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[Class Reps] Meeting Notes - June 7
-
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Who on earth stated that Noxious Breath as a point in the class rep discussion that it is good in PvP, but bad in PvE? A moron and an idiot? It's much easier to land Noxious Breath as an AOE on more than one target in PvE because THEY STAND STILL. Noxious breath is garbage in PvP. Why? First and foremost because people move! Second, it is difficult to land because of the horrible hit box mechanics. People do not stand still like NPC's. That's not addressing the other faults Noxious has, or even Stam DK in general, but I don't waste any more of my breath.
Anyway, I think the rest of the pain points for Stam DK are decent, I guess. I'm definitely not holding my breath though, that's for sure.
Read this.Burning Breath cone also misses target. Noxious breath (stam morph) good for PvP, not as much for PvE.
Noxious Breath is good for its Major Fracture debuff. What you say is still there. It does miss the target. Burning Breath is NOT Engulfing Flames. It means both morphs. Magicka and Stamina morphs. Both. Not one. Both.
Is it clear now or do you need more info about the difference between Burning Breath and Noxious Breath?
It's still not a good ability in pvp.
The damage is pathetic, both the dot and the initial hit often deal less than 1k damage.
The range and hit box is crap (as mentioned), shalks apply major fracture as well but with much higher damage and a much bigger hit box.
I could go on talking about how the most viable stamdk build atm is using bleeds meaning he couldn't care less about enemy resistances or that there is simply no slot where you could use noxious breath.
I'm sorry but whoever said "noxious Breath is a strong ability in pvp, doesn't have a clue"
Also noxious flat out loses the comparison to engulfing.
Engulfing deals fire damage and gives a magdk a flat 10% damage increase, stamdk gets major breach that is accessible via many other skills.
Edited by BohnT on June 18, 2018 11:43AM1 -
Pelican✭✭✭✭✭i want to bring up that channelled acceleration does NOT proc the psijic order major protection passive when channelling it. please fix!PC NA - EP Solo PvP Player
https://www.youtube.com/c/pelicaneso0 -
Tasear✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭IMHO, not enough focus yet on keeping healers relevant in PVE.
It tilts me how much content I've helped people achieve on my healer, only to hear always '3 dps for HM.' Yeah well fine then. You're welcome for the clear, no deaths (so many attempts because people don't think) & speed.
I'll just chill here with my dlc dungeons achs . 3/4 done and look at your pretty skins.
Thanks for that.
Thankfully, I have friends who will go with me even so because I'm actually a good healer who does my other jobs xD
But still- it stinks that it is more and more like this.
I think that either PVE players' damage needs a nerf across the board, or self heals/shields in PVE need a nerf, or dungeon mechanics need to be buffed/balanced between almost no real damage and one shot mechanics.
Self heals and shields mitigate the low damage as it is now and no one can heal through someone making a mistake and being one shot.
Furthermore - this means over time less healers playing because we only get places in raids and THAT is only 1-2 out of 12, so why even play a healer if that's it?
I don't want to do basically nothing on my healer but a few trials a week and writs. I'm actually lucky in that I get to run trials and get a spot. Not just being a placeholder for someone not showing up, but a LOT and I mean most of healers, don't even get to play unless they queue pledges or are playing always easier content.
There has to be some kind of change or what is even the point?
It was definitely mentioned as a top concern for healers during the meeting.1 -
BlazingDynamo✭✭✭✭✭I'm happy with this. Even if it was just a discussion. Much love to whoever brought up the pain points of a NB tank, specifically stamia based. I love you.0 -
Kronuxx✭✭✭✭Who on earth stated that Noxious Breath as a point in the class rep discussion that it is good in PvP, but bad in PvE? A moron and an idiot? It's much easier to land Noxious Breath as an AOE on more than one target in PvE because THEY STAND STILL. Noxious breath is garbage in PvP. Why? First and foremost because people move! Second, it is difficult to land because of the horrible hit box mechanics. People do not stand still like NPC's. That's not addressing the other faults Noxious has, or even Stam DK in general, but I don't waste any more of my breath.
Anyway, I think the rest of the pain points for Stam DK are decent, I guess. I'm definitely not holding my breath though, that's for sure.
Read this.Burning Breath cone also misses target. Noxious breath (stam morph) good for PvP, not as much for PvE.
Noxious Breath is good for its Major Fracture debuff. What you say is still there. It does miss the target. Burning Breath is NOT Engulfing Flames. It means both morphs. Magicka and Stamina morphs. Both. Not one. Both.
Is it clear now or do you need more info about the difference between Burning Breath and Noxious Breath?
