moved

DoctorESO

moved

Aliyavana

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

To clarify, trading an in-game item for other in-game items is allowed; trading in-game items for real-world money or other out-of-game items is strictly prohibited.

so for clarification, I can buy a random person a crown item for ingame gold and its allowed? what if I am scammed, will my gold be refunded? or if im the seller will I get my crowns back?

vovus69

This is kinda strange - you bought it, so it is yours. You can do whatever you want with it, even to destroy it. This is the definition of the ownership. So response above is saying that zos not only wants the money for the item, they want to control its use in a future. irl this is against the law. May be someone will sue them at some point.... Would be fun to see.

-vovus

redspecter23

There is still an odd grey area here. Lets say I send 1 million gold to my wife's account via the mail system. All good, right? She wants to buy some furnishings for her house. At some point later that day, she gifts me a mount from the crown store for my birthday. Did we violate the rules? Certainly, neither of us would report the other, but is there an automated system in place to report us? Is this sort of legitimate exchange now a dangerous thing to do?

If the answer is yes, then this opens up a huge can of worms for trolling. Maybe I perform a zone trade with someone for some platinum dust. After the legit exchange, the other party then "gifts" me a crown crate and I have no knowledge of it. Maybe I accept it, maybe not. What if he chooses to report me as a troll or revenge for some pvp the night before?

It's nice that ZOS has issued a clear answer, but I'm going to be very careful going forward due to the potential for accidental and revenge reporting.

Marabornwingrion

If it's against the rules, then question is - how they are going to check who breaks these rules and what punishment they're gonna use?

DuskMarine

DoctorESO wrote: »

Here is the official response from ZOS:

Greetings,

Trading gold for Crowns is completely against the rules, same goes for providing Crown Store items in exchange for gold.

Thanks,

Mykael

Elder Scrolls Online
ZeniMax Online Studios

So that settles the matter once and for all. No more ambiguity.

they cant enforce this though??? they added the system they know about what itd bring

degarmo_ESO

Against the rules, nearly impossible to prove.

Moving on

redspecter23

DoctorESO wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

There is still an odd grey area here. Lets say I send 1 million gold to my wife's account via the mail system. All good, right? She wants to buy some furnishings for her house. At some point later that day, she gifts me a mount from the crown store for my birthday. Did we violate the rules? Certainly, neither of us would report the other, but is there an automated system in place to report us? Is this sort of legitimate exchange now a dangerous thing to do?

If the answer is yes, then this opens up a huge can of worms for trolling. Maybe I perform a zone trade with someone for some platinum dust. After the legit exchange, the other party then "gifts" me a crown crate and I have no knowledge of it. Maybe I accept it, maybe not. What if he chooses to report me as a troll or revenge for some pvp the night before?

It's nice that ZOS has issued a clear answer, but I'm going to be very careful going forward due to the potential for accidental and revenge reporting.

Yeah, I wonder if they have automated detection systems in place. I'm sure they could at least run logs if they wanted to, just like they did to see who was exploiting vAS HM both times. I'm thinking that if someone tried to troll you by sending you a crown item, that troll would wind up getting banned as well, since it is against the rules to be on either end of a crown-to-gold deal.

Easy enough for the troll to be on a throw away account. I'm just trying to examine the edge case scenarios in which this breaks down possibly against innocent players.

phileunderx2

I pretty much thought that it was a given that exchanging crowns for gold was against the terms of service. People are still going to do it anyway.

Milvan

Nightfall12

If I had to take a geuss this is the policy because it protects ZOS from when inevitably someone gets scammed.


Player A says hey i just sent player B i million gold so they would gift me that new sweet flaming pig mount.....and they never did!

Player B says sucka, go ahead report that you tried to break the rules!!

Preyfar

degarmo_ESO wrote: »

Against the rules, nearly impossible to prove.

Moving on

People will just do it on Discord instead of in-game. Gifting isn't going to stop that.

kargen27

redspecter23 wrote: »

There is still an odd grey area here. Lets say I send 1 million gold to my wife's account via the mail system. All good, right? She wants to buy some furnishings for her house. At some point later that day, she gifts me a mount from the crown store for my birthday. Did we violate the rules? Certainly, neither of us would report the other, but is there an automated system in place to report us? Is this sort of legitimate exchange now a dangerous thing to do?

If the answer is yes, then this opens up a huge can of worms for trolling. Maybe I perform a zone trade with someone for some platinum dust. After the legit exchange, the other party then "gifts" me a crown crate and I have no knowledge of it. Maybe I accept it, maybe not. What if he chooses to report me as a troll or revenge for some pvp the night before?

