moved

Aliyavana

lordrichter wrote: »

DoctorESO wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

hiyde wrote: »

reoskit wrote: »

I would love to see a moderator post, here in the forums, an official response to this. A guildie forwarded me a support ticket asking the same question that received precisely the opposite answer from the OP. Not my ticket; not my screenshot to share. Trust me or don't.

I'd just like a definitive, non-legalese answer. It's difficult to follow the rules if you cannot discern what they are.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

To clarify, trading an in-game item for other in-game items is allowed; trading in-game items for real-world money or other out-of-game items is strictly prohibited.

@ZOS_GinaBruno I'm still really fuzzy. Is trading gold for an item "gifted" from the Crown Store allowed or no?

IF yes, is it ok for guilds to "raffle" Crown store gifts as a prize for tickets purchased with gold?

The guiding rule in the past has been that guilds cannot prize anything that costs RL $$ (i.e. crown cards, subs) if it involves in-game gold. For example:

Giving away a crowns code for a horse racing event or to a random guild member = OK
Giving away a crowns code as part of a raffle where gold is used to enter = was not OK.

How does the above apply to Crown Store gifts?


i.e. is gold considered an in-game item in your answer above? It would seem yes...

While I appreciate that Gina took the time to answer, her answer is less precise than the reported response from Support, and contradicts it. I'm not sure that it clarifies the situation. If anything, we are back to square one.

I updated my support ticket with the conflicting support response (and re-response pulling back the original response) and the response from the moderator on this forum. I'll keep you posted with what is said in response to my ticket.

Thanks. If it results in a brawl between Gina and Mykael, best hope the don't blame you!

lets go gina! were routing for you!

MisterBigglesworth

Aliyavana wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

To clarify, trading an in-game item for other in-game items is allowed; trading in-game items for real-world money or other out-of-game items is strictly prohibited.

so for clarification, I can buy a random person a crown item for ingame gold and its allowed? what if I am scammed, will my gold be refunded? or if im the seller will I get my crowns back?

Exactly. You've just put your finger on it.

Aliyavana wrote: »

what if I am scammed

They don't want to hear about it. They can't or won't devote support hours to such requests.
That's why they're only implicitly sanctioning this, not explicitly doing so.

Aliyavana

MisterBigglesworth wrote: »

Aliyavana wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

To clarify, trading an in-game item for other in-game items is allowed; trading in-game items for real-world money or other out-of-game items is strictly prohibited.

so for clarification, I can buy a random person a crown item for ingame gold and its allowed? what if I am scammed, will my gold be refunded? or if im the seller will I get my crowns back?

Exactly. You've just put your finger on it.

Aliyavana wrote: »

what if I am scammed

They don't want to hear about it. They can't or won't devote support hours to such requests.
That's why they're only implicitly sanctioning this, not explicitly doing so.

I really hope more info is given

Aeslief

So can guilds now offer crown gifted items as raffle prizes?

Something similar was expressly prohibited in the past. As long as no real world money is changing hands, it should be allowed now, correct?

Tyralbin

I am currently running a guild raffle @ 2.5k gold per ticket which will be drawn at end of month.

There are 3 prizes 1st 2k crowns, 2nd 1k crowns 3rd 500 crowns.

The winners will get to choose the item(s) they want to be gifted.

All proceeds gained will be placed in the guild bank.

I have 23k crowns sat doing nothing.

Is this ok or do I need to refund the money?

Personally I cannot see the problem as this is historical crowns and I will not gain from it at all.

tim99

eso_nya wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

To clarify, trading an in-game item for other in-game items is allowed; trading in-game items for real-world money or other out-of-game items is strictly prohibited.

TL/DR:
To be on the save side, open up shops and advertise:
"1 Deadric Husk for 1m Gold. Every customer of this new shop, gets a special reward for the purchase: A crownstore item worth 1k crowns of your own choice!
Discount: Buy 6 Deadric Husks for only 5m gold! If u choose this special offer, your personalised reward will be a crownstore item of own choice for a whooping 5K Crowns!"

