[Class Rep] Templar Feedback Thread

casparian

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

both Blazing Spear and Luminous shards both deal damage now, with Blazing just a little more at best. Why not make them both deal damage but Blazing scale with Stamina instead?

Because without Luminous Shards, magplar healers lose their main distinctiveness and utility, and without Blazing Spear, magplar DDs lose an enormous amount of DPS.

Drdeath20

Luminous shards is a magplars main source of distinction! Magplars are in worse shape than i previously thought

Elsterchen

Well, from a stamplars point of view: ... down to 1 (in words: ONE) active templar skill on both bars in PVE and an amazing 2 active templar skills in PVP.

No more jabs in any form, its just not worth the trouble (praying for hiting my target), if one can deal more damage without any hassle (or skill, or enourmous sums of gold for that matter) with wearing 3 proc sets (fyi: no sloads, no bleeds).

My only pain point is that idk why i play a templar at all. They are not exelling in any possible combat strategy and up to now there is no word from those that decide how skills are implemented, to clearify how they think templars are thought to exell in something.

Untill there is some sort of direction: May the proc be with you, bothers and sisters.

Drdeath20

Elsterchen wrote: »

Well, from a stamplars point of view: ... down to 1 (in words: ONE) active templar skill on both bars in PVE and an amazing 2 active templar skills in PVP.

No more jabs in any form, its just not worth the trouble (praying for hiting my target), if one can deal more damage without any hassle (or skill, or enourmous sums of gold for that matter) with wearing 3 proc sets (fyi: no sloads, no bleeds).

My only pain point is that idk why i play a templar at all. They are not exelling in any possible combat strategy and up to now there is no word from those that decide how skills are implemented, to clearify how they think templars are thought to exell in something.

Untill there is some sort of direction: May the proc be with you, bothers and sisters.

Yeah i ask myself that same question everytime i play both my magplar and stamplar. Stamplars have zero direction and magplars are all over the place but never really committed to anything.

Mureel

NBrookus wrote: »

Reading for comprehension fail on my part. Okay, so two things?

1) Too many channels
2) Lack of a viable damage ult

---

Magplar PVP pain points:

1) Sustain. The only sustain passive templars have is a 4% cost reduction.

2) Too many channels.

3) No dedicated self-heal. Please make Honor the Dead heal only the caster and Breath of Life can be the healer morph.

4) Underperforming skills:
Radiant: Reduce the range and execute threshold and increase the damage to give this skill a real risk/reward mechanic.
Nova: Too expensive for too little damage or utility
Javelin: A cc that knocks people out of the range of your jabs synergizes poorly. Would be better if it knocked them down, pinned them down, or did anything besides push them farther away.
Radial Sweep: Tiny range and very hard to land. Dawnbreaker, which is similar, is far superior. Templar needs a good damage ultimate.
Sun Shield: Neither good protection nor good damage.
Balanced Warrior: Add spell damage

5) A sustain skill that is small and tied to the ground does not work well in a game where mobility is so critical.

Definitely disagree.

Leave honor the dead as it is. You can cope with it - same as we have to!

BOL has already been nerfed into oblivion (and it wasn't PVE healers who initiated that!) to the point that BOL is so weak now, many healers are swapping to Honor the dead to get some mana back and clutch heal, since so much of healers' mana goes into sustain for others and since we don't spam it all the time but only use it when someone needs a fast heal, thus getting the mana back more often than not.

I personally - in context of PVE healing, am really in the doorway of just giving up on this game.

Not because I can't do my role, but because I'm over having everything we have in our toolbox just systematically destroyed or crippled by nerfs that only benefit PVPers.

Need to make vigor instead have 1 magicka and 1 Stam morph. It comes from PVP skill tree, so give them that.

Khivas_Carrick

casparian wrote: »

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

both Blazing Spear and Luminous shards both deal damage now, with Blazing just a little more at best. Why not make them both deal damage but Blazing scale with Stamina instead?

Because without Luminous Shards, magplar healers lose their main distinctiveness and utility, and without Blazing Spear, magplar DDs lose an enormous amount of DPS.

Yet I use Luminous Shards because it helps the group still, as a Stamplar. Like, regularly, thanks to Burning Light Procs and the fact that I can still edge out 30k dps, which is all I need for what I do really. Plus, everybody loves shards, more the better.

The Blazing one I can understand I guess, but I'll drop the topic.

Checkmath

Ok guys, i know the meeting already is in the past and we all are waiting to see, what is coming with the next PTS. Therefore i will post here once more, what was talked about at the meeting regarding templars.

Templars:

- Offensive skills are too awkward/impractical/just not very good. Solar Barrage cast time ruins flows of nice DPS rotation. Radiant Destruction execute is a DPS loss. Sweeps channel is long, doesn’t make some DPS rotations, hard to hit targets in PVP.
- Poor stamina management. Makes tanking hard. Makes a long DPS rotation against bosses unsustainable.
- Repentance needs actual corpses and an enemy not to repent them first. Causes arguments with allies in Teamspeak who gets to use the skill.
- Rune Focus and more generally the “House.” Having to cast and recast an armor buff that doesn’t actually do anything exciting every 8 seconds is frustrating. “House” is too hard to manage because mechanics in PvP and PvE compel movement and healing nerfs make “stand your ground” unmanageable.
- Radial Sweep ultimate. Both morphs. Just not very good. Range is too short, damage is too low, often misses, other non-class ultimates are better/more versatile.
- Only class without a pro-active/preventative defense (no more blinding flashes, no reflect, no non-health scaling shields, etc.) has led to PvP archetype nobody like: the “Healbot” who holds block with sword and shield and hits Breath of Life
- Templar CC is seen as lacking and no AoE root make tanking hard and slow class feel slower
Shards not CCing still a sore spot
Eclipse CCs enemies without CCing them; ability can sometimes feel worthless vs experienced players
- There is a feeling that a lot of Templar passives are situational, restrictive, or weak.

