[Class Rep] Templar Feedback Thread
Update 46 is now available for testing on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/676209
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No_Division✭✭✭
I didn't test that on PTS but on live that bug is definitely there
that bug is old school lol. It was there when divine cross dropped it hard.0 -
Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭FoulSnowpaw wrote: »Radiant Oppression and morphs is still too weak as an execute channel ability that is easily interrupted. Need to increase base damage and decrease the pseudo up to 500% damage increase of which is not obtained until target is far below 10% health. Basically make the ability a real execute ability, rather than a slot waste of which dropping other abilities heavily outperforms in terms of damage. The ability is not useful at all for anything rather than literal last second burst damage of which is easily countered because of delay before full impact.
In pvp scenario a player is around 20% health in the heat of battle.
Radiant Opresssion is a flashy channel ability so you'll definitely be interrupted or targeted for kill count in the channel.
Opponent heals themselves or gets healed and the ability did nothing but waste magicka.
Range cut off or roll dodge channel.
All other execute abilities are instant and hardly counterable. They do not attract attention despite being more useful.
In pve it's quite obvious the damage does not near an execute ability until the boss is below 10% at least. Most other class executes are instant cast, cost less, and deal instant damage; they have a higher threshold for execute phase. On top of this other classes can weave a lot of abilities in between unlike with radiant oppression and morphs.
Buffs and Passives
-Templar passive is too directional such as 6% weapon damage; where's the spell damage? Too narrow in scope.
-Pseudo passives such as duration "increase" to dawn's wrath and snare when standing in "select" restoring light abilities, of which should just be part of the ability if it's not going to cover the entire tree. It's not a class passive if it's an ability passive.
-Templar has no source of Major Sorcery
-Templar no mobility skill unlike all other classes; no major expedition.
And don’t forget that 4+ passives don’t even apply to Stamplar at all.0 -
No_Division✭✭✭
And don’t forget that 4+ passives don’t even apply to Stamplar at all.
thats mostly the case for even magplar. If you don't run punch. sweeps, you have less efficiency in getting burning light to proc. If magplar wants to not any dawns wraith, the same thing. And if you use mostly resto heals, you lose out on 15% extra healing.
most of them also only just boost the duration of skills, which might result in DPS loss. Even vamps bane, deals more per tick if you dont take the extra two seconds (if you calculate the ticks per 2s).0 -
Delparis✭✭✭✭✭No_Divison wrote: »
that bug is old school lol. It was there when divine cross dropped it hard.
What? and no one talked about this bug?
Why Zenimax didn't fix it?0 -
Delparis✭✭✭✭✭No_Divison wrote: »
its been on and off I believe.
another more reason to not play anymore with my templar in pvp.1 -
No_Division✭✭✭
another more reason to not play anymore with my templar in pvp.
You'll survive. Shields have always had the counter of knowing when to cc them at the last second of their duration. Burning through them is like trying to dig through a tank with an ice cream scooper.0 -
Delparis✭✭✭✭✭No_Divison wrote: »
You'll survive. Shields have always had the counter of knowing when to cc them at the last second of their duration. Burning through them is like trying to dig through a tank with an ice cream scooper.
this is game breaking as the skill isn't working as it shows in the tooltip
Burn an enemy with a ray of holy fire, dealing 894 Magic Damage over 1.8 seconds. Deals up to 480% more damage to enemies below 50% Health.
the 480% modifier isn't working at all for a shielded sorc even if its health is under 50%
another bug that confort me in the idea that this game is broken0 -
Syiccal✭✭✭✭✭
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this is game breaking as the skill isn't working as it shows in the tooltip
Burn an enemy with a ray of holy fire, dealing 894 Magic Damage over 1.8 seconds. Deals up to 480% more damage to enemies below 50% Health.
the 480% modifier isn't working at all for a shielded sorc even if its health is under 50%
another bug that confort me in the idea that this game is broken
I can only assume that the game/skill Interprets the shield as added health therefore not recognising being below the threshold for execute mulitpliersEdited by Syiccal on July 24, 2019 2:06PM2 -
Delparis✭✭✭✭✭
I can only assume that the game/skill Interprets the shield as added health therefore not recognising being below the threshold for execute mulitpliers
It shouldn't as health and shields are different variables, thus they should be differentiated in the game system0 -
Syiccal✭✭✭✭✭
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It shouldn't as health and shields are different variables, thus they should be differentiated in the game system
Should work like that yes,0 -
BNOC✭✭✭✭✭
The problem with building so offensively is that you will get melted by a good player that can deal with burst, you cant have all that dmg and have the same defensive capabilities to avoid being melted.