Too expensive. I've know someone who knows someone who doubles it. 6 Husks for 2.5m gold. And you get the same 5k crowns.
PC-EU only ^^

Eyro

DoctorESO wrote: »

Aeslief wrote: »

So can guilds now offer crown gifted items as raffle prizes?

Something similar was expressly prohibited in the past. As long as no real world money is changing hands, it should be allowed now, correct?

It sounds like this now falls under trading in-game items for other in-game items, which @ZOS_GinaBrown said is allowed.

There is a slight difference in the items themselves. Or atleast how you get them. The things they said no on before exsist outside the game. Even if they ended in the same in game item. Like item codes or game time or other cards. Those things exsist outside the game. Even if used for in game items.

In the exchange of gifted item for gold. There is no outside the game part being traded. It is all in the game.

Practically the only real difference I see is with codes and cards ZOS doesn’t know exactly where those came from. With gifts, they know exactly where they came from and that they got their money for them.

DeadlyPhoenix

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

To clarify, trading an in-game item for other in-game items is allowed; trading in-game items for real-world money or other out-of-game items is strictly prohibited.

Just so everyone knows, this does in fact say that you're allowed to trade gold for any crown store item gifted or trade the crown store items for gold. It works both ways.

According to their documentation crown store items are considered in game items and as such, we now know thanks to Ginas' post, are freely tradeable between players without action being taken against your account.

The problem comes into play when you trade anything in game for real world things; be it money, possessions, favors, status, promotions, etc. This is to prevent true gold sellers from making money, keeping the profits for ZOS alone.

You purchased the crowns with real currency. You're not receiving real currency if you're trading those crowns for in-game gold.

So, in conclusion, any raffle, trade, auction, exchange, or any other transaction between players as long as it takes place solely in game and all parties involved only gain from this in game, it is completely allowed.

That being said, you get caught selling anything and profiting from it in the real world could get you banned.

Edit*

The reason this wasn't allowed in the past with prepaid cards and such is because those cards do not exist solely in the game and can be used on things besides ESO. In this case you have already purchased the in game items from ZOS and so the money is already in their hands. If I win a prepaid card raffle in a guild in ESO, I could potentially use the card to pay for something on another game. So you're trading in game items for real world items. Crowns are already in game items bought with real world money. Use the card yourself, then gift the crowns to the player and there will be no issue now.

Tandor

Eyro wrote: »

DoctorESO wrote: »

Aeslief wrote: »

So can guilds now offer crown gifted items as raffle prizes?

Something similar was expressly prohibited in the past. As long as no real world money is changing hands, it should be allowed now, correct?

It sounds like this now falls under trading in-game items for other in-game items, which @ZOS_GinaBrown said is allowed.

There is a slight difference in the items themselves. Or atleast how you get them. The things they said no on before exsist outside the game. Even if they ended in the same in game item. Like item codes or game time or other cards. Those things exsist outside the game. Even if used for in game items.

In the exchange of gifted item for gold. There is no outside the game part being traded. It is all in the game.

Practically the only real difference I see is with codes and cards ZOS doesn’t know exactly where those came from. With gifts, they know exactly where they came from and that they got their money for them.

That depends on how they get the gold.

ZOS_GinaBruno

heaven13 wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

To clarify, trading an in-game item for other in-game items is allowed; trading in-game items for real-world money or other out-of-game items is strictly prohibited.

But the question is...is a Crown Store item considered an in-game item (since it is found in-game) or a out-of-game since it's purchased with crowns ie real money? That seems to be where all the confusion is.

A Crown Store item is considered an in-game item.

Elsonso

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

heaven13 wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

To clarify, trading an in-game item for other in-game items is allowed; trading in-game items for real-world money or other out-of-game items is strictly prohibited.