I did read that, and I understood completely. I understand that Burning Breath, the base skill, applies the same mechanics in regards to landing hit boxes for both Noxious Breath and Engulfing Flames. That still doesn't dispute the fact that the statement "Noxious Breath (stam morph) good for PvP, not as much for PvE" is wrong. Now if it read as I think you're trying to point out as: "Major fracture debuff of Noxious Breath, good for PvP, not as much for PvE", then sure, I guess (it is actually good for PvE too though), but that's a given. That's like making the statement "Major Heroism of Shimmering Shield, is good for PvP, not as much for PvE". I mean, isn't that a given as well in regards to PvP? Doesn't that go without saying for practically every buff or debuff you or the enemy receives respectively in the setting of PvP?
So, yes my statement still holds, that Noxious Breath, is still crap for PvP. Which, by the way, is exactly why I said "That's not addressing the other faults Noxious has, or even Stam DK in general, but I don't want to waste any more of my breath" in the statement you quoted of me. Also, oddly enough, it is good for PvE, since not many skills apply an AOE Major Fracture debuff. Of course there is nothing AOE about Noxious Breath when it comes to PvP, because as hard as it is to land on one player, it is exponentially harder to land on more than one person and plan it that way. If it ever does land on more than one person, it is because it is by accident and the poor bystander who also got hit, who is not the primary target, was just unlucky. But again, that almost never happens, which is why World In Ruin as a passive for Stam DK's is also useless for PvP.
Now, if we agree on the aforementioned here (which I believe you and I do), then we have come to a turning point here. I guess I will "waste my breath" as I believe this may fall on deaf ears again, but who knows, maybe I'll be proven wrong (I hope so, but again as I said previously, not holding my breath).
I propose ( you can kill three birds with one stone here):
A ) Increase the cone degree size and distance of Noxious breath. It will make it much easier to land.
B ) Increase the initial hit damage and the DOT of Noxious breath.
C ) Noxious breath should apply one other secondary effect, such as Minor Heroism (that way we don't have to take heroic slash if we don't want it. We could go Deep Slash. You know, the other morph, that almost no one touches).
Doing changes such as these, will not only 1) Make World In Ruin viable again for Stam DK (because now Noxious Breath is a viable Poison AOE ability to use) 2) It could negate the need for a stamina spammable and 3) Make the enemy players believe in that hearsay and gossip that Wrobel supposedly spouted about "DK's are a stand your ground class". If so, then give us the abilities to dominate that field of terrain immediately within our grasp.Edited by Kronuxx on June 19, 2018 4:20AM1 -
Mureel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭IMHO, not enough focus yet on keeping healers relevant in PVE.
It tilts me how much content I've helped people achieve on my healer, only to hear always '3 dps for HM.' Yeah well fine then. You're welcome for the clear, no deaths (so many attempts because people don't think) & speed.
I'll just chill here with my dlc dungeons achs . 3/4 done and look at your pretty skins.
Thanks for that.
Thankfully, I have friends who will go with me even so because I'm actually a good healer who does my other jobs xD
But still- it stinks that it is more and more like this.
I think that either PVE players' damage needs a nerf across the board, or self heals/shields in PVE need a nerf, or dungeon mechanics need to be buffed/balanced between almost no real damage and one shot mechanics.
Self heals and shields mitigate the low damage as it is now and no one can heal through someone making a mistake and being one shot.
Furthermore - this means over time less healers playing because we only get places in raids and THAT is only 1-2 out of 12, so why even play a healer if that's it?
I don't want to do basically nothing on my healer but a few trials a week and writs. I'm actually lucky in that I get to run trials and get a spot. Not just being a placeholder for someone not showing up, but a LOT and I mean most of healers, don't even get to play unless they queue pledges or are playing always easier content.
There has to be some kind of change or what is even the point?
It was definitely mentioned as a top concern for healers during the meeting.
I'm glad to hear it.
In the posted notes, it seemed mentioned, but the focus was definitely not toward PVE/Healers - but more toward Templar DPS/PVP which should take a back seat, given 1/3 our skills are heals.
More of one thing usually means less of another.0 -
Checkmath✭✭✭✭✭
✭Who on earth stated that Noxious Breath as a point in the class rep discussion that it is good in PvP, but bad in PvE? A moron and an idiot? It's much easier to land Noxious Breath as an AOE on more than one target in PvE because THEY STAND STILL. Noxious breath is garbage in PvP. Why? First and foremost because people move! Second, it is difficult to land because of the horrible hit box mechanics. People do not stand still like NPC's. That's not addressing the other faults Noxious has, or even Stam DK in general, but I don't waste any more of my breath.
Anyway, I think the rest of the pain points for Stam DK are decent, I guess. I'm definitely not holding my breath though, that's for sure.
Read this.Burning Breath cone also misses target. Noxious breath (stam morph) good for PvP, not as much for PvE.
Noxious Breath is good for its Major Fracture debuff. What you say is still there. It does miss the target. Burning Breath is NOT Engulfing Flames. It means both morphs. Magicka and Stamina morphs. Both. Not one. Both.