I now want to hear if you agree with most of the points mentioned above. If not, please go ahead and state your two pain points as before. This may help me and the other reps to keep track of what is a problem in your point of view. We may see some changes with the next pts, so this also will help to distinguish between adressed pain points by the devs and the ones still in the game even after the changes.

Lord_Eomer

1. Rework Radial Sweep Ultimate, magicka morph should increase 8% max magicka and stamina morph should increase 8% max stamina.

Give mag templar a reason to slot ult other than metoer or destro ult and stam reason to slot other than Dawn Breaker

2. Give Vampire bane 8% damage bonus while using on undead and werewolves

Let this skill live upto its name.

Ghostnight013

1) Change restoring aura to give both magicka and stamina steal, change repentance to return to everyone but make it a Magicka/stamina HoT based on the corpses "repented". This makes using either an interesting choice now between the two versions.

2) extend the rune focus buff to 12 sec from 8 sec, and when you leave Rune Focus you get major(or at least minor) expedition to help get back to it.

technohic

Im happy with the current feedback.

Elsterchen

Let's see what is changing with PTS (its next mondays, right?).

@Lord_Dexter "Give Vampire bane 8% damage bonus while using on undead and werewolves" - nice idea! I like it.

BohnT

Elsterchen wrote: »

Let's see what is changing with PTS (its next mondays, right?).

@Lord_Dexter "Give Vampire bane 8% damage bonus while using on undead and werewolves" - nice idea! I like it.

PTS next week???

Elsterchen

@BohnT ... PTS server is updated weekly, i think.

Or not?

idk

BohnT

Elsterchen wrote: »

@BohnT ... PTS server is updated weekly, i think.

Or not?

idk

Not really, they just patch it when a new Update is about to be released.
I thought i missed the announcement that Update 19 will be on the pts but i guess it'll take some more time then

WillhelmBlack

3. Restoring Focus armour buff needs to be on the character, not on the ground. Some Magplars may stand in the same spot, healers/tanks so Channeled Focus, getting Magicka back is kinda balanced, you need to be around the Rune to get that really good buff. Restoring is different tho, the morph most Stamplar's take, you lose all your buffs from it in literally a second if you're sprinting.

BohnT

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

3. Restoring Focus armour buff needs to be on the character, not on the ground. Some Magplars may stand in the same spot, healers/tanks so Channeled Focus, getting Magicka back is kinda balanced, you need to be around the Rune to get that really good buff. Restoring is different tho, the morph most Stamplar's take, you lose all your buffs from it in literally a second if you're sprinting.

The buffs stick to you for 8 seconds on cast, however that duration could surely be increased to make the skill more viable

Minno

Checkmath wrote: »

Ok guys, i know the meeting already is in the past and we all are waiting to see, what is coming with the next PTS. Therefore i will post here once more, what was talked about at the meeting regarding templars.

Templars:

- Offensive skills are too awkward/impractical/just not very good. Solar Barrage cast time ruins flows of nice DPS rotation. Radiant Destruction execute is a DPS loss. Sweeps channel is long, doesn’t make some DPS rotations, hard to hit targets in PVP. jabs/sweeps does let you get back mag/stam while in the channel but without a defense that exist passively its hard to justify this positive point with channels. other abilities do need some work regarding how clunky they are in rotations (POTL, unstable core, etc)
- Poor stamina management. Makes tanking hard. Makes a long DPS rotation against bosses unsustainable. agreed
- Repentance needs actual corpses and an enemy not to repent them first. Causes arguments with allies in Teamspeak who gets to use the skill. agreed
- Rune Focus and more generally the “House.” Having to cast and recast an armor buff that doesn’t actually do anything exciting every 8 seconds is frustrating. “House” is too hard to manage because mechanics in PvP and PvE compel movement and healing nerfs make “stand your ground” unmanageable. agreed. could be makor defile/befouled might be the only change needed here
- Radial Sweep ultimate. Both morphs. Just not very good. Range is too short, damage is too low, often misses, other non-class ultimates are better/more versatile. should be stated cresant sweep is very much important in PVE. But it can be fixed from a bug standpoint and making empwering sweeps better
- Only class without a pro-active/preventative defense (no more blinding flashes, no reflect, no non-health scaling shields, etc.) has led to PvP archetype nobody like: the “Healbot” who holds block with sword and shield and hits Breath of Life agreed. Total dark can be that defense honestly, if they gave it a self-buff style treatment without the cc imunity garbage (and give both a mag and stamina morph)
- Templar CC is seen as lacking and no AoE root make tanking hard and slow class feel slower
Shards not CCing still a sore spot. Eclipse CCs enemies without CCing them; ability can sometimes feel worthless vs experienced players I think all CC should have limitations. If you have an unblocked cc, it shouldnt also be undodgeable and vice versa. This way CC has counterplay which is more important. Javelin MUST BE CHEAPER to cast, or be given minor beserk . Also regarding AOE control, this should only be granted if we are to remain somewhat "stand your ground" which is why radiant ward can be an AOE root on cast
- There is a feeling that a lot of Templar passives are situational, restrictive, or weak. agreed. passives that boost efficency of abilities should be given to those abilities to make room for resource/defensive/offensive passives.