Just caught this - I obviously play Xbox Eu with you and I build offensively.
You'll have issues in duels against good players - But only players who have built the exact same way (glass cannon/duel spec) on their characters and are as or more skilled than you. This isn't all the time either, I win probably 95% of my duels and I'm only really losing against fully duel specced guys that sit in Auridon all day long, unless I make a rookie error, and I'm just in a non-specific build I use for everything.
You'll have nothing but success in BG's once you learn to position properly and understand when the right time to engage is for example.
When it comes to Cyro, if you're solo, pick your fights and if you're in a group then you're safe to go wild.
It all just takes some getting used to but once you've got used to playing smarter to accommodate the weaknesses you'll find that those never ending fights start ending and those 10 and 20% hp's you keep leaving the opponents on is now them dead.
You will probably die quicker to the good players you mentioned, but really, having a defensive build only prolongs that anyway; I watch so many Templars fighting with such a defensive build and playstyle that they literally turn into healers for 25m, only to die eventually as they would have - Seems pointless.
Also, the more damage you pump out into groups is the more they're on the back bar, the more they're moving or spreading to heal etc so you don't really lose much in terms of mitigation in that sense, especially if your kiting and positioning are strong to begin with.
If you wanna test anything, ever, you can always drop me a message, I always got time for messing about like that. GT: BNOC SKEdited by BNOC on July 24, 2019 3:17PMvMSA - Magplar - Xbox EU - 15/11/16
578,000 - 36 Minutes 58 Seconds (Top 2 World?)
vMSA - Magplar - Xbox NA
569,000 - 40 minutes (350CP, Non optimised runs)0 -
Jabbs_Giggity✭✭✭✭✭
Just caught this - I obviously play Xbox Eu with you and I build offensively.
You'll have issues in duels against good players - But only players who have built the exact same way (glass cannon/duel spec) on their characters and are as or more skilled than you. This isn't all the time either, I win probably 95% of my duels and I'm only really losing against fully duel specced guys that sit in Auridon all day long, unless I make a rookie error, and I'm just in a non-specific build I use for everything.
You'll have nothing but success in BG's once you learn to position properly and understand when the right time to engage is for example.
When it comes to Cyro, if you're solo, pick your fights and if you're in a group then you're safe to go wild.
It all just takes some getting used to but once you've got used to playing smarter to accommodate the weaknesses you'll find that those never ending fights start ending and those 10 and 20% hp's you keep leaving the opponents on is now them dead.
You will probably die quicker to the good players you mentioned, but really, having a defensive build only prolongs that anyway; I watch so many Templars fighting with such a defensive build and playstyle that they literally turn into healers for 25m, only to die eventually as they would have - Seems pointless.
Also, the more damage you pump out into groups is the more they're on the back bar, the more they're moving or spreading to heal etc so you don't really lose much in terms of mitigation in that sense, especially if your kiting and positioning are strong to begin with.
If you wanna test anything, ever, you can always drop me a message, I always got time for messing about like that. GT: BNOC SK
The problem with saying that other good players also build for damage is that other classes have built in defensive passives and skills which allow them to build sets more offensively.
For example DKs have wings for 50% Mitigation and lots of roots/CCs, powerful passive synergies and resource restoring Ult. Night blades have passive defensive buffs and high recovery while being able to cloak. Wardens have strong healing, speed and reflects. Sorcs have insane shield stacking, on demand LOS (if playing pets) and extreme mobility.
With Templars you ARE pidgeon-holed now into picking between damage, sustain OR defense. Cant have it all and compete at the same level.
Yes individual player skill and understanding of the game mechanics helps but can only get you so far against opponents of equal skill on a superior class.0 -
dcam86b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sorry if this was addressed already but as a magplar healer, what will be the new rotation for skills and sets in your opinion for PVP and just norm/vet dungeons. Thanks for any response.0 -
Delparis✭✭✭✭✭Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »
The problem with saying that other good players also build for damage is that other classes have built in defensive passives and skills which allow them to build sets more offensively.
For example DKs have wings for 50% Mitigation and lots of roots/CCs, powerful passive synergies and resource restoring Ult. Night blades have passive defensive buffs and high recovery while being able to cloak. Wardens have strong healing, speed and reflects. Sorcs have insane shield stacking, on demand LOS (if playing pets) and extreme mobility.
With Templars you ARE pidgeon-holed now into picking between damage, sustain OR defense. Cant have it all and compete at the same level.
