[Class Rep] Nightblade Feedback Thread

Marginis

Top pain point:

Not having the ability to go invisible without abandoning an essential tank tool. I would like to be able to go invisible as a tank, to break taunt when needed, as an escape tool, for sneaky repositioning, for use out-of-combat when thieving or murdering NPCs - it's just such an excellent utility to have, and is the reason I chose Nightblade for my main 8 years ago. I just wish I could use it and also be a tank.

Second top pain point:

Having class abilities that are strictly worse than abilities that anyone can have. I can't stand the fact that several of my abilities are completely dead as a NB. Instead of some really interesting CC, for example, NBs get Mass Hysteria, the morph of Aspect of Terror. This fears up to 6 targets in an AOE. Turn Evil, the morph of Circle of Protection, for Fighter's Guild, which all classes have access to, fears ALL targets in an AOE, AND also grants minor protection, AND also grants minor endurance. The NB-specific skill is straight worse.

Fixing those is a start to making NB not the worst class in the game.

Also, feel free to nerf Nightblade PVP gankers. People complain about them all the time and that just ends up with nerfs to every other Nightblade. I much prefer a class that can be used in all sorts of ways, to a class that needs to be built as a PVP burst damage dealer otherwise it sucks.

rbfrgsp

Marginis wrote: »

Also, feel free to nerf Nightblade PVP gankers. People complain about them all the time and that just ends up with nerfs to every other Nightblade. I much prefer a class that can be used in all sorts of ways, to a class that needs to be built as a PVP burst damage dealer otherwise it sucks.

NB PvP burst damage build is in a fairly nice spot balance-wise. The way vampirism synergies with NB is the real issue. All of the PvP gankblades who irritate people powergame into vampirism. If they made the vamp damage buff apply only to vampirism skill line skills, I don't think many people would moan about NB in PvP at all.

exeeter702

RedFireDisco wrote: »

Ranged magblades don't touch refreshing path it's trash. If you're not running wild hunt or swift jewelry, you're dead.

This is bar none, one of the stronger tools for magblade healers and brawler builds in pvp. This change is welcome after the healthy offering sustain nerf last patch. Because its not applicable to a specfic build type of magblade does not make it trash.

Sun7dance

rbfrgsp wrote: »

Marginis wrote: »

Also, feel free to nerf Nightblade PVP gankers. People complain about them all the time and that just ends up with nerfs to every other Nightblade. I much prefer a class that can be used in all sorts of ways, to a class that needs to be built as a PVP burst damage dealer otherwise it sucks.

NB PvP burst damage build is in a fairly nice spot balance-wise. The way vampirism synergies with NB is the real issue. All of the PvP gankblades who irritate people powergame into vampirism. If they made the vamp damage buff apply only to vampirism skill line skills, I don't think many people would moan about NB in PvP at all.

Nightblade biggest problem is burst at the same time. Yes, our spammable is strong and the spectral bow too, but you can't have both hit at the same time.

So many Nightblades run Caluurion to solve this problem and that seems very unfair, because Nightblades usually have the first attack.
Maybe that's the reason, why we get no buffs!

But there must be a better solution!

Nerf the damn caluurion before you let an entire class fall into oblivion!
Nightblades in PvP should be more than reduced to proc sets!

RedFireDisco

exeeter702 wrote: »

RedFireDisco wrote: »

Ranged magblades don't touch refreshing path it's trash. If you're not running wild hunt or swift jewelry, you're dead.

This is bar none, one of the stronger tools for magblade healers and brawler builds in pvp. This change is welcome after the healthy offering sustain nerf last patch. Because its not applicable to a specific build type of magblade does not make it trash.

It is trash for ranged magblades, you know, the 95% of ones online. Yes, it's an okay skill for a healer nightblade (albeit costly and odd) in the same way cauterize is for a dragonknight healer or any 1% morph. Why would a stand-your-ground brawler need the speed and why would someone escaping need a 12 second dot heal.

exeeter702

RedFireDisco wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

RedFireDisco wrote: »

Ranged magblades don't touch refreshing path it's trash. If you're not running wild hunt or swift jewelry, you're dead.

This is bar none, one of the stronger tools for magblade healers and brawler builds in pvp. This change is welcome after the healthy offering sustain nerf last patch. Because its not applicable to a specific build type of magblade does not make it trash.

