[Class Rep] Templar Feedback Thread

Tempouille

Endgame PvE wise
1) melee templar are broken. Stamina version just fix repentance and potl. Magicka version upgrade sweeps damage and remove solar barrage cast time. very easy to fix.

2)Templar tanking broken because no stam sustain. May be solved by making staff tanking viable (hint : speed buff while blockking like shield passive) as templar could have enough magicka sustain with the rune. or just.fix repentance...

Easy fixes, no ressource intensive from the devs. no reason to not do it asap.

Lake

For those not in the Discord:



1. CC's - Over 34% of replies said they want a better CC-kit than tehy currently have, after the removal of blazing spear stun
2. Passives - 26% feel that their passives are weak and situational compared to others.

JinMori

Lake wrote: »

For those not in the Discord:



1. CC's - Over 34% of replies said they want a better CC-kit than tehy currently have, after the removal of blazing spear stun
2. Passives - 26% feel that their passives are weak and situational compared to others.

Sustain is a point for all classes, nobody liked morrowind nerfs, also dps is one a concern.

Minno

JinMori wrote: »

Lake wrote: »

For those not in the Discord:



1. CC's - Over 34% of replies said they want a better CC-kit than tehy currently have, after the removal of blazing spear stun
2. Passives - 26% feel that their passives are weak and situational compared to others.

Sustain is a point for all classes, nobody liked morrowind nerfs, also dps is one a concern.

yes but templars, specifically stamplar/tanks/pvp magplars looking for stamina, have it harder. Hence it is the 3rd most important option.

Checkmath

Why did the templar feedback thread made it to the second page on the forum guys???????
The first meeting is over, right. But we reps continue to collect feedback, so please never stop talking about templars

Springt-Über-Zwerge

Checkmath wrote: »

Why did the templar feedback thread made it to the second page on the forum guys???????
The first meeting is over, right. But we reps continue to collect feedback, so please never stop talking about templars

I think it's because every pain point the class has has been discussed by length and we saw in Gina's post that they are aware of our feedback. Until things start to change there is not much to add to the list imo

Checkmath

Springt-Über-Zwerge wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

Why did the templar feedback thread made it to the second page on the forum guys???????
The first meeting is over, right. But we reps continue to collect feedback, so please never stop talking about templars

I think it's because every pain point the class has has been discussed by length and we saw in Gina's post that they are aware of our feedback. Until things start to change there is not much to add to the list imo

There is always to add something
The other threads are still alive too, so i would be glad to get more feedback, even if its more specific from now on.

BohnT

Checkmath wrote: »

Springt-Über-Zwerge wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

Why did the templar feedback thread made it to the second page on the forum guys???????
The first meeting is over, right. But we reps continue to collect feedback, so please never stop talking about templars

I think it's because every pain point the class has has been discussed by length and we saw in Gina's post that they are aware of our feedback. Until things start to change there is not much to add to the list imo

There is always to add something
The other threads are still alive too, so i would be glad to get more feedback, even if its more specific from now on.

I guess Cinbri and Joy_Division already compiled a full list of all critical bugs right?

Checkmath

BohnT wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

Springt-Über-Zwerge wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

Why did the templar feedback thread made it to the second page on the forum guys???????
The first meeting is over, right. But we reps continue to collect feedback, so please never stop talking about templars

I think it's because every pain point the class has has been discussed by length and we saw in Gina's post that they are aware of our feedback. Until things start to change there is not much to add to the list imo

There is always to add something
The other threads are still alive too, so i would be glad to get more feedback, even if its more specific from now on.

I guess Cinbri and Joy_Division already compiled a full list of all critical bugs right?

Cinbri made one during summerset pts, but didnt test many of the bugs from the pts on live. So seeing some of the confirmed would still be good feedback

BohnT

Checkmath wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

Springt-Über-Zwerge wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

Why did the templar feedback thread made it to the second page on the forum guys???????
The first meeting is over, right. But we reps continue to collect feedback, so please never stop talking about templars

I think it's because every pain point the class has has been discussed by length and we saw in Gina's post that they are aware of our feedback. Until things start to change there is not much to add to the list imo

There is always to add something
The other threads are still alive too, so i would be glad to get more feedback, even if its more specific from now on.

I guess Cinbri and Joy_Division already compiled a full list of all critical bugs right?

