use so few class skills.

Honestly I don't feel the class reps are doing that good of a job. The entire game is biased toward magicka moprhs and I don't see where this was addressed anywhere infact it seems to be the least concern for every single class. Almost every single class buff or defensive skill in the game has no stamina morph.(yes hurricane is one of if not the only one I can think of) Every escape or elusive style of skill like cloak streak mistform etc have no stamina morphs. Of the entire new psijic skill line there is only one stamina morph.

Can someone explain to me why that doesn't seem to matter to any of our class reps?

It was adressed that stamsorc and stam Dks feel like they lack stamina abilties, I personally brought up the Stamsorc issue myself. these classes dont feel unique because they reyl to 90% on skillines that arent from the respective classes. I personally regard this as an issue myself, because while stamina has more weapons available to their use, that doesnt mean that classes shouldnt feel unique and simply use those as almost the only source of skills.

Datthaw

Coming from a magnb player. I like alot of what was suggested for the nb class (and vamp because I miss that movement speed) Only things that surprised me was the statement that dark cloak is a good heal. Maybe its because I'm using it in cyro on a lowbie toon atm but with 35k hp I have been unimpressed. And people want agony back, shrewd offering makes nb healers even more viable just doesnt make sense to my simple mind.

Rekt_gaming

Kudos and thanks for the quick replies maybe you are all on the ball after all. Here's to hoping ZOS actually listens.

On a side note if I played anything magicka based besides my tank my primary complaint would have been that I had no other choice but the staff as a primary weapon.

SorataArisugawa

@Masel92
If we already speaking about the priority of the several points and why they are there.
On which platform(s) did you count the votes? Forum? Discord? Both? Other?

Reason is: Others and me metioned the lack of spamable classskill for sorcs and it wasn't mentioned on your pieshard. Were we to few, or on the wrong platform?

kirchhofftr

Main issues :
Sorcerers need more sustain and mobility and better customize options to class skills they dont have a spammable skill ???
Templars need sustain and mobility
DKs need mobility and as in the article yes noxious breath should get buff for a PvE
Wardens need unique buffs & skills etc
And Nightblades THEY HAVE TO GET NERF !
Hi I am nightblade I can use whenever I want to cloak as a Hide and run away
I have incap almost get 1 shoot to kill you and even if you dont ha ha you get major defile !
I have siphioning atacks and it gives me almost 500 regen with light atacks
I have merciless resolve it cost only 2430 stam / mag and HA-HA I will use 3 bow and each bow hits +50 k in pve / +10 k in pvp

Masel

SorataArisugawa wrote: »

@Masel92
If we already speaking about the priority of the several points and why they are there.
On which platform(s) did you count the votes? Forum? Discord? Both? Other?

Reason is: Others and me metioned the lack of spamable classskill for sorcs and it wasn't mentioned on your pieshard. Were we to few, or on the wrong platform?

I included the forums and the form. I wanted to do discords as well but it was on too short notice to do it manually, already took me abotu 6 hours...

Savos_Saren

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Also as posted from the notes:

"If you are a “stamina” player, there is little distinction between the classes as weapon abilities are predominate. Only the Nightblade feels like a fluid from a stamina perspective. We mused about how some lesser used abilities like the DK Obsidian Shard could be used to help create more of a unique stamina class identity."

I like that idea for DKs. It could offer up a stamina option and somewhat of a stamina heal for StamDKs. (and it's still a decent ranged CC)

Conversely, I'd like to see the magicka-based version, Stone Giant, become flame damage and act as a semi-execute for mDKs.

(Or vice-versa for both morphs)

That is a terrible suggestion , does not solve any of the problems stamina DK has(absolute lack of any kill potential), and only makes magicka Dk even more ridicilous.(execute on an already deadly class).

Stonefist is an ability that is useless for both stam and magicka Dk. There is no reason to use it. a heal every 7 seconds does not beat the defile I get from reverb bash, or the reliability of petrify.

@Ragnarock41

THEY suggested the Obsidian Shard change (in the notes)- not me. I'm all about giving stamDKs more stamina morphs. I'm just encouraging them to come up with ideas.