It is trash for ranged magblades, you know, the 95% of ones online. Yes, it's an okay skill for a healer nightblade (albeit costly and odd) in the same way cauterize is for a dragonknight healer or any 1% morph. Why would a stand-your-ground brawler need the speed and why would someone escaping need a 12 second dot heal.

Why are you lumping two aspects that apply to different scenarios into one use case? Refreshing paths tooltip is actually quite strong in terms of healing throughput. Its primary function is that of an attrition based skill, the one aspect that has defined every magblade spec since the beginning of this games existence. The application range of the skill is also not as narrow as its radius shows, since its explicitly designed for its effect to linger. So long as you are fighting in the vicinity, the uptime on the hot (and now the other two sustain buffs that are not exactly common) is actually much longer. Major expedition assists in keeping the uptime since you are moving around its radius in BGs and small scale endeavors. This also serves as the most practical and bang for buck method of keeping up shadow barrier passive for healers (dark cloak is more expensive and reactionary, image is not frequently recasted for obv reasons, concealed is not used on magblade healers).

Refreshing path is not a damage over time heal anymore so im not sure what you mean by that, and the duration is far longer than 12 seconds. And if you are for some reason using path to help someone escape, refreshing paths hot on top regen is quite strong enough to help them if they manage to gain los if you dont want to spend the magicka on an offering cast. Your problem is assuming that if the expedition isnt applicable at any time of the skills use, its wasted, which is silly. Even without it, the power budget for the skill with the hot, newly added minor buffs and its contribution to both shadow barrier uptime and dark cloak potency via increased heath for shadow skill slotting, it absolutely earns its place on your bar.

You dismiss it because you have no experience using the skill on a build that it is intended to be used on. And you presume the only things worth acknowledging are those that only apply to your viewpoint of what the majorty of players are playing as on magblade.

Marginis

rbfrgsp wrote: »

Marginis wrote: »

Also, feel free to nerf Nightblade PVP gankers. People complain about them all the time and that just ends up with nerfs to every other Nightblade. I much prefer a class that can be used in all sorts of ways, to a class that needs to be built as a PVP burst damage dealer otherwise it sucks.

NB PvP burst damage build is in a fairly nice spot balance-wise. The way vampirism synergies with NB is the real issue. All of the PvP gankblades who irritate people powergame into vampirism. If they made the vamp damage buff apply only to vampirism skill line skills, I don't think many people would moan about NB in PvP at all.

Hey, whatever nerfs gankblades without hurting every other Nightblade in the process has my blessing. I mean, not that I necessarily think gankers need nerfing - it's just that they seem to be the only real NB archetype that causes players to moan about NBs and how they should be nerfed, when really it's just gankers that are the problem, and not NBs specifically.

RedFireDisco

exeeter702 wrote: »

RedFireDisco wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

RedFireDisco wrote: »

You dismiss it because you have no experience using the skill on a build that it is intended to be used on. And you presume the only things worth acknowledging are those that only apply to your viewpoint of what the majorty of players are playing as on magblade.

I'm happy for the outlier NB's to get a buff to this skill. My point stands that for the VAST majority of magblades who have to sacrifice damage for survivability, speed, and sustain, again a patch comes by that hurts, not helps and this little boon for what is a statistically insignificant proportion of the NB player base is simply not enough compared to the massive buffs other classes got.

I dismiss the skill for Mag & Stam NB's who play ranged or melee based on it's incompatibility with PVP. Again, happy for PVE'rs getting a buff to their skill.

Melzo

[Class Rep] for Necromancers exists??? If not, I'll write to NB. I still don't like them. Generally. Where are the reviews of necromancers?? I started riveting reports that this class has little support. Decrease the synergy cooldown or change the harmony trait to not make this class a glass cannon. For example, so that it increases synergy by 10 percent instead of 20 but reduces synergy cooldown by 3 seconds. This class has stopped fighting in ranged combat. You are either melee or a bomber. In general, I noticed such a trend that the sorc and nb are the only classes that fight in ranged combat. And 5 out of 6 classes are capable of this... And what went wrong?? Starting with the Summer 2021 Update, Warden are melee-fighting like the Necromancer. the only difference is that the necromancer is more popular as a bomber. How to make a ranger out of him, if he does not have a predisposition for this.