But the question is...is a Crown Store item considered an in-game item (since it is found in-game) or a out-of-game since it's purchased with crowns ie real money? That seems to be where all the confusion is.

A Crown Store item is considered an in-game item.

Thanks.

We can trade any in-game item, including fishing bait and Gold, or nothing at all, in exchange for a gifted Crown Store item.

reoskit

That's how I read it, too.

TheMythicDawn

turns out crown store specialist Mykael with all their "knowledge and authority" was wrong after all

can the support reps be given this public official clear response from Gina so they don't misdirect players again? that would be great

thanks

hiyde

ZoS has had multiple opportunities now to say that trading gold for crown store items isn't allowed.

So yeah, I'm going to agree with the interpretation that the answer is yes you can!

Whether you are for or against it, player gold selling has now arrived in ESO.
There is absolutely no way to get crowns without spending real life currency..

I definitely have mixed feelings on this and the ramifications it may bring.

Aeslief

Thank you Gina for the clarification!

The_Last_Titan

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

heaven13 wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

To clarify, trading an in-game item for other in-game items is allowed; trading in-game items for real-world money or other out-of-game items is strictly prohibited.

But the question is...is a Crown Store item considered an in-game item (since it is found in-game) or a out-of-game since it's purchased with crowns ie real money? That seems to be where all the confusion is.

A Crown Store item is considered an in-game item.

I love you Gina, ty for responding, and ty for getting the clarification.

olsborg

That opens up a can of....

Imhotep71

@Juju_beans is right.Lots of overthinking this going on

Her answer is pretty clear to me. Crown store items are in game items and can be traded for in game gold. They really should just go ahead and make the stuff in the crown store BOE so it can be put on the traders that way the people with more time than money benefit and the people with more money than time benefit.

Now to sit back and chuckle because someone will lose their mind over this post.

Runs

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

heaven13 wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

To clarify, trading an in-game item for other in-game items is allowed; trading in-game items for real-world money or other out-of-game items is strictly prohibited.

But the question is...is a Crown Store item considered an in-game item (since it is found in-game) or a out-of-game since it's purchased with crowns ie real money? That seems to be where all the confusion is.

A Crown Store item is considered an in-game item.

That is awesome that we are allowed to trade gold for crown store items but will you ever introduce a COD feature to the gifting to avoid scams or will be able to go through support if we get scammed in a trade?

Ley

We're being told on the one hand that trading crowns for gold is forbidden but exchanging crown store items for gold is fine. The fact that the answers we're getting are very vague isn't encouraging. Based on the information so far, I'm going to go with exchanging crown store items (aka crowns) for gold is 100% ok but for some reason ZOS don't want to come out and say it outright.

I still wish they'd just embrace the trade and add a CoD feature to crown store gifting.

Colecovision

Gina stated that it's okay as a general rule, but that doesn't change the fact that @DoctorESO has specifically been told that he can't. So his situation remains unchanged regardless of the fact that everyone else has been given permission. Just saying. : D

DeadlyPhoenix

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

heaven13 wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

To clarify, trading an in-game item for other in-game items is allowed; trading in-game items for real-world money or other out-of-game items is strictly prohibited.

But the question is...is a Crown Store item considered an in-game item (since it is found in-game) or a out-of-game since it's purchased with crowns ie real money? That seems to be where all the confusion is.

A Crown Store item is considered an in-game item.

I tried to tell you all this. Glad they clarified it though. It's what myself and a few others have been saying all along.

Acrolas

I do kind of see the distinction they're aiming for. You can't put a crown store item, retired or otherwise, on eBay and let people bid money on it. That would be a violation of both ZOS and eBay policy.

But I liked the beta version of this program because it felt like it would be strict gifting. As in, giving something to somebody else without any demand or expectation of anything in return. The person I gifted to will never find out who I am. I just wanted to do something nice.

