moved

ak_pvp

[snip]

I am not against the trading part, since gold sellers already exist, but the fact that they are nannying it is stupid. It shouldn't be "legalized" only decriminalized so that it doesn't become a massive thing trading gold for crowns such as in warframe. And if you get scammed, it should be your fault completely, no matter what.

[edited for profanity bypass]

ESO_Andi

Is there any distinction between something like crown-bought furniture and a costume?

The furniture exists as an item in your inventory, but the costume is an instant unlock that never enters your in game inventory.

mightyskrollan

This is totally crazy. While prohibiting gold selling and bot usage (which is ofc correct),
there's a now included way to sell gold legit through the crownstore.
As if it would mind if exchanging it to crowns which can be bought with money before, or directly.

That is all very questionable and should be revised as soon as possible.
For me it doesn't just look like there are tollerated ways to get advantanges over others - it also signals that zenimax itself is profiting by the misuse of that whole system with extra purchases and therefore income.

So there could be also simply purchasable gold in the crownstore right? Oh.. why not? Because it kills the economics and is unfair.. obviously.. or not?

Questionable..

Universe

The fact that ZOS allows this type of trading is very bad for this game.
It would have been better if there were some sort of limitations on the gifting, so it wouldn't get abused.
I will not be surprised if the game will go total F2P in the next few months(or tomorrow in E3 announcement ).

Elsonso

Universe wrote: »

The fact that ZOS allows this type of trading is very bad for this game.
It would have been better if there were some sort of limitations on the gifting, so it wouldn't get abused.
I will not be surprised if the game will go total F2P in the next few months(or tomorrow in E3 announcement ).

People like me expect that ZOS will never make a game that is not eventually Full F2P. It is only a matter of time.

I wouldn't even consider it a lie, or a future broken promise, if Matt Firor himself came out and said "Never!". I would just figure that, when he is ready, he will let us know that ESO is going Full F2P.

Jaraal

Whether you are for it, or against it, he side effect of all this is that it's another gold sink that will keep inflation down and the economy vibrant. And the most desirable stuff (radiant apex) will still be locked behind a RNG and bound to account.

They've found a way to reach the consumer who could not/would not pay for goods and services outright, by tapping even deeper into the pockets of the ones who can/will.

reoskit

Jaraal wrote: »

Whether you are for it, or against it, he side effect of all this is that it's another gold sink that will keep inflation down and the economy vibrant. And the most desirable stuff (radiant apex) will still be locked behind a RNG and bound to account.

They've found a way to reach the consumer who could not/would not pay for goods and services outright, by tapping even deeper into the pockets of the ones who can/will.

My understanding of the term "gold sink" is a way for gold to leave the game via black hole. Examples: buying houses, buy high cost items from vendors (not kiosk), kiosk bids themselves. This is when gold leaves the economy.

If players are trading gold for items, that gold is not leaving the economy; it's going from one player to another. Thus, it's not a gold sink.

Elsonso

reoskit wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Whether you are for it, or against it, he side effect of all this is that it's another gold sink that will keep inflation down and the economy vibrant. And the most desirable stuff (radiant apex) will still be locked behind a RNG and bound to account.

They've found a way to reach the consumer who could not/would not pay for goods and services outright, by tapping even deeper into the pockets of the ones who can/will.

My understanding of the term "gold sink" is a way for gold to leave the game via black hole. Examples: buying houses, buy high cost items from vendors (not kiosk), kiosk bids themselves. This is when gold leaves the economy.

If players are trading gold for items, that gold is not leaving the economy; it's going from one player to another. Thus, it's not a gold sink.

I was going to say the same thing. It is, however, something for players to spend gold on.

EvilCroc

We need a trustworthy system then. COD for crown items or something.
Otherwise it is unusable anyway.

Jaraal

Yeah, that makes sense, I guess I was more thinking of the fact that the people who hoard gold will have something to spend it on, although ultimately the gold will end up in the hands of those with the most disposable RL income.

Aeslief

reoskit wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Whether you are for it, or against it, he side effect of all this is that it's another gold sink that will keep inflation down and the economy vibrant. And the most desirable stuff (radiant apex) will still be locked behind a RNG and bound to account.

They've found a way to reach the consumer who could not/would not pay for goods and services outright, by tapping even deeper into the pockets of the ones who can/will.