I now want to hear if you agree with most of the points mentioned above. If not, please go ahead and state your two pain points as before. This may help me and the other reps to keep track of what is a problem in your point of view. We may see some changes with the next pts, so this also will help to distinguish between adressed pain points by the devs and the ones still in the game even after the changes.

My responses in bold!

Edit:
and my two revised pain points:
1) stamina return outside of regen needed. magplars have channeled focus and ele drain but stamplars/tanks need a way to recoup stamina. Adjusting channeled focus to be self buff/added sustian passive would be all thats needed to magplar, but stamplar needs a way to bring in stamina/

2) rework on some abilities to give back defense to both classes. I think this is where I tihnk eclipse/radiant ward can be revised to give back defense to the classes (with a stamina/mag cost morphs so both archetypes can use!)

WillhelmBlack

BohnT wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

3. Restoring Focus armour buff needs to be on the character, not on the ground. Some Magplars may stand in the same spot, healers/tanks so Channeled Focus, getting Magicka back is kinda balanced, you need to be around the Rune to get that really good buff. Restoring is different tho, the morph most Stamplar's take, you lose all your buffs from it in literally a second if you're sprinting.

The buffs stick to you for 8 seconds on cast, however that duration could surely be increased to make the skill more viable

You tested it's range? Last time I checked armour buff would disappear after a few short metres. If it does indeed last 8 secs then they should make it 12 secs same as Sorc.

Insanepirate01

PvP magplar point of you view

2 pain points.


-The "house" concept is a cool concept but is rather lackluster currently. Needs to have additional incentives to stay in your house. Our sustain should also not be tied to it or the area effected could be increased, as currently in bgs and open work cyro when taking on multiple attackers or even a single mobile enemy, I just find myself using it as an 8 sec self buff which is a pretty short duration.

- Iconic class skills such as sweeps and radiant destruction are not very good to put it mildly. Sweeps as a concept is good but works poorly in practice. This seems to have more to do with bugginess. Add the snare on the second hit as opposed to the last. Radiant depression is pretty bad as an execute. Needs to actually function as an execute as even non tanks can heal back to full from 15% as you use this skill. Need to balance where it works efficiently as an execute on a single target but scales poorly when spammed by multiple zerg surfers. Maybe remove the execute scaling from 50% down to 25% and add a debuff to the enemy to differentiate it from other executes. It is a channel and locks you out of using other skills during the duration yet performs worse than most other executes.

Darkmage1337

Checkmath wrote: »

Ok guys, i know the meeting already is in the past and we all are waiting to see, what is coming with the next PTS. Therefore i will post here once more, what was talked about at the meeting regarding templars.

Templars:

- Offensive skills are too awkward/impractical/just not very good. Solar Barrage cast time ruins flows of nice DPS rotation. Radiant Destruction execute is a DPS loss. Sweeps channel is long, doesn’t make some DPS rotations, hard to hit targets in PVP.
- Poor stamina management. Makes tanking hard. Makes a long DPS rotation against bosses unsustainable.
- Repentance needs actual corpses and an enemy not to repent them first. Causes arguments with allies in Teamspeak who gets to use the skill.
- Rune Focus and more generally the “House.” Having to cast and recast an armor buff that doesn’t actually do anything exciting every 8 seconds is frustrating. “House” is too hard to manage because mechanics in PvP and PvE compel movement and healing nerfs make “stand your ground” unmanageable.
- Radial Sweep ultimate. Both morphs. Just not very good. Range is too short, damage is too low, often misses, other non-class ultimates are better/more versatile.
- Only class without a pro-active/preventative defense (no more blinding flashes, no reflect, no non-health scaling shields, etc.) has led to PvP archetype nobody like: the “Healbot” who holds block with sword and shield and hits Breath of Life
- Templar CC is seen as lacking and no AoE root make tanking hard and slow class feel slower
Shards not CCing still a sore spot
Eclipse CCs enemies without CCing them; ability can sometimes feel worthless vs experienced players
- There is a feeling that a lot of Templar passives are situational, restrictive, or weak.

I now want to hear if you agree with most of the points mentioned above. If not, please go ahead and state your two pain points as before. This may help me and the other reps to keep track of what is a problem in your point of view. We may see some changes with the next pts, so this also will help to distinguish between adressed pain points by the devs and the ones still in the game even after the changes.

#MakeJesusGreatAgain
Beam. Jesus Beam.

Joking aside, yes, Radiant Destruction is a MAJOR DPS loss. It wasn't nerfed to the ground, it was nerfed to hell. It needs to return to its almost-former-glory status.

Dark Flare needs its casting time reduced or completely removed and made into a proper ranged spammable (like every other class has). Otherwise, it' is just another DPS loss.

Rune Focus's Major Ward & Major Resolve buffs need to apply and stick to your actual character, not the rune on the ground. Also, any allies that walk over or onto the rune should get the Major Ward/Resolve buff, as well. Warden's Frost Cloak for Major Ward/Resolve is already ranged AoE and OP, in comparison, and their buff lasts so much longer.