Is it clear now or do you need more info about the difference between Burning Breath and Noxious Breath?
I did read that, and I understood completely. I understand that Burning Breath, the base skill, applies the same mechanics in regards to landing hit boxes for both Noxious Breath and Engulfing Flames. That still doesn't dispute the fact that the statement "Noxious Breath (stam morph) good for PvP, not as much for PvE" is wrong. Now if it read as I think you're trying to point out as: "Major fracture debuff of Noxious Breath, good for PvP, not as much for PvE", then sure, I guess (it is actually good for PvE too though), but that's a given. That's like making the statement "Major Heroism of Shimmering Shield, is good for PvP, not as much for PvE". I mean, isn't that a given as well in regards to PvP? Doesn't that go without saying for practically every buff or debuff you or the enemy receives respectively in the setting of PvP?
So, yes my statement still holds, that Noxious Breath, is still crap for PvP. Which, by the way, is exactly why I said "That's not addressing the other faults Noxious has, or even Stam DK in general, but I don't want to waste any more of my breath" in the statement you quoted of me. Also, oddly enough, it is good for PvE, since not many skills apply an AOE Major Fracture debuff. Of course there is nothing AOE about Noxious Breath when it comes to PvP, because as hard as it is to land on one player, it is exponentially harder to land on more than one person and plan it that way. If it ever does land on more than one person, it is because it is by accident and the poor bystander who also got hit, who is not the primary target, was just unlucky. But again, that almost never happens, which is why World In Ruin as a passive for Stam DK's is also useless for PvP.
Now, if we agree on the aforementioned here (which I believe you and I do), then we have come to a turning point here. I guess I will "waste my breath" as I believe this may fall on deaf ears again, but who knows, maybe I'll be proven wrong (I hope so, but again as I said previously, not holding my breath).
I propose ( you can kill three birds with one stone here):
A ) Increase the cone degree size and distance of Noxious breath. It will make it much easier to land.
B ) Increase the initial hit damage and the DOT of Noxious breath.
C ) Noxious breath should apply one other secondary effect, such as Minor Heroism (that way we don't have to take heroic slash if we don't want it. We could go Deep Slash. You know, the other morph, that almost no one touches).
Doing changes such as these, will not only 1) Make World In Ruin viable again for Stam DK (because now Noxious Breath is a viable Poison AOE ability to use) 2) It could negate the need for a stamina spammable and 3) Make the enemy players believe in that hearsay and gossip that Wrobel supposedly spouted about "DK's are a stand your ground class". If so, then give us the abilities to dominate that field of terrain immediately within our grasp.
Just to make it clear for you what we told the devs. Maybe the notes dont show exactly what we said...
Our feedback regarding noxious breath:
Damage is too low, aoe major breach would be strong in pvp (in pve its mostly already given), if the skill would actually hit the target.0 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭IMHO, not enough focus yet on keeping healers relevant in PVE.
It tilts me how much content I've helped people achieve on my healer, only to hear always '3 dps for HM.' Yeah well fine then. You're welcome for the clear, no deaths (so many attempts because people don't think) & speed.
I'll just chill here with my dlc dungeons achs . 3/4 done and look at your pretty skins.
Thanks for that.
Thankfully, I have friends who will go with me even so because I'm actually a good healer who does my other jobs xD
But still- it stinks that it is more and more like this.
I think that either PVE players' damage needs a nerf across the board, or self heals/shields in PVE need a nerf, or dungeon mechanics need to be buffed/balanced between almost no real damage and one shot mechanics.
Self heals and shields mitigate the low damage as it is now and no one can heal through someone making a mistake and being one shot.
Furthermore - this means over time less healers playing because we only get places in raids and THAT is only 1-2 out of 12, so why even play a healer if that's it?
I don't want to do basically nothing on my healer but a few trials a week and writs. I'm actually lucky in that I get to run trials and get a spot. Not just being a placeholder for someone not showing up, but a LOT and I mean most of healers, don't even get to play unless they queue pledges or are playing always easier content.
There has to be some kind of change or what is even the point?
Was the #1 concern for healers.2 -
Kronuxx✭✭✭✭Who on earth stated that Noxious Breath as a point in the class rep discussion that it is good in PvP, but bad in PvE? A moron and an idiot? It's much easier to land Noxious Breath as an AOE on more than one target in PvE because THEY STAND STILL. Noxious breath is garbage in PvP. Why? First and foremost because people move! Second, it is difficult to land because of the horrible hit box mechanics. People do not stand still like NPC's. That's not addressing the other faults Noxious has, or even Stam DK in general, but I don't waste any more of my breath.
Anyway, I think the rest of the pain points for Stam DK are decent, I guess. I'm definitely not holding my breath though, that's for sure.