VaxtinTheWolf

@Melzo

Here, I setup one for you. Maybe it wont be closed down immediately and you can get a tiny bit of value out of it.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/604011/unofficial-necromancer-feedback-thread/p1?new=1

Generally If you don't find a thread that has had activity in the past 4-5 months, with some exceptions, they seem to encourage you to create your own.

Foxtrot39

Still baffled they havent touched aspect of terror and consumming darkness in a "we look into underused skill/morph to buff" combat update those two sucked for years on end, prime example of pure irony on their behalf

malistorr

Nightblades (at least in Ravenwatch no CP/proc) is trash. Damage from all class skills is very low. Cloak ability is way too short and uses too many resources. Damage just all around is really bad compared to almost all other classes. Healing is really bad as well. I stopped playing the class altogether because it's so horribly behind is just about any area vs. the strong classes. DK, Templar, and even Sorc are so much better in every way.

Thecompton73

Considering how easy it is to be instantly revealed by abilities or POTs and how often the ability just straight fails to work upon casting (who knows why but sometimes it fails 2-3 casts in a row while eating all my magic) I feel like Shadowy Disguise should return at least 50% of the resource cost if the invisibility doesn't last the full three seconds.
It's the NB survival tool, imagine if survival tools on other classes like healing or blocking completely failed to heal or to reduce damage half the time yet still cost the full resources on each attempt.

RedFireDisco

Thecompton73 wrote: »

Considering how easy it is to be instantly revealed by abilities or POTs and how often the ability just straight fails to work upon casting (who knows why but sometimes it fails 2-3 casts in a row while eating all my magic) I feel like Shadowy Disguise should return at least 50% of the resource cost if the invisibility doesn't last the full three seconds.
It's the NB survival tool, imagine if survival tools on other classes like healing or blocking completely failed to heal or to reduce damage half the time yet still cost the full resources on each attempt.

Exactly. Do you think this would happen if they made Sorc's shield 3 seconds in length and sometimes it didn't fire 2-3 times out of 10?

The uproar in the forum would be heretofore unheard of.

I'm not playing again or renewing my membership until they fix it. It's the NB's seminal ability and it doesn't work.

Can't even fight a jabby jabber as there's no counter because shade won't fire either.

MidniteOwl1913

Nightblades, as they are now, are pretty much useless. I play a DK now.

VaxtinTheWolf

I rarely interact with PvP but- What if Mark Target was a combo skill with the Assassin's Will proc that made it unavoidable. It wouldn't matter if it was so slow then, because if your target is marked, it's your 'killshot'.

deadtek

assassin

ultimate skill : fatal blow evolution harvest of souls : harvest of souls doesn't apply any more major desecration and doesn't give ultimates when you kill enemies but gives major heroism for 6 seconds, this ultimates can be used at distance 28 meters

murderous rampage and its morphs : the first spectral arc still costs half of the magic or vigor cost of the skill but the 2nd arc now costs 2700 of magic or vigor and resets the duration of the skill (so you don't have to refresh the skill all the time)

shadow

ultimate devouring darkness and its evolution : increase the radius from 5 meter to 7 meter
evolution blade veil: increase the damage of 20%.

shadow path evolution :twisted path renamed by shadow zone: this skill is no more a cone but a circle of 7 meters radius and has a range of 28 meters and this skill lasts 12 seconds instead of 11,5 seconds. (I was also thinking of adding a synergy to this skill but I'll see later) (this change would be nice to make the nightblade more distant)

master_vanargand

Is "update34" a Nightblade's buff?
No, even if buff a skill that no one uses, no one will use it.
Nightblade is in despair.

[My idea]
PvP
Add Major Savagery and Prophecy to "Grim Focus".
Nightblade attaches great importance to Critical and requires major barbarians and prophecies in class skills.

PvE
Nightblade is the lowest DPS.
Nightblade has no useful synergies and AoE is weak.
Nightblade specializes in single damage, but is below average DPS of class.
So need change the Passive Skills "Pressure Points" to 3% (657).
This is the simplest idea to raise DPS.

Lykeion

In short, I think Aspect of Terror's design philosophy is quite outdated, and it needs a rework asap. As the skill description shows, Aspect of Terror and Turn Evil are similar in cast time, target, radius, and function. They both can make enemies feared, yet Turn Evil gives so many other buffs for 20s when Aspect of Terror gives nothing more. And AT even has a number cap. I can't remember all the skills accurately but AT might be the only skill that has a hard number cap stated in the skill description now.

