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[MAJOR UPDATE] ZOS Official Response on Whether Trading Gold for Crowns/Crown Store Items Is Allowed

DoctorESO
DoctorESO
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UPDATE 3: IT IS ALLOWED, AND ZOS CAN INTERVENE IF YOU ARE SCAMMED IN SOME CASES!
Greetings,

Thank you for your inquiry. The forums post you cited in your most recent response is our official stance on the matter.

Trading of in-game items for other in-game items is allowed; trading of in-game items for real-world money or other out-of-game items is strictly prohibited.


However, keep in mind that the player market in The Elder Scrolls Online is a "buyer beware" market, and not every trader is trustworthy!

When engaging in a trade with a player, it is best to ensure that the agreement occurs within an in-game channel such as text chat. If the agreement occurs outside of the game, Customer Support is unable to properly investigate – and if we can’t investigate, we may not be able to help!

If you find yourself a victim of a trade scam and have taken the necessary precautions to protect yourself, Customer Support may be able to intervene and investigate a scam trade. Click on this article (https://help.elderscrollsonline.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/6172 ) for further details.

As always, Please review the full Terms of Service and Code Of Conduct which is linked in this message for your reference.

Terms of Service - https://account.elderscrollsonline.com/terms-of-service
Code of Conduct - https://account.elderscrollsonline.com/code-of-conduct
Thank you for your continued interest and support!

Warm Regards,
The Elder Scrolls Online Team

Keep an eye on our official Facebook, Twitter, and website for upcoming news about The Elder Scrolls Online, including release-date info:
https://www.facebook.com/ElderScrollsOnline
http://twitter.com/TESOnline
http://elderscrollsonline.com

The above is from the same support ticket I mentioned in my original post below.

UPDATE 2
heaven13 wrote: »
To clarify, trading an in-game item for other in-game items is allowed; trading in-game items for real-world money or other out-of-game items is strictly prohibited.

But the question is...is a Crown Store item considered an in-game item (since it is found in-game) or a out-of-game since it's purchased with crowns ie real money? That seems to be where all the confusion is.

A Crown Store item is considered an in-game item.

UPDATE: IT IS ALLOWED!
To clarify, trading an in-game item for other in-game items is allowed; trading in-game items for real-world money or other out-of-game items is strictly prohibited.


For historical purposes, Here is the OLD official response from ZOS:

Greetings,

Trading gold for Crowns is completely against the rules, same goes for providing Crown Store items in exchange for gold.

Thanks,

Mykael

Elder Scrolls Online
ZeniMax Online Studios


So that settles the matter once and for all. No more ambiguity.

ZOS sent this response on 6/5/18 at 7:16 PM UTC. The support ticket number is 180530-003571.

Edited by DoctorESO on June 8, 2018 11:48PM
"DoctorESO" is retiring but is still around in another form! ;-)
  • DoctorESO
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    There is still an odd grey area here. Lets say I send 1 million gold to my wife's account via the mail system. All good, right? She wants to buy some furnishings for her house. At some point later that day, she gifts me a mount from the crown store for my birthday. Did we violate the rules? Certainly, neither of us would report the other, but is there an automated system in place to report us? Is this sort of legitimate exchange now a dangerous thing to do?

    If the answer is yes, then this opens up a huge can of worms for trolling. Maybe I perform a zone trade with someone for some platinum dust. After the legit exchange, the other party then "gifts" me a crown crate and I have no knowledge of it. Maybe I accept it, maybe not. What if he chooses to report me as a troll or revenge for some pvp the night before?

    It's nice that ZOS has issued a clear answer, but I'm going to be very careful going forward due to the potential for accidental and revenge reporting.

