[Class Rep] Templar Feedback Thread

Cinbri

1. Rename Ritual of Retribution into Ritual of Salvation.
2. Remove dot component from it.
3. Make it grant snare and root immunity for 1/2/3/4sec on 1-4 morph lvl.
4. Profit.

With such change morphs will be possible to use with both specs stam/mag. It will allow diversity on morphs - Extended into survivability morph with 5 cleansed effects, Retribution into mobility morphs that cleanse only 2 effects, i.e. cant be serve as proper mitigation skill, but those 2 will be actual debuffs and wont be wasted on cleanse reapplayable snares as caster will be immune to them.
Currently Extended not help with mobility problem for templar coz snares can be reapplayable and there is a lot of instantly reapplayable debuffs that make Extended to use 5 cleanses on debuffs that will be instantly apply again after cleanse. For example debuff of sacred ground is stacking on Rune Focus and Ritual, literally applying 2 snare debuffs in list, means use those on enemy templar and his cleanse from 5 cleanses become into 3 coz things that wont even actually affect him. Or imagine I wear thurvokun that apply maim and defile debuffs aoe with 100% uptime. Means when I fight templar he will be under 4 uncleansable effects. When he will use Extended he will be forced to cleanse maim and defile, 2 snare debuffs, and cleanse only 1 proper effect, and than right after cleanse 4 debuffs will return. Or very common thing nowdays charge ice staf with wall of elements - apply aoe that apply uncleansable permaroot and overall 3 reapplayable debuffs. With changed Retribution templar at least can gain immunity to immobilize debuffs allowing him to move out of zone of such uncleansable debuffs (which is currently almost impossible coz root spam).
Idea incase dk will get it root immunity to wings as requested, coz such change will immediately will make them twice more mobile than templar spamming Extended ritual, which is not sound right.
P.S.: Will post later practical demonstration of what I mean.
P.S.S.: Seems my english at summer is even worse

Neoauspex

Patch notes soooooooon. Remember: all buffs for Templar are accompanied by class crippling nerfs. Hope you ended that tradition @Joy_Division

hedna123b14_ESO

#FixJesusBeam
#FixVampBane
#FixBacklash
#FixSolarBarrage
#BurningLightReturnsStam

Somber97866

(PVE)
1: Passives that allow us to hit as hard as other classes in group parses.

Checkmath

hey guys, big update! The pts with the new dlc should be on the pts later this day. Maybe you have read the announcement: there will be class changes too! As soon as pts is up i would like to start the feedback round once more. Since i am away i cant be on the pts myself, but i need again lots of quality feedback in here. The next meeting with the devs is settled on the 20th july, so we have two weeks of testing and feedback handing in. Hope you guys support me once again, so that i can make your voice heard by the devs!

I would like to do it the same way as before. State your top two concerns or pain points with the class. Remember that some points from before were discussed or may be addressed on the pts. Please forst go test and read the patchnotes before you comment.

technohic

You mean class changes as in update to the classes right? Otherwise I want my top concern to be “too many noobplars that switched to this awesome class”

Edit: I guess either way I would like that problem. And not for the healbot flavor.

Solinur

Well, I think they implemented a reasonable amount of fixes for the "pain points". Although they are overly cautious with Jesus beam.

On the other hand they did this:

Zaan: Decreased the range required to break the fiery tether to 8 meters from 10 meters.

Javelin to kill Zaan?

(surely just a minor point but the cc problem with all its its side effects still stands)

hedna123b14_ESO

The buffs were definitely not enough...barrage change was good...Jesus beam damage increase is not nearly enough...no backlash fix either:(

Solinur

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

The buffs were definitely not enough...barrage change was good...Jesus beam damage increase is not nearly enough...no backlash fix either:(

I hope they continue to work on this stuff. Might take till the DLC after though.

Solariken

I'm happy that Reflective Plate is getting 2s of root/snare immunity, but WHY did Dk get this mechanic and not Templar!?!? It makes more sense for Templar who has weaker offensive CC and control. Put immunity on Ritual of Retribution - 4 seconds please.

The buff to Jesus Beam is miniscule but I'll take it. It needs the cost to be changed to channel with the damage instead of the punishing upfront expense. @Joy_Division @Checkmath if you get anything through to the devs please don't forget this bit.