My understanding of the term "gold sink" is a way for gold to leave the game via black hole. Examples: buying houses, buy high cost items from vendors (not kiosk), kiosk bids themselves. This is when gold leaves the economy.

If players are trading gold for items, that gold is not leaving the economy; it's going from one player to another. Thus, it's not a gold sink.

@reoskit is correct, gold sinks remove gold from the game entirely. However, you could consider gifting a useful crown sink. How many times have you seen a player, usually a subscriber, comment that they are sitting on a pile of crowns with nothing to spend them on? ZOS has the figures on unspent crowns gathering dust in players’ accounts, which is no doubt related to the rise in the crown prices of goods and the reduction in crown sales. Reducing the amount of unspent crowns in a way that provides value to not just one but two players could be a very good thing. If crown spend-through increases we may see a reduction in crown prices. Hopefully increased spending and decreased volume will encourage ZOS to offer better value from future crown store additions.

I can dream, can’t I? Nothing wrong with being optimistic, right?

Cêltic421

Aeslief wrote: »

reoskit wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Whether you are for it, or against it, he side effect of all this is that it's another gold sink that will keep inflation down and the economy vibrant. And the most desirable stuff (radiant apex) will still be locked behind a RNG and bound to account.

They've found a way to reach the consumer who could not/would not pay for goods and services outright, by tapping even deeper into the pockets of the ones who can/will.

My understanding of the term "gold sink" is a way for gold to leave the game via black hole. Examples: buying houses, buy high cost items from vendors (not kiosk), kiosk bids themselves. This is when gold leaves the economy.

If players are trading gold for items, that gold is not leaving the economy; it's going from one player to another. Thus, it's not a gold sink.

@reoskit is correct, gold sinks remove gold from the game entirely. However, you could consider gifting a useful crown sink. How many times have you seen a player, usually a subscriber, comment that they are sitting on a pile of crowns with nothing to spend them on? ZOS has the figures on unspent crowns gathering dust in players’ accounts, which is no doubt related to the rise in the crown prices of goods and the reduction in crown sales. Reducing the amount of unspent crowns in a way that provides value to not just one but two players could be a very good thing. If crown spend-through increases we may see a reduction in crown prices. Hopefully increased spending and decreased volume will encourage ZOS to offer better value from future crown store additions.

I can dream, can’t I? Nothing wrong with being optimistic, right?

Yes you can dream but i don't see zos allowing to gift gathering dusting crowns to other players. Would be nice but zos would loose money.

Cêltic421

DoctorESO wrote: »

Cêltic421 wrote: »

People seem to worry way to much about what and how others choose to spend his or her time and money. Who gives a *** someone has extra real life money to gift someone something from the crown store in exchange for some gold, really yo if you care that much about this then you need to get a life outside of this game. There is jack *** in the crown store that will affect anyones game play. Gold is easy and i mean it really is easy to obtain In this game if your try and take the time to do so.

Worry about yourself and less about others.

I don't think people were offended at the idea of trading crown items for gold...it was that people were afraid of getting banned by ZOS for doing it.

Maybe so but seem several threads and some post in this thread about how this makes this game p2w, unfair etc etc. Was my last thread of the day on this topic and guess i vented out.

Gronk

Is there Crown to gold conversion rate yet?

DanteYoda

So gifting gold for crown items is allowed because they are both in game items.. Seems accurate and fair.

Not hard to understand at all..

Just don't use gold farmers and you are A OK

Oberick

reoskit wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Whether you are for it, or against it, he side effect of all this is that it's another gold sink that will keep inflation down and the economy vibrant. And the most desirable stuff (radiant apex) will still be locked behind a RNG and bound to account.

They've found a way to reach the consumer who could not/would not pay for goods and services outright, by tapping even deeper into the pockets of the ones who can/will.

My understanding of the term "gold sink" is a way for gold to leave the game via black hole. Examples: buying houses, buy high cost items from vendors (not kiosk), kiosk bids themselves. This is when gold leaves the economy.

If players are trading gold for items, that gold is not leaving the economy; it's going from one player to another. Thus, it's not a gold sink.

The people willing to spend crowns to obtain gold are most likely going to spend that gold instead of hoard it. So the gold will still leave the economy, it just goes through an extra step. I'm sure some may "buy gold" for getting stuff off guild traders but the majority would be trading to get limited things like golden vendor/Zanil items. Possibly even houses if the gold to crown rate has it being cheaper to buy a home with gold.