Read this.Burning Breath cone also misses target. Noxious breath (stam morph) good for PvP, not as much for PvE.
Noxious Breath is good for its Major Fracture debuff. What you say is still there. It does miss the target. Burning Breath is NOT Engulfing Flames. It means both morphs. Magicka and Stamina morphs. Both. Not one. Both.
Is it clear now or do you need more info about the difference between Burning Breath and Noxious Breath?
I did read that, and I understood completely. I understand that Burning Breath, the base skill, applies the same mechanics in regards to landing hit boxes for both Noxious Breath and Engulfing Flames. That still doesn't dispute the fact that the statement "Noxious Breath (stam morph) good for PvP, not as much for PvE" is wrong. Now if it read as I think you're trying to point out as: "Major fracture debuff of Noxious Breath, good for PvP, not as much for PvE", then sure, I guess (it is actually good for PvE too though), but that's a given. That's like making the statement "Major Heroism of Shimmering Shield, is good for PvP, not as much for PvE". I mean, isn't that a given as well in regards to PvP? Doesn't that go without saying for practically every buff or debuff you or the enemy receives respectively in the setting of PvP?
So, yes my statement still holds, that Noxious Breath, is still crap for PvP. Which, by the way, is exactly why I said "That's not addressing the other faults Noxious has, or even Stam DK in general, but I don't want to waste any more of my breath" in the statement you quoted of me. Also, oddly enough, it is good for PvE, since not many skills apply an AOE Major Fracture debuff. Of course there is nothing AOE about Noxious Breath when it comes to PvP, because as hard as it is to land on one player, it is exponentially harder to land on more than one person and plan it that way. If it ever does land on more than one person, it is because it is by accident and the poor bystander who also got hit, who is not the primary target, was just unlucky. But again, that almost never happens, which is why World In Ruin as a passive for Stam DK's is also useless for PvP.
Now, if we agree on the aforementioned here (which I believe you and I do), then we have come to a turning point here. I guess I will "waste my breath" as I believe this may fall on deaf ears again, but who knows, maybe I'll be proven wrong (I hope so, but again as I said previously, not holding my breath).
I propose ( you can kill three birds with one stone here):
A ) Increase the cone degree size and distance of Noxious breath. It will make it much easier to land.
B ) Increase the initial hit damage and the DOT of Noxious breath.
C ) Noxious breath should apply one other secondary effect, such as Minor Heroism (that way we don't have to take heroic slash if we don't want it. We could go Deep Slash. You know, the other morph, that almost no one touches).
Doing changes such as these, will not only 1) Make World In Ruin viable again for Stam DK (because now Noxious Breath is a viable Poison AOE ability to use) 2) It could negate the need for a stamina spammable and 3) Make the enemy players believe in that hearsay and gossip that Wrobel supposedly spouted about "DK's are a stand your ground class". If so, then give us the abilities to dominate that field of terrain immediately within our grasp.
Just to make it clear for you what we told the devs. Maybe the notes dont show exactly what we said...
Our feedback regarding noxious breath:
Damage is too low, aoe major breach would be strong in pvp (in pve its mostly already given), if the skill would actually hit the target.
I'm guessing when you say strong, you're giving it a positive connotation and not a negative one. Negative as in, it would be a detriment to PvP balance, because if so, well I have two words: Subterranean Assault. Which by the way does more damage as well.1 -
Checkmath✭✭✭✭✭
✭Who on earth stated that Noxious Breath as a point in the class rep discussion that it is good in PvP, but bad in PvE? A moron and an idiot? It's much easier to land Noxious Breath as an AOE on more than one target in PvE because THEY STAND STILL. Noxious breath is garbage in PvP. Why? First and foremost because people move! Second, it is difficult to land because of the horrible hit box mechanics. People do not stand still like NPC's. That's not addressing the other faults Noxious has, or even Stam DK in general, but I don't waste any more of my breath.
Anyway, I think the rest of the pain points for Stam DK are decent, I guess. I'm definitely not holding my breath though, that's for sure.
Read this.Burning Breath cone also misses target. Noxious breath (stam morph) good for PvP, not as much for PvE.
Noxious Breath is good for its Major Fracture debuff. What you say is still there. It does miss the target. Burning Breath is NOT Engulfing Flames. It means both morphs. Magicka and Stamina morphs. Both. Not one. Both.
Is it clear now or do you need more info about the difference between Burning Breath and Noxious Breath?
I did read that, and I understood completely. I understand that Burning Breath, the base skill, applies the same mechanics in regards to landing hit boxes for both Noxious Breath and Engulfing Flames. That still doesn't dispute the fact that the statement "Noxious Breath (stam morph) good for PvP, not as much for PvE" is wrong. Now if it read as I think you're trying to point out as: "Major fracture debuff of Noxious Breath, good for PvP, not as much for PvE", then sure, I guess (it is actually good for PvE too though), but that's a given. That's like making the statement "Major Heroism of Shimmering Shield, is good for PvP, not as much for PvE". I mean, isn't that a given as well in regards to PvP? Doesn't that go without saying for practically every buff or debuff you or the enemy receives respectively in the setting of PvP?
