moved

DaveMoeDee

Iselin wrote: »

So how official and well-informed is this Mykael person and is he the same person that thought it was OK to turn on RedShell without his higher-ups (supposedly) knowing anything about it? So many questions...

Dude, Mykael is very much part of ZOS. He is who I have interacted with when there were special ESO+ retention offers -- which I took part in and got the benefits promised in game. Mykael seems to be in customer service, not a dev who touches builds in any way.

DeadlyPhoenix

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

So how official and well-informed is this Mykael person and is he the same person that thought it was OK to turn on RedShell without his higher-ups (supposedly) knowing anything about it? So many questions...

Dude, Mykael is very much part of ZOS. He is who I have interacted with when there were special ESO+ retention offers -- which I took part in and got the benefits promised in game. Mykael seems to be in customer service, not a dev who touches builds in any way.

Which as we know, customer service doesn't always know what they're talking about.

I've seen Mykaels name myself and have even seen it several times here on the forums where people have had interactions with him. I don't doubt his legitimacy, only the legitimacy of his claim that it's against the rules to trade gold for crown items.

Hallothiel

DoctorESO wrote: »

SugaComa wrote: »

Wait so here is a scenario

Guild holds a raffle ... It's gold to enter

The prizes are gifts from the crown store

Does the whole guild get in trouble or just the winners ?

Your ZoS rep is a noob that needs retraining sorry

Officers have previously been sanctioned for giving crown packs and game codes as raffle prizes, so I would not take a chance.

Oh that is just bloody ridiculous.

Iselin

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

So how official and well-informed is this Mykael person and is he the same person that thought it was OK to turn on RedShell without his higher-ups (supposedly) knowing anything about it? So many questions...

Dude, Mykael is very much part of ZOS. He is who I have interacted with when there were special ESO+ retention offers -- which I took part in and got the benefits promised in game. Mykael seems to be in customer service, not a dev who touches builds in any way.

Lol. I wasn't serious about him being responsible for the RedShell screw-up. Of course customer support has nothing to do with developing and releasing builds. The point I was making - which I think most got - is that the RedShell screw-up shows that not everyone at ZOS is on the same page. It's like any other company in that respect.

This ain't official until I see a green post in these forums.

ak_pvp

This is EXACTLY how it should work.

It is a GIFT system, not a legalized way of buying gold and shortcutting the economy, if you get "scammed" you should have no protections as you should not do it anyway.

If you want to do it anyway with a trustworthy friend, then fine, but if not. Don't. It is a good preventative.

SugaComa

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

SugaComa wrote: »

Wait so here is a scenario

Guild holds a raffle ... It's gold to enter

The prizes are gifts from the crown store

Does the whole guild get in trouble or just the winners ?

Your ZoS rep is a noob that needs retraining sorry

They've been doing that even before implementing the gifting system, it's been in game since like 2 years ago since it started you basically sent a ticket in and asked to get crowns transferred to another account lol

So basically they're reducing admin on their side by making it possible to do our selves now through gifting ...

I think that answers everything and shows Mykeal is clearly not in the loop on current policy

Juju_beans

Zos is not going to support this because the chances of scamming your gold is high, very high.

Eyro

Juju_beans wrote: »

Zos is not going to support this because the chances of scamming your gold is high, very high.

Agreed. They won’t support it because they can’t design a system to make this happen. As I pointed out a few post ago, they can’t even get gold deposited into the guild bank correctly a lot of time. They have next to no chance of pulling this off an interface that could do this correctly most of the time. So easy way out it is.

Juju_beans

Eyro wrote: »

Juju_beans wrote: »

Zos is not going to support this because the chances of scamming your gold is high, very high.

Agreed. They won’t support it because they can’t design a system to make this happen. As I pointed out a few post ago, they can’t even get gold deposited into the guild bank correctly a lot of time. They have next to no chance of pulling this off an interface that could do this correctly most of the time. So easy way out it is.

Sure they could..gifting UI could be just like mail...send the gift or COD the gift.

DeadlyPhoenix

Juju_beans wrote: »

Eyro wrote: »

Juju_beans wrote: »

Zos is not going to support this because the chances of scamming your gold is high, very high.

Agreed. They won’t support it because they can’t design a system to make this happen. As I pointed out a few post ago, they can’t even get gold deposited into the guild bank correctly a lot of time. They have next to no chance of pulling this off an interface that could do this correctly most of the time. So easy way out it is.

Sure they could..gifting UI could be just like mail...send the gift or COD the gift.

Well as I previously stated, they could but eventually they'll mess something up and cost themselves money. I know you weren't talking to me, but it's along the same lines.

They could make a transfer system, they may eventually, but probably won't. They'll leave it up to people in game to worry about. It's supposed to be gifting, not trading afterall. You trade and run the risk of being scammed. Which could hurt their bottom line which is why they don't approve or disapprove of it officially in their legal documentation and here on forums.

Edit*

Problems with duping come to mind and entire guilds being gifted the same item for a one time fee to one player. Obviously this isn't possible atm, but could with a trade system.