Hokiewa

Syncronaut wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

There will end up being the in-game version of money laundering...doesn't take a whole lot of advanced thought to figure out how to work around this, if you were really intent on doing so.

I suspect when someone factors in their time, the gold > Crowns conversion rate won't look to appealing to legitimate players anymore.

How much gold is the typical person making in an hours' time these days?

Shady people (like from some mafia organization), can easy launder money via Eso.

They buy a account with stolen credit cards (or dummy account that they put money that was stolen into).
They get some crowns and trade those items for gold.
Gold is sold to goldtrading sites and they recive laundered money.

This is probaly the only posible reason that this is against the rules.

Lol creative but absurd. There are far easier, almost instantaneous ways to launder money but this isn't one of them

wolfie1.0.

Jaraal wrote: »

Yeah, that makes sense, I guess I was more thinking of the fact that the people who hoard gold will have something to spend it on, although ultimately the gold will end up in the hands of those with the most disposable RL income.

Actually gold in eso typically ends up in the hands of people who have a combo of disposable time and money.

wolfie1.0.

Since this is allowed I would say to all who want to undertake this that it is a high risk transaction. There is no UI or interface for a direct trade and no real way to guarantee the transfer. It's super easy to receive the gold and not gift the item or to gift the item and not receive the gold.

Dragonnord

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

To clarify, trading an in-game item for other in-game items is allowed; trading in-game items for real-world money or other out-of-game items is strictly prohibited.

My question is:

In-game gold is considered an in-game item? Or in-game gold is considered an in-game currency? Gina DOES NOT clarifies that.

So, again can we trade a crown store ITEM for in-game GOLD?
 

Merlin13KAGL

Dragonnord wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

To clarify, trading an in-game item for other in-game items is allowed; trading in-game items for real-world money or other out-of-game items is strictly prohibited.

My question is:

In-game gold is considered an in-game item? Or in-game gold is considered an in-game currency? Gina DOES NOT clarifies that.

So, again can we trade a crown store ITEM for in-game GOLD?
 

Asked and answered between her last two posts.

Yes

In game gold = in game currency = in game item. Crowns + Crown item = in game item.

Essentially, if there is no legal (not violating the ToS, not implemented by ZoS) way to convert the item back to IRL currency, it's valid.

If they are going to embrace this, they really need to enable the Gifting/Trade via CoD, or preferably face to face trading, possibly with an extra confirmation pop up with all details of the trade, requiring the "type CONFIRM" to proceed safety built in.

No quick change [snip] that way.

[edited for profanity bypass]

Dragonnord

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

To clarify, trading an in-game item for other in-game items is allowed; trading in-game items for real-world money or other out-of-game items is strictly prohibited.

My question is:

In-game gold is considered an in-game item? Or in-game gold is considered an in-game currency? Gina DOES NOT clarifies that.

So, again can we trade a crown store ITEM for in-game GOLD?
 

Asked and answered between her last two posts.

Yes

In game gold = in game currency = in game item. Crowns + Crown item = in game item.

@Merlin13KAGL sorry, but WHERE does Gina confirm that in-game gold is considered an in-game item and not an in-game currency? Can you please provide the link directly to where she confirms that?

For me, 10 gold is currency and 10 weapons are items. Gina says you can exchange items, not gold.
 

Merlin13KAGL

@Dragonnord , gold is an in game item (because it can only be acquired in game.) It is a specific type, also falling under currency.

They key part here, and the only one that matters is 'in game' portion of this. That's what makes it valid.

Currency (even the IRL variety) is simply a specific item used for trade. You could trade in potatoes or rubedo leather, but it wouldn't be very useful.

I'm not sure where you're ultimately trying to head with this, because it's been validated already. If it's not an IRL thing, then by default, it is an in game thing. In turn, this makes it ok.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

To clarify, trading an in-game item for other in-game items is allowed; trading in-game items for real-world money or other out-of-game items is strictly prohibited.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

heaven13 wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

To clarify, trading an in-game item for other in-game items is allowed; trading in-game items for real-world money or other out-of-game items is strictly prohibited.

But the question is...is a Crown Store item considered an in-game item (since it is found in-game) or a out-of-game since it's purchased with crowns ie real money? That seems to be where all the confusion is.