So, yes my statement still holds, that Noxious Breath, is still crap for PvP. Which, by the way, is exactly why I said "That's not addressing the other faults Noxious has, or even Stam DK in general, but I don't want to waste any more of my breath" in the statement you quoted of me. Also, oddly enough, it is good for PvE, since not many skills apply an AOE Major Fracture debuff. Of course there is nothing AOE about Noxious Breath when it comes to PvP, because as hard as it is to land on one player, it is exponentially harder to land on more than one person and plan it that way. If it ever does land on more than one person, it is because it is by accident and the poor bystander who also got hit, who is not the primary target, was just unlucky. But again, that almost never happens, which is why World In Ruin as a passive for Stam DK's is also useless for PvP.
Now, if we agree on the aforementioned here (which I believe you and I do), then we have come to a turning point here. I guess I will "waste my breath" as I believe this may fall on deaf ears again, but who knows, maybe I'll be proven wrong (I hope so, but again as I said previously, not holding my breath).
I propose ( you can kill three birds with one stone here):
A ) Increase the cone degree size and distance of Noxious breath. It will make it much easier to land.
B ) Increase the initial hit damage and the DOT of Noxious breath.
C ) Noxious breath should apply one other secondary effect, such as Minor Heroism (that way we don't have to take heroic slash if we don't want it. We could go Deep Slash. You know, the other morph, that almost no one touches).
Doing changes such as these, will not only 1) Make World In Ruin viable again for Stam DK (because now Noxious Breath is a viable Poison AOE ability to use) 2) It could negate the need for a stamina spammable and 3) Make the enemy players believe in that hearsay and gossip that Wrobel supposedly spouted about "DK's are a stand your ground class". If so, then give us the abilities to dominate that field of terrain immediately within our grasp.
Just to make it clear for you what we told the devs. Maybe the notes dont show exactly what we said...
Our feedback regarding noxious breath:
Damage is too low, aoe major breach would be strong in pvp (in pve its mostly already given), if the skill would actually hit the target.
I'm guessing when you say strong, you're giving it a positive connotation and not a negative one. Negative as in, it would be a detriment to PvP balance, because if so, well I have two words: Subterranean Assault. Which by the way does more damage as well.
Thats the way you read it and not how i said it. I was only talking about major breach tied to an aoe is strong. You are right, the same goes for subterranean assault, which gives that strong debuff and does good aoe damage, meanwhile noxious breath applies a strong debuff, but deals pretty much zero damage and is hard to even hit enemies with it.
Hope this now satisfies you. The strong is tied to the debuff, which when looked at is strong in a vacuum, especially because its aoe. But there is also the *** part with the low damage and missing thing.
And if i say strong, then i dont mean it is OP.Edited by Checkmath on June 19, 2018 8:45PM0 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Who on earth stated that Noxious Breath as a point in the class rep discussion that it is good in PvP, but bad in PvE? A moron and an idiot? It's much easier to land Noxious Breath as an AOE on more than one target in PvE because THEY STAND STILL. Noxious breath is garbage in PvP. Why? First and foremost because people move! Second, it is difficult to land because of the horrible hit box mechanics. People do not stand still like NPC's. That's not addressing the other faults Noxious has, or even Stam DK in general, but I don't waste any more of my breath.
Anyway, I think the rest of the pain points for Stam DK are decent, I guess. I'm definitely not holding my breath though, that's for sure.
Read this.Burning Breath cone also misses target. Noxious breath (stam morph) good for PvP, not as much for PvE.
Noxious Breath is good for its Major Fracture debuff. What you say is still there. It does miss the target. Burning Breath is NOT Engulfing Flames. It means both morphs. Magicka and Stamina morphs. Both. Not one. Both.
Is it clear now or do you need more info about the difference between Burning Breath and Noxious Breath?
N.Breath is nothing but good for PvP. In fact it being outperformed by sub assault is the reason you dont want a stamDk in your pvp raid.(and also stamDk is mostly a single target setup so having aoe utility doesnt even make sense in the first place)
Aaaand its often replaced by FoO which is a proof to why this ability is bad. The damage is simply pathetic.
Though Im pretty sure you already know all of this.
What Im trying to say is; If aoe fracture is so good that it justifies this ability being *** poor bad, then why not remove the debuff from it and make it actually useful?Edited by Ragnarock41 on June 20, 2018 12:34AM0 -
Liofa✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »
N.Breath is nothing but good for PvP. In fact it being outperformed by sub assault is the reason you dont want a stamDk in your pvp raid.(and also stamDk is mostly a single target setup so having aoe utility doesnt even make sense in the first place)
Aaaand its often replaced by FoO which is a proof to why this ability is bad. The damage is simply pathetic.