    Yeah, I wonder if they have automated detection systems in place. I'm sure they could at least run logs if they wanted to, just like they did to see who was exploiting vAS HM both times. I'm thinking that if someone tried to troll you by sending you a crown item, that troll would wind up getting banned as well, since it is against the rules to be on either end of a crown-to-gold deal.
    "DoctorESO" is retiring but is still around in another form! ;-)
  • DoctorESO
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    Astrid_V wrote: »
    If it's against the rules, then question is - how they are going to check who breaks these rules and what punishment they're gonna use?
    DuskMarine wrote: »
    DoctorESO wrote: »
    Here is the official response from ZOS:

    Greetings,

    Trading gold for Crowns is completely against the rules, same goes for providing Crown Store items in exchange for gold.

    Thanks,

    Mykael

    Elder Scrolls Online
    ZeniMax Online Studios


    So that settles the matter once and for all. No more ambiguity.

    they cant enforce this though??? they added the system they know about what itd bring

    I'm sure they can run queries on log files, just like they do now for gold sellers. I wouldn't risk it.
    "DoctorESO" is retiring but is still around in another form! ;-)
  • redspecter23
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    DoctorESO wrote: »
    There is still an odd grey area here. Lets say I send 1 million gold to my wife's account via the mail system. All good, right? She wants to buy some furnishings for her house. At some point later that day, she gifts me a mount from the crown store for my birthday. Did we violate the rules? Certainly, neither of us would report the other, but is there an automated system in place to report us? Is this sort of legitimate exchange now a dangerous thing to do?

    If the answer is yes, then this opens up a huge can of worms for trolling. Maybe I perform a zone trade with someone for some platinum dust. After the legit exchange, the other party then "gifts" me a crown crate and I have no knowledge of it. Maybe I accept it, maybe not. What if he chooses to report me as a troll or revenge for some pvp the night before?

    It's nice that ZOS has issued a clear answer, but I'm going to be very careful going forward due to the potential for accidental and revenge reporting.

    Yeah, I wonder if they have automated detection systems in place. I'm sure they could at least run logs if they wanted to, just like they did to see who was exploiting vAS HM both times. I'm thinking that if someone tried to troll you by sending you a crown item, that troll would wind up getting banned as well, since it is against the rules to be on either end of a crown-to-gold deal.

    Easy enough for the troll to be on a throw away account. I'm just trying to examine the edge case scenarios in which this breaks down possibly against innocent players.
    Bal-Busters - PC/NA
  • Preyfar
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    Against the rules, nearly impossible to prove.

    Moving on :)
    People will just do it on Discord instead of in-game. Gifting isn't going to stop that.
  • kargen27
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    There is still an odd grey area here. Lets say I send 1 million gold to my wife's account via the mail system. All good, right? She wants to buy some furnishings for her house. At some point later that day, she gifts me a mount from the crown store for my birthday. Did we violate the rules? Certainly, neither of us would report the other, but is there an automated system in place to report us? Is this sort of legitimate exchange now a dangerous thing to do?

    If the answer is yes, then this opens up a huge can of worms for trolling. Maybe I perform a zone trade with someone for some platinum dust. After the legit exchange, the other party then "gifts" me a crown crate and I have no knowledge of it. Maybe I accept it, maybe not. What if he chooses to report me as a troll or revenge for some pvp the night before?

    It's nice that ZOS has issued a clear answer, but I'm going to be very careful going forward due to the potential for accidental and revenge reporting.

    I would guess that you and your wife are safe.

    I would also guess ZoS knows there will be times when friends that send each other gold might also send these items. The rule is probably in place so they can deal with a person who might spam zone chat looking to trade an item for a large amount of in game gold. In short the rule probably isn't in place for the occasional gifter?
  • DoctorESO
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    Preyfar wrote: »
    Against the rules, nearly impossible to prove.

    Moving on :)
    People will just do it on Discord instead of in-game. Gifting isn't going to stop that.

    What about log files that show gold being transferred and crown store items being gifted shortly after? Or even log files that show mass amounts of gold being transferred? Isn't that the typical flag used to detect gold sellers?
    "DoctorESO" is retiring but is still around in another form! ;-)
  • redspecter23
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    I pretty much thought that it was a given that exchanging crowns for gold was against the terms of service. People are still going to do it anyway.