And of course you'd say that an execute on mDKs is OP. Considering how you already have access to three... Your logic of denying an execute for a deadly class is flawed. If that's the case- I guess they should take executes away from NBs and Sorcs (since they already hit hard) right?

You may not like Stone Fist- but I use Stone Giant A LOT in PVP. It's great for ranged CC and it has decent power when using Innate Axiom. Obsidian Shard, unfortunately, is one of the only class-based healing options for our healers, too.

Back on point, here: The stamina suggestions I have are:

-Make Choking Talons poison damage (that way it benefits from World in Ruin)
-Revert Flames Of Oblivion back to its original AOE and have it scale off whichever resource is higher (AOE poison or flames)
-Change Deep Breath to poison damage (that way it benefits from World in Ruin)

The class reps need suggestions and pain points- not to have us argue amongst each other. Some of you need to stop criticizing other player's ideas and just offer constructive feedback to the reps.

Joy_Division

Rekt_gaming wrote: »

First thanks to Masel92 for replying to so many people if any zenimax employee was half as active in any thread anywhere on these forums as you are in this one the community would cheer.

That being said the graph for sorc's hurt me with only 5% of the concern being about stamina morphs. As a stamina sorc player its the only thing I want to see change. in pve I only have one sorc skill on my front bar and two on the back with one being the same as the frontbar skill bound armaments. Makes us stamina sorc's miss out on class passives since we use so few class skills.

Honestly I don't feel the class reps are doing that good of a job. The entire game is biased toward magicka moprhs and I don't see where this was addressed anywhere infact it seems to be the least concern for every single class. Almost every single class buff or defensive skill in the game has no stamina morph.(yes hurricane is one of if not the only one I can think of) Every escape or elusive style of skill like cloak streak mistform etc have no stamina morphs. Of the entire new psijic skill line there is only one stamina morph.

Can someone explain to me why that doesn't seem to matter to any of our class reps?

A couple of things here.

Generally, it is considered advantageous for stamina players to have their utility skill cost magicka since that leaves their primary resource dedicated to their damage skills that will cast over and over. To have both utility and damage skills and things like vigor means that too much of a burden is placed on their critical stamina pool which they need to do damage while their magicka pool becomes a wasted resource since in such a case, nothing a stamina player would do would come from that pool.

Secondly, we mentioned several times that stamina players of all classes feel as if they don't get as much as they should from their classe sebcause there aren;t many damage morphs, some passives just don't apply to them, and they all play the same way because they are tied to weapons. Rather than put this 5 times for every class, it was put at then end since it was a relevant point for all classes (except perhaps the NB, which comes closest to having a distinctive stamina feel).

You write: "Honestly I don't feel the class reps are doing that good of a job. The entire game is biased toward magicka moprhs and I don't see where this was addressed anywhere infact it seems to be the least concern for every single class."

This is just from the notes

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

• Stamina Dragonknights don’t feel like Dragonknights. They were really strong prior in PvE because heavy attacks were strong, now that technique isn’t as good. Also there’s a feeling the stamina DKs don’t get much out of the class as some passives like World in ruin offer little value to them. Molten Armaments offers what they want but is the “wrong” buff.
• Stamina based sorcerers are unhappy they don’t feel much they get much out of the class as Hurricane is the only damage ability they used
• The idea of a stamina Air Atronach morph (ala Ra Kotu from Hel Ra) was mentioned by several people.
• Also a number of sorcerer passives don’t help the Stamina sorcerer

[*] If you are a “stamina” player, there is little distinction between the classes as weapon abilities are predominate. Only the Nightblade feels fluid from a stamina perspective. We mused about how some lesser used abilities like the DK Obsidian Shard could be used to help create more of a unique stamina class identity.[/list]

We also talked about how stamina players should have early access to a heal that didn't require PvP. We talk about how the newer trials was overly punishing to DPS. We talked and are talking right now how stamina DPS and more generally damage ought to be diversified because it's so generic for all the classes (against NB somewhat of an exception).

In short, stamina players don't necessarily want the utility oriented skills in the psijic line like Accelerate cost their important resources, we have communicated the issues you have to the devs, and, mostly, this stuff does matter to the reps.