Radial Sweep animation still misses its target(s) 99% of the time. The skill is useless! It definitely needs a range/radius increase as well as some re-coding done to it to make the animation go off better and actually hit everything around you, and whatever it is you are actually targeting.
Nova costs way too much ulti to use, and the synergy activation-range needs to be greatly expanded, as well.
Remembrance/Practiced Incantation Ulti needs its healing-speed/animation sped up, and/or heal for more. (E.g. You should not be able to die so easily when using this Ulti ability, especially since you CC yourself via channeling and cannot move or deal damage!)

Blazing Shield does not last long enough for the little amount of damage that it blocks (compared to Spiked Bone Shield, MagSorc shields, etc!), especially since Blazing Shield was also nerfed to hell. Either reduce its cost to greatly reflected the nerfed shield, or return the shield back to its former glory of BlazePlar.

Don't even get me started on Eclipse. I never ever even both to use this ability. It needs to be thrown out and replaced with something else entirely. Or, remove the orb animation so players don't know that they are being CC'd by Eclipse, lol. That might work.

The Templar class skill line passives need a major update/overhaul to reflect the above suggested changes. I could go into more detail, but I'm not currently logged in to read and list each passive, and they have been discussed quite a bit in the Discord channels and elsewhere.

I could go on forever, but The House is dead. Mobility is Meta.

TL;DR:
#MakeJesusBeamGreatAgain
#MakeBlazingShieldGreatAgain
#MakeBreathOfLifeGreatAgain
#MakeBitingJabsGreatAgain
#MakeRepentanceGreatAgain
#MakeShardsGreatAgain
#MakeTemplarGreatAgain

Everything @ZOS_Wrobel nerfed. Un-nerf it! It is almost as simple as that.
Even if all of the #Nerfs were reverted, Templar would *maybe* be on par in current performance with other classes. The Templar 'class' has been a long-running ESO joke for far too long. Yet I still main it.

The Dawn-Bringer, AD High Elf Magplar (Healer/DPS) & The Moonlit-Knight, EP Imperial Tankplar (Tank), have been my main 2 PvE & PvP characters since ESO launched 4 years & 3 months ago. However, they both pale in comparison to the DPS and Tankiness of Shield-stacking MagSorcs, such as The Dark-Mage, my EP Dark Elf MagSorc.

I miss my OPplar.

SugaComa

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

SugaComa wrote: »

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

SIRPORKCHOPS wrote: »

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

The purpose of this thread is to give you a place to post your current top two pain points with the Templar. Our new Class Representatives will be keeping a close eye on this thread, and will utilize it to gather additional feedback for the notes they’re currently compiling for their first meeting with the Dev Team next week. Please be sure and keep your post clear and succinct, and focus more on what is currently frustrating you rather than potential solutions. Thanks!

Ma`am, you're gonna need a lot more than two points to describe why this class is doing so god damn poorly.

To try and follow your crudely suggested model though, the two biggest pain points with Templar is this:

1) Class Passives are kinda terrible and need a dire rework, especially if anybody wants to be a Stamina Templar.

2) Increase the range and damage of the Sweeps Ultimates. There is no reason for it to be that weak and that short of range.



Now to add properly to the real list, here are some things that y'all really ought to consider:

3) The Javelin Skills need a rework for stamina characters methinks, make one ranged and for magicka players and tanks, and make the stamina version a melee skill.

4) Focused Charge should have a Stamina variant, and should be a targeted leap instead of a targeted charge.

5) Biting Jabs as someone already mentioned should be condensed to 3 hits instead of 4, and channeled over .8 instead of 1.1 seconds. This would help greatly in PvP and help a little in PvE.

6) Blazing Spear should be a Stamina Morph.

7) This is purely me being a nerd and wanting something personally for myself so tbh disregard this entirely, but Vampire's Bane should be a melee touch spell that scales with Stamina so we get a cool as hell Anti-Vampire move lol

8) Solar Barrage should not have a cast time attached to it imho, but since you do, make it burst every second instead of every 2 seconds.

9) PotL/Purifying Light should be slightly reworked for it's damage aspect. The Breach and Fracture parts are ok on it, but the Initial Damage should be increased and there should be a hefty, semi-bursty DoT on it rather than saving up for a big burst of damage.

10) I can't believe I almost forgot this, but Burning Light should Proc off of ALL damaging skills, or at the very least all Spear skills and any and all DoT skills. This opens up a grand avenue for build variety.

11) Balanced Warrior should be reworked a bit. It should benefit both Casters and Melee equally in some way for damage, which shouldn't be hard to achieve.

12) Piercing Spear should be reworked to include passive Penetration (giggity)

I've been up since 4am, so if this is a little rough, forgive me lol I have faith that ZoS can figure this out without totally ruining the *** out of us.

I main stamina templar for PVE and alot of your points are coming from a stance of little play with the class

I've been a Stamplar since the game released, on and off between patches and xpacs. I think you might wanna reconsider the fact that other people have other ideas and visions for the class and what they want. Are my ideas perfect? No, but a few of them are damn good ones regardless of what you think.

Blazing Spear being Stamina? Tell me why that wouldn't work. Biting Jabs being reworked to be more spammable and less glitchy? Go on, explain. Best of all, tell us why our class passives aren't ***.