Joy_Division

I 1000% encourage people to continue the feedback.

The way ZOS is working this is that on the 20th we meet with the devs to discuss the PTS changes. So if you have issues - and you probably do since I certainly do - let us know.

Drdeath20

Minor buffs but they are all buffs.

Joy_Division

I would not call Rune Focus a buff.

It's a pretty big nerf actually if you ever happen to re-enter it.

CatchMeTrolling

So how does this 50 percent buff while standing in rune work ?.

technohic

Joy_Division wrote: »

I would not call Rune Focus a buff.

It's a pretty big nerf actually if you ever happen to re-enter it.

How so?

Drdeath20

technohic wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

I would not call Rune Focus a buff.

It's a pretty big nerf actually if you ever happen to re-enter it.

How so?

Hes talking as a DD, healer and pvp.

technohic

As far as magicka return, it kind of sucks, but I read the add 50% as when you are in it, you get 50% more armor from the major buffs.

NBrookus

technohic wrote: »

As far as magicka return, it kind of sucks, but I read the add 50% as when you are in it, you get 50% more armor from the major buffs.

Correct. I tested. 2.5k and odd change.

Cinbri

So, where to leave class feedback, here or official pts threads?

Gnortranermara

Aedric Spear
Empowering Sweep: still needs a damage buff so Magplars can choose this over Dawnbreaker or Soul Assault
Spear Shards: still needs an AOE root on at least one morph
Aurora Javelin: still needs to pull instead of knock back
Sun Shield: still needs a magicka-scaling morph
Burning Light: still needs a per-target cooldown
Balanced Warrior: still not "balanced". Should give +2/4% damage done and +2/4% damage taken mitigation for both stamina and magicka to earn it's name

Dawn's Wrath
Sun Fire: still needs to give a different buff (Major Sorcery, Minor Berserk, or Minor Force -- NOT Major Prophecy!) and increase duration by 1 sec to fit a full DPS rotation.
Radiant Destruction: GREAT CHANGE! It'll go back on my bar now
Solar Barrage: once again, ZOS screwed up what should've been a good thing (removing the cast time) by nerfing the holy bejeezus out of the ability. Like Healing Ritual, these cast time nerfs are waaaay disproportionate and leave us with trash abilities. Instead of a 40% damage nerf, show some intelligent moderation and give it a 20-30% nerf. This has potential to be an excellent ability if treated properly.

Restoring Light
Breath of Life: still over-nerfed from last patch. The Sorc Twilight is a superior heal and there is absolutely no justification for BoL to be so over-nerfed. Honor the Dead should remain single-target and give a cost discount, while BoL should be redesigned to heal for 33% less, but always hit self and up to two allies.
Rune Focus: either increase the magicka return to compensate for the shorter duration or lengthen the duration.

Also, add Major Expedition somewhere. It's about time for Templars to get a speed buff. Either put it on a Rune Focus morph or a new magicka-scaling Sun Shield morph... either way works fine.

Springt-Über-Zwerge

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

Aedric Spear
Empowering Sweep: still needs a damage buff so Magplars can choose this over Dawnbreaker or Soul Assault
Spear Shards: still needs an AOE root on at least one morph
Aurora Javelin: still needs to pull instead of knock back
Sun Shield: still needs a magicka-scaling morph
Burning Light: still needs a per-target cooldown
Balanced Warrior: still not "balanced". Should give +2/4% damage done and +2/4% damage taken mitigation for both stamina and magicka to earn it's name

Dawn's Wrath
Sun Fire: still needs to give a different buff (Major Sorcery, Minor Berserk, or Minor Force), NOT Major Prophecy! And increase duration by 1 sec to fit a full DPS rotation.
Radiant Destruction: GREAT CHANGE! It'll go back on my bar now
Solar Barrage: once again, ZOS screwed up what should've been a good thing (removing the cast time) by nerfing the holy bejeezus out of the ability. Like Healing Ritual, these cast time nerfs are waaaay disproportionate and leave us with trash abilities. Instead of a 40% damage nerf, show some intelligent moderation and give it a 20-30% nerf. This has potential to be an excellent ability if treated properly.