Ishammael

LonePirate wrote: »

Who are the DK reps? Do they even play the class? The DK feedback sounds like it came from players who started playing the class a couple of weeks ago and have spent very little time with them in PVP, dungeons and trials. Any hopes I had of them helping to improve the class have now evaporated, not that they had any chance of success in the first place given ZOS' longstanding hatred of the class.

I talked to @Quantum_V in TS because my reaction was the same as you just wrote. He clarified that he described the intrinsic weakness of mDK in open world as centered around mobility: that they either need to be able to move or they need to be given (back) the tools to stand their ground. We talked for a while about this, but I tend to agree that this is the core problem (our views on how to fix diverged). Still, I'm baffled how this discussion didn't make it in the list in OP.



EDITORIAL: I think giving DK access to More Ultimate (at low health? Heroism?) would go a long way to fixing nearly all of the stated concerns.

Quantum_V

Ishammael wrote: »

LonePirate wrote: »

Who are the DK reps? Do they even play the class? The DK feedback sounds like it came from players who started playing the class a couple of weeks ago and have spent very little time with them in PVP, dungeons and trials. Any hopes I had of them helping to improve the class have now evaporated, not that they had any chance of success in the first place given ZOS' longstanding hatred of the class.

I talked to @Quantum_V in TS because my reaction was the same as you just wrote. He clarified that he described the intrinsic weakness of mDK in open world as centered around mobility: that they either need to be able to move or they need to be given (back) the tools to stand their ground. We talked for a while about this, but I tend to agree that this is the core problem (our views on how to fix diverged). Still, I'm baffled how this discussion didn't make it in the list in OP.



EDITORIAL: I think giving DK access to More Ultimate (at low health? Heroism?) would go a long way to fixing nearly all of the stated concerns.

Hey @LonePirate! Thank you for your concerns.

I'd like to hear your opinion on what was said and your ideas too. Please join us in discord, pin us in forum threads you judge interesting and feel free to send us PMs through ingame, discord or the forums. Complaining without providing arguments or feedback doesn't help anyone's goal. I'd be happy to talk to you through voice if you wish to expand on your concerns. As I told Ishmael, it's really difficult to summarize a 2h long meeting in a couple of bulletpoints.

Thanks for understanding!

LonePirate

Quantum_V wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

LonePirate wrote: »

Who are the DK reps? Do they even play the class? The DK feedback sounds like it came from players who started playing the class a couple of weeks ago and have spent very little time with them in PVP, dungeons and trials. Any hopes I had of them helping to improve the class have now evaporated, not that they had any chance of success in the first place given ZOS' longstanding hatred of the class.

I talked to @Quantum_V in TS because my reaction was the same as you just wrote. He clarified that he described the intrinsic weakness of mDK in open world as centered around mobility: that they either need to be able to move or they need to be given (back) the tools to stand their ground. We talked for a while about this, but I tend to agree that this is the core problem (our views on how to fix diverged). Still, I'm baffled how this discussion didn't make it in the list in OP.

EDITORIAL: I think giving DK access to More Ultimate (at low health? Heroism?) would go a long way to fixing nearly all of the stated concerns.

Hey @LonePirate! Thank you for your concerns.

I'd like to hear your opinion on what was said and your ideas too. Please join us in discord, pin us in forum threads you judge interesting and feel free to send us PMs through ingame, discord or the forums. Complaining without providing arguments or feedback doesn't help anyone's goal. I'd be happy to talk to you through voice if you wish to expand on your concerns. As I told Ishmael, it's really difficult to summarize a 2h long meeting in a couple of bulletpoints.

Thanks for understanding!

@Quantum_V

Take a Mag DK into Cyrodiil and go up against a Stam player of pretty much any class. Mag DK class skills which are melee skills do less damage than Stam melee weapon skills. There is no reason why a Mag DK fully loaded with Magicka and Spell Damage with a Molten buff does 20-40% minimum less damage with DK class skills than somebody with a Stam weapon can output. Not only that but Coagulating Blood is a far worse heal than Vigor. The Mag DK needs to hope the Stam player somehow has worse regen (not likely in most cases) or can be caught without an Immovable buff active so they can be knocked down or stunned. Otherwise it is usually a battle of whether the Mag DK can keep up a shield longer than the Stam player can block - and that goes back to a regen battle. In addition to that, if I want to use any weapon skills in Cyrodiil, I need more than 10 skill slots or I need to drop Rapid and Purge, which makes Cyrodiil an absolute hassle.