Though Im pretty sure you already know all of this.
What Im trying to say is; If aoe fracture is so good that it justifies this ability being *** poor bad, then why not remove the debuff from it and make it actually useful?
I am not sure why I still couldn't explain this.Noxious Breath is good for its Major Fracture debuff.
It is only good for Major Fracture which StamDK can only take from this or running 1h/s with Puncture. Nothing else provides Fracture. Fracture is good, skill itself is not. We said this many times during the meeting and it is right there in the notes.Burning Breath cone also misses target.Key abilities like Flame Lash, Burning Breath and Burning embers feel clunky to use (different ranges, cone not hitting hit boxes, et al)
^ These two quotes mention the targeting problem with Noxious Breath.Noxious breath (stam morph) good for PvP, not as much for PvE.stamina DKs don’t get much out of the class as some passives like World in ruin offer little value to them.
This means the damage is so low that we don't even bother using it in a PvE DPS rotation. Even with a passive that increases its damage by 6% (which is a huge number) it is still very low damage.
Yes, we know Sub Assault is better. Yes, it does miss. Yes, damage is low. Does it change the fact that Fracture is a good debuff? No. Did we say it is only good for Fracture? Yes. I quoted them above. Your concerns are already there.0 -
Gprime31✭✭✭✭I would like to see shuffle reworked....2-2.5 sec immunity for 4K?? When foreward momentum gets 8sec.... let’s get serious0
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BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Shuffle just gives you the snare removal on top of an great buff (no the base version of Momentum isn't something to write home about)
There has to be a reason to choose one thing over the other which is nicely done at this point if we ignore wardens for a moment.
Either you get more mitigation ( longer snare immunity
-> better kiting -> less damage taken) that you have to actively make use of with FM which is depending on your skill better than
the competitor
Shuffle that gives you more passive mitigation with major evasion but less actively useable mitigation to balance the RNG nature of shuffle and the weaker resistances you get a burst heal to work with.
That's why shuffle has a lower snare immunity than FM1 -
Gprime31✭✭✭✭
Shuffle just gives you the snare removal on top of an great buff (no the base version of Momentum isn't something to write home about)
There has to be a reason to choose one thing over the other which is nicely done at this point if we ignore wardens for a moment.
Either you get more mitigation ( longer snare immunity
-> better kiting -> less damage taken) that you have to actively make use of with FM which is depending on your skill better than
the competitor
Shuffle that gives you more passive mitigation with major evasion but less actively useable mitigation to balance the RNG nature of shuffle and the weaker resistances you get a burst heal to work with.
That's why shuffle has a lower snare immunity than FM
Makes 0 sense
I can be in heavy with 8 sec immunity
Or be in med with 2 sec immunityEdited by Gprime31 on June 20, 2018 6:51AM1 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Shuffle just gives you the snare removal on top of an great buff (no the base version of Momentum isn't something to write home about)
There has to be a reason to choose one thing over the other which is nicely done at this point if we ignore wardens for a moment.
Either you get more mitigation ( longer snare immunity
-> better kiting -> less damage taken) that you have to actively make use of with FM which is depending on your skill better than
the competitor
Shuffle that gives you more passive mitigation with major evasion but less actively useable mitigation to balance the RNG nature of shuffle and the weaker resistances you get a burst heal to work with.
That's why shuffle has a lower snare immunity than FM
Makes 0 sense
I can be in heavy with 8 sec immunity
Or be in med with 2 sec immunity
No you can't, in order to use shuffle you get atleast 2.5 seconds immunity.
If you can't understand what i described above I'm sorry i made it as easy to grasp as possible1 -
ErMurazor✭✭✭✭✭I played nightblade both in pve ad pvp, stamina and magicka. The issues brought up at this meeting just blows my mind!?!?! where are this coming from?0
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Gprime31✭✭✭✭
Shuffle just gives you the snare removal on top of an great buff (no the base version of Momentum isn't something to write home about)
There has to be a reason to choose one thing over the other which is nicely done at this point if we ignore wardens for a moment.
Either you get more mitigation ( longer snare immunity
-> better kiting -> less damage taken) that you have to actively make use of with FM which is depending on your skill better than
the competitor
Shuffle that gives you more passive mitigation with major evasion but less actively useable mitigation to balance the RNG nature of shuffle and the weaker resistances you get a burst heal to work with.
That's why shuffle has a lower snare immunity than FM
Makes 0 sense
I can be in heavy with 8 sec immunity
Or be in med with 2 sec immunity
No you can't, in order to use shuffle you get atleast 2.5 seconds immunity.