Cinbri made one during summerset pts, but didnt test many of the bugs from the pts on live. So seeing some of the confirmed would still be good feedback

@Cinbri have you tested the bugs already or can you share a list of the bugs which aren't tested yet?

technohic

So when is the next one? I feel like after saying the pain points once, to do it again before they have a chance to do anything is no longer constructive and just becomes bitching

Tanis-Stormbinder

Increase the damage to puncturing sweeps and jesus Beam
Rework outdated passives

Cinbri

BohnT wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

Springt-Über-Zwerge wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

Why did the templar feedback thread made it to the second page on the forum guys???????
The first meeting is over, right. But we reps continue to collect feedback, so please never stop talking about templars

I think it's because every pain point the class has has been discussed by length and we saw in Gina's post that they are aware of our feedback. Until things start to change there is not much to add to the list imo

There is always to add something
The other threads are still alive too, so i would be glad to get more feedback, even if its more specific from now on.

I guess Cinbri and Joy_Division already compiled a full list of all critical bugs right?

Cinbri made one during summerset pts, but didnt test many of the bugs from the pts on live. So seeing some of the confirmed would still be good feedback

@Cinbri have you tested the bugs already or can you share a list of the bugs which aren't tested yet?

Will post it today or tomorrow. thx to @Elsterchen help with detailed report regarding some of it. Look like 90% of bugs reported weren't fixed or simply made as "feature" of class.

Minno

Checkmath wrote: »

Springt-Über-Zwerge wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

Why did the templar feedback thread made it to the second page on the forum guys???????
The first meeting is over, right. But we reps continue to collect feedback, so please never stop talking about templars

I think it's because every pain point the class has has been discussed by length and we saw in Gina's post that they are aware of our feedback. Until things start to change there is not much to add to the list imo

There is always to add something
The other threads are still alive too, so i would be glad to get more feedback, even if its more specific from now on.

We still have to test the bugs!

Someone already tested Red Diamond now procs off jabs. So you Imperial templars rejoice!

Checkmath

Minno wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

Springt-Über-Zwerge wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

Why did the templar feedback thread made it to the second page on the forum guys???????
The first meeting is over, right. But we reps continue to collect feedback, so please never stop talking about templars

I think it's because every pain point the class has has been discussed by length and we saw in Gina's post that they are aware of our feedback. Until things start to change there is not much to add to the list imo

There is always to add something
The other threads are still alive too, so i would be glad to get more feedback, even if its more specific from now on.

We still have to test the bugs!

Someone already tested Red Diamond now procs off jabs. So you Imperial templars rejoice!

My stamplar is imperial since months now and i think red diamond used to proc from jabs, at least it used to when i created my stamplar.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

Tanis-Stormbinder wrote: »

Increase the damage to puncturing sweeps and jesus Beam
Rework outdated passives

@Joy_Division and @Checkmath and I have been talking about things for a few days and, your point made me chuckle a bit.

In a nutshell those skills can still be very powerful but you have to give up a ton of things to pump enough juice into those skills so that they still are effective. To paraphrase Joy “if you have to sacrifice everything in order to have a skill be useful, the skill is broken.”

I had not really considered that perspective.

Narvuntien

I think of all the classes (from reading the class feedback threads) I think Templar players seem to be a lot more in agreeance on what the problems are.

Not sure if that means if the problems are more obvious or if we are just more in agreeable over here in templar land.

Minno

Checkmath wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

Springt-Über-Zwerge wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

Why did the templar feedback thread made it to the second page on the forum guys???????
The first meeting is over, right. But we reps continue to collect feedback, so please never stop talking about templars

I think it's because every pain point the class has has been discussed by length and we saw in Gina's post that they are aware of our feedback. Until things start to change there is not much to add to the list imo

There is always to add something
The other threads are still alive too, so i would be glad to get more feedback, even if its more specific from now on.

We still have to test the bugs!

Someone already tested Red Diamond now procs off jabs. So you Imperial templars rejoice!

My stamplar is imperial since months now and i think red diamond used to proc from jabs, at least it used to when i created my stamplar.

and for the repentance not working on engine guardian, I don't think it works anymore. There isnt a body left over to repen.
I also tried shadowrend but it too doesnt leave a corpse on cooldown.

I will need to test with another player so they can actually kill the robot; but something tells me it won't stay for long on the floor to make use of repentance.

Joy_Division

Minno wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

Springt-Über-Zwerge wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

Why did the templar feedback thread made it to the second page on the forum guys???????
The first meeting is over, right. But we reps continue to collect feedback, so please never stop talking about templars

I think it's because every pain point the class has has been discussed by length and we saw in Gina's post that they are aware of our feedback. Until things start to change there is not much to add to the list imo

There is always to add something
The other threads are still alive too, so i would be glad to get more feedback, even if its more specific from now on.