So if a non-S&B Mag DK wants to be viable in Cyrodiil one or more of the following is needed:

• Mag DK melee skills need to do as much damage as Stam melee weapon skills.
• The main DK class heal actually needs to heal the player.
• Some sort of regen assistance is needed besides relying on cheap ultimates like Leap or Dawnbreaker.
• Reducing block costs or returning Ash Cloud to its former glory to help DKs stand their ground would be very nice as well.

I have given ZOS grief for 3+ years now because it is obvious none of their decision makers ever plays a Mag DK in Cyrodiil. Heck, Rich Lambert pretty much admitted that during his Maelstrom run on ESO Live a few months ago when he said his Mag DK wasn't spec'ed and outfitted enough for MA, so it obviously wasn't Cyrodiil ready, either. Plus, Wroebel's approach of modifying skills that no one uses instead of fixing and improving the ones players actually use is an unmitigated and embarrassing failure that has not helped the class one bit. As such, I don't think ZOS has anyone on staff who is a DK expert based on the inane direction the class has taken the past few years.

Yeah, Mag DKs were way overpowered at PC launch and needed to be nerfed. Unfortunately ZOS overcorrected and they have only been a pale imitation of their former selves since the summer of 2014.

Quantum_V

LonePirate wrote: »

Quantum_V wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

LonePirate wrote: »

Who are the DK reps? Do they even play the class? The DK feedback sounds like it came from players who started playing the class a couple of weeks ago and have spent very little time with them in PVP, dungeons and trials. Any hopes I had of them helping to improve the class have now evaporated, not that they had any chance of success in the first place given ZOS' longstanding hatred of the class.

I talked to @Quantum_V in TS because my reaction was the same as you just wrote. He clarified that he described the intrinsic weakness of mDK in open world as centered around mobility: that they either need to be able to move or they need to be given (back) the tools to stand their ground. We talked for a while about this, but I tend to agree that this is the core problem (our views on how to fix diverged). Still, I'm baffled how this discussion didn't make it in the list in OP.

EDITORIAL: I think giving DK access to More Ultimate (at low health? Heroism?) would go a long way to fixing nearly all of the stated concerns.

Hey @LonePirate! Thank you for your concerns.

I'd like to hear your opinion on what was said and your ideas too. Please join us in discord, pin us in forum threads you judge interesting and feel free to send us PMs through ingame, discord or the forums. Complaining without providing arguments or feedback doesn't help anyone's goal. I'd be happy to talk to you through voice if you wish to expand on your concerns. As I told Ishmael, it's really difficult to summarize a 2h long meeting in a couple of bulletpoints.

Thanks for understanding!

@Quantum_V

Take a Mag DK into Cyrodiil and go up against a Stam player of pretty much any class. Mag DK class skills which are melee skills do less damage than Stam melee weapon skills. There is no reason why a Mag DK fully loaded with Magicka and Spell Damage with a Molten buff does 20-40% minimum less damage with DK class skills than somebody with a Stam weapon can output. Not only that but Coagulating Blood is a far worse heal than Vigor. The Mag DK needs to hope the Stam player somehow has worse regen (not likely in most cases) or can be caught without an Immovable buff active so they can be knocked down or stunned. Otherwise it is usually a battle of whether the Mag DK can keep up a shield longer than the Stam player can block - and that goes back to a regen battle. In addition to that, if I want to use any weapon skills in Cyrodiil, I need more than 10 skill slots or I need to drop Rapid and Purge, which makes Cyrodiil an absolute hassle.

So if a non-S&B Mag DK wants to be viable in Cyrodiil one or more of the following is needed:

• Mag DK melee skills need to do as much damage as Stam melee weapon skills.
• The main DK class heal actually needs to heal the player.
• Some sort of regen assistance is needed besides relying on cheap ultimates like Leap or Dawnbreaker.
• Reducing block costs or returning Ash Cloud to its former glory to help DKs stand their ground would be very nice as well.