If you can't understand what i described above I'm sorry i made it as easy to grasp as possible
Heavy... foreward momentum 8sec
Med...shuffle 2-2.5 sec
Should I make it simpler for you?0 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Shuffle just gives you the snare removal on top of an great buff (no the base version of Momentum isn't something to write home about)
There has to be a reason to choose one thing over the other which is nicely done at this point if we ignore wardens for a moment.
Either you get more mitigation ( longer snare immunity
-> better kiting -> less damage taken) that you have to actively make use of with FM which is depending on your skill better than
the competitor
Shuffle that gives you more passive mitigation with major evasion but less actively useable mitigation to balance the RNG nature of shuffle and the weaker resistances you get a burst heal to work with.
That's why shuffle has a lower snare immunity than FM
Makes 0 sense
I can be in heavy with 8 sec immunity
Or be in med with 2 sec immunity
No you can't, in order to use shuffle you get atleast 2.5 seconds immunity.
If you can't understand what i described above I'm sorry i made it as easy to grasp as possible
Heavy... foreward momentum 8sec
Med...shuffle 2-2.5 sec
Should I make it simpler for you?
Opportunity cost, balance, choices do you know any of these terms?
Also it's always at least 2.5 seconds, you can't use shuffle if you wear less than 5 pieces medium and each piece gives you 0.5 seconds.0 -
Gprime31✭✭✭✭
Shuffle just gives you the snare removal on top of an great buff (no the base version of Momentum isn't something to write home about)
There has to be a reason to choose one thing over the other which is nicely done at this point if we ignore wardens for a moment.
Either you get more mitigation ( longer snare immunity
-> better kiting -> less damage taken) that you have to actively make use of with FM which is depending on your skill better than
the competitor
Shuffle that gives you more passive mitigation with major evasion but less actively useable mitigation to balance the RNG nature of shuffle and the weaker resistances you get a burst heal to work with.
That's why shuffle has a lower snare immunity than FM
Makes 0 sense
I can be in heavy with 8 sec immunity
Or be in med with 2 sec immunity
No you can't, in order to use shuffle you get atleast 2.5 seconds immunity.
If you can't understand what i described above I'm sorry i made it as easy to grasp as possible
Heavy... foreward momentum 8sec
Med...shuffle 2-2.5 sec
Should I make it simpler for you?
Opportunity cost, balance, choices do you know any of these terms?
Also it's always at least 2.5 seconds, you can't use shuffle if you wear less than 5 pieces medium and each piece gives you 0.5 seconds.
Should give 1sec per piece of med to balance it outEdited by Gprime31 on June 20, 2018 7:42AM1 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Shuffle just gives you the snare removal on top of an great buff (no the base version of Momentum isn't something to write home about)
There has to be a reason to choose one thing over the other which is nicely done at this point if we ignore wardens for a moment.
Either you get more mitigation ( longer snare immunity
-> better kiting -> less damage taken) that you have to actively make use of with FM which is depending on your skill better than
the competitor
Shuffle that gives you more passive mitigation with major evasion but less actively useable mitigation to balance the RNG nature of shuffle and the weaker resistances you get a burst heal to work with.
That's why shuffle has a lower snare immunity than FM
Makes 0 sense
I can be in heavy with 8 sec immunity
Or be in med with 2 sec immunity
No you can't, in order to use shuffle you get atleast 2.5 seconds immunity.
If you can't understand what i described above I'm sorry i made it as easy to grasp as possible
Heavy... foreward momentum 8sec
Med...shuffle 2-2.5 sec
Should I make it simpler for you?
Opportunity cost, balance, choices do you know any of these terms?
Also it's always at least 2.5 seconds, you can't use shuffle if you wear less than 5 pieces medium and each piece gives you 0.5 seconds.
Should give 1sec per piece of med to balance it out
It's already balanced...1 -
Gprime31✭✭✭✭
Shuffle just gives you the snare removal on top of an great buff (no the base version of Momentum isn't something to write home about)
There has to be a reason to choose one thing over the other which is nicely done at this point if we ignore wardens for a moment.
Either you get more mitigation ( longer snare immunity
-> better kiting -> less damage taken) that you have to actively make use of with FM which is depending on your skill better than
the competitor
Shuffle that gives you more passive mitigation with major evasion but less actively useable mitigation to balance the RNG nature of shuffle and the weaker resistances you get a burst heal to work with.
That's why shuffle has a lower snare immunity than FM
Makes 0 sense
I can be in heavy with 8 sec immunity
Or be in med with 2 sec immunity
No you can't, in order to use shuffle you get atleast 2.5 seconds immunity.
If you can't understand what i described above I'm sorry i made it as easy to grasp as possible
Heavy... foreward momentum 8sec
Med...shuffle 2-2.5 sec
Should I make it simpler for you?