Cos basically what you're doing is buffing stamina at the expense of nerfing magicka

Blazing spears and luminous shard should remain magic, vamp bane should be given a stamina morph, one deals flame damage and magic damage from magic other deals physical damage and flame damage based on stamina

One hurls a ball of sunlight, other hurls a rock forged in sunlight

I like the idea with the Vampire's Bane getting a Stamina Morph, but both Blazing Spear and Luminous shards both deal damage now, with Blazing just a little more at best. Why not make them both deal damage but Blazing scale with Stamina instead?

Also, back to the Vampire's bane stam idea; I'd make it all physical, all the way through with a bleed or something, so that CP won't get spread out between Fire/Magic and Poison/physical.

To answer the question honestly ... Cos I'm a magic user and I prefer blazing over luminous

Stamina can have luminous but you're not getting blazing ever ... Not on my watch anyway

Nolic1

My 2 pain points are this.

Repentance: should do magicka steal like it does on one and a stamina steal on the other cause fighting with others on who uses it makes tanking and stam dps fight over it to much.

Leave Rune focus as is but make its timer effect work the full time limit in and out of the circle so this way tanking with that skill allows you to be mobile and the same for PvP.

But my second one is there resource management for magicka its great for the most part better then alot of classes when a healer. There stamina return being locked to a skill as a passive effect well all there resource return needs to be fixed in a bad way. Its cool that it makes the class unique but it also makes in limiting on how it can effect your play.

Stibbons

Darkmage1337 wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

Ok guys, i know the meeting already is in the past and we all are waiting to see, what is coming with the next PTS. Therefore i will post here once more, what was talked about at the meeting regarding templars.

Templars:

- Offensive skills are too awkward/impractical/just not very good. Solar Barrage cast time ruins flows of nice DPS rotation. Radiant Destruction execute is a DPS loss. Sweeps channel is long, doesn’t make some DPS rotations, hard to hit targets in PVP.
- Poor stamina management. Makes tanking hard. Makes a long DPS rotation against bosses unsustainable.
- Repentance needs actual corpses and an enemy not to repent them first. Causes arguments with allies in Teamspeak who gets to use the skill.
- Rune Focus and more generally the “House.” Having to cast and recast an armor buff that doesn’t actually do anything exciting every 8 seconds is frustrating. “House” is too hard to manage because mechanics in PvP and PvE compel movement and healing nerfs make “stand your ground” unmanageable.
- Radial Sweep ultimate. Both morphs. Just not very good. Range is too short, damage is too low, often misses, other non-class ultimates are better/more versatile.
- Only class without a pro-active/preventative defense (no more blinding flashes, no reflect, no non-health scaling shields, etc.) has led to PvP archetype nobody like: the “Healbot” who holds block with sword and shield and hits Breath of Life
- Templar CC is seen as lacking and no AoE root make tanking hard and slow class feel slower
Shards not CCing still a sore spot
Eclipse CCs enemies without CCing them; ability can sometimes feel worthless vs experienced players
- There is a feeling that a lot of Templar passives are situational, restrictive, or weak.

I now want to hear if you agree with most of the points mentioned above. If not, please go ahead and state your two pain points as before. This may help me and the other reps to keep track of what is a problem in your point of view. We may see some changes with the next pts, so this also will help to distinguish between adressed pain points by the devs and the ones still in the game even after the changes.

#MakeJesusGreatAgain
Beam. Jesus Beam.

Joking aside, yes, Radiant Destruction is a MAJOR DPS loss. It wasn't nerfed to the ground, it was nerfed to hell. It needs to return to its almost-former-glory status.

Dark Flare needs its casting time reduced or completely removed and made into a proper ranged spammable (like every other class has). Otherwise, it' is just another DPS loss.

Rune Focus's Major Ward & Major Resolve buffs need to apply and stick to your actual character, not the rune on the ground. Also, any allies that walk over or onto the rune should get the Major Ward/Resolve buff, as well. Warden's Frost Cloak for Major Ward/Resolve is already ranged AoE and OP, in comparison, and their buff lasts so much longer.

Radial Sweep animation still misses its target(s) 99% of the time. The skill is useless! It definitely needs a range/radius increase as well as some re-coding done to it to make the animation go off better and actually hit everything around you, and whatever it is you are actually targeting.
Nova costs way too much ulti to use, and the synergy activation-range needs to be greatly expanded, as well.
Remembrance/Practiced Incantation Ulti needs its healing-speed/animation sped up, and/or heal for more. (E.g. You should not be able to die so easily when using this Ulti ability, especially since you CC yourself via channeling and cannot move or deal damage!)

Blazing Shield does not last long enough for the little amount of damage that it blocks (compared to Spiked Bone Shield, MagSorc shields, etc!), especially since Blazing Shield was also nerfed to hell. Either reduce its cost to greatly reflected the nerfed shield, or return the shield back to its former glory of BlazePlar.

Don't even get me started on Eclipse. I never ever even both to use this ability. It needs to be thrown out and replaced with something else entirely. Or, remove the orb animation so players don't know that they are being CC'd by Eclipse, lol. That might work.

The Templar class skill line passives need a major update/overhaul to reflect the above suggested changes. I could go into more detail, but I'm not currently logged in to read and list each passive, and they have been discussed quite a bit in the Discord channels and elsewhere.

I could go on forever, but The House is dead. Mobility is Meta.