I have given ZOS grief for 3+ years now because it is obvious none of their decision makers ever plays a Mag DK in Cyrodiil. Heck, Rich Lambert pretty much admitted that during his Maelstrom run on ESO Live a few months ago when he said his Mag DK wasn't spec'ed and outfitted enough for MA, so it obviously wasn't Cyrodiil ready, either. Plus, Wroebel's approach of modifying skills that no one uses instead of fixing and improving the ones players actually use is an unmitigated and embarrassing failure that has not helped the class one bit. As such, I don't think ZOS has anyone on staff who is a DK expert based on the inane direction the class has taken the past few years.

Yeah, Mag DKs were way overpowered at PC launch and needed to be nerfed. Unfortunately ZOS overcorrected and they have only been a pale imitation of their former selves since the summer of 2014.

Thank you for answering!

Well, as far as this goes:

LonePirate wrote: »

Take a Mag DK into Cyrodiil and go up against a Stam player of pretty much any class.

I've got a 39 rank mDK and another four stars (48) mDK from mostly small scale and solo PvP. Other class reps also play DK in PvE and PvP, so we got this covered.

I agree with some of your points - but even if I don't I'll make sure to take them into consideration and letting ZoS know what you think. But your first post isn't really coherent with your second one. From my understanding you disagreed with the feedback given and asked if we even played the class, yet on your next post you literally bulletpoint most of what was discussed and stated on the OP, yet with a different phrasing.

Your second point:

LonePirate wrote: »

[*] The main DK class heal actually needs to heal the player.

What was stated in the original post and discussed in meeting:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Coagulating Blood and passive problems. Coagulating Blood is a good heal, but it’s secondary effect of major fortitude is often redundant and doesn’t feel useful enough for the cost of the skill.

We discussed the possiblity of having it give you a small HoT for example. Coag is a good heal as it has a big tooltip when compared to other healing sources, it's just super affected by defiles - which is the meta right now. So while Coag can use some help, it's base heal is strong and should feel better once the defile meta is dealt with.

Your third point:

LonePirate wrote: »

[*] Some sort of regen assistance is needed besides relying on cheap ultimates like Leap or Dawnbreaker.

What was stated in the original post and discussed in the meeting:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Sustain needs help

Not sure how to make it any more clear tbh... We discussed several solutions to this, most involving passives.

Your forth point:

LonePirate wrote: »

[*] Reducing block costs or returning Ash Cloud to its former glory to help DKs stand their ground would be very nice as well.

What was discussed in the meeting:

While we did miss this on the OP, we did mention ash cloud, specially it's effectiveness/cost ratio.

So as you can see, we mentioned 3 out of 4 of the issues you mentioned yet you seemed super hostile to what we talked about. At the same time - as proven in this thread - the points you mentioned are mostly the points discussed in the meeting, and yet you said that these same points would apparently only be given by "players who started playing the class a couple of weeks ago and have spent very little time with them in PVP, dungeons and trials". I'm a bit confused with this statement considering you proposed the same changes as we did.

Anyways, I don't strictly agree with your first point - we can debate this further through discord, pms or whatever is more comfortable for you. Regardless of that, I'll make sure to take note!

Thanks for your feedback!

LonePirate

Quantum_V wrote: »

Anyways, I don't strictly agree with your first point - we can debate this further through discord, pms or whatever is more comfortable for you. Regardless of that, I'll make sure to take note!

If you don't think MDK class melee skills should do the same damage as Stam weapon skills, then there needs to be some way to compensate for the DPS disadvantage: a better heal; or better regen, or better damage mitigation. Coag Blood is not a good heal in Cyrodiil when compared to Vigor. MDK regen is laughable if you don't use a cheap ult. I don't use macros so in the time I activate Molten, a damage skill, Obsidian Shield and Spiked Armor, I have taken at least 4 direct hits from skills that do more damage than mine, my shield is probably gone and I need a heal plus my foe has more health than I do and is regenerating Stamina faster than I am regenerating Magicka. Then again, I only have a Rank 50 GO MDK and a Rank 30 Brigadier MDK so what do I know?