Opportunity cost, balance, choices do you know any of these terms?
Also it's always at least 2.5 seconds, you can't use shuffle if you wear less than 5 pieces medium and each piece gives you 0.5 seconds.
Should give 1sec per piece of med to balance it out
It's already balanced...
Ok got your “opinion” . anyone else weigh in?Edited by Gprime31 on June 20, 2018 7:47AM1 -
Checkmath✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Shuffle just gives you the snare removal on top of an great buff (no the base version of Momentum isn't something to write home about)
There has to be a reason to choose one thing over the other which is nicely done at this point if we ignore wardens for a moment.
Either you get more mitigation ( longer snare immunity
-> better kiting -> less damage taken) that you have to actively make use of with FM which is depending on your skill better than
the competitor
Shuffle that gives you more passive mitigation with major evasion but less actively useable mitigation to balance the RNG nature of shuffle and the weaker resistances you get a burst heal to work with.
That's why shuffle has a lower snare immunity than FM
Makes 0 sense
I can be in heavy with 8 sec immunity
Or be in med with 2 sec immunity
No you can't, in order to use shuffle you get atleast 2.5 seconds immunity.
If you can't understand what i described above I'm sorry i made it as easy to grasp as possible
Heavy... foreward momentum 8sec
Med...shuffle 2-2.5 sec
Should I make it simpler for you?
Opportunity cost, balance, choices do you know any of these terms?
Also it's always at least 2.5 seconds, you can't use shuffle if you wear less than 5 pieces medium and each piece gives you 0.5 seconds.
Should give 1sec per piece of med to balance it out
It's already balanced...
Ok got your “opinion” . anyone else weigh in?
You have to sacrifice the only stamina burst heal in the game to use forward momentum. There you got the thing about choosing: either you go with shuffle (medium) and additionally you have a burst heal ability with rally, or you go with forward momentum without the burst heal and therefore you beed to build around some other source of healing.0 -
Checkmath✭✭✭✭✭
✭I played nightblade both in pve ad pvp, stamina and magicka. The issues brought up at this meeting just blows my mind!?!?! where are this coming from?
If you dont agree, you are free to raise your opinion in the nightblade thread, through the feedback form or by joining the nightblade discord.
0 -
Phelaen✭✭✭that graph for warden shows no concerns about the dps? how can that be if in the text part its a big part?
..0 -
Elusiin✭✭✭✭✭"We mused about how some lesser used abilities like the DK Obsidian Shard could be used to help create more of a unique stamina class identity.", please do not take a DK healers ONLY burst smart heal. It's bad enough it requires you hit an enemy to get the burst heal... If anything it should be improved for magicka healers, maybe make it an AoE burst heal that deals the most healing to closer allies, like healing ritual, but with a larger AoE range and scaling heal based on distance... Or give it to stamina users, but like greatly improve some other ability... Like could cinder storm grant minor evasion to allies inside? Or could cauterize proc more often with the same or SLIGHTLY lower heal value(maybe every 3 seconds) so it hits more allies more often? I don't know, but right now DK healers are almost viable in comparison to templar healers, don't take from us if it can be helped...1 -
Elusiin✭✭✭✭✭Interesting breakdown of pain points, though I have to admit some seem a bit off. Since when, for instance, are PvPers moving away from vampire? It's one of the most important toolkits for large group Cyrodiil fights, for instance. But whatever, we'll see where that leads.
I totally wouldn't mind Obsidian Shard being reworked, though. Stam DK completely lacks anything of value to offer a large-group PvP team, so if this skill were reworked to operate more like proxy/shalk that could seriously make them a more competitive choice to bring to raid. As it stands, though, if you're in a large organized PvP guild and running a damage-oriented stam build that isn't a Warden you're basically bringing your team down. Slight exception for stam sorc due to their ability to bring negates. Really that whole delayed-AoE-damage paradigm should be accessible for all stam builds, as it currently is for magicka builds.
Absolutely not! As a DK Healer main, who was DK healing before the latest improvements to healing on a DK, Obsidian Shard is one of our only smart burst heals, we cannot afford to lose it, if anything it needs to be improved to give us a better burst smart heal(smart as in we do not have to target an ally, like an oh s**t heal when an ally gets bursted down)... PLEASE DO NOT TAKE THAT FROM US, YOU WILL KILL DK HEALER!2 -
Nord_Raseri✭✭✭✭✭
✭being able to stay in werewolf form for much longer would be amazing. even in a huge fight the werewolf form runs out too fast unless you're in a group full of them. and it would be cool to roam around a zone in werewolf form for a long period.Veit ég aðég hékk vindga meiði á nætr allar níu, geiri undaðr og gefinn Oðni, sjálfr sjálfum mér, á þeim meiði er manngi veit hvers hann af rótum rennr.0
This discussion has been closed.