TL;DR:
#MakeJesusBeamGreatAgain
#MakeBlazingShieldGreatAgain
#MakeBreathOfLifeGreatAgain
#MakeBitingJabsGreatAgain
#MakeRepentanceGreatAgain
#MakeShardsGreatAgain
#MakeTemplarGreatAgain

Everything @ZOS_Wrobel nerfed. Un-nerf it! It is almost as simple as that.
Even if all of the #Nerfs were reverted, Templar would *maybe* be on par in current performance with other classes. The Templar 'class' has been a long-running ESO joke for far too long. Yet I still main it.

The Dawn-Bringer, AD High Elf Magplar (Healer/DPS) & The Moonlit-Knight, EP Imperial Tankplar (Tank), have been my main 2 PvE & PvP characters since ESO launched 4 years & 3 months ago. However, they both pale in comparison to the DPS and Tankiness of Shield-stacking MagSorcs, such as The Dark-Mage, my EP Dark Elf MagSorc.

I miss my OPplar.

This man/female has experince with Templar. Fix all of those.

SugaComa

Don't even get me started on Eclipse. I never ever even both to use this ability. It needs to be thrown out and replaced with something else entirely. Or, remove the orb animation so players don't know that they are being CC'd by Eclipse, lol. That might work.

This caught my eye ... It's called eclipse they should know they are in it cos it's hsould turn the screen black so they can't see at all for an hour minimum

Ok timing might be a tad ott

Drdeath20

Really almost everything is a pain point on templars.

passives that are not competitive or are used to boost a terrible skill up to becoming an underwhelming skill. Thanks now my praticed incarnation healing ultimate now provides me more resistances while i am a statue <yuck>. Still does not protect me from most DLC dungeon mechanics. Actually using that ultimate will get you killed by a 1shot mechanic. I think we have 2 of them. Enduring rays and light weaver. We also have an insanely narrow passive in spear wall. We have to slot a skill to get a "passive" that is stackable.

Why do skills like radiant glory, explosive charge and healing ritual even exist?

There is never a time where radiant glory is the preferred morph over radiant oppression. Once I get a player in execute range I want to overkill them rather than have a small heal.

Explosive charge is clunky, expensive, weak and lacks anything special about it.

Healing ritual is finally instant cast but again its range (10meters around caster) is tiny and it costs like 30% of your magicka. Templars already have a instant heal. If we are gonna have 2 healing spells can we finally have 1 of them become a heal overtime. Knowing ZoS they will make breath of life the HoT and leave healing ritual as is....SMH

Dark flare is another weak skill. Ill admit that the damage dark flare does is fair but its secondary effects (3 second defile and a useless empower) only limits this ability to being used in limited situations and never in pve.

Solar barrage is clunky and is hard to work into a sustainable rotation.

Why is dark flare and solar barrage completely different? If you look at a skill like accelerate from the psyjic skill line. That is a perfect example of what solar barrage should be like. Its instant cast and you can either choose a morph for longer duration (that comes with a cast time) or get something quasi useful (reduced cost of sprint) out of the other morph but still keep everything that was great about the base skill. It would be nice to see solar barrage instant cast 1 morph with 3 blasts and the other morph has a small cast time but provides 5 blasts. Thus there is a real reason behind the cast time.

I literally could go on and on but im just getting bored about it. Its very clear that templars are the least thought about class by the combat teams.

Khivas_Carrick

SugaComa wrote: »

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

SugaComa wrote: »

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

SIRPORKCHOPS wrote: »

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

The purpose of this thread is to give you a place to post your current top two pain points with the Templar. Our new Class Representatives will be keeping a close eye on this thread, and will utilize it to gather additional feedback for the notes they’re currently compiling for their first meeting with the Dev Team next week. Please be sure and keep your post clear and succinct, and focus more on what is currently frustrating you rather than potential solutions. Thanks!

Ma`am, you're gonna need a lot more than two points to describe why this class is doing so god damn poorly.

To try and follow your crudely suggested model though, the two biggest pain points with Templar is this:

1) Class Passives are kinda terrible and need a dire rework, especially if anybody wants to be a Stamina Templar.

2) Increase the range and damage of the Sweeps Ultimates. There is no reason for it to be that weak and that short of range.



Now to add properly to the real list, here are some things that y'all really ought to consider:

3) The Javelin Skills need a rework for stamina characters methinks, make one ranged and for magicka players and tanks, and make the stamina version a melee skill.

4) Focused Charge should have a Stamina variant, and should be a targeted leap instead of a targeted charge.

5) Biting Jabs as someone already mentioned should be condensed to 3 hits instead of 4, and channeled over .8 instead of 1.1 seconds. This would help greatly in PvP and help a little in PvE.

6) Blazing Spear should be a Stamina Morph.

7) This is purely me being a nerd and wanting something personally for myself so tbh disregard this entirely, but Vampire's Bane should be a melee touch spell that scales with Stamina so we get a cool as hell Anti-Vampire move lol

8) Solar Barrage should not have a cast time attached to it imho, but since you do, make it burst every second instead of every 2 seconds.

9) PotL/Purifying Light should be slightly reworked for it's damage aspect. The Breach and Fracture parts are ok on it, but the Initial Damage should be increased and there should be a hefty, semi-bursty DoT on it rather than saving up for a big burst of damage.