Of course addressing any of these issues would likely generate a serious overpowering of MDKs in PVE. I don't see that happening nor do I think the real issue - the Magicka-Stamina imbalance in Cyrodiil - will be addressed either. There are no easy solutions here which explains why the problems have existed for several years. It's also why most MDKs have zero faith anything will change.

ascan7

Please don't remove Malevolent Offering. Now it's a good skill.

I agree on more class identity for healers and to improve the pkayability of a resto/resto healer. Please do it!

BohnT

LonePirate wrote: »

Quantum_V wrote: »

Anyways, I don't strictly agree with your first point - we can debate this further through discord, pms or whatever is more comfortable for you. Regardless of that, I'll make sure to take note!

If you don't think MDK class melee skills should do the same damage as Stam weapon skills, then there needs to be some way to compensate for the DPS disadvantage: a better heal; or better regen, or better damage mitigation. Coag Blood is not a good heal in Cyrodiil when compared to Vigor. MDK regen is laughable if you don't use a cheap ult. I don't use macros so in the time I activate Molten, a damage skill, Obsidian Shield and Spiked Armor, I have taken at least 4 direct hits from skills that do more damage than mine, my shield is probably gone and I need a heal plus my foe has more health than I do and is regenerating Stamina faster than I am regenerating Magicka. Then again, I only have a Rank 50 GO MDK and a Rank 30 Brigadier MDK so what do I know?

Of course addressing any of these issues would likely generate a serious overpowering of MDKs in PVE. I don't see that happening nor do I think the real issue - the Magicka-Stamina imbalance in Cyrodiil - will be addressed either. There are no easy solutions here which explains why the problems have existed for several years. It's also why most MDKs have zero faith anything will change.

Heals like power lash or Burning Ember?
I don't know what you are trying to say but magdk has great healing and survivability that is in fact much better than the stamina counterpart.

BohnT

Will the discussion about pain points also be done with weapon / guild skill lines?

There are several frustrating passives, skills and overall balance which should be touched.

evoniee

Stamina player use weapon skill alot, need some distinctive

Weps

BohnT wrote: »

Will the discussion about pain points also be done with weapon / guild skill lines?

There are several frustrating passives, skills and overall balance which should be touched.

This is something that could spark an interesting conversation but I think the Class Reps are tied to make class-based suggestions.

Can you Reps also suggest to implement things related to other skills lines ( like Trapping Webs instead as a Caltrops alternative and maybe an Undaunted Ultimate that could be a viable alternative to Aggressive Horn for those who don't want to go in Cyrodil - which are, sadly, quite a few )?

Masel

Weps wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Will the discussion about pain points also be done with weapon / guild skill lines?

There are several frustrating passives, skills and overall balance which should be touched.

This is something that could spark an interesting conversation but I think the Class Reps are tied to make class-based suggestions.

Can you Reps also suggest to implement things related to other skills lines ( like Trapping Webs instead as a Caltrops alternative and maybe an Undaunted Ultimate that could be a viable alternative to Aggressive Horn for those who don't want to go in Cyrodil - which are, sadly, quite a few )?

We spoke to them about synergies and trapping webs, and we also mentioned an undaunted ultimate, actually! Not directly in the same sense as you did here, but we mentioned it.

LonePirate

BohnT wrote: »

Heals like power lash or Burning Ember?
I don't know what you are trying to say but magdk has great healing and survivability that is in fact much better than the stamina counterpart.

I want to play on your server where Power Lash is not bugged and other players aren’t using immovable pots or the unstoppable skill and pretty much just stand there and let you set up the pre-conditions to activate Power Lash. Sounds like a breeze wherever you play!

BohnT

LonePirate wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Heals like power lash or Burning Ember?
I don't know what you are trying to say but magdk has great healing and survivability that is in fact much better than the stamina counterpart.

I want to play on your server where Power Lash is not bugged and other players aren’t using immovable pots or the unstoppable skill and pretty much just stand there and let you set up the pre-conditions to activate Power Lash. Sounds like a breeze wherever you play!