If ZOS wanted a trading program, they should have designed an in-game trading program where both sides create a form for items exchange and co-sign that the trade is balanced to the best of both sides' ability and that no monetary gain was achieved by either party. Then ZOS could enforce that contract if abuse of the program were discovered.

AlienatedGoat

So instead of incorporating it into the existing trade UI and scheme, ZOS wants to leave it as a wild west market? I can see the pages of Support tickets already.

ZOS, you'd have far less legwork if you just make a small effort and make Crown items tradeable from within the game.

Seriously, you already have all the object elements in the game, such as popups and icons. All you need is to make them tradeable objects.

Please consider it. It'll make this a much smaller headache in the long run. @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

AlienatedGoat

DoctorESO wrote: »

UPDATE: IT IS ALLOWED, AND ZOS CAN INTERVENE IF YOU ARE SCAMMED IN SOME CASES!

Btw, I've been saying this for months.

It's clear as day in the Terms of Service. There's nothing in there that made Crown-item for gold trading against the rules. Scamming and/or defrauding other players, however, is prohibited behavior in the Terms of Service, and would have to be investigated by Support.

Elsonso

DoctorESO wrote: »

UPDATE: IT IS ALLOWED, AND ZOS CAN INTERVENE IF YOU ARE SCAMMED IN SOME CASES!

Greetings,

Thank you for your inquiry. The forums post you cited in your most recent response is our official stance on the matter.

Trading of in-game items for other in-game items is allowed; trading of in-game items for real-world money or other out-of-game items is strictly prohibited.

However, keep in mind that the player market in The Elder Scrolls Online is a "buyer beware" market, and not every trader is trustworthy!

When engaging in a trade with a player, it is best to ensure that the agreement occurs within an in-game channel such as text chat. If the agreement occurs outside of the game, Customer Support is unable to properly investigate – and if we can’t investigate, we may not be able to help!

If you find yourself a victim of a trade scam and have taken the necessary precautions to protect yourself, Customer Support may be able to intervene and investigate a scam trade. Click on this article (https://help.elderscrollsonline.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/6172 ) for further details.

As always, Please review the full Terms of Service and Code Of Conduct which is linked in this message for your reference.

Terms of Service - https://account.elderscrollsonline.com/terms-of-service
Code of Conduct - https://account.elderscrollsonline.com/code-of-conduct
Thank you for your continued interest and support!

Warm Regards,
The Elder Scrolls Online Team

Keep an eye on our official Facebook, Twitter, and website for upcoming news about The Elder Scrolls Online, including release-date info:
https://www.facebook.com/ElderScrollsOnline
http://twitter.com/TESOnline
http://elderscrollsonline.com

The above is from the same support ticket I mentioned in my original post

Excellent. Thanks for posting this!

Pops_ND_Irish

You gift someone something and he/she chooses to send you an item or gold as well, what is the problem ?
Reading too much into a non issue

Cêltic421

People seem to worry way to much about what and how others choose to spend his or her time and money. Who gives a *** someone has extra real life money to gift someone something from the crown store in exchange for some gold, really yo if you care that much about this then you need to get a life outside of this game. There is jack *** in the crown store that will affect anyones game play. Gold is easy and i mean it really is easy to obtain In this game if your try and take the time to do so.

Worry about yourself and less about others.

idk

Aliyavana wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

To clarify, trading an in-game item for other in-game items is allowed; trading in-game items for real-world money or other out-of-game items is strictly prohibited.

so for clarification, I can buy a random person a crown item for ingame gold and its allowed? what if I am scammed, will my gold be refunded? or if im the seller will I get my crowns back?

Support may be able to intervene and investigate a scam trade

The key word is may which has been the case overall for awhile. I would not trust a stranger in a in game trade period.

DarcyMardin

So, if one of my guilds allowed it, I could say, “I’m short of gold this week, but I have lots of crowns. So I’ll contribute a crown gift to this week’s auction. Whoever wins my auction lot can choose a gift worth 2k crowns and I’ll gift it to them.” And that would be OK?