10) I can't believe I almost forgot this, but Burning Light should Proc off of ALL damaging skills, or at the very least all Spear skills and any and all DoT skills. This opens up a grand avenue for build variety.

11) Balanced Warrior should be reworked a bit. It should benefit both Casters and Melee equally in some way for damage, which shouldn't be hard to achieve.

12) Piercing Spear should be reworked to include passive Penetration (giggity)

I've been up since 4am, so if this is a little rough, forgive me lol I have faith that ZoS can figure this out without totally ruining the *** out of us.

I main stamina templar for PVE and alot of your points are coming from a stance of little play with the class

I've been a Stamplar since the game released, on and off between patches and xpacs. I think you might wanna reconsider the fact that other people have other ideas and visions for the class and what they want. Are my ideas perfect? No, but a few of them are damn good ones regardless of what you think.

Blazing Spear being Stamina? Tell me why that wouldn't work. Biting Jabs being reworked to be more spammable and less glitchy? Go on, explain. Best of all, tell us why our class passives aren't ***.

Cos basically what you're doing is buffing stamina at the expense of nerfing magicka

Blazing spears and luminous shard should remain magic, vamp bane should be given a stamina morph, one deals flame damage and magic damage from magic other deals physical damage and flame damage based on stamina

One hurls a ball of sunlight, other hurls a rock forged in sunlight

I like the idea with the Vampire's Bane getting a Stamina Morph, but both Blazing Spear and Luminous shards both deal damage now, with Blazing just a little more at best. Why not make them both deal damage but Blazing scale with Stamina instead?

Also, back to the Vampire's bane stam idea; I'd make it all physical, all the way through with a bleed or something, so that CP won't get spread out between Fire/Magic and Poison/physical.

To answer the question honestly ... Cos I'm a magic user and I prefer blazing over luminous

Stamina can have luminous but you're not getting blazing ever ... Not on my watch anyway

Then I suggest this: Make the baseline effect deal damage and restore both magicka and stamina, and make Luminous deal more magic damage and blazing deal physical via stamina scaling.

We both win with that, and we both get what we want and it shouldn't be too much to ask for.

Stibbons wrote: »

Darkmage1337 wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

Ok guys, i know the meeting already is in the past and we all are waiting to see, what is coming with the next PTS. Therefore i will post here once more, what was talked about at the meeting regarding templars.

Templars:

- Offensive skills are too awkward/impractical/just not very good. Solar Barrage cast time ruins flows of nice DPS rotation. Radiant Destruction execute is a DPS loss. Sweeps channel is long, doesn’t make some DPS rotations, hard to hit targets in PVP.
- Poor stamina management. Makes tanking hard. Makes a long DPS rotation against bosses unsustainable.
- Repentance needs actual corpses and an enemy not to repent them first. Causes arguments with allies in Teamspeak who gets to use the skill.
- Rune Focus and more generally the “House.” Having to cast and recast an armor buff that doesn’t actually do anything exciting every 8 seconds is frustrating. “House” is too hard to manage because mechanics in PvP and PvE compel movement and healing nerfs make “stand your ground” unmanageable.
- Radial Sweep ultimate. Both morphs. Just not very good. Range is too short, damage is too low, often misses, other non-class ultimates are better/more versatile.
- Only class without a pro-active/preventative defense (no more blinding flashes, no reflect, no non-health scaling shields, etc.) has led to PvP archetype nobody like: the “Healbot” who holds block with sword and shield and hits Breath of Life
- Templar CC is seen as lacking and no AoE root make tanking hard and slow class feel slower
Shards not CCing still a sore spot
Eclipse CCs enemies without CCing them; ability can sometimes feel worthless vs experienced players
- There is a feeling that a lot of Templar passives are situational, restrictive, or weak.

I now want to hear if you agree with most of the points mentioned above. If not, please go ahead and state your two pain points as before. This may help me and the other reps to keep track of what is a problem in your point of view. We may see some changes with the next pts, so this also will help to distinguish between adressed pain points by the devs and the ones still in the game even after the changes.

#MakeJesusGreatAgain
Beam. Jesus Beam.

Joking aside, yes, Radiant Destruction is a MAJOR DPS loss. It wasn't nerfed to the ground, it was nerfed to hell. It needs to return to its almost-former-glory status.

Dark Flare needs its casting time reduced or completely removed and made into a proper ranged spammable (like every other class has). Otherwise, it' is just another DPS loss.

Rune Focus's Major Ward & Major Resolve buffs need to apply and stick to your actual character, not the rune on the ground. Also, any allies that walk over or onto the rune should get the Major Ward/Resolve buff, as well. Warden's Frost Cloak for Major Ward/Resolve is already ranged AoE and OP, in comparison, and their buff lasts so much longer.

Radial Sweep animation still misses its target(s) 99% of the time. The skill is useless! It definitely needs a range/radius increase as well as some re-coding done to it to make the animation go off better and actually hit everything around you, and whatever it is you are actually targeting.
Nova costs way too much ulti to use, and the synergy activation-range needs to be greatly expanded, as well.
Remembrance/Practiced Incantation Ulti needs its healing-speed/animation sped up, and/or heal for more. (E.g. You should not be able to die so easily when using this Ulti ability, especially since you CC yourself via channeling and cannot move or deal damage!)