We still have to test the bugs!

Someone already tested Red Diamond now procs off jabs. So you Imperial templars rejoice!

My stamplar is imperial since months now and i think red diamond used to proc from jabs, at least it used to when i created my stamplar.

and for the repentance not working on engine guardian, I don't think it works anymore. There isnt a body left over to repen.
I also tried shadowrend but it too doesnt leave a corpse on cooldown.

I will need to test with another player so they can actually kill the robot; but something tells me it won't stay for long on the floor to make use of repentance.

Unfortunately that is intended. ZoS doesn't want summons to become corpses.

Elsterchen

@Cinbri ty for tagging me, and sorry for beeing so ... absent ... RL is keeping me busy atm.
Yet again, I like to push a more public "test-list". Without scripting these tests take time and I feel it would be more efficient to share tasks.

Results (pics, shards, tables) can be send by PM to Cinbri and released in a summary.

oh yeah... and a small guide on how to make gifs with an old maschine that doesn't allow for much more workpower, would be exellent, I seem to be too stoopid for that.

Solariken

Joy_Division wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

Springt-Über-Zwerge wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

Why did the templar feedback thread made it to the second page on the forum guys???????
The first meeting is over, right. But we reps continue to collect feedback, so please never stop talking about templars

I think it's because every pain point the class has has been discussed by length and we saw in Gina's post that they are aware of our feedback. Until things start to change there is not much to add to the list imo

There is always to add something
The other threads are still alive too, so i would be glad to get more feedback, even if its more specific from now on.

We still have to test the bugs!

Someone already tested Red Diamond now procs off jabs. So you Imperial templars rejoice!

My stamplar is imperial since months now and i think red diamond used to proc from jabs, at least it used to when i created my stamplar.

and for the repentance not working on engine guardian, I don't think it works anymore. There isnt a body left over to repen.
I also tried shadowrend but it too doesnt leave a corpse on cooldown.

I will need to test with another player so they can actually kill the robot; but something tells me it won't stay for long on the floor to make use of repentance.

Unfortunately that is intended. ZoS doesn't want summons to become corpses.

Yeah it is but what huge buzzkill that change was... They are constantly ripping the fun out of things.

If people can use things like engine Guardian for free LOS/meatshield then there's no reason why Templars shouldn't be able to repent the bodies. At least give a window of like 3 seconds...

kojou

1. Sustain, more specifically repentance being the only sustain tool for Stamplar.
2. Weak Ultimates

Nolic1

I see 2 things really bad on the Templar sustain and some of the passives as being major pain points.

Sustain on the class is just bad and feel with some changes could be improved.

Restoring Aura: This skill should get a small cost added to it maybe 1200 to 1500 and not is offers the aura when slotted to the whole group as in the 10% stam, magand health recovery but when cast applies minor life steal to enemy's.

Radiant Aura: This morph now applies magicka steal and health steal in a 10 meter radius and major sorcery plus the normal aura when slotted.

Repentance: This morph now applies a new thing called stamina steal in a 10 meter radius along with life steal and major brutality plus the normal aura when slotted.

This gives the skill more functional use for group play and give both mag and stam builds plus tank and healers something to use to help the group out. The major sorcery and brutality only apply to the character and if they gave it a 18 sec cool down or timer on the casted effects it would not be game breaking or changing the stamina steall could also be applied to other skills for weapons a such for player sustain even to the blood alter or resto staff skills.

As to the passive issue I think if they change the ones that effect only certain skills to give something to the classes overall damage output in some way would help fix the templar by a greater margin then other things suggested here. But these are the thoughts on one player. So take it how it is.

Drdeath20

Nolic1 wrote: »

I see 2 things really bad on the Templar sustain and some of the passives as being major pain points.

Sustain on the class is just bad and feel with some changes could be improved.

Restoring Aura: This skill should get a small cost added to it maybe 1200 to 1500 and not is offers the aura when slotted to the whole group as in the 10% stam, magand health recovery but when cast applies minor life steal to enemy's.

Radiant Aura: This morph now applies magicka steal and health steal in a 10 meter radius and major sorcery plus the normal aura when slotted.

Repentance: This morph now applies a new thing called stamina steal in a 10 meter radius along with life steal and major brutality plus the normal aura when slotted.