NickStern

They are going to do exactly as LOTRO did a few years ago they will allow the white knights who always kiss up to them to get away with it.

They will sanction the vocal people that speak out against actions they take that harm the game and player base.

It is just typical legalize nonsense to allow them to do so.

Eyro

Juju_beans wrote: »

Eyro wrote: »

Juju_beans wrote: »

Zos is not going to support this because the chances of scamming your gold is high, very high.

Agreed. They won’t support it because they can’t design a system to make this happen. As I pointed out a few post ago, they can’t even get gold deposited into the guild bank correctly a lot of time. They have next to no chance of pulling this off an interface that could do this correctly most of the time. So easy way out it is.

Sure they could..gifting UI could be just like mail...send the gift or COD the gift.

You can come up with all kinds of ways to do it. Im simply saying I have no faith in them to do it in a way that works flawlessly.

Elsonso

Hanokihs wrote: »

Semantics at play:

Technically, in-game crowns and crown items aren't real currency. If they were, it'd defeat the purpose of having to buy crowns in the first place; once purchased, crown items are in-game items. The statement you quoted is about gold-sellers selling in-game items for real-world money; there's nothing officially saying in-game money can't be traded for other in-game items.

Thanks to DoctorESO, we now know how to properly interpret that passage in the ToS.

Ihatenightblades

redspecter23 wrote: »

There is still an odd grey area here. Lets say I send 1 million gold to my wife's account via the mail system. All good, right? She wants to buy some furnishings for her house. At some point later that day, she gifts me a mount from the crown store for my birthday. Did we violate the rules? Certainly, neither of us would report the other, but is there an automated system in place to report us? Is this sort of legitimate exchange now a dangerous thing to do?

If the answer is yes, then this opens up a huge can of worms for trolling. Maybe I perform a zone trade with someone for some platinum dust. After the legit exchange, the other party then "gifts" me a crown crate and I have no knowledge of it. Maybe I accept it, maybe not. What if he chooses to report me as a troll or revenge for some pvp the night before?

It's nice that ZOS has issued a clear answer, but I'm going to be very careful going forward due to the potential for accidental and revenge reporting.

No this would not violate

sylviermoone

SugaComa wrote: »

Wait so here is a scenario

Guild holds a raffle ... It's gold to enter

The prizes are gifts from the crown store

Does the whole guild get in trouble or just the winners ?

[snip]

In the past, ZOS has given the warnings to the guild leader in these types of situations.

[edited to remove quote]

Gilvoth

NickStern wrote: »

They are going to do exactly as LOTRO did a few years ago they will allow the white knights who always kiss up to them to get away with it.

They will sanction the vocal people that speak out against actions they take that harm the game and player base.

It is just typical legalize nonsense to allow them to do so.

man that is shady and horrible, i hope that is not happen.

reoskit

I would love to see a moderator post, here in the forums, an official response to this. A guildie forwarded me a support ticket asking the same question that received precisely the opposite answer from the OP. Not my ticket; not my screenshot to share. Trust me or don't.

I'd just like a definitive, non-legalese answer. It's difficult to follow the rules if you cannot discern what they are.

Crimsonorion

Anyone play Star Wars Galaxies? When TCG came out you could trade packs with other players, so Sony Online Entertainment came out and said it was against the rules to buy packs with real money just to sell them for Credits, and about 2 months after TCG was released people were posting on the SOE FORUMS that they were "Selling Card packs" or "Selling the following Loot cards" a friend of mine spent 200 bucks on packs and made 20 million Credits ingame off it, SOE saw people doing it and did nothing. I would never do it [Buying fake money with real money...just stupid] nor would I tell other people to do it, but with so many loopholes I doubt ZOS could prove you were selling crown items for gold. I forsee in a few months you'll see the occasional "Selling X crown item for X Gold, PST" pop up on zone. Or as someone said in this thread, people will just use Discord or another forum like Reddit to make a Crown Store for Gold market

D0PAMINE

Vaoh wrote: »

There is absolutely zero way for them to enforce that lol.

Thats why it's against the rules, because it cant be regulated.

Syncronaut

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

There will end up being the in-game version of money laundering...doesn't take a whole lot of advanced thought to figure out how to work around this, if you were really intent on doing so.

I suspect when someone factors in their time, the gold > Crowns conversion rate won't look to appealing to legitimate players anymore.

How much gold is the typical person making in an hours' time these days?

Shady people (like from some mafia organization), can easy launder money via Eso.

They buy a account with stolen credit cards (or dummy account that they put money that was stolen into).
They get some crowns and trade those items for gold.
Gold is sold to goldtrading sites and they recive laundered money.

This is probaly the only posible reason that this is against the rules.

heaven13

Did this really get moved to the crown section without an actual comment from a moderator?

NickStern

heaven13 wrote: »

Did this really get moved to the crown section without an actual comment from a moderator?

Yes it did [snip]

[edited for bashing]

DuskMarine

@ZOS_GinaBruno need a word in here instead of it being brushed under the rug

AlienatedGoat

D0PAMINE wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

There is absolutely zero way for them to enforce that lol.