It is unreasonable that a class skill is inferior to a common skill in nearly all ways. ZOS needs to give Aspect of Terror (or at least Mass Hysteria) a rework.

FangOfTheTwoMoons

Brawler Blade feels like it's in a real bad place to be honest.

We have no pressure, and our burst is predictable and easy to dodge.

A Templars Purifying Light can hit me for 9k then follow up with a 6k sweep (I'm not squishy). Mag DK can burst with a 8k whip after a leap. Both are easy things to do. Not to mention the amount of pressure they apply just by existing.

Now compare that to a bow proc which hits for similar damage. I have to get 5 light attacks in then lob it. You can hear that and my incap coming from a mile away. Roughly the same amount of work to set up as the other 2 examples (they just gotta use skills to buff up their burst not light attack weave). Incap and bow proc might be a little stronger but that doesn't matter when I can't hit them over half the time.

This isn't me bashing Templars and DKs, just some thoughts I've been having since playing again after a hiatus.

exeeter702

Lykeion wrote: »

In short, I think Aspect of Terror's design philosophy is quite outdated, and it needs a rework asap. As the skill description shows, Aspect of Terror and Turn Evil are similar in cast time, target, radius, and function. They both can make enemies feared, yet Turn Evil gives so many other buffs for 20s when Aspect of Terror gives nothing more. And AT even has a number cap. I can't remember all the skills accurately but AT might be the only skill that has a hard number cap stated in the skill description now.

It is unreasonable that a class skill is inferior to a common skill in nearly all ways. ZOS needs to give Aspect of Terror (or at least Mass Hysteria) a rework.

So let's look at what it has lost over the years

Minor maim (moved to shade)
Snare
Fears targets run away
Recipient target limit.

I think it got hit in cost as some point but I dont remember honestly.

The skill just doesnt feel appropriately budgeted in the current version of ESO. Give it a bit more range, give it the run way when feared effect and snare back OR instead maybe attatch one of the more uncommon minor debuffs (timidity, cowardice, brittle) to targets that are effected by the fear.

VaxtinTheWolf

Stationary fear is the change that made this skill even slightly viable for a PvE tank because it kept enemies still rather than spreading them out, which is counter productive to what you want in that situation. Also, I think there was some issues with it forcing people/mobs to clip into the ground or walls sometimes.

deathsia

I personally suggest a COMPLETE OVERHAUL of the class as a whole.

The Nightblade was designed as a stealth class but I count maybe 4 skills tops that use your stealth as a modifier and even less skills that allow you to enter stealth easily.

Rework the class so that its whole focus is on stealth, with skills and passives that bolster your stealth abilities. NB has no need for a pseudo healer skill line as its NOT A HEALER class nor does it need a pseudo tank class.

My suggestions for skill line ideas are thus:

Assassination: All skills and passives in this skill line would work towards coming out of stealth to deal as much dmg as possible in burst damage then be able to quickly reenter stealth again.

Entrapment: This skill line would focus on supporting debuffs to the enemy while giving one or two skills for some minor burst damage with stealth as less of a focus but still present in its passives.

Ninjutsu: This skill line would be a hard core spell caster whose spells would enfeeble, deal damage over time, and some burst damage on large groups of enemies. Its passives would enhance these spells making it a powerful damage dealer and enfeebler with no regard for stealth.

rbfrgsp

deathsia wrote: »

Rework the class so that its whole focus is on stealth, with skills and passives that bolster your stealth abilities. NB has no need for a pseudo healer skill line as its NOT A HEALER class nor does it need a pseudo tank class.

This shows poor understanding of classic RPG classes, and how ESO has attempted to discover a way to play all of them with the few available classes in the game.

Thematically, NB is a perfect evade tank or a bloodmage. Tanking by attracting aggro and then evading rather absorbing damage should be a perfect NB tank build. I always refer to the Fixer class in Anarchy Online with their unique grid armour: played right, virtually all incoming damage misses you. But on the times you do get hit, you get hit HARD, as if you've no armour at all. That's how a NB tank should play.

NB healer should be blood mage. Sacrifice your own health to heal others; inflict damage on enemies to heal yourself.

Marginis

deathsia wrote: »

I personally suggest a COMPLETE OVERHAUL of the class as a whole.