This gives the skill more functional use for group play and give both mag and stam builds plus tank and healers something to use to help the group out. The major sorcery and brutality only apply to the character and if they gave it a 18 sec cool down or timer on the casted effects it would not be game breaking or changing the stamina steall could also be applied to other skills for weapons a such for player sustain even to the blood alter or resto staff skills.

As to the passive issue I think if they change the ones that effect only certain skills to give something to the classes overall damage output in some way would help fix the templar by a greater margin then other things suggested here. But these are the thoughts on one player. So take it how it is.

Id love that. Since summerset things like major sorcery/brutality have become very easy to have or build around. I dont see these changes making any of those skills OP

tamrielwinner

i like and use empowering sweep in pvp. i know most people want it to be a magicka version of crescent sweep/dawnbreaker, but it really does help magicka templars survive and it would be nice to maintain that part of it if anything were to happen to it. the low cost of this 360 degree ult is handy.

i disagree on the root comments. does every class need a root? it would be powerful. however, i've been down that road in mmos and it sucks when everyone is given the same stuff.

Koensol

Absolute nr. 1:
No means of defense other than hold block and then cleanse, bol spam. It is very hard to transition from defense to offense.

Number 2:
Our class toolkit isn't very suited for solo play. We have no viable stun when in a fight. Toppling charge only works at range. We have to use mages guild for major sorcery and vampire in order to get mobility and snare immunity to be viable in solo pvp. Vampire on a templar... that just feels so ***...

Number 3 just because I can:
Sustaining is an absolute chore and forces you into argonian for the potion passive.

Solariken

tamrielwinner wrote: »

i like and use empowering sweep in pvp. i know most people want it to be a magicka version of crescent sweep/dawnbreaker, but it really does help magicka templars survive and it would be nice to maintain that part of it if anything were to happen to it. the low cost of this 360 degree ult is handy.

It either needs to focus on damage, utility, or mitigation. Right now it just does a tiny bit of everything and while it looks cool, it's not very good at anything.

The mitigation is dwarfed by SnB/resto ults, the damage is dwarfed by any other ult, and the utility is limited to slotted passives that you can get with other Aedric Spear skills.

Oh, and it misses 90% of the time even at point blank...

Biro123

Minno wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

Lake wrote: »

For those not in the Discord:



1. CC's - Over 34% of replies said they want a better CC-kit than tehy currently have, after the removal of blazing spear stun
2. Passives - 26% feel that their passives are weak and situational compared to others.

Sustain is a point for all classes, nobody liked morrowind nerfs, also dps is one a concern.

yes but templars, specifically stamplar/tanks/pvp magplars looking for stamina, have it harder. Hence it is the 3rd most important option.

/agree.

Of all the classes I have at lvl 50 stam/mag blade, stam/mag sorc, I find stamplar the hardest on sustain. The result being (from a PVP perspective) having to give up soo much damage or survivability (compared to other classes) to be able to sustain.

BohnT

If we want to keep the templar house we have to strengthen it, right now it feels like you weaken yourself when trying to defend your house rather than just give it up.

The templar house mainly consists of 2 skills.
Rune and purge, however a huge problem is that those skills don't give exceptional good buffs for limiting your movement capability.

What you get fro staying in the templars house:
(Minor protection, minor vitality)/ (480 magregen) + (a hot)/ (bigger hot, ground dot) + minor mending + resistance buffs+ snare for enemies

The issue is this is what other classes get without having their movement restricted which makes the templar house lackluster.


There need to be distinct incentives that motivates to use the house which don't make the templar unkillable in his house but gives them an advantage when they make good use of their house.

Things like: root immunity while inside of your purge, this still Limits movement but inside of your house you can walk around like you want to.

Cumultative buffs to one of the following: healing, reduction of negative effects, damage, ... the longer you are inside of your rune.

Further, more skills which fit and create a viable templar house playstyle would be decent.


This is just a post about the house, Templar has more issues that have to be touched aswell

Solariken

Don't forget that there is a large segment of the Templar population that doesn't want to further develop the house philosophy. I am one of those.

I would rather we get some mobility and control tools.

I still want a root + damage on Focus.

I still think they screwed up big time with clap heal change - Minor Expedition should have been put into Radiant Aura. Maybe add Major or Minor Evasion to RA too (as much as I hate passive dodge).

I still want a full root/snare purge with 4 sec of immunity on Ritual of Retribution and the dmg/heal ticks changed to 1 second intervals. I would be ok with it not cleansing any additional effects or maybe only 1.

Those few things would absolutely return Templar fun to its former glory.