Thats why it's against the rules, because it cant be regulated.

Except it isn't against the rules. Not officially. A couple "emails" from a Support staff member is hardly a policy.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/417585/zos-you-need-to-change-your-tos-and-eula

Until ZOS makes this airtight, it's not against any rules, and their statements hold no water.

Elsonso

Phage wrote: »

D0PAMINE wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

There is absolutely zero way for them to enforce that lol.

Thats why it's against the rules, because it cant be regulated.

Except it isn't against the rules. Not officially. A couple "emails" from a Support staff member is hardly a policy.

Until ZOS makes this airtight, it's not against any rules, and their statements hold no water.

Maybe not, but they can suspend you for it.

MerlinPendragon

It doesn't sound like a very professional response. I'm skeptical.

reoskit

DoctorESO wrote: »

reoskit wrote: »

I would love to see a moderator post, here in the forums, an official response to this. A guildie forwarded me a support ticket asking the same question that received precisely the opposite answer from the OP. Not my ticket; not my screenshot to share. Trust me or don't.

I'd just like a definitive, non-legalese answer. It's difficult to follow the rules if you cannot discern what they are.

Can you PM the exact question that was asked and the response that was received?

I got permission from the person who submitted the ticket. For their privacy, I'm not including their ticket number.

Question: When gifting an item from the crown store, is it okay to receive other in game items or in game currency in exchange?

Response:
Hey there!
Thank you for contacting The Elder Scrolls Online Team. My name is Jayme, and I'd be happy to assist you today.

As long as players are not trading items for real world currency, you are free to gift items from the Crown Store in exchange for in-game items or in-game currency!

Please keep in mind that you may not sell, and you may not assist others in selling, Service(s) or in-game items for real currency, or exchange those items for value outside of the services, such as ESO Plus game-time cards. Evidence of any attempt to redeem downloadable content for a purported exchange, sale, gift or trade in the "real world" will result in the immediate suspension or termination of your account.

We recommend all of our players make sure that they are familiar with our Terms of Service and Code of Conduct to avoid any potential interruptions of gameplay. We take our Terms of Service and Code of Conduct very seriously, and violations of these legal documents could lead to a possible deactivation of a player's game account

Ley

Good to know their official stance. Doesn't change the fact that these trades will happen but now people know it's "trade at your own risk" and ZOS won't be there to help them if/when they get scammed.

Left4Daud

DoctorESO wrote: »

Question: When gifting an item from the crown store, is it okay to receive other in game items or in game currency in exchange?

Response:
Hey there!
Thank you for contacting The Elder Scrolls Online Team. My name is Jayme, and I'd be happy to assist you today.

As long as players are not trading items for real world currency, you are free to gift items from the Crown Store in exchange for in-game items or in-game currency!



This just befuddles everything. I am going to add this to the ticket I still have open. Can you PM me the support ticket number so I can include that as well?

This brings me back to my original comment in this thread. Great that support is giving answers, not great that the answers conflict.

treatz

I had submitted a ticket asking whether we could exchange crown store items for other items in game, including in game currency. Zos replied, telling me it was okay to do that. (see below). After seeing this thread, I submitted a reply, asking if the first had been accurate information...I was told no, it is bannable trade crown store items for in game items or gold(see below)...wth!
Hey there!
First response:
"Thank you for contacting The Elder Scrolls Online Team. My name is Jayme, and I'd be happy to assist you today.

As long as players are not trading items for real world currency, you are free to gift items from the Crown Store in exchange for in-game items or in-game currency!

Please keep in mind that you may not sell, and you may not assist others in selling, Service(s) or in-game items for real currency, or exchange those items for value outside of the services, such as ESO Plus game-time cards. Evidence of any attempt to redeem downloadable content for a purported exchange, sale, gift or trade in the "real world" will result in the immediate suspension or termination of your account.

We recommend all of our players make sure that they are familiar with our Terms of Service and Code of Conduct to avoid any potential interruptions of gameplay. We take our Terms of Service and Code of Conduct very seriously, and violations of these legal documents could lead to a possible deactivation of a player's game account


If you ever have any other questions or concerns, do not hesitate to contact us again! We'll be happy to assist you. Thank you for your continued interest and support!"

Second response:
Greetings,

Thank you for contacting The Elder Scrolls Online Team! My name is Kristian and it is my utmost pleasure to assist you today.

After some review of all the fine-print, it seems we may have mistyped in our last reply! As indicated by Mykael, trading gold for Crowns is completely against the rules. This includes items purchased from the crown store as well. Given that these items and currency are purchased with Real Money, to perform an exchange would technically be rule-breaking and may result in disciplinary action to be taken against your account. To be safe and avoid any negative repercussions, I would absolutely refrain from offering, requesting or facilitating exchanges of this nature. We do apologize for any misleading information but I do hope that clears things up for you.

At this time we will be setting this ticket status to "solved." Please do not let this cause you alarm, my friend! Should you require any additional assistance simply reply to this e-mail to resume our conversation.

We thank you again for your continued interest and support. Until we meet again!

Warm Regards,
Kristian
The Elder Scrolls Online Team