The Nightblade was designed as a stealth class but I count maybe 4 skills tops that use your stealth as a modifier and even less skills that allow you to enter stealth easily.

Rework the class so that its whole focus is on stealth, with skills and passives that bolster your stealth abilities. NB has no need for a pseudo healer skill line as its NOT A HEALER class nor does it need a pseudo tank class.

My suggestions for skill line ideas are thus:

Assassination: All skills and passives in this skill line would work towards coming out of stealth to deal as much dmg as possible in burst damage then be able to quickly reenter stealth again.

Entrapment: This skill line would focus on supporting debuffs to the enemy while giving one or two skills for some minor burst damage with stealth as less of a focus but still present in its passives.

Ninjutsu: This skill line would be a hard core spell caster whose spells would enfeeble, deal damage over time, and some burst damage on large groups of enemies. Its passives would enhance these spells making it a powerful damage dealer and enfeebler with no regard for stealth.

So... the other classes get to be good at everything while NB loses all ability to tank and heal? Pigeonholing NB even more seems like the wrong direction to go, in my opinion.

DrNukenstein

-Put sorc/brut on siphoning strikes
-Rework Bow proc to be like snipe but with a boosted instant cast condition and useable with any weapon
-Give the fear something unique, like vulnerability or even brittle
-Make stamina execute scale from 50% health. Make mag execute do bonus damage to stunned or rooted targets.
-Rework Shadow tree ult completely. It would be really cool if it was up to 10 seconds of invisibility that broke on doing damage but returned you to stealth a second or two later
-remove ambush cast time
-fix the lock out on incap at 120 when you have vampirism
-tie the cloak crit to the next damage skill used instead of next attack/skill

rbfrgsp

DrNukenstein wrote: »

-Put sorc/brut on siphoning strikes
-Rework Bow proc to be like snipe but with a boosted instant cast condition and useable with any weapon
-Give the fear something unique, like vulnerability or even brittle

Yes to these. I always have the idea of the Grim Focus skill as a sort of ranged spectral summoning attack for magic, and a dim mak/death touch skill for stam.

The magic morph could remain largely as it is. I'd love it if the stam morph was changed to only build stacks on martial melee damage, but to then have zero travel time and a melee range. Sort of the "You're already Dead" burst damage in Fist of the North Star.

DrNukenstein wrote: »

-Make stamina execute scale from 50% health. Make mag execute do bonus damage to stunned or rooted targets.

This would constitute a massive nerf that is not required because the existing execute damage does not scale. So you are currently getting the scaled at 1% health damage output right from the get go at 25%. Killers Blade is strong but nobody complains or considers it OP because it has miniscule range and requires some learning to use properly. In my opinion it's one of the few absolutely perfect skills in the class tree in terms of requirements to rewards.

Foxtrot39

DrNukenstein wrote: »

-Rework Bow proc to be like snipe but with a boosted instant cast condition and useable with any weapon

You summon a spectral bow to shoot it regardless of equiped weapon already

DrNukenstein

Foxtrot39 wrote: »

DrNukenstein wrote: »

-Rework Bow proc to be like snipe but with a boosted instant cast condition and useable with any weapon

You summon a spectral bow to shoot it regardless of equiped weapon already

Exactly, literally make it snipe with the same WD/SD coefficient but with whatever weapon passives you prefer. Then give it a boosted proc condition.

DrNukenstein

DrNukenstein wrote: »

-Make stamina execute scale from 50% health. Make mag execute do bonus damage to stunned or rooted targets.

This would constitute a massive nerf that is not required because the existing execute damage does not scale. So you are currently getting the scaled at 1% health damage output right from the get go at 25%. Killers Blade is strong but nobody complains or considers it OP because it has miniscule range and requires some learning to use properly. In my opinion it's one of the few absolutely perfect skills in the class tree in terms of requirements to rewards.[/quote]

People don't know how good KB is when you weave it with heavies on a target you just set off balance, but some kind of two tier scaling tow make it do about as much damage as a spammable between 50 and 25% health would make it more competitive with the 2h execute.

Impale is called impale and so rarely catches a target at 25% health due to travel time. But if it did bonus damage to CC'd targets that'd make it unique, fitting to the name, and more useful as long as the target can be cc'd or *edit* set off balance. Kind of like dk whip, but edgier.

In all cases it should do the same amount of damage to a target below 25% health, just with more usefulness outside of that tight threshold