Yes individual player skill and understanding of the game mechanics helps but can only get you so far against opponents of equal skill on a superior class.
To add more on that Radiant Destruction isn't working on shielded sorcs0 -
Syiccal✭✭✭✭✭
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To add more on that Radiant Destruction isn't working on shielded sorcs
Do we have video proof of the bug with shields and RD0 -
Baconlad✭✭✭✭✭
✭Eh...I dont know, I find that radiant destruction is rediculous on all types of enemies aside from block builds (looking at you stam DKs). And when fighting them purifying light tends to be better.
Off the wall here, you guys remember when purifying light, PoTL didn't have a cap and could be stacked with another cast of POTL? Take an enemy from 100 to zero. Make him go boom...fun times0 -
Syiccal✭✭✭✭✭
✭Eh...I dont know, I find that radiant destruction is rediculous on all types of enemies aside from block builds (looking at you stam DKs). And when fighting them purifying light tends to be better.
Off the wall here, you guys remember when purifying light, PoTL didn't have a cap and could be stacked with another cast of POTL? Take an enemy from 100 to zero. Make him go boom...fun times
It should only stack your own damage bit be able to crit2 -
Neoauspex✭✭✭✭✭
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It should only stack your own damage bit be able to crit
It should prevent stealth for the duration. It's a beam of damn light3 -
No_Division✭✭✭After testing the pts, here's my feedback:
- jabs camera reversal is going to hurt alot. Cost decrease is nice but not if you cant hit anything outside of your toon's viewpoint due to the camera turns lol.
- Templar cost reduction passive got a sight nerf with the cost reduction being multiplicative now. It probably needs to be buffed by 2% instead of 1%. Or look at suggestion to restoring aura.
- spear shards is a pve morph in my opinion. its dmg decrease does not concern me and looks like it was done to make it feel more like a utility spell than a dmg one.
- minor protection duration is nice, but useless now that minor Vulnerability completely negates it. Requires you to have another 8% DMG mitigation in order to get the 8% tooltip value. Will need to try out the changes fully but I expect a buff elsewhere in the kit. 8% minor buff AND 8% block mitigation for AS ability slotted would be amazing.
- dark flare will still receive less use because cast times outside of zerging fights are annoying. I suggest entire rework, maybe make it match the AOE aspect of its cousin, Solar Barrage but have increased dmg with major defile but no empower with less dmg ticks.
- solar barrage will become dead in PvP. 3200 dmg tooltips becomes 777 after typical Mitigation+major evaison. For 3400 cost I expect more than an 8s empower buff lol. But it is what it is, and very useful at times. Suggestion to add 1% dmg increase to your DOT abilities for every person hit up to 6 targets for a total of 6% dmg increased. That would make both morphs AOE debuffs/buffs with small dmg whereas eclipse is more of a heal debuff/burst dmg mechanic. Both AOES so that templar retains "Master of AOE" design intent mentioned by gilliam in his old videos.
- living dark can be amazing, but most fights are fought when forcing 1v1. The skill is great for being zerged on, but it's missing 1v1 strength. They should add minor maim to help with this and make it more formidable in 1vx without being too polorizing like it was in PTS week 1. Minor vitality would be a nice addition as well for a more defensive buff (along with making the heal based on highest stats for stamplars).
- haven't really tested Unstable Core. 3400 cost too expensive for a 3tier DMG that gives a snare overrided by effective light/extended ritual, an immobilze that won't see benefit of due to increased use of shuffle/rat/FM and a stun that is hardly noticeable if someone runs immovable pots. It will be more annoying than useful. Suggestion; make self buff the base morph and instead of the heal make it dmg per 1s that deals AOE burst for every 3 hits.
- reflective light changes are great, but forces rangeplar into force pulse spam which further makes them feel more like budget sorcs due to the dot standardization impacting how the original initial hit mechanics worked. Suggestion is to turn base morph of sun fire into a 2 target pseudo AOE, but have reflective light into a VERY strong single target spell that is MAGIC dmg without the AOE intital hit and with 40% snare while vamps bane retains 2 target initial hit mechanic, that is FIRE DMG, no snare and STRONG dot. This would reduce redundancy from ritual having an AOE snare but also give back the ranged spamable that rangeplar needs to move away from force pulse while giving a little bit of single target debuffing (snare) to justify having it over force pulse (especially if someone wants to run things like war maiden).
- backlash is in my opinion a pve morph. Makes PVP templar too clunky and is double mitigated. Suggestions above reduce need to have backlash.