Restoring Light
Breath of Life: still over-nerfed from last patch. The Sorc Twilight is a superior heal and there is absolutely no justification for BoL to be so over-nerfed. Honor the Dead should remain single-target and give a cost discount, while BoL should be redesigned to heal for 33% less, but always hit self and up to two other targets.
Rune Focus: add Major Expedition to one morph. It's about time for Templars to get a speed buff. (Alternatively, add Major Expedition to a new magicka-scaling Sun Shield morph... either way works fine.)

I agree with almost everything you wrote but sun fire. Major prophency is really good for pvp when you have limited bar space
Also I like the rune change and major expetition would be too much on that skill maybe add it to restoring aura. That skill and its morphs are underperforming as they are

Joy_Division

technohic wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

I would not call Rune Focus a buff.

It's a pretty big nerf actually if you ever happen to re-enter it.

How so?

On Live, I cast it for like 1000 magicka. If I leave and enter it at any time, I get at least 16 ticks of magicka regen.

On the PTS, I cast it for like 1900 magicka. No matter what I do, I will only get 15 ticks of magicka regen.

On Live, If i leave and re-enter it twice, I get 26 ticks of magicka regen for a net total of 5160 magicka (6240 return - 1080 cost)

On the PTS, I will only ever get a net of 1709 magicka (3600 return - 1891 cost).

I'd rather have what's on Live.

What they gave us is only a slight buff compared to the absolute worst scenario possible. Not worth it considering many more scenarios will make it worse and potentially a lot worse.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

@Joy_Division the live skill says "and for up to 8 seconds after leaving it. " The pts version doesn't say this? Without going on the pts, I understood the 15 seconds was the guaranteed portion and that you would get an extra 8 seconds, if you managed to touch the rune before it disappeared. If it doesn't work like this, like it does on live, where it the major buffs last for an actual 26 seconds, the live versions morphs last 18 seconds at rank IV, if you manage to touch the rune again, then it is a major nerf.

cazlonb16_ESO

Buffs do not refresh when entering the rune. They last 18 seconds for 1891 magicka ( before modifiers ), period. The 50% increase in resistances granted while standind inside the rune works.

So the first big patch after the class rep programm was initiated brings major nerfs to Rune and Solar Barrage and a few extremely cautious adjustments to other abilites, some of them i wouldn't even call buffs.

Not that I expected anything else, but still.

€: Almost forgot the lowered duration Defile on Dark Flare. Yea, that absolutely had to be adjusted, now healing defbuffs are fine

Navras

I already had issues maintaining my magicka pool before this nerf (dps magplar), I guess I'll have to turn more Jewelry on regen\cost reduction if this will go live.

@Joy_Division I guess bringing on the table the "hot topic" of dps sustainability might be a good prio

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

cazlonb16_ESO wrote: »

Buffs do not refresh when entering the rune. They last 18 seconds for 1891 magicka ( before modifiers ), period. The 50% increase in resistances granted while standind inside the rune works.

So the first big patch after the class rep programm was initiated brings major nerfs to Rune and Solar Barrage and a few extremely cautious adjustments to other abilites, some of them i wouldn't even call buffs.

Not that I expected anything else, but still.

€: Almost forgot the lowered duration Defile on Dark Flare. Yea, that absolutely had to be adjusted, now healing defbuffs are fine

That is a huge nerf.

technohic

They heard the part of “Stamplar has even worse sustain than magplar “ and have adjusted to reduce that gap.

cpuScientist

Sustain for DPS on a magplar just got waaaaaaaaay worst. It was alrt pretty darn bad. Now it is just terrible.

BohnT

Cinbri wrote: »

So, where to leave class feedback, here or official pts threads?

There aren't even official pts threads, class balance won't be further touched...

At least that's how I interpret the posts from Gina from Summerset pts when she said that patches without special class threads don't touch on class balance further than the first week.
This is also stressed in any other thread where they even say they only want Feedback for very few named things

casparian

Back in the Morrowind PTS, the new version of Siphoning Attacks was a sustain loss -- it literally cost more to cast than it restored over time. The nightblade community spoke up, provided the math, and ZOS adjusted the skill to its current version (this was the last time I remember the nightblade community being articulate adults, for some reason).

If the past is any guide, we just need to continue to provide numbers and test results, and ZOS will tweak the numbers to make the change fit their intention (and I do believe they intended to buff templars). @NBrookus has already started with a lovely chart demonstrating that this is a sustain nerf.