Blazing Shield does not last long enough for the little amount of damage that it blocks (compared to Spiked Bone Shield, MagSorc shields, etc!), especially since Blazing Shield was also nerfed to hell. Either reduce its cost to greatly reflected the nerfed shield, or return the shield back to its former glory of BlazePlar.

Don't even get me started on Eclipse. I never ever even both to use this ability. It needs to be thrown out and replaced with something else entirely. Or, remove the orb animation so players don't know that they are being CC'd by Eclipse, lol. That might work.

The Templar class skill line passives need a major update/overhaul to reflect the above suggested changes. I could go into more detail, but I'm not currently logged in to read and list each passive, and they have been discussed quite a bit in the Discord channels and elsewhere.

I could go on forever, but The House is dead. Mobility is Meta.

TL;DR:
#MakeJesusBeamGreatAgain
#MakeBlazingShieldGreatAgain
#MakeBreathOfLifeGreatAgain
#MakeBitingJabsGreatAgain
#MakeRepentanceGreatAgain
#MakeShardsGreatAgain
#MakeTemplarGreatAgain

Everything @ZOS_Wrobel nerfed. Un-nerf it! It is almost as simple as that.
Even if all of the #Nerfs were reverted, Templar would *maybe* be on par in current performance with other classes. The Templar 'class' has been a long-running ESO joke for far too long. Yet I still main it.

The Dawn-Bringer, AD High Elf Magplar (Healer/DPS) & The Moonlit-Knight, EP Imperial Tankplar (Tank), have been my main 2 PvE & PvP characters since ESO launched 4 years & 3 months ago. However, they both pale in comparison to the DPS and Tankiness of Shield-stacking MagSorcs, such as The Dark-Mage, my EP Dark Elf MagSorc.

I miss my OPplar.

This man/female has experince with Templar. Fix all of those.

Main since launch as well, and I'm a total masochist because I've been 2H stam since day one because I love the traveling Cleric/Paladin toons, I can't help it lol I feel you, believe me.

Radburn

Magplar feels outclassed again in Cyrodiil.

1. Our execution is no longer viable - seems to kick in way too late.
2. Lack of decent CC in a meta where it is a required component in a burst rotation
3. Feeling of being perma-snared due to the sheer amount of NBs, sorcs and in general stamina based classes zipping around. I even feel slow while using mist form (consequently it doesn't feel as fast as when I use rapids)
4. Somewhat related to above - Puncturing sweeps is nearly impossible to land now due to the extreme mobility of other classes dancing around you.

I do enjoy the class in PVE, and even in battlegrounds.

cazlonb16_ESO

Since the changes to Empower Dark Flare hits like a wet noodle. Outside of some very niche builds the opportunity costs ( cast time + travel time ) have always been out of sync with the benefits, but now it got utterly ridiculous.

Lord_Eomer

cazlonb16_ESO wrote: »

Since the changes to Empower Dark Flare hits like a wet noodle. Outside of some very niche builds the opportunity costs ( cast time + travel time ) have always been out of sync with the benefits, but now it got utterly ridiculous.

Dark Flare was one of best skill i used on Magplar, thanks to ZOS for simply killing this skill potential.

Now, hardly anyone use this skill due to empower change and cast time

Lum1on

This post is all about magicka templars in PVE.

Everybody is complaining about skills that are aweful and presenting their ideas. I wanted to take a different approach and let everyone know which skills and passives are worth keeping as they are (with little changes, maybe...)

Skills (and passives) that are okay-ish in my opinion:

• Spear shards (Aedric spear): A well differentiated skill for damage dealers and healers.
• Piercing spear
• Spear wall
• Balanced warrior: Yeah, nice to have some passives for stamina and tanks as well, but... It just feels like Templar was the last one developed and the developers were thinking like "I don't think we have given any class a pure weapon damage and spell resistance buffs from passives without any kind of strings attached", and you did that. Like, why specifically weapon damage? Or, more importantly, why spell resistance?
• Sun fire (Dawn's wrath): Vampire's bane doesn't really deal any more damage than Reflective light and that's the only complain I have about this skill. I also don't really understand the minor buff on this because basically everybody uses Inner light and/or potions.
• Backlash: The only problem I have with this ability (I'm sorry, everyone...) is that it's way too cheap compared to what it gives. I understand and like the idea of Templars' skills deal damage and heal allies or themselves, but this skill is ridiculously good.
• Enduring rays: I like the idea of the passive, but because most of the skills (Eclipse, Solar flare and Nova) are utter carbage, this passive is not that good. However, the passive is fine as it is right now, so that's why it's on this list.
• Prism
• Illuminate: Some might require a weapon damage boost as well. But that is already given from Nightblades. And because this is an MMORPG where people supposedly play together.
• Restoring spirit
• Rushed ceremony (Restoring light): I have no issues with this skill or its morphs, but I would make it full radius again because of all the nerfs to this skill and sustain, and introducing Warden (as well as making pretty much all the classes capable to be good healers)
• Healing ritual: I like to think this as the real "oh sh*t!" heal because it's a full radius, instant heal to multiple allies. However, I don't really fully agree with the morphs (or the cost), but at least this is way better than what it used to be.
• Cleansing ritual: Two good morphs for different situations (damage dealers vs. healers, PVE vs. PVP, ...)
• Rune focus: Again, two good morphs for different situations (damage dealers and healers vs. tanks)
• Mending
• Sacred ground: Yes, it's only a minor buff but we also have Mending passive.
• Master ritualist