Which power lash bug are you Talking About?

there are so many ways to proc it on cooldown roots, cc, shock Damage, duoing with a medium armor build that uses 120 atro cps.

if you fail to make good use of Whip/embers at this point with a GO and rank 30 magdk i think you should Focus more on playing rather then leeching ap

mr_wazzabi

@masel92

Btw thanks for acknowledging the 2h light attack and forceful non crit issue.

I have another question about arena weapons. Vma, master, asylum.

With cwc they all got nerfed by losing the 1pc wd/sd bonus. With summerset, many of us expected them to be reimplemented due to each weapon set being 2 pieces. However, it was not, and they all have a nonsensical 2 pc bonus only.

Was the arena weapon issue discussed? It presents a huge issue for those wishing to frontbar something like a vma, master or asylum greatsword. The 1pc wd/sd/crit/resource bonus would have made it equal to a monster set, but without it, arena weapons like all three 2h, masters and asylum bow, all 3 dw, masters and asylum destro staff get trumped by running the respective weapon with a 5pc set.

As arenas are among the hardest content in the game, they should at least equal the performance of monster sets, if not slightly outperform them. Vma is always going to be harder than the vet dungeons that have meta monster sets (coa, selene, cos, coh)

Thorstienn

Masel92 wrote: »

Weps wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Will the discussion about pain points also be done with weapon / guild skill lines?

There are several frustrating passives, skills and overall balance which should be touched.

This is something that could spark an interesting conversation but I think the Class Reps are tied to make class-based suggestions.

Can you Reps also suggest to implement things related to other skills lines ( like Trapping Webs instead as a Caltrops alternative and maybe an Undaunted Ultimate that could be a viable alternative to Aggressive Horn for those who don't want to go in Cyrodil - which are, sadly, quite a few )?

We spoke to them about synergies and trapping webs, and we also mentioned an undaunted ultimate, actually! Not directly in the same sense as you did here, but we mentioned it.

This bit right here makes me more happy than all the rest.
The worst scenario in my mind, is the class reps go through all this effort to only "fix" classes, when many issues could be fixed in other ways.
Lack of class/role identity: lock PVP skills to PVP, tanks and healers can run different ultimate, stam DPS backbar gets a slight change. (Of course some tweaking would be needed; e.g a stam heal, class based or general)
Snares: they love their major/minor buffs, whack them in already.
Those are just a couple of small example/ideas, as in sure you all know plenty.
But in my mind, when we see common themes (like snare issues), it's *not about giving a class more immunity etc, change the factor.
Keep up the good work.

*Edit

ZeroXFF

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*] Tanks want to aid the group, but the current mechanics of group buffs 1) limit to only 6 players and 2) continue to only hit the same 6 players upon further activations (it’s the old purge bug)

Please, do not make tanks buff bots. I want to tank, and I want to wear gear that actually buffs tanking, not the DDs. Not like there are any mandatory DD sets to help tanks. I would also love to use ultimates other than war horn without feeling like I'm letting down the group.

Masel

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

@masel92

Btw thanks for acknowledging the 2h light attack and forceful non crit issue.

I have another question about arena weapons. Vma, master, asylum.

With cwc they all got nerfed by losing the 1pc wd/sd bonus. With summerset, many of us expected them to be reimplemented due to each weapon set being 2 pieces. However, it was not, and they all have a nonsensical 2 pc bonus only.

Was the arena weapon issue discussed? It presents a huge issue for those wishing to frontbar something like a vma, master or asylum greatsword. The 1pc wd/sd/crit/resource bonus would have made it equal to a monster set, but without it, arena weapons like all three 2h, masters and asylum bow, all 3 dw, masters and asylum destro staff get trumped by running the respective weapon with a 5pc set.

As arenas are among the hardest content in the game, they should at least equal the performance of monster sets, if not slightly outperform them. Vma is always going to be harder than the vet dungeons that have meta monster sets (coa, selene, cos, coh)

While this wasn't addressed in the meeting, I definitely agree with what you wrote.

I made a thread on the day of introduction of summerset, but it was never acknowledged..