    I'm sure some people will do it and many might get away with it. There will always be a chance that ZOS can come in and perma ban you at any point after the exchange. If it's against the rules, they have the right to do it. I have concerns that they have a system in place to send gold to a player via mail or in person trade and they have a system in place to gift crown items to a player, but if you use one of them with a player, you are essentially locked out of doing the other or else you violate the rules. How long after I've gifted an item to a player do I have to wait before I'm allowed to accept any gold or in game items from them without fear of a ban to one or both of us? Is there a time limit? If I deposit gold in my guild bank, am I unable to receive gifts from the guild master any time after that deposit takes place?
    Bal-Busters - PC/NA
  • degarmo_ESO
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    Preyfar wrote: »
    Against the rules, nearly impossible to prove.

    Moving on :)
    People will just do it on Discord instead of in-game. Gifting isn't going to stop that.

    I agree. Like the person said above, it's just a safeguard for the company. There's no way to stop it.
  • DuskMarine
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    DoctorESO wrote: »
    Astrid_V wrote: »
    If it's against the rules, then question is - how they are going to check who breaks these rules and what punishment they're gonna use?
    DuskMarine wrote: »
    DoctorESO wrote: »
    Here is the official response from ZOS:

    Greetings,

    Trading gold for Crowns is completely against the rules, same goes for providing Crown Store items in exchange for gold.

    Thanks,

    Mykael

    Elder Scrolls Online
    ZeniMax Online Studios


    So that settles the matter once and for all. No more ambiguity.

    they cant enforce this though??? they added the system they know about what itd bring

    I'm sure they can run queries on log files, just like they do now for gold sellers. I wouldn't risk it.

    unless the two doing the transaction reported each other they would have no proof at all. its completely unproveable which would just turn into hearsay which at that point could turn into a unfair ban due to lack of evidence. especially if discord or teamspeak are involved then they have zero evidence just a guy that couldve gotten a decent amount of gold for something or other and a guy got a crown store item. they cant link the 2.
  • DoctorESO
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    DuskMarine wrote: »
    DoctorESO wrote: »
    Astrid_V wrote: »
    If it's against the rules, then question is - how they are going to check who breaks these rules and what punishment they're gonna use?
    DuskMarine wrote: »
    DoctorESO wrote: »
    Here is the official response from ZOS:

    Greetings,

    Trading gold for Crowns is completely against the rules, same goes for providing Crown Store items in exchange for gold.

    Thanks,

    Mykael

    Elder Scrolls Online
    ZeniMax Online Studios


    So that settles the matter once and for all. No more ambiguity.

    they cant enforce this though??? they added the system they know about what itd bring

    I'm sure they can run queries on log files, just like they do now for gold sellers. I wouldn't risk it.

    unless the two doing the transaction reported each other they would have no proof at all. its completely unproveable which would just turn into hearsay which at that point could turn into a unfair ban due to lack of evidence. especially if discord or teamspeak are involved then they have zero evidence just a guy that couldve gotten a decent amount of gold for something or other and a guy got a crown store item. they cant link the 2.

    So how do they detect and ban regular gold sellers then? GW2 does something similar. Transfers of gold are flagged.
    "DoctorESO" is retiring but is still around in another form! ;-)
  • DoctorESO
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    Don't forget that integrity is what you do when no one is watching.
    "DoctorESO" is retiring but is still around in another form! ;-)
  • DuskMarine
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    DoctorESO wrote: »
    DuskMarine wrote: »
    DoctorESO wrote: »
    Astrid_V wrote: »
    If it's against the rules, then question is - how they are going to check who breaks these rules and what punishment they're gonna use?
    DuskMarine wrote: »
    DoctorESO wrote: »
    Here is the official response from ZOS:

    Greetings,

    Trading gold for Crowns is completely against the rules, same goes for providing Crown Store items in exchange for gold.