It's nice that ZOS has issued a clear answer, but I'm going to be very careful going forward due to the potential for accidental and revenge reporting.

I would guess that you and your wife are safe.

I would also guess ZoS knows there will be times when friends that send each other gold might also send these items. The rule is probably in place so they can deal with a person who might spam zone chat looking to trade an item for a large amount of in game gold. In short the rule probably isn't in place for the occasional gifter?

redspecter23

phileunderx2 wrote: »

I pretty much thought that it was a given that exchanging crowns for gold was against the terms of service. People are still going to do it anyway.

I'm sure some people will do it and many might get away with it. There will always be a chance that ZOS can come in and perma ban you at any point after the exchange. If it's against the rules, they have the right to do it. I have concerns that they have a system in place to send gold to a player via mail or in person trade and they have a system in place to gift crown items to a player, but if you use one of them with a player, you are essentially locked out of doing the other or else you violate the rules. How long after I've gifted an item to a player do I have to wait before I'm allowed to accept any gold or in game items from them without fear of a ban to one or both of us? Is there a time limit? If I deposit gold in my guild bank, am I unable to receive gifts from the guild master any time after that deposit takes place?

degarmo_ESO

Preyfar wrote: »

degarmo_ESO wrote: »

Against the rules, nearly impossible to prove.

Moving on

People will just do it on Discord instead of in-game. Gifting isn't going to stop that.

I agree. Like the person said above, it's just a safeguard for the company. There's no way to stop it.

VaranisArano

Whether or not they monitor it, this is what they'll point to when people complain about being scammed.

Got scammed? Too bad. Its against the rules.

DuskMarine

DoctorESO wrote: »

Astrid_V wrote: »

If it's against the rules, then question is - how they are going to check who breaks these rules and what punishment they're gonna use?

DuskMarine wrote: »

DoctorESO wrote: »

Here is the official response from ZOS:

Greetings,

Trading gold for Crowns is completely against the rules, same goes for providing Crown Store items in exchange for gold.

Thanks,

Mykael

Elder Scrolls Online
ZeniMax Online Studios

So that settles the matter once and for all. No more ambiguity.

they cant enforce this though??? they added the system they know about what itd bring

I'm sure they can run queries on log files, just like they do now for gold sellers. I wouldn't risk it.

unless the two doing the transaction reported each other they would have no proof at all. its completely unproveable which would just turn into hearsay which at that point could turn into a unfair ban due to lack of evidence. especially if discord or teamspeak are involved then they have zero evidence just a guy that couldve gotten a decent amount of gold for something or other and a guy got a crown store item. they cant link the 2.

Vaoh

There is absolutely zero way for them to enforce that lol.

Left4Daud

Great that you got a response but I’d prefer to hear from either Gina or Jess on this. Support is great, but they can give conflicting answers based on who in support you talk to.

DuskMarine

DoctorESO wrote: »

DuskMarine wrote: »

DoctorESO wrote: »

Astrid_V wrote: »

If it's against the rules, then question is - how they are going to check who breaks these rules and what punishment they're gonna use?

DuskMarine wrote: »

DoctorESO wrote: »

Here is the official response from ZOS:

Greetings,

Trading gold for Crowns is completely against the rules, same goes for providing Crown Store items in exchange for gold.

Thanks,

Mykael

Elder Scrolls Online
ZeniMax Online Studios

So that settles the matter once and for all. No more ambiguity.

they cant enforce this though??? they added the system they know about what itd bring

I'm sure they can run queries on log files, just like they do now for gold sellers. I wouldn't risk it.

unless the two doing the transaction reported each other they would have no proof at all. its completely unproveable which would just turn into hearsay which at that point could turn into a unfair ban due to lack of evidence. especially if discord or teamspeak are involved then they have zero evidence just a guy that couldve gotten a decent amount of gold for something or other and a guy got a crown store item. they cant link the 2.

So how do they detect and ban regular gold sellers then? GW2 does something similar. Transfers of gold are flagged.

they ban them by pure educated guess in which about 50% of them get unbanned. so its not a reliable system(they were ganking guild masters of trade guilds due to this very system and its guildies).

Conduit0

vovus69 wrote: »

This is kinda strange - you bought it, so it is yours. You can do whatever you want with it, even to destroy it. This is the definition of the ownership. So response above is saying that zos not only wants the money for the item, they want to control its use in a future. irl this is against the law. May be someone will sue them at some point.... Would be fun to see.