- cleansing ritual changes are ok but still follows old "templar house" design intent which is now seen as a clear downside instead of a feature by the community. Increased healing is nice for pve, but in pvp its harder to stand in your ritual if you are always moving and giving up 5 debuffs is REALLY hard. Suggestion is as follows: extended ritual to have 2 debuff removal but becomes self buff hot that scales with your max health. During the duration, you will have a chance to continue to remove additional debuffs every 3s for a total of 10 debuffs removed (8+2) at the end of the 24 second duration. Duration resets the counter so you wont get any extra debuffs removed if you try to purge spam major defile off. Ritual of Retribution becomes 5 debuff but ground AOE hot and dmg mechanic is retained (balanced by the fact in order to see the most dmg/healing, you have to let the duration finish but sometimes you need to purge major defile). Of course that is just my opinion, but having a mobile friendly morph would create a condition where the templar should think which morph they want.
- restoring aura looks like a bug fix, so thats fine. Most arent taking this though with ele drain around and the AOE mechanic doesnt work for the debuff because the debuff is locked at 300 mag per second no matter who you hit. Suggestion is to make it unnamed or turn current minor mag steal values into MAJOR and make this ability minor mag steal at 50-100 value so templars can stack it with ele drain. That would offset the cost reduction nerf above instead of blandly buffing the cost reduction. OR give minor intellect/endurance/health recov on cast instead of on slotting.
- Honor the dead/bol continue to plague templar balance (since 2014). Stamplar nerfed because of it and magplar lost healing/defense because of it. Suggestion to buff other heals (like above mentioned) but instead turn BOL/HTD into a heal that CANNOT heal yourself only those in your group. This way PVE healers can still have the best burst heal, and PVP templars can look forward to interesting buffs/changes outside of blockcasting BOL for a defense. BOL can give you and the ally the small heal and HtD can give you both the mag cost over x seconds.
That is it. I hope this makes sense!Edited by No_Division on July 24, 2019 6:43PM2 -
IronWooshu✭✭✭✭✭
✭I think Radiant Aura should be a rule breaker skill where all targets affected by minor mag steal can return 300 mag every one second.
I know it sounds OP but in a 1v1 situation it would be no different than it is now, in a 1vX situation it would allow the Templar to quickly get back on the offense by sweeping a few targets to get back magicka. This allows the Templar to be more aggressive rather than staying in his house with channeled focus.
Perhaps have it so it can only affect 5 targets? Shorten the duration to 10 seconds but at least make this skill worthwhile.
Currently elemental drain is better since it debuffs the target and gives minor magicka steal.Edited by IronWooshu on July 24, 2019 7:45PM0 -
Delparis✭✭✭✭✭
Do we have video proof of the bug with shields and RD
go try it in bg sorcs run all over there with their shields on0 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Hey, we got new class reps. Not sure if I have seen any of them ever post here.0 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Its a shell game and judging by those who suddenly disappeared from it went from privelaged access to outright banned; I imagine its pretty contentious. GL new $0 salary fall guys0 -
No_Division✭✭✭Its a shell game and judging by those who suddenly disappeared from it went from privelaged access to outright banned; I imagine its pretty contentious. GL new $0 salary fall guys
Yea whats going to happen is they will enter NDA protected talks, try to get some OP changes fixed, have more talks, watch half of the changes reach PTS where we FINALLY get a word in/flip out. Then watch other things changed NOT in our feedback to justify half of the buffs the reps tried to change but couldnt and finally creating more painpoints that will continue to go unresolved for months/years while crownstore items/bugs get fixed faster than performance/skill audits.
I think masel had like pages of things unresolved for multiple classes a few months ago lol. I miss check + joy lol.1 -
UppGRAYxDD✭✭✭✭✭
✭#BringBackBlindingLight2019"Stendarr's mercy be upon you, for the vigil has none to spare."2 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭So I took my stamplar magicka again and its cool. And to fill the void, I took my magdk stam and uhh...
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NefasClass RepresentativeUppGRAYxDD wrote: »#BringBackBlindingLight2019
That’d be hilarious.
As for feedback, I’ve seen the same points made from many different groups of people particularly about Stamplars in PvE and Magplars in PvP so will be sure to forward the pain points.
One thing from the recent discussions in this thread I personally disagree with is that Radiant Oppression needs a buff. Imo it’s in a good place right now for both PvE and PvP (especially PvE) from what I’ve seen and experienced after the multiple adjustments made to it leading up to Elsweyr but again that’s just my opinion.
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