    Thanks,

    Mykael

    Elder Scrolls Online
    ZeniMax Online Studios


    So that settles the matter once and for all. No more ambiguity.

    they cant enforce this though??? they added the system they know about what itd bring

    I'm sure they can run queries on log files, just like they do now for gold sellers. I wouldn't risk it.

    unless the two doing the transaction reported each other they would have no proof at all. its completely unproveable which would just turn into hearsay which at that point could turn into a unfair ban due to lack of evidence. especially if discord or teamspeak are involved then they have zero evidence just a guy that couldve gotten a decent amount of gold for something or other and a guy got a crown store item. they cant link the 2.

    So how do they detect and ban regular gold sellers then? GW2 does something similar. Transfers of gold are flagged.

    they ban them by pure educated guess in which about 50% of them get unbanned. so its not a reliable system(they were ganking guild masters of trade guilds due to this very system and its guildies).
  • DoctorESO
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    Left4Daud wrote: »
    Great that you got a response but I’d prefer to hear from either Gina or Jess on this. Support is great, but they can give conflicting answers based on who in support you talk to.

    It's from Mykael. That's the person who seems to handle all the special requests related to crown store items, from the other threads out there. So someone with knowledge and authority, I think. Not just a random customer service person who read my ticket that day.

    How would we get Gina or Jess to respond? Can you help?
    Edited by DoctorESO on June 5, 2018 11:10PM
    "DoctorESO" is retiring but is still around in another form! ;-)
  • DuskMarine
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    DoctorESO wrote: »
    Left4Daud wrote: »
    Great that you got a response but I’d prefer to hear from either Gina or Jess on this. Support is great, but they can give conflicting answers based on who in support you talk to.

    It's from Mykael. That's the person who seems to handle all the special requests related to crown store items, from the other threads out there. So someone with knowledge and authority, I think. Not just a random customer service person who read my ticket that day.

    How would we get Gina or Jess to respond? Can you help?

    if it was from support then its likely just gonna be the same cookie cutter answer. even though i still dont think they can easily police this
  • DoctorESO
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    DuskMarine wrote: »
    DoctorESO wrote: »
    Left4Daud wrote: »
    Great that you got a response but I’d prefer to hear from either Gina or Jess on this. Support is great, but they can give conflicting answers based on who in support you talk to.

    It's from Mykael. That's the person who seems to handle all the special requests related to crown store items, from the other threads out there. So someone with knowledge and authority, I think. Not just a random customer service person who read my ticket that day.

    How would we get Gina or Jess to respond? Can you help?

    if it was from support then its likely just gonna be the same cookie cutter answer. even though i still dont think they can easily police this

    I received a cookie cutter answer from someone else, but it didn't really answer the question. They just said that there's no way to exchange gold for crowns. Then I asked a follow-up question, clarifying my original question, and my ticket took a long time to get a response. It was routed to someone else (Mykael), based on a hidden status update.
    "DoctorESO" is retiring but is still around in another form! ;-)
  • DuskMarine
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    DoctorESO wrote: »
    DuskMarine wrote: »
    DoctorESO wrote: »
    Left4Daud wrote: »
    Great that you got a response but I’d prefer to hear from either Gina or Jess on this. Support is great, but they can give conflicting answers based on who in support you talk to.

    It's from Mykael. That's the person who seems to handle all the special requests related to crown store items, from the other threads out there. So someone with knowledge and authority, I think. Not just a random customer service person who read my ticket that day.

    How would we get Gina or Jess to respond? Can you help?

    if it was from support then its likely just gonna be the same cookie cutter answer. even though i still dont think they can easily police this

    I received a cookie cutter answer from someone else, but it didn't really answer the question. They just said that there's no way to exchange gold for crowns. Then I asked a follow-up question, clarifying my original question, and my ticket took a long time to get a response. It was routed to someone else (Mykael), based on a hidden status update.

    yea the support system doesnt really help much but its really the only thing we got cause they dont like chiming in on threads enough
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