-vovus

You do not "own" anything in the game, ZOS exclusively owns every single pixel, you merely purchase the privilege of using those pixels and said usage is very much limited by the TOS. So this is not illegal and any attempt to sue would be laughed right out of the courthouse.

[snip] this stance is most likely just to try and prevent people from actively advertising to trade gold/crowns in chat.

[edited for bashing]

DuskMarine

DoctorESO wrote: »

Left4Daud wrote: »

Great that you got a response but I’d prefer to hear from either Gina or Jess on this. Support is great, but they can give conflicting answers based on who in support you talk to.

It's from Mykael. That's the person who seems to handle all the special requests related to crown store items, from the other threads out there. So someone with knowledge and authority, I think. Not just a random customer service person who read my ticket that day.

How would we get Gina or Jess to respond? Can you help?

if it was from support then its likely just gonna be the same cookie cutter answer. even though i still dont think they can easily police this

DuskMarine

DoctorESO wrote: »

DuskMarine wrote: »

DoctorESO wrote: »

Left4Daud wrote: »

Great that you got a response but I’d prefer to hear from either Gina or Jess on this. Support is great, but they can give conflicting answers based on who in support you talk to.

It's from Mykael. That's the person who seems to handle all the special requests related to crown store items, from the other threads out there. So someone with knowledge and authority, I think. Not just a random customer service person who read my ticket that day.

How would we get Gina or Jess to respond? Can you help?

if it was from support then its likely just gonna be the same cookie cutter answer. even though i still dont think they can easily police this

I received a cookie cutter answer from someone else, but it didn't really answer the question. They just said that there's no way to exchange gold for crowns. Then I asked a follow-up question, clarifying my original question, and my ticket took a long time to get a response. It was routed to someone else (Mykael), based on a hidden status update.

yea the support system doesnt really help much but its really the only thing we got cause they dont like chiming in on threads enough

Cpt_Teemo

They aren't going to ban people that make them money, lol

wolfie1.0.

vovus69 wrote: »

This is kinda strange - you bought it, so it is yours. You can do whatever you want with it, even to destroy it. This is the definition of the ownership. So response above is saying that zos not only wants the money for the item, they want to control its use in a future. irl this is against the law. May be someone will sue them at some point.... Would be fun to see.

-vovus

Under the terms of the TOS you technically dont have ownership of in game items. What you have is a license to access and use in game content. You dont exactly have true ownership of a product.

Yzalirk

Not that I am going to use the gifting system or anything, but what does the gifted get in return? A pat on the back?

DuskMarine

wtlonewolf20 wrote: »

vovus69 wrote: »

This is kinda strange - you bought it, so it is yours. You can do whatever you want with it, even to destroy it. This is the definition of the ownership. So response above is saying that zos not only wants the money for the item, they want to control its use in a future. irl this is against the law. May be someone will sue them at some point.... Would be fun to see.

-vovus

Under the terms of the TOS you technically dont have ownership of in game items. What you have is a license to access and use in game content. You dont exactly have true ownership of a product.

anything you buy with money techniquelly does belong to you cause you purchased it. there are many ways people can come out with things regardless of zoses terms.

Elsonso

DoctorESO wrote: »

Here is the official response from ZOS:

Greetings,

Trading gold for Crowns is completely against the rules, same goes for providing Crown Store items in exchange for gold.

Thanks,

Mykael

Elder Scrolls Online
ZeniMax Online Studios

So that settles the matter once and for all. No more ambiguity.

ZOS sent this response on 6/5/18 at 7:16 PM UTC. The support ticket number is 180530-003571.

Thanks for researching and posting the results.

Left4Daud wrote: »

Great that you got a response but I’d prefer to hear from either Gina or Jess on this. Support is great, but they can give conflicting answers based on who in support you talk to.

The thing is that Support and GinaJessKai are all equally official on this matter.

NickStern

I would not take that as proof of anything anyone with an ax to grind that does not like the addition of gifting can type out in bold print a supposed comment from some unknown in support.

Screen shot it and post it.

NickStern

Of course screen shots can be faked if you take time to create a fake. Posting it immediately after being requested would tend to indicate otherwise. Your answer says much.

Left4Daud

lordrichter wrote: »

The thing is that Support and GinaJessKai are all equally official on this matter.

@lordrichter

Yep. I wasn’t suggesting otherwise. Just saying that more sources giving the same answer would be beneficial no? Maybe not necessary, but nice to have.