A Crown Store item is considered an in-game item.

reoskit

I think it's a bit too late to close the barn door; this horse has already bolted. This thread (and others) begged for an official, clearly defined stance on gold for crowns. We just wanted to do the right thing. The responses we got here are the best we've gotten and most folks seem to have interpreted them to mean that gold for crowns is ok.

I've seen plenty of that sort of trade happening and an attempt to go backwards now seems futile. The moment to take a stand and say "not ok" has passed. Until, ofc, they decide it hasn't. Sigh. Good luck out there, kids.

Dragonnord

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

@Dragonnord , gold is an in game item (because it can only be acquired in game.) It is a specific type, also falling under currency.

They key part here, and the only one that matters is 'in game' portion of this. That's what makes it valid.

Currency (even the IRL variety) is simply a specific item used for trade. You could trade in potatoes or rubedo leather, but it wouldn't be very useful.

I'm not sure where you're ultimately trying to head with this, because it's been validated already. If it's not an IRL thing, then by default, it is an in game thing. In turn, this makes it ok.

I'm heading to confirmation, I'm looking for confirmation, not to what people are trying to guess. Gold has been always in the game and it was not allowed in this type of situations, now suddenly it is?

Again, I read Gina saying allowed for in-game items, not for in-game currency.

Also, one of the Support Representatives respond to a ticket (posted in this same thread) saying "in game-items and in-game currency", so, if gold is and item, why naming one and the other separately then?

It's OK if you are 100% sure about the matter, I'm not.

@ZOS_GinaBruno could you please confirm if in-game gold is considered an item? Thank you.
 

reoskit

Dragonnord wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno could you please confirm if in-game gold is considered an item? Thank you.
 

Oooph. Good luck. We've been asking that question for weeks.

Dragonnord

reoskit wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno could you please confirm if in-game gold is considered an item? Thank you.
 

Oooph. Good luck. We've been asking that question for weeks.

Weird, because @Merlin13KAGL believes the matter is 100% clear.
 

WrathOfInnos

Not sure what the confusion is about, unless I’m misunderstanding something the rules seem very clear. You can trade gold or in game items for crowns or anything from the crown store. You cannot trade real world money for anything in game.

For anyone who thinks that crowns are equivalent to real world money, consider this: gold farming bots are created to make real world money, they do not benefit at all from receiving crown store items. They could maybe ride a fancy mount for a few days before that bot account gets banned, but any real world money has already gone to ZoS through the purchase of the crowns.

The policy allows for legitimate players to spend gold and get crown store items from other players, while giving no benefits to gold sellers who are only interested in receiving real world money.

reoskit

Dragonnord wrote: »

reoskit wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno could you please confirm if in-game gold is considered an item? Thank you.
 

Oooph. Good luck. We've been asking that question for weeks.

Weird, because @Merlin13KAGL believes the matter is 100% clear.
 

Lacking a precise answer on the matter, even after we've repeatedly requested one, I believe most of us have interpreted ZOS's responses on this thread to mean that it's ok.

If your post is miraculously the one that gets us a clear answer, I will find you in game and /kowtow. Until then, I wouldn't recommend holding your breath waiting for a definitive answer. Make your interpretation of the responses and run with it. That's what the rest of us had to do.


ETA: typo

Runs

Selling gold via the crownstore, is really nothing new. People have been able to do it, and more importantly have, with the addition of Crown Store exclusive motifs. The time to *** about it was when those where added.

So... Now that there is no question this is ok, can we discuss what the going Crown to Gold conversion rates are?

Dragonnord wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

To clarify, trading an in-game item for other in-game items is allowed; trading in-game items for real-world money or other out-of-game items is strictly prohibited.

My question is:

In-game gold is considered an in-game item? Or in-game gold is considered an in-game currency? Gina DOES NOT clarifies that.

So, again can we trade a crown store ITEM for in-game GOLD?
 

Asked and answered between her last two posts.

Yes

In game gold = in game currency = in game item. Crowns + Crown item = in game item.

@Merlin13KAGL sorry, but WHERE does Gina confirm that in-game gold is considered an in-game item and not an in-game currency? Can you please provide the link directly to where she confirms that?

For me, 10 gold is currency and 10 weapons are items. Gina says you can exchange items, not gold.
 

Going on with this line is just... Well, I wont say. But lets put it this way do you think they will ban the entire population of players? Anyone who has bought or sold via traders or player to player trading has used gold for in game items...

So if crowns are an in game item, like all the other in game items we have used in game currency to buy, then we can still use in